- They are loud

- They are expensive

- The keys are massive and ugly

- Massive travel time (So slow to type on)

Sure they are a bit more customizable, but is that really worth all the drawbacks? Especially the worse typing, which is the main point of a keyboard.

If you are a mechanical keyboard fanatic, and my comment angered you, please know that was not my intention. I really don't see the appeal, and I haven't been able to find any advantages (mentioned online or by asking friends that have them). I would love it if someone could explain to me what the actual advantages are, and/or why I am wrong on any of the points I mentioned.

- They are loud

They can be loud, depending on the switches you get. However, some people feel that they benefit from it. The loud clicks are satisfying in some way. Maybe it's an ASMR thing for some people. For me, the sound feels like feedback.

- They are expensive

They can be. But so can regular keyboards. My first mechanical was like $40.

- The keys are massive and ugly

Unless you put low profile switches on your keyboard

- Massive travel time (So slow to type on)

Unless you put fast switches on your keyboard. The clickiest keys tend to be the slowest, but I don't type more than 80 words per minute anyway, and when I'm coding a lot less than that. But you can definitely get faster switches.

Here's another reason: it's fun. It's just fun. Sure maybe it's just cosplaying as a hacker, but it's still fun.

And most mechanicals can be remapped really easily, to allow custom workflows. Or layers. What I may potentially lose in words per minute, I gain by creating an intuitive key map that lets me reach the keys that I actually need day to day.

It’s worth noting that for folks who don’t know proper typing technique (which is probably nearly everybody under the age of 40, as nobody really teaches it any more, at least in the countries where I’ve lived) it almost doesn’t matter what sort of mechanical switch you’re using, in terms of noise.

In my experience, the majority of mechanical keyboard noise for most folks doesn’t actually come from the switches at all; it comes from the keys noisily bottoming out on each keystroke.

My theory is that most folks these days learned to type on membrane keyboards where you have to bottom out the keys (often with quite a lot of force, if the keyboard is old), or else on a laptop’s scissor switches where you can’t avoid bottoming out due to the extremely short throw, and so everyone’s just typing with much more force than necessary and driving the keys all the way down to the backplate on every press because that’s what they had to do with the keyboards they learned on.

Which of course makes typing far less pleasant, and also much noisier! The complaints are totally understandable, from that perspective.

This also links into the “Massive travel time” comment; most folks push the keys much too far down while typing on mechanical keyboards!

Cherry MX Blue switches (as one example) actuate at 2mm, which is almost exactly the same distance as most (non-Apple) laptop scissor switches. The only reason that a mechanical keyboard would have “massive travel time” compared to a laptop keyboard is if you’re needlessly pushing the keys all the way down, when you actually only need a gentle tap on them.

I hate this. It's uncomfortable. If you aren't old enough to have used a good laptop before laptops could be thinner than two inches, you can think of modern laptop keyboards as the 21st century equivalent of a girdle. You give up a certain amount of comfort, but hey, at least you look sexy.

I guess we won't have comfortable laptop keyboards again until the electronics and battery are small enough to fit entirely under the palm rests and trackpad.

My wife does a lot of sewing and garment making. She has convinced me that a properly designed and fitted girdle is actually a net-benefit for people. The trouble is proper fit is hard at a mass scale, which is why women transitioned to bras, which also have notorious fit issues, but are at least manageable when mass produced.

I miss old laptop input devices, wish someone still made a laptop with a built in trackball too!

I personally would love a return to keyboards at the front edge of the laptop, with a side mounted trackball; but I doubt I'll see that.

Manual typewriters, though, had a /huge/ amount of travel, and since the travel provides the force to strike the type on to the paper, you really had to hammer on them.

Came here to say the same thing. But then I was stuck on keyboards that required bottoming out for many years. It's been a re-learning process to not bottom out on my fairly keychron k2. But, wow so pleasant to use.

This is interesting!. I learn typing in a VERY old mechanical typewriter, then in an electronic one, then in a computer keyboard.

You need to hammer the keys in the old typewriter, like hitting with all the force in the world. But in the electronic it was so soft! Then the computers come and was like in the middle.

I made my own mechanical keyboard, and looking at it, I bottom up around the "middle", not going full force. Also, I HEAR if I hitting it too hard, so I can "lower" the sound mid-tipyng! Cool to have feedback!

There were two IBM Selectrics in the back of the room, and everything else was manual. There was a schedule for the lucky two.

I think we had more than one Apple ][ for after-school signup at that point, but I'm not sure.

So I learned the traditional way with an egg timer and a spiral-bound exercise book on a stand. Curled fingers. I still type this way, and I can still do about 170+ wpm depending on how many cups of coffee I've had.

Later, this really helped me when I got an IBM Model F keyboard or Sun UNIX keyboard and when I would fly around Vi like a keyboard assassin it would amaze my colleagues. My current keyboard is a mechanical Ducky with Cherry MX Brown switches: https://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/Ducky-One-Golden-grey-TKL

I have learned to touchtype about 80WPM in my teens, over 2 decades ago and I still have hard time not bottoming out or using right shift key.

I have been successful in re-learning to use dvorak instead of qwerty and to type in a tempo (ie. with equal intervals, using metronome), but the bottoming dynamic is much more basic than that, I think.

For several years, sometimes I slacked off and just typed on my Mac keyboard, and fingers would start getting sore again so I'd switch back to the mechs. Now I've apparently healed up a bit and a modest amount of laptop typing doesn't bother me, but I still bring out the mechs for more substantial work.

I eventually realised that you’re supposed to press them gently, like you might with a camera shutter, just past the actuation point. Now I type faster, it feels better, and it’s really quiet.

After getting a mechanical with high force keys (80g) and learned to type without bottoming out I find with every key press you get a bounce back, a bit of energy that sustains typing. It's like tiptoeing on a trampoline.

One other thing I like about mechs is that you get to feel the center of the keys, as they have a small depression in the middle. this helps align hands to the buttons and reduces mistyping. Flat and crowded laptop keys bad with centering.

There are silicon o-rings that you can place around the stem peg of the keycap. It's like a $15 mod, takes about maybe a half-hour for a whole keyboard. It will definitely dampen the sound of the key bottoming out and will be a lot quieter and remove the blunt "shock" in your fingertips of bottoming out.

But even with everything you say, I still don't see the point. You'd have to find specific switches and keys (which will probably be more difficult to find and more expensive) just to end up with something that roughly matches a rubber dome keyboard.

And yeah, I admit they look cooler overall. And they have a more "hacker" vibe to them which I can appreciate. But again I still can't think why I'd spend all that extra money/effort on something that struggles to match a normal keyboard for typing.

And yeah, when I'm coding I hardly type, I spend most of the time thinking. But I still do a lot of typing in general. Writing online comments, group IM chats, searching stuff on the internet, typing commands into a terminal. And whenever I've tried any of that on a mechanical keyboard, it just feels like my typing speed is unnecessarily slowed down. I get irritated by the latency in the same way I get irritated waiting for a website to load all it's useless extra js scripts that will have no effect on the bit of text I want to read.

The K3 was about as close to a replacement for the Magic Keyboard that I have found, though. It's a good keyboard and if I wasn't so used to and familiar with the Magic Keyboard, I probably would have loved it. I just think the Magic Keyboard is better for my preferences.

I'm actually typing this on a Keychron K2 version 1 with Gateron brown switches, and it took a few weeks of trial and error as well as a wrist pad to be able to type anywhere near the comfort and speed of what had worked for me for years (but seemed like a recipe for disaster): hunched over my laptop's built-in keyboard and display at a standing desk, no external monitor or keyboard needed or desired.

Infuriatingly, the Keychron series' spacebar is noticeably longer than on Apple keyboards. The Keychron spacebar partly overlaps X and comma, whereas Apple keyboards for as far back as I can recall are exactly aligned with the outer edges of C and M. I also miss the Fn at far lower-left of Mac keyboards.

This was part of my "wasn't a fan of the layout" comment. The alignment of the X and Comma with the Command key, which is a key your thumb reaches to a thousand times a day, is so much more comfortable than any other keyboard I've found. And it really created some strain for me on the K3. I also wasn't a fan of the right shift being shorter to make room for the full size arrow keys (I'd rather have a tenkeyless or, preferably, the half-height keys on Apple keyboards) or of the function key on the right.

Really, I just wanted the Apple Magic Keyboard, the 60%/65% one, with a more tactile feel to it and preferably in black. I've looked at dozens of keyboards over the last 8 months and the K3 was the closest I found. So I'm just going to stick with the Magic Keyboard.

Still getting used to it over the Magic Keyboard though.

I can't say. I came to mechanical keyboards to get away from the crappy Apple laptop keyboards, so would never occur to me to use key caps like that.

- You'd have to find specific switches and keys (which will probably be more difficult to find and more expensive)

Have to? Or get to? Sourcing parts for your dream keyboard can be fun. At least as fun as any other hobby. At the end of the day, if you like the keyboard you're using, you're doing it right.

The one thing I will say, is that my fingers probably touch my keyboard more than any other item in my house. I'm a developer and I might spend hours straight at the computer. When you consider that, the $150 I spent on my keyboard or the $99 I spent on my trackball don't seem like so much money.

Historical reasons, I believe. Computer keyboards started out as typewriter keyboards modified to work with mainframes, and the typing experience was something that keyboard designers put some effort into recreating when designing things like the DisplayWriter or model f keyboards.

Personally, I hate low profile keys, but that's a matter of taste. It probably has to do with the fact that I learned to type on an IBM selectric II; still the best typing experience I've ever had, by far.

It’s an accessible hobby, requiring less time, skills and resources than drone racing or woodworking...

So you don’t “have to” spend money if it does not scratch an itch nor bring any satisfaction.

Fashion aside I love those small grid programmable keyboards. I don’t care too much about style, though my wife loves the plank ez “discokeyboard” as she says.

One of the cool things about mechanical switches is they can be built in such a way to have different characteristics. Much like how a car's suspension can be tuned to be soft or hard and with high ground clearance or low down you can build switches to be loud of quiet, clicky or soft, long or short travel.

As for why they are appealing, many people like tactile interfaces with positive feedback. In a world where everything is a touch sensitive slab of glass its nice to interface with something mechanical and responsive instead of a lifeless slate. Its the dexterous equivalent to ASMR. Its why people like manual transmissions, bolt action rifles, physical switches and knobs.

In an age where everyone and their mom (literally) are doing sponsored product reviews on youtube, and also as a lifelong hardware nerd, this parody really appeals to my inner soul.

I'd like to add actuation force to this list. It's one of the most important characteristics.

Yes.

Or at least, "mechanical keyboards" is broad enough that it also includes ortholinear or column-staggered designs, as well as split keyboards. (i.e. I mean a more narrow "some mechanical keyboards are much better than non-mechanical" rather than arguing "mechanical keyboards are always better than non-mechanical").

Typical keyboards have staggered-rows, and are asymmetrical. (The distance from left-ctrl to index finger is different from right-ctrl to index finger). The biggest downside of this design is it encourages heavy usage of the pinky finger, as well as stretching fingers, and moving the hand from home row. Compare the number of keys relegated to the pinky finger vs the much stronger thumb.

The customizability of these keyboards affords further techniques to reduce hand movement and pinky usage.

I'm happy to take the trade-off of a slightly longer travel time for the benefit of reduced usage of the pinky finger, reduced hand movement.

These benefits are orthogonal to the switches being mechanical. Maybe it's easier to come up with these designs by making use of mechanical switches. But almost all the "ortholinear or column-staggered, split" keyboards I'm aware of are mechanical.

Yeah you raise some good points, but as you mentioned here it doesn't really have anything to do with the types of switches. It's just that most of these non-standard keyboards happen to be mechanical.

In my comment I am mainly talking about the pros/cons of switching to mechanical switches.

The cost of mechanical keyboard is far lower in low quantities.

I feel to say about "mechanical keyboard vs standard keyboard", these niche ergonomic keyboards should be considered.

I only recently discovered these weird keyboards. So I figure that's as good an excuse as any to extol these benefits. (And complain about how weird a standard keyboard is!).

Capital required to come up with a keyboard design is a much more minor factor.

My perfect keyboard would have an ErgoDox layout, QMX driver, scissor switches w. chiclet keys, and individually-addressable LEDS.

I can only get three of these four things, and I can live with that.

I'm not sure I understand this. How does a rubber dome keyboard not do this?

> The key travel distance should be about the same as a membrane keyboard

I must disagree. I've tested them side by side, and all the mechanical keyboards activate at at least twice the distance. (I've tried like 5 different ones, so not exhaustive, but still)

> activation happens at the midpoint, not the terminal point

I do know this, but it also irritates me. Why not just stop at the activation point? That should give you better feedback than trying to find the activation point somewhere in the middle.

But, all I can say is "worse typing" is, well, super subjective. I type at least as well on mechanical keyboards, and I find my fingers don't get as tired when I'm using them. For what it's worth, I'm in my 50s, have been using mechanical keyboards for as much of the nearly 40 years I've been dorking with computers, and I've had very few RSI-related problems. I think I've been pretty good about ergonomics across the board, so I'm not going to ascribe that solely to keyswitches -- but I think they've definitely helped.

Are they are expensive? I paid less for mine than an equivalent apple keyboard, for example.

I like the aesthetic, personally.

The typing on them is, for me, both faster and more accurate. Well beyond that and of far more importance for someone who uses their hands to make money, I find the long travel and mechanical resistance is much, much more comfortable and less strain inducing.

You feel when the key was pressed . All new keyboards that you find in stores are horrible. Pressing on their keys is like pressing on a mat. Why do i always have to look on the screen to see if the press was registered ?

- Yes, but most (I'm having a bad experience with a malfunctioning 5-year-old Kinesis, but that's way too complicated a keyboard with too much electronics, programmability, etc) are simple and hardy. I've lugged a Happy Hacking inside a backpack for many many years and it's just great. It's lasted me three laptops by now.

- Judgement call, yeah.

- You don't have to press keys to the bottom. Keys that go all the way down take some getting used to, since they have an "implicit" point where they'll register, but overall travel time doesn't have to be much larger than in a thin keyboard. What makes it ergonomic is precisely that there's a lot of yielding to this point where keys will register, so your fingers aren't hitting the metal all the time.

I started using mechanical keyboards because I was trying to get into the classical guitar and had long fingernails on one hand. Except for the Kinesis, which does assume a whole postural ergonomics setting and desk space to place it, smaller keyboards like the Happy Hacking are a great add-on to a travelling laptop setup. Besides, since they're usually also USB hubs, you can switch your wireless mouse between laptops together with your keyboard.

The only thing I wish my Happy Hacking had is a wireless interface like the ubiquitous Microsoft mouses with the little dongle. But I'm not in a phase of my life when I'm spending a lot of money on new stuff.

I also quite like the clacketty sound they make but I totally get why some people would find that off putting. For me it’s as soothing as the sound of gentle rain on an autumn evening. Maybe I’m weird there but I’d wager I’m not unique.

Mechanical keyboards don’t need to be expensive either. I will grant you some people fetishise over high end keyboards but you can pick up new mechanical keyboards for the fraction of the price of those limit run models if you’re happy for something a little more mass produced (and, frankly, they work just as well).

Keyboard typing speed is always going to be dependent on what you’re used it. I bet some typists on a 1970s typewriter could run circles around the average developer on a chiclet keyboard.

Ultimately the choice of keyboard really boils down to personal preference.

Other than that though, I have tried co-workers $200 keyboards and see zero difference. I guess the short keyboards are kind of cool to have your hands truly centered when using a mouse.

Haven't had that particular issue since, only RSI was the kinds I'd have had regardless of if I used normal keyboards or not.

When I was able to write in coffee shops and the like, I didn't want to bother other patrons with a noisy keyboard, so I whipped up my own writing app that simulates loud keys via headphones, and it works almost as well as the real thing.

I grew up on the Apple Extended II keyboard and just recently bought myself a new keyboard with Alps switches. It feels like what I grew up with, it feels right to me.

That really depends. This one seems pretty quiet: https://youtu.be/rGM8Y6yal-8?t=337, but buckling spring keyboards are obnoxiously loud (IIRC from my childhood).

> - The keys are massive and ugly

That's only true if your preference is for laptop-style keyboards.

> - Massive travel time (So slow to type on)

IIRC, one of the main benefits of mechanical key-switches is that you don't have to bottom them out to activate them. On my keyboard, there's at least 50% more travel after the switch is activated, and the travel-to-activation doesn't seem massively different than a laptop keyboard.

Also, non-mechanical desktop-style keyboards require the most travel time of anything.

> Sure they are a bit more customizable, but is that really worth all the drawbacks? Especially the worse typing, which is the main point of a keyboard.

Honestly, I think one of the better arguments for mechanical keyboards is that most non-mechanical keyboards were designed with cost reduction as the top priority (or in the case of Apple, thinness for its own sake). I guess if you're used to that, it's fine, but gunning for cheap usually leads to quality compromises in other areas.

The most annoying things regarding mechanical keyboards is that the culture around them has weird obsessions (like stripping things down to the fewest possible keys and using stylish custom keycaps). For instance, when I was searching for a quiet keyboard video, I found this one (https://youtu.be/O3-9ttpaU0E?t=57), where they guy misses the point and thinks the cool thing about Symbolics keyboards was the keycap style, when it's really the seven modifier keys.

I use them together with a Kyria, best keyboard I've ever had.

My level of enthusiast is "I built my own." And not at all, everyone has their preferences.

I went with one of the loudest switches you can get (Kailh Box Jade) because the loudness of a switch is strongly correlated with the tactility of a switch. Tactility is the physical "bump" that typically aligned with the actuation point (and sound) of the switch. The theory is that bottoming out a switch can contribute to repetitive strain injury, and the tactile bump allows you acquire the muscle memory to stop before the bottom. Also, typing on the keyboard feels like cracking glass :).

There are really neat force diagrams that show the tactile bump[1].

Gamers and office workers tend to prefer linear switches, which don't have a tactile bump and are actuated by bottoming them out. The sound also arises due to bottoming them out.

> They are loud

You can alleviate 70% of this problem by choosing linear switches (typically red colored) and installing o-rings (about 30min of work). Enthusiasts go the extra mile and lubricate the switches and install a film in the switch that tightens up tolerances (this takes hours). Once you go the full mile, you end up with something like this[2].

You can't buy a keyboard with any of that done, unless you get someone to build it for you.

> The keys are massive and ugly

You can switch them out, keycaps come in all shapes and sizes, but that is definitely down to preference.

> They are expensive

Oh yes.

> Massive travel time (So slow to type on)

You do get low-profile switches, but that that gets expensive. The Logitech G915 starts at $229. Travel distance is only correlated to typing speed if you aren't used to larger travel distances. From what I've seen, the typing speed ceiling on mechanical keyboards is typically higher. In addition most people type incorrectly (myself included) and this contributes far more to typing speed than the mechanism of the keyboard.

--

Ultimately, keep doing what you are doing. If you like the extreme low travel of the Magic Keyboard, then that's the perfect keyboard for you. That being said, if you haven't given an appropriate mechanical keyboard a chance then you aren't making a decision with all the possible data.

[1]: https://chart-studio.plotly.com/~haata/417.embed [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2nLxvWvrJM

I've tried lots of other keyboards including cherry keys, and did not feel as solid. I think it's because the topre keys move up and down in a plastic cylinder that prevents side to side wiggling. I seem to type more accurately.

My previous favorite keyboard was an apple keyboard (older non-flat version) and I thought it was great. Then after getting used to the topre keyboard, I laughed - it didn't feel very good.

I had bought or built various mechanical keyboards, before settling on Topre switches. Topre switches are an obsession killer; many people find them vastly superior to any mechanical switch, and the customization options are nonexistent. One can't post pretty pictures of one's newest keycap set; one has to focus on the QMK keymap.

1. You have to try out a few to find one you like and most of them are only available online. 2. Mechanical keyboard enthusiasts drown out casual mechanical keyboard users. Most discussions you can find focus on overly advanced topics and most manufacturers cater to the enthusiast crowd. I don't think most casual users care aren't that nitpicky about performance or aesthetic, but the customization options appeal to the enthusiast crowd I suppose.

In my experience, I like low-profile mechanical keyboards with blue or brown switches. I was happily using a keyboard I found on Amazon for $40 that's now unavailable. I ordered two more expensive ones later on and hated them.

I recently got a Keychron K3 low-profile keyboard with optical switches and enjoy it a lot. It might be worth giving that one a shot when it's available again.

I myself am close to buying whatever I can that has much lower travel height and switch weight (my current keyboard is lovely but can make my hands cramp after a couple hours if it's cold or after repetitive use). I'm convinced the only real metric that is worth chasing in expensive keyboards is build quality, followed by whether you like how the switches feel and the form factor.

[0] https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_lis...

Honestly, I have no idea what will replace it when/if it finally gives up the ghost.

[1] I bought it back when USB keyboards were the hot new thing to have, back in the stone age.

I think my ideal keyboard would be something like the Moonlander + the keys on the new macbook: a little bit of a click but basically zero travel.

I hated the new MacBook keys the instant I tried them. It felt like I was typing directly on the table. I had no problem with accuracy, but I found it really uncomfortable.

I guess it is like a mattress, some people prefer it firm and others prefer it soft.

I have a Topre keyboard BTW, which I chose by going to a shop and trying plenty of different keyboards without looking at the price and specs. Unfortunately, I ended up preferring the most expensive one...

Obviously that is not healthy or sustainable in the long term for other reasons but it’s a huge weight off my shoulders not thinking I’m ruining my wrists trying to meet a launch date.

When I spilled a drink on it and gummed up a switch, I popped off the keycaps, took out a few screws, pulled out the board, desoldered the switch and soldered in a replacement switch. Good as new.

My favorite feature? The cord connects to the body with USB Type-C so even the cord is easily replaceable. The raised keycap design is nice too since I can just blow compressed air under all the keycaps to clean it and there's no raised edge around the faceplate to catch it.

Travel Distance, distance a key needs to travel to be actuated, is sometimes within 2mm (eg. cherry mx browns). If you learn to use just enough force to type, you glide over keys. No need to bottom out.

If I ever need to type something on a standard keyboard, I feel like moving stones.

I tried and tried to love mechanical keyboards, but when I was gaming I settled on the Apple USB keyboard because I could button mash all day without any distress.

I now have a little cache of ones I bought from residual stock after they were discontinued. The wireless ones are not the same (for one you can't plug usb devices into it, like the Logitech receiver)