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Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by CharlesW on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @09:03PM (#44957726)
This should've been an .agents¹ with an index.md.

For tiny, throwaway projects, a monolithic .md file is fine. A folder allows more complex projects to use "just enough hierarchy" to provide structure, with index.md as the entry point. Along with top-level universal guidance, it can include an organization guide (easily maintained with the help of LLMs).

  index.md
  ├── auth.md
  ├── performance.md
  ├── code_quality
  ├── data_layer
  ├── testing
  └── etc
In my experience, this works loads better than the "one giant file" method. It lets LLMs/agents add relevant context without wasting tokens on unrelated context, reduces noise/improves response accuracy, and is easier to maintain for both humans and LLMs alike.

¹ Ideally with a better name than ".agents", like ".codebots" or ".context".

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by skybrian on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:30PM (#44958399)
Except not hidden. Why do people want to hide important files and directories? Particularly documentation? Tradition, I guess, but it's an antipattern that makes everything more opaque.

Maybe robot_docs?

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by animal_spirits on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:12AM (#44958563)
It's so it doesn't clash with any project that actually has a functional `agents/` directory
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by globular-toast on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:48AM (#44958984)
Another reason to use a src/ directory for the actual source code.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by oblio on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:30AM (#44959230)
Or accept the fact that we're in 2025 and not follow Unix conventions from when paper and printer ink were expensive and they were printing out listings, and just name the thing "source".

I've gotten used to it, obviously - as someone with a career in IT for 20 years - but /etc & co. annoy me to no end. I know it will never change, I know why it won't change, I know GoboLinux will be just an interesting experiment, but it's still annoying.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by wahern on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:51AM (#44959331)
we're -> we are

I've -> I have

& -> and

co. -> company

won't -> will not

it's -> it is

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by csvm on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:29AM (#44959558)
What is the point of this? What is this adding to the conversation?
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by Pavilion2095 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:43AM (#44959637)
Fun.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by mannycalavera42 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @04:34AM (#44959928)
upvote
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by jadamson on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @06:11AM (#44960496)
What I took out of it is that we are human, and humans use abbreviations to save time and effort, not because printer ink was expensive in the '70s.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by oblio on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:56AM (#44962545)
The abbreviations I wrote are unambiguous. When I first learned about Unix, I basically guessed - I assume as most first timers do - that the folder is basically the location of miscellaneous files ("et caetera").

Oh, let alone the fact that a bunch of the abbreviations are utterly non-intuitive to first timers.

/bin - binaries - nobody born after circa 1980 calls them that anymore. Executables, applications, apps, etc.

/boot - from a lame Baron Munchausen joke from 1970. Should probably be /startup.

/dev - dev is SUPER commonly used for "development". Easy enough to solve as /devices.

/home - okish, probably one of the best named that are actually in there. I'm shocked it's not /ho or /hm.

/lib - reasonable. Though these days in the US it might trigger political feelings :-p

/media - new and reasonable.

/mnt - the whole metaphor of "mounting" is... debatable.https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/144012-unix-sex/

/opt - what does this even do? Optional? Optional WHAT? Absolutely 0 semantic info provided by the name.

Anyway, a lot of people have done this criticism better than me and it's boring at this point.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by jadamson on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @11:58AM (#44963100)
> The abbreviations I wrote are unambiguous. When I first learned about Unix, I basically guessed

They're completely ambiguous to someone who doesn't speak English.

> /mnt - the whole metaphor of "mounting" is... debatable

What? Have you never heard of mounting a picture on a wall? Mounting an engine? That's the metaphor.

> Anyway, a lot of people have done this criticism better than me and it's boring at this point.

Your original complaint was about "src", suggesting calling it "source", which is still ambiguous by your own standard. Source of what? How is someone going to know what "source" means if they've never heard of booting a computer? Who is the audience for this change?

Some of your suggestions aren't meritless, but your jumping-off point certainly was.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by oblio on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:05PM (#44965141)
> They're completely ambiguous to someone who doesn't speak English.

The baseline is English and that's life. I'm not a native English speaker.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by oblio on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:40AM (#44959622)
LOL ROFLMAO
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by Lockal on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @07:10AM (#44960761)

  /usr -> Program Files (hello spaces my old friends, you've come to break my apps again)
  /var -> ProgramData (but no spaces here)
  /home -> Documents and Settings
  /etc -> Control Panel
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by codedokode on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @11:52AM (#44963038)
Spaces break things only in Lnux; Mac and Windows support them since beginning. Why should we write without spaces as if we were in 5th century?
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by jadamson on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:25PM (#44963345)
Spaces are avoided on base Linux systems because they're clunky for terminals more than fear of outright breaking things. To the extent spaces there do break things, that also happens on Mac and Windows for the same reasons (hence ProgramData being conspicuously space-less).
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by tracker1 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:09PM (#44963197)

    /home -> Users (it's not 1998 anymore)
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by von_lohengramm on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:51AM (#44959332)
Have you considered that there are other metrics people are optimizing for nowadays? Perhaps typeability, screen real estate, familiarity/convention, etc.? Do you really want /User Files/Bob's Files/Coding Projects/Python Projects/Bob's Cool Python Library/Source Code/Model Files/SomeObject.py?
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by Propelloni on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:18AM (#44959488)
Path length is still a thing in MS Windows, so be careful ;)
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by tracker1 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:13PM (#44963231)
Depends on the WinAPI used... I still use C:/src instead of C:/Users/MyUser/src for that reason when working in windows all the same though. Too many unixy utils don't leverage the apis with the longer path, not to mention not supporting the internal certificate store and proxy config.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by oblio on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:42AM (#44959634)
1. Yes, I have, if you re-read my comment.

2. I don't want to fight extreme positions which I did not make. Read this:

https://gobolinux.org/at_a_glance.html

I didn't say paths have to have spaces, etc. Just be reasonable and <<use full words in the year of our lord 2025>>.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by jadamson on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @06:29AM (#44960579)
The first shell listing starts with `cd` and `ls`, the former being run in `~`. What does that weird `~` mean? Very strange.

More seriously, their file system is still case-sensitive, and inside /Programs they have `Iptables` and `Fontconfig`, naively capitalized, but also `OpenOffice` and `HTTPD`.

Not to mention that inside each program folder are `man` and `bin` as usual. I'm going to suggest the point of that article is structure and organization, not naming.

Nobody reasonable complains about a three-letter abbreviation you can type with one hand. For a path you're either accessing a lot or never at all, it makes complete sense.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by eadmund on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @06:34AM (#44960603)
Anything with a capital letter requires hitting two keys: Shift and then the desired letter. Thus /Programs requires 10 keystrokes rather than 9. Even worse, since the capital letter is at the beginning of the directory name, I have to type it and am unable to rely on tab-completion.

/Programs with its ten keystrokes is over twice the keystrokes of /bin and its four. Short names are quicker to type and require less effort. Given that to a first approximation I spend my entire life typing on a keyboard, I very much wish to optimise that experience.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by Timwi on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:44AM (#44962429)
That's really more the fault of the tab completion. There's no reason why it couldn't complete `prog` to `Programs`. It's just Unix tradition that they don't. I would prefer if they did.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by fragmede on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:26PM (#44963354)
In ~/.inputrc, add

    set completion-ignore-case on
to enable case insensitive tab completion in bash.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by Gracana on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:15PM (#44963836)
Great tip! Apparently that's readline's config file, so this will affect a lot of things. That's great news for me; after switching to zsh I got used to case-insensitive tab completion, and now it annoys me when other tools don't work that way. This should help a lot.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by oblio on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:55AM (#44962533)
Your problem is solved by naming the thing /programs, instead. End of the world using full words, I tell ya!
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by HumanOstrich on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @08:51AM (#44961484)
I think paths need to have emojis too in order to represent the emotional state of the person who created them in the year of our memelord 2025.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by codedokode on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @11:50AM (#44963012)
What's wrong with spaces? Macs support them since 80s. The only problem with spaces is caused by *nix, *nix shells, basically by Linux.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by animuchan on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @06:32AM (#44960596)
While we're at this, let's make it rich text please. I want the important filenames to be in bold italic Comic Sans MS.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by globular-toast on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:59AM (#44959742)
Call it whatever you like. I don't care and that clearly wasn't the point of my comment.

One thing I've learnt, though, is unless you have a very good reason to try to change language you should just talk the same language as everyone else. I don't like the American short billion. It makes no sense and it's less useful. But that's what I use because I speak English and that's what we use now. If I see a src/ directory I know exactly what it is. If I see source/ it will give me pause. Get over it IMO.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by oblio on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:54AM (#44962527)
> If I see a src/ directory I know exactly what it is. If I see source/ it will give me pause.

Pause for what, coffee? How does this even make sense?

What could possibly be inside source/, if not the exact same thing as in src/?

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by von_lohengramm on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:04PM (#44963721)
While the meaning of "source" may be intuitively obvious, it's still relatively unfamiliar as "src" is far more prevalent than "source" when referring to source files. While "id est" may be equivalent to "i.e.", you'd still naturally pause when reading text using the former instead of the latter, because the latter is far more prevalent in usage than the former.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by pompous_1234 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @04:50AM (#44960012)

    $HOME/accept/the/fact/that/were/in/2025/and/not/follow/unix/conventions/from/when/paper/and/printer/ink/were/expensive/and/they/were/printing/out/listings/and/just/name/the/thing/source/main.c
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by HumanOstrich on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @08:49AM (#44961468)
/Library/System/Applications/Core/Security/Daemons.app/Framework/Version 4.6.2/Let's not go full Apple please.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by ceejayoz on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:12AM (#44959124)
That won't save you if you want actual example.com/agents/foo routing and an (say, real estate) agents list at example.com/agents.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by onion2k on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:29AM (#44959217)
I feel bad that you're getting downvotes. The reason is that pretty much every modern web stack decouples the URL routing from the source code directory structure these days. It was a nice hack back in the day, but there are so many problems with it no one really does it any more.

Some frameworks (Laravel, NextJS, etc) map from the directory structure to routes, but that's just a mapping rather than actually exposing the directories on the server. You can have /src/agents accessible as /agents. Or you could have /alice/bob/agents accessible through /agents. It's all just build tooling and web server config at the end of the day.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by ceejayoz on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:33AM (#44959246)
That's my point. Having your code in `/src` doesn't mean some of that code doesn't still have routing at `example.com/agents`. It doesn't have to be a real directory.

A `.agents` directory (or routing pretending to be one) is nice because you are fairly unlikely to ever have user-facing `example.com/.agents` as a URL.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by andrewingram on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @06:15AM (#44960515)
These files also generally work in a nested fashion, like .gitignore and the like. So you want something that can be injected into the namespace of any directory in your project with relatively low likelihood of conflicts.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by johnmaguire on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:00AM (#44961544)
How about an underscore instead?
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by verdverm on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:20PM (#44963300)
Not exactly (or unclear), .gitignore files combine, much like copilot files with glob or other matching. All the instructions are put into the context

> Agents automatically read the nearest file in the directory tree, so the closest one takes precedence

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by globular-toast on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:19PM (#44965315)
Fair. I didn't think about that.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by kevincox on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:48AM (#44961928)
That's just an argument for having a more distinctive name.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by nephanth on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:13AM (#44959131)
It is files that are meant to be read by software, not humans. From my point of view this seems like a prime candidate for a hidden directory?
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by deadbabe on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:38AM (#44959269)
If it isn’t being read by humans, then it shouldn’t be written by them either.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by grim_io on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:02AM (#44959392)
Yeah. Claude writes my CLAUDE.md

I don't really care what's inside.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by overfeed on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @04:55AM (#44960035)
What is the intended meaning - it reads like a non-sequitur to me. ie "If adults aren't riding school buses, they shouldn't drive them either"
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by fleebee on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @05:50AM (#44960365)
It's configuration for software. If I want to be in control of and understand how my tools work I need to read (and write) those files.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by nephanth on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:32PM (#44964031)
Of course but configuration for software is exactly what hidden files are usually used for
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by numpad0 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:47AM (#44962461)
Except they are. LLMs don't have (simulated)self image of bloodless machines, and behave slightly erratically if treated like one, despite trained to identify as such. They like to be treated like the Voyager EMH than the computer.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by skybrian on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:57PM (#44963640)
Why not both? Sure, it was written for the LLM, but since it’s in English and meant as a concise summary, you will learn things by reading it.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by nephanth on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:30PM (#44964009)
If that is the case then why call it Agents.md instead of integrating it with already existing documentation files or calling it something like "Summary.md"?
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by jppittma on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @08:01AM (#44961067)
Because you're not an (llm) agent and they're not for your consumption? You probably don't need the context in those docs.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by HumanOstrich on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @08:35AM (#44961356)
Where are they hidden that you are having trouble with? I've had an alias for `ls` that always includes dotfiles and `shopt -s dotglob` in my bash profile for decades. Mac Finder is a little more obnoxious with having to do `Meta+Shift+.` to reveal dotfiles.

Other than that, modern tooling like Git and IDEs do not "hide" dotfiles.

These days, a `.` in front of a file or folder in a repo is more to indicate it is metadata/config. Although I am in favor of putting all that stuff under `.config/`.

> Maybe robot_docs?

No thanks.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by p1necone on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:09PM (#44958309)
I've been trying to keep my baked in llm instructions to a terse ~100 line file, mostly headered sections with 5 or so bullet points each. Covering basic expectations for architecture, test mocking, approach to large changes etc. I can see why for some projects that wouldn't be enough but I feel like it covers everything for most of mine.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by numpy-thagoras on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:33PM (#44958413)
Would you be open to sharing this here?
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by p1necone on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:21AM (#44959174)
Here you go:

  # ASCII RPG

  This repo uses Rust + Bevy (0.16.1), multi-crate workspace, RON assets, and a custom ASCII UI. The rules below keep contributions consistent, testable, and verifiable.

  ## Quick rules (read me first)
  - Read/update CURRENT_TASK.md each step; delete when done.
  - Build/lint/test (fish): cargo check --workspace; and cargo clippy --workspace --all-targets -- -D warnings; and cargo test --workspace
  - Run dev tools: asset-editor/dev.fish; debug via /tmp/ascii_rpg_debug; prefer debug scripts in repo root.
  - Logging: use info!/debug!/warn!/error! (no println!); avoid per-frame logs unless trace!.
  - ECS: prefer components over resource maps; use markers + Changed<T>; keep resources for config/assets only.
  - UI: adaptive content; builder pattern; size-aware components.
  - Done = compiles clean (clippy -D warnings), tests pass, verified in-app, no TODOs/hacks.
  - If blocked: state why and propose the next viable step.
  - Before large refactors/features: give 2–3 options and trade-offs; confirm direction before coding.

  ## 1) Build, lint, test (quality gates)
  - Fish shell one-liner:
   - cargo check --workspace; and cargo clippy --workspace --all-targets -- -D warnings; and cargo test --workspace
  - Fix all warnings. Use snake_case for functions/files, PascalCase for types.
  - Prefer inline rustdoc (///) and unit tests over standalone docs.

  ## 2) Run and debug (dev loop)
  - Start the app with debug flags and use the command pipe at /tmp/ascii_rpg_debug.
  - Quick start (fish):
   - cargo run --bin app -- --skip-main-menu > debug.log 2>&1 &
   - echo "debug viewport 0 0" > /tmp/ascii_rpg_debug
   - echo "ui 30 15" > /tmp/ascii_rpg_debug
  - Helper scripts at repo root:
   - ./debug.sh, ./debug_keyboard.sh, ./debug_click.sh, ./debug_world.sh
  - Logging rules:
   - Use info!/debug!/warn!/error! (never println!).
   - Don’t log per-frame unless trace!.
   - Use tail/grep to keep logs readable.

  ## 3) Testing priorities
  1) Unit tests first (small, deterministic outputs).
  2) Manual testing while iterating.
  3) End-to-end verification using the debug system.
  4) UI changes require visual confirmation from the user.

  ## 4) Architecture guardrails
  - ECS: Components (data), Systems (logic), Resources (global), Events (comm).
  - Principles:
   - Prefer components over resource maps. Avoid HashMap<Entity, _> in resources.
   - Optimize queries: marker components (e.g., IsOnCurrentMap), Changed<T>.
   - Separate concerns: tagging vs rendering vs gameplay.
   - Resources only for config/assets; not entity collections/relationships.
  - UI: Adaptive content, builder pattern, size-aware components.
  - Code layout: lib/ui (components/builders), engine/src/frontend (UI systems), engine/src/backend (game logic).

  ## 5) Completion criteria (definition of done)
  - All crates compile with no warnings (clippy -D warnings).
  - All tests pass. Add/adjust tests when behavior changes.
  - Feature is verified in the running app (use debug tools/logs).
  - No temporary workarounds or TODOs left in production paths.
  - Code follows project standards above.

  ## 6) Never-give-up policy
  - Don’t mark complete with failing builds/tests or known issues.
  - Don’t swap in placeholder hacks and call it “done”.
  - If truly blocked, state why and propose a viable next step.

  ## 7) Debug commands (reference)
  - Pipe to /tmp/ascii_rpg_debug:
   - debug [viewport X Y] [full]
   - move KEYCODE (Arrow keys, Numpad1–9, Space, Period)
   - click X Y [left|right|middle]
   - ui X Y
  - Coordinates: y=0 at bottom; higher y = higher on screen.
  - UI debug output lists text top-to-bottom by visual position.

  ## 8) Dev convenience (asset editor)
  - Combined dev script:
   - ./asset-editor/dev.fish (starts backend in watch mode + Vite dev)
  - Frontend only:
   - ./asset-editor/start-frontend.fish

  ## 9) Tech snapshot
  - Rust nightly (rust-toolchain.toml), Bevy 0.16.1.
  - Workspace layout: apps/ (game + editors), engine/ (frontend/backend), lib/ (shared), asset-editor/.

  Keep changes small, tested, and instrumented. When in doubt: write a unit test, run the app, and verify via the debug pipe/logs.

  ## 10) Design-first for large changes
  - When to do this: large refactors, cross-crate changes, complex features, public API changes.
  - Deliverable (in CURRENT_TASK.md):
   - Problem and goals (constraints, assumptions).
   - 2–3 candidate approaches with pros/cons, risks, and impact.
   - Chosen approach and why; edge cases; test plan; rollout/rollback.
  - Keep it short (5–10 bullets). Get confirmation before heavy edits.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by pompous_1234 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @04:58AM (#44960057)
>Never-give-up policy

    YOU CAN DO IT, LLM SLOP BOT!

    I BELIEVE IN YOU! NEVER GIVE UP!

    YOU CAN SHIT OUT THE RIGHT TOKENS!

    YOU CAN DO IT!
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by cyanydeez on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @06:07PM (#44967032)
I'd bet if you want the AI to use this effectively, it would do better to summarize the key programming related points at the end.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by numpy-thagoras on Thursday August 21, 2025 @01:17PM (#44975420)
Thank you!
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by asabla on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @09:23PM (#44957836)
Been using a similar setup, with so far pretty decent results. With the addition of having a short explanation for each file within index.md

I've been experimenting with having a rules.md file within each directory where I want a certain behavior. Example, let us say I have a directory with different kind of services like realtime-service.ts and queue-service.ts, I then have a rules.md file on the same level as they are.

This lets me scaffold things pretty fast when prompting by just referencing that file. The name is probably not the best tho.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by jitix on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @10:12PM (#44958087)
I like this idea. Do you have any middleware in your current setup that added the contents of this directory to the agent prompt?
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by CharlesW on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:22PM (#44958361)
I'd be interested in smarter ways of doing this, but currently I just use my CLAUDE.local.md to serve as the index.md in my example. It includes the 'specialist' .md files with their relative paths and descriptions, and tells Claude Code to use these when planning.

I also have explicit `xnew`, `xplan`, `xcode` and `xcheck` commands in CLAUDE.md that reinforce this. For example, here's my `xnew`:

  ## Remember Shortcuts
  Remember the following shortcuts, which the user may invoke at any time.
  
  ### XNEW
  When I type "xnew", this means:

  ```Understand all BEST PRACTICES listed in CLAUDE.md.
  Your code SHOULD ALWAYS follow these best practices.
  REVIEW relevant documentation in .agents/ before starting new work.
  Your code SHOULD use existing patterns and architectural decisions
  documented there rather than creating new approaches.```
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by lemontheme on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:39AM (#44959277)
There’s also [.claude/agents/](https://docs.anthropic.com/en/docs/claude-code/sub-agents), which doesn’t contain docs for agents but separate sub-agent definitions.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by steveklabnik on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:05AM (#44959421)
Claude supports slash commands, this might be better for you: https://docs.anthropic.com/en/docs/claude-code/slash-command...

As well as custom agents: https://docs.anthropic.com/en/docs/claude-code/sub-agents

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by tortilla on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:12PM (#44958321)
I'm building a little tool like this for myself. It's almost ready to be open-sourced. Just need to clean up some code and write better documentation.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by JSR_FDED on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:58AM (#44959047)
So just the remaining 80%
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by tortilla on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:28AM (#44962307)
I was at 80% a month ago. Now just 1% remains so, give or take 3 years more.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by riffic on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @10:03PM (#44958038)
.well-known/
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by echelon on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @10:31PM (#44958163)
This. Projects need to stop inventing their own root level files and directories.

Stop polluting the root dir.

I'm not a fan of the name "well-known", but at least it's a convention [1].

I think it'd be great if we took something like XDG [2] and made it common for repositories, build scripts, package managers, tooling configs, etc.

[1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8615

[2] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/XDG_Base_Directory

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by vinnymac on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:00PM (#44958275)
.config is a good name, and has a small following

https://dot-config.github.io

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by edoceo on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:06AM (#44958545)
And is also used in my $HOME directory - I like repeating good patterns, or at least well known patterns. (I still have ./etc and ./lib directories in my projects)
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by echelon on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:17PM (#44958341)
This has my vote. Thank you for sharing.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by binarysneaker on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:24AM (#44958614)
Reminds me of https://xkcd.com/927/
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by soraminazuki on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @08:11AM (#44961159)
Or just config with no dots.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by oblio on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:33AM (#44959245)
I've been in IT for a long time and configured Apache, Nginx, even IIS a bit back in the day, but I actually didn't know about well-known.

I guess I was one of the lucky 10000 :-)

https://xkcd.com/1053/

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by riffic on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @05:19PM (#44966598)
in that case it's .not-so-well-known/
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by eadmund on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @06:40AM (#44960635)
I believe with direnv or a similar tool (e.g. Emacs’s directory-local feature) one can append $REPO/.config to XDG_CONFIG_HOME, $REPO/.local/bin to PATH and so on so that when in the context of a particular directory everything Just Works.

I think all this agentic stuff could live quite happily in $REPO/.config/agents/.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by meander_water on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:04AM (#44958771)
There shouldn't be anything stopping you from doing that.

You can just use the AGENTS.md file as an index pointing to other doc files.

This example does that -

https://github.com/apache/airflow/blob/main/AGENTS.md

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by setopt on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:13AM (#44958817)
The point is that .agents is a hidden file while AGENTS.md is in your face like a README intended for humans.

Having an in-your-face file that links to a hidden file serves no purpose.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by meander_water on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:23AM (#44958870)
I don't see the point of having it hidden though. Having it "in your face" means you can actively tune it yourself, or using the LLM itself.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by pacifika on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:15AM (#44959143)
Webservers convention not to serve hidden files
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by selcuka on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @07:21PM (#44967525)
RFC 5785 (/.well-known/) breaks this convention, but sure, you are right in general.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by createaccount99 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:46AM (#44958981)
Anti-feature if you ask me. An agent should be able to pick the stuff it needs from the AGENTS.md, and not blindly use everything.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by barrkel on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:50AM (#44958994)
Everything the agent has to read to pick out stuff costs $.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by theshrike79 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @04:35AM (#44959932)
Context is not infinite. Saving context for what matters is key in working with LLMs.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by _ache_ on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @04:54AM (#44960026)
Context is not infinite yet.

New standard for something that maybe false very soon is just a bad idea.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by theshrike79 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @05:20AM (#44960188)
We all want to move to local models eventually for privacy and reliability.

They don't (and won't) have infinite context without trickery or massive €€€ use.

The current crop of online LLMs are just running on VC money slightly tapered with subscriptions - but still at a loss. The hype and money will run out, so use them as much as possible now. But also keep your workflows so that they will work locally when the time comes.

Don't be that 10x coder who becomes a 0.1x coder when Anthropic has issues on their side =)

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by cyanydeez on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @06:17PM (#44967121)
I don't see how anyone could make a successful product build on cloud LLMs, even if you get a perfect workflow, you'll either be gouged with price rises, or lose out to model changes and context/prompt divergence. All this "prompt" nonsense is simply trying to play to the LLM audience, and no amount of imprecise prompt will negate the fundamental instability.

So yeah, you have to use a localLLM if you think there's a viable product to be had. Anyone whose been programming knows that once you get to the mile mark of a complete & finished project, it can be mothballed for decades generating utility and requiring limited maintenance. All that goes out the window if you require a cloud provider to remain stable for a decade.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by cyanydeez on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @06:12PM (#44967080)
Until LLMs deal with context as a graph and not just a linear order of vectors, it won't matter the amount of context you shove down it's processors, it's always going to suffer from near-sighted processing of the last bits. To generate true intelligence it needs to be able to jump to specific locations without the interceding vectors affecting it's route.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by awbraunstein on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:47AM (#44959314)
You can have multiple AGENTS.md files in your codebase and tooling will look at both the one in the current directory as well as in the root of the codebase. This way you can sort of do what you're suggesting but simultaneously keep the information closer to the code that it is describing.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by bryanrasmussen on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:57AM (#44959366)
so you would have an Agents.md in your testing folder and it would describe how to run the tests or generate new tests for the project - am I understanding the usage correctly?
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by theshrike79 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @04:31AM (#44959921)
Pretty much yes

Most systems have a global config, project config and personal config.

But I do like the directory style to keep context low. Cursor did it best with actual glob filters in the front matter that tell the LLM "only read this if the file you're processing ends with *.php"

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by verdverm on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:26PM (#44963359)
Copilot does globs too, but if you dig into the actual prompt sent out...

They are not doing this mechanically (read file, compare to globs to add more context), they try to rely on the model to notice and do another read. It has been unreliable. I have had better results by adding instructions like...

"If the user asks about X, Read `./path/to/inst.md`"

Still lots of DX to do in this space

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by thayne on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:36AM (#44961840)
Kind of, but for any given directory you can't separate out instructions for building from instructions for naming conventions, for example.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by __alias on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @04:26PM (#44966048)
With AGENTS.md you have more flexibility to do something like

``` // AGENTS.md

If implementing a new service, first read @./SERVICE_SETUP.md

If writing tests, first read @./TESTING_SETUP.md

```

Or whatever else might make sense for your project.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by lelele on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @04:10AM (#44959802)
Could you please provide an example `index.md`? Thanks.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by nivertech on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @04:23AM (#44959874)
This looks like a general software design / coding style docs both for humans and robots alike. I put these .md files into the docs/ folder. And they're written by the Claude Code itself.

AGENTS.md (and friends like CLAUDE.md) should be for robots only, whether a large single file with h2 headers (##) sections, or a directory with separate sections, is a matter of taste. Some software arch/design doc formats support both versions, i.e. see Arc42.

Though, it's much easier and less error-prone to @-mention a separate .md file, rather than a section in a large markdown file.

Smaller files also might be better when you want to focus a coding agent's attention on a specifric thing.

They're also easier to review diffs / PRs.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by whywhywhywhy on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @05:07AM (#44960110)
>whether a large single file with h2 headers (##) sections, or a directory with separate sections, is a matter of taste

Not sure it is when you consider how agents deal with large files, hows it gonna follow coding conventions if it doesn’t even grep them or just read the first few lines

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by nivertech on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @05:25AM (#44960219)
Claude Code globs and greps files, while Sourcegraph Amp uses RAG.

But yes, naive coding agents will fill the context with the entire large file.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by PriNova on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @05:32AM (#44960262)
For the sake of clarity, Sourcegraph: Cody did RAG-style context fetching. However, Amp does not use RAG for context fetching.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by irthomasthomas on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @05:15AM (#44960162)
This is what I do. Everywhere my agent works it uses a .agent dir to store its logs and intermediary files. This way the main directories aren't polluted with cruft all the time.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by xmorse on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @05:29AM (#44960240)
You can put your docs in folders and reference them in AGENTS.md

Or use urls in your main AGENTS like I do for https://gitchamber.com

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by zimbatm on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:03AM (#44961573)
This should have been CONTRIBUTING.md all along.

The content of the AGENTS.md is the same as what humans are looking for when contributing to a project.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by oehpr on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:25AM (#44961758)
The most effective argument I have for getting other developers to comment their code is "The agent will read it and it will give better suggestions".

Truly perverse, but it works.

I agree with you... but the reality is that there's a wide contingent of people that are not capable of understanding "people don't know the same things as me". So they need some other reason.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by organsnyder on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:09AM (#44962143)
It's made my project documentation so much better. If I write out really good acceptance criteria, 9 times out of 10 I can point Claude at the ticket and get a workable (if unpolished) solution with little to no supervision.
[dead]
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by mxmilkiib on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:58PM (#44963664)
you've not had your "oh shit" moment yet?
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by esafak on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:33AM (#44961808)
They understand it just fine; they are acting selfishly, because it does not benefit them. Helping the coding agent does.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by zahlman on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:44AM (#44961901)
They really might not understand it fully. That's very much in line with my understanding of how autism works.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by dingnuts on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:40PM (#44963463)
several ironies here:

1) an AI agent is less likely to notice than even a junior is when the docs are out of date from the code

2) AI boosters are always talking about using language models to understand code, but apparently they need the code explained inline? are we AGI yet?

3) I frequently hear how great AI is at writing comments! But it needs comments to better understand the code? So I guess to enable agentic coding you also have to review all the agents' comments in addition to the code in order to prevent drift

HOW IS ANY OF THIS SAVING ME TIME

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by cyanydeez on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @05:57PM (#44966946)
Think of it like it's saving future you time if you just let the AI centipede feed off of you. Surely it'll eventually regurgitate perfect code.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by oehpr on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:42PM (#44968256)
Well... Yah. For the record I'm saying this to trick humans into making better comments for humans. It is very difficult to convince people to do this otherwise, in my experience.

buuut...

I will also mention that these agent files are typically generated by agents. And they're pretty good at it. I've previously used agents to dissect unfamiliar code bases in unfamiliar languages and it has worked spectacularly well. Far far FAR better than I could have done on my own.

I have also been shocked at how dumb they can be. They are uselessly stupid at their worst, but brilliant at their best.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by sbochins on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @11:34AM (#44962884)
I don’t think they serve the same purpose. Most of the instructions I have for an agent won’t apply to a human. It’s mostly around the the requirements to bootstrap the project vs what I’d ask for a human to accept their pull request.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by layer8 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:56AM (#44962539)
Arguably, contributors are human agents. ;)
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by hombre_fatal on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @11:13AM (#44962679)
Nah, My standard for what I write for humans is 100x than the slop I spew for robots.

Also, you don’t even address their point.

Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by alostpuppy on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:39AM (#44962392)
Dude, this is such a good point.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by j2kun on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:05PM (#44963732)
Yeah I can't find any example in an AGENTS.md that isn't useful information for a human. "Cluttering" a README.md is a silly justification.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by heyzk on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:09PM (#44963780)
I think semantically this is true, but the way humans and agents handle context, at the moment, is different enough to warrant a separate structure.
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by Western0 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:51AM (#44962494)
bot.md not index.md
Re:The AGENTS.md Standard: A simple, open format for guiding... by verdverm on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:18PM (#44963268)
This is one of the reasons I'm sticking with .github/... copilot instructions for now. We'll see if this proposal evolves over time as more voices enter the conversation