How did you go about getting your phd? Did you take a break from paid work to go to school? Did you work on your thesis nights/ weekends?

Do you feel like you learned from your advisors, some if whom I'd imagine were younger than you?

Did you study an area related to your work at the time? Or did you use it to learn a new area?

I took two years off to complete my PhD when one contract ended and could not immediately find another. I thought at the time if not now, I'll never find the time. Actually my primary advisor and sponsor was a professor at the University and head of the department. We kept in contact over the years and he kept bugging me to get my act together and finish what I started.

I would also be fascinated to learn this. Liked the idea for several years of gaining a PhD, but I just couldn't imagine taking three or more years out of my career at this point. The only vaguely-related anecdata I have is from my mother, in a completely different field, who was a nursery school teacher (kindergarten to our friends across the pond) with a strong emphasis on creative development, but only after retirement at 65 did she actually go to university and get herself a fine arts degree. Now she potters away in her little studio every day and will probably not be in any danger of losing her marbles.

+1 I'm deeply interested. Been thinking a lot about doing a Masters in AI/ML but I'd rather not stop working. Been considering part time masters programs but finding them is tricky.

I did my Master’s part-time at DePaul University with almost all of the program online while I was working. They have an AI track but I am not sure how good it is.

I did a part-time PhD there. Took ten years but I had a very supportive advisor and managed to finish it working a day a week on it. You get out of it what you put in. They have good teachers but if you do it remotely it's on you to do a lot of self directed learning, for the PhD anyways. I now work as a researcher for a large e-commerce company. As part of the program we take Masters courses in ML and AI and they were good, I learned a lot.

How did you find your advisor? Are/were you in the Chicago area while doing your PhD? Did the fact you were doing it part-time require you to pay a tuition?

Do you think it was worth it? Did you like the program?

I did enjoy the program and for me it was 100% worth it. I had a non-CS undergrad degree and by taking classes I was able to get my first developer job and the things I learned in the program allowed me to end up getting a more advanced position at a company than the position they had open. They had a UI position but ended up getting a backend position working on their trading platform due to some of the work I had done in the graduate program. One downside for me, though, was my math background was lacking (took discrete math, business calculus, a relatively light stats class and econometrics in undergrad) so I wasn't able to do a lot of the more interesting looking classes. Also, I was excited about the multiple compiler classes that were on the course catalog but none were offered in the 5 years I was in the program.

It is hard for me to say if the program would be worth it for somebody with an undergrad degree in CS. The cost of the program is incredibly high and I walked away from the program with ~$80k in loans (could have been a bit less but had to take more in the beginning to be able to support my wife as well). I'm also not sure how rigorous the program is compared to others.

Have you considered https://omscs.gatech.edu/?

Disclosure: I am taking my 6th course of 10 as a current student in that program

What do you like and dislike about the program? It’s been on my wish list for several years now, but I’m hesitant to commit.

I'm also a student in OMSCS, on my fifth class of ten.

Likes:

- It's very affordable. My company's education reimbursement is able to cover the whole program.

- The courses are rigorous and I don't feel like I'm retreading very much from my undergrad.

- I'm going to end up with a degree from a top program that is exactly the same as is granted to students who attended on campus.

Dislikes:

- The course selection is a bit limited. Some of the classes that I want the most are only available on campus.

- Slack and Reddit are active, but I feel like I'm missing the social aspect of being a student.

- Some people are skeptical of the online format, which is frustrating sometimes.

It's 7k for the whole program. That alone makes it worth it.

You should definitely consider it, I am a graduate from the same program :)

GA Tech OMSCS is tailor made for you...

> Do you feel like you learned from your advisors, some if whom I'd imagine were younger than you?

Why do you think it'd be unusual to learn from someone younger than yourself?

Really good point!

I think as an internet generation we are the first ones to experience decreasing importance of the age.

I am sure he also had plenty to teach them! Experience hones your problem solving and troubleshooting skills.

I am also interested in any responses to these questions. Even if not from the OP.

Someone below mentioned remote. When I first started there was no such thing as remote learning. These days even the most prestigious universities offer BSc programs where you never have to set foot on campus and can do it all over the internet. The nearest I came to that was when the University finally offered somewhat remote courses but it involved ordering books and course materials and taking exams where you had to get a proctor to monitor your exam taking. I did a course or two that way and used my local church pastor as the exam proctor. That method was really difficult. Completing a single course was a major accomplishment.

Actually taking Internat based courses now takes a lot of self discipline. Far too easy to slack off and do something else.

The Open University (remote) was founded in 1969, so it isn't exactly new.

How’s the cost compared to a brick-and-mortar place?

From what I have seen, the cost of Internet-based courses is generally pretty high. Seems like you would be paying a high per credit cost minus the on-campus costs like room and board. There are going to be exceptions but that seems to be about the norm. There are a few places where State Universities give free tuition to in-state residents.

I remember paying about $12 a credit a long time ago and that was difficult. These days, I don't know how normal people can afford to go to school. You get yourself deep in debt for student loans you can never pay off. I don't know how that can be workable.

I'd be very curious too. My son's university is proposing to do the next year (mostly) remote, which sounds like a perfect way for me to go back for a couple of classes too. I always wanted more letters after my name.

> I always wanted more letters after my name.

This is a really bad reason to do a degree, if you want my unsolicited opinion.

That depends a lot on where you live. In Austria, for example, where I lived for several years, academic titles carry a strong social cachet and are used absolutely everywhere - on your credit card, bills from the city council for cleaning out your bins etc. People with more than one PhD will be addressed as Dr Dr Firstname Surname, someone with a regular engineering degree is allowed to refer to themselves as Ing. Surname instead of Herr/Frau. It's a really big deal.

> Dr Dr Firstname

Never seen that one before!

Who knew that Thompson Twins song was really about a highly educated Austrian.

And Robert Palmer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQdaSpEeBvQ

You get a "Dr." for each PhD.

Walter H. Schottky's grave in Pretzfeld says "Prof. Dr. Dr. e.h. Dr. e.c. Dr. e.h. Walter Schottky"

My mother did a maths degree in her 50s, remotely, over several years. She grew up in a time and place where she didn't have the opportunity to get that eduction. She just wanted it for the sake of it, I suppose to prove to herself that she could. But mainly to "get the qualification", not do anything with it. It was a perfectly fine reason to do a degree. Plus I think the person you're responding to was being at least a little tongue-in-cheek anyway so no big deal either way.

If you're going to become a post hole digger, it can only help you if you don't take things too seriously. :)

I'm almost positive that was tongue-in-cheek.

How do you find your brain works and how productive you are compared to say 20 years ago? My father is in his late 70s and gets quite tired during his day - I wonder if you keep working it keeps the brain more active.

Also it must be weird going to a retirement party for someone who is 15 years younger than you :D

My brain works fine. My body - not so much. I tire more easily than I did 20 years ago but so what. I get up at 4:30 AM every day and work at something until about 8 PM and then am in bed by 8:30.

The absolute worst thing you can do is retire. That is the beginning of the end. I will work until they plant me.

> I get up at 4:30 AM every day and work at something until about 8 PM and then am in bed by 8:30

I do me too (since I was about 30). Not exactly 04:30 though — sometimes I get up at 02:00, sometimes 06:00 ... working 4 - 10 hours, then siesta for about 1 hour.

I find that with a 30 min or 1.5 hours? power-nap/siesta, my brain "resets" and I can stay concentrated 10 - 12 hours a day.

Edit: Now I see that you're in bed 8:30 PM. I first read 8 AM and assumed that that meant a power nap. — Seems I get tired a lot sooner than you.

That's for sure. I just went to my granddaughter's 18th birthday party. She knew I was still working full time and she couldn't figure out how old I was so she asked me. When I told her I was born before the 2nd World War she wouldn't believe me. My daughter corrected her.

Actually, now this is hard to take - but when I was a kid in my home town, there were still a couple of civil war vets alive in the local hospital. How is that for something crazy.

AAARRHHH! A friend has been telling me about her dad, he was full of life and when he came up to my cabin he was a whirlwind of activity.

But after they sold the house (he loved gardening) and moved into a condo where there is little to do she can see him going downhill month by month. Before he had a purpose in his life (gardening and house maintenance), now he just has the sit around or go on bike trips. It is a shame.

It sounds as though your friend urgently needs to investigate service opportunities for her dad. Sometimes when people discover how unexpectedly useful they are to others, it's like a psychological vitamin that was missing.

This.

Many retired people need help with what others consider everyday (monthly, yearly) tasks: changing filters, fixing a door, light bulbs, or minor electrical fixture/switch/appliance repair, stopping ants entering the building, a leak in the ceiling, etc. Fixing PC problems counts too.

Anyone who has owned and maintained a home is capable of doing these things provided they're in good health. I'm always happy to help my retired neighbors with their little problems, perhaps b/c I don't have enough of them and they are an interesting distraction, as well as making me feel helpful.

And helping people from abroad, new in the country, learn the language.

There're lots of older / retired? people at a library here where I live, two evenings a week, meeting younger people (say 15 to 35 years old) who recently moved to here, with learning the local language and school work.

There're younger volunteers too, helping out with the language, maths, chemistry etc — but I was surprised to see that many older & retired people, maybe 70% of the volunteers. (This was before the virus, now I think libs are closed.)

My aunt went to a great retirement community outside Boston. In her 80's she was Chair of the Computer club, and helped lots of newcomers find their feet. She also edited the newsletter etc. She wasn't alone in that community in being active. She lasted til 94 and was pretty healthy til last few months - and had no regrets and didn't particularly want to live on. Great example...

Bike trips are more exercise than gardening, though..

I regularly kayak long distances in rough conditions, backpack, jump rope, practice yoga, play hockey aggressively with people half my age, and engage in calisthenics, and have been for ~20 years. Currently in my mid-40s, I am never more sore than after a few hours of pulling weeds in my garden.

And if you any taller than average, your back and bottom will hurt from short tool handles and constant crouching down and back up!

I wouldn't be so sure. I did a load of gardening over the weekend, and it involved heavy things. I'm sure I got more exercise to more muscles in my body than I would if I had gone on a bike ride.

I'm guessing you mean motorbike and the person you're replying too thought you meant bicycle...

I am guessing they didn't: gardening can be serious work. It also depends on the type of gardening, the size of the garden, available equipment, etc.

Just like you can do a 3km/2mi leisure bike ride, or bike ride for strength (eg sprinting uphill) or endurance you can do the same with gardening.

I am also guessing you've never covered any serious area with a garden hoe. :)

you're right, i haven't!

Not OP and not in their age group but I would say it comes down to either genetics, lifestyle choices or combination of both.

I made a bunch of lifestyle choices (lost weight, keto diet, being more active, less screen time at night, etc). As a result I've noticed a significant increase in energy levels and mental clarity.

Not to be rude but:

> Not OP and not in their age group

Then why are you answering?

He wanted to share similar experience with the caveats up front. Concept of free country, free world, free internet :)

I had similar reconnaissance but now I hesitate to share. But challenge accepted, worst case is downvotes :) 4 years back, maybe 5 I used to think this is how old age was (would not mention my age but it is younger than the main OP), body slowly unable to do what is used to be able to do. Then after 2 stents and change in lifestyle, I find I can do same or more than what I could do 5 years back, maybe a decade back. Will it continue like this for next decade, or the decade after that? Who knows? But there are many things within the that are in the range of probability and it is on us to push towards the higher end of the range. For those who start disciplined, it may not make much of a difference, but think of an average person ... I think programming at 70 should be feasible for most as long as they fixed their lifestyle by 50. [Most but not all because this is a game of odds]

> Then after 2 stents and change in lifestyle, I find I can do same or more than what I could do 5 years back, maybe a decade back.

What kind of change in lifestyle made such a positive difference for you?

It varies from person to person, but for me: cut down/eliminate sugar (my soda consumption is now 1-2/year whereas earlier it would be every day, multiple sometimes), cut down/eliminate lattes, eat only as per hunger, diet is more of a whole foods plant based but I take eggs regularly and meat once a week while shunning all packaged/frozen food. Still lot more veggies than carbs. And exercise, it is not an option, you do not need to binge on it but you can not lose a month just being a sloth. You need to move. I could always walk but after stents it took me a month to go from initial 0.8 miles attempt to 1.0 miles but keep working on it slowly and steadily never adding on a massive risk. Last year I did my first (and so far only) 10K which I could not have dreamed of a decade back, and touch wood, the recovery times after these are fantastic : not so when I did the first 5K.

The bad side effects: focus. There are times when you are in the zone and you want to finish some piece of work, and the watch tells you to get up because it is 50 minutes after the hour. 2 very conflicting needs: moving for health vs sit and focus. If I was not overthinking of health, I would rather focus and get the job done in one sitting.

That's great info, thanks. I probably need to internalise it, fast!

Lockdown has given me a couple of months of sitting in one place. I've really enjoyed the focus and productivity, and online conferences I couldn't have attended otherwise.

But my usual exercise is to walk around town extensively, and to pace a lot while thinking. Not much of that happening while confined to a small space.

Hmm in fact lockdown has increased my activity levels. Depends on where you live though. Started working from home and I set up a desk in garage because that seemed the best option and climate should be ok 9/12 months, I usually dress up like going to office by 9, so at max I need shoes but otherwise by lunch I am anyways wearing shoes, so easy to get in and out for a small stroll and there are hardly any people on our residential streets so little chance of running into someone within 6 feet or you step on to the street and let them pass. The main advantage is being able to go from workspace to walk in 15-30 seconds. Couch to walk is much more difficult.

Like in politics, there are different camps in terms of nutrition and DIY well being. You follow what works for you, but the best in terms of "pitch" I liked was Dean Ornish and he wants you to focus on a) diet, b) exercise, c) meditation, and d) social connections. All of that is needed, and all of that helps.

> Still lot more veggies than carbs.

Uh, vegies are mostly carbs?

Even the veggies with a very high carb content (potatoes, corn) are low (~15-20%). Bread has about 50%, maccaroni about 35%, while other veggies (broccoli, carrots) usually have less than 10% carbs.

Sorry I am not a doctor and at a superficial level I was thinking of veggies vs bad carbs. Would not go further because what I know, I know, but I am sure it can be challenged and people will do better to read on these.

Yes, and was a woman involved?*-))

I do not understand the asterisk reference, but nope.

Even if not in their age group, it is still applicable. Someone in their 80's that has eaten right and excercises and gotten good sleep for 80 years probably has significantly more energy than someone who did the wrong things.

Took an interesting course on aging and the brain. Everyone suffers some degree of cognitive decline but it can vary wildly based on a number of circumstances to an almost negligible extent for lucky people. A lot of it is out of your control but high performing people who keep engaging their mind can compensate better for decline.

It’s also why leaving your job or moving to a place with less activity can accelerate decline. Unfortunately, brains are also very sensitive to depression at an advanced age (less blood flow among other things), so grief/loneliness etc can quite literally cause deterioration. Another reason IMO to make sure seniors can work if they want to.

interesting, did they talk about the topics of nootropics and atherosclerosis in this class?

Yes to atherosclerosis, not too much about nootropics. It's a fantastic course, available from the Stanford school of continuing studies. It was a two full days weekend seminar taught by a neuropsychologist who works at the Stanford Hospital. I'm not an alumni and anyone can register for these course so I really, really recommend it!

I'm a young guy (31) but the class was so cool. People from ages 25 to 90 year old Stanford alum.

The brain is like any other part of your body, if you let it atrophy it'll loose it's edge over time. This is not to say you can't sharpen that edge with practice. Gotta hit the "gym" to get your shape back :)

I'm 43 now and working like 23 years in IT in various roles. Started a few companies and did that all on a high school diploma. One of my dreams is when I retire to finally go to university and get a proper degree.This more for emotional sentiment.

My grandfather was a (fighter)pilot and later he worked senior management at a bank. His biggest regret was not going to uni himself(poor parents and the army paid for it), later that my mum didn't go uni (she became a teacher) and after that even his grandson didn't get a degree.

Hopefully I can follow it online and I can speed up the lectures to 1,75x :d

> One of my dreams is when I retire to finally go to university and get a proper degree.This more for emotional sentiment

I'm around same age and experience, though I'm actually getting a degree now. My advice is - don't. It's an unbelievable waste of money and time. My initial goal was to leverage the degree into a better job but my plans changed and now I'll just be left with a useless piece of paper. In any case, getting a degree once you retire would be even worse. Work on some real world project that you enjoy, rather than settling for doing menial tasks, doled out by people who may know less about the subject than you do, while being rewarded with virtual points/grades.

I finished an associates degree at 38 from a community college, one of the credits I used was 20 years old. I would agree some of the classes were box checking and pointless.

The degree itself isn't useful but it did make me take a few classes I wouldn't have otherwise. I took physics 101 in person and absolutely loved it, I took art history online and didn't expect to like it but it turned out interesting.

Assuming you can go somewhere where the credits don't expire I suggest taking one class a time when you have time available. Read the rate my professor reviews and look for the good teachers. Most of the time online is fine but don't be afraid to take a class in person, lots of older students at night classes.

"I've forgotten more than you'll ever learn, but I still remember most of it" seems like an appropriate response if the question is ever raised.

Kudos to you for not losing your passion for the job!

Why are you not yet retired? I can think of few strong reasons, but I would love to hear from you. (I started programming at 8, I’m 41 and I have no plans of stopping )

Not quite as old, and but started at tech around the same age. At its core, I still love doing it, even though employers start seriously frowning on hand-on work when you're in your 50s/60s.

Not everything is great: the procession of silly methodologies, the endless train of obviously doomed technologies, and the recent obsession with social justice appearances. But the core of tech is still ripping good fun.

I'm also getting on (started programming as a kid early 80's on Atari 600) and agree with what you said - it really resonated with me and what I've seen over the years.

Sometimes too, I see comments from people frustrated with having to "work so hard". I'm sorry they have that burden, but for me, programming is not a negative in my life -- even though often times I do it many hours more than is actually asked of me. Sure it's got it's boring/frustrating times, alternatively it can be very difficult, rigorous, and taxing, but I doubt I'll ever completely put it down.

Not retired because I don't want to live on social security alone. That would be a bummer.

What about retirement savings? If you had funded your 401(k) and IRAs with an engineer's salary for this many years you should have many millions to live off of.

> What about retirement savings? If you had funded your 401(k) and IRAs with an engineer's salary for this many years you should have many millions to live off of.

Retiring to millions may be true in theory for certain programmers, but certainly not true for all programmers.

Reality is often different for everyone. As the African proverb says: “all fingers are not equal” meaning the outcome of a specific situation can differ across people. For instance, what if s/he had a financially draining medical emergency, forcing them to rejoin the workforce?

>If you had funded your 401(k) and IRAs with an engineer's salary for this many years you should have many millions to live off of.

And then what? Believe it or not, some people consider programming a blessing and fun. If it keeps you engaged, why not continue to get paid for it?

Many people suffer various setbacks in life ... take medical bankruptcy for example. You never know how it will turn out.

Yes. imagine if you retired you could turn to programming full time just for fun!

Thats my goal. All of the programming I enjoy doing has no clear way to monetize.

I'd love to spend months reverse engineering proprietary electronics and writing open source code / datasheets for them.

End of the day, passion & some objective in life - is more valuable than few dollars we earn. This is more useful in old age than ever.

It’s like in Shawshank. First you can’t stand the bars, then you get used to them, then you can’t live without them.

After 50+ years of structured work people forget how to be in charge of themselves.

Or, more optimistically, if you love what you do you'll never work a day in your life. I love programming too and have no plans on stopping either.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

Continuing programming != continuing being an employee, working for others.

Some types of work are only feasible to do when working for others.

For example, of you love rocket science and working on rockets, you're probably better off working for NASA or SpaceX.

What's wrong with working for others? Similarly, what's the point of programming (or of any work, I suppose) if it isn't helping someone?

Not all jobs are the same or similarly enjoyable. E.g. instead of working on CRUD apps for the rest of the life, one might prefer working on a Rust interpreter in Haskell or a Gameboy emulator in Prolog - would be hard to find such 9-to-5 jobs - and after all, one might not want 9-to-5 schedule at all.

In other words - one might want freedom, basically.

As for not helping someone - programming can be recreational, just for the sake of enjoyment.

> What's wrong with working for others?

Nothing really.

I guess what the parent was getting at was that if you are an employee at a point of your life when society expects you to be retired, then you will not be able to allocate your free time as you see fit. In other words, working for others past retirement means you never really retire enough to indulge in things you never had time for in your prime, like spending quality time with one’s spouse for instance [0].

[0] Google’s former highly-paid CFO decides to retire after working for nearly 30 years consecutively https://mashable.com/2015/03/10/googles-cfo-retires-memo/

Depends on personality too, I guess.

I finish projects when they're for work. Or at least, I stay focused.

My own hobby projects are more fulfilling to me, but I often put them aside for long periods - sometimes years - because I don't need to finish them to get pleasure out of doing them, and it's much harder to stay motivated to finish the often very boring parts when I don't have to.

But it feels good to finish things up too. I can push myself to do that for side projects, but the time and energy it takes to get me motivated to do that when I don't have the external pressure to motivate me is much harder.

If I "retire" I'll probably have to do a startup again to have some of that pressure...

Programming is the thing you love the most and if it was 100% up to you what to do with your time you’d still do it?

I mean I don’t hate my job but damn I’d just sit in front of the TV and go for walks if that was an option.

Personally I love programming, among other things that people might regard as similar to programming.

The prospect of just sitting in front of TV and going for walks is horrifying. For short breaks, sure, that's really nice. For years? Horrifying.

Solving technical problems is vastly more satisfying than that.

It's like maths to a mathematician, physics to a physicist. Why would they ever stop, given freedom to carry on?

I would love to be able to retire for the freedom, but with that freedom I would want to build technology, much as I do now except I'd choose the things (and they would be much better things!)

(It might be that the kind of programming you do in your job is a very different thing though. I'm not excited by writing more business forms either. Programming is an extremely broad term these days.)

Yep, the lockdown means I am at home all the time, so I started pulling out hardware to make things, programming the programs that always I was working on in the back of my head and finish writing the fan-fics I have going.

The idea that you only do things because it is your job suggests a limited life, I remember when I was working telling the others about all the trips and cruises I did on my time off. When I asked they what they did on vacation they always went to the same places year after year. I guess that is what they wanted.

Why is it wrong for me (or anyone) to get fulfillment out of their job? Thanks to my partner I do the traveling thing; I visit other countries, sample other cultures, and routinely try new things. I'm not averse to any of it, but I don't understand the appeal, much less (what I read as) the condescending attitude against people who don't do it. Why can't we just "live and let live", without judgement, even if others choose to live differently than ourselves?

> The prospect of just sitting in front of TV and going for walks is horrifying. For short breaks, sure, that's really nice. For years? Horrifying.

Can you acknowledge that solving technical problems for decades is just as horrifying to me? And that watching TV and doing nothing is extremely satisfying to me?

> Can you acknowledge that solving technical problems for decades is just as horrifying to me? And that watching TV and doing nothing is extremely satisfying to me?

Of course, I'm completely happy to acknowledge that!

I know some programmers who were pretty hot, but one day they had enough and never wanted to go back into it. Good for them, hopefully they found something else they enjoyed.

What I was addressing before was:

You seemed to express skepticism that someone else finds programming something they would actually prefer to do, over retiring from the field, unless they are institutionalised or imprisoned, like some kind of sick creature.

So I added myself to the data, along with mathematicians, physicists etc. to support an argument some may relate to, to say it's not that unusual for people to actually love programming or other intellectual activities like that.

I should have included artists and writers. The motivation is a lot like it is for them: It feels innate, like an instinct, it just makes you miserable if you don't pursue it.

I assure you, if you could see the messy diversity in my life, you would not think of me as institutionalised, or particularly structured :-)

I don't think that acknowledgement is necessary. Nobody's distrusting you; it's just… people are different. What applies to you doesn't necessarily apply to other people. If someone's still working years after they got the option to retire, chances are they enjoy it.

I want to start by acknowledging that's a totally legitimate perspective.

I'm curious though - do you think you'd be fine with only doing walks and TV for 40+ hours a week? Personally I got interested in computers and programming very early, and at first it was 100% a leisure activity. It stayed at roughly that level of exciting for me until probably 6 months to a year into being employed as a developer, but it's no longer the #1 thing I like to do when I'm not at work. My current situation is work with a side of typical relaxation (watch tv, browse the internet, etc.), but I expect when I eventually retire I'll start spending a bunch of leisure time on programming and general messing-with-computers stuff again.

I know I’d be fine with it.

I took 3 years off from working (lived frugally off savings) and that is basically all I did. Purposely avoided anything that would be considered “productive work.” I mean I read some books and rode my bicycle, too. But my time was pretty much just watching TV/movies and laying around.

Best time of my life by far.

I cringe when I tell someone about it and they are like, “oh but didn’t that get boring?”

Are you saving up to do it again? I want to do something similar but I find it hard to justify the cost. I also feel like my family would constantly hassle me about it, which seems like it would offset any sort of relaxation or enjoyment I might get from the experience.

Unfortunately I now have a chronic disease that makes constant health insurance a necessity.

Do you mean family like parents/relatives harping from a distance? If so, they’re just jealous and aren’t worth listening to. As long as you’re smart about your money and make a plan to get a job before you’re tapped out, go for it.

This sounds like absolute hell to me

I had ultimate and total freedom to do exactly what I wanted. If that’s not heaven I don’t know what is.

"I had ultimate and total freedom to do exactly what I wanted"

That does sound like heaven. Watching TV all day does not.

Fwiw, I agree with you.

Freedom to choose is what it's about.

I'm really glad you got to enjoy those 3 years.

I have no problem understanding your preferences and I don't question your choices, except for one: why would you spend time on news.ycombinator? I assume you find it ... fun?

I build up the karma of my accounts and then sell them.

I seem to recall you saying this before, and I assumed it was a joke, since someone who was doing that probably wouldn't say they were doing it, and it would devalue the sold account to leave a comment like that up.

But now users are asking me if this is ok. Obviously it's extremely far from ok, if true, so I need to ask: is it true?

I spend most of my free time programming for fun. It is not unheard of.

I'm 78. I do the same. I select problems from Codeforces or Codewars and work on those. I did enter contests for awhile but needed more experience to successfully compete.

I learned python a few years ago and have experience with several other languages as well. Python is perfect for someone like myself. To me it is a thing of beauty.

I read a lot - history and biography mainly. Favorites: The Fatal Shore and Empire of the Autumn Moon. Travel 2-3 times a year. Been to Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, South America as well as all over North America. Favorite place? Singapore.

Walk 2 miles+ a day.

Am a top backgammon player on ZooEscape.

Been married 51 years today and been blessed with 3 great kids.

Not rich but comfortable. Always been a saver or what my sister calls a cheapskate.

Am definitely slowing down. Am more cranky. And think the world is going crazy. Other than that life is better than I expected it would be at this age.

Without a doubt I'd continue programming even if I wasn't working. It's a craft. And like any other craft there are those who enjoy it as a creative outlet.

>I’d just sit in front of the TV and go for walks if that was an option.

Thats fun for the first week. The second week its depressing but you still do it. On the third week you will be picking up hobby projects and working on them just for fun.

Yes, absolutely! Obviously there's other things I enjoy doing as well, but programming by far has the greatest impact on the world around me, and I love seeing the things I help create making other people's lives easier.

Weird take. I've been programming for 40 some years. I don't do it full time, trading time for $ anymore, but I still do it to write tools for my business pretty much every day. Cuz it's fun.

The word is "institutionalized" as Morgan Freeman put it in the movie.

I'm sure he would be retired if he wanted to

>I am 80 years old and still working full time in IT.

Serious question. Why? I love coding; I'll probably code as long as I live, but I can't imagine tying myself down to a full time job beyond the point where I need the money.

Some people just enjoy their job. I know several engineers who retired, only to return after a hiatus because they missed working with a team on something they were good at and passionate about. Work isn't always about money.

Right, I can understand why someone might wish to work part time even if they didn't really need the money, but I don't see myself working full time beyond the point where I am fully financially independent from needing to.

Good for you! At 14 I was hooked, and knew that this - programming, IT, technology - was for me. I can see myself in your shoes some day. The "outside world" just doesn't get the allure sometimes ;).

As a twenty-something, I'd love to work along side an "old timer". Many of the abstractions and technologies change in our field, but just as many foundational concepts stay constant. I'm sure I would learn so much.

Best of luck to you.

At what age did you begin your first full-time programming job?

I just found this thread and it's so great. You are an inspiration dear sir/madam. Do you still exercise?

As someone that will work well past retirement age, what lessons or wisdom could you impart on us youngins'?

Evolved?

"I am sorry, but you are not a programmer anymore"

Your gatekeeping is not welcome here. This isn't a competition.

"The reason you are able to completely ignore the age issue is because there's no ageism in hiring business analysts and project managers. The ageism is visible in hiring programmers, which most certainly you are not."

and your unfounded conclusions aren't welcome either.

> This isn't a competition.

Except it is, as that is the single goal of this thread: Find out who is the longest serving Programmer, not the oldest guy doing something with IT. His remark is not wrong in that context.

But it is unnecessary, pedantic and mean. We can all read the programmer/analyst's post for ourselves; we don't need an interpreter.

By that logic we should only have single depth in comments. Everyone is reading every comment for themselves.

The "but they said this" posts add nothing. The thread is unchanged if they are removed. So I advise, don't post them.

In addition that unnecessary post asserted personal things not in evidence, giving the most uncharitable interpretation which is actually in direct violation of this site's standards and practices.

It does add something. If there is a direct question, and someone is answering it incorrectly it should be valid to tell them they misunderstood. Also calling someone a non programmer is not mean.

Nope. Not a charitable interpretation; not necessary by any means to 'correct' what is obviously an anecdotal comment in the same vein as the OP. Not even correct to call the commenter a non-programmer - assuming things not in evidence.

A question like "But have you been continuously employed as a programmer?" could be reasonable and not mean-spirited.

The goal seems to be sharing experiences at different points in long careers. I don't see any competition.

I am just 37 but find myself much more comfortable in management than writing code, compared to 27yo myself. I can't understand why you shame someone for pointing at true facts.

It's a bit pointless given the commenter in question didn't even call themselves a programmer. Or comes across as doubling down: "I know you didn't call yourself a programmer, but just to make sure you know you don't count anymore I'll tell you explicitly". And of course being PM doesn't preclude programming too, so it's just guessing.

Don't really have a stake in this either way, but presumably to determine the "longest-serving programmer", it is a bit of a competition, no?

Definitely the comment was mean-spirited, but the core - which is that if we are trying to determine longest programmer, this is likely not a contender - seems to be true?

as soon as you start to perceive online interactions as a competition, you get exactly the kind of attitude the original comment had. We can seek to figure out who might be the "longest-serving programmer" without being combative and dismissive.

I don't think the OP is looking to claim the "Official Award for Longest-serving Programmer" as much as they are looking to start a discussion to learn more about others (which Ask HN is almost always for). This is an anonymous online forum after all, how much strict moderation and fact-checking of peoples history do you want to have?

I don’t think the parent’s point is invalid. We’re seeking the oldest programmer, in this case someone who writes code professionally.

If we want to play fast and loose with our definitions then I’m a farmer, because I grow plants in my backyard.

this is an online forum. Ask HN is for starting discussions. This isn't a rigid competition that needs to be strictly moderated.

Even all that aside, his tone and dismissive attitude towards ageism is not welcome here.

I don't think you have any idea if they're still programming or not, and thus stating "you are not a professional programmer" is totally unfounded even if it turns out to be true. However, the reverse is also possible.

They transitioned from "pure programming" only in the last few years. Most of the long-time programmers that I've known that transition to other roles keep programming. Some of them were absolutely brilliant programmers and it's a hard decision organizationally to take their time away from coding and put it into some other area.

I've also known "professional programmers" that 1) don't seem to care about code much at all and 2) aren't writing much code at all, sloppy or otherwise.

I think the label "programmer" can be descriptive of all sorts, and has more to do with how often the skill is deployed and less to do with job title/role.

Just because your job title is "head chef" doesn't mean you don't still cook...in fact there's a good chance you can still run circles around your line cooks even if managing the kitchen means your knife skills are not as good as they once were.

I propose the simplest metric. Point to a hash for a commit that made it into production (your project or a collaboration) in the last month. If you have that in hand, you're still "programming".

Is it true that everyone in the media during your childhood spoke in a nasally accent?