Most tasks in a car do not run on high speed cutting edge chips.
A few random examples:
- adjusting your side mirrors - the control of the AC cooling unit and speed of the fans - electronically adjustable seats - parking sensors (the beeping kind) - wiper controls - engine controls (ice or BV) - inverter (BV)
All of those require electronics most require a microcontroller but not the latest 3nm Snapdragon.
It is more than fast enough to process input from sensors and it has hardware support for video.
Aside from mandatory ADAS, most cars can definitely get away with "90s tech" but probably not "80s tech"
The ECU obviously needs more compute power. That said 6502 was an over exaggeration.
They will still have the same problem, but they don't think that far ahead.
With chip makers, it is different, because chips can be used in lots of different products and there is lots of demand from all corners. So car makers tried their usual strong-arm tactics and failed miserably. Chips being a sellers market, after all. After which car makers went whining to their politician puppets, getting them to OK billions in subsidies for "supply chain security".
It must have been a shocking experience for them that chip manufacturers have alternative buyers.
Two things can be true at the same time!
I do enjoy translating things into Sindarian or other conglangs from literature though.
I had a theory that giving it the custom instructions in latin might give better results, but i haven't had time to figure out how to benchmark something that's so non-deterministic and black-boxy
What do you mean?
Obviously, the code I write in the end is English. But explaining a domain in a native language - especially when that domain embeds cultural things - helps a lot. For example, there's a massive difference between "add_high_VAT()" in a Dutch Context from a US context. Even add_VAT(lookup_VAT("FR", "low")) demands quite some domain-knowledge about EU tax system. Which I can express in English, but is much easier in my native language.
there are also other potential benefits, e.g. "the" in english gives little information about what noun may follow. "die/das/der" in general cut the probability space to a third.
for us non-native english speakers, this is an understated blessing.
While I agree that cultural loss is tragic, consider that it is inevitable. Homo Sapiens have existed for ~200,000 years. We only have SOME traces of SOME cultures for say 10k of those years. So from that lens, the vast majority of human culture has already been lost.
1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_Technical_English
2: Contrast particularly major rivals French and Mandarin
I think you're talking about the Québécois, because the french around here are swimming in a sea of _épouvantable_ mix of french and english words. But as afterthought you're still quite right, this mix usage is sliding downhill from ill inspired managers to general low class now.
Meanwhile new nuclear reactors cost 4 times as much as renewables and take decades to build.
So stop spreading FUD.
Germany is deindustrializing as we speak (chemicals, auto and auto related, etc). Once you deindustrialize past a certain threshold, it’s very difficult to come back.
https://www.dw.com/en/vw-electric-cars-tesla-germany/a-66468...
https://insideevs.com/news/681020/volkswagen-outsells-tesla-...
Hyundai is currently at sixth place behind VW, Tesla, MB, BMW and Audi:
https://insideevs.com/news/677504/germany-allelectric-car-sa...
In 2022 Tesla was at the top, VW second and Hyundai third, so Hyunday actually seems to be losing ground against other German car brands, at least in the EV market segment:
https://www.best-selling-cars.com/electric/2022-full-year-ge...
I think the announcement of the 'deindustrialization' of Germany might be a bit premature.
Regarding deindustrialization:
- https://www.economist.com/business/2022/09/11/germany-faces-...
- https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2023/01/06/transit...
- https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-industry-europe-ener...
- https://www.politico.eu/article/rust-belt-on-the-rhine-the-d...
- https://unherd.com/thepost/recession-in-germany-is-a-sign-of...
from the press release itself:
> ESMC marks a significant step towards construction of a 300mm fab to support the future capacity needs of the fast-growing automotive and industrial sectors, with the final investment decision pending confirmation of the level of public funding for this project.
it's a 300mm fab.
> Realpolitk wise they absolutely cannot risk regulatory capture to a few select firms on the west coast of the USA.
not only is this 40 years too late, but the press release itself contradicts this comment.
300mm wafer diameter, yes. That's state of the art, with some vendors looking at 450mm with little to show for now.
300mm is larger than a vacuum tube!
These are not leading node semiconductors that will be used for training AI. These are commodity chips that will be used in the automotive industry.
This wouldn't be a big deal. GPT is not some one-of-a-kind leaps-and-bounds ahead of everyone else ground-breaking technology.
I have a hard time understanding the people who visit this website and havent used the technology.
GPT 3 and 4 were already exactly that, leaps and bounds ahead of everybody else.
GPT 4 shocked the connected planet and massively disrupted plans across the tech industry globally. Version 4 has been every bit as disruptive as the iPhone (which completely altered the trajectory of the phone & mobile markets).
It has been talked about from coast to coast across the globe non-stop since its release. Covered endlessly by every major media outlet in the West. GPT this, AI that, non-stop since V4 sparked enormous consumer attention and debate.
It has dozens of major companies and open source groups desperately attempting to copy it or catch up to it.
It has governments terrified of AI and attempting to quickly place regulations to control it.
It has programmers - one of the elite, highest paying professions in the world - running scared that half the software development jobs in the industry are going away in the next decade (they are).
1.3 million software developers in the US earning a median of $115,000 before benefits ($200+ billion in total annual compensation for that employee pool). Half of those jobs, at a minimum, will be eliminated by this type of AI, and it was GPT 4 that made it clear it was not just a far-off premise.
Its the first highly potent consumer AI product. Over one hundred million people quickly signed up to use it. There hasn't been anything remotely close to it so far (Siri and Alexa have been barely useful jokes by comparison).
The same people that like to pretend Tesla didn't spark the electric car revolution, and like to pretend Apple didn't spark the smartphone revolution, like to pretend OpenAI didn't just set off a revolution in AI.
> GPT 3 and 4 were already exactly that, leaps and bounds ahead of everybody else.
I don't think you're disagreeing with gp
You're in a bubble: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=ChatGPT&hl...
Trends on ChatGPT interest are clearly going down.
It's almost as if it isn't the Magic Beans the charlatans claimed.
This has absolutely nothing to do with AI or LLMs. Generally these are automation chips for machinery or vehicles.
"Microsoft made him walk that one back real quick"
This sounds like a weird fan fiction. OpenAI openly negotiates with EU governments. No one walked back anything.
AMD is already there and Intel is building in Lower Saxony. Must be something about the region, perhaps the chemistry since the Erzgebirge has a history in mining. Meisner Porcelain for example beat Venice and replaced good old China (pun intended).
> No one walked back anything.
I'm not sure about that (haven't heard this story).
My impression is that EU sticks to discretion very much, and they aren't free from corruption. The US on the other hand is not known to play nice with matters of law in international affairs (Edit: shouldn't have said "international law").
Taiwan is a partner was the point, I believe. Of course they aren't going to give away the crown jewels either.
Following Occam's razor, perhaps it's that it's just cheaper?
"The monthly pay ranking of German states is headed by Hamburg with 3,619 euros, followed by Baden-Württemberg with 3,546 euros and Hesse with 3,494 euros. The lowest salaries are received by employees in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania with an average of 2,391 euros. Slightly more is earned in Thuringia with 2,459 euros and Saxony with 2,479 euros."[0]
[0] https://www.deutschland.de/en/topic/business/pay-in-germany-...
Can you expand on this claim?
(I'm deliberately resisting quoting sources listing German regions top exports!)
Those centers of technology with their attached universities were mainly located in Dresden (Robotron) and Jena (Carl Zeiss) and some smaller locations sprinkled over the southern half of East Germany.
This 'micro-electronics tradition' carried over into the 90's after the reunification and continues until the present time.
I’m always amused that some people never grow out of the “our team is infallible” mentality.
For chips to be blocked going to Germany doesn't thus require a nuclear exchange. You rather should think of smth like military aggression from China towards Taiwan.
Reverse the roles. American ballon. Mexico getting armed against the US by a foreign superpower and sworn enemy. Would the US tolerate those acts?
Yes? What about their nuclear policy from the past half-century convinces you otherwise?
1. Nobody would launch nukes domestically, so moot point.
2. Using nukes internationally would be a faux-pas beyond fixing. Every modern, nuclear-equipped nation understands this.
3. The United States doesn't need nuclear weaponry to dispel invaders, or even to retaliate against foreign attacks. Their nuclear weapons exist to deter other nuclear superpowers from using their weapons for petty gain.
Definitely seems nuclear.
Ok. American balloon over China will be shot down. You know the rules about air space, water etc?
Sincere advice: don't assume you have insights and knowledge that is deeper than those from the experts. This is a pitfall for us HN'ers.
I don't understand your point. How does it relate to my analogy of a neighbor of America getting armed and trained by a sworn and bellicose enemy of America who states openly that it's goal is American regime change and geopolitical breakup. Under this scenario, I suspect the US would roll into Mexico and end that sooner than later under the Monroe Doctrine due to the real (or perceived) existential threat. At least, I would hope so - Mexico being in a military alliance with China would be not good.
Also, Mexico entering a military alliance with China is extremely far fetched, how did you even arrive at that idea?
I will assume you were unknowingly repeating Kremlin propaganda. Please don't.
What do you think's going to happen? That we're going to say "Guys, that's not cool. Ok I guess we'll just withdraw from Iraq, after all our reasons for invading were complete rubbish anyhow. Darn, you win this one - Russia!"? Come on. It would have just led to an endless escalation, well not 'endless' because there is one final escalation from which there is no coming back. That people lack the empathy to see how dangerous the path we're treading is only because the media has spent years creating this absurd dichotomy in the world where America - good, the ever-shifting enemy of the day - bad. So naturally doing anything to your enemy is okay, because they're bad, and we're good.
Here's some counter-whataboutism: what about the Korean and Vietnam wars (the Soviet Union even sent their own pilots with the jets), and countless other smaller conflicts in Africa? The Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc were pumping weapons into those conflicts or have been invading themselves to support "their side". Same with Russia in Syria btw.
At least the free west is upfront and open about the weapon deliveries down to the last helmet:
https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in...
And they like to respond with “whataboutism!” - which is ironically, a Soviet propaganda term.
Americans are particularly myopic and view the world though a post-history lens.
Not sure what the (!) for the cluster bombs is about, both Ukraine and Russia never signed the cluster bomb ban, and both Ukraine and Russia have been using cluster bombs in both this conflict but also since 2014.
This isn't anything new, the only change is that they are now being provided by America, and the American ones appear to fail less.
> Not only were these weapons effective enough to manage to kill tens of thousands of Americans, but some were even being used to carry out irregular attacks in major American cities.
I'm not sure that the provided weapons are being used to carry out any 'irregular' attacks on Russian cities?.
But even if they were, did the Russians really think they could enter this war and bomb cities into dust and never get bombed themselves?.
> That people lack the empathy to see how dangerous the path we're treading is only because the media has spent years creating this absurd dichotomy in the world where the American cause of the week is just and right, whereas the enemy - pure evil. And so in this context people seem to rarely ask themselves whether what we're doing is right or wrong, because how can doing harm to pure evil ever be wrong?
I think its perfectly morally acceptable to arm a country trying to defend itself against an imperialist invader.
I don't think the path that is being tread is in any way shape or form dangerous, why would Russia losing this war be any different to the other wars that both Russia and the Soviet Union lost?.
Your bias is clear here. I was trying to balance it.
I responded to someone who seems to believe this is the great AI equalizer. This fab has no relevance to AI. And FWIW, Europe already has a number of much more advanced fabs! Intel is currently upgrading Ireland to "Intel 4" spec (which in TSMC land would be 7nm), and is building other fabs, for instance.
Ultimately this story is "German automakers want more control over supply chain of vanilla automation chips", and not much more.
As an aside, it's always interesting that we talk about Taiwan's revered chip prowess (South Korea is up there as well)...when the Dutch company ASML is really the technology key. TSMC executes extraordinarily well, but they wouldn't be doing it without ASML.
Globalization has failed on many fronts and resulted in race to the bottom outcomes, but here it works well due to specialization.
Having understood that, one can also see a core TSMC strength is that Taiwanese workers are disciplined and work long hours for moderate pay, a culture that European and American labor will never accept. So all these new factories in US/EU should be treated as high cost alternatives, justifiable only for non cost-sensitive customers like defence/aerospace/high end cars.
Source?
These nodes are generations old and basically only in use in German cars with their abysmal 'software'. The only touching point these processors will ever have with AI is as an API endpoint to Google Voice or Siri.
Moreover, Mistral was widely seen as a joke and testimony to the catastrophic state European tech is in.
Europe is done. I have no idea why they rushed to regulate anything. In the end the U.S. startups will tell us what to do. Europe is a joke.
Not that I see what interest I'd have in any kind of AI in my car.
Yes, these chips are for automotive and industrial use, what's the problem? Those are both important use cases.
You may think Europe is done, but who makes the EUV lithography machines used for TSMCs' cutting edge nodes? Who makes the leading ERP system used by a lot of companies around the world? Where was the Chrome V8 JavaScript engine developed?
The point is, Europe has plenty of innovation. But unlike the US, people don't go around boasting every chance they get. People just do stuff and are happy with that.
Realpolitk wise they absolutely cannot risk regulatory capture to a few select firms on the west coast of the USA
We'll also probably get a lot better support for languges which aren't english, an entire other scary effect of LLMs is the potential to accelerate language death
Very nice to see.