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Re:The Google Squeeze by brenden2 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @11:43AM (#21515498)
It's not just Google, I've noticed this across all the major ad platforms: Instagram, Twitter, FB, etc, have all cranked up the number of ads to prop up revenues.

I stopped using IG & Twitter largely because it went from having relatively few ads to where I started seeing an ad nearly every other post. The value of the platform proportionally declined significantly and I no longer bother using them.

Google is slowly becoming useless (even with an ad blocker) because you have to hack search terms in order to get useful results. For example, I append words like "wiki" or "reddit" to get results that aren't SEO'd. Search for something generic like "computer" and you can see an example of how hard it is to get information instead of ads.

It feels like ads are definitely a bubble, and I suspect the next big tech companies will not be ad based.

Re:The Google Squeeze by asdfasgasdgasdg on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @11:54AM (#21515621)
> Google is slowly becoming useless

That is not the thesis of this article. In fact, the opposite. The article claims that despite the increase in advertising, for the given exemplar (hotel search), the ads actually make Google more useful compared to the ten-blue-link baseline.

Re:The Google Squeeze by pasttense01 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:49PM (#21516200)
You can divide searches into 1. Shopping searches where you want to buy something and 2. Non shopping searches. This article is about a type of shopping search.

Lots of us have little interest in doing shopping searches on Google--we search directly on Amazon, eBay, Walmart, Target or whatever.

With respect to non-shopping searches for a huge proportion of queries the top page of results are dominated either by shopping responses or fluff articles.

Re:The Google Squeeze by squiggleblaz on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @03:44AM (#21522139)
Wow, I'm not sure it ever occurred to me to use Google for shopping. In my head it's an information search engine that is better when you search an error string than DDG, but otherwise not worth the costs. If I want to buy something, I decide "oh, this will be better on Ali Express" or something. I think there's a few specific things I've tried to buy, but it really ends up just being a longcut to the place I was searching anyway.
Re:The Google Squeeze by muddi900 on Monday November 18, 2019 @12:27AM (#21562124)
I have had great success using Google for shopping. Their paid price comparison results are better than most organic ones.
Re:The Google Squeeze by ignoramous on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @05:49AM (#21522754)
And Google wants to know what you're searching to shop for, as its better for their ads business. They do seem to have trackers on most e-commerce websites, so they might know anyway.
Re:The Google Squeeze by asdfasgasdgasdg on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:19PM (#21517153)
The guidelines say "Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." IMO it's not useful or interesting to repeat the generic, endlessly belabored complaint that Google results are getting less relevant. It's much more interesting to discuss the article on its merits.
Re:The Google Squeeze by Guest42 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:51PM (#21517455)
The response is related and non-tangential. The “endlessly belabored” argument that results are less relevant is an important discussion with many merits. It is true that there is value in shopping results and information results. However, there is a more optimal balance between the 2 that will improve the usefulness of the internet for many users.
Re:The Google Squeeze by asdfasgasdgasdg on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:19PM (#21517710)
Does this discussion have merit? It's hard for me to tell. Nobody provides any details. There are no exemplar queries where someone suggests a better result. Nobody is saying anything that isn't said in every other discussion where Google search results are even tangentially mentioned. You've got the classic DDG shoutout. The classic "Google used to be better" subthread. The classic "But if you type in specific terms" tree. And a nice tangent on tracking just for completeness sake.

You could copy and paste this thread into the comments of any other article about Google search in the past few months and it would be no less relevant. Only, you needn't bother, since this discussion gets rehashed every single time, so there's already a discussion with much the same points as this one, and much the same value, already there. That's a good sign that the discussion is lacking the nuance that I always hope to find here. But what's actually happening is a complete lack of engagement with what was ultimately a pretty interesting article.

Re:The Google Squeeze by squiggleblaz on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @03:48AM (#21522166)
> Does this discussion have merit? It's hard for me to tell.

In that case, why try to make a judgement? If you can't make a judgement but it irritates you, why not just spend your time on another page? Surely a discussion about the discussion is always going to be less useful and relevant than the discussion that organically develops out of the same topic.

If the heading is "Google search", asdfasgasdgasdg could just spend their time elsewhere.

The fact that fifty thousand people have already had their say doesn't mean that the next hundred people who want to have their say is a subset of the first, and thus may benefit. And, moreover, if people keep writing articles about related topics, related discussion is going to keep coming up.

Re:The Google Squeeze by asdfasgasdgasdg on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @09:16AM (#21524290)
Thanks for the advice, but I prefer to use what small influence I have to encourage better and more thoughtful discussions.
Re:The Google Squeeze by Pxtl on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:05PM (#21517018)
Because the ten-blue-link results are trash.

And counterexample - every time I look up a hotel, I want to go to their actual homepage because I find the aggregators often intermingle pictures of the different room types and I want to see what the actual actual suite I'm booking looks like.

And Google buries the actual hotel homepage pretty deep, in my experience.

Re:The Google Squeeze by dreamcompiler on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:35PM (#21517289)
I've also found I could get the same deal or better when I book directly with the hotel. And when I check in, if I've booked with a third party booker, it's impossible to change the reservation at the hotel itself, and things that are normally free (like wifi or a ride to the airport) suddenly cost extra. Many hotels hate the outside bookers and either lose money on those bookings or don't make as much, and they're happy to split the booker's fee with the customer who books directly.
Re:The Google Squeeze by AJ007 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:54PM (#21517484)
If people realized how much money of their hotel booking was going to Google and the OTAs, they would piss their pants. It is an excessive, useless, and largely avoidable tax.

* also note it’s driven substantial consolidation in the hotel industry, because big companies like Marriott can just rake in their direct bookings.

Re:The Google Squeeze by st1ck on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @12:03PM (#21526403)
You'd think that by walking in or calling you could get the price around 10% below booking.com or Agoda, but it's almost never the case from my experience booking budget accommodation in Europe & Asia. Most of time they offer standard rate which is _higher_ than what you'd find on OTA.
Re:The Google Squeeze by m_eiman on Thursday November 14, 2019 @02:07AM (#21533421)
Booking (iirc) forbids hotels from having better deals on their own site than what they offer on booking.
Re:The Google Squeeze by naravara on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:39PM (#21517914)
It's even worse when you just want to find a menu for a restaurant.
Re:The Google Squeeze by squiggleblaz on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @03:51AM (#21522189)
Alas for this task, Google seems best. Just take a look at the photos of the place in Google Maps. The menu is usually there.
Re:The Google Squeeze by Galaxeblaffer on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:34PM (#21516029)
It's becoming better for finding products and other stuff to spend your money on. Digging out real information on topics is what is becoming useless
Re:The Google Squeeze by squiggleblaz on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @03:52AM (#21522194)
Welcome to the free market!
Re:The Google Squeeze by shostack on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @12:30AM (#21521383)
What's fascinating to me is how Reddit is arguably at the tail end of "the pack" of major publishers. They struggle to monetize, yet possess one of the few remaining bastions of decent quality reviews depending on what you're looking for.

Arguably this is because there is still "full" organic reach possible, and the users govern the subreddits. If there were to be a major throttling of organic reach such that the only way to get prominent visibility on Reddit was to pay based on reach, or mods lost the ability to control and curate their communities, I wouldn't be surprised to see Reddit drop in quality and user base.

Re:The Google Squeeze by sireat on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @02:05AM (#21521741)
Anecdotally one gets better quality reviews using `foobar review site:reddit.com` than any other method.

You can weed out the fake reviews on reddit better than say on amazon because of other users.

Just use some common sense and if you see an echo chamber subreddit then take the review with some salt.

Re:The Google Squeeze by piva00 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @05:11AM (#21522577)
I've been doing this for years now, it works even better for niche products (or not massively produced). The last example was the Smarthalo, a friend of mine asked me what I thought about it as I'm into biking, I had seen some ads and their Kickstarter campaign but didn't give much thought, the only way I could find reliable user reviews was by appending "site:reddit.com" after my Google Search as the other user reviews would be from Amazon or other e-commerce websites that I really don't trust.
Re:The Google Squeeze by ralfd on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @05:58AM (#21522816)
Absolutely!

Yesterday I wanted to buy some inear headphones on Amazon and the user experience on the site itself is abysmal with countless no name China wares and suspect reviews.

A search on fitness related subreddits what people actually use and how (water damage through sweating seems common) was much more useful.

Re:The Google Squeeze by maest on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @03:22AM (#21522035)
I wouldn't say Reddit is all organic nowadays. Plenty of accounts gaming the website.
Re:The Google Squeeze by shostack on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @02:49PM (#21528647)
My point is they don't (or can't with the current setup) play games by restricting how many people see your post unless you pay up ala some other well-known sites.
Re:The Google Squeeze by maest on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @02:51PM (#21528672)
My bad - I saw 'organic reach' and thought you meant advertisers organically reaching customers.

But you meant users reaching content.

Re:The Google Squeeze by muddi900 on Monday November 18, 2019 @12:26AM (#21562117)
Odd, I have only encountered clear SEO spam from smaller companies. It is very well disguised but just looking at a users history reveals that the review was spam.
Re:The Google Squeeze by laurentdc on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:35PM (#21517290)
Same. When I search for a product I always append reddit e.g. "what video card 4k 120hz reddit" because otherwise the search results are flooded with fake comparison pages spamming Amazon referral links
Re:The Google Squeeze by int_19h on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @04:53AM (#21522495)
I do a lot of product research on Google, and in the past few months I have noticed a significant and worrying reduction in quality of search results for detailed queries, for two reasons.

Firstly, Google seems to be far more aggressive about using synonyms, and it's almost always done in a way that broadens a query. So, for example, if you search for a particular brand of some kind of product, the results that come up are often about such products in general (you can see which word got substituted, because they highlight the found keywords in bold).

Worse yet, it's also aggressively dropping specific words from the query (they show up stricken through under the result links). It used to be that it would do that when your search wouldn't even get a pageful of results - but now it gets to a ridiculous point where I make a two-word query, and the top result has one of those two dropped! And yet if you quote the word, forcing it to be there, there's no shortage of results for the more detailed query.

In practice, this means that most of my detailed Google queries end up quoting all or almost all words in them, because that's the only way I get results that I actually want, rather than a bunch of random vaguely related links. Even that doesn't seem to be 100% reliable, because it seems to sometimes ignore even the quoted words...

While I have no idea why this is going on, it's clearly not to improve search result quality. Which leaves only one hypothesis - that this is somehow related to advertising. I don't know if it's about paid search results, or preferentially treating websites that have Google ads on them, or just generally steering me towards online stores rather than e.g. forums (where the quote-forced detailed queries usually lead). But either way, this is worrying, because search has always been so fundamental to what Google is - and if that is being twisted so badly now, what can I expect from other products?

Re:The Google Squeeze by type0 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @09:31PM (#21532266)
> Which leaves only one hypothesis - that this is somehow related to advertising.

Of course it is, they'll earn more if it takes you longer to search and you are more likely to click on one of the ads. I think it's as simple as that.

Re:The Google Squeeze by trevor-e on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:40PM (#21517927)
FWIW, in this case it might be better to use `site:reddit.com` for more accurate results. I tried your example and it narrowed down 264k results -> 12k results, although I'm not sure how much stock should be put into that figure because after reloading the first page it went down to 93k results. ‾\_(ツ)_/‾

For both searches, the first page was largely the same just in a different order. The big difference comes on the later pages of results.

Re:The Google Squeeze by throwaway2048 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:06PM (#21517584)
I'm sure the fake subreddits with amazon referral links are a work in progress as we speak.
Re:The Google Squeeze by shostack on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @11:52PM (#21521264)
Sure, but presumably you hone your senses as to which subs are trustworthy and which are not. For many classes of queries, there are some well-established subs already. Then it is a simple matter of parsing the comments, and the signal-to-noise ratio tends to be fairly decent for lots of things still.
Re:The Google Squeeze by throwaway2048 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:52AM (#21521703)
Thats not really the issue, its obvious these crap sites are crap, the problem is them polluting google results.
Re:The Google Squeeze by zamubafoo on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @04:06PM (#21518180)
They are. If you look at /r/suggestalaptop they already have people who suggesting laptops and link with Amazon referral links. I'm half convinced that they are just bots.
Re:The Google Squeeze by Agenttin on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:06PM (#21527303)
Most subs ban Amazon referral links for this reason.
Re:The Google Squeeze by airstrike on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:28PM (#21515957)
Problem with Instagram is that even "legitimate" posts are sponsored by companies paying influencers to soft peddle their stuff.

The overlap between the HN crowd and the crowd following influencers is probably minimal, but as far as a % of the platform, I'd wager most people are going through these soft ads unwittingly.

Re:The Google Squeeze by Abishek_Muthian on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:42PM (#21516124)
Apparently, Cristiano Ronaldo makes more from Instagram posts than what he makes from soccer.

Also, instagram is supposedly the platform with highest organic conversions & so I expect instagram come up with a way to monetize this off-platform Ad deals if not already.

Does any country have a law telling these influencers need to inform their followers about their sponsorship? Such laws exist for affiliate marketing.

Re:The Google Squeeze by Red_Leaves_Flyy on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:19PM (#21517145)
"Does any country have a law telling these influencers need to inform their followers about their sponsorship? Such laws exist for affiliate marketing."

The U.S. does.[1]

1. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2017/04/ftc-s...

Re:The Google Squeeze by dylz on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:58PM (#21517517)
it doesn't seem to get properly enforced.
Re:The Google Squeeze by maigret on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:43PM (#21517973)
Actually there have been a couple of lawsuits in Germany that changed the practice locally: https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=12d4d756-d753...

Now most are very careful and even "overdisclose" advertising as a result (they disclose even for products they mention that they are not paid for it).

Re:The Google Squeeze by dylz on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @05:52PM (#21519119)
Even on HN I've pleasantly told people to please disclose affiliate links (that I've only found out about because I click them and uBlock blocks the page from loading completely due to malicious amounts of tracking scripts) and people get upset about it.

I wish they would overdisclose here. It does not help that on social media, lots of people think adding "#sp" is enough.

Re:The Google Squeeze by Red_Leaves_Flyy on Thursday November 14, 2019 @04:48PM (#21539843)
If they're American, merely adding #sp is an open and shut violation. That should be reminded of the consequences of failing to disclose
Re:The Google Squeeze by im3w1l on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:47PM (#21516168)
I'd argue that instagram posts are a way to monetize his soccer playing, so that money come from soccer too if you look at it like that.
Re:The Google Squeeze by dwoozle on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @12:50AM (#21521452)
A lot of his soccer salary is advertising money too. Some team revenue comes from ticket sales and merchandise sales but much more comes from TV rights which are funded by advertisements.
Re:The Google Squeeze by baobabKoodaa on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @05:51PM (#21530604)
Finland has a law like this.
Re:The Google Squeeze by Abishek_Muthian on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @08:49PM (#21532015)
Influencers in Finland who post on Instagram say this post is sponsored by X?
Re:The Google Squeeze by thrower123 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @10:29PM (#21520950)
Instagram is quite a trashfire these days.

There's a couple handfuls of people I know personally who still use it as all-photo Facebook, and just post pictures of their dogs, or their kids, or their lunch.

Everything else is wall-to-wall hustling. Explicitly sponsored ads, business accounts promoting their stuff, meme pages that are hawking stuff in the comments, managed celebrity accounts, fitness models shilling supplements, and on and on and on.

Re:The Google Squeeze by cwkoss on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:05AM (#21521519)
Every purchase my fiance has made from an Instagram has been low quality Chinese junk. In a couple cases, we've found the exact SKU for sale on aliexpress for ~ 1/3 the price.

She doesn't buy stuff based on IG anymore.

Re:The Google Squeeze by sct202 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @11:40AM (#21526073)
It's ridiculous when some of the Instagram ads are drop shipped from China at 4x the price of AliExpress. At least relocate the product to the US for faster shipping if you're going to charge more. The fluffy soft shiba inu pillows are advertised at like $30 on instagram with 2-3 week shipping and AliExpress has the same lead time and they're $8.
Re:The Google Squeeze by alexashka on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @01:27PM (#21516618)
It may seem like a problem in isolation, but only if you ignore the alternatives.

Do you remember television or radio? How much choice did you have over the ads there? You'd literally have to sit through mass-market beer ads for minutes at a time.

With Instagram, the ads and soft-ads are oftentimes quite targeted. I get ads about theatre plays, musicals and ballet in my city. I wouldn't have found out about them otherwise - I think it's great! You can actually select an ad and say 'don't show me this stuff anymore' and provide a reason. I get to no longer see ads I don't like! Phew, that's a killer feature!

If the people you follow on instagram are generic, you get generic ads. If you follow niche markets, you get niche ads that you may be glad to find out about. Internet ads have become a reflection of sorts, if you are bothered by the ads, maybe what you're really bothered by is unfulfilled potential that the ads are a reflection of.

Your mileage may vary of course :)

Re:The Google Squeeze by twoelfer on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @01:58PM (#21516950)
I get a lot of ads from Boeing. They want to sell a military helicopter. No joke. I don’t think the targeting works all that well. (It’s Twitter, not insta though)
Re:The Google Squeeze by cm2012 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:29PM (#21517800)
Fb and insta targeting is massively better than twitter
Re:The Google Squeeze by eitland on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:29PM (#21517241)
I too experience better ads on Instagram (relevant positions with local companies, software I actually guve a second look etc) than on Google (until this summer they were dead set on showing me ads for scammy dating sites whenever I disabled my ad blocker despite the fact that I put ib the effort to tell them multiple times it was irrelevant.)
Re:The Google Squeeze by ckastner on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:09PM (#21517059)
> I stopped using IG & Twitter largely because it went from having relatively few ads to where I started seeing an ad nearly every other post.

The increase appears to be dramatic. I signed up for YouTube Premium long ago simply because I couldn't stand the occasional ad anymore. I recently was at a friend's, and I wanted to show him a particular cooking video that I liked, on his iPad. It was a 16-minute video and it was interrupted three times by an ad. mid-video. Unbearable.

The thing is, through Premium, I was actually looking forward to discovering new music with the YouTube Music app. Was I wrong. The recommendations are crap. They are repetitive to the point of nausea. I have a few hundred "liked" songs, but the recommendations are heavily skewed towards a few, mostly recently "liked" songs.

This has actually lead to me dreading marking a song as "liked", as it inevitably leads to this repetition and, much worse, to unending recommendations of the same artist's other songs, even if I "dislike" every. single. one. of. them.

Re:The Google Squeeze by anon73044 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:02PM (#21517545)
I'm sorry, but paying money to YouTube/Google to get around their adds and garbage recommendations seems too much like rewarding them for bad behavior.
Re:The Google Squeeze by 0xffff2 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:14PM (#21517659)
As opposed to what? YouTube is supposed to just host videos for you for free?
Re:The Google Squeeze by naravara on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @04:16PM (#21518260)
>As opposed to what? YouTube is supposed to just host videos for you for free?

I think there is a median point between this dichotomy where YouTube comes up with ways to collect revenue that don't depend on maintaining an adversarial relationship with their users.

If the ads make you feel like they're specifically there to make you hate them enough to pay, that's basically playing highwayman. You can't blame people for thinking that's distasteful. They could have less intrusive systems for advertising or just make it subscription only, patron/donation based like Wikipedia, or some hybrid of multiple models.

Re:The Google Squeeze by 0xffff2 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @05:23PM (#21518854)
>If the ads make you feel like they're specifically there to make you hate them enough to pay

That's inherently subjective though. About the only way for a paid product to not make me feel that way would be to keep showing me ads after I pay up, which is not what we're after. On the other hand, people have claimed on HackerNews before that they just plain don't mind ads. Where do you draw the line that says that they're specifically there to make you pay up? It's intellectually dishonest to both complain about ads and complain when a company offers a reasonable alternative to those ads.

> They could have less intrusive systems for advertising or just make it subscription only, patron/donation based like Wikipedia, or some hybrid of multiple models.

They have that. Subscription only makes discoverability (YouTube's primary strength) far more difficult. AFAIK YouTube does offer paid channel subscriptions, but for whatever reason Patreon seems to have captured that market far better.

Re:The Google Squeeze by oska on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @04:03AM (#21522259)
I agree with you. I'm totally fine with services charging subscriptions but not if the subscription is a way to turn advertising off. Push advertising is basically evil in my opinion and you don't get absolved from the evil you are doing by allowing people an out by paying to turn the ads off.
Re:The Google Squeeze by TaylorAlexander on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:15PM (#21517107)
I’ve had good luck with Spotify recommendations! I’m finding a lot of cool music.
Re:The Google Squeeze by shostack on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @12:33AM (#21521394)
Unfortunately Spotify is near useless to me now as it is inundated with kids songs polluting my lists, and the occasional listen to a song outside of the norm for me somehow also does the same thing.

They REALLY need a way to easily say "exclude this genre entirely from my recommendations" or from specific auto-lists. I'd also love a way to reset the learning features or specify more clearly "only learn from these playlists."

Re:The Google Squeeze by ckastner on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:20PM (#21517164)
That echoes what a I've heard from a few others.

It just bugs me that an entity with such a forte in data mining can err that much, to the point where they're losing a losing customer to the competition.

Re:The Google Squeeze by spats1990 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @08:00PM (#21520092)
The feature Spotify has where artists curate their own playlists is also amazing in my experience. (for new music discovery)
Re:The Google Squeeze by blaser-waffle on Thursday November 14, 2019 @10:21AM (#21536039)
Indeed. Big fan of the Arcade Fire ones
Re:The Google Squeeze by bobviolier on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:35PM (#21517864)
Only the non-ads on YouTube are already worth every penny. Especially the family plan.
Re:The Google Squeeze by Koremat6666 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @04:37PM (#21518432)
> Google is slowly becoming useless (even with an ad blocker) because you have to hack search terms in order to get useful results. For example, I append words like "wiki" or "reddit" to get results that aren't SEO'd. Search for something generic like "computer" and you can see an example of how hard it is to get information instead of ads.

When you say useless does that mean you think the gap between Google and (other engine of your choice) is narrowing ? Do you see yourself switching to say Bing for better search results anytime soon ?

Re:The Google Squeeze by aaroncruz12452 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @04:41PM (#21518470)
Yeah. I noticed that too even my site https://appen.com/services/data-collection/ got affected
Re:The Google Squeeze by thaumasiotes on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @04:53AM (#21522498)
> Search for something generic like "computer" and you can see an example of how hard it is to get information instead of ads.

I tried this. The wikipedia page for "computer" was the second result. Above that, oddly, a store page for "computers" at Best Buy. Above that, some suggested questions like "what is a computer?" ("A computer is a machine or device that performs processes, calculations and operations based on instructions provided by a software or hardware program.") And above that, at the top, several advertisements and a map of where the advertising locations are.

I don't understand what you think should come up in a search for the word "computer". I already know what a computer is, and I think it's safe to say that's true of almost everyone using the internet.

Re:The Google Squeeze by swtrs on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @01:26PM (#21516614)
>Search for something generic like "computer" and you can see an example of how hard it is to get information instead of ads.

Panel for computer sales at top. A maps menu showing computer shops near me. A Bestbuy link. Another panel for computer sales. Walmart, amazon, newegg. A wiki. And another sales panel.

Re:The Google Squeeze by kevin_thibedeau on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @01:51PM (#21516882)
More damning. The only non-commerce related link is the one for Wikipedia. On DDG mobile, there is one Best Buy link and everything else is a site delivering some form of information on the topic.
Re:The Google Squeeze by prepend on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:35PM (#21517867)
I think lots of ad buys aren’t very smart. Companies seem to be pumping too much money into ads because they have money.

Last week I saw an SAP ad over a twitch stream showing on a wall monitor in an esports bar. That’s either the smartest targeted ad ever (3 out of our table were software types who would be involved in an SAP purchase decision), or just some campaign manager clicking a box that means “put my ad anywhere you want.” The next ad was for twix.

I think if we face a downturn where all of a sudden there’s not money and smart people are trying to spend on ads that have real return, these platforms will really get slammed. I’m not sure what multiplier it is. But I think their leverage in the “BS ad” domain will be more than 1x whatever the downturn is.

Re:The Google Squeeze by Proziam on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @05:54PM (#21519139)
I get targeted ads all the time from big consulting companies. It's not about SAP purchasing decisions, they want people to pursue SAP as a career option. In my case, their targeting is right on the money - I just have a better job at the moment
Re:The Google Squeeze by puranjay on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @12:43AM (#21521422)
I live in India and I get ads all the time for products and services that aren't even available in my country. Like real estate brokers in Texas and car dealerships in Ohio and property investments in Abu Dhabi. I'm not using a VPN and haven't mucked around with my location settings.

Some of the worst targeted ads I've ever seen are on Reddit and Imgur

Re:The Google Squeeze by ufuft on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @02:05AM (#21521743)
On Facebook, spending 5 dollars on promoting a post in India/Pakistan will get you a ton of likes and comments (some of them not great). It's a very easy and cheap way to make your post/ad look more legit or popular, faking "social proof"
Re:The Google Squeeze by cobookman on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:23PM (#21515905)
Startups can disrupt because the major public companies need to show growth for w-street. If there's no growth then the ask is on profits, which cause the company to start gutting teams.

meanwhile a startup can focus on building a great product, sometimes while not needing to be profitable.

Amazon.com took advantage of this, with Jeff Bezos famous quote of, "Your margin is my opportunity".

Re:The Google Squeeze by on_and_off on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @04:15PM (#21518254)
Just searched for computers

First I get a large map card with a couple of stores with computer in their names nearby. I don't know how useful that is since I don't have a real search intent.

Next I get the computer page for best buy (I am in the USA) and the computer wikipedia article.

I have just tried duck duck go. I just get a full page of computers on best buy, amazon, etc

I don't think the google results are any worse than the ddg ones here.

If anything, trying to match with a 2 nearby places which are partial matches (computer in their names) is relevant.

And at least it gives me the wikipedia article. On ddg, it can be seen on the right side widget or at the bottom of the second page

Re:The Google Squeeze by komali2 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:03PM (#21517005)
Huh, I'm realizing with your comment that I was doing that and not really aware of that. Now that I think about it, my information, depending on subject, typically comes from either reddit, wikipedia, or stackoverflow, and I just use google to find the exact page on those websites that I need.
Re:The Google Squeeze by mark_l_watson on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:26PM (#21515938)
I don't use IG, but I do both use Twitter and agree with you that the increased percentage of promoted material is a bummer. I would pay Twitter $3 to $4 per month to get a "premium" ad-free account. I wonder if they ever considered this, and what the economics would be.
Re:The Google Squeeze by gbear605 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:32PM (#21516010)
Per https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2018/04/02/a-... they make about $7.50 per user per year, so even a dollar a month should be better
Re:The Google Squeeze by hellomyguys on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:04PM (#21517008)
Yeah, but there's a good chance the parent poster is worth more the $7.50 ARPU to Twitter. They can also probably increase their ARPU more than they can increase a hypothetical subscription cost, which is why these comments about ad-based companies providing a subscription service aren't actually these no-brainer ideas.

Now with that being said, it would be nice if companies cared more about having sustainable businesses with healthy, non-intrusive user experiences than revenue growth.

Re:The Google Squeeze by lotsofpulp on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @09:30PM (#21520681)
The people willing and able to pay to opt out of ads are worth much more than $7.50.
Re:The Google Squeeze by mark_l_watson on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:37PM (#21516065)
+1, thanks for the link.

Since the original article is more about Google, I would like to say that while Google's paid gmail+office is a compelling product that I liked paying for until I realized that there was no way I could merge services bought with my "free" Google account with the paid account. I think this is a lesson for Twitter if they ever do offer a paid service: integrate well with the old free account or convert old account and history smoothly.

Re:The Google Squeeze by nkingsy on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:34PM (#21516038)
The general response to this seems to be that people who would pay for subscriptions are the highest value ad targets and worth significantly more than 3-4/m?
Re:The Google Squeeze by apazzolini on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @01:51PM (#21516888)
I'd love to see some data on this.

I'm worth literally zero to Twitter; I use an adblocker everywhere, and when that fails, not only do I never click on an ad, I purposefully scroll as quickly past them as I can.

I'd pay a couple bucks a month to remove that hassle.

Re:The Google Squeeze by mark_l_watson on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:38PM (#21516097)
Good point. That probably gets us up to the $3 to $4/month price point, or much more.
Re:The Google Squeeze by haekjre on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @11:51AM (#21515595)
Do you even notice the instagram ads? I'm so blind to them while I flick through I can't even tell if they are for a bank or for clothes or whatever.

> Search for something generic like "computer" and you can see an example of how hard it is to get information instead of ads.

To be fair, "computer" is such a generic term, I can't even imagine what you expect to see when you search for it.

Re:The Google Squeeze by zwieback on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @11:57AM (#21515650)
Isn't that the idea? The Instagram ads are supposed to look like the posts you're looking at and hopefully your lizard brain stores the ad image as you scroll by.
Re:The Google Squeeze by wutbrodo on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:41PM (#21516115)
I wonder to what extent this is a function of how one uses Instagram: ie, perhaps the parent comment's feed contains posts superficially similar to ads, while the composition of yours makes ads stand out in content and caption (my experience is closer to yours on Twitter and upon occasionally IG use).

Tangentially, I find IG's place in the social media panoply to be fascinating. It's the only service that everyone seems to feel positively about: it doesn't inspire the loathing that Facebook and Twitter does or the mockery that Snapchat does (even by their users).

But watching people use Instagram is the closest I see people coming to the popular addict/junkie metaphor and the stereotype of smartphones and social media turning us into slackjawed automatons in thrall to a colorful Skinner Box. It's really eerie.

Re:The Google Squeeze by behindsight on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @12:02AM (#21521293)
> It's the only service that everyone seems to feel positively about: it doesn't inspire the [...] mockery that Snapchat does (even by their users)

Well there is actually some mockery about the lengths some people go to alter their perceived appearance[0].

0: https://www.reddit.com/r/Instagramreality/

Re:The Google Squeeze by chrisco255 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @01:00PM (#21516331)
I've bought several products as a result of Instagram ads. They are usually related to companies I follow or interests I have, like camping or some household goods. But I don't hate the ads. They are easy to scroll past and I don't have to engage with them. They don't seem too intrusive and sometimes they are interesting products to look at.
Re:The Google Squeeze by mynegation on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:55PM (#21516267)
I do not notice Instagram ads for a simple reason that I am yet to see a single one. It probably has to do with whom I follow: a very limited number of people I personally know, no brands, no influencers, no company grams etc. As a software developer I sometimes wonder what are the thresholds or criteria in Instagram systems to show ads.
Re:The Google Squeeze by brenden2 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @11:52AM (#21515611)
I don't actually use Instagram anymore but when I did I definitely noticed the ads. They were always irrelevant, annoying, and obnoxious.
Re:The Google Squeeze by runn1ng on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:57PM (#21516287)
I’m wishing there was a search engine that was not filled with ads that does not suck.

And don’t give me duckduckgo, that one regularly ranks spam domains and typo domains higher than the real results

Re:The Google Squeeze by sl1ck731 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:47PM (#21518012)
Spent the last couple days trying to gather information for an LDAP/AD/Samba project for a multi-tenant MSP setup. Literally the top 3 or 4 results of every query were from Jumpcloud and just pure, low-effort blog posts that you can just tell were SEO driven to get them on the top of every keyword to sell you a product that isn't even really the same thing.

I just discovered the "reddit"/"hackernews" trick while doing this for actual content I want to read.

As far as I'm concerned I will never recommend Jumpcloud or any other service I find doing this.

Re:The Google Squeeze by tripzilch on Thursday November 14, 2019 @09:08AM (#21535417)
I made an Instagram account for the first time a few months ago, the first two weeks it had zero ads. It was just long enough to draw me in, if it had had that amount of ads when I signed up, I might have chosen a different platform to display my computer generated art.

On the plus side, it has been very cool chatting with people from all over the world doing the same things, and getting compliments (like, actual comments, not just likes).

Re:The Google Squeeze by thewarrior on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:18PM (#21515854)
I'm sure things like this are A/B tested to the moon and back to see the exact impact on usage.
Re:The Google Squeeze by netwanderer3 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @04:32PM (#21518383)
I'm not seeing what you described at all. Google search results are still serving me quite well personally, at least for the information that I was looking for.

Google has recently launched one of its biggest updates (BERT) which should improve the understanding of your keywords tremendously. By utilizing the power of NLP (Natural Language Processing) technology, it will now be able to provide more relevant and accurate search results for everyone.

You can read more about the update via the company's blog: https://www.blog.google/products/search/search-language-unde...

Re:The Google Squeeze by Waterluvian on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:07PM (#21517590)
I noticed this big time with Twitch.tv. There's now ads I cannot avoid or skip all over the place.

I'm also finally noticing ads when watching YouTube on Chromecast. There used to be zero ads (which was a little confusing) but now there's ads.

Re:The Google Squeeze by NotATroll on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @04:37PM (#21518430)
> I append words like "wiki" or "reddit" to get results that aren't SEO'd

I'm not sure what you expect. I mean, yeah. I have to put OSRS in any search for "murder mystery" to get the result I wanted. But that's not a huge deal.

Who searches for generic "computer" that isn't a 70 year old lady probably looking for a new computer. Google in that scenario is just serving up what they're most likely looking for.

And heck, it's not like the wikipedia link was that far down. It was under a couple of store links and then bam. Wiki for computers.

Re:The Google Squeeze by hyperpallium on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:16PM (#21517681)
"forum" still helps too
Re:The Google Squeeze by otabdeveloper4 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @12:58AM (#21521487)
'Ads' are not a bubble, don't be silly. That's like saying that 'money' is a bubble because of the subprime crisis.

That said, yes, there is definitly a downward spiral where placing more ads drives your viewership away, which in turn lowers your revenue and makes you place more ads, which drives away viewership, etc.

This isn't really a problem with 'ads', this is a generic problem of management driving a thriving property into the ground in the name of short-term profit.

Re:The Google Squeeze by buboard on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @12:54PM (#21516241)
It's not becoming useless (what's better overall?) but increasingly more difficult to use. It's not the inflation of the content of the web causing it, it IS google (e.g. they make anyting that is > a few years old almost invisible). I don't know what is the endgame of this , though. There is clearly a failure of competition here, it is disheartening to use another engine and get the same results
Re:The Google Squeeze by hesarenu on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @11:27PM (#21521174)
"Search for something generic like "computer" and you can see an example of how hard it is to get information instead of ads"

I see ads panel for computers, followed by wiki, videos about computer, questions, map with computer shop and list of links related to computer terminology.

I don't use ad blocker. Still get relavent results.

Re:The Google Squeeze by baroffoos on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @05:33PM (#21518949)
I have been hearing people talk about google results becoming useless regularly but it never made sense to me until you mentioned the part about adding wiki and reddit to terms which I do all the time to get real information and not paid blog articles by people who just read the box of the product they are reviewing.
Re:The Google Squeeze by viburnum on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @02:32PM (#21517272)
A friend who’s a translator told me he uses every kind of ad block, VPN, and language settings and it makes Google basically usable again.

I’ve noticed that I use Google a lot less now because all the ads and baloney stress me out. Turns out a lot of the stuff I used to search for isn’t that important.

Re:The Google Squeeze by swiley on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @08:54PM (#21520454)
Holy cow I thought you were exaggerating! Apart from a single Wikipedia article near the bottom every result for the search “computer” is an ad!! Not even a bad article full of SEO crap but a straight up ad!
Re:The Google Squeeze by tinyhouse on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:43PM (#21517980)
I don't use IG so cannot comment. I do use Twitter. I haven't noticed significantly more ads but one thing I dislike about Twitter is that they make the ads appear like normal posts.
Re:The Google Squeeze by mcnichol on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:33PM (#21517848)
I have been imagining a plugin that would automatically append '- {criteria}' to all my searches.

#1 in my list would be anything from w3 domain. God bless their souls but that thing is the SEO plague

Re:The Google Squeeze by 0x00000000 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @05:07PM (#21518692)
Fun fact, search result ads ignore “-term”. It is so infuriating trying to get away from some SEO bullshit only to have the first 5 results be ads for the thing you are explicitly trying to filter out.
Re:The Google Squeeze by perseusprime11 on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:13PM (#21517655)
I see an ad every two minutes of video on youtube. It has become very hard for me to watch anything on Youtube.
Re:The Google Squeeze by vocatus_gate on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @05:08PM (#21518700)
Install uBlock Origin, a plugin for Chrome and Firefox, and enjoy never seeing an ad on YouTube again. Takes like 3 seconds to install.
Re:The Google Squeeze by FussyZeus on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @03:46PM (#21518008)
Don't forget having to add "-pinterest" to literally any image search.