Also this visa in uncapped so giving visas to OF models does not take away anything from scientists and others.
O visa's original intent was to help pretty ladies from Eastern Europe to be brought into the country as indentured workers. That is why it is so easy to get this visa for an actor or a fashion model but very tough to get someone for their research.
So all this is working as intended.
From what I understand about OF, it's not just people posting lewds, sometimes there are other actors in the media.
Having access to established actors and uh... "collaborating" with them would require being there in person I would guess.
For there to be a special sex worker visa is a surprise, to me.
[1] https://www.pace-society.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/3194...
These days I wouldn't even be surprised to discover it was intentional. Some person or group wanted to ensure they could engage in sex trafficking with a superficially legal cover, but didn't want it to actually be legal.
As one said in a quote, regarding AI threat and crumbling economies: "The oldest profession will be the last profession."
If some of them want to move to the US right now, from currently healthier countries, one reason may be that social inequality means there are many deep-pocketed customers able to pay 5 figures for a weekend experience.
Those who come to the US with enough money on the bank will have access to a lifestyle and experiences that are becoming more and more exclusive, which makes for great content for the peasant class to consume on their phones.
Those at the top are doing very well, it's those without access to capital who are struggling. America in decline looks like a bifurcated economy where low-paying jobs catering to the desires of the wealthy take up an increasingly large share of the economy. You can decide for yourself to what extent this is already happening.
As an outsider, it's interesting to watch Nero play the fiddle while the rest of the world sanctions the US (except India and the Middle East and Taiwan). I think this is how the average Roman felt during Honorius' reign.
A world war meaning... the death of many / most Americans? That's quite the fantasy there.
It will also signal to the world that America is no longer world police, which means the Middle East, Japan and Taiwan will once again come under threat. The Middle East already foresaw this, which is why Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Pakistan are building a regional nuclear-enabled alliance, with open invitation to the other oil economies. Taiwan is most likely to get caught with their pants down, given the lack of US military support.
Interestingly, with the exist of the US from NATO, the largest military in NATO will be Turkey's, that country that Europe has long considered the unwanted bastard child.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greenland-tr...
Europe only needs to encircle and starve them, not fight them.
With what navy and air force?
When economic outlook is bad, it is generally the middle class and lower class that gets hit the hardest and women in these categories end up joining sin professions. Vegas always sees a big boom in 21 year olds in strip clubs when economy is bad.
Right now strip clubs are full of 35+ women why ? All the young ones are on OF. It is safer and much cleaner way of making money
- Life expectancy at birth is lower than nearly all other high-income countries
- Preventable and treatable mortality rates are well above the OECD average
- Adult obesity rate is the highest among peer nations
- Infant mortality rate is worse than most developed countries
- Maternal mortality rate is dramatically higher than other wealthy nations
- Suicide rate exceeds the OECD average
- Drug overdose death rate is the highest in the developed world
- Prevalence of multiple chronic diseases is unusually high
- Physical inactivity rates exceed those of peer countries
- Healthcare spending per capita is the highest globally while outcomes lag peers
Eg. a self-reinforcing cycle that you get the best from the other immigrant categories arriving because they choose the country where everything "seems to be happening".
Well Streamer vs Influencer can be different potentially, that said I can think of one example even for video game streamers, that being the AGDQ charity event where speedrunners/streamers do stuff live for charity at the event space.
An OnlyFans worker may make the bulk of her money by meeting fans in person for dates. That can't be done over the internet.
Both would build brand, but I’d imagine making it big on OF streamer has a much higher cap than making it big as an escort.
(i) is coming to the United States solely, principally, or incidentally to engage in prostitution, or has engaged in prostitution within 10 years of the date of application for a visa, admission, or adjustment of status,
(ii) directly or indirectly procures or attempts to procure, or (within 10 years of the date of application for a visa, admission, or adjustment of status) procured or attempted to procure or to import, prostitutes or persons for the purpose of prostitution, or receives or (within such 10-year period) received, in whole or in part, the proceeds of prostitution, or
(iii) is coming to the United States to engage in any other unlawful commercialized vice, whether or not related to prostitution
Obviously these people should be applying for EB-1s since that is the established visa program for prostitutes.
> An OnlyFans worker may make the bulk of her money by meeting fans in person for dates.
Just like film work (which it is a kind of, in a sense), any place can be an OF set, but you need a set and, for performances with more than one performer, you generally need the performers at the same set. Physical proximity to both sets that you want to use and other performers who you might do recurring joint performances with seem to have obvious utility.
Until they retire and need end of life Medicare which is very expensive.
That's why some countries like Dubai have devised a work visa system that lets people work for decades but never lets them become citizens so Dubai can kick out the moment they stop working, before they need end of life care.
That seems like something we should fix?
In my country prostitution is legal, but I think some countries are very hypocritical here about OF.
https://www.pathlawgroup.com/o1b-visa-requirements/
For all other candidates, at least three of the following criteria must be met in order to qualify for the O1B visa:
Having been or will be performing a lead or starring role in productions or events which have a distinguished national or international reputation (as evidenced by critical reviews, advertisements, press releases, publications contracts, or endorsements)
Critical reviews or other published material in professional or major trade publications or in the major media by or about the applicant which show that the applicant has achieved national or international recognition or achievements
Evidence of performance in a lead, starring or critical role for organizations or establishments with distinguished reputations
Evidence of a record of major commercial or critically acclaimed successes in the performing arts, as shown by box office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video sales
Evidence of significant recognition for achievements from organizations, government agencies, or other recognized experts in the field
Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other significantly high remuneration for services in relation to others
Other comparable evidence (This category is not available for those in the motion picture industry)
For an influencer... some number of anonymous followers?
There are certainly some that would qualify... but it they should be held to the same standards as others.
Their visa application content is rather silly/absurd:
https://www.tiktok.com/@boy.throb/video/7572273147743980831
But does it count then?
- Evidence of a record of major commercial or critically acclaimed successes in the performing arts, as shown by box office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video sales
- Evidence of significant recognition for achievements from organizations, government agencies, or other recognized experts in the field
- Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other significantly high remuneration for services in relation to others
You might be shocked to find out how much the performers being written about in magazines or discussed on TV shows is a direct line to the production company promoting them. Similar for awards.
I mean Payola as a term literally came from bribing DJs on radio stations to play your / your artist's music.
> > advertisements, press releases, publications contracts, or endorsements
> > box office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video sales
> > Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other significantly high remuneration for services in relation to others
I fail to see the distinction you are trying to draw. Commercial value and celebrity has always been one of the metrics of "achievement".
The overall gist is that the visa application should be someone who is not easily replaced by an existing local worker that can generate similar value.
8 CFR 214.2(o)(3) ( https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/part-214/section-214.2#... )
Extraordinary ability in the field of arts means distinction. Distinction means a high level of achievement in the field of arts evidenced by a degree of skill and recognition substantially above that ordinarily encountered to the extent that a person described as prominent is renowned, leading, or well-known in the field of arts.
Extraordinary ability in the field of science, education, business, or athletics means a level of expertise indicating that the person is one of the small percentage who have arisen to the very top of the field of endeavor.
Extraordinary achievement with respect to motion picture and television productions, as commonly defined in the industry, means a very high level of accomplishment in the motion picture or television industry evidenced by a degree of skill and recognition significantly above that ordinarily encountered to the extent that the person is recognized as outstanding, notable, or leading in the motion picture or television field.
This isn't a local worker thing (the H visas) but rather bringing the best and brightest from across the world to the United States.
https://www.hio.harvard.edu/o-1-visa-individuals-extraordina...
> The O-1 visa is a temporary work visa designated for individuals who have achieved and sustained national or international acclaim for extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business or athletics, or individuals who have demonstrated a record of extraordinary achievement in the motion picture and television industries.
> O-1 Extraordinary Ability visa status is reserved for those who are among the small percentage of experts who have risen to the top of their field. The approval of an O-1 petition by the United States Citizenship & Immigration Services (USCIS) decides whether an individual qualifies for O-1 classification. This classification requires a substantial amount of evidence. The O-1 is a very complicated visa category subject to high levels of scrutiny by the U.S. government. Due to the complexity, the O-1 visa is used very infrequently.
Photos don't win matches.
Also, it’s going to take more than a few thousand immigrants a year to affect the culture of a country as populous as America.
> Why should the government use antiquated-at-best moral codes to discriminate against people who will increase the global influence of the country
this is a very loaded statement that assumes that everyone is in agreement that proliferating and rewarding cam models is some kind of inherent good. there's nothing antiquated morally with simply not rewarding it. i'm not stating to ban it outright. there's always use in it at the long tail of society
You might not have any interest in adult entertainment, but that doesn’t mean the industry only exists in the “long tail of society”.
The problem with social taboos is rarely a moral one, and usually more that people feel embarrassed or scared to be open and honest.
And usually that stems from others being unreasonably judgmental.
And usually that stems from others being unreasonably judgmental.
You're using broad sweeping statements to argue with a point that I'm not even making.
First off, you're only assuming I'm making this argument because I don't have an interest in adult entertainment. I just don't believe it needs to be shoved into every facet of society. The industry certainly _does_ exist in the long tail, because there's literally nothing interesting in it aside from the fact that people use it to get off and move on with their lives. It's like taking a dump. Everyone does it, but I don't need to sit around a dinner table discussing it as if it's some high brow art. And I certainly don't want people to be treated extra specially because they excel at taking dumps.
My point was literally that it’s a bigger industry than you give credit to because it’s a topic that isn’t generally discussed in polite conversation.
But I don’t think this is a topic we are likely to agree on. So perhaps it’s better to agree to disagree.
I actually worked in the adult industry earlier in my career so have a better insight than most. and I can tell you that these models are just normal people like you an I. They aren’t interested in corrupting your children nor throwing wild sex parties in public spaces.
It turns out that American citizens can work in the adult industry too and it’s not just immigrants who are capable of earning money from getting naked on camera. ;)
I saw what you did there :D
RFK Jr., the current top health official in the US, is not interested in harming children either, and thinks he is doing a good public service: what is the reality though?
* https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/01/measles-continues-rag...
* https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/01/under-anti-vaccine-rf...
* https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/01/warning-about-bogus-a...
One's intentions and the results of one's actions can be two different things.
* https://acpeds.org/the-impact-of-pornography-on-children/
* https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/is-pornography-h...
* https://extension.usu.edu/relationships/research/effects-of-...
Plus the issues with JFK Jr are specific to him. It’s a bit of a stretch to imply that his view points are in any way related to his exposure pornography. That is unless “brain work” is some kind of euphemism I’m unaware of ;)
> One's intentions and the results of one's actions can be two different things.
Those articles mention just as many positives as negatives.
Porn isn’t inherently bad. It’s like alcohol, exercise, and other past times: moderation is the key.
Humans can get addicted to any kind of behaviour. The absolute worst thing you can do is make a topic a taboo because then you cannot keep people safe. This is as true for pornography as it is for weightlifting.
And frankly, hadn’t you got better things to do than worry about what consenting adults do in their private lives? It’s all a bit silly and prudish don’t you think?
Especially when you've got streamers using sites like Twitch, aimed at younger gamers, promoting their OnlyFans porn.
The regular porn industry is bad enough (https://traffickinghub.com/), but at least the content is non-interactive, there's no pretence of friendship/connection.
Just like people understand that the violence in movies is fake.
What makes an onlyfans contributor worse than an actor in a violent movie?
The comment you are replying to articulated, I think rather clearly, one reason why maybe we should.
I think what you actually mean is that the reasons not to ("sex work is unsavory") outweigh the reasons to ("sex work is going to happen anyway and if some of the people doing it move to the US then they will spend their money and pay their taxes in the US and contribute to the economy there").
Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but I don't think you should say "there's zero reason" when in fact there obviously are reasons and you just think other countervailing reasons matter more.
You say "We should encourage X over Y" and the retorts are
* "Y will still exist"
* "Y can still be encouraged separately"
* "You should tell me the difference between X and Y"
* "Hey, I found an X that sometimes acts vaguely similar to Y!"
The third one is a classic, the straw man. A concise implication of error in which a good-faith response would be long-winded and boring comparatively.
To what end?
What are they hoping to get out of disagreeing with someone trying to encouraging our future culture to be one of relative wholesomeness?
... Why take the time out of one's day to say "well... encouraging X is great and all but you know what's better? passive-aggressively working against anyone that suggests it."?
The original poster was clearly not making an analogy between professional soccer and only fans creators.
To be explicit, the comparisons were:
Cinematic actors -> TikTok creators
Victoria’s Secret model -> only fans creator
Pro soccer -> esports
I fail to see how the culture of our country will be negatively impacted by any of those changes. Comparing Cristiano Renaldo to OnlyFans is a straw man because that specific comparison was never suggested, except by the “rebuttal”
None of this is true, but boy, it sure does feel good to believe.
I wish you, and people in general, would be more willing to look for something like truth instead of whatever feels good at the moment.
I would argue that beyond basics like food, shelter and protection of human rights, we should strive for more noble pursuits as society. I'm not even religious whatsoever, but I think the proliferation of certain vices like sex/gambling/drugs is probably a net negative for society. They certainly have their roles in the long tail, but overall a society that is caught up in rampant dopamine chasing is a distracted, doomed society. We should always be yearning. We should be paving a road that is a better one for our future generations. Societal erosion is creating short term profit/happiness at the expense of long term thinking. America has become the king of this. You can see it everywhere, from the types of businesses people create (e.g pyramid schemes in the form of courses, or the shovel makers that create businesses to proliferate said pyramid schemes) to what is currently valued by the growing generation. I can keep going and going, but I'll leave it here. I hope I somewhat made my point. I'm sure many will disagree, and that is why this country is on its way downwards. The few smart will own and create a lot of value for themselves, we'll likely have a few trillionaires, and the majority will be bumbling idiots that can barely read. We're not there yet, but we're well on the way there
I don't think the same would apply to OF or porn. Totally different things.
Edit: And sure It's concerning that the society being shallow but OF and porn are just consequences not the cause. Without them we would have something else to turn important human experience(ie sex) into a commercial show and twisted it. Turn humans into tradable goods. Body commodification is just moral decay and the end of civilization! I think we already have such a thing called ... sports? Edit: professional sports
Sports is hard work, discipline, drive, often starting as a kid.
In actuality, both require you to sell your body, and both can have long standing health effects. If anything, I would say the typical OF model sells their body much less than an athlete. I mean, I don't think they're going to tear their ACL.
And also, both offer no real tangible value to humanity. Sports do not produce anything, neither does porn, they're purely for entertainment. A cashier at McDonalds is providing more absolute value to the world than even the most esteemed athlete.
That's not to say that athletes are bad, entertainment and games are important. But you can't just say one form of mindless entertainment is more valuable than another form.
I don't know if you'd want to marry a porn star, and if not, that should tell you what he difference is. This is one of those things which is "freedom" in theory but has many second order effects in practice.
The point is either reject all of them or treat them all equally.
I don't see a world where of star qualifies for that.
Everyone thinks rome will fall because of promiscuity. I just don't buy that weak morals, whatever that may mean, has a negative effect on society. Ultimately, these people do not hurt anyone and they push a lot of money into the economy.
It's just mindless entertainment. And, on the topic of skills: skills mean nothing. Being skilled is not enough, you have to be skilled at the right things.
Think of it this way: the skill of putting a ball through a hoop is one that is, objectively, worthless. There's no situation in modern life, or frankly even prehistoric life, where that skill would help you or create value.
It has value because we say so. We say "people want to watch this". If you take away the people watching, then the skill is beyond worthless. Worth less than even talking. Now, parallel this to porn, and you will see it's the same situation.
Do you actually believe this or are you just ragebaiting?
> That's not to say that athletes are bad, entertainment and games are important. But you can't just say one form of mindless entertainment is more valuable than another form.
Sport isn't mindless entertainment--that's just objectively false. The "dumb" entertainment you're speaking of is built _around_ sports (e.g gambling) while physical competition is as old as time. Porn is also the exact opposite of this. It's just a byproduct of entertainment and boredom/vice. For sports, humans have pushed themselves to the extreme limit through discipline for a millennia--which inspires many, creates stronger people, gets some out of poverty, or depression, or countless other things. The fact that you're comparing porn to sports or the most esteemed athletes to random low level cashiers at McDonalds in value creation for society tells me you're an advanced troll and I already just spent too much time replying.
And really, we absolutely glorify entertainment in our society. People look up more to Kim Kardashian or a Will Smith than a king. Athletes also but more because they bring in the "win" which is more entertainment. It's all about making you feel good about winning or the chance of it, and the Idea that you're part of it.
Yes, competition is important - but it doesn't produce anything. If I win a game, I haven't won anything other than the ability to say I've won the game. I didn't produce a good, I didn't cook food or blow glass.
Now, entertainment does create value around it. Taking attention can be used for advertising and admission. But the exact same thing is true of porn, and to the same if not greater extent.
I also don't buy the whole "discipline" angle. Yes, sports are hard and take practice. But you're making a morality argument. Just because something takes blood, sweat and tears doesn't mean it's good. Eating a couch takes discipline, too, just ask that one guy on My Strange Addiction.
The only reason, and I do mean only reason, we view porn as less valuable is because we think it's icky. That's it. But I don't particularly think that's a strong argument for anything.
The neat part is, with social media and global internet, culture are generally degenerating regardless of countries. If I were American citizen(gladly Im not) I might as well just let them in to get some tax money, and potentially see if the industry can be used as a soft propaganda machine. Just like Hollywood.
When someone describes themselves as an "influencer", it is entirely appropriate to ask what sort of influence they're having, and whether we want that.
It would be unwise to filter out the fun people. We'd all become a bunch of unfun nerds.
Benefit to the USA, being generous, is that those earnings of the camgirl may then be spent in the US instead of flowing overseas. At least some of it will.
Critics would rightly point out though that importing thousands of camgirls increases demand for apartments (and even more than the typical person because I bet they’re less likely to live with roommates than a typical woman of the same age) and we have a massive housing crisis in all cities. Maybe if the camgirls want to move to the rust belt or something, it could still work out net positive.
What I think is more likely to happen though with an immigrant OF model (who isn't in that elite earning tier) is that she meets a partner in the US, which affords her an exit strategy if she doesn't want to (or can't) keep doing OF forever.
As I understand it, from an O-1 visa (a temporary one that needs to be renewed every year after the third), the next step is the Employment-Based Immigration: First Preference EB-1 visa.
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent...
> You may be eligible for an employment-based, first-preference visa if you are an alien of extraordinary ability, are an outstanding professor or researcher, or are a certain multinational executive or manager. Each occupational category has certain requirements that must be met ...
An OF model isn't likely to fall under the "outstanding professors and researchers" or the "certain multinational executive"... so we're going with the extraordinary ability criteria.
> You must meet at least 3 of the 10 criteria* below, or provide evidence of a one-time achievement (i.e., Pulitzer, Oscar, Olympic Medal) as well as evidence showing that you will be continuing to work in the area of your expertise. No offer of employment or labor certification is required.
More on the specifics can be found at https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-6-part-f-chapter-...
After reading this... I'm going to say that it is unlikely that an OF model would meet the requirements for an EB-1 visa as a path to citizenship.
A benefit for the US is increased GDP, tax revenue, etc.
Not that I encourage it but... Obviously an OF model moving to the US means US users viewing that person now stop sending money abroad. And people from all over the world watching that model now send money to the US.
It's not just tax revenues: it's shifting the balance of money in the US's favor. If an OF model makes $10m a year and pays $2m in taxes, it's not just $2m in tax revenues for the US: it's also in addition to that $8m that are now spent/staying in the US.
> visas that were formerly reserved for performing musicians would not necessarily make sense
What the fuck?
Does anyone know on which work visa do models come in then? It can’t be H1B…
The H-1B1 visa is the one that we're mostly familiar with. Specialist occupations that require "[t]heoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge and [a]ttainment of a bachelor's or higher degree in a directly related specific specialty (or its equivalent) as a minimum for entry into the occupation in the United States."
The H-1B2 visa is for DOD Researcher and Development Project Worker.
The H-1B3 visa is for... Fashion Model
> The position/services must require a fashion model of prominence.
> To be eligible for this visa category you must be a fashion model of distinguished merit and ability.
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/h-1b-spec... (expand the eligibility criteria)
The specifics of the law are at https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/part-214/section-214.2#... - subsection 1 matches H-1B1, 2 matches H-1B2, and 3 matches H-1B3
> 8 CFR 214.2(h)(4)(i)(A)(3) - Will perform services in the field of fashion modeling and who is of distinguished merit and ability.
...are a member of scholarly/professional organizations;
...have published original research works scientifically and internationally (peer reviewed publications);
...that you have judged the work of others (supervised and/or examined Ph.D. candidates);
...that you have consulted to governments;
...that you have repeatedly been invited as guest speaker at conferences, trade fairs or universities;
...that you won major international scholarships and awards (e.g. best paper awards at conferences, Masters's/doctoral scholarships from prestigious universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard or MIT;
...that three referees that are themselves O-1 level equivalents deem you worthy of receiving O-1 status;
...that you are a named inventor on patent applications and granted patents;
...that you have received media coverage;
...that you abilities are reflected in higher than typical compensation/salary/remuneration;
...that you won major international scholarships and awards (e.g. best paper awards at conferences, Masters's/doctoral scholarships from prestigious universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard or MIT; or
...that you have published significant works (i.e., works that created impact through citations, business creation, or software systems using the methods described therein).
Usually, from an official ist similar to the above (which I re-wrote from memory here), three out of nine or so checkboxes is the lowest bar for an O-1, and if you tick all of them and work with a specialist law firm, then it should be a slam dunk; my O-1 took about six months from application to grant back in 2008 (no payments of any "expediting fees" if they exist were made as far as I know).
Dial M for Melania.
Whether or not those gatekeepers were right is another matter, but there was some guy in an office in a skyscraper who you had to impress, and if you did, you could get in.
Now, that guy's effectively gone. Aiden Ross, Jack Doherty - that kind of guy - couldn't have impressed a big wig. But now, they don't have to. They have to make people pay attention to them on YouTube/Instagram/TikTok/Twitch, and that's it. And they do that and they can get people to give them insane money to do so because they want access to that audience. Quality doesn't matter anymore.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/07/02/melania-trump-einstei...
HN is getting overrun, man.
edit: ironically to the person using a throwaway to yell racial slurs under me I do browse with [dead] visible because I find some of them amusing, more amusing than most of the throwaways even, though the funniest ones have seemingly stopped posting.
that's why they accept so much, the circulation of money would bring an enormous currency more than "traditional" job ever could
Sorry couldn’t help
Brian May (guitarist from Queen) who has an astrophysics PhD from Imperial College London
Professor Brian Cox who teaches Physics at Manchester University and is a public face of science of tv here in the UK was keyboardist for one-hit-wonder band d-reem who had a hit in the 90s with “Things can only get better”.
Brian May is really the only one who is a superstar musician but Brian Cox is a more significant scientist.
> The O-1 category includes the O-1A, which is designated for individuals with extraordinary ability in the sciences, education, business or athletics and the O-1B, reserved for those with “extraordinary ability or achievement”.
Then later it says
> The O-1B visa, once reserved for Hollywood titans and superstar musicians, has evolved over the years.
I understand those two aren't necessarily contradictory, but the wording of the first sentence paints a very different mental picture than the second one (at least it did for me), especially since they throw in the O-1A and then almost exclusively talk about people applying for the O-1B after that.
Personally, I don't want the US choosing to give visas to influencers over scientists, but if this visa was already being heavily used to bring in actors, musicians, and athletes I don't see what the hubbub is about. I don't use TikTok or OnlyFans and I don't find e-sports entertaining, but I have a hard time arguing that a screen actor, Victoria's Secret model, or soccer player should be worthy of a visa and a social media star, OnlyFans model, or a professional Counter Strike player shouldn't is not. It's all just entertainment.