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Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by krylon on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:07PM (#9459788)
Ever since Nadella took over at Microsoft, such news items are becoming more and more frequent. Ten years ago, my first reaction at such a headline would have been to check my calendar if it's April 1st.

Microsoft has come a long way from the company that everybody loved to hate. IMHO, they still have a long way ahead of them, but it's nice to see they seem to be serious about it.

With Ballmer at the helm, I had the impression he didn't really know how to handle the rise of mobile devices and cloud services. Nadella seems determined to really change Microsoft from the old Windows-and-Office monopoly to something new.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by brudgers on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:49PM (#9461663)
By design, Nadella is getting credit by design for 'overnight changes' many years in the making. Windows 10 reflects the strategic decisions embodied in Vista. Ballmer owned enough stock that along with Gates' backing Microsoft could produce a largely incompatible new version of the Windows OS and Wall Street could like it or lump it. Gates and Ballmer have been divesting Microsoft shares and the new company is beholden to the "What did you do this quarter?" analyst's mindset. Before he left, Ballmer set the course and ensured there was a tick tock product development cycle.

Ballmer wasn't an idiot. It's not as if he didn't see the changing landscape. He left the company in a position to shape the future.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by NicoJuicy on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:25PM (#9461916)
Indeed, Nadella is an opensource guy that had the chance to grow during Ballmer. While Microsoft (during Ballmer) had a slow change (going more opensource) from the bottom-to-top, there has been a faster change now from top-to-bottom. I remember Scott Hanselman, Scott Guthrie and Phil Haack (now at Github) during Ballmer as opensource contributors.

Ballmer allowed opensource during his leadership, but employees would be more "targetted" when it's not the right direction and it hasn't has "intermediate"/"fast" results... It's a much slower progress.

I believe Nadella has a lot of thanks for the change that Microsoft made before he stepped up and "received" the fame. There was a short release afterwards of his stepup with a Office version for iOS and Android, you just don't do that within the month.

Some things he did within the first 12 months:

- Bought Nokia ( they already worked very together closely, this was probably been going on for years )

- Office for iOS and Android ( was created during Ballmer, but probably got approval during Nadella)

- Opensource .Net ( opensource started with Asp.Net MVC 2, which wasn't an all-in though, i think of it as a "test" internally)

- Cloudobile - connecting mobile with the cloud ;) ( this is definatly more Nadella's style, coming from Azure)

But it isn't all "that good", a lot of people have been layed off ( approx. 18.000 ). While Ballmer's approach is very "profitable" and "evil", i do believe that Nadella's approach is more in the line of "more penetration", "cheaper prices" ( free version of Office eg.), being more open... It does come at a cost ( i hope no one blames me for mentioning this ). I do suppose those 18.000 people where mostly freelancers, but i'm not sure.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by st2p on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @11:18PM (#9463157)
Just to clarify, Microsoft bought the mobile phones division from Nokia, not Nokia itself.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by zaidf on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:36PM (#9462541)
The layoffs come at a cost to the people who lost the jobs, not as much as a cost to Nadella or Microsoft. In fact, layoffs are usually a positive for the company. Of course, I'd also argue that in the longterm, layoffs are a positive for most of the people laid off.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mathrawka on Thursday April 30, 2015 @12:12AM (#9463314)
Have you ever been laid off? Why was it a positive for you?
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by scrabble on Thursday April 30, 2015 @01:15AM (#9463453)
I have been laid off. In the end it was positive for me.

I left a job where I facilitated meetings to discuss major incidents and tracked action items and wrote long form reports. I decided to use this opportunity to instead move to a job I really loved where being laid off sounded far less likely.

I became a software developer. Finally took charge to do something professionally that I'd done for a couple decades as a hobbyist. Huge positive. Completely the right move. Never would have happened if I hadn't been laid off.

That said, I recognize it's not a positive for everyone in that position.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mathrawka on Monday May 04, 2015 @08:09PM (#9490105)
It sounds like you just needed the right motivation to improve your quality of life. I think that is called "tough love" and it doesn't always work for everyone. But I'm glad to hear that you turned what is usually a negative into such a positive!
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by shliachtx on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @09:38PM (#9462856)
Nadella didn't buy Nokia. The deal was already announced before he became CEO. He was actually strongly opposed to the idea initially.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by blowski on Thursday April 30, 2015 @12:18AM (#9463326)
> He was actually strongly opposed to the idea initially.

Source? What changed his mind?

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by shliachtx on Thursday April 30, 2015 @12:35AM (#9463384)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-03-05/microsoft-...

Either way, Nadella didn't orchestrate the Nokia deal, Ballmer did.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mattlutze on Thursday April 30, 2015 @03:23AM (#9463713)
Nadella did have a few softballs lined up for him, but they were likely no more than a few years old. Don't overestimate what can be done in two years, but don't underestimate what can be done in three. Let's not paint Ballmer as an Ozymandias, though, secretly architecting the salvation of the company for 10 years while on the face it looked like they were teetering toward annihilation.

You're right, he wasn't an idiot; he was a well-educated and successful executive that made strategic decisions informed by 80's and 90's business thought and practice. Half a decade earlier he'd have done wonders. But in emerging technology markets those decisions cost Microsoft its industry superpower status.

In tablets, mobile that cost Microsoft early market dominance and possibly locked the company out of future hopes at regaining their title.

In Web servers, numbers from Netcraft[1] last summer showed that since Windows Server 2008 essentially what had been a healthy uptick turned disastrous for Microsoft's share of active web properties (half way down the page), and over the last 15 years a steady decline in Microsoft's market share in traffic volume handled.

1: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2014/02/03/february-2014-w...

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by frik on Thursday April 30, 2015 @10:44AM (#9465344)
"Microsoft’s most recent growth in hostnames since mid-2013 has, for the most part, been caused by a large number of Chinese linkfarms (泛站群). The sites in question provide advertising for gambling sites, online product listings, and normally make use of affiliate schemes. Yet they are hosted in the USA, on generic TLDs such as .com and .net to bypass China’s TLD and internet content provider (ICP) license requirements. Unusually, each linkfarm makes use of a reasonably large number of domains and IP addresses, presumably making them harder for search engines to evade. This would normally be cost prohibitive for this kind of activity, however hosting and domain packages can be found advertised on auction sites specifically for this purpose, with packages of (random/unspecified) .com domains available for as little as ¥17 (~ £2 / $3) each, guaranteed to remain yours for at least a month. It is not clear why IIS has been chosen for these sites, however it does have a considerably higher market share (for all of our metrics) in China compared to worldwide - for example 59% of domains hosted in China use IIS compared to just 29% worldwide."

source: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2014/07/31/july-2014-web-s...

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by hyperliner on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:57PM (#9461729)
Your comment is spot on. People don't look under the covers to realize this kind of change simply cannot happen over night or "because there is a new captain."

More specifically, your "By design" start is common in these kinds of managed transitions: you want the new leader to come in with tail wind.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by vorg on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:25PM (#9461909)
> Windows 10 reflects the strategic decisions embodied in Vista

Hope you mean "embodied in Windows 8". I still remember the day I replaced my Vista PC with one running Windows 7, and wondering why the OS was booting so fast. I doubt "Vista" was strategic in any way, more incompetent management, but would agree "Windows 8" had strategic considerations behind it.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by brudgers on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:49PM (#9462067)
Vista broke with DOS and 16bit code. It elevated security. It required better hardware. It moved x64 toward the mainstream. The architecture of the OS was brought forward a decade.

Tick.

Windows 7 was a refinement of Vista.

Tock.

Windows 8 was a new interface and a step toward multi platform, e.g. ARM.

Tick.

Windows 10 is a full on multiplatform assault.

Tock.

Running a big company is nontrivial. Microsoft's management has never been incompetent. The company has always been very profitable.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by justin66 on Thursday April 30, 2015 @02:01AM (#9463544)
> Vista broke with DOS and 16bit code.

This is completely wrong in a couple of ways.

Vista popularized 64-bit Windows, and 16-bit WoW (responsible for running 16 bit Windows programs) never made it to 64-bit Windows. This was true for the earlier Windows XP 64-bit, and it has been true for every 64-bit Windows that followed. So there's always been some confusion on this point, but note: 16-bit WoW exists even today on 32-bit versions of Windows 8. Today you have to enable it explicitly, but it is available.

Also, the NT-based versions of Windows never included DOS. They were never "with" DOS such that they'd need to "break with" DOS. The last Windows that included a version of DOS was Windows ME. The last Windows that included a version of DOS which anyone ever willingly used was Windows 98.

> Windows 10 is a full on multiplatform assault.

It's a pretty modest number of platforms compared to all those supported by NT in the late nineties. Although it will probably end up running on a lot more devices...

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by brudgers on Thursday April 30, 2015 @07:30AM (#9464377)
Thanks.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by vezzy-fnord on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:07PM (#9462408)
Pretty sure that "breaking with DOS" has already been the case since NT.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by istvan__ on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:19PM (#9462465)
Depends of the definition of breaking with DOS.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by sukilot on Friday May 01, 2015 @02:32AM (#9469822)
What you say is "Tick tock" was actually "flop, recover".

The VP of Vista fled to Amazon before it was publicly released.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by julianz on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @09:18PM (#9462797)
Vista had some big changes in it, but shipped with lots of issues and had horrible driver support at the beginning. A while back I set up a laptop for aged relative with Vista plus all the service packs and fixes, and it was really fast and smooth. Very surprising.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by brudgers on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @10:55PM (#9463076)
When Vista shipped, the problem with drivers was that many manufacturers chose not to update drivers for most legacy hardware to the new, more secure driver model. The other standard complaint was with its security popups. Part of that was rough edges on the user experience design, part was just that people weren't used to thinking about security on their machines...that's changed over the past few years. And of course a lot of the complaints were because Vista was a change.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by DominikD on Thursday April 30, 2015 @02:36AM (#9463612)
Also it's not that system was throwing UAC prompts on users, applications did. Ever since XP there were rules around what files go where, how installers should behave, etc. but people chose to ignore them (because they could). When Vista started enforcing certain things, elevation dialogs happened. What made MS in the days past (app ecosystem) broke it when quality started to matter.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by tn13 on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @10:02PM (#9462923)
Yes. People who are quick to criticize Ballmer and praise Nadella do not realize that even though Ballmer was mostly into cruise control he indeed let people like Nadella lead other important efforts. None of these products seem like "overnight changes".
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by cm2187 on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @06:38PM (#9462292)
I don't know if he is an idiot but it is under his watch that someone signed off on windows 8, thinking hum, customers are going to love that.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by orionblastar on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @08:10PM (#9462652)
The problem that Ballmer made in Windows 8 and Windows RT was in making the GUI for desktops and mobile devices the same.

Steve Jobs on the other hand already learned in 2002 that the desktop GUI won't work on a mobile device and set out to create a new GUI for mobile devices that led to the iPhone and iPad that was different from the Macintosh GUI. I think Steve Jobs saw the Windows XP based tablets that Microsoft made and their Windows CE smart phones that basically used the desktop GUI and how it just didn't work out.

Microsoft has almost always bet everything on the new Windows version. It doesn't always work out for the best. Some companies still use Windows XP because their business software breaks in Vista and above because of API changes. Microsoft no longer supports XP, but it is still in use around the world.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by cm2187 on Thursday April 30, 2015 @01:35AM (#9463492)
I think it is more problematic than that. It takes only a few minutes of using Windows 8 on a desktop to realise it was a terrible idea. Like when you right click and the context menu appears at the bottom of the screen. They clearly haven't tried that with a mouse on a 4k monitor.

They reversed most of these moronic design decisions in 8.1 and the 10 preview, but they kept some (hopefully they will be fixed before they release). Like instead of having notifications (like "An update is available", "Restart is needed") appearing discretely at the bottom right of the screen they now take up the entire screen. Since Vista they should know better than their customers are trying to use their OS to do things, to work. Customers are not fascinated with the system and having the system interrupting them all the time is a terrible idea.

It doesn't take a PhD in UX to realise that.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by brudgers on Thursday April 30, 2015 @11:17AM (#9465574)
Evaluating a user interface in a few minutes makes sense for things which will be used for a few minutes...and for journalists in need of sensational headlines under deadlines. An operating system is complex and used over a long period of time. Using Windows 8 meant I had to learn something. It took a day or two to become effective. A few months to become more effective than I had been under Windows 7, and a while before I really started to get it.

That effort made learning xmonad a breeze because I accepted the idea that I would have to spend time paying the dumb tax. It turned out to be only a morning.

Emacs on the other hand....

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by cm2187 on Thursday April 30, 2015 @03:26PM (#9467097)
I don't need more than a few seconds to find that the contextual menu at the bottom of the screen was absurd. Being frustrated with it means I would try to avoid using it, go around that problem. The solution Microsoft advocated for desktop: use keyboard shortcuts!

I do not dispute that keyboard shortcuts are faster than any mouse based UI. And I am sure that you became more proficient having to go around the Win 8 hassles using the keyboard. However if the UI can only be practical if a user learns by heart all sorts of commands and shortcuts, then it is a massive failure, it defeats the very purpose of a UI, particularly a UI targeted at consumers.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by brudgers on Thursday April 30, 2015 @06:55PM (#9468153)
Consumers are not the primary target for Windows. Never has been. Microsoft is primarily a B2B company. That's why they have long support cycles. That's why they make Excel. That's why they make Visual Studio...and languages and frameworks and SQL Server and Windows Server and Exchange etc etc.

Picking tools based on first impressions, is in my opinion, a suboptimal strategy. YMMV.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by cm2187 on Friday May 01, 2015 @04:20AM (#9470113)
They are getting cornered into a corporate environment. But they used to dominate the consumer market, and windows 8 was precisely designed to reconquer this lost market share.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by beagle3 on Saturday May 02, 2015 @08:13AM (#9476780)
> It took a day or two to become effective. A few months to become more effective than I had been under Windows 7, and a while before I really started to get it.

I've been using Win8 for about 1 hour/day for the last few months. The flips between Metro and Desktop still drive me crazy. You might have learned to accept that, or to avoid those flips, but this schizoid mode of operation comes with unneeded cognitive overload for desktop work, even if you did master it.

The thing is, Win8 was optimized for Microsoft's benefit, not yours. Win8.1 gave up some of those things, because (a) it didn't provide the benefit it was optimized for -- windows phone acceptance, and (b) it did alienate a significant portion of the userbase that clang hard to their Win7.

"Using 8 meant you had to learn something", yes. But for what purpose?

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by orionblastar on Thursday April 30, 2015 @04:46PM (#9467533)
My wife and I share a laptop that runs Windows 8.1 Pro. In order to help her use it I had to install a program called Classic Start Menu that brought back the Start Menu. She could not figure out the Modern UI screen.

There used to be a book on Windows Annoyances that told how to deal with them. The most annoying thing about Windows 8/8.1 is the Windows Update and having to restart the OS in order to update and not knowing how long it is going to take and watching the "Updating 12 of 64" with the dots in a circle loop and not being able to do anything with your computer while that happens. If only Windows Update could run in the background and not need to restart the computer or if it does restart the computer it can estimate how much time is remaining of the updates.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by CamperBob2 on Thursday April 30, 2015 @02:41AM (#9463624)
Ballmer wasn't an idiot.

Sorry, but yes, the person who said this ( http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-steve-ballmer-thou... ) was, in fact, an idiot.

He should have had his walking papers from the board of directors by that Friday.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by Sammi on Thursday April 30, 2015 @04:01AM (#9463820)
I think that it's much more reasonable to assume that he was talking defensively, as he actually did see the enormous threat of ios. He sounds like a scared man there.

But both of us are just assuming.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by SmellyGeekBoy on Thursday April 30, 2015 @04:44AM (#9463937)
I'm not sure what they're getting at with the "Microsoft is building its own hardware, just like Apple." jab. Microsoft has had a hardware division since 1982!
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by sukilot on Friday May 01, 2015 @02:35AM (#9469835)
But no Windows computers before Surface.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by sqeaky on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:14PM (#9459859)
I must agree with even though I don't want to. Microsoft seems to legitimately changing its behavior.

Personally, I still want more. An open source editor would have been nice. Many good text editors are open source Vim, Emacs, Atom, Notepad++ entering this area with less community seems like an unneeded difficulty.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by jordz on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:19PM (#9459911)
This editor is built on Atom.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by AdamTReineke on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:54PM (#9460242)
From their docs: https://code.visualstudio.com/Docs

Architecturally, Visual Studio Code combines the best of web, native, and language-specific technologies. Using the GitHub Electron Shell, Code combines web technologies such as JavaScript and Node.js with the speed and flexibility of native apps. Code uses a newer, faster version of the same industrial-strength HTML-based editor that has powered the “Monaco” cloud editor, Internet Explorer's F12 Tools, and other projects. And Code uses a tools service architecture that enables it to use many of the same technologies that power Visual Studio, including Roslyn for .NET, TypeScript, the Visual Studio debugging engine, and more. In future previews, as we continue to evolve and refine this architecture, Visual Studio Code will include a public extensibility model that lets developers build and use plug-ins, and richly customize their edit-build-debug experience.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by MCRed on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:58PM (#9462114)
The Electron Shell was previously known as the Atom Shell. So part of it is Atom work.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by AdamTReineke on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:17PM (#9462458)
Fair point. I wanted to clarify the difference since "built on Atom" has a different meaning to me than "using the GitHub Electron shell". The first sounds like an extension to Atom and the second sounds like a whole new app.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by jordz on Friday May 01, 2015 @01:07PM (#9472936)
They started work on this before the Atom Shell was "Electron" and speaking to the team in Zurich before this was unveiled (about 3 months ago) they mentioned this was built on top of Atoms foundations. There is an Atom binary inside the package app and this is where my comment came from (:
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by tlianza on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @06:19PM (#9462218)
embraced and extended? [ducks]
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by lugg on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @09:14PM (#9462792)
I don't think they've extended it yet:

$ /Applications/Visual\ Studio\ Code.app/Contents/MacOS/Atom .

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by homulilly on Thursday April 30, 2015 @12:41AM (#9463398)
Can't be entirely Atom since so far it actually seems pretty responsive.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by jevgeni on Thursday April 30, 2015 @08:04AM (#9464497)
Oh, snap!
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by frik on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:34PM (#9460619)
It seems this is the predecessor: Visual Studio Online (2013): http://weblogs.asp.net/jongalloway/a-quick-look-at-the-new-v... (scroll down half way to see the screenshots and videos) So the idea and technology behind it predates Satya Nadella CEO appointment by at least 3 months.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by zaphar on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:06PM (#9460875)
MS has always had great ideas and technology waiting in the wings. The problem was always they could never ship it.

Nadella's contribution is to make it possible to ship this sort of thing. Shipping this under Ballmer would have been a miracle.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by clebio on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:16PM (#9460961)
> ... always ... waiting in the wings ... ship

This sounds like you're speaking from inside experience. I would _love_ to hear more of this back story. Seriously, to anyone, write it up.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by toyg on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:28PM (#9461052)
You just have to look at the amount of money they sunk into R&D in the last 15 years, which is public data. Nobody spends that sort of cash to simply develop simple iterative versions of established products (which Windows and Office have been ever since XP, really) or one random new gizmo (Kinect).
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by sukilot on Friday May 01, 2015 @02:37AM (#9469836)
R&D gets favorable tax treatment. Maintaining an OS, whatever it costs, is R&D.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by Intermernet on Thursday April 30, 2015 @02:30AM (#9463601)
Have a look at the list of projects here http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/ and see how many are probably going to be profitable in the next couple of decades. It's actually pretty amazing how much research Microsoft fund that seems unrelated to any of their current product lines.

I think MS Research would be a pretty amazing place to work.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by storgendibal on Thursday April 30, 2015 @06:08PM (#9467963)
MSR really is an incredible place to work, but also impossibly hard to get in. It's akin to getting a fully tenured professorship at a top-tier computer science program. Back when I was in graduate school, MSR dominated every other computer science research department in the number of SIGGRAPH papers they published each year. And that's just in graphics.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by calgoo on Thursday April 30, 2015 @03:47AM (#9463777)
If i remember correctly, Haskell is being developed in MS RD. At least they have hired the main Haskell dev, and I think he was involved in the F# dev work, including ideas from Haskell. IThis was commented on in a talk with the Erlang and Haskell devs.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by eru on Thursday April 30, 2015 @04:28AM (#9463898)
ghc, the Haskell compiler everyone uses, is developed mainly at MSR in Cambridge, UK.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by zaphar on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:20PM (#9460994)
I've never worked there but I know people who did. And anyone who follows MS Research can read between the lines. No direct experience here though so I'm the wrong person to write it up.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by johnchristopher on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:32PM (#9461084)
You could google for that minimsft blog and the `we forgot how to ship´ trend of a few years back (from Sinofsky(i?) I believe).
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by sbenario on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:32PM (#9461086)
100% true on all counts.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by UK-AL on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:59PM (#9460821)
Visual Studio Online is basically TFS online. Think github + CI + Kanban board + Issue tracking online.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by frik on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:14PM (#9460931)
It's more than that. Scroll half way down on my link above, check out the screenshots and video.

Visual Studio Code is more like an offline version of Visual Studio Online (the editor part), 2 years later.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by UK-AL on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:17PM (#9460967)
The editor is a tiny tiny tiny tiny part of VS Online.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by frik on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:25PM (#9461028)
And exactly that "not so tiny" editor is the big part of Visual Studio Code. And it is not trivial at all - it's a very complex component to get right. The editor component comes from Switzerland and is called "monaco" and one of the main reasons why the "TypeScript" language exists and why ES6 looks as it looks today.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by M8 on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:05PM (#9460357)
So it's crappy HTML and JS underneath? I was hoping for cross-platform WPF :(.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mwcampbell on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:33PM (#9461087)
Agreed on the crappiness of the web stack for this application. But WPF isn't necessarily better. Case in point: a Bible study program where one's choice of video card actually mattered, at least in 2009 (see http://community.logos.com/forums/t/6200.aspx). BTW, I only know about that specific example because my brother is a preacher.

I think a better foundation for a cross-platform editor/IDE would be SWT, the Standard Widget Toolkit from Eclipse, perhaps ported to .NET.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by Shog9 on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:47PM (#9462588)
And this is why it's web stack: there are no better alternatives.

For decades of trying, this is the best we've managed to do for cross-platform UIs. It ain't great, but it soundly beats the alternatives.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mwcampbell on Thursday April 30, 2015 @10:14AM (#9465158)
I think that SWT proves that for some criteria, particularly nativeness and accessibility, it is possible to do better than the web stack while covering all major desktop platforms.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by Alphasite_ on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:07PM (#9461339)
Or even IntelliJs skin and components for Swing.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mwcampbell on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:28PM (#9461501)
Do the IntelliJ skin and components have any advantages over Eclipse's SWT in your opinion? My understanding is that Swing is much heavier. In fact, SWT was originally designed for Java 2 Micro Edition [1].

[1]: http://flylib.com/books/en/2.120.1.42/1/

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by billrobertson42 on Thursday April 30, 2015 @12:32AM (#9463374)
Swing was crap at the time, but it got significantly better.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by pavlov on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:28PM (#9462503)
Cross-platform WPF did exist. It was originally called "WPF/Everywhere" but eventually branded as Silverlight.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by JustSomeNobody on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:15PM (#9460940)
WPF?! You cannot be serious.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by WDCDev on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:55PM (#9461706)
WPF is, by far, the most pleasant and flexible thick client, windowing system out there. XAML is a bit verbose, but the binding capabilities combined with an open source MVVM framework like Caliburn allow you to build extremely flexible UIs.

WPF also abstracts control behavior away from presentation and allows you to easily and quickly extend the base set of controls to do whatever you want to.

After building multiple thick client applications using VB6, MFC, Swign, Winforms and WPF, WPF exceeds all of these, by far, in flexibility and maintainability.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by _random_ on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @06:02PM (#9462137)
Also <grid> (as a sane alternative to <div class="table">) where you can actually align stuff exactly the way you want.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by nailer on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @06:38PM (#9462296)
You know about flex box right?
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by antonmaju on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @11:05PM (#9463114)
Microsoft should have bought Qt when they acquired Nokia. So they have an alternative for cross platform desktop development.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by 0xFFC on Thursday April 30, 2015 @05:46AM (#9464094)
This makes sense , Microsoft does not support C for user space development , and Qt/C++ is good way to push C out from user space development in all platform's .
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by Maakuth on Thursday April 30, 2015 @07:06AM (#9464298)
It wasn't there anymore, Nokia sold it's Qt business to Digia quite soon after the 2011 announcement of Windows Phone strategy.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by jaked89 on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:47PM (#9462047)
I find the binding part and MVVM stuff rubbish.

For me, the real value is composition flexibility.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by pistle on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:51PM (#9460753)
Ahhh we can dream... sigh
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by DonHopkins on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:20PM (#9460513)
Neato -- lots of JS code in: Visual Studio Code.app/Contents/Resources/app

Try using it to view its own source code inside the app!

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by Scarbutt on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:23PM (#9459957)
Looks like it just uses Electron.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by MCRed on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:57PM (#9462112)
So is there any reason to use it instead of Atom? (assuming you're not developing with .net or C#)
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by tdestan on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:46PM (#9462586)
If it supports any form of semantic completion (i.e. Intellisense) , that would be a reason. I'm still not sure from reading the article if that's the case, though.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by hipsterrific on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:14PM (#9460933)
Ballmer was good at sales but horrible at running a company. He was perfect before the internet came to be and before the rise of mobile devices. Ballmer, is in fact, what sunk Microsoft for a better part of a decade or more.

Nadella is doing MS good. For one, he understands market dynamics better than Ballmer did and is willing to gamble. As a C# developer of 10 years, this is the first time Microsoft actually "spiced up" their product line. Offering up robust tooling like Visual Studio Community (which is just a free version of Professional) shows me Microsoft is committed to the platform. Now, with Visual Studio Code, it will make my work better since I'm 99% on a Mac these days. The next few months will be interesting. :)

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by pera on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:17PM (#9461407)
> Open source is not available to commercial companies. The way the license is written, if you use any open-source software, you have to make the rest of your software open source. If the government wants to put something in the public domain, it should. Linux is not in the public domain. Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches. That's the way that the license works.

- Ballmer, 2001

Yeah Ballmer was pretty bad, but to be fair Bill Gates also was very anti open-source ("Communism! Communism!"... http://old.seattletimes.com/html/microsoft/2002152694_paul13...). I like the direction of this "new Microsoft", but they still do some nasty stuff: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/20/win...

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by serge2k on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:24PM (#9461906)
Is he wrong about the GPL? It actually does what he is talking about by design. Every company which uses GPL code is very careful about how they do so. A lot won't touch GPLv3 because of the newer restrictions. AGPL as well.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by dragonwriter on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:32PM (#9461962)
> Is he wrong about the GPL?

Yes, even if he was talking about the GPL when he said "open source software", he would be wrong. (And if he meant the GPL, he would be wrong in using the general term "open source software" in referring to it, even if his statements were accurate for the GPL.)

> It actually does what he is talking about by design.

No it doesn't. He says "if you use any open-source software, you have to make the rest of your software open source." You can use GPL software without making your other software GPL. You can distribute GPL software without making your other software GPL. You can distribute GPL software without making other software you distribute together with the GPL software GPL, too, in some cases.

> Every company which uses GPL code is very careful about how they do so.

Many of them also produce a lot of non-GPL software. Which demonstrates that the "all your other software" claim is false.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mreiland on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:34PM (#9462534)
He directly referenced Linux which is famously under GPLv2. You can argue with this wording if you like, but his observation is spot on and it's obvious to those are not unduly biased that he was speaking about the GPL and the licenses that were similar to it.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by dragonwriter on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:43PM (#9462575)
> He directly referenced Linux which is famously under GPLv2.

Sure, he used it as an example, but he also explicitly made a generality about open source software, not the GPLv2. In any case, what he said was wrong about Linux, wrong about the GPL (including GPLv2), and wrong about open source software, so arguing over which of those he was talking about is a sideshow.

> You can argue with this wording if you like, but his observation is spot on

No, its absolutely, completely false. You can use -- or even distribute -- "open source software" (or GPL software, or Linux specifically) without "all your other software" being required to become open source.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by nightski on Thursday April 30, 2015 @03:02PM (#9466970)
By use it is pretty obvious he meant incorporate it as part of their products (ex. utilize a GPL library). Microsoft is a software development shop after all.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by Retra on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @10:25PM (#9462998)
It seems to me like he was purposefully taking a hard political stance on a nuanced issue in order to drive people who are uninformed or unsure about these things into his own company's pen. It has nothing to do with linux, GPL, or any technicality, and everything to do with perceptions, executive policy, and business culture.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mreiland on Thursday April 30, 2015 @09:08AM (#9464780)
perhaps, but he was referring to the GPL, and this particular discussion started because one poster asked roughly "wasn't he being accurate"?

And the answer is yes.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by veidr on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @08:40PM (#9462722)
What I think is "obvious to those who are not unduly biased" is that he was cherrypicking the most extreme example (the restrictive GPL license, which is not used by most open source software[1]), and then trying to use that to spraypaint FUD over the (much) broader open source concept as a whole.

"Open source is not available to commercial companies" is about as factually incorrect as any statement in the English language can aspire to be.

[1]: http://johnhaller.com/useful-stuff/open-source-license-popul...

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mreiland on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @10:25PM (#9462993)
weird how the GPL shows up as the most popular license by having double the marketshare of number 2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft#Viral_licensing

" Craig Mundie remarked, "This viral aspect of the GPL poses a threat to the intellectual property of any organization making use of it."[35] In another context, Steve Ballmer declared that code released under GPL is useless to the commercial sector (since it can only be used if the resulting surrounding code becomes GPL), describing it thus as "a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches"."

It seems even the Wiki editors believe he was speaking about the GPL.

Stop being a jackass.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by the_why_of_y on Saturday May 02, 2015 @09:17AM (#9476921)
If any of that FUD were true, how do you explain that Microsoft has been shipping the "Subsystem for UNIX-based Applications" add-on for Windows Server for a decade, while Ballmer was CEO?

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc771470.aspx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX

It includes GPL-licensed programs such as GCC and GDB; shouldn't Microsoft have released the source code of Windows Server by now if these statements weren't anything but FUD?

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by thomasz on Thursday April 30, 2015 @07:37AM (#9464397)
That was 2001. There was no SAS loophole to exploit. If you desired to sell software, you had to ship it. In a box. The GPL was as viable for businesses back then as the AGPL is today.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by dragonwriter on Thursday April 30, 2015 @04:03PM (#9467311)
> That was 2001. There was no SAS loophole to exploit. If you desired to sell software, you had to ship it.

People have been selling access to remotely hosted services since long before 2001 (since before the web, the FSF/GPL, or even the internet or even ARPAnet existed.)

The thing now referred to as "SaaS" has been a thing a lot longer than the name "Software-as-a-Service" or the acronym "SaaS" to refer to the concept has existed.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by sukilot on Friday May 01, 2015 @02:44AM (#9469864)
In 2001 I sold a closed-source commercial product that ran on Linux and used LGPL librsries.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by ascendantlogic on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @10:33PM (#9463019)
No, you can use Linux without having to open source the stuff you run on Linux. That is not an accurate observation by any stretch of the imagination.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by dllthomas on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:34PM (#9462535)
"After a year and a half of public consultation, thousands of comments, and four drafts, version 3 of the GNU General Public License (GPLv3) was finally published on June 29, 2007."

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/quick-guide-gplv3.html

Regardless of what one thinks about GPLv3, Ballmer could not possibly have been talking about it in 2001.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by nu2ycombinator on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @11:34PM (#9463212)
He is right about GPL. But there is a loop hole behind it, which all the open source companies use it. If the software is behind a web UI it does not need to be released back as a open source. Thats how all other big companies like Google, Facebook does not need to open source their source code back.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by nailer on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @06:40PM (#9462300)
Using code is very distinct from using software (which Balmer referred to).
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by hackuser on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:50PM (#9461667)
> Ballmer was good at sales but horrible at running a company

From Wikipedia:

Under Ballmer's tenure as CEO, Microsoft's annual revenue surged from $25 billion to $70 billion, while its net income increased 215 percent to $23 billion

May all companies suffer equally incompetent CEOs.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by Turing_Machine on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:06PM (#9461791)
Over the same period Apple was going from $8 billion to $182 billion in revenue and Google was going from $3 billion to $66 billion in revenue.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by jliptzin on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @11:05PM (#9463117)
You could say the pie was just getting a lot bigger. Why should one company be expected to eat it all?
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by waterlesscloud on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @06:31PM (#9462268)
Google is a completely unfair comparison as that was their prime growth stage.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by soup10 on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:04PM (#9461321)
No doubt Microsoft under ballmer launched quite a few failed products, but they've maintained their monopolies and have made record profits in the process.

Posted from my Zune

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by ryanmarsh on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:53PM (#9461237)
Some HN'ers may not recall Microsoft's "sleeping giant awakes" moment with the Internet in the 90's. Speaking of tidal waves, hang on to your surfboards, it's going to be big and fast. http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/07/internet-tidal-wave.htm...
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by notsony on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:04PM (#9461316)
Tim Cook's too busy with Jonathan Ive and Angela Ahrendts, turning Apple into a luxury goods company, to even know what just hit him.

Slowly but surely the best developers are going to leave the Mac platform leaving only consulting body-shops and corporates on iOS. Developing for the Mac and iOS is miserable. It wasn't always that way, but it is now.

Developers* are sick of proprietary stacks, from the language (Swift), to the APIs (Cocoa/CoreX/iOS), to the conditions attached (iCloud SDK only available for Mac Apps sold through the Mac Store), to the penny-pinching (pay your $99 fee and 30% even though we're raising $billion in debt to buy-back shares and hand out dividends because we're too tight-fisted to repatriate overseas funds and pay taxes on it) to the still broken XCode which only runs on a Mac, which must run Yosemite which feels like a Fisher-Price toy rather than a workstation for developers.

*Well, ok, I'm sick of it, but I'm sure a few people reading this are feeling the same way.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by kaolinite on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:18PM (#9461428)
Do you have anything to back that up? Personally, I feel developing for Apple platforms has never been better. Companies are still, for the most part, launching on iOS first and I don't know who the developers you're talking about are, but there are a hell of a lot of great developers still in the platform: Panic, OmniGroup, etc.

As for your comment on the 30% fee, that's industry standard and few serious developers complain. The $99 fee is nothing compared to the amount of time it takes to build and design a quality app.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by notsony on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:07PM (#9461802)
Panic and OmniGroup were big 10 years ago. The fact that nobody has appeared on the scene, innovated and become a name that you or I can quote is quite telling. Where is the new blood? I personally know many long-time Mac developers who have sold their products to others to maintain, or have quietly slipped away and let sales slide.

The 30% fee is not an industry standard that was debated and researched and rationalized. It's an abitrary number picked out by Apple first and then followed by others in order to maximize income from the work of third-party developers who are forced to pay or quit the platform. It's a de facto standard imposed by the platform gatekeepers. Calling it an "industry standard" sounds like it's an ISO recommendation :-)

There is no reason at all to charge a $99 fee to developers given the vast income generated from the 30% and the overall health of the company. This is nickle'n'diming developers. Some people claim that "Apple Developer" is a cost-center, an independently run business silo that must generate a profit to justify its existence, that it's not a charity... i say no. It contributes to the overall well-being of Apple Inc as a whole, just like human resources and research and development does, it helps contributes to the overall profits of the company, so when we look at the company's overall financial health, in my mind, there is no doubt that developers are being taken for a ride because...

...they have nowhere else to go because their Apple centric skill-set is not transferable to other platforms.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by MrGando on Friday May 01, 2015 @12:14AM (#9469365)
You are generalizing too much. Panic big 10 years ago? Coda came out in 2007, and it was pretty big for a while. So omnigroup is no longer a thing? They are alive and kicking. I agree that they both had faced problems with the Apple Sandboxing scheme, but I guess they'll overcome those issues (even by being out of the App Store).

What about Sketch, AgileBits, Alfred?

I know many long time devs who are still doing it and haven't sold their products to others to maintain... And I also happen know -lots- of new Mac/iOS devs.

Nothing to say about the 30%, it's just a pathetic argument, people have pointed it out already.

There is a reason to charge a $99 fee. There's also a reason to force a user to put a credit card to create an App Store Account, there's a reason to request a CC to create an Amazon account too. And $99 bucks is literally nothing, check MSDN and Visual Studio (https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/how-to-buy-vs.as...).

About 'Apple Centric Skill-set' not being transferable to other platforms? Sorry, but... are you f'ing kidding me?

If you learn -any- framework, made by anyone at all, in-depth (not just copy pasting code here and there), you'll get skills that are transferable to other development environments. I've learned a ton of C/C++ and even some Assembly by doing iOS, I've also dealt with several scripting languages in the process.

If you're a real Engineer, and you really learn and understand a framework (Apple's or not) it should contribute to your growth.

Cheers.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by randallsquared on Saturday May 02, 2015 @03:45PM (#9478294)
Coda? Coda is just Panic's new thing. They used to make the main file transfer application on Mac, Transmit, which was originally developed for classic Mac OS.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by MrGando on Saturday May 02, 2015 @09:30PM (#9479384)
And before that they made Audion for Mac OS Classic (audio app that I used a lot).

What's the point here? :)

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by randallsquared on Sunday May 03, 2015 @10:41PM (#9484029)
My point was that they were already stuggling to retain mindshare when Coda was released. They went from being a well-known fish in a small pond to being an average fish in a great lake, so their relative importance has certainly been declining from ten years ago.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by MCRed on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:52PM (#9462081)
It's an "arbitrary" number in the sense that it is the revers of the previous industry standard in the mobile space which was 70/30 in favor of the Carrier. Often times developers would get less than %30 of the revenue for their products. And they had many more hoops to jump thru to get to the market, could only even get a meeting to try and get on mobile devices if they were already a large company, and had to work with terrible SDKs, etc.

Apple democratized and revolutionized that entire industry, providing a level playing field where I can compete with Omni, and we both have the same hoops to jump thru and get the same deal. We both get a much better deal than before.

The $99 fee covers the cost of administering the developer program. This program is hugely popular, and is already overrun with people who just want to get access to early versions of iOS before they are released publicly. Even with the $99 fee. It's a very low fee so that anyone serious can afford it, but high enough to keep out the problematic people who would abuse the service and overwhelm Apple's developer support resources.

Seriously, I find it kinda curious that you're complaining about $99 as if it's some big barrier.

The idea that an "Apple centric skill-set is not transferrable to other platforms" is pretty darn silly. I mean, sure, if you learn to program using Cocoa you will be frustrated and annoyed at how terrible certain other platforms are to develop for.

But these days only HR people seem to think that programmers can only learn one langage and that experienced in one language is not useful in other languages or using other frameworks. Are you an HR person? Because that perspective is not one I would expect from any software developer.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by notsony on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:19PM (#9462468)
The Internet democratized the entire software industry by allowing developers to sell direct to customers. You would no longer have to beg CompUSA to carry your boxed software in store. Before the rise of the App Stores, you could use Kagi or eSellerate to sell your software for 8-12%, or you could use PayPal, WorldPay, 2Checkout for 2-4%. Things are even cheaper and easier now with Braintree, Stripe, etc.

Apple charges 30% because they can, just like how CompUSA could charge whatever they wanted and make you pay for boxing and associated costs, because the software you spent a year writing cannot be sold anywhere else except on their platform. And if you want to sell by yourself on the Mac, without using the Mac App Store, you are a second class citizen because certain APIs like the iCloud SDK are not available to you.

If the $99 is a nominal amount, why even charge it? Why $99 and not $49? Or $199? Again, it's a number they came up with which they felt a certain demographic, let's say teenage programmers could afford, or younger kids could get their parents to pay for. I'm open to better reasons if you have one.

Being experienced in many languages does not make one a good programmer. You can be the jack of all trades and master of none. You think someone can just pick up C++ in a few weeks and become an "expert"? It takes years to become proficient in not only a single language but it's associated tooling and ecosystem.

I have no doubt that there are many developers out there who have spent years of effort learning Apple's proprietary stack and are now regretting it and kicking themselves because a decade has passed and Apple, as a friend to developers, has regressed and gone backwards.

Finally, Cocoa is a nice enough API, but have you ever had a problem and then tried to resolve it? Good luck going to the sign-in Apple developer forums where everyone shouts "ssh, we can't talk about it, it's under NDA" or having to file a bug report on Radar where nobody even responds and when they do it's to say it's a duplicate bug filing or, or opening a DTS incident and having the person say "Yep, it's a bug on our end, not sure when it will be fixed, in the mean time try a workaround". How is this better than having an open roadmap with discussion in public forums regarding language/SDK features, bugs, fixes etc?

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by ghshephard on Thursday April 30, 2015 @01:43AM (#9463511)
Apple could not care less about that $99 fee. It is 100% immaterial to them beyond the function that it is attempting to server - act as a minimum bar of entry to the developer program.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by StillBored on Thursday April 30, 2015 @12:35PM (#9466113)
The $99 isn't the barrier, owning a recent mac decent enough to develop on is the real barrier.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by ghshephard on Saturday May 02, 2015 @02:56AM (#9476164)
Exactly my point - the $99 isn't a financial barrier, but, your average user isn't going to pay it each year, so it creates a minimum barrier between "Users" and "Developers" to provide Apple with some insight into how many developers they have.

Advance access to IOS kind of messed that up, (at lot of people paid the developer fee to access the next operating system) which is why application to the WWDC lottery is probably a better estimate of developer count.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by greedo on Thursday April 30, 2015 @04:29PM (#9467452)
It doesn't need to be a recent mac, I'm running Yosemite on a 9 year old Mac Pro. I think you can pick one up on eBay for under $400 if you look carefully.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by adripop on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:28PM (#9461933)
Pixelmator team ?
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by notsony on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:48PM (#9462061)
If I'm not mistaken those guys appeared on the scene back in 2006/2007. They showed off Pixelmator at WWDC and it went down pretty well but that's still their only product, apart from an iOS version.

I guess another way to look at it is this: If you had an idea for a desktop app today, would you decide to write for Mac first using a proprietary language Swift and proprietary SDKs like CoreData or would you pick C# and .NET so the bulk of your code could be re-used on both desktop and mobile, and you could bind to native toolkits for the UI?

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by stdgy on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @08:07PM (#9462643)
Honest question, not snark:

Who are some big C# developers that create major applications consumers (Not enterprises) use everyday?

You mentioned the paucity of major OSX/iOS developers, but I'm not sure the case isn't the same for C#/.NET.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by Margh on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @11:29PM (#9463198)
My first thought is any game written in Unity. Works on desktops and android more or less out of the box and iOS with a little bit of tinkering.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by Joe4evr on Thursday April 30, 2015 @07:15AM (#9464327)
Supergiant Games (Bastion and Transistor) and Squad (Kerbal Space Program), to name a couple. And all the StackExchange sites are made on ASP.NET, if you want to count that too.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by stdgy on Friday May 01, 2015 @06:46PM (#9474983)
The Unity-oriented stuff are good examples. The Stack Exchange sites came to my mind as well, though I was hesitant to count web apps.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by marssaxman on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @08:02PM (#9462633)
Neither! I'd say "fuck that nonsense" and go do something else.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by tw04 on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @06:44PM (#9462320)
Panic? You mean the company that pulled Coda 2.5 out of the app store because it was too difficult to sandbox? Oh, the irony.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by serve_yay on Thursday April 30, 2015 @01:52PM (#9466560)
And hell, they've even had worse than that. They went through a pretty horrible thing with Apple shortly after iOS 8 came out, over an extension they made.

The last 12 months have been pretty horrible for them in terms of their relations with Apple. Sure they're toughing it out because it's not like they have other revenue sources, but those experiences have jolted them into finally considering moving beyond being just a Mac/iOS shop. So they're not a very good example of "all is well in Apple developer land".

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by joekim on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:45PM (#9461634)
I agree with the feeling. I'm very frustrated that Swift has not been open sourced into LLVM. Apple is in a position to take the wind out of Microsofts sails, but it feels that they're more focused on profits than on what their developers are asking for.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by karpodiem on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:18PM (#9461425)
thank you for pointing out the money part, I share the same sentiment as you do on this.

I've been itching for someone to stick it to Apple since they're really being tight with money in some places (annual developer fee as you mentioned), and wasting it on share repurchases.

It's time for someone to really compress Apple's margins.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by ryanmarsh on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @06:57PM (#9462368)
If you think $99 is expensive just wait until you have to buy your first copy of MSDN.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by TheRealDunkirk on Thursday April 30, 2015 @04:40PM (#9467507)
So you're complaining about the $99 fee for an Apple developer license, but not complaining about needing to buy either the $1,200 or the $6,000 Visual Studio license required to develop commercial software? Oh, and you want InstallShield? And MSDN? And a better widget library, like DevExpress? Am I taking crazy pills?! The situation is hardly comparable. For a SMALL team in a corporation, even with Select and discounts, this is an enormous expense.

And developing native Windows applications with Microsoft's tools is still just as proprietary as anything on the OS X platform. The recent open-sourcing of the .NET web stack means nothing in this regard. Unless you're telling me that there's an open source C# compiler that can do the job now?

I'm a couple weeks away from paying the Apple license, and starting to write my first iOS app, so I may not know all the costs and foibles of Apple development yet. I'm open to the fact that I may be ignorant of needing some basic things, like on Windows, to REALLY get the job done.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by Sir_Substance on Thursday April 30, 2015 @07:33AM (#9464386)
I agree wholeheartedly.

My standpoint is that by developing on someones platform, I am doing them a favor. I'm happy for them to not roll out the red carpet, but there better not be a bouncer checking me at the door, either.

If I have to sign up to used your SDK (unreal, unity), I'll just use something else.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by rbanffy on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:27PM (#9461492)
> Developers* are sick of proprietary stacks

And Microsoft will rescue them... Yeah, right...

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by notsony on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:57PM (#9461726)
Is there any reason not to use .NET now that it has been open-sourced?

What's wrong with C# and F#?

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @06:41PM (#9462308)
We'll know in a decade. It's too soon to tell whether Microsoft has something up it's sleeve. (The open source stuff is always a version behind Microsoft's latest, maybe?)

I've watched Microsoft since the 1980s. One year is way too soon for me to believe that they've changed their stripes. In particular, it's way too soon for me to want to tie myself to their platform.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by troels on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:28PM (#9461935)
embrace, extend, extinguish
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by snambi on Thursday April 30, 2015 @01:26AM (#9463478)
Why would you trust a company like microsoft, when there are tons of true free/opensource software available?
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by fsloth on Thursday April 30, 2015 @03:34AM (#9463738)
Because their tech stack is pretty good from developer experience point of view. Good in the sense developer speed is good, as in speed in developing new features, understanding the code and debugging. There are not "tons" of good industrial strength free/opensource alternatives to .net stack. There are, but I've not seen one that would be of better quality. In ways Visual Studio is the gold standard of developer experience (unless one goes shell and makefiles all the way but that's... a different demographic I suppose).
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by SXX on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @10:59PM (#9463087)
At moment they only open-sourced core that only useful for running backends on non-Windows platforms which is useless on Mac as nobody run servers on it.

Once their open source .Net would get most of Windows version features there may be some use for it with same drawbacks like you have with Java for example.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by noelherrick on Thursday April 30, 2015 @01:03AM (#9463434)
.NET Core is available on Linux, FreeBSD, and Mac, so you can use it for servers on Linux.[1] A lot of developers (such as myself) use Macs for their development machines, so it's very useful to have the same framework/runtime for both Mac and Linux.

[1] https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr#get-net-core

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by serve_yay on Thursday April 30, 2015 @01:43PM (#9466504)
Oh, yeah. Everyone knows Apple is doomed.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by pasta_2 on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:15PM (#9461395)
2/10 troll
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by MCRed on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:57PM (#9462105)
It is now just a month shy of 20 years since that letter was written.

And what did Microsoft do? They bought a browser and gave it away for free, cutting off Netscape at the knees, til the company folded and become the Mozilla Foundation.

They poured billions and billions of dollars into online initiatives from the Microsoft Network to Bing, including buying dozens and dozens of companies.

None of those were big successes. None of those have been a "tidal wave" of innovation, or success, or money. At least that I can see. Internet Explorer became dominant, but mainly due to bundling and that has gone away. IIS was a popular web server for a long time and people have written web sites using microsoft technology, but .net which is just a renamed MFC, isn't really much more used outside the same types of shops that used it before 1995. Yes, the mono project brought it to linux and made C# a more viable language, but that wasn't Microsoft's doing.

Maybe I'm missing something. Xbox and Xbox online are huge money sinks that I don't know if MSFT is ever going to recover the money from. The stock has been flat during that period while google, amazon and apple have been going like gangbusters. (And given the level of monetary inflation over the past 15 years flat means down.) Yes, it did boom during the bubble but that was %100 windows and office from the boom in companies putting computers on everyone's desk. And yes, it's grown the past couple of years after being flat from 2001-2011. But that's not a result of the 1995 "initiative".

Microsoft, like Apple, unfortunately for both, doesn't quite get the internet. It doesn't get mobile (unlike Apple).

The new CEO might change this, I don't know.

But the "internet tidal wave" happened pretty much completely without microsoft.

For the record, I worked for the company near the time of this letter, lived in Seattle during most of the intervening years and have been watching Microsoft closely for about 25 years.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by billforsternz on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @06:24PM (#9462245)
> .net which is just a renamed MFC

I can't agree with this. MFC was a thin C++ encapsulation of the Windows API. It was a reasonably successful technology but was unloved largely because it was so thin - it didn't try to fix the ugly mess beneath and so left developers wrestling a large smelly octopus. .Net was more of a clean room attempt to provide developers with a clean, sane, consistent API built on a new virtual machine based architecture complete with a shiny new language (C#, basically Java++).

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by locusm on Thursday April 30, 2015 @12:46AM (#9463406)
I originally went from Borland C++ Builder to .Net 1.1, the move from one IDE to the other felt very familiar, going from MFC to .Net was nothing like this.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by billforsternz on Thursday April 30, 2015 @01:17AM (#9463458)
Yes. Microsoft hired Anders Hejlsberg (Turbo Pascal and Delphi) to architect their C# / .Net development tools. So you observed a distinct family relationship there. But MFC is a different beast entirely.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by daemin on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @09:30PM (#9462832)
MFC is not a thin layer over the Win32 API, it's a thick document centric app building framework. If you want a thin layer around Win32 then try WTL.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by billforsternz on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @11:32PM (#9463207)
From wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Foundation_Class_Libr...

"MFC was introduced in 1992 with Microsoft's C/C++ 7.0 compiler for use with 16-bit versions of Windows as an extremely thin object-oriented C++ wrapper for the Windows API."

Thinness is probably in the eye of the beholder, but as one of the many MFC victims back in the day, I found using MFC to be endlessly frustrating because it added a layer of complexity and pain to Win32 programming without giving me anything I really wanted back in compensation - you still needed to work directly with arcane Win32 mechanisms to do simple things, like, change the background color of a window for example. Admittedly there was some (less thin) Document/View model stuff thrown in there, but the impression I got was that this was an afterthought bolted on the side.

In contrast, Qt and wxWidgets for example are toolkits that are designed to make a programmer's life easier by providing a genuinely convenient abstraction of a Windowed GUI.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by rbanffy on Thursday April 30, 2015 @12:39AM (#9463393)
My perception on MFC is that it was neither thin, nor particularly well thought out. It felt like something Microsoft started developing for internal use and that they decided to turn it into a product for developers, with all sort of idiosyncratic oddities that make perfect sense when you are Microsoft and none to anyone else.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by brc on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @11:05PM (#9463111)
Were you around 20 years ago?

What they did was bundle internet connectivity in with the every windows PC. Sounds ridiculous even mentioning it, right?

Back then you couldn't connect to the internet without installing third party tools, usually from an ISP on a disc. You had to install a browser, you couldn't embed hyperlinks in documents, there was no built-in way to get an email client..etcetcetc.

The original memo was not about building developer tools for the internet, but on taking a stand-alone operating system and shipping it with networking and hyperlinks and forming partnerships with ISPs and on and on.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by ericras on Thursday April 30, 2015 @12:41AM (#9463399)
But those tools were hard for laypeople to use in 1995. Sure, Windows now had a web browser and email program but you still needed an ISP and the email client was confusing to setup. Hell, their own Microsoft Network service was hard to figure out; one phone number to connect to the proprietary service and a different one for the Web (which never connected for me).

It was much simpler for users to put in the AOL disk and stay inside their walled garden - both conceptually and technically easier for laypeople.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by brc on Thursday April 30, 2015 @01:31AM (#9463485)
Your points may be true, but the point is they went from potentially letting AOL own all their customers to regaining the initiative. Prior to the strategy change, it would have been simple for AOL to maintain a steel grip on those customers and harvest all the value from them.

Just because Microsoft went on to dominate the desktop market and win the browser war doesn't mean it was inevitable.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by WDCDev on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @09:00PM (#9462766)
- .net which is just a renamed MFC -

This ridiculous comparison shows just how clueless you are about the .NET platform and Windows development.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by PopsiclePete on Thursday April 30, 2015 @01:28PM (#9466392)
.NET is a renamed MFC? I stopped reading afterwards. You are completely clueless about .NET, aren't you? Do you think that Java and the JVM are just "rebranded" Delphi as well?
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by molmalo on Thursday April 30, 2015 @04:57AM (#9463979)
> .net which is just a renamed MFC

erm..... no. Sorry, but if you really think that, then you need to go and read something about what really is .net

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by sukilot on Friday May 01, 2015 @02:48AM (#9469884)
Mozilla going nonprofit opem source was the best thing that happened to it.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by dvirsky on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:25PM (#9461484)
There wasn't a Google then and Apple was much weaker. But I'll hang on to my surfboard nevertheless.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by WDCDev on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:25PM (#9459974)
The push to open source started under Ballmer and has been gaining momentum the past few years. You saw some of the very early open source work debut when Scott Guthrie open sourced ASP.NET MVC 2 in 2010.

He (Guthrie) blogged a few times about evangelizing open source in Microsoft, and given today's news, he gained quite a bit of traction over the years. It also helped that ASP.NET MVC is a pretty sold web framework too.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by jf on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:41PM (#9460118)
I was at Microsoft when Nadella took over Azure but I left before he became CEO.

While it's true that Microsoft was taking steps to open source products under Ballmer, it was despite him, not because of him. There was an incredible amount of red tape, dragging of heels and internal fear uncertainty and doubt. Even internal only projects to synchronize open source practices among divisions were an uphill battle. If anybody deserves credit for Microsoft's open source efforts at that time, it's Sam Ramji who should get the credit, not Ballmer.

From the outside, Microsoft under Nadella has all the stops removed. This all lines up with a quote that I heard from Nadella 3rd hand: "We [Microsoft] can either push the 'One Microsoft' vision, or we can make money."

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by aceperry on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:37PM (#9460074)
Funny thing is most MS devs seem to think that asp.net is on its way out.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by DougWebb on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:53PM (#9460223)
There's ASP.Net and there's ASP.Net MVC. They're very different beasts, even though the latter is/was built upon the former. ASP.Net probably is on the way out, but MVC is not.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mreiland on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @07:41PM (#9462567)
ASP.Net is going nowhere, the abomination known as Web Controls is on the way out (and good riddance).

It will never go away, there's too much code and money involved, but it won't be used for new projects.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by aceperry on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @09:48PM (#9462883)
"but it won't be used for new projects"

I would interpret that statement as: it's on the way out.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mreiland on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @10:14PM (#9462956)
ASP.Net is not going anywhere, perhaps you should read a little closer before you respond.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by manigandham on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @08:33PM (#9462702)
asp.net is the web framework.

WebForms and MVC and WebAPI were different stacks that ran on top of asp.net to deliver different functionality. WebForms is the old school stuff and was great at what it did (which was replicate the winforms ability so desktop developers could rapidly create webapps) and serves millions of businesses today.

WebForms is still being supported but now finally seems to be removed from future roadmap. MVC and WebAPI have been combined together now. The latest stack is ASP.NET MVC 6 running on top of ASP.NET 5 running on top of .NET framework 4.6

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by frik on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:09PM (#9460391)
ASP.NET MVC, ASP.NET Web API and ASP.NET Web Pages will merge into a unified "ASP.NET vNext". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASP.NET
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by NicoJuicy on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:56PM (#9461256)
Asp.Net 1.0 is still working on new servers. MS got compatibility covered better then any other firm :)
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by manigandham on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @08:34PM (#9462704)
asp.net is not going anywhere, it's the name for the web focused framework of the .net stack.

The layers are ASP.NET MVC 6 running on ASP.NET 5 (the web framework) running on .NET Framework 4.6 (the core libraries).

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by M8 on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:22PM (#9460526)
There is no real alternative to ASP.NET.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by aceperry on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @10:15PM (#9462962)
I don't know about that. A lot of companies, some of the world's largest, use non-MS technologies and seem to get by very well.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by graycat on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @09:01PM (#9462768)
My take is that in the most central sense, what Nadella and Microsoft are doing with the code editor, .NET, their free IDE, etc. is following a standard, powerful, old script:

If have something popular, e.g., .NET, then make it open and promote it as a standard. Then come out with enhancements every few months.

Part of the script is what Ballmer once said in his uniquely understated way -- "Developers! Developers! Developers!"

Then initially many developers will adopt and use the standard because it's open and, thus, close to universal, at least pretty good, and free.

Then, later, as Microsoft makes improvements each few months, it will be next to impossible for anyone else to make a fork that is competitive so that Microsoft will, then, continue to own the standard. Or, if a developer wants some new feature X, then they will likely just wait for the next version of the standard and hope.

So, thusly owning the standard, Microsoft controls a major part of computing which can be very powerful for Microsoft and a farm where only Microsoft plows, seeds, and harvests.

E.g., nearly all the developers would be on .NET, etc., but Microsoft and only Microsoft knows where the .NET standard will be in version n + 1, n + 2, ... out several years into the future. Then the rest of Microsoft can start development now that exploits the standard, say, two years from now while everyone else has to wait two years even to start. Bingo. Presto. The parts of Microsoft that exploit the standard get a two year head start.

Or, maybe at one time a computer company, say, HAL, designed, manufactured, and sold hardware, operating system software, middle ware software, and applications software. Then they had hardware enhancements right along, say, each year or so.

Well, the hardware specification about had to be in the manual Principles of Operation and, thus, essentially open. So, some plug compatible manufacturer, say, GA, could get the manual and build a cheaper version of the hardware.

Well, the HAL software people knew what good, new functionality was coming to their hardware some years before GA or anyone else did and could have a head start of those years. One heck of an advantage.

Net, thusly owning an open standard can be very valuable.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by frik on Thursday April 30, 2015 @12:59AM (#9463427)
> Net, thusly owning an open standard can be very valuable.

Microsoft would like that more developers are locked in to their dotNet languages. And they try to influence the development of the next Javascript version (ES6 & ES7) by showcasing C# syntax ideas in their TypeScript language which then influenced ES6 - which is heavily used in Sharepoint/Office-Server365, Visual Studio Code/Online, etc.

Don't get me wrong, Google, Adobe, Oracle, Mozilla, Opera, etc are trying to influence the Javascript/ES6&7 development - everyone with different business cases behind them. But Microsoft is well know for what the parent poster wrote, and several newer evil things like the locked EFI on new PCs (instead of the open BIOS) that make it hard to install anything but Windows are still there, more there https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9459890 .

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by fstephany on Thursday April 30, 2015 @08:06AM (#9464513)
Is it not what Google is currently doing with Android?
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by istvan__ on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:41PM (#9461152)
MS realized that the closed source, only running on Win32 platform battle is lost. Their only chance to get a grip of the future if they open up and go for supporting multiple platforms like Java did.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by aceperry on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:36PM (#9460058)
I fully agree with you there.

"Microsoft has come a long way from the company that everybody loved to hate"

Although, during the last few years, MS seemed to be the company that everyone ignored. But there is still a lot of built up animus against MS, due to their past business practices.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by marssaxman on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:49PM (#9460192)
Yes, I observe that they are taking good steps and that this is clearly a positive change, but I am too old, it has been too many years, and I can't imagine that I will ever really be able to trust them.

Perhaps a younger generation can get some value out of their products, though, which would be nice for all the people who work there.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by sirseal on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:37PM (#9460081)
Definitely. It's because, fundamentally, Ballmer was not a technology person. He simply didn't get it.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by jliptzin on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @11:07PM (#9463124)
Indeed Ballmer would have been great at selling toilet paper or soda but he was just not the software visionary that Microsoft needed.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by shmerl on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @06:08PM (#9462159)
Nadela makes some good changes. Let's see if it will continue into abolishing MS historic crooked practices like vendor lock-in, standards hijacking and patents abuse. When Nadela will do that, I'll agree that MS has really seriously changed for the better.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by frik on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:59PM (#9460299)
Sorry to nick pick but the following download statement is "not optimal":

  When this tool crashes, we automatically collect crash 
  dumps so we can figure out what went wrong. If you don’t 
  want to send your crash dumps to Microsoft, don't install 
  this tool. 
So no check box to deactivate this phone-home feature that used to be standard in Microsoft products like Visual Studio, Office and Windows. That's a regression. (Source - bottom grey text: https://code.visualstudio.com//#alt-downloads )

Edit: there is only a small "preview" symbol on the top left, beside that no text or screenshot mentions it: https://code.visualstudio.com/

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by shankun on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:31PM (#9460593)
Visual Code is a brand new tool, and we only use the telemetry to help improve product quality, and better understand how our tool and features are being used so we can know how to improve VSCode. By the time we exit Preview, we will provide a way to opt out of this reporting.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by tomjen3 on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:42PM (#9460688)
Whats in the crash info? Because even the name of the file or any memory content means I can't use it because it might leak company secrets (e.g product names).
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by timboslice on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:51PM (#9460754)
Then don't use it until it is stable. This is a preview release
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by emodendroket on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:33PM (#9461088)
What, you mean you don't use a bunch of preview products to work on your top-secret company code?
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by ianstallings on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @05:22PM (#9461894)
Somewhere at MS: "I told you this scheme would work! We finally got their product name. Send word to our team to begin immediately." rubbing hands together
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by frik on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:19PM (#9460498)
Visual Studio Online "Monaco" code editor from November 14, 2013 seems to be the predecessor: http://weblogs.asp.net/jongalloway/a-quick-look-at-the-new-v... (scroll half way down for many screenshots and videos)

"This is the Monaco editor component from Erich Gamma's group out of Zurich. It was originally written in JavaScript but gradually rewritten in TypeScript. When Anders speaks about teams within Microsoft building large TypeScript systems, this is one he is talking about" as one comment mentioned on a related article "It's also used in VisualStudio and IE11's new F12 tools.": http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ARichNewJavaScriptCodeEditorSp...

"Code uses a newer, faster version of the same industrial-strength HTML-based editor that has powered the “Monaco” cloud editor, Internet Explorer's F12 Tools, and other projects.": https://code.visualstudio.com/Docs

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by danesparza on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:55PM (#9460794)
It's not.

It's based on Electron: http://electron.atom.io/

(look at the bottom of the page)

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by frik on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:19PM (#9460983)
Wrong. It is!

Look at the VSCode-linux-x64.zip in dir "\resources\app\server\" there is a "monaco.impl.js". It's the "monaco" editor component that comes from Switzerland that is also used in Visual Studio Online.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by cwyers on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:13PM (#9460922)
Electron is just what lets you run a Node app outside of a browser.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by bndw on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:22PM (#9461008)
Digging into `Visual Studio Code.app/Contents/Resources/app/main.js` reveals the crash reporter.

``` // Handle crashes reporter.start({ productName: 'Ticino', companyName: 'Microsoft', submitUrl: 'https://ticinocrashreporter.azurewebsites.net/crash', autoSubmit: true }); ```

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by mattmanser on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:45PM (#9461183)
Sorry to nitpick but it's nitpick, not nick pick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_louse#Nits

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by rinon on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:02PM (#9460329)
I'm hoping this is only while it's in development/beta?
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by tomaskafka on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:20PM (#9460502)
Yep, that's what all Microsoft public betas and previews do. That's why they release them, to get data.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by click170 on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:35PM (#9461099)
I agree, there should be an option for that.

But for those who care about their privacy, IMO its approaching the problem from the wrong angle if you're trying to get some developer to change their code to respect your privacy. Its their code. They can do what they want.

We as users should have protections from them attempting to submit information we don't want leaked. To me the solution is better perimeter monitoring and filtering.

While not practical in many situations I would highly recommend filtering all outbound traffic using a new firewall that supports such features (Sophos UTM for one, PfSense for another). Its the only way to know for sure those requests don't get out even when there is a disable option.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by dmamills on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:18PM (#9460485)
Free tool comes with strings attached, so?
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by rylee on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:33PM (#9460607)
Free BETA program comes with a clause that you must submit crash data. Sounds fine to me.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by yueq on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:16PM (#9459888)
Those products were under development in Ballmer's time but it seems Satya took the credits.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by stephenr on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:30PM (#9460018)
You're suggesting that the same guy, who told his own kids "no you can't have an iPhone, iPod or iPad, you have to use a windows/zune/whatever device", and then after leaving Microsoft, bought a basketball team, and told them they could no longer use their existing Apple products, would have OK'd the release of a cross platform development tool...
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by chc on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:35PM (#9460052)
Ballmer was CEO for over 14 years, during which very little of this happened. While some of this was obviously being worked on under him, I find it hard to buy the idea that Ballmer did all the work and Nadella just swooped in and took the credit.
Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by aceperry on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:23PM (#9459954)
They may have been under development during Ballmer's time, but it's hard to believe that they would've seen the light of day under Ballmer's leadership. And if Ballmer released any open sourced products, I get the feeling that there would be major strings attached. And it would have a switch and bait sort of feel to it. Kind of like Oracle with Java and other technologies from Sun.

The fact is, Nadella has made open source a lot more palatable from Microsoft.

Re:Microsoft Launches Visual Studio Code, a Free Cross-Platf... by brettkc on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:20PM (#9459924)
Perhaps he was involved, if not leading many of the developments while Ballmer was running the show?