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Re: by rubzah on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:57AM (#45448156)
There is simply no excuse for blocking the entry of food into a region wholesale. For that alone they should, at the very least, be an outcast in the international community. But here we are.
Re: by ProllyInfamous on Thursday October 02, 2025 @10:06AM (#45449775)
There is massive narrative deception from Israel... wake up world:

>“There is no famine in Gaza. Period,” the [Israeli] official said, adding that “Israel and the IDF are trying to strengthen the humanitarian situation in Gaza with partners.”

If you want to see what Netanyaho looks like when he's covering things up [lying] just watch the 2024 documentary The Bibi Files — about his corruption charges (which features over an hour of Netanyaho lying to investigators about his accepting roses and leaves [wine and cigars]) — complete with his shit-eating-grins galore...

Re: by tdeck on Thursday October 02, 2025 @11:03AM (#45450610)
World leaders know this, they're pretending not to see it. For example, the Biden administration set specific aid targets for Israel to meet and even acknowledged that they weren't being met by the "deadline" but neglected to impose any consequences.

https://www.propublica.org/article/biden-blinken-state-depar...

Israelis (including those who use this platform to repeat the same warmed-over genocide denials for the umpteenth time) know it's happening too. That's why the argument is usually 50% "it's not happening" and 50% "but they deserve it".

Re: by nostrebored on Thursday October 02, 2025 @12:55PM (#45452218)
Being pushed by world powers to provide aid to a regime that literally wants to wipe you from the face of the planet is interesting, don’t you think?

The idea that it’s only Israelis who think this is farcical is wrong and oddly conspiratorial.

Re: by tdeck on Thursday October 02, 2025 @01:21PM (#45452607)
Perhaps you could spell out what you're talking about?
Re: by wayeq on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:51PM (#45456047)
read the 1988 Hamas charter
Re: by ProllyInfamous on Saturday October 04, 2025 @09:35PM (#45478194)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Hamas_charter

>The charter defines the struggle to be against the Jews and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic Palestinian state in all of former Mandatory Palestine, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.

Okay, I read the wiki. My question is simple: why does Israel have the Right to "reclaim its historical territory," but the Muslim Brotherhood does NOT?!

If I were to continue this line of questioning, next would be: why does ANY religion have ANY right to wholely-rule ANY territory?

Re: by __loam on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:14PM (#45454087)
They're being pushed by world powers to provide aid for civilians that have been caught up in a war zone and who are being systematically starved to death, according to a lot of reputable organizations including Israeli human rights organizations.

If you want to discuss aid to the regime then maybe we can start with the suitcases of money Bibi's government sent Hamas for years because they thought a more extreme group would be easier to control.

Re: by dfxm12 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @10:13AM (#45449865)
That they have the backing and blessing of the US government is the counter-argument to this. The US can almost unilaterally end this war if they want to.
Re: by JohnFen on Thursday October 02, 2025 @10:20AM (#45449962)
How is that a counter-argument?
Re: by dfxm12 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @10:29AM (#45450094)
US has a lot of both soft and hard power globally. If you don't treat their puppet state with deference (and do treat it as an outcast), you can face consequences. The current US admin is using this as a stick against its own citizens, even.
Re: by JohnFen on Thursday October 02, 2025 @10:32AM (#45450146)
OK, but I still don't see how that's a counterargument to the proposition that "There is simply no excuse for blocking the entry of food into a region wholesale."
Re: by dfxm12 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @10:42AM (#45450277)
Oh, I reacted to GP's entire comment, not just the first sentence.
Re: by mhb on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:07PM (#45454862)
So can Hamas. Remember them?
Re: by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:21PM (#45455715)
> US can almost unilaterally end this war if they want to

Almost but not quite.

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Re: by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @07:15PM (#45456708)
> Israel fully controls USA (especially this administration)

This is the political equivalent of Flat Eartherism.

The 'Earth is a perfect sphere' take would be that there are significant numbers of Americans for whom Israel is a single-issue item, and significantly more for whom it's a top three. These voters can swing elections in Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia and possibly Michigan, and so are given a lot of deference by the Congress and President.

Re: by bdangubic on Thursday October 02, 2025 @10:48PM (#45458370)
yea, lets go with that, definitely we are involved in a genocide because of 7 voters in arizona.

additionally, neither party’s candidate can dare be “anti” israel so this is an election issue as much as … don’t even have a witty comparison for this :)

Re: by JumpCrisscross on Friday October 03, 2025 @03:07PM (#45466579)
> neither party’s candidate can dare be “anti” israel

Plenty do. They lost their primaries because most Americans don't want to be lectured on foreign policy while their grocery bills are going up.

Most Americans won't rank any foreign policy as a top-10 issue. Out of those that do, until very recently, most of them were passionately anti-China or Russia, pro-Israel or anti-Cuba. So those become electorally-salient divides.

You're now seeing, in Democratic politics, the winds sort of change. Hence less explicit pro-Israeli rhetoric from some electeds. But that still doesn't mean the median American voter cares about a war in Gaza more than they do their personal finances.

Re: by dataflow on Thursday October 02, 2025 @11:35AM (#45451110)
The claim I've heard them make is that the food aid is making it in, but being stolen by Hamas so that it can be resold at markup. How do you convince people that believe this that it isn't true (or is irrelevant)?
Re: by ndiddy on Thursday October 02, 2025 @12:15PM (#45451670)
If that was true, wouldn’t the best course of action be to let as much aid as possible into Gaza to flood the market rather than restricting the flow (therefore increasing prices) like Israel has been doing?
Re: by tguvot on Thursday October 02, 2025 @12:42PM (#45452055)
they divert more desirable things and force aid organizations to pay for "protection"

the only time there were news about hamas having cashflow problems (to pay salaries to fighters) was this summer.

Re: by tails4e on Friday October 03, 2025 @08:00AM (#45461931)
Exactly. The solutions can be as simple as this. Israel has the power to fix this, they choose to do the opposite
Re: by abdulhaq on Thursday October 02, 2025 @11:48AM (#45451291)
even if it was true, and the charities say it is not, would that make it OK to starve the people of Gaza?
Re: by _DeadFred_ on Thursday October 02, 2025 @12:17PM (#45451692)
Israel ensures the people of Gaza receive more food aid than the United States provided occupied Germany in the years after WW2.

Israel targets 3000+ calories into the area per person. The USA targeted 1500 into Germany, and 1000 for areas where airlifts were used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_in_occupied_Germany

War sucks. It sucks that the government of Gaza chose to start this war with Israel, especially as that government knew that a large amount of their people's food came through Israel and that war would impact those routes. During active ongoing conflict Israel is still providing more calories per person in Gaza than the allies did for years to post war/non-active conflict Germany.

Re: by hebelehubele on Thursday October 02, 2025 @12:44PM (#45452094)
Distribution points are hours of walking away from the majority of Gazans. Then you have armed forces shooting people seeking food.

From the article: https://imgur.com/a/rqW5m3w

Re: by nielsbot on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:45PM (#45453697)
And the GHF isn't even a real aid distribution NGO. Those exist! They're experts at this. Let them in.
Re: by abdulhaq on Thursday October 02, 2025 @12:41PM (#45452032)
Ethnic cleansing is deeply wrong, starvation as a tactic of war is horribly wrong, we all know what's happening, please have some respect for peoples' intelligence.
Re: by _DeadFred_ on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:09PM (#45454015)
Ethnic cleansing is deeply wrong. Starvation as a tactic of war is horrible and evil. But it doesn't sound like people here do know what is happening.

The CNN article gives the low calorie consumption amount as 1400.

The US, in post war Germany, doing it 'the right way' according to history, targeted (so many received lower) 1500 calories a day. Or 1000 a day when airdropped.

According to the CNN article, Israel's action during an ongoing conflict is about par with how the US did it for years in post war Germany. And remember Germany is much larger than Gaza, so people had much larger distances to cover. Those that couldn't be reached received airlifts that only targeted 1000 calories per day.

War sucks. It sucks that the government of Gaza chose to start a war. What we are seeing is the impacts of that. And it is awful. But it's also in line with the conditions in post WW2 Germany, arguable one of the best historical treatments of an aggressor by victors over it.

Germany isn't referred to as a starvation, but as a successful reconstruction. It is the 'norm' to which people speak when they speak of how to treat an aggressor population when they lose to victors. It is the literal 'norm' that people are calling for in Gaza. I only looked into it because people here were pointing to it as how Israel should be acting in Gaza on last weeks Gaza story. And I was surprised to find that Israel is acting within that established norm.

Re: by yibg on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:54PM (#45454683)
I'm not sure why this is important to the discussion. The important question is: are people in Gaza starving or not? If they are, I couldn't care less what we did during WW2.

Secondarily, just because there was a guideline during WW2 that was deemed "the right way", it's the result that counts. Were people starving in Germany post WW2? If so that was wrong then too.

Re: by hdlothia on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:15PM (#45454955)
It was wrong to fight to end the holocaust because nazis were starving? How is war supposed to work in your mind.
Re: by _DeadFred_ on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:41PM (#45457384)
The Red Cross sets a floor of 1500 calories within the USA, lower than the floor Israel sets for Gaza. Does the Red Cross starve American's/use food as a weapon?

https://emergency.lacity.gov/sites/g/files/wph1791/files/202...

The UN itself has cut food distribution/caloric intake in Kenya (in need in huge part because of war refugees from Sudan) in half, is the UN using food as a weapon? The UN is saying it wants to provide aid at a much higher level to the people of Gaza than it provides to the people in Kenya.

Re: by DiogenesKynikos on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:15PM (#45455655)
> Starvation as a tactic of war is horrible and evil. But it doesn't sound like people here do know what is happening.

The problem for your argument is that Israeli leaders have publicly said over and over again that they are intentionally starving the Palestinians in Gaza.

> 1400 was a specific time/event and the worst case CNN listed.

Israel let in 0 calories for months on end. They have blocked the UN from providing food aid, and have attempted to completely destroy the main UN agency providing food in Gaza. When Israel does let food in, it is only in response to international pressure. If the Israeli government thought it could get away with killing every last Palestinian in Gaza, it would.

Re: by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:10PM (#45457157)
> Israeli leaders have publicly said over and over again that they are intentionally starving the Palestinians in Gaza

To be fair, Israeli leaders can be quoted saying just about anything, same as in pretty much any democracy. What matters is which leaders are saying what, what authority they have, and what's happening on the ground.

Re: by DiogenesKynikos on Friday October 03, 2025 @02:37AM (#45459732)
The Israeli Prime Minister and Defense Minister are not just random, low-level people with no authority who are shooting the breeze.

Nobody who has followed the news over the last two years can seriously claim that this isn't Israeli policy. Did Israel block all aid shipments for months earlier this year by accident?

Re: by JumpCrisscross on Saturday October 04, 2025 @08:19AM (#45472781)
Sorry, didn't realise it was attributed to their comments.

> Nobody who has followed the news over the last two years can seriously claim that this isn't Israeli policy

Eh, it's fair to say there isn't an Israeli policy. Same as there isn't a Palestinian one. We have a black box in Hamas and around Netanyahu.

Re: by DiogenesKynikos on Monday October 06, 2025 @10:10AM (#45491650)
Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant: "We are imposing a complete siege on Gaza. There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel, everything will be closed. We are fighting against human animals, and we are acting accordingly."[0]

CNN: "Israel says it will block Gaza humanitarian aid until Hamas agrees to new conditions"[1]. This official announcement came directly from Netanyahu's office. After this announcement, Israel blocked all humanitarian aid to Gaza for nearly 3 months. What's particularly remarkable is that this came after Hamas agreed to a ceasefire and hostage exchange. Netanyahu exchanged the first few batches of hostages, and then refused to continue as previously agreed. He demanded that the entire deal - which both sides had already agreed to - be renegotiated, and blocked humanitarian aid as a means of applying pressure.

Israeli Finance Minister Bezalael Smotrich: "No one in the world will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though it might be justified and moral in order to free the hostages."[2]

I could go on, but you get the point. You can't possibly claim that this isn't Israeli government policy or that we have no way of knowing what the top Israeli leaders think about the matter.

0. https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2023/10/9/israeli-d...

1. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/02/middleeast/israel-halts-g...

2. https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/08/israel...

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Re: by potatototoo99 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:53PM (#45454670)
All the more reason they shouldn't support doing it to others, and yet many do.

And population growth looks the same everywhere in the world: the poorer the country, with less access to health care, less job security, independence and opportunities for women, the higher the birth rate.

Re: by etchalon on Thursday October 02, 2025 @01:45PM (#45452924)
Palestinian children are not paragliding in and murdering people.

Even if they could, they're too malnourished to do so.

Re: by abdulhaq on Thursday October 02, 2025 @01:07PM (#45452399)
Fortunately the world has woken up and the coming generation sees the truth.
Re: by yibg on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:04PM (#45454819)
1. The "war" did not start on Oct 7.

2. Even if a country's government starts a war, that doesn't not justify war crimes. This is why they're called war crimes.

3. Pointing to what allies did 70+ years ago doesn't mean anything.

Re: by _DeadFred_ on Thursday October 02, 2025 @11:41PM (#45458718)
The source of the food scarcity being discussed started on Oct 7th though when the government of Gaza chose to kill over 1000 people, maim/injure/torture/rape thousands more, and kidnap many (including the approx. 6 year old girl they posted videos on the internet of themselves kidnapping from her house, they were so proud they posted video of kidnapping a little girl from her home). That all happened starting Oct 7th.
Re: by quantified on Thursday October 02, 2025 @12:51PM (#45452182)
If that's true, they are doing their best to ensure it's not working. Maybe Israel should airlift it over populated areas.
Re: by _DeadFred_ on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:31PM (#45454330)
The USA only target 1000 calories per day for airlifted populations in post war Germany. The CNN article lists 1400 as the low calories intake. So Gaza is still 400 calories a day above 'doing it the right way' post war German reconstruction numbers for hard to reach areas.

The 1400 calories are the number people are actually consuming, not unavailable. It is the whole point of the article.

Re: by quantified on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:08PM (#45454879)
Those are just published numbers. Doesn't matter if they're placed where they can't be gotten.
Re: by DiogenesKynikos on Thursday October 02, 2025 @12:48PM (#45452145)
The Allied occupying powers tried as hard as they could to get food into Germany. Israel is intentionally blocking food from getting onto Gaza. There's a massive difference.

> War sucks.

That's an awfully glib way of justifying deliberately starving a civilian population. Saying "war sucks" doesn't make it okay to commit war crimes.

Re: by _DeadFred_ on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:33PM (#45454367)
People keep saying Israel needs to follow the norms. The Allies actions in Germany ARE WHAT ESTABLISHED the norms. THEY ARE the norms people are calling for. I only read about them because people here on HN last week called that Israel needed to behave the same as the US in post war Germany. But now that they are inconvenient to a narrative I am downvoted/flagged/told they are irrelevant. Because I read and posted more detail on what people on HN were actively calling for.

The Allies did not. This is the number for years decided by bureaucrats, not just immediately after surrender. Go read the articles. The Allies decided on a number based on what they felt their home populations were willing to accept not on 'what they could get in'. And the Allies are considered to have been generous and done it the right way even though they made such considerations and limited supplies. It was until a year after the wars end that the allies allowed third party aid agencies for children into Germany. That was limiting aid, by choice. Just as the target calories were limited, by choice not capability/capacity.

All I know is the article's worst calorie number (1400) for a specific month is around the US allocated amount for many Germans during the initial 3-4 years of post war occupation and higher than those in remote areas of Germany.

Instead of being called crimes, what the Allies did is the basis of establishing the norms people here seem to want followed, and considered one of the better cases of treatment/outcomes. But when I point out the actual real 'norms' to have a discussion around I am downvoted, flagged, and attacked.

Re: by yibg on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:01PM (#45454781)
I don't quite understand why you keep pointing to post WW2 as a justification.

For 1 we should be looking at results and the situation on the ground, not the guidelines for what's "the proper way to do things". Were people in Germany starving or not, are people in Gaza starving or not? If the answer to either is yes, then it is / was a problem.

Secondly, what we consider ok changes over time. Go back far enough and killing prisoners, taking civilians as slaves etc were all considered ok. We frown on those now.

Re: by _DeadFred_ on Thursday October 02, 2025 @11:47PM (#45458769)
The Gaza thread on HN last week was talking about how Israel needed to fit to norms. That Israel needed to be like the US in Germany. Which is what got me looking into numbers. I think it's relevant as the Allies in Germany are where the current norms come from.

The Red Cross considers 1500 the floor for the US: https://emergency.lacity.gov/sites/g/files/wph1791/files/202...

not that much to the minimal amount of 1400 the CNN article found occurring. Horrible I agree, but not that far off from the Red Cross floor for aid distribution with the USA.

The UN provides much less calories (currently 552 to refugees from Sudan's war) yet says it can provide more than Israel in aid Gaza. Is the UN anti Sudanese/Kenyans because it claims to have food for 2 million on hand yet won't feed the starving 800,000 in Kenya? If it has food for Gaza's 2 million that is isn't giving out, how can it justify not giving at least part of that to the smaller 800,000 war refugees in Kenya? The UN itself says it's a crime not to give out food in those higher quantities if there are stocks of it. The UN has stocks. The UN does not give those stocks out to those in need, only giving 552 calories.

Re: by DiogenesKynikos on Friday October 03, 2025 @02:39AM (#45459752)
Maybe you should take a look at the IPC report, which details exactly how they know that Gaza is in the middle of a deliberately created, man-made famine.

Kenya has the ability to grow food. Gaza doesn't. Israel has destroyed 100% of the farmland and shoots anyone who walks around freely outside of a tiny fraction of the Gaza Strip.

Re: by potatototoo99 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:54PM (#45454687)
The allies' crimes were 80 years ago. Israel's crimes are ongoing.
Re: by AlotOfReading on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:42PM (#45455297)
The allies did not consider 1000 calories an acceptable dietary intake post-war. Here's a report from the Berlin blockade:

https://doi.org/10.2307/4588157

Quote:

    Our clinical and other observations convinced us that 2,000 calories a day was a bare minimum and sufficed merely to keep the population at a subsistence level.
Where "bare minimum" refers to a community with high numbers of women and children doing little exercise or labor. They observed malnutrition in people consuming 1800 calories daily and recommended substantially more than 2000 calories for people doing hard labor.
Re: by _DeadFred_ on Thursday October 02, 2025 @11:43PM (#45458737)
Go ahead and read here and the many reports cited. The USA settled on 1000 for when airlifts were required, and 1500 otherwise. And wanted to use a lesser number originally. Your article if from 1951, not contemporary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_in_occupied_Germany

The Red Cross has settled on 1500 as the floor in the US.

https://emergency.lacity.gov/sites/g/files/wph1791/files/202...

Re: by AlotOfReading on Friday October 03, 2025 @01:48AM (#45459447)
If you had read literally the first line of the article, you would see that it discusses the 1948-1949 years of the blockade. The wikipedia article you're citing covers the 10 years after 1945, which includes those years. Even if the years didn't overlap, human nutritional needs obviously didn't double in 6 years.

Of course, if you had read the wikipedia article you would have seen these lines:

    The Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force initially set the ration scale for Germans at 11,000 kJ (2,600 kcal) per day... Once the occupation of Germany commenced, it proved impossible to deliver the intended levels of food...As a result, once supplies which had been stockpiled by the German government during the war ran out, the ration scales were reduced to 4,200–5,200 kJ (1,000–1,250 kcal) per day.
So they didn't set the number to 1000 out of a principled stances about nutritional needs, it was what they could manage actually deliver given the enormous logistical and infrastructure limitations of the blockade.

The LA city (not Red Cross) document is much the same. Again, you've failed to read literally the next line in a document because the Red Cross is cited with the proper figure immediately after the "1500 calorie" figure:

    The Red Cross suggests 2,000 to 2,500 calories per person, per day.
You can also look at virtually any paper ever published on human caloric needs. A population average of 1400 calories/day is famine. For context, in 2021 they had 1800 calories/day available (https://www.gisha.org/UserFiles/File/publications/redlines/r...), which is less than Somalia or South Sudan in the same period according to the latest numbers (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-per-capita-caloric-...).
Re: by magicalhippo on Thursday October 02, 2025 @12:26PM (#45451814)
Re: by viccis on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:45PM (#45453699)
Hamas actually cleaned house of a couple of the leaders of these gangs recently.
Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @12:45PM (#45452110)
Would reporting from the NYT citing Israeli military officials saying that this didn't happen on any notable scale help convince people?

No Proof Hamas Routinely Stole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Officials Say

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un...

Re: by dlubarov on Thursday October 02, 2025 @12:57PM (#45452247)
The UN's own data (https://app.un2720.org/tracking) shows 86,531 pallets were intercepted, while only 26,772 pallets arrived at their intended destination.

We don't know many of the interceptions Hamas was behind, but that isn't really important.

Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @01:01PM (#45452300)
> We don't know much many of the interceptions Hamas was behind, but that isn't really important.

Sure it is when Israel is funding other groups that are known for stealing aid. It changes the entire narrative.

Israel backs an anti-Hamas armed group known for looting aid in Gaza. Here’s what we know

https://apnews.com/article/gaza-armed-groups-hamas-israel-lo...

Re: by timeon on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:28PM (#45453476)
Is 0 better than 26,772 pallets?
Re: by dlubarov on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:50PM (#45453772)
Who is suggesting making it 0?
Re: by goatsi on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:15PM (#45454094)
The Israeli government in March of this year. And it wasn't a suggestion, it was an implemented policy.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/02/middleeast/israel-halts-gaza-...

Re: by itsnowandnever on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:26PM (#45454259)
are you doing okay? you're all over these comments in a manic way trying to refute something people can see with their own eyes
[dead]
Re: by buyucu on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:24PM (#45456331)
Yes, I see Israeli terrorists who have been committing mass murder for decades.
Re: by bigyabai on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:18PM (#45456277)
Either side of the conflict could say this and be 100% justified in their accusation. That's what people "see with their own eyes" if you needed some perspective.
Re: by 4gotunameagain on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:29PM (#45455822)
First of all your own link clearly states "Intercepted: Either peacefully by hungry people or forcefully by armed actors, during transit in Gaza".

Secondly, nobody can tell who intercepted what, it could very well be that the IDF is intercepting them covertly.

Re: by dlubarov on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:11PM (#45456223)
That's just spin; there's no way to peacefully intercept the vehicles. The drivers don't stop because a hungry person asked politely.

> it could very well be that the IDF is intercepting them covertly

This seems like a pretty farfetched conspiracy theory. There are smart phones and other cameras all over Gaza, and zero evidence of this.

Re: by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @07:43PM (#45456938)
> That's just spin

No it's not. Driving trucks full of food through hungry crowds will absolutely result in "shrinkage." That doesn't mean they're all Hamas.

Re: by dlubarov on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:44PM (#45457407)
These are interceptions of trucks, not people grabbing a few items as a truck passes by.

I didn't say they're all Hamas; again the relevant thing is that they're being intercepted and not making it to ordinary civilians.

Re: by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:47PM (#45457430)
Top comment: "The claim I've heard them make is that the food aid is making it in, but being stolen by Hamas so that it can be resold at markup."

> the relevant thing is that they're being intercepted and not making it to ordinary civilians

Hell of a straw man. People care that the aid is getting to militants. Israel said it was getting to Hamas. That's the justification for limiting aid. If it's not getting to people who are shooting at Israeli troops, then it's not a security risk to provide more aid.

Re: by dlubarov on Friday October 03, 2025 @12:23AM (#45458962)
The strawman is that Hamas is intercepting all the aid. Sure people occasionally say that, but you're attacking an oversimplification of the real underlying points, which are that

- Groups of men with rifles tend to be belligerents in the conflict, even if we can't say definitively if they're with Hamas, PIJ or some smaller gang. Israel doesn't want an aid program where the bulk of the aid goes to their literal war enemies.

- Even if some of them are "civilian armed gangs" and not actual belligerents, the aid they steal still isn't getting to civilians (except when it's sold at extortionate prices). Hence the shift to GHF which, while it has its own problems, does actually deliver most aid to ordinary civilians for free.

Re: by JumpCrisscross on Friday October 03, 2025 @07:22AM (#45461598)
> Groups of men with rifles tend to be belligerents in the conflict, even if we can't say definitively if they're with Hamas, PIJ or some smaller gang

Granted.

> Even if some of them are "civilian armed gangs" and not actual belligerents, the aid they steal still isn't getting to civilians

Sure. Now where is the evidence that most of the aid is being pilfered by armed anyones?

Re: by SilverElfin on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:45PM (#45455336)
There’s no “proof” but that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. The pallets that never made it to people in need didn’t magically disappear. There is also a history of Hamas stealing aid that goes back MUCH longer than the post-October-7 conflict:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip#Feb...

Re: by dataflow on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:54PM (#45455440)
I have no idea. I've heard a lot of "just because a minister says it it isn't true, do you believe everything Trump or congresspeople say?" in response to what ministers say. That, and the usual "the media (particularly mainstream, like NYT) is lying/anti-semitic/etc." So I imagine the reply would be the same.
Re: by alwa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @01:58PM (#45453110)
In conditions of desperation, aren’t the strong people with the guns always the last to starve?
Re: by barbazoo on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:08PM (#45453250)
It is irrelevant. Israel shouldn't block other countries from sending whatever aid, obviously making sure there's no arms.
Re: by YZF on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:38PM (#45453607)
Through most of this war Israel has let other countries send aid to Gaza [1][2]. For example it allowed the US to build a pier for food delivery, it allows foreign airplanes to airdrop food into Gaza, it allows trucks from Jordan to deliver food to Gaza [3].

What is happening though is that the UN is under-reporting the amount of aid for political reasons [4]. The UN is also refusing to cooperate with Israel/US led efforts to provide aid. [5]

This last one from the anti-Israeli side basically accidentally tells the whole story: "The UN and major aid groups have refused to cooperate with the GHF, citing concerns that it prioritises Israeli military objectives over humanitarian needs." which is that the UN is prioritizing it's anti-Israeli agenda over the needs of the Gazans. I.e. if Israel's goals of eliminating Hamas and returning the hostages are in conflict with the Gaza civilian population's needs then the UN will side with Hamas.

I'm also curious if you can give me other examples of countries that enabled wartime supply through their territory if this is so obviously something that should happen. Israel does have a responsibility for sure but the bar you are setting for it is unreasonably high, it's not required to facilitate any country sending whatever aid during a war. Israel's critics (if we can even call this that) are ignoring the ongoing war and the responsibility of Hamas, the elected government of Gaza, to their citizens and their choice to continue the hostilities and continue to hold hostages. They're also ignoring the role of Egypt (as they have been even before this war) in blockading Gaza and not enabling civilian and refugees to escape the war, something that is virtually unprecedented (e.g. in the Syrian civil war Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey all allowed Syrians to leave the war zone) and is purely politically motivated, i.e. they are willing for Gazan civilians to suffer so they don't appear to be helping Israel in any way.

[1] https://www.npr.org/2024/05/26/g-s1-1069/aid-trucks-begin-en...

[2] https://gaza-aid-data.gov.il/mainhome

[3] https://jordantimes.com/news/local/jordan-sends-over-8600-ai...

[4] https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/cogat-knocks-un...

[5] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/6/13/united-nations-slam...

Re: by viccis on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:56PM (#45453840)
>it allowed the US to build a pier for food delivery

You mean the one that Israel was caught on camera using to help carry out a raid (the Nuseirat refugee camp massacre) that killed 276 civilians and injured over 600? And then promptly disintegrated after spending only 20 days distributing 1/5 of the aid actually needed?

How magnanimous of them. Why don't we send them another billion off our paychecks to fund their free healthcare to thank them?

[dead]
Re: by lejalv on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:32PM (#45454339)
You live on stolen land, it's egregious that you decide who is to live or die.
Re: by snapetom on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:36PM (#45455238)
Jews are the indigenous people of Israel. The archaeological records and excavations is clear on that. The leftist and white guilt that ignores that and subverting the definition of Zionism is disgusting.
Re: by bigyabai on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:19PM (#45456286)
The late Harlan Ellison contested this narrative throughout his lifetime: https://youtu.be/P6gtHQGbXmM?t=194

  All of you guys out there in the Middle East are out of the same melting pot. And you're all as crazy as a butterfly on absinthe. I don't know whether you're all Canaanites at the base, or you're all Jews at the base, or out of the Land of Nod, or whatever the hell you were at the get-go, "semites" or whatnot. But you've been fighting it out for something like eight thousand years! And you've never had five minutes of quiet and peace! You're forever killing each other, and sticking knives in each other, and burning babies - and the world has had to suffer with this.

  Great things have come out of the Middle East - great things like the *Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam* - but *stupidity* seems to be your chief export! Stupidity, and violence, are your cash crops. All you.
Re: by viccis on Sunday October 05, 2025 @02:52AM (#45479401)
He was also a pedophile.
Re: by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:51PM (#45457459)
> Jews are the indigenous people of Israel

Literally doesn't matter. Dead people don't get a vote on where who can live. The people alive today live where they do and will fight to keep from getting displaced. The sooner folks can understand that the sooner we might see peace.

Re: by snapetom on Thursday October 02, 2025 @11:55PM (#45458804)
It's you people that's using the terms "colonizers." Of course it matters. Changing definitions willy nilly in the face of evidence is how authoritarianism starts. Very hypocritical of your kind.
Re: by JumpCrisscross on Friday October 03, 2025 @05:10PM (#45467816)
> you people that's using the terms "colonizers.”

Who people?

Re: by viccis on Sunday October 05, 2025 @02:48AM (#45479379)
They are not. They were banished centuries BC by their own God per their own scripture. The Palestinian people are the indigenous ones fighting against waves of Eastern Euro trash immigrants fleeing Europe during the 20th century.
Re: by SilverElfin on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:50PM (#45455391)
Great. So why did Gazans elect Hamas to power in 2006? Their charter includes things like eliminating Israel, people of all other religions, subjugating women, etc. It doesn’t seem like they wanted to decide who is to live or die. And by “they” I don’t just mean Hamas but the population that put them into power and still supports them today. Hamas is the one who attacked Israel with rockets for more than a decade. Their actions caused numerous intermittent blockades that affected residents of the area. It seems like they are content deciding who gets to live or die both in Israel and in the Gaza Strip. But somehow the comments here don’t seem to acknowledge this.

Remember, there have been several two state solution offers in the past. None were accepted by the Islamic Arabs who now call themselves “Palestinian”. Because they aren’t content with coexisting. They want to eliminate Israel and take over the entire region of historical Palestine. That’s what “from the river to the sea” means.

Re: by ipaddr on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:09PM (#45456209)
Why did Gazans elect Hamas to power in 2006?

Great question because Hamas was funded by Benjamin Netanyahu in the 90s because he feared the peaceful PLO would become too powerful and result in a two state solution.

Knowing this does this change your position or have you decided on a viewpoint that you will push regardless.

If what I just said was true (and it is) Benjamin Netanyahu put them in power. Doesn't that change everything for you?

Debating that two state solutions were offered and other Arab states not supporting a two state solution because they wanted everything restored to before the world wars victors carved up the world and took away their piece is worth debating. But that's not why Hamas exists.

Benjamin Netanyahu disparate needed an enemy a group violent and extreme. Benjamin Netanyahu setup a strawman.

Hitler's Nazi party in the begining use to send men in to attack an area create chaos then use that justification to take over that area to protect them. Scared people obey.

Re: by Hikikomori on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:22PM (#45455728)
Netanyahu supported Hamas, classic divide and conquer strategy. "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas... This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."

Hamas changed their charter in 2017 and supported the 1967 borders. Israel does not.

This entire situation has been engineered from the start by Zionists to take over and ethnically cleanse the area. This plan goes back to Ben Gurion.

Re: by dlubarov on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:42PM (#45455957)
> "Anyone who wants to thwart ..."

That's an unverified quote which Netanyahu denied saying.

> Hamas changed their charter in 2017 and supported the 1967 borders.

First it's only certain Westerns who like to frame it as a new charter, while Hamas never used such language and never recanted their original charter.

More to the point, Hamas' 2017 document accepts the concept of a state along 1967 borders, presumably as a stepping stone, "without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity", i.e. while still demanding "the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea".

> Israel does not.

There's nothing sacred about the 1967 armistice line in particular, but the 2ss offers Israel made in 2000 and 2008 would have been pretty close.

Re: by stefan_ on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:25PM (#45455768)
Everyone on this fucking planet lives on stolen land. Nobody wants to hear it anymore. Go build a productive society in where you find yourself.
Re: by lejalv on Friday October 03, 2025 @02:54AM (#45459845)
This particular piece of land was stolen, using terrorism and forced displacement among other colonial techniques, as recently as 1948, and some of the beneficiaries and victims are still alive.

You need to hear “it”, again because “it” is the foundation of civilized coexistence.

Re: by viccis on Sunday October 05, 2025 @02:54AM (#45479407)
They stole this land within a century using the first cases of modern terrorism against the British and then eventually the Arabs. They're old enough to be forced to not only give it back but work hard labor to rebuild it for its original inhabitants.
Re: by potatototoo99 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:43PM (#45454518)
Have Israelis also decided their hostages were the price they wanted to pay for occupying Palestine?
Re: by Zironic on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:34PM (#45454382)
The sheer blatant disregard for human life you exhbit is staggering.
[dead]
Re: by Hikikomori on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:24PM (#45455754)
Hamas wanted to negotiate the release of Palestinian prisoners in Israel, that it why they took the hostages. Israel decided that their citizens were not worth the price and Zionists used the opportunity to expedite the genocide.
Re: by Sabinus on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:41PM (#45455949)
There is currently a deal on the table to get thousands of those prisoners released in exchange for the ~30 hostages and Hamas has refused. Hamas' by far largest goal is pressuring Israel, not saving civilians.
Re: by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:48PM (#45457440)
> Hamas wanted to negotiate the release of Palestinian prisoners in Israel

No it didn't. The hostages are leverage only for Hamas, not the Palestinians. Unilaterally cede the hostages and Israel would be put into a really tough spot.

Re: by dotancohen on Friday October 03, 2025 @05:56AM (#45461065)
The sheer blatant disregard for human life that Hamas exhibits is staggering. They could end the suffering today by returning the hostages. The fact that they do not, tells you all you need to know about the society that UNRWA education enabled.
Re: by viccis on Sunday October 05, 2025 @02:46AM (#45479366)
Israel doesn't understand "human" life and never will.
Re: by cthaeh on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:26PM (#45454258)
if you could press a button that would return all hostages but at the cost of 276 Palestinian civilians per hostage recovered, you would do it.

Just pointed it out for the normal folks here. Israelis are pretty radicalized.

Re: by dotancohen on Friday October 03, 2025 @02:51AM (#45459832)

  > if you could press a button that would return all hostages but at the cost of 276 Palestinian civilians per hostage recovered, you would do it.
Yes, I would. The Gazans should understand that and not attack us.

If your daughter was held captive by Gazans, would you not sacrifice 276 of those who vow to eradicate you, in order to save your own daughter?

Re: by viccis on Sunday October 05, 2025 @02:49AM (#45479382)
That's why you are subhuman and not fit for modern society. You are literally posting Nazi opinions about favoring the complete eradication over other races as preferable to a risk to your race.

Remember that the editor of Der Sturmer was hanged at the Hague!!!

Re: by goatsi on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:35PM (#45454400)
I'm glad to see you use "most of this war", acknowledging that Israel has at times totally blockaded all food and medicine from Gaza (and not for logistic or military reasons, but as a pure pressure tactic as stated by Israeli officials).

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/02/middleeast/israel-halts-gaza-...

And it's true, Israel is not required to accept aid from other countries for Gaza. They could instead provide the full required resources for civilians in the occupied areas themselves.

Re: by nielsbot on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:44PM (#45453682)
> For example it allowed the US to build a pier for food delivery

"allowed"

The pier was never going to work. Israel should just allow aid in via the normal ways. Notice that Israel controls all the borders of Gaza and they're the ones preventing food from coming in. Not to mention destroying all the farmland in Gaza too.

Re: by Qem on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:23PM (#45454207)
> Not to mention destroying all the farmland in Gaza too.

There's a report by forensic-architecture on that: https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/ecocide-in-g...

Re: by nielsbot on Thursday October 02, 2025 @07:45PM (#45456954)
Thank you.
[dead]
Re: by HDThoreaun on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:58PM (#45456102)
No it cant because israel controls the borders and isnt letting any arms in. It can be used to pay terrorists but Israel just has to live with that. If they are confident aid is being used to pay terrorists the correct move is not cutting off aid its defending the aid
Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:02PM (#45455524)
Who is in Gaza right now selling arms?
Re: by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:16PM (#45455665)
> Who is in Gaza right now selling arms?

Aid can be used to pay fighters. That doesn't justify blocking aid. Just that there are military reasons to be careful about how it's distributed.

Re: by justin66 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:09PM (#45453256)
> How do you convince people that believe this that it isn't true

It's not like the Gazans have any money to speak of.

> (or is irrelevant)?

If the way to prevent starvation is to flood the zone with food shipments, it's a moral imperative to do that. That it will also help keep the enemy fed is entirely beside the point, since causing starvation is not a legal or ethical form of warfare.

Re: by Ray20 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:22PM (#45453398)
> It's not like the Gazans have any money to speak of.

This is more of an argument in favor of the other side. It immediately becomes clear why they don't have the money.

Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:40PM (#45453638)
20 years of economic warfare where all exports were banned as a mechanism for destroying their economy being a primary reason.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100612001046/http://www.mcclat...

Re: by tguvot on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:05PM (#45455554)
un data showing hundreds of trucks exporting goods from gaza every month:

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/crossings

Re: by jacobgorm on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:07PM (#45454864)
See this Tucker Carlson interview with a former US special forces colonel who worked distributing aid in Gaza https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QRjEMbHXM4Q
Re: by tguvot on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:25PM (#45456338)
the one that was fired for misconduct, begged to get his job back and threatened that he will become their nightmare in case they don't rehire him ? sounds very reliable.

https://ghf.org/press-briefing-ghf-addresses-personnel-matte...

Re: by jacobgorm on Friday October 03, 2025 @06:23PM (#45468530)
GHF trying to wreck his reputation seems like a textbook move.
Re: by tguvot on Friday October 03, 2025 @06:42PM (#45468666)
so they fabricated all his email/messaging exchanges, etc but everything that he says is completely credible ? right ?
Re: by PoignardAzur on Saturday October 04, 2025 @06:26AM (#45472283)
That's what the GHF claims, yes. To be clear, they haven't shown any documentation showing that he was fired, while Aguilar did show letters and messages sent by GHF hailing him as a great colleague and saying they were sad to see him go.

The only material evidence GHF has shown are small chunks of SMS conversations that are perfectly compatible with the "Aguilar was trying to convince GHF leadership to change policies" hypothesis, and WhatsApp broadcast of Aguilar telling his staff they were doing a great job.

Meanwhile, Aguilar has multiple photos and videos showing the conditions aid was distributed in which you can see right now on Youtube, testimony of seeing the GHF security contractors firing into crowds (to which the GHF replied by saying its contractors only fired above crowds, still a Geneva Convention violation), statistics that showed that people got shot during every single GHF distribution, matching testimony from Palestinian doctors and journalists and IDF whistleblowers, etc.

The evidence is overwhelming unless your curiosity cuts off as soon as you read the GHF damage control statements.

Re: by tguvot on Saturday October 04, 2025 @11:49AM (#45474182)
ain't it comfortable that there are 2 sets of videos.

given that there is "statistics" (comfortable provided by hamas) of people getting shot during every single distribution, do you find it strange that there is not even 1 video of people actually getting shot en masse ? surely someone would have thought that it will be amazing video evidence that will be easy to make, as it happens daily, and a way to make israel look real bad, yet - nothing. the only video that comes close to it is when bullets very precisely hitting absolutely nothing few meters away from people.

with regards to " IDF whistleblowers", in case you missed the memo, the famous haaretz article with whistleblowers was mistranslated from hebrew. in hebew was used expression with meaning of "shooting at air/ground to prevent advancement". it was translated to english as "shooting at people". haaretz got it's 13 pieces for this

Re: by PoignardAzur on Tuesday October 07, 2025 @08:37AM (#45502347)
> "shooting at air/ground to prevent advancement"

Yeah, guess what, that's still a breach of Geneva Conventions.

(Also basic common sense. The golden rule of gun safety is "Never point the gun at anything unless you intend to kill it", there isn't a "but shooting just over their heads is perfectly okay".)

Re: by tguvot on Tuesday October 07, 2025 @02:11PM (#45506643)
so, you concur that there is no actual evidence of IDF actually shooting at all those people despite it supposedly happening daily for few months at same location with hundreds of "dead and wounded" ?
Re: by PoignardAzur on Wednesday October 08, 2025 @06:18AM (#45514375)
No, I don't.

First, Israel has consistently denied journalists access to those distribution sites, so the only video evidence we should expect to find are from civilians. Civilians who are in the middle of a stampede and getting shot at do not, as a general rule, stop to bring their smartphone out and film whoever is shooting at them (usually footage of shootings is filmed by people in buildings, obviously doesn't apply here).

The best video I could find is this one, showing people cowering and shots landing between them: https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2025/7/15/video-sho...

That's a really tight crowd, and bullets are clearly landing very close to them. Even if we assume nobody was hit by a stray bullet (which I find very improbable), that's still an egregious breach of the Geneva Conventions. Also, it seems similar to a pattern Aguilar described: IDF soldiers shooting at sand mounds, not realizing/caring that their bullets had enough penetration to go out the other side and kill people.

As for non video evidence, we have: photos of wounded people being taken away from GHF sites, testimonies of Gazan doctors who treated people of all ages wounded/killed by 7.62mm M80 bullets, testimonies of international doctors saying the same thing, a video published by Aguilar where we hear a SRS contractor bragging about hitting someone during a distribution, whistleblower testimonies, Gaza Health Ministries statistics (which the IDF treats as reliable, according to IDF leaks), UN statistics, and a mountain of testimonies from Gazan residents.

But if the only "actual" evidence you accept is video evidence in an area where the IDF is forbidding journalists, then the best I can give you is the link above.

Also, I'm stopping this discussion here, because the bullshit asymmetry principle is at play here: it took you 10 seconds to write your "there's no evidence because I say so" comment, and it took me one hour to sift through the media reports to write this rebuttal.

(Though for what it's worth, I do wish the evidence was better collected, and not scattered across MSM reports. In particular, I wish Aguilar had published a full dump of all the photos and videos he took.)

EDIT: This site aggregates social media reports related to the Gaza war. Some of them include footage of dead people near GHF sites, though none I could find that included the moment the person got shot.

https://www.info-res.org/project/israel-gaza-war/

Re: by zippothrowaway on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:18PM (#45455693)
What's the best way of reducing this markup if it were true? Not sending in aid (no supply = lots of demand) or flooding the area with aid?

Seems to me, if the claim is true, Israel is trying to give Hamas more power, not less.

Re: by Humorist2290 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:59PM (#45456122)
Then Israel severely limiting the amount of food is helping Hamas by artificially, and cruelly, limiting supply. People want to feed their families and will go to great lengths: sell their valuables, harm others, or wait in line at a Gaza Health Ministry site with the knowledge the IDF might fire into the crowd.

If they flooded Gaza with food then Hamas would benefit less from the supposed stealing/reselling.

Re: by emmelaich on Thursday October 02, 2025 @10:23PM (#45458191)
How could it be irrelevant?
Re: by Veserv on Thursday October 02, 2025 @01:51PM (#45453009)
Honest question, why can it not just go through the 14 km border with Egypt? Is Egypt also blocking access for food and aid?
Re: by arnsholt on Thursday October 02, 2025 @01:54PM (#45453055)
Because the Rafah crossing is currently controlled by the Israeli army. Egypt can allow all the aid it wants, it’ll still get stopped by the Israelis.
Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:11PM (#45453277)
And even before then, Egypt's peace with Israel (and Egypt's subsequent ~$1B/yr in defense aid from the US) depends on playing nice with Israel in several respects, including deferring to Israeli policy on the Gaza border.
Re: by cogman10 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:03PM (#45453938)
There's also the fact that Israel has been bombing aid trucks and killing aid workers and burying them alive.

Before May 2024, Egypt was the primary route for aid to get it, but getting from Southern Gaza to northern Gaza was incredibly dangerous.

Re: by tguvot on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:58PM (#45455481)
according to UN data egypt was primary route only for a few months following october 7th, as all of Israeli border was an active war zone:

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/crossings

Re: by FridayoLeary on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:00PM (#45453901)
Not that it's ever prevented smuggling. Curious where all of hamas weapons are coming from.
Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:09PM (#45454011)
There has been smuggling of course, but (perhaps unintentionally) Israel gives them most of what they use.

> But recent intelligence has shown the extent to which Hamas has been able to build many of its rockets and anti-tank weaponry out of the thousands of munitions that failed to detonate when Israel lobbed them into Gaza, according to weapons experts and Israeli and Western intelligence officials. Hamas is also arming its fighters with weapons stolen from Israeli military bases.

> “Unexploded ordnance is a main source of explosives for Hamas,” said Michael Cardash, the former deputy head of the Israeli National Police Bomb Disposal Division and an Israeli police consultant. “They are cutting open bombs from Israel, artillery bombs from Israel, and a lot of them are being used, of course, and repurposed for their explosives and rockets.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-h...

Re: by FridayoLeary on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:29PM (#45454306)
Also repurposed infrastructure like water pipes and lamposts. But they had plenty of weapons and explosives pre war, before egypt sealed their border to gaza.
Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:39PM (#45454465)
The explosives are the part that obviously should be given the main focus.

And quite a bit of what's being talked about wrt to re-manufacturing Israeli unexploded ordance was stockpiled prior to Oct 7th. Israel did not start bombing Gaza only after Oct 7th (and in fact had been bombing Gaza as late as Sept 23, 2023).

Re: by throw0101d on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:33PM (#45454363)
> Not that it's ever prevented smuggling. Curious where all of hamas weapons are coming from.

Gaza is on the ocean: they could have been brought in via boat.

Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:40PM (#45454480)
To be fair, Israel has had a complete naval blockade of Gaza for some 20 years, and is probably the more effective part of their blockade.
Re: by protocolture on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:59PM (#45456589)
Well documented that Hamas has people dig up pipes to make rocket/mortar systems.

Otherwise the answer is largely tunnels.

Re: by YZF on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:13PM (#45453302)
Re: by Ozzie_osman on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:57PM (#45453848)
These articles are from over a year ago and they all say that Israel took control of the Rafah border.

"On May 7, Israeli forces seized the main border crossing at Rafah, closing a vital route for aid into the besieged enclave."

Understandably, the Egyptian government does not want to coordinate with the Israeli government after seeing how the Israeli-organized aid sites have been going.

Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:32PM (#45453518)
It is both.

That being said Egypt being complicit doesn't make any of this better.

Re: by sirfz on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:19PM (#45453369)
Are you implying that aid would otherwise be allowed by israel via Rafah?
[dead]
Re: by YZF on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:42PM (#45453662)
Why did Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Europe, Canada etc. take Syrians during the war in Syria but Egypt (and everyone else) refuses to allow civilian Gazans to escape to safety?
Re: by ahmedfromtunis on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:01PM (#45453921)
My country hosted the PLO in the 80s and was almost outcast by the rest of the Arab world.

Harboring them was seen by some people as an indirect support to Israeli efforts to push Palestinians out and take over their land.

To this day, any talk about allowing Palestinians to move en masse out of their territory, even as refugees, is at best a very controversial move.

Re: by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:10PM (#45455607)
> Why did Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Europe, Canada etc. take Syrians during the war in Syria but Egypt (and everyone else) refuses to allow civilian Gazans to escape to safety?

Spitballing here, but it might be continued unease about Arafat. He weaponised the Palestinian population in Lebanon [1] and Jordan [2] in ways that would make it politically untenable for them to accept Palestinian refugees.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_insurgency_in_Sout...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

Re: by limpbizkitfan on Thursday October 09, 2025 @03:43AM (#45524724)
Escape to safety? Do you mean, have their land stolen?
Re: by boxed on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:36PM (#45453571)
It's funny how when Israel stops aid it's a genocide and when Egypt does it it's Israels fault or.. you know.. somehow the jews...
Re: by nashashmi on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:48PM (#45453738)
Distinguish between Israelis and Jews. Otherwise you will tarnish both. And Jews in the US are not as supportive of the genocide as Israelis are.
Re: by boxed on Friday October 03, 2025 @12:50AM (#45459097)
Reread my comment. I was being sarcastic against anti-semites.
Re: by yard2010 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:14PM (#45453307)
"What interest they have to come to such place"
Re: by Alupis on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:29PM (#45455817)
Egypt has made it fairly clear they want nothing to do with Gaza and Palenstine. I don't believe they would send aid or allow crossings anyway.
Re: by buyucu on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:39PM (#45453618)
Israel controls that border.
[dead]
Re: by layer8 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:21PM (#45453384)
Anyone who characterizes a whole population as “evil” (including around a million children) automatically disqualifies themselves.
Re: by lupusreal on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:08PM (#45453246)
Do zionists really view the Palestinians as the party which is the most analogous to the Nazis in this situation? Fucking wild.
[dead]
Re: by viccis on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:59PM (#45453892)
>If the entire world supported Israel after Oct 7 and condemned Hamas, they would have surrendered right away

There was never a genocide as widely supported as Israel's genocide they started immediately after killing a ton of their own people on Oct 7 at a music festival that suddenly moved next to a military target they totally surely definitely didn't know Hamas had been planning to attack over the course of years, and then immediately (literally) burying all the evidence of their self massacre.

Re: by xdennis on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:39PM (#45455272)
> killing a ton of their own people on Oct 7

This is how ridiculous things have gotten. HN has quite civilized discussions, and even here people are blaming Jews for Oct 7 and getting upvoted for it.

I wouldn't be surprised if in a few more decades there will be another Holocaust in the West.

Re: by viccis on Sunday October 05, 2025 @02:39AM (#45479344)
They are literally on camera killing their "people", and they buried a ton of evidence to hide it. They also have documented execution of Hannibal Directive. This is all objectively documented. You don't have to launch into nebbish histrionics about literal facts.
Re: by buyucu on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:38PM (#45453606)
And this didn't start in 2023. Gaza has been under Israeli blockade for decades.
Re: by jameshilliard on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:52PM (#45453791)
> And this didn't start in 2023. Gaza has been under Israeli blockade for decades.

The blockade was also imposed by Egypt[0] and Hamas certainly provided no shortage of security related justifications for the blockade. Unfortunately those security concerns turned out to be accurate[1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_7_attacks

Re: by lejalv on Thursday October 02, 2025 @03:37PM (#45454442)
Unfortunately Netanyahu actively encouraged Qatar to send cash to Hamas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

> In February 2020, former Mossad Director Yossi Cohen and Israeli general Herzi Halevi, under Netanyahu's orders, went to Qatar to plead Qatari officials to continue the payments for Hamas.[8] Later, in September 2023, David Barnea, the Director of Mossad since 2021, went to Qatar to meet Qatari officials to discuss about the payments for Hamas.[10][44]

(...)

> Israeli intelligence officials believe that the money had a role in the success of 2023 Hamas-led attack.[10]

Re: by jameshilliard on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:24PM (#45455081)
> Unfortunately Netanyahu actively encouraged Qatar to send cash to Hamas.

Yeah, Benjamin Netanyahu certainly got complacent thinking he could keep a genocidal terrorist group like Hamas under control with that strategy. Qatar and their support for terrorists has long been a problem as well.

Re: by ashirusnw on Thursday October 02, 2025 @07:58PM (#45457058)
It wasn't just him, all the governments for the last decade tried to keep the peace while enforcing the blockage but allowing cash for salaries, humanitarian aid etc which made Gaza flourish with hotels, restaurants, beach resorts and high end shopping (see the videos). All no longer :(

A few months prior to October 7th, Natenyahu had allowed the highest number of work visas for Gazans to work in Israel proper. They genuinely thought economic prosperity would bring an slowdown and eventual end to terrorism. Now try and find Israelis who support the idea of 10s of 1000s Palestinians cruising the borders for work each day - thanks to Oct 7th.

Doesn't quite fit the narrative you want to portray, does it?

Re: by JumpCrisscross on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:13PM (#45457178)
> Gaza flourish with hotels, restaurants, beach resorts and high end shopping (see the videos)

What videos?

Re: by nickff on Thursday October 02, 2025 @09:38PM (#45457833)
Not OP, but there were many videos posted, (especially early on in this conflict,) depicting very nice neighborhoods and commercial districts in Gaza (some of which were in the process of being destroyed or abandoned).
Re: by lejalv on Friday October 03, 2025 @02:44AM (#45459790)
I guess “generalized ban on travel” a.k.a. “open air prison” fits better.
Re: by lupire on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:57PM (#45455469)
The October 7 attacks only succeeded because Netanyahu opened the military border to let them in.
Re: by jameshilliard on Thursday October 02, 2025 @11:20PM (#45458590)
> The October 7 attacks only succeeded because Netanyahu opened the military border to let them in.

Do you also believe 9/11 was an inside job? Both claims are IMO equally unrealistic.

Re: by rzk on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:36PM (#45457353)
> Unfortunately those security concerns turned out to be accurate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy

Re: by mupuff1234 on Thursday October 02, 2025 @02:43PM (#45453667)
The level of blockade now is on a whole other level.

Not to mention that the blockade was enforced by Egypt as well.

Re: by SilverElfin on Thursday October 02, 2025 @04:45PM (#45455326)
It’s not been under a “blockade” for even a year continuously. Literally earlier this year, hundreds of trucks carrying aid were allowed in per day. That was during the ceasefire that didn’t last. If you go back to the history of blockades of Gaza you’ll see it was very intermittent. And when things were tightened, it was in response to incidents like Hamas rocket attacks.
Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @05:00PM (#45455505)
The requirement is about five hundred trucks per day of food (so each truck feeding about four thousand people). The fact that on rare occasions they'd let in about half that isn't really a point in your favor.
Re: by ashirusnw on Thursday October 02, 2025 @07:53PM (#45457025)
Untrue. Your quoting total imports (eg concrete that was largely misappropriated to build Hamas tunnels). The amount of food delivery on average is comparable to before the war.
Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:12PM (#45457175)
I am not.

Before the war Gaza had the ability to produce much of its own food. To subsist totally on imports, about 500 trucks a day is what's needed.

Re: by tguvot on Thursday October 02, 2025 @06:07PM (#45456195)
un own statistics site https://www.ochaopt.org/data/crossings

food tracks fluctuate between 2000 and 3000 a month prior to oct 7th. a few more dozens of of tracks with "non-edible consumables" and "medical supplies". rest of tracks are construction materials

Re: by monocasa on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:14PM (#45457190)
Gaza at the time had farms as well as a small fishing industry, and thus needed fewer imports to feed the population.
Re: by tguvot on Thursday October 02, 2025 @08:28PM (#45457276)
iirc, gaza farms and fishing provided less than 10% of calories to population. animal farms were dependent upon imported animal feed.

ps. good chunk of farms were actually not for gaza consumption but for export (to israel and other places). stuff like strawberries, some leafy greens, etc. but in general farming in region is hard. there is no water. droughts been severe. Israel survives by desalinating majority (80%) of potable water (and supplying it to jordan, west bank, gaza) and recycling 90% of waste water for use in agriculture.