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Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by legitster on Friday March 31, 2023 @04:25PM (#35393109)
"1 in 25 Americans being born will not make it to their 40th birthday."

Wow. Actually impressed with the analysis backing this up. If you read the entire thread, he actually covers nearly every correlating factor I could think of.

And it's pretty clearly drugs, guns, suicide, and cars. (The cardio health one doesn't seem as strong).

The one that is crazy to me is the uptick in driving fatalities. Cars are an order of magnitude safer than they used to be and we were trending towards 0. An entire generation has to be that much more reckless than before to make that kind of a dent.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by jjevanoorschot on Friday March 31, 2023 @05:02PM (#35393612)
It’s not necessarily recklessness.

Cars in the US have gotten much larger and heavier in recent years.

A Ford F150 might be safe to drive, but it’s not safer for pedestrians and other road users than the smaller cars we used to have.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Nextgrid on Friday March 31, 2023 @05:45PM (#35394082)
I bet phone usage is also a factor.

Keep in mind that while we had cell phones for a while, it’s only within the past 10 years that the whole “distraction economy” became a thing, so while people may have used phones to communicate back in the day, nowadays they might be using the phones even more just to attend to those distractions.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by asdff on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:35PM (#35394687)
With T9 you could send a text with your one hand in your pocket. Try that with an iPhone...
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Broken_Hippo on Saturday April 01, 2023 @04:55AM (#35398568)
Text-to-speech is available on the iPhone, is it not?

And it probably has the same accuracy as the spellcheck on the T9, unless you meant to talk about the ducking ponyman in your text.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by NineStarPoint on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:52PM (#35395385)
The phone usage thing also affects European countries though. Large cars becoming more common is an issue more unique to the US.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by PebblesRox on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:59PM (#35404533)
That's a good point, although the phone usage could have a multiplier effect and cause proportionally more trouble in the US due to the bigger cars and more-car-oriented environment.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by paganel on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:12PM (#35394398)
Plus, modern US trucks are as big (if not as heavy) as WW2 tanks. Photos taken from the infamous DailyMail, but they look correct to me, that is [1] and [2]

[1] https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/07/25/21/45875073-9823577-...

[2] https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/07/25/21/45876985-9823577-...

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by tshaddox on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:18PM (#35395083)
> if not as heavy

A difference in mass of around 15x, I believe.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by popcalc on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:41AM (#35399449)
In some states you can register a tank to drive on the street!
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by PeterisP on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:16PM (#35395575)
A Ford F150 is most dangerous to small pedestrians (i.e. your kids or the kids of those you visit) in the driveway which you can't see over your hood due to its size.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Swenrekcah on Friday March 31, 2023 @05:46PM (#35394099)
Cars are getting so big that people can’t drive them. An indescribably sad statistic: In the US, a parent drives over and kills their kid in the driveway every other day [1].

All the guns also cause -a bunch of— some small kids to kill their siblings every year.

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna52109

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by sammalloy on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:03PM (#35394286)
> Cars are getting so big that people can’t drive them.

While controversial because car companies in the US intentionally chose to market large SUVs to the public, there is some evidence that smaller vehicles are safer and that auto manufacturers have doubled down on unsafe vehicles. Why this is the case, isn’t exactly known, but one of the theories is that bad drivers will get behind bigger cars and take more risks.

I’ve driven both large SUVs and smaller subcompacts, and I can talk at length on the pros and cons. However, as a driver, I can tell you that smaller cars are often bullied by larger cars, and this gives weight to the idea that people driving larger vehicles take larger risks, resulting in greater danger to the driver and to other cars and pedestrians.

There’s also the mistaken perception by older generations that smaller cars are inherently more dangerous; this was once true, and everyone can point to disastrously unsafe compact cars in the 1970s and 1980s. But due to modern technology and safety enhancements, this probably hasn’t been true for the last two decades or more. This older, erroneous belief continues to underlie why people choose larger vehicles today.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by LanceH on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:21PM (#35394518)
Smaller cars are more dangerous in a multi-car accident.

Most accidents only involve a single car.

There is less control in larger vehicles.

Everyone thinks they are a better driver than they are and the only way they'll end up in an accident is if someone else hits them.

Add all this up and many want to drive larger cars.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Schroedingersat on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:30PM (#35395679)
> Smaller cars are more dangerous in a multi-car accident.

Smaller cars bear more of the risk in a multi-car accident from the more dangerous larger cars. The smaller cars themselves are safer.

It's like saying t-shirts are less safe than guns because they won't stop bullets.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by 8ytecoder on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:22PM (#35396405)
It's a negative spiral. More people get bigger cars now because well there are more bigger cars on the road now. That and the convenience of an SUV is unbeatable for people with families - like baby seats or ease of getting in and out and so on. When I bought my car almost a decade ago, it felt reasonably sized. Now it looks puny on the road.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Schroedingersat on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:36PM (#35396479)
True. But language is important. We don't have to help them victim blame.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by LanceH on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:48PM (#35396911)
No victim blaming. Smaller cars are more dangerous given an accident is already occurring between multiple cars.

Choosing a car to be in an accident, a bigger car is a solid choice. Of course, that skips over being in an accident at all. It also skips over any concern for others -- but so many people view that hypothetical accident as clearly the other person's fault, so may as well go with the big car.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Schroedingersat on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:28AM (#35397419)
> Smaller cars are more dangerous given an accident is already occurring between multiple cars.

Again, you're victim blaming here. The small car is not causing the danger. T-shirts are not more dangerous than guns just because someone firing a gun randomly into a crowd is less likely to get hurt than someone in the crowd wearing a t-shirt.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by LanceH on Saturday April 01, 2023 @02:47AM (#35397825)
Still not victim blaming, go back and read the whole thing again.

Which car is safer if you're choosing a car to be in? big or small? The bigger is safer and the smaller is more dangerous (to be in), in a multi-car accident.

My whole post was on the rationalization of the choice of size of car. Language matters, as you say. It is about people not choosing the smaller car and not being the victim due to driving a smaller car.

Yes, the escalation of size causes problems in aggregate, but not the point of what I wrote.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Schroedingersat on Saturday April 01, 2023 @03:38AM (#35398113)
The small car is safer to be in. The person with the small car is causing less danger.

You are participating in the victim blaming and the arms race by conflating the externalisation of risk with safety. And there is no need to aggregate to see the effect. It is present in every individual case.

The person in the big car is not being safer, they are being more dangerous and more selfish. Just because they perceive that their selfishness is exceeding the added danger (something not borne out by the stats) does not justify it. Acknowledging the framing of the auto industry is making the problem worse.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by scott_w on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:37AM (#35397466)
All being equal, no it’s not. However, SUVs get their “safety” by killing the drivers of smaller vehicles. Two SUVs colliding is more dangerous for both than, say, two Ford Fiestas colliding.

And that’s to say nothing of what happens when the person being hit is a pedestrian or cyclist.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by scott_w on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:35AM (#35397449)
Perceived convenience for people with families. Actual convenience is a joke because they’re horrifically impractical compared to an estate (station wagon in the USA).
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by smegger001 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:47AM (#35397507)
Minivans are in many ways more practical than SUV for families just as many seats easier access back row of seat tons of leg room better millage. and while suvs perform better in head on collisions van are safer in most other as the suvs are more top heavy and likely to tip. Vans just have a stigma as the soccer mom vehicle despite all those soccer moms having moved to suvs to get away from it.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by smegger001 on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:35PM (#35395728)
>Everyone thinks they are a better driver than they are and the only way they'll end up in an accident is if someone else hits them.

I hear this a lot and wonder how true it is because I personally think i am a horrible driver and can't wait until actually safe fully self driving cars take away my need to drive. on the other had a drive a small car and want a smaller one despite sharing the roads with behemoth raised 4x4 pickups that seem to be inexplicably popular.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by amrocha on Saturday April 01, 2023 @03:34AM (#35398095)
Self driving cars are never coming in a form that would allow you to absolve yourself of responsibility for driving
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by ben_w on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:08AM (#35398616)
"Never" is a long time.

Given the explanations I've been given for why demonstration videos of general purpose vision-based robots are still often sped up x4 or more (despite Tesla and Spot), I have to assume it's at least a few years away yet, but that's not never.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by kergonath on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:42AM (#35398816)
The human will always be responsible. There is no way the manufacturers are going to accept liability in case their self driving car has an accident.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by ailun on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:57AM (#35398893)
I remember hearing something different. Seems like Mercedes is moving in that direction.

https://insideevs.com/news/575160/mercedes-accepts-legal-res...

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by kergonath on Saturday April 01, 2023 @06:27AM (#35399051)
Interesting. I’ll be happy to eat my hat in a couple of years, but I don’t think this will be generalised.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by ben_w on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:43AM (#35399845)
Even if so, they may be forced to do so for the right to market the vehicle as self driving.

I would favour this.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by amrocha on Saturday April 01, 2023 @09:13PM (#35406041)
Even if legally you're not culpable, you're still responsible for choosing to use a death machine in an environment where it can cause harm to others.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by ben_w on Sunday April 02, 2023 @11:41AM (#35411709)
Are you arguing against human drivers there, or against cars in general?
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by amrocha on Sunday April 02, 2023 @03:35PM (#35414246)
Against personal cars in cities
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by bwilli123 on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:08PM (#35394344)
These Stupid Trucks are Literally Killing Us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo&t=1858s

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Gordonjcp on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:33PM (#35394661)
> I’ve driven both large SUVs and smaller subcompacts, and I can talk at length on the pros and cons.

One thing I find genuinely surprising is that the Renault Zoes we have as pool cars at work have got far bigger blind spots and far worse visibility than my 25-year-old Range Rover.

And, in turn, although that Range Rover is described as an SUV (it's not especially sporty, it's a top-heavy three tonne army truck with nicer seats), it's the same length and width as most "normal" family saloons. It's got a much smaller footprint on the road than some large 5-seaters like a Tesla Model S.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by avar on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:37PM (#35396140)
It's because of modern safety regulations. A, B and C pillars are all thicker, so are doors. Windows don't go as low to improve crash outcomes.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by lostlogin on Saturday April 01, 2023 @02:20AM (#35397667)
Yes!

My ‘60s Triumph 2000 had amazing visibility. If I’d rolled I’d have died for sure, but I’d have seen the thing that killed me.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by logi2mus on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:08PM (#35394345)
Risk compensation
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by thevagrant on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:17PM (#35395080)
I've noticed that certain types of large vehicles attract drivers (or create false confidence) in bad driving and aggressive driving habits.

It is appears that the driver of the large SUV or pickup believes they have right of way over smaller cars, pedestrians and cyclists.

A "get out of my way" attitude.

I love small cars, not to mention cycling and walking.

It concerns me that the shift of cars parked at the parking lot has dramatically changed over the past 20 years.

Walking from the car to the shop is like carpark gauntlet, you need to be increasingly ready to dodge giant vehicles reversing with disregard to their surroundings.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by ip26 on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:57PM (#35396621)
Surveys have found that people driving large SUVs and trucks like them for reasons including, it makes them feel powerful, and it makes them feel important. These were high on the list, even.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by drdec on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:50PM (#35395828)
> car companies in the US intentionally chose to market large SUVs to the public,

This didn't happen in a vacuum. Poorly written fuel efficiency regulations incentivized automakers to do this.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by HEmanZ on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:07PM (#35395931)
My unscientific pet theory is that poorly built/zoned neighborhoods and cities, designed as if every human needs to drive a giant car at all times, are to blame more
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by amrocha on Saturday April 01, 2023 @03:33AM (#35398088)
Neighborhoods are built slower than cars are, and the increase in car size has outpaced construction. Sure we should fix our neighborhoods, but they're not the main reason behind increasing car sizes.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by amrocha on Saturday April 01, 2023 @03:31AM (#35398074)
They weren't "poorly written" as much as "lawmakers accepted bribes to add exemptions for semis"
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by nukeman on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:04PM (#35395918)
Bigger vehicles by volume are safer, as there is more space for crumple zones. Bigger vehicles by mass are more dangerous, as there is more momentum and kinetic energy involved in a collision.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by tmnvix on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:23PM (#35396030)
I think bigger vehicles often have the disadvantage of having a more rigid chassis.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by helaoban on Saturday April 01, 2023 @02:13AM (#35397623)
Bigger vehicles by volume are taller vehicles, they impact pedestrians closer to the vital organs in the upper torso and head. Pedestrians are also more likely to be swallowed / run over by cars with higher ride heights.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by sammalloy on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:33PM (#35404308)
> Pedestrians are also more likely to be swallowed / run over by cars with higher ride heights.

It would be very interesting to see more studies on this. Where I am, the car of choice is a lifted truck that I don’t think has been accounted for with regards to pedestrian safety.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by nradov on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:16PM (#35395972)
Americans spend a lot of time in their vehicles. Big vehicles are simply more comfortable and practical on a daily basis, at least outside of a few dense cities. If you're going to be stuck in traffic then might as well have some space to stretch out instead of being squeezed into a compact car. Safety is less of a concern for most buyers.

You can argue that this is irrational based on handling or fuel economy or whatever. But for better or worse buyers prefer size and comfort.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by lostlogin on Saturday April 01, 2023 @02:25AM (#35397701)
I’m around 195cm. There is plenty of space. I can fit very comfortably into most vehicles (passenger planes excluded). Outside of leg and elbow room, what can you even do with that extra space when stuck in a traffic jam?
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Symbiote on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:19AM (#35398658)
You may leave less room for rear seat, adult passengers if you drive a compact car.

It's still manageable, and fine for occasional trips, but I wouldn't choose that car to drive 4 adults daily.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by jessaustin on Saturday April 01, 2023 @09:49AM (#35400285)
...I wouldn't choose that car to drive 4 adults daily.

Is this a typical thing that cars do? I'm not sure if I've seen 4 adults in a car in the last month.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by tbrownaw on Saturday April 01, 2023 @03:23PM (#35403243)
Before the plague forced pervasive WFH, this was every Friday when a bunch of us would pick somewhere for lunch and all pile into the fewest cars needed.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by jessaustin on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:56PM (#35433986)
A long time ago I worked in an office like that. I usually biked to commute, so when we had one more person going than cars going to lunch, I just biked to the restaurant as well. Otherwise, I rode in someone's car. Still, none of the drivers did this "daily". Neither this nor sibling comment describe a "daily" situation. If you need a big sedan once a month and big SUV twice a year, just rent at those times and drive something more practical the rest of the year.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Symbiote on Saturday April 01, 2023 @06:41PM (#35404894)
* * *
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Helmut10001 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:17AM (#35399298)
In Germany, the car tax includes the type of car and is adapted based on the accident rate for this type. Basically, you know ahead of time that you will pay more if you buy a car type that is often driven by reckless drivers.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by FooBarBizBazz on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:37AM (#35422456)
The existence of SUVs is a form of stochastic terrorism that affects everyone who doesn't own one.

I see two solutions. One is to use democracy and the State's supposed monopoly on violence to ban these weapons. The other is tit-for-tat: SUV drivers need to be killed at random until death rates reach statistical equality. Only then will the expected value to a safety-concious person of an SUV not exceed that of a sedan.

Right now, their thought process goes, "I will probably get into an accident, and when I do I want to dominate the other driver". That thought process needs to include counterbalancing considerations like, "yeah, but driving this will attract legal small-arms fire from Corolla drivers", or, "a knife-wielding spec-ops team of motorcyclists will be able to look up my license plate in the database and infiltrate my home while I sleep".

I'm joking but only kinda. This is literally life-and-death stuff. If people drive SUVs because they fear for their lives, then maybe they need to not drive SUVs because they fear for their lives.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Jiro on Friday March 31, 2023 @05:59PM (#35394232)
>All the guns also cause a bunch of small kids to kill their siblings every year.

No they don't, unless you're going to quibble about what a bunch is. Numbers that seem to show lots of deaths to "kids" pretty much always include age ranges old enough to include gang members.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by glhaynes on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:24PM (#35394551)
Numbers that seem to show lots of deaths to "kids" pretty much always include age ranges old enough to include gang members.

So what if they were? It's pretty damn sad for a person young enough to be considered a child to die from gun violence regardless of who they were! A sad societal failure on top of our failure to set them up with life circumstances that made them unlikely to fall in with a gang.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by 1123581321 on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:29PM (#35394606)
It matters because it’s ineffective to pursue the wrong root causes.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Teever on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:11PM (#35395520)
Agreed. We should implement policies that prevent guns from getting into the hands of children, regardless of whether they're gang members or not.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by wkat4242 on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:33PM (#35395710)
That'll be very very difficult. Even very restrictive weapon ownership countries like Netherlands and Sweden have a big violent gang problem. And a policy as strict as they have is just totally unthinkable in the political reality of the US.

So a policy stricter than the US can have isn't enough to solve this problem. That's why it's better to aim at reducing accidental underage gun deaths which is much more achievable.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Teever on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:49PM (#35395818)
It's so bizarre that America is the only country in the world that seems to face these kinds of problems.

As a Canadian who grew up in a household with a dozen firearms, I never once touched those firearms, and hardly ever saw them until I was taken to the range by my father and taught how to use them.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by erik_seaberg on Saturday April 01, 2023 @12:59AM (#35397286)
It wasn’t a problem for rural American kids to have access to guns in the 1950s. My dad routinely hunted small game before class.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by anon291 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:11AM (#35397346)
America is the only first world country to border South and Central America, which is the region of the world with a homicide rate orders of magnitude above any other. It is no surprise violence spills over due to proximity.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by adgjlsfhk1 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:43AM (#35397496)
I'm very interested in this border between South America and the US. most maps seem to be hiding it.

also, fun fact, when your government spends a hundred years assisting coups of democratic or socialist governments, those counties are going to have a lot of political instability.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by jjav on Saturday April 01, 2023 @02:30AM (#35397728)
> America is the only first world country to border South and Central America

The United States has one border with a central America country (Mexico). Please show on the map where it has a border with any south American country?

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by amrocha on Saturday April 01, 2023 @03:43AM (#35398138)
Are you seriously blaming the US's horrible society on all the latam countries they deliberately destabilized?
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by orwin on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:38AM (#35399803)
France have a border with South American countries, and is facing illegal incursion from Brazilian gangs in it's territory (and an army guy died for it last year if I remember correctly), still the gun violence in Guyana is pretty low (lower than Marseille). Not an excuse.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by rgmerk on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:34PM (#35396464)
Yes, there are gangs in those countries, but the thing is that gang members they don’t kill each other at nearly the same rate as they do in the US.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by rgmerk on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:53PM (#35396595)
Sweden’s murder rate is less than a fifth of the murder rate in the United States.

It seems like their policies do go a big way to solve the problem, as infeasible as they appear to be for the USA.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by wkat4242 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @12:48AM (#35397240)
You can't compare murder rates in the US with Sweden.

They have a real welfare system, diminishing social inequalities and with that the feeding ground for crime.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by adgjlsfhk1 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:40AM (#35397482)
we can do both
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by rgmerk on Saturday April 01, 2023 @03:19AM (#35398009)
Sounds like a great idea…

…but it’s also worth pointing out that murder rates are also a lot lower than the US in other developed countries that don’t have Scandinavian levels of welfare transfers.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by wkat4242 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @09:15AM (#35400064)
The other developed countries still have much lower income differences between rich and poor than the US though. I think this is a bigger contributor to US crime levels than its gun policy.

Also, I don't understand the focus on murder rates. Compare all violent crime at least.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by mtts on Saturday April 01, 2023 @04:25AM (#35398395)
Don’t know about Sweden but the Netherlands does not have a “big violent gang problem”.

It has a problem with a few small and very violent gangs that occasionally gun down people in broad daylight, in the middle of the street, completely disregarding the safety of the people around them, which is bad but nothing like the gang problems in the US or Latin America.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by 1123581321 on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:16PM (#35395568)
Sarcasm noted. Hopefully you understand a multi-pronged approach is needed.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Teever on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:25PM (#35395640)
I'm not being sarcastic.

A multi-pronged approach that involves reducing the amount of guns in American is a surefire way to reduce access to guns by children, both in gangs and out.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by 1123581321 on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:38PM (#35395753)
Sarcasm might’ve been the wrong word. I meant to say I see you reusing whatever words I write to disagree with them.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Swenrekcah on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:04PM (#35394298)
I’ll admit I didn’t look up those numbers but I read about these things way too regularly.

But that’s of course not the main thing about guns and kids in the US like everyone knows.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by ipaddr on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:22PM (#35394536)
You'll read about those but not suicides and that is a greater problem.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by bitwize on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:20PM (#35394507)
Statistically speaking, suicide is the #1 cause of gun death in the US, gang activity is #2.

School shootings are far down the list. They get a lot of attention but don't account for a large proportion of deaths.

Of course, that any of these deaths occur is tragic, which is why the most sensible solution is repeal of the Second Amendment and implementation of a nationwide, federal license requirement to purchase or own a firearm. 120-day grace period. License each gun, turn them in, or go to jail.

Let the gangs resort to cutting each other like Japanese gangs.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by japhyr on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:58PM (#35394910)
That doesn't require a repeal of the second amendment. That just requires a willingness to interpret the full text of the amendment, instead of focusing only on the last four words.

School shootings are far down the list as far as fatalities go. But that's a poor way to measure the impact of school shootings. The trauma inflicted by each of these events goes way beyond the number of children killed. Everyone who has heard actual gunshots in their own school building feels life-changing trauma.

When a kid in the US says "I'm scared to go to school," you can't tell them they have nothing to be scared of. You can tell them "It's not likely to happen at your school today." That's small comfort.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by bitwize on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:31PM (#35395683)
The full text of the amendment is pretty clear that "a well-regulated militia" depends upon "the right to keep and bear arms", it does not limit that right. You can put together a Supreme Court to overturn Heller and other decisions on this issue, but constitutional scholars are likely to consider it rickety jurisprudence.

Repealing the 2nd would be a full-throated declaration that wielding weaponry is a privilege, not a right.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by r2_pilot on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:42PM (#35396177)
Remember, the Constitution was crafted by men of their time, and they explicitly stated it was not a suicide pact and that future generations were fully allowed to amend it should they find the desire. We can probably find a compromise that greatly reduces gun violence, if only compromise could be made.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by WalterBright on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:45PM (#35396198)
> We should probably repeal and replace the First Amendment while we're at it, and tie up some loose ends like Citizens United and the inability of U.S. governments to criminally punish hate speech.

I am not a gun nut, and have little interest in owning/shooting guns. I've done it, and found it boring. But my defense of the 2nd Amendment is based on the domino theory that if the 2nd can be ignored, there goes the First and every other "inconvenient" right enshrined in the Constitution. The First is the most important of all those Rights.

Thanks for illustrating I am right that the First would be put on the chopping block right after the Second.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by zirgs on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:22AM (#35399327)
There's still freedom of speech in countries with stricter gun laws. Also in my country prostitution and abortions are legal. So stricter gun laws don't always lead to other restrictions.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by WalterBright on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:26PM (#35402109)
The difference is the 2nd Amendment is not a law, it's in the Constitution. The Constitution ain't worth nothing if it is not respected.

I don't care about gun rights. I do care about the Constitution, and I very much care about the First Amendment.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by zirgs on Saturday April 01, 2023 @02:36PM (#35402797)
The Constitution is not set in stone - it can be amended. If the Constitution is amended in a legal way then how is it disrespectful?
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by sokoloff on Saturday April 01, 2023 @02:40PM (#35402824)
So long as it’s respected until/unless amended, I’m entirely in agreement.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by zirgs on Sunday April 02, 2023 @03:37AM (#35408145)
Yup - passing laws that straight up ignore the Constitution would set a really bad precedent.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by bitwize on Sunday April 02, 2023 @04:32AM (#35408406)
That's what I'm getting at. If we take the Constitution seriously, but want to enact real gun law reform, amending the Constitution is the solution.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by maxerickson on Saturday April 01, 2023 @09:18AM (#35400091)
Repealing am amendment isn't ignoring it. It's the opposite.

You could clarify that you mean the rights stated in the amendments of course.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by WalterBright on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:31PM (#35402150)
The while we're at it, let's get rid of the rest of the Bill of Rights, is terrifying.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by bitwize on Sunday April 02, 2023 @04:34AM (#35408417)
There are countries freer than the USA where the government reserves the right to severely restrict speech and even criminalize some forms of political speech, if it serves the public interest. If you express Nazi views in Germany, for instance, you go to jail. Guess what -- Germany hasn't had to deal with a Nazi problem significant enough to turn into a real political movement in nearly 80 years. The USA, by contrast, had a near miss with Hitler 2 actually occupying the White House.

Sorry, but the first amendment, as currently formulated, really needs to go. It should be replaced with a formulation of freedom expression that better balances individual freedom with the public interest according to modern political standards.

In fact, given the problems with corruption in the American system and first-past-the-post voting leading to money-driven, rather than truly democratic, politics, the entire constitution probably needs to be rethought. No less of an American political thinker than Justice Ginsburg has opined that the US constitution is no longer, in the current era, a model for good governance. This should happen in a civilized fashion with a convention and ratification much like the current constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation, but it nonetheless needs to happen.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by WalterBright on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:07PM (#35416292)
> There are countries freer than the USA where the government reserves the right to severely restrict speech and even criminalize some forms of political speech

No, there aren't.

> the first amendment, as currently formulated, really needs to go

That's the first thing the Nazis did, as well as Mussolini, and every other repressive government. Without free speech, the rest of your rights go down the drain.

If Ginsburg advocated getting rid of free speech, I'd like to see a cite from you about that.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by bitwize on Monday April 03, 2023 @12:37PM (#35426883)
When Ginsburg was interviewed on Al-Hayat TV in 2012 about where the new Egyptian government should look for inspiration, she cited the South African constitution, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and the European Council on Human Rights positively and said "I would not look to the U.S. Constitution" as a model for establishing a new state:

https://africasacountry.com/2012/02/ruthbaderginsburg/

On the matter of free speech, note that the South African and Canadian constitutions, and the ECHR, all protect freedom of expression exclude hate speech as protected speech. It is VERY much in line with modern statecraft to do so, and the doctrinaire approach of the First Amendment (only established in 1969, by the way, before which the USA implemented speech restrictions not dissimilar from those seen elsewhere) is the outlier here. Also note that getting rid of the First Amendment is not getting rid of freedom of expression.

Granted, her position was not even as radical as mine, which is that we must rethink the constitution from the ground up and implement a new form of government more resistant to corruption, again drawing from examples of more modern statecraft -- a multiparty parliamentary system, for instance. All she was saying was that new governments should look elsewhere for a template.

Ginsburg's views that the U.S. constitution is the supreme law of the land, and must be hewed closely to and not played fast and loose with for as long as it is active, were congruent with mine.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by zol on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:34AM (#35397447)
Since the second amendment doesn’t specify what arms I have the right to bear does that mean I should be allowed to wander down to my local gun store to pick up a surface to air missile so that I can shoot down an airliner? Of course not, that would be insane. So why not put similar limits on automatic weapons that can mow down an auditorium full of kids?
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by bitwize on Saturday April 01, 2023 @03:47AM (#35398160)
Automatic weapons that can mow down an auditorium are already illegal without a special license.

What's needed is a ban on semiauto rifles and pistols in civilian hands without a license. While we're doing that, may as well restrict all firearms.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by wolverine876 on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:32PM (#35396104)
> gang activity is #2

What is that based on? The only people I hear even talk much about 'gangs' is conservative propgandists trying to demonize black and brown people and cities. I'm not saying no gangs exist, but they aren't really an issue (unless you define 'gang' as any association of >1 person

> the most sensible solution is repeal of the Second Amendment and implementation of a nationwide, federal license requirement to purchase or own a firearm. 120-day grace period. License each gun, turn them in, or go to jail.

It's a politicized judiciary. For centuries, nobody interpreted the 2nd Amendment the way the conservative judges do now, but when the Federalist Society intentionally politicized the judiciary, this is what happened.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by gedy on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:38PM (#35396485)
> I'm not saying no gangs exist, but they aren't really an issue

Sounds like you've never been poor in urban areas?

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by wolverine876 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:36PM (#35404333)
I've spent a lot of time in those areas. Have you?

For one thing, talking about them like they are all the same betrays that you haven't. They are as different as any other neighborhoods.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by kube-system on Saturday April 01, 2023 @12:06AM (#35397007)
> I'm not saying no gangs exist, but they aren't really an issue (unless you define 'gang' as any association of >1 person

Not too far off. The federal definition is 3+. Gangs aren’t necessarily big.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by anon291 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:10AM (#35397341)
This is delusional. I am a brown person, I grew up in these areas. Gangs exist. They are a scourge on the areas they blight. Please do not vote
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by wolverine876 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:34PM (#35404323)
Maybe where you lived, but not in so many other places.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by int_19h on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:59AM (#35397556)
NY tried that forced registration trick. Look up the compliance rates for it sometime.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by imwithstoopid on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:36PM (#35394694)
> Cars are getting so big that people can’t drive them

and likewise, people are getting so big they can't drive their cars...

in Texas, police officers in some municipalities have requested that their vehicles be modified to elevate the steering wheel...they literally cannot jam their stomachs between the seat and the wheel, and if they push the seat back far enough they cannot reach the pedals

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by m463 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @12:36AM (#35397187)
It's amazing that only legislation has been able to add trivially inexpensive backup cameras to cars.

I don't know why every car doesn't have around-the-car view cameras right now. New teslas have all the cameras, but don't show the view!

That goes double for trucks of all types - even though they are professionally driven.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by helaoban on Saturday April 01, 2023 @02:21AM (#35397674)
I drive a Ford Focus, my neighbor drives a new F150. Our parking spots are next to each other, this is what is looks like:

https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/ford-focus-2022-5-d...

I laugh every time I walk to my car because I don't want to cry.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Gordonjcp on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:43AM (#35398818)
I never understood why people feel like they need something the size of a Ford Transit just to potter to the shops and back.

Fine if that's what you happen to have lying around, but why would you choose something like that? It's totally impractical.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by nescioquid on Friday March 31, 2023 @05:56PM (#35394196)
I imagine it is not always possible to distinguish between a car accident and a suicide.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by retrac on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:22PM (#35394530)
> the uptick in driving fatalities [...] An entire generation has to be that much more reckless

Smartphones.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by wizofaus on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:32PM (#35395702)
Which are omnipresent all over the world but I don't believe the uptick in traffic fatalities is (at least in Australia they were considerably lower in 2020-21 due to covid lockdowns. Mind you we also have very strict laws and stiff fines for mobile phone usage while in control of a vehicle, even if it's idling in traffic or, yes, in a drive-thru lane - technically it's illegal to use your phone to pay on that scenario, unless you switch the engine off first).
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by wizofaus on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:49PM (#35396223)
(Just checked, and while there was a slight increase in 2022, road fatalities are still very much trending downward in Aus. Fairly sure we have similar levels of mobile phone usage. We've also seen a surge in average car size, though the sort of massive pickup trucks that seem common in the US are thankfully relatively rare here, despite the popularity of "utes")
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by dave333 on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:33PM (#35394666)
In the US cars likely kill more people through lack of exercise than through accidents. The UK has small compact towns and cities with street layouts designed in the horse and buggy days that force people to get out of their car and walk around the shops - there are very very few if any drive-thru businesses and only the big newer supermarkets have dedicated parking lots.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by rolenthedeep on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:40PM (#35394735)
Something happened during the initial stages of the pandemic. People lost their absolute minds and aggressive and reckless driving got way, way worst than I've ever seen.

Hell, about an hour ago a cop tailgated me while I was going 15 over the limit, wove through traffic to cut me off, run a red light, then damn near ran another driver off the road. No lights, no emergency, just an asshole. This is the behavior you have to expect from all drivers now.

At least two or three times a week I have a close call that would wreck my car or seriously hurt someone, and I pretty much only drive up and down the one road between my house and the office, it's a 5 mile drive.

There's something very deeply wrong in American society, and I don't see things improving any time soon.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by standardUser on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:49PM (#35394812)
I thought people in the US drove like insane idiots long before the pandemic. Weaving in and out of lanes, excessive speeding, road rage over the slightest inconvenience and, the dumbest one to me because it is virtually effortless, failure to use turn signals. It's very easy to drive safely but a good chunk of divers seem to outright refuse.

Having said that, the data backs you up. 7% increase in per capita road fatalities in 2020. Then a 10.5% increase on top of that in 2021!

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by AmVess on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:20PM (#35395607)
Driving like idiots compounded by lack of traffic enforcement as police budgets and staffing decline. I just moved away from a pretty decently sized city, and the police there didn't do any traffic enforcement at all. Not enough manpower to cover traffic and crime.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by adgjlsfhk1 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:45AM (#35397500)
it's not that they don't have the resources, it's that police would rather racially profile people and only perform a traffic stop if they think they can illegally force a search to find or plant drugs.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by rolenthedeep on Saturday April 01, 2023 @12:04PM (#35401347)
No, police are very explicitly choosing to not enforce traffic laws.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by a_e_k on Saturday April 01, 2023 @02:24AM (#35397695)
> failure to use turn signals

Why signal your intentions to your opponent like a chump? They'll just use that information against you to block you from changing lanes, or to duck into a parking lot row ahead of you in a crowded parking lot and steal that empty spot. /s

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by snozolli on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:25AM (#35398700)
I've found that drivers vary tremendously in the US. The best average drivers I've been around were in the California Bay Area. Oregon drivers are generally out of it (left lane freeway camping always started the moment I crossed from CA into OR), and only moderately angry. Arizona had wildly incompetent "snow birds" in the winter and insanely aggressive road raging locals in the summer. I've heard that Boston and New Jersey are like Mad Max with potholes.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by theGnuMe on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:14PM (#35395554)
>There's something very deeply wrong in American society, and I don't see things improving any time soon.

Any hypothesis as to what it is? I think it is a lack of community. We've become transactional and virtual/online communities are not sufficient.

In terms of driving I think it got a lot worse during the pandemic because with the lack of daily commuter traffic allowed people to drive faster and hence more recklessly.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by wolverine876 on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:36PM (#35396138)
The encouragement of hate, outrage, prejudice, and mis- and disinformation. It's pretty transparent - we see the expected outcomes.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by chii on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:13AM (#35397353)
this is how a high-trust society devolve into a low trust society. It's quite alarming, and it seems to me, that nothing is being done to reverse it.

By the time the "regular" people feel it (ala, the rich people), the problem may be irreversible.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by wolverine876 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @05:34PM (#35404318)
What are you doing about it? Let's start now.

> By the time the "regular" people feel it (ala, the rich people), the problem may be irreversible.

I think they definitely feel it. You can see it here on HN. You can see it everyone resigning, in the vogue of despairing and not caring.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by rjbwork on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:38AM (#35397473)
> We've become transactional and virtual/online communities are not sufficient.

Yes. This is the commodity fetish and alienation that Marx spoke of. It is the natural consequence of unfettered capitalism that seeks to maximally exploit the labor class.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by jessaustin on Saturday April 01, 2023 @10:02AM (#35400390)
All day long, every day, the news media attempts to gin up more wars. They foster ignorance, fear, and hatred. Foreign leaders who haven't been in the news for years are made the primary focus overnight, just because that's where we're supposed to bomb next. Not all of us can even imagine why we should fight people in other hemispheres who've never done anything to us, so our fear and hatred lands closer to home. That's a big reason we have such tyrannical prison sentences.

If we didn't have a gigantic military that spends over a trillion dollars a year on the purchase of armaments, our armaments manufacturers would have less money to make our news media insane.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by havblue on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:16PM (#35396374)
I've noticed the post pandemic crazy driving anecdotally as well and it's alarming. Lots more tailgating, lane changing where they almost clip you and driving really fast while passing on the right.

I think defensive driving is becoming more important as well and I worry far more about driving at night, as people get more erratic, than I used to.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by zol on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:40AM (#35397481)
I’ve noticed this trend as well around my neighborhood since the pandemic.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by dTal on Saturday April 01, 2023 @12:29PM (#35401568)
>Something happened during the initial stages of the pandemic. People lost their absolute minds and aggressive and reckless driving got way, way worst than I've ever seen.

That's easy enough. People who were socially minded stayed home; people with an individualistic attitude ignored recommendations. You hear similar stories from people working in customer service - the average quality of the person they had to deal with plummeted.

What's a bit peculiar is that, according to you, road culture has not recovered.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by antibasilisk on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:44PM (#35394775)
>Cars are an order of magnitude safer than they used to be and we were trending towards 0. An entire generation has to be that much more reckless than before to make that kind of a dent.

Jevons Paradox perhaps; you make the cars safer, so people feel more empowered to drive recklessly.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by dudul on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:50PM (#35394824)
Re: car fatalities, one word: phones.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Gigachad on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:14PM (#35395964)
Phones exist everywhere. Why would Americans be more affected?
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by sobkas on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:31PM (#35396097)
> Phones exist everywhere. Why would Americans be more affected?

Because with advent of SUVs you can't actually see most of the things that you normally would see through your car window. Because SUVs are bigger people believe they are safer, they are deathtraps on wheels for everyone involved. Also because they are bigger drivers believe they can bully everyone else on the street or just don't pay any attention to what is going outside.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by amrocha on Saturday April 01, 2023 @03:47AM (#35398165)
Right so not the phones then
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by poulsbohemian on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:51PM (#35394835)
>"1 in 25 Americans being born will not make it to their 40th birthday." >(The cardio health one doesn't seem as strong).

Here's a bit of an anecdote, but I bet my family isn't alone in this type of story... my cousin died from cardiac arrest at age 45. Keeping the story here brief - he was a high-income business owner who got into a tough spot in his marriage and business, found himself without health insurance when he had a medical episode. Knew something was wrong and would likely bankrupt him - and we think that's why he didn't follow up with his doctor and was dead two weeks later. Congenital issue, could have been easily resolved - but without health insurance it was probably a death sentence either physically or financially.

Now, this was just as the ACA was coming into play - but I'd argue it's moot. The ACA was well-intentioned, but has not actually improved the insurance or care situation for the majority of Americans. I need a surgery at present that won't be covered by my insurance to any meaningful degree, and being in rural America my care options are limited. So I'll live with regular pain because the system doesn't work. And I hear stories like this in my social circles weekly.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by theGnuMe on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:16PM (#35395572)
That's really tragic to hear. In your case doesn't the ACA limit your out of pocket max?
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by throwaway173738 on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:31PM (#35396096)
Only for marketplace plans. For plans purchased through employers the sky is the limit.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by magicalist on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:26PM (#35396799)
> For plans purchased through employers the sky is the limit

Almost everyone with insurance has a maximum out of pocket limit now. It's possible to have a grandfathered employer health plan, but they'd have to have been running it since 2010 without substantial changes since then, including in benefits or cost increases. There are very few employer health insurance plans that would have met that criteria, and even fewer who tried to.

They also have to directly inform you that you're on a grandfathered plan, so it should not be a mystery to those who somehow are.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by jjav on Saturday April 01, 2023 @02:39AM (#35397771)
> Almost everyone with insurance has a maximum out of pocket limit now.

"maximum out of pocket" does not mean what any normal person would interpret it to mean. More than one year I have had to pay way more than the "maximum out of pocket".

The insurance company gets to decide unilaterally how much of what you pay out of pocket is credited toward their tally of what you supposedly paid out of pocket. In several years I've paid a lot more out of pocket than what the insurance statement credits me for having paid.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by sgerenser on Saturday April 01, 2023 @10:49AM (#35400724)
Why? Can you give me an example here, particularly as it relates to a medically necessary surgery or procedure? Or does it come down to difference in interpretation of what is medically necessary?
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by jjav on Sunday April 02, 2023 @01:08AM (#35407378)
I don't have a specific example handy, it's been a few years.

How it works is that blue shield (with employers I've typically always had blue shield in California) sends a statement saying your doctor visit cost $XXXX, blue shield will pay $YYY and this will credit $ZZZ towards your annual out of pocket total.

But $XXXX - $YYY > $ZZZ, so what I actually had to pay to the doctor was more than blue shield credits me for having paid. So at the end of the year what I've actually had to pay has been well above the so-called "out of pocket maximum".

It doesn't happen most years (to me), but has happened on multiple years.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by sgerenser on Sunday April 02, 2023 @09:58AM (#35410561)
Based on the providers contract with Blue Shield, you should not be liable for anything beyond what they consider to be your out of pocket cost. If they requested more, you could have just refused to pay it, and get your insurance involved if they pushed back.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by maxerickson on Sunday April 02, 2023 @10:13AM (#35410700)
For covered care anyway.

Labs that don't have a clear medical justification are probably easy to end up paying for out of pocket without getting the amount counted against the out of pocket insurance limit.

Would expect that to be clearly delineated on the bills though.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by rovolo on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:19PM (#35395593)
JFYI, the ACA did have a large impact on the health insurance coverage through expanding medicaid. The percentage uninsured was halved from 18.4% to 9.1-9.8% (in states which expanded medicaid. In nonexpansion states, the uninsured percentage went from 22.7% to 17.1-19%).

I hear you about the health care situation though. Health insurance is definitely not the same thing as health care.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/migrated_legacy_fil...

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by grecy on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:57PM (#35395868)
It doesn't even have to involve death.

My buddy separated his shoulder snowboarding when he was 22, but had no health insurance because he was working at the ski resort for something like $6/hr (US Ski Resorts are legally allowed to pay below minimum wage... go figure).

So he never went to the Doctor, because he couldn't afford it. He's 41 now, and that shoulder impacts almost every day of his life.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by marcus_holmes on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:03PM (#35396650)
I never understand why you guys put up with this. The French are burning Paris to the ground because their retirement age got put up 2 years. But America puts up with the most outrageous hardship with barely a whimper.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by grecy on Saturday April 01, 2023 @12:00AM (#35396972)
> I never understand why you guys put up with this

Oh, I'm not American, and actually I was there as a 22 year old Australian and was horrified. The idea that people in a Developed country didn't have access to a doctor was shocking - I'd never seen that before, and simply didn't understand. I thought everyone could just go to the doctor when they needed to.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by auggierose on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:11PM (#35395023)
Drivers in the US just seem incredibly aggressive to me. I remember crossing some street in downtown Pittsburgh, and a car coming towards me. The guy was clearly seeing me, and accelerating instead of slowing down. I jumped forwards and survived.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by carlmr on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:12PM (#35395037)
I find American drivers are chill compared to Germans.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by auggierose on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:17PM (#35395079)
I haven't been nearly killed by a German driver yet, and on purpose, and German drivers had many more opportunities to do so than American ones. But yeah, my impressions are of course only anecdotal, but then again, 100% verified from my perspective.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by wizofaus on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:36PM (#35395740)
Autobahn-driving can definitely be nerve-wracking if you're not used to it, being flashed to change lanes when you're already doing over 150 k/h is quite disconcerting to say the least! But there is at least a system to it, and on regular roads Germans seem to drive pretty sensibly.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by booleandilemma on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:15PM (#35395559)
American people seem aggressive in general, and I say that as one. I didn't realize how bad it was until I finally went on a vacation overseas. I don't know if it's something in the water or what.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by meany on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:44PM (#35395785)
Ive lived around the country and the driving culture varies significantly from region to region. East Coast cities are the worst, whereas I find Seattle, where I live now, very east going. Having moved from the east coast, it shocked me to see drivers just stop for pedestrians, even outside of marked off crosswalks. Try that in NY and you’re dead.

I saw the same thing in Europe, southern Italy was very chaotic roads compared to Northern Italy.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by rendang on Saturday April 01, 2023 @02:47AM (#35397824)
In Seattle all unmarked intersections are crosswalks & pedestrians waiting to cross have right of way.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by rjsw on Saturday April 01, 2023 @04:02AM (#35398240)
Italians can't drive.

Every other nation in Europe manages to keep the car between the white lines, Italians can't even manage it when parking.

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by zol on Saturday April 01, 2023 @01:47AM (#35397511)
As a counterpoint I’m an Australian living in the Bay Area and drivers here are more considerate than back home. In law abiding Melbourne where I grew up, drivers will happy run you over if you’re jay walking because they supposedly have right of way.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by jpeter on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:12PM (#35395038)
I guess driving fatalities are up because of texting and driving.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by tmnvix on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:20PM (#35396006)
> An entire generation has to be that much more reckless than before to make that kind of a dent

Or maybe they are driving more dangerous vehicles (e.g. bigger and heavier)?

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by Scubabear68 on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:06PM (#35396307)
It’s the phones. I have to drive my kids regularly 45 minutes to school on a highway with very high accident rates. It is people staring at their phones approaching dangerous parts of the road with lots of sudden stops and interchanges.

A sudden secondary effect - legal pot is leading to many more stoned drivers where I live (NJ).

Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by teo_zero on Saturday April 01, 2023 @04:55AM (#35398567)
Phones are not unique to US, though. They don't explain the gap.
Re:The average American has the same life expectancy as the ... by jamil7 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @12:04AM (#35396989)
> Cars are an order of magnitude safer than they used to be and we were trending towards 0.

This isn’t true for the US, cars are actually more dangerous due to the prevalence of SUVs that skirt safety regulations by being sold as light trucks.