The older I get the more astounded I am that our friendship with Andrei and Volodya happened at all, and the more regret I have that none of us retained any way to contact each other later. It was 1991. I was the only one of us to have an email address at the time.

In SA our office DSL in 2010 had a cap of 500MB a month.

Not to absolve the USSR here but it's not like the US was a neutral party either. It's like, if you complained about the lack of consumer products in Cuba, how could you discuss that without bringing up the sanctions the US has placed on them for decades?

For decades now the US has turned these extractive processes on their own people. I'm sorry but, your post reads as extremely superficial.

Here is one about striking workers masacred: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre

Or there is this Guatemalan coup d’état which was lobbied for by United Fruit Company: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27éta...

So, yes. I think it might just happen that buying banana from somewhere keeps them poor. These are so well known cases that I somewhat suspect you asked the question as a softball.

What would happen if there was no market for those bananas?

Maybe they find other ways to thrive, maybe not. Banan is not the only thing they could grow, and growing things is not the only way to make an economy work.

This is not an abstract economy problem from a econ 101 textbook. History cannot be rolled like that back and “what-if” is not a question we can answer.

What we know is that violence has been commited with the direct goal of securing said banana supply.

To be fair, it's not clear whether it would have had any impact by the late 20th century.

Keep in mind Cuba is free to trade with 192+ countries all around the world. Easy to blame everything on the embargo, harder to take a long hard look at the systemic corruption, incompetence, generalized theft and human rights violations plaguing the country.

Is that the case? I don't know a lot about how the blocade works but Wikipedia says "the United States has threatened to stop financial aid to other countries if they trade non-food items with Cuba" and "US-based companies, and companies that do business with the US, which trade in Cuba do so at the risk of US sanctions."

> Cuba’s main export goods are agricultural products, beverages, tobacco and mineral fuels, for which there is no preferential trade regime.

> The main export goods from the EU to Cuba are food, chemicals products, plastics, basic metals and their manufactures, machinery, household appliances and transport equipment.

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/cuba/european-union-and-cuba_en?s...

https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/exports/cuba

Since most countries ask for US dollars in order to trade and that these have to be held by US entities, you're basically guaranteed to have assets that can be seized.

Countries don't ask for US dollars in order to trade. Although it is common for some goods to be priced in US dollars, companies (rather than countries) will price and trade in whatever currency suits them, often with assistance from banks providing foreign exchange services. The banks don't need to be US banks, and goods priced in USD do not need to be paid for in USD if you go through an intermediary, which is common practice.

> Countries don't ask for US dollars in order to trade. Although it is common for some goods to be priced in US dollars, companies (rather than countries) will price and trade in whatever currency suits them, often with assistance from banks providing foreign exchange services. The banks don't need to be US banks, and goods priced in USD do not need to be paid for in USD if you go through an intermediary, which is common practice.

Countries do ask for US dollars in order to trade. You can notionally trade in another currency, but the value of this currency is related to the number of US dollars it can buy, and eventually that is what ends up happening. Some countries will set up currency swap mechanisms in order to allow for trade without relying on the dollar, but these are few and far between. It is generally not possible to do such trade without at some level going through the US dollar. This is a natural consequences of the fact that the US dollar is the only dominant reserve currency, meaning that it is by far the currency with the largest trade surplus. The structural reasons for this trade surplus, which I won't get into, are the reason why international trade ends up with the US dollar. For these reasons, the threat if being banned from using the US dollar, if your assets aren't seized, is sufficient to greatly dissuade trade.

Cuba is not the only example of this. American secondary sanctions on Iran led to the cancellation of contracts between European companies and Iranian companies en masse, and were cited as the reason why it happened.

> The parent comment stands up. The embargo is not a reasonable explanation for the poor circumstances of the Cubans.

Cuba has a GDP per capita of 9500$ USD nominal (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?location...) - which is above the average for Latin America and the Cardibbean. We can look at Iran for an example of a country under an identical sanctions regime, which suffered a 50% fall in GDP. The thesis that most of its economic problems come from the sanctions regime seems strong, as the closest analog suffered a halving of GDP and because it is nonetheless economically a strong performer for the region.

If you look at a microscopic level, the lack of access to specific products is a common theme in Cuban economic problems, and this is certainly attributable to the sanctions regime.

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

> "Are you rich?" No. I have a good student job. "Are your parents in government?" No. My dad's dead; Cassie's dad is a doctor in another state. "Anyone can shop here?" Absolutely.

In multiple communist countries in Eastern Europe, bananas were special because they only came ~once a year from Cuba. Anyone having access to them outside that time and/or getting more than a few would fit the profiles he described.

By contrast, some people in Eastern Europe had fancy ski huts available to them. You or I might have asked the same questions if you'd gone skiing with them in the 80s only to find out that his father is a draftsman. "Don't all of you have ski houses?"

You may be otherwise piss-poor, wage wise.

The supermarkets has improved greatly though - not quite the USA level, but on par with Western Europe or sometimes slightly better (more chains, easier to eat healthy)

https://i.imgur.com/ImxdsUG.jpeg

(Note that there are multiple apartments shown here - every "3K", "2K", or "1K" corresponds to one apartment with that many bedrooms. The "fraction" after that shows the total area and the combined bedroom area of each apartment in m^2.)

I think the best way to describe that arrangement was a "no-cost rent". You only had to pay utilities, and you couldn't have it taken away from you arbitrarily. But e.g. selling it or even renting it out would be impossible (legally; the black market existed regardless), nor could it be inherited.

There was also the "build it to live in it" condominium programs that opened more opportunities specifically to those just starting their adult lives, who would otherwise qualify at most for a room in a communal apartment, and couldn't possibly afford a downpayment on that mortgage (15-20 monthly salaries). But those came late - many weren't even completed by 1991 - and they had considerable pushback from many local authorities, partly on the basis that such luxury was "undeserved" and unfair to older people who were in the line for regular apartments, and partly because some of their member-elected governance councils were starting to get political ambitions and push for more local self-administration in the 80s.

That was similar in a lot of post-war Europe, e.g. for my grandparents in the UK.

The Americans have always lived in abundance and luxury in comparison.

The allotment of living space (counted as bedroom area per person) varied depending on the city, and sometimes there was a difference between the nominal and the actual number. In Moscow and Leningrad the designated minimum was around 7 m^2 per person, but in practice applying for a new apartment would be unlikely to succeed if you had more than 5 m^2. In some of the provinces, it could go as low as 3 m^2 per person.

And keep in mind that this is the minimum that entitled you to apply for a new apartment. Which means that you'd be put in a line to wait your turn to actually get one when one is available, say, 10 years later.

A very clear memory for her is her Grandfather waiting 6 hours in line to get a banana because she said she wanted one, when she was about 4 or 5.

It's so weird to see the same sentiments echoed, yet makes sense given the above.

Ending hunger is impressive.

And then I told Andrei and Volodya about Banana Republics.

Of course Capitalism looks fantastic from the exploiters’ perspective.

Today more than ever it should be clear that the opulence of America in the 90s is completely unsustainable on a global scale.

That way of live has always been reserved for a global minority, one many of us may find ourselves excluded from in our lifetimes.

It isn't clear at all. The material conditions of the 90s has and will be surpassed at higher efficiency using smaller energy budgets.

Communism, or any other system, can’t make that same claim.

Unless you have an alternative, your claims of exploration will fall on deaf ears.

A family living on a farm and providing most of their own needs, living sustainably for generations, is by most definitions “living in poverty” because they consume very little.

Now if you strip that family of their land and force them to work in factories their consumption goes way up since they no longer are able to support themselves.

That family has now been “lifted out of poverty”.

But yes, you are correct, no system has made people more depended on exploitation then Capitialism.

You're romanticizing primitivism.

You’re idealizing the crushing poverty of sustenance farming.

Have you ever been to a developing country? Talked to the families who choose to abandon their farming and work in a factory so their kids can get proper healthcare, better schooling and living in a house without a toilet that feeds into the river?

Plenty of them could continue to work as farmers and choose not too. Who are you to claim their choice is wrong?

I’m guessing you’ve lived a comfy life and take all of these things for granted and then sneer at those who want the same.

It’s pretty clear even “state capitalism” leads to wealth and the elimination of abject poverty.

> It’s pretty clear even “state capitalism” leads to wealth and the elimination of abject poverty.

What even is the difference between such heavy state capitalism and socialism? Socialist economies existed with various level of market involvement and economic freedom, see Lenin's NEP - was the USSR initially a champion of free market reform?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism

By the way, elections in China are only at very local levels. Most of what we do elections for in western countries are indirect elections there. The Congress is not directly elected by people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China

However you might want to check the 1929 elections in fascist Italy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Italian_general_election

I don't really think communism is a viable economic system, because of, you know, people. However, a couple of points should be made:

- Communism has always had to deal with enmity of world's richest and most influential nations (USA and UK in particular). Possibly because communism has had this inbuilt idea that it needs to spread to everywhere, whether they like it or not (kind of like some religions). Could this have been otherwise? I don't know.

- Between 1922 and 1962, USSR's economy grew at an average of about 9% real per annum, despite having to deal with the massive trauma of World War 2. Also, income inequality decreased. Population went from ~140 million in poverty to ~240 million living, um, not in poverty.

So... it is not quite as simple as you make it out to be.

Growing from a bad start and where you can copy a more developed nation makes this easier.

https://bearkunin.medium.com/soviet-union-facts-and-fictions...

True. But you know what really makes economic growth easier? Foreign aid. Also trade.

The USSR otoh had to deal with sanctions.

https://www.americanforeignrelations.com/E-N/Embargoes-and-S...

I don't know what other friendlies you mean. USSR installed communist/socialist governments in the countries it liberated from German occupation after WW2, but those relationships were... complicated.

Communist countries wanted to export communism, maybe for all the good and bad reasons democratic countries want to export democracy. However there were plenty of people in the west that wanted their country to become communist, especially up to the 80s. So the enmity against all the communist world was also a matter of internal affairs, to contain internal opposition.

On reflection, whether communism holds extra appeal in poor countries, or whether it was an accident of history that *rich* capitalist countries faced off against poor communist countries, communism's chances were kind of hamstrung by this enmity. The playing field was uneven.

So which system is truly better at lifting people out of poverty, all other things being equal, remains uncertain.

I won't ask you to show appreciation for heroes like Haber and Bosch and Borlaug and all the rest, but they have my thanks.

I can only go "???" to this. America has only gotten more "opulent" since the 90s. The US has not seen any sort of decline since the 90s in fact we've seen the boom of one of the biggest industries in the world, that allows us to even discuss this on our computers.

Actually, that happened in not since the 1990s, and we were discussing issues like this on our computers then, too. I know, I was there.

But the opulence of the 1990s wasn’t because it was the height of technology, or average earnings, it was in large part driven by fashion and attitudes and their effect on lifestyle and the marketplace, driven in part by the lingering visible-status-oriented attitudes of the 1980s, in part by the perception of geopolitical and economic invincibility (both the–at that point–longest economic expansion in the modern period plus the fall of the Soviet Union, lopsided military engagements like Panama and the First Gulf War, etc.)

Greater aggregate and even median wealth looks and feels different in the shadow of the Great Recession and the Afghan and Iraq Wars.

nevertheless, 01992 was a long time after democracy was restored in honduras in 01981 and the civil war began in guatemala in 01960, and bananas are still cheap today, including here in argentina, so evidently cheap bananas don't require the particular much more severe kind of exploitation the term 'banana republic' was invented to describe

It turns out that since 1980 there has been economic growth, making the production and shipping of various commodities more affordable.

If banana republics weren't necessary to keep bananas affordable and profitable they would never have existed in the first place.

this is a false premise

forms of domination exist not because they are necessary but because they are achievable—because those who support them are better organized and resourced than those who oppose them

those of us here in the 'global south' are generally not a fan of the term, lumping together as it does botswana, myanmar, the philippines, and argentina under a single rubric; it reflects a cartoonishly shallow analysis of the real social relations in the world system

They drove to whatever that town was and he said, pick a store. After a couple of hours, I think his mind was blown.

This was a fairly rural, poor part of the state. Later they went to Atlanta and the guy was gaga over... everything.

Supermarket - https://youtu.be/aBA41QgIty8

Costco - https://youtu.be/UhzQCeKlFDo

Texas Roadhouse - https://youtu.be/xRtitCJv4cc

Home Depot - https://youtu.be/TLsscvpsH8E

"This account has been suspended."

We have so much, we take it for granted.

The USA's stated goal is regime change. It’s willing to make life worse for Cubans to achieve that goal.

cuban here. please dont pretend america care about democracy. america have interests. when they need new regime they suppress democracy as needed or push for democracy. main idea to get some regime subservient to american economic interest.

why america has so many migrants at border but america do nothing or even talk about what crisis happening in central or south america country? instead they fighting proxy war in ukraine. why? more lucrative and profit opportunity in ukraine. south america not have resources or proxy war opportunity.

and given state of American government..race issues..economic issue..growing gap..unaffordable housing..America last country to dictate how other country should run.

i not favor cuban government, but your post bullshit. you idea that you know more about cuba like you on some pedestal.watch as you infrastructure crumble you homeless and drug population rise

If Cuba was a democracy then I would disagree with the sanctions, but I don't think it is wrong to pressure a government into giving proper voting rights to its people. If Cuba actually implemented democracy and USA still sanctioned them then that would be bad, but that isn't the situation we are in.

You easily hit the 56% rate on income tax and even the poorest workers pay 25% VAT, meanwhile wealthy landowners and shareholders pay no inheritance tax and minimal capital gains and property tax.

So it impedes social mobility and encourages hard workers to move abroad - this has been made much worse with the refugee crisis too, as they're practically discouraged to work hard. And now look at the healthcare crisis, etc. as wages are a pittance compared to the USA, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, etc.

But I am not stupid, I too moved to Switzerland to work since it netted me many times more money per hour worked. That is why I said that Sweden isn't perfect, I'm not sure what the perfect system is, but Sweden is still pretty good.

And VAT is a double-edged sword... It's the only tax that essentially nobody can avoid, and thus the only tax that also applies to people who are already wealthy and could otherwise live their life without paying any tax.

So, communism, at least according to US conservative perspective.

The US is no more responsible for the abused citizens of Cuba than the abused citizens of North Korea.

> The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights of the Organization of American States has informed the US Government that such activities violate international law and has requested that the US take immediate steps to exempt food and medicine from the embargo.

Exempting Food and Agriculture Products from U.S. Economic Sanctions: Status and Implementation - https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RL33499.html

> In approving the FY2001 agriculture appropriations act, Congress codified the lifting of unilateral sanctions on commercial sales of food, agricultural commodities, medicine, and medical products to Iran, Libya, North Korea, and Sudan, and extended this policy to apply to Cuba (Title IX of H.R. 5426, as enacted by P.L. 106-387; Trade Sanctions Reform and Export Enhancement Act of 2000, or TSRA). Other provisions place financing and licensing conditions on sales to these countries. Those that apply to Cuba, though, are permanent and more restrictive. TSRA also gives Congress the authority in the future to veto a President’s proposal to impose a sanction on the sale of agricultural or medical products.

Funnily he was quite disappointed at the fruit situation coming from a tropical country, but that was more about freshness than quantity.

While I do not have a taste for tropical fruit there are the bananas we encountered in Africa that ruined me. Since encountering those I have pretty much zero interest in US bananas, what we had there can't be bought in the US because they don't ship well.

It saddens me that the leftist clowns of today have forgotten the importance of material wealth.

https://youtu.be/XzNDGN6r1bw

Magnit (grocery chain) in Krasnodar: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnit

Cities all over the country as small as 50k have these stores and their competitors where you can buy fresh Mexican avocados and sparkling new Korean appliances.

Or, if you don’t want to go in store you can buy any item under the sun on Wildberries, Ozon and have it delivered to your front door.

I've also heard (from Russians) that water access in rural Russia is poor.

I've been to grocery stores in Moscow, btw.

Russia is huge, yes - there are some very isolated places with poor people and without some utilities.

There’s also a lot of weekend (part time) dacha summer houses that don’t have full utility hookups.

And large portions of the population still cannot afford one.

The intersection of those two frequently ends up in the army, as that is the only social mobility they know.

We wanted to give him something else, but how do you do that without being offensive? One guy had a plan. When Nikolai was showering in the hall showers, this guy went in and stole Nikolai's cologne and tossed it. The next day, he was puzzled as to who stole his cologne. We said, "it's alright, we'll get you a replacement" and took him to the mall to one of those booths with knockoff designer perfume and cologne.

The guy was just in awe of the whole place. Eyes wide open, looking at every store. At the cologne place, first sample he smelled, he lit up, smiled, and said, "Yes, this is much better than my old cologne."

The guy that tossed his old one paid like the $20 for the bottle.

Later, it turned out the guy got his girlfriend pregnant on the night he left for the US, and had to go back to marry her after the semester. Such a bummer. Hope he's doing well with a nice family because he was such a friendly and fun guy.

Basically it amounted to myself and about a dozen others, organized into a small chamber orchestra going to Russia for a summer, and in exchange a group of Russians formed into folk/pop entertainment group visiting and staying with us for a while during the school year.

I can't say that 1995 in post-USSR Ekaterinburg was incredibly different than 1991's pre-Russia Sverdlovsk. There were a few bits of free market showing up, but the general economic situation there was pretty dire. Even for me, who grew up in a very rural area and quite poor, felt like I came from nearly unimaginable wealth.

A couple years later the State Department and Russia repeated the exchange and I had a chance to show my host mother around the local shopping malls and such. The "change" from communism had already happened, the Russians by then were by and large waiting for America to arrive.

It was an amazing experience, once in a lifetime, and it has given me lots of both wanderlust and perspective that I've carried with me for the rest of my life. I was very happy to see the improvement in standard of living in many parts of Russia over the years, but I'm very sad to see what they're wasting it on at the moment in Ukraine.

The Russians played half late 80s early 90s synth pop and half Russian folk music complete with wardrobe changes. They were really cool.

The Internet was very nascent at the time and they all seemed nonplussed by the BBS scene.

My friend's high school physics teacher had many memorable lines, one of them being:

"Bananas! I saw my first banana when I was already in college!"

My father hosted a few Americans in (back then) communist Poland. To them it was like time travel to some bizarro world bygone era. They really wanted to drive his car, which was also a "classic" tech and design wise.

Anyway all this spilled over to the 90s, making the weirdest things to be considered premium goods, like Vans shoes, vacation in Malta/Greece or McDonald's.

Eventually this all ended and I remember the exact moment I realized it: I saw a somewhat overweight teenager in a mall holding a pizza slice.

Every part of this sight would be out of place in the mid 90s, not to mention the previous system.

I would love to, but at this point they might all be dead… :(

Sitting in a hotel bar in Kiev with him, drinking vodka, and listening to tales of the Pacific theater -- mostly just antics with his buddies, but some flight stories -- was pretty amazing. I wish I had kept a journal back then, because I've mostly forgotten any specific anecdotes.

This part is weird. Soviet Union was getting a firehose worth of bananas from Vietnam (?) in exchange for weapons. If there wasn't a lack of something in post-Perestroika times, that'd be the bananas. They weren't in every shop, but they were very much accessible and inexpensive.