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Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by bloomingkales on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:18AM (#42306266)
Orwell being so right about governments using the constant threat of a virtual enemy has got to be one of the all time top on the money predictions ever.

Up there with gravity and shit. I wish we could do something with this information, but alas, knowledge isnt power.

Cersei Lannister: Power is power.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by Cumpiler69 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:25AM (#42306335)
>Orwell being so right about governments using the constant threat of a virtual enemy has got to be one of the all time top on the money predictions ever.

It's not a prediction when it's history. That has been going on at least as long as the Roman Empire, yet people are still surprised it's happening today. Modern regimes didn't invent these schemes, they're reusing tried and tested methods because they're known to work because human psychology and behavioral instinct is vulnerable to the same exploits which probably will never get patched anytime soon.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by rrr_oh_man on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:32AM (#42306425)
And it’s always the others who are doing it. Our government would never. I mean, they did, but that was at least… dozens of years ago. And got forcibly declassified. They would never today. I guess. :-)
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by dh2022 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:42AM (#42306571)
I am sorry I lack context. Which government took over dozens of years ago? And what got forcibly declassified? Thanks.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by layer8 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:08AM (#42306874)
This is about “using the constant threat of a virtual enemy”, not necessarily about a coup d’état (although that wasn’t so far away either four years ago).
[dead]
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by coldtea on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:08AM (#42306886)
Speakers over 40 all around the world use that. And when emojis are not supported (like in an plain text file meant to be read on people's terminals, or iirc here on HN too), it makes sense for people under 40 too.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by setopt on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:24AM (#42307109)
They might have meant writing :-) instead of :), while I think you’re talking about
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by jamal-kumar on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:37AM (#42308093)
Yeah specifically with that hyphen nose. I have like three friends who all do that and they all meet that description it's hilarious
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by rrr_oh_man on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @05:23PM (#42312257)
Don‘t discriminate against the hyphen nose.

(Said in a sharp German accent)

:-)

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by jamal-kumar on Thursday December 05, 2024 @03:19AM (#42326098)
Would guess also you remember your ICQ number
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by llm_trw on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:40AM (#42306541)
It's been at least one dozen years ago since the last time it happened.

No one from that period is still in the exact same position as when it happened - some of them were promoted.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by nozzlegear on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:19AM (#42307032)
> some of them were promoted.

And the rest? Who exactly are you talking about here?

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by rob74 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:35AM (#42306460)
Indeed - When he wrote 1984 in 1948, Orwell just took his contemporary totalitarian regimes (mostly Nazi Germany and the USSR) and extrapolated them to world scale...
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by BurningFrog on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:42AM (#42307336)
Orwell learned his cynicism the hard way as a volunteer soldier in the Spanish civil war 1936-37.

He arrived as an idealistic anti fascist fighter. After experiencing Stalinism in person, he became the man we know.

https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/commentaries/how-spai...

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by pessimizer on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @02:32PM (#42310236)
> He arrived as an idealistic anti fascist fighter.

He arrived as a Stalinist into a government and population of anarchists.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by ImPostingOnHN on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:51AM (#42306670)
1984 seems to be set in the UK ('Airstrip One', of 'Oceana').

None of the storyline actually takes place in 'Eurasia' or 'Eastasia' or any other part of the world. They don't need to even actually exist for the storyline. Indeed, this itself is a message about controlling a populace via control of information. The rest of the world could have been razed by war, they could be total utopias. The propaganda keeps people from thinking about alternatives.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by xnorswap on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:02AM (#42306819)
Yes, but Orwell wasn't really writing _about_ the UK, you need to look at the context and background of the work, which is the rise of Stalinism and the fear of that brand of totalitarianism taking over.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by zorked on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:20AM (#42307057)
There is a very politically-motivated school of interpretation of 1984 that wants to excessively tie it to "Stalinism" to prevent using the book to critique other political doctrines - completely unrelated to Stalinism or communism - that exhibit the same tendencies.

Interpret more broadly and it becomes a much better, more important book.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by xnorswap on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:24AM (#42307114)
It wasn't just Stalinism, it was wider totalitarianism too, but that wasn't the point I was making, it wasn't a critique directed against the state of the UK at the time, but what it could become.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by AceyMan on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:23AM (#42307085)
H.L. Mencken wrote it down well before Orwell.

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by ncr100 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:28AM (#42307970)
Amazing that while these insightful critiques about government and democracy appear to stand, Democracy also still appears to be nearly the best system that we've enacted to govern large bodies of people.

We suffer with inefficiency, majority tyranny, populism, short-term-itis, inequalities, and voter apathy which promotes less qualified people.

At least we usually have peaceful conflict resolution rather than firing squads. <3

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by ebiester on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:24AM (#42306332)
That wasn’t a prediction, just an observation.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by aurareturn on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:32AM (#42306434)

  Orwell being so right about governments using the constant threat of a virtual enemy has got to be one of the all time top on the money predictions ever.
Who is that virtual enemy for the US?
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by samsonradu on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:34AM (#42306453)
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by bilbo0s on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:53AM (#42306695)
Yep.

Pretty much everyone.

Only difference in which enemy is pointed to, is who you ask.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by paulryanrogers on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:12AM (#42306937)
Some are more objectively real threats than others. Like that guy who claims to only want to be dictator for a day, who sent an armed mob to storm the Capital building, pardoned cronies and war criminals, and brags about walking in on women naked.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by coldtea on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:20AM (#42307055)
For "an armed mob to storming", it looked a hell of a lot like a bunch of stupid ass demonstrators getting inside a government building with no plans, no leadership, and no fucking clue what to do, and then getting summarily expelled. That is to a coup what The Muppet Show is to Saw.

As for the "pardoned cronies", isn't today a bad day to single one side out based on that?

(Not to mention the singling out for "war criminals", when the other side is warmongering hawks, bombing, openly pushing for war, sabotaging peace deals, and openly assisting a slow burning genocide).

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by paulryanrogers on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @12:03PM (#42308410)
174 people were injured in the 'riot'. People died. Trump had called for resistence, asked for metal detectors to be removed, physically attempted to rejoin the crowd by grabbing the wheel of the vehicle taking him home, stood silent for hours during the attack, and said "so what?" to the news his vice president was in grave danger. It was a failed coup and betrays the constitution he swore to protect and defend. Now he describes it as a "day of love" and the 'rioters' as hostages.

Biden pardoning his son is a black mark, especially for the tax evasion. (I think pardons should be abolished.) Yet an order of magnitude less worrisome than the scum Trump has pardoned and promises to pardon.

As to warmongers... which party voted almost unanimously to invade Iraq without hard evidence of WMDs? Who backed out of the Iranian nuclear deal? Who praises bullies and dictators? Who moved the embassy to Jerusalem? Who is so deluted they claim merely winning an election will bring peace to the Middle East and Europe? Who threatened to pull support from allies -- in the midst of a war -- because they want dirt on political rivals or to catch up on underpaid bills. (Trump knows a thing or two about not paying when he owes someone.)

Why do you carry water for this man?

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by 4bpp on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:41AM (#42307315)
Russia, China, Iran or any combination of the three. Any correct response is bound to draw indignation from those who consider the enemy real rather than virtual, but this is to be expected - given that every popular story of manipulative governments (including of course 1984) is told from the perspective of a dissident, we lack the narrative framework to conceptualise what such a system looks like through the eyes of someone broadly on board with it.

The warring US tribes certainly made an effort to associate their internal enemy with these (Democrats insinuating Republican subversion by Russians, Republicans insinuating Democrat sympathies with China and Iran). Arguably, this did not really catch and the majority of people are more preoccupied with their internal outgroup, which suggests that the external-enemy strategy is currently falling flat in the US. You could make a better case for it being in place in various European countries.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by aurareturn on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:55AM (#42306731)
Eight replies to my post and no one has mentioned China yet.

Has China been accepted as a "real" enemy? To me, China is the main virtual enemy that politicians trout out to create fear and distraction.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by NickC25 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:17AM (#42307791)
Accepted? No idea.

That said, China has stated that their long-term plan is to overtake our military, economic, and technological dominance.

That's, at the very least, a clear signal that they want to beat us.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by tw1984 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @02:46PM (#42310428)
> That said, China has stated that their long-term plan is to overtake our military, economic, and technological dominance.

Any source on that? From what I have read, according to CCP's official mouthpieces[1], "China's development strategy focuses on continuous self-transcendence, and does not aim to surpass the US or any other country".

[1] https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202210/1276952.shtml

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by brvsft on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:59AM (#42307583)
I agree, although it is a "real" enemy in the sense that their ascension is a threat to US hegemony or the idea of the USA as the preeminent world superpower.

I don't see it as rational, but there is definitely an argument that the USA ought to remain positioned as number one, having the ability to dictate global politics. I don't think we deserve it, but it's certainly 'better' for us in the sense that it gives us an advantage and thus might improve our quality of life (cheaper imports, blah blah blah). I view that argument as entitled and promoting the status quo.

The Chinese people have worked hard. Actually, people all over the world work hard, although the Chinese have gone past industrialization and have a massive and capable population. The idea that they wouldn't have more power and would need to somehow remain under the US's thumb, where we get to say how they treat Taiwan or what currency they can trade in with other countries, just seems absurd. People come up with bullshit reasons for why the US ought to retain some control over their politics or how the rest of the world engages with the Chinese (and we don't just get to do that anyway), e.g., the Chinese are mean to the Uyghurs, as if anyone ever gave a fuck about the Uyghurs or whoever twenty years ago.

In all that sense, China is certainly a real threat. But the level of entitlement behind that argument is so blatant that I can't take it seriously.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by aurareturn on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:06AM (#42307663)
Well said. I don't mind that the US is doing what they're doing. It probably even make sense for the US to work against China. What I don't like is the massive "China bad" propaganda campaign when in reality, it's just jostling for power and economics.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by netsharc on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:50AM (#42308245)
> Well said. I don't mind that the US is doing what they're doing.

But with Trumpism again being the winner, how much of the world still view the US positively? Obama's Iran Deal was a USA-EU-Iran agreement, when Trump pulled it, it didn't just piss off "the enemy" (Iran) but also the allies (EU), and it destroyed US's credibility, even with a Democratic president, anyone going to do a deal with the USA will ask for guarantees in case the deal gets wrecked after the next presidential election...

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by jumping_frog on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @01:57PM (#42309843)
US Deep State planted the Uyghurs story to get Volkswagen exited from Western China province. Deep State is everywhere.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by sneak on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:02AM (#42306822)
It’s a hedge for ifwhen things get difficult over Taiwan.

The USA without cheap Chinese manufacturing is basically dead in the water. It is approximately unfathomable how much of the comfortable and cheap way of life enjoyed in the US is directly dependent on trade with China and mindbendingly cheap Chinese manufacturing labor.

The ~most valuable company in the country is 100% beholden to Chinese manufacturing to make the most popular product that makes all of their money. They are doing their best to replicate manufacturing capacity in India but you can’t make 50,000 iPhones an hour without years of build-up and thousands upon thousands of trained staff.

If China invades Taiwan, the USG is basically game theoretically forced to make Americans endure some significant hardships until a new metastability is achieved.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by cyp0633 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:14AM (#42306966)
Not gonna happen in recent years, I suppose. PRC also needs US-designed and/or Taiwan-manufactured advanced chips. The possibility of war will ever decrease as long as more and more people wake up to the consequences.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by aurareturn on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:58AM (#42307567)
I don't see why the need for advanced chips would prevent China from using its military on Taiwan.

If anything, the US-led blockade of advanced chips to China will make it more likely for China to use force. If China can't get their hands on the most advanced TSMC chips, then why would they let the US do so and get too far ahead in AI? Both can't have them then.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by tw1984 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:30AM (#42308004)
> If anything, the US-led blockade of advanced chips to China will make it more likely for China to use force.

you watched too much MSM

1. the whole taiwan thing is just an excuse to force the united state to waste more resources on a topic selected and controlled by China. nothing is better at wasting US efforts by forcing it to keep investing borrowed $ in its military presence over 10,000km away from its mainland, nothing is affordable at such distance.

2. Taiwan doesn't make those ASML machines, they operate those imported machines very efficiently, that is all. China is playing a long game, trying to master and eventually control the full semiconductor supply chain at any cost by developing its own industrial bases. In such a big picture, Taiwan with what it has today is tiny, it doesn't worth such an invasion. With 1.4 billion population and its ongoing competitions with the US, China doesn't have the luxury to select which sectors or fields it must control - it has to control everything to just have its people employed on half decent pays.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by majesticglue on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @01:45PM (#42309665)
I'm glad people are getting it. China is not as war hungry as america is as it's being made out to be on MSM.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by NickC25 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:21AM (#42307834)
If China so much as touches Taiwan, all the TSMC fabs will explode. They are all already rigged to do so. The Taiwanese will burn their island to the ground before they let the CCP get their hands on Taiwan.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by aurareturn on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:45AM (#42308198)
No, they aren't rigged to explode. And no, the Taiwanese won't burn their island to the ground.

So much propaganda.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by majesticglue on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @01:47PM (#42309702)
lmao. these americans are hopeless arent they? "Rigged to explode" LOL. Not to mention China is catching up fast on chips.

American propaganda...one day Americans are going to wake up and realize, China has taken over in all areas of tech and Americans are going to be in such denial that they'll want war... sigh. China is already leading in many areas, not all of them yet, but they soon are

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by rightbyte on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @01:22PM (#42309366)
Really? Seems like a way to make it really low effort to decrease competition by industrial harakiri.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by majesticglue on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @01:44PM (#42309652)
Someone's not privy to how fast China is progressing nowadays. Americans are so ignorant on Chinese technological prowess right now. Chinese EVs are dominating every market in the world aside from US which has basically banned it essentially, otherwise we'd have very affordable cars in America. America banned DJI drones which owns about 70-80% of the world market on drones. China recently unleashed an open source AI model (and this is with limited funding and compute because they put a ban on exports of US and Taiwan chips) that rivals openai o1 with a fraction of funding. Not to mention how China has always had the lead on manufacturing automation and robots.

Man Americans are oblivious to how fast China is progressing.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by teractiveodular on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @02:56PM (#42310573)
China's progress is real, but there are still many things like cutting-edge semiconductors and airplane engines they cannot compete in and thus rely on the West for.

The Chinese leadership is well aware of this and is massively funding efforts to build these indigenously, but they're chasing moving targets and still decades away from catching up.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by sneak on Wednesday December 04, 2024 @12:57PM (#42320057)
Jet engines from decades ago are still more than sufficient. The gap is overstated.

China will win through brute scale and determination, I believe.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by cyp0633 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @08:26PM (#42313628)
Can Americans live without cheap goods from China? Yes, but those goods may not be easily accessible in a short period. The same goes for Chinese people. Although there are indeed alternatives, Qualcomm and NVIDIA, for example, still dominate the market, simply because they can offer the best product. And those alternatives, from my view here in China, still have a way to go.

War is not a joke, it does no good to both sides.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by bilbo0s on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:04AM (#42306837)
China is the "enemy" in the sense that we need someone competent to keep the military industrial complex fed with money.

Good "return on propaganda investment" for those guys.

Smedley Butler told us how this was all gonna work a long time ago.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by aurareturn on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:46AM (#42307383)
It isn't just the military industrial complex.

It extends as far as Zuckerberg hiring PR firms to write hit pieces on Tiktok and lobbying government officials in order to stave off competition.

"China bad" is profitable for everyone it seems, except the commoners.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by coldtea on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:13AM (#42306954)
Depends on the year, it changes every decade or so, sometimes sooner.

And often it's the very people and organizations supported and lauded as allies and/or freedom fighters and lauded a few years earlier (like Shaddam or the Taliban).

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by GartzenDeHaes on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:28AM (#42307156)
Here one example. Al-Qaeda was the name of Osama bin Laden's legitimate political party in Saudi Arabia, which he kept separate from his jihadist activities in Afghanistan. There is not now, nor has there ever been, a shadowy international terrorist group called Al-Qaeda. It's a complete fiction that was used as a simple explanation for the dizzying array of groups hated by western oligarchs.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by tclancy on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:55AM (#42306733)
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by toolz on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:11AM (#42306930)
I would say it's most people. Just look at how many genuine comments (of course I've seen non-genuine comments as well) getting downvoted here. There are far too many people who deem it unacceptable to state certain opinions and I wouldn't be surprised if people on both sides of the political spectrum read this and confidently presume it's the opinions on the other side that are at fault.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by zknow on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:34AM (#42307226)
probably Russia or China (though they might be more than virtual) More likely Iran tbh
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by rascul on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:52AM (#42306678)
Terrorists
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by yyuugg on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:16AM (#42306999)
But also, "Terrorists". The label the state will apply to anything they dislike. See organizations like Food Not Bombs being called terrorists in Florida for handing out free food.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by Ar-Curunir on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:02AM (#42306821)
Drugs, terrorism, immigrants, black folks, etc have all been the boogie man in the recent past
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by linuxlizard on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:37AM (#42306493)
California.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by sneak on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:00AM (#42306803)
The rest of the replies here seem to be personal attitudes and opinions.

Objectively, the state-promoted bogeymen in the USA are consistently Iran, China, DPRK, and increasingly Russia.

I just spent a month in China and the disparity between what we are told in western media and what is actually going on is substantial, but not in the ways I expected.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by ronsor on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:50AM (#42308247)
Based on how I've seen people describe China, they have a lot of "vertical slicing" going on: the parts that are good look really good and impressive, but the parts that are bad are extremely bad. They will do whatever is possible to hide the latter.

Remember that China is not a "free country" (even as much as Western nations have started to make a mockery of that word) like those of the US or Western Europe. Your experience is highly curated by default. If you're just a tourist or a businessman visiting Shenzhen or Shanghai, it's unlikely you'll have any problems - those are major international business cities!

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by tw1984 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @03:22PM (#42310867)
> Remember that China is not a "free country"

indeed, none of them had the freedom to get a full unconditional pardon by their father with terminal stage dementia.

I mean freedom of what? unlimited number of genders? fat dude wearing a dress competing sports against young girls? or maybe you are talking about the freedom to avoid jail time for convicted felony by being elected the leader of your free world?

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by lordgroff on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:46AM (#42307386)
Please--do tell more re: China. I hear a lot of parroting of negative talking point about China here in Canada, I see a lot of crazy footage from China that looks like the future, but I'd love to know more about your actual experience.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by aurareturn on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:54AM (#42307503)
I'll tell you my experience:

I was just in Shenzhen last month. It feels like a city that is 10 years ahead of any place in the US. The city felt extremely futuristic. Most cars on the road are EVs. Payments are all digital. Ordering at restaurants is on your phone. The entire city is extremely clean, civilized, efficient, safe which you can't say about any major US city. Hop on a high speed train at any time and go to anywhere in China within a few hours.

China basically feels like a bigger Singapore except people in China are generally friendlier and more down to earth.

When you're actually in China, the constant negative stories about China in your head will go away. What you'll see is just like any other place: people working hard, minding their own business, and generally friendly people.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by billy99k on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @02:48PM (#42310472)
"I was just in Shenzhen last month. It feels like a city that is 10 years ahead of any place in the US. The city felt extremely futuristic. Most cars on the road are EVs. Payments are all digital. Ordering at restaurants is on your phone. The entire city is extremely clean, civilized, efficient, safe which you can't say about any major US city. Hop on a high speed train at any time and go to anywhere in China within a few hours."

It's easy to make changes quickly when the people making the change don't really have a choice. I've heard the murder rate in North Korea is almost 0 and the crime is very low compared to most other countries. The devil is in the details.

"When you're actually in China, the constant negative stories about China in your head will go away. What you'll see is just like any other place: people working hard, minding their own business, and generally friendly people."

There was never any doubt that the people are nice and friendly in China. The issue is the authoritarian government. As an example, do some research on how the Chinese government treats people from the LGBT community and get back to me.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by aurareturn on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:57PM (#42314369)
Chinese people are conservative by nature. What’s the murder rate in the Chinese community in the US? In Canada? Etc.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by sneak on Wednesday December 04, 2024 @12:54PM (#42320023)
I can co-sign all of that, but the cleanliness and order comes at a terrible dystopian price. There is no counterculture, little underground, and everyone with resources who can leave, does.

China is a terrible place, the ultimate star wars crab bucket dystopian future. It’s shiny and pretty and has cool LEDs and malls.

Any place can be decades ahead if you simply outlaw the old ways of life. Authoritarianism is a terrible cancer.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by aurareturn on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:48AM (#42307408)

  I just spent a month in China and the disparity between what we are told in western media and what is actually going on is substantial, but not in the ways I expected.
I always tell people on Hacker News to just book a flight to Shenzhen. Just go. They'll be completely safe there - probably even safer than where they come from. They can go see China for themselves, instead of through western media.

The vast majority of people on Hacker News have drank so much "China bad" propaganda that they're even afraid of visiting.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by ninalanyon on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:39AM (#42306520)
Socialists, social democrats?
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by willvarfar on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:35AM (#42306456)
was russia, then terrorists; nowadays it is immigrants and 'the woke left'?
[dead]
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by yyuugg on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:14AM (#42306979)
How many explicitly anti white men bills were sent to state legislatures this year? Bills that specifically and narrowly target white men.

669 bills were filed this year that specifically target trans people.

233 explicitly anti immigrant bills this year.

Hundreds of explicitly anti Muslim bills since 2010.

Dozens of local laws criminalizing being poor. Including one Supreme Court ruling that allowed cities to make sleeping while homeless illegal.

I think the data clearly suggests that the state's enemy isn't white men.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by sisixbcuzibs on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:28AM (#42307146)
The white population as a whole and as a % in the US is falling. Can you say the same about any other group?

Even then, I’m not trying to paint those other groups as the enemy. Our parasitic ruling class pits us against one another to prevent any focus on them.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by yyuugg on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:42AM (#42307334)
Age within different demographic groups isn't uniformly distributed, right? We'd be at the point when boomers are approaching end of life, but there wasn't an equivalent nonwhite boom, iirc.

I also suspect that the idea of whiteness has long held itself to be culturally exclusive ("you are not white if one of your parents is Black") while other racial groups are the inverse. There's a... lot of baggage and history there obviously. But I could see the manner in which the census asks about race being skewed by our cultural understanding of our race.

I also believe that wealthier, more educated folks tend to have fewer children. Which could suggest that, in the US white folks have more access to wealth and education.

Which is a long winded way of saying racial demographics is complicated and I can imagine many reasons why groups might rise or decline that are way less sinister than they are the enemy of the state.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by fazeirony on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:36AM (#42307252)
so you're proving my point? if you're not a white dude, you're the enemy. i agree completely with your sentiment and that hate that is being legislated in the US right now.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by yyuugg on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:44AM (#42307360)
Something about the way you rolled your eyes around the use of cisgender made the comment read as sarcastic to me. Text is hard.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by divility on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @12:54PM (#42309001)
> 669 bills were filed this year that specifically target trans people

Almost of these are to protect women's spaces (e.g. competitive spaces in sports) or to prevent children from being medically harmed.

> 233 explicitly anti immigrant bills this year.

These are targeting people who have entered the country illegally. Unless you want no checks at all on immigration, this is a good thing.

> Hundreds of explicitly anti Muslim bills since 2010.

Anti-Islam, actually. Or more specifically against Sharia law being implemented. Not really a problem.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by yyuugg on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @03:29PM (#42310947)
Double check my thesis. Hint: It was not a judgement on the problematic nature of these laws. We can discuss that elsewhere if you want, but that's fairly orthogonal to the discussion.

Stronger hint: my thesis was focused on which groups the state legislates against, and how it wasn't "white men".

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by divility on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @04:13PM (#42311517)
There are white men in all those groups.

Most of the men trying to use women's spaces are white, there are white male immigrants here illegally, and there are white male adherents of Islam.

You're not comparing like for like.

[dead]
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by brvsft on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:07AM (#42307666)
Because you are lowering the discourse here.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by Ekaros on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:40AM (#42306529)
Far-right, Trump, Incels, White-Males, Patriarchy... Pick your poison...
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by uoaei on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:52AM (#42306681)
The view from inside a bubble
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by bilbo0s on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:59AM (#42306774)
All definitions of "enemy", are views "from inside a bubble".

I suppose if you have people shooting and bombing you, "enemy" is a fair label to put on them. Those are the only types of "enemies" that are the same whether the view is from inside or outside the bubble.

But most of these people talking about their "enemies", are not in those situations at all.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by kernal on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:11AM (#42307724)
There it is. I knew Trump and white males would eventually be blamed from the radical far left.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by MisterTea on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @11:56AM (#42308319)
I think that was sarcasm.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by potato3732842 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:27AM (#42306370)
>Orwell being so right about governments using the constant threat of a virtual enemy has got to be one of the all time top on the money predictions ever.

The way modern states leverage external threats to justify abusing people or waging their own external wars is fairly parallel to how the less top heavy kingdoms of the middle ages and early modern period used religion as a justification for comparable atrocities.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by ethbr1 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:49AM (#42306639)
Anything that can be declared evil through repetition on state influenced media is always popular with autocratic leaders.

One of the reasons "they're oppressing and committing atrocities against some of our people who live there!" has been a perpetual casus belli against neighboring states.

If you trumpet it long enough, eventually people start believing and get mad.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by mistrial9 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:37AM (#42307272)
this topic is large and easily misunderstood. No absolute statement covers all. therefore all absolute statements are untrue. People originated as tribal groups, most of them fought violently over territory at times. Meanwhile "religion" is always present, but in varied forms. The stratification and codification of "religion" and The State occurred in different ways in different cultures, but it is certainly a compromise between active violence and active spiritual traditions, in a society. You can say "people who claim to be ReligionX used violence" and it means more than one thing.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by kozikow on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @09:39AM (#42306519)
> Cersei Lannister: Power is power.

Knowledge is a necessary, but not sufficient component of power

Or in other words observability is a necessary, but not sufficient component of optimization.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by cess11 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:17AM (#42307015)
Power determines what knowledge is possible.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by udev4096 on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:10AM (#42306919)
Littlefinger: Knowledge is power.
Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by himinlomax on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @10:20AM (#42307056)
> virtual enemy

There's nothing virtual about North Korea ...

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by dang on Tuesday December 03, 2024 @02:46PM (#42310438)
It's best to avoid generic tangents like this, as the site guidelines ask (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). They tend to lead to generic flamewars, which are boring.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42306176.

Re:South Korean president declares emergency martial law by smegger001 on Wednesday December 04, 2024 @12:20AM (#42314660)
Power is power, knowledge is a lever