Tribalism is everywhere. Dodge vs Chevy vs Ford is one that certain tradesmen might be inclined to take part in. Certainly even tool brands like DeWalt vs Makita.

I don't see a problem with it. This is like complaining that people have opinions and that they might argue about them. It's 100% human nature. Arguing against it is like arguing against the wind.

Perhaps there's even a tribe of folks who think that opinions are bad and everybody should just think like they do and not give a fuck. Well, that's just like, your opinion man.

If my opinions are not part of my identity, what is?

Overzealous tribalism can lead to otherizing and dehumanizing and all sorts of terrible things. Let's save those side effects for things that are a little more important than which car you like to drive.

Nobody has ever gone to actual war over personal opinions about cars, phones or computers.

Just because you can cherry pick a couple of examples of people destroying things over their opinions, that doesn’t mean anybody’s going to actual war and it doesn’t mean that having opinions or even arguing about them is bad in general. It’s human nature.

I get the point though - being less opinionated can be good and if you find that you’re better without them then I support that. I have sometimes wished to go live on an island or in a cave myself, to escape the constant culture war but instead I just turn off my Internet devices. Most days I just wade through it to find the stuff I agree with.

In this perspective, identity is about relating to other people, whether on matters of Chevy, Apple, or skin color.

I certainly don't need others to tell me whether or not I'm a credible person.

If a doctor knows they're good enough, is that good enough?

Obviously every person has their own personal view of themselves and everyone also has their view of other people. Which one you call "identity" is pedantry.

This multi-universe of identities is allowed. Through interactions they may change - or they may not. They are used to inform our decision making in either sense.

They are all allowed to exist simultaneously - whichever one you value more.

Makita is a standalone company that doesn't have a stable of brands (although potentially some OEM?).

See https://pressurewashr.com/tool-industry-behemoths/ for lists of brands owned by parent companies.

Not saying that you can't judge by the "brand"; just saying that many people are unaware that many brands are somewhat cosmetic...

I'd much rather people burn off that kind of tribal or religious energy via PS vs Xbox and Red Sox vs Yankees than Left vs Right, which is an unfolding disaster.

“This is a war universe. War all the time. That is its nature. There may be other universes based on all sorts of other principles, but ours seems to be based on war and games." - William S. Burroughs

Something something, identity, wanting to belong and signaling your position.

The same story plays out in tech especially when digital goods are purposely made non-compatible. The cost of switching brands includes not being able to access games, movies, music, or having to repurchase for the new platform. Those most heavily invested stand to lose the most.

[1] https://www.gwern.net/Holy-wars

I disagree: For example accepting or rejecting a golden cage is a deep decision about one's moral values - thus near to a religion.

It felt like a cult, we felt he asked to us make completely unpractical sacrifices purely in the name of an ideology, the Free.

In hindsight he might have been right, but there clearly was a communication problem, and our kneejerk reaction was to take distance from anything that looked like a cult.

That’s still how people react when they’re just told Apple is evil and they should give up their iPhone for some open source hardware phone or they’re sheeples.

Linux has its own flaws especially with how they handle package management: I wish Debian would differentiate between system required packages and user app packages, imagine letting the system run their sanctified version of Python but as a user being able to run any and all versions of Python.

I could easily argue Windows is easier than either one with WSL. Unlike on macOS you need to install Homebrew or similar plus then all your utils. With WSL you can install all sorts of Distros that may have everything you need OOTB.

They all have their benefits and trade offs and from year to year I go to and from Linux and Windows, I dont get compensated enough to be buying Macs so I only have the one Macbook Air but its enough to asess all three imho. I have also used dozens of Linux distros. I used to hop from distro to distro. My favorite thus far is still openSUSE.

No you definitely couldn't.

The experience is sub-par, having to deal with the Win boundary sucks, it's slower, and many apps don't work. This is very visible when trying to use an editor that's not imbued with Microsoft's magic.

WSL is a glorified virtual machine, that's all.

Homebrew does not install a virtual machine. I'm not 100% happy with it, but it usually works fine, and the packages are up to date, which you can't say if you'd go for Ubuntu, whose repo tends to lag behind, especially on LTS (and you want to be on LTS if you actually want a usable system).

If you want to take it to the next level, we also have Nix running on macOS ;-)

I dont want to spend more than 15 minutes installing an OS. Aside from the time it may take for the automated bits to run.

I like that line from the departed, "im an artist, give me a fucking tuber, ill get you something out of it."

P.S. - I still gave Linux a try a lot of times (and have to use it professionally everyday anyway), but sorry, all the ones that we use at our workplace still look like unfinished grad projects, not a professional OS to me - I have tens of reasons for believing that, but it would initiate the same wars that we're talking against here).

More exotic power tools are similar. Before I start butchering a project, anyone with a clue can spot my Ryobi or harbor freight junk and know I’m a noob.

A poor craftsperson will still produce shit regardless of how good their tools are.

On the other hand I did work in an IT department and saw people getting 3k€ devices where I know there is no way on earth they are going to need that horsepower, and I knew because I helped them using it daily. And guess what: it is usually Apple. The shiniest new thing just for the good of their own souls.

3k+ devices for sending screenshots wrapped in docx as a mail attachment.

And yes I get judgemental there. That doesn't mean all the people with an expensive Apple machine are status driven egomaniacs, there are people where these 3k+ are more than well invested — but over here they were too few..

The power is just the fig leaf to rationalize it.

What I’m saying is that there’s fanatics on everything, not just Apple. You were just exposed to Apple fanatics. There’s also Windows fanatics (not as common, but they exist). And, of course, there’s Linux fanatics.

There’s also fanatics in regards to hate. A big one we see here is Microsoft. Some here seem to think that the Microsoft of today is exactly the same one as the 90s. Never mind the fact that practically nobody from then is still there. But, “It’s their corporate DNA,” is something I’ve seen quite a bit here.

What I mean is a bit more like buying a toddler a Ferrari. Of course they like it — it is red (so it must be fast) — but they can't drive well enough to even leave the driveway.

I start to sound more bothered about this than I actually am, in fact it doesn't really bother me that much at all. It is just sad to observe how money is misused to stroke (most often male) egos and hurting the whole organisation through it.

Making your preference for "contrasting" Microsoft products (or whatever) part of your identity is even sadder.

There's an entire industry (pc gaming) that is still a pretty piss poor experience on other platforms. This has been true for 25 years and isn't showing any signs of changing. And the current direction Apple is taking is going to ensure the iPhone with all the impressive hardware is going will only be utilized to play candycrush and scroll through instagram photos, because quality games (and applications, e.g. Spotify, Netflix) rightfully don't want to give Apple 30% of every dollar they earn.

I would disagree there. Valve is still pushing Linux fairly successfully, despite the fact that "Steam Machine's" never took off.

I can tell you for sure I'll never use any of the bells. I'll go without a phone before I use any of them. Why? Because I had a weird charge show up on my bill 1 day. I called them, they told me it was a mistake and took it off. It showed up on the next bill. I called them, they told me it was a mistake and took it off.

This went on for a while until I eventually moved to another house. Down the road I find out that that mysterious charge somehow came back and then got sent to collections. This happened 25+ years ago and time hasn't tempered my feelings on the matter at all.

Same thing with my mobile. I went through AT&T & Sprint, leaving both of them early over some bullshit, and it will be a cold day in hell before I ever give them my money again. I eventually landed on Verizon and haven't had any issues for the roughly 10 years that I've been using them.

I still remember the day I got a huge bill from Sprint due to running over my minutes. I call them up and I shit you not the person on the phone told me they could give me the details of everything on that bill except for the 2 days in the middle of the month that I supposedly used up all my minutes. They could tell me who I called and for how long the day before those 2 days, and the day after, but not those 2 days. Oh, and also, if I pay right now while I'm on the phone they'll give me a discount on those minutes! I cancelled my account right then and there.

It's not unreasonable to expect a company to be able to tell you what they're charging you for.

Or Cox. I hate them with the passion of a thousand burning suns. If there were a viable alternative I'd be gone in a second. Just this Friday my internet goes out so I call them up. Do you know what the man on the phone led with? That my equipment is old. He started to blame that on the outage. The best part? It's a docsys 3 modem that's not even 5 years old. I told him in no uncertain terms that the reason it's "old" is because it works and doesn't need to be replaced. I had to convince this jackass that the problem wasn't on my end. Then he started trying to lecture me on how it must be my internal equipment. Only it wasn't my internal equipment because at some point it just miraculously started working again.

I have NO tolerance for bullshit from companies. I don't setup autopay for anything, I sit down every month and manually pay bills. Why? Because I've had companies believe I owed them money I didn't believe I owed and had them just straight up pull it from my account.

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My point here is that the feeling I got from the article is that this isn't about simple fanboyism, but about having high expectations of companies.

However, people who use windows/office have a tendency to try to force you to use windows as well. Even today.

But farmers are getting pissy about tractor DRM. If you can't control your tools, they will control you. I'm sure everyone on HN could list plenty of examples.

Since neither human nature or marketing are liable to go away any time soon I doubt the team mentality to buying things will either.

1997!

I’d be a real power tool guy if I could afford Hilti, but I get some cred for being a Makita guy.

While tribalism does have its bad points, am not sure modern capitalism/consumerism could survive without it.