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Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by Rebelgecko on Thursday September 29, 2022 @12:40PM (#33023235)
Ironically, I bet if that Stadia would've done much better if it had launched with the promise of "if we do shut it down, we'll refund all your purchases"
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by tshaddox on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:46PM (#33024495)
Funny story. Two years ago they gave away "Stadia Premiere Edition" kits for free, which was a Chromecast Ultra and a Stadia controller which I believe retailed for USD 100. I wasn't particularly interested, but I figured it would be worth a try.

But when I got the hardware I tried signing up and realized that apparently I had signed up for the Stadia free trial 6 months earlier. I vaguely remember trying for literally a few minutes on my laptop. This means that the $100 of promotional hardware they sent me is completely useless for its intended purpose.

It's genuinely sad that some manager or team went to all the trouble of getting the budget for this hardware promotion, but couldn't or didn't reset the free trial for the Google accounts of the recipients. But it might be a clear sign of the general level of competence with which the entire Stadia project was executed.

On the bright side, the Chromecast is still quite useful, although I'm not personally using it and haven't found someone to give mine to. Last I checked there wasn't any way to use the Stadia controller for anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if people could figure out how to "jailbreak" it and make it useful.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by icelancer on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:49PM (#33024531)
It works over its standard USB-C interface with a computer.

I got the same deal you did and use my Stadia controller with ROMs on my laptop when traveling. Works great. Excellent controller, too.

The wireless interface is actually WiFi and some form of Bluetooth and not easily jailbroken last time I checked.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by inerte on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:35PM (#33025930)
I use the Stadia controller which I got for being a YouTube Premium subscriber to play Xbox Cloud games. Works flawlessly!
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by totaldude87 on Thursday September 29, 2022 @05:53PM (#33027805)
I finally find some use for stadia controller then
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by bombcar on Thursday September 29, 2022 @07:07PM (#33028560)
This whole sub thread reminds me of the reuse of the :CueCat

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by icelancer on Friday September 30, 2022 @03:44AM (#33032126)
I had one of these too!
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by Flameancer on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:17PM (#33025691)
Yea they should definitely open source the firmware or at least do one last update to make it Bluetooth compatible. I as well got the promo deal.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by tshaddox on Thursday September 29, 2022 @02:05PM (#33024772)
That's good to know. I think the WiFi and/or Bluetooth was what I had looked for and found nothing. I'd want to use it for games on my Apple TV or Nintendo Switch.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by hbn on Thursday September 29, 2022 @06:01PM (#33027894)
Assuming it's possible, they should really patch the controllers to be used like a typical bluetooth controller.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by xster on Thursday September 29, 2022 @11:26PM (#33030532)
I also got a premier kit, got the nice hardware, then got an error saying the workspace I signed up for the promotional offer with is not eligible for using stadia.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by hbn on Thursday September 29, 2022 @05:59PM (#33027869)
I got the same bundle and had the same issue (already used the trial for like a minute just to see if it worked)

I had a secondary Google account for app publishing, and I was able to switch to that and start another trial there. Not that this information is really any use to you now!

For what it's worth, my experience was pretty bad. Had tons of lag spikes on my 50/5 down/up internet.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by Baeocystin on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:30PM (#33025875)
It's been a while, but I seem to remember using my OnLive controller for a good while after system shutdown as a Bluetooth media controller. I'll bet someone will figure something out.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by pavon on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:48PM (#33024521)
Or at least use a business model that didn't require your customers to put complete trust in the fact that you wouldn't shutdown, when you have a reputation for killing projects.

I'm not a hardcore gamer and have a pretty weak desktop by gaming standards. If this was setup like an all-you-can-eat subscription, or an al-carte rental, I would have jumped on it in a heartbeat, and if it went away, oh well, I got what I paid for.

But the fact that that you had to "purchase" individual games made it a complete non-starter for me. If I purchase something, I want to actually own it, forever, not have temporary access to it at the whim of the publisher/service. I don't trust any online service to stay active indefinitely, and Google doubly so.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by odessacubbage on Thursday September 29, 2022 @05:42PM (#33027647)
what's also important here is that people are very invested in the ownership of their games, probably more so than they are of their films/their music. 'your games' are intrinsically tied to your saves in those games; your characters, your items, all the bullshit grinding you did once and never want to have to do ever again. in a very real sense, "You" are in your games in a way that isn't true of movies or music or the other formats of media that have been relinquished to the cloud.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by josefresco on Thursday September 29, 2022 @12:46PM (#33023348)
Yes! I timidly used the service knowing that Google might kill it. If they promised me a refund I would have probably spent a couple hundred dollars on content, controllers and a pro membership.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by jamiek88 on Thursday September 29, 2022 @12:51PM (#33023450)
Yes it was a decent investment to get started, too much for a whim.

I seriously thought about it but ended up scoring an Xbox and game pass and my main reason was I have to buy the games at full price for Stadia and google will deffo shut it down sooner rather than later so too risky.

Game pass is amazing for someone who isn’t a hardcore call of duty type gamer! I’ve been away from gaming since playing tiger woods on the OG Xbox so being able to play so many different types of games is awesome.

I like forza horizons!

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by sylens on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:19PM (#33024015)
Google's mistake was not choosing to go with a Game Pass type model - but then again, they didn't have the content as they have had to work to get each of the games offered running on Linux. It's why they have had to pay millions to developers to make Stadia versions available.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by sbarre on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:34PM (#33024293)
Just for clarity, they are refunding hardware and software purchases but not membership fees.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by iLoveOncall on Thursday September 29, 2022 @02:30PM (#33025106)
How would Stadia shutting down justify you not getting a pro membership? It's something you pay monthly anyway, it's not like you get less of your money worth if they close the service 2 years after your subscription was used, unlike hardware and games.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by anonymousab on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:51PM (#33026141)
They straight up incompetently dodged the question whenever it came up and tried to turn it into some patronizing and belittling "we understand that you're scared of the future" statement every single time.

They deserved to fail on that point alone. Either promise refunds or promise none; either way you're signaling a form of confidence in your product and making the expectations clear to your users.

Refusing to answer on that point made it clear where their confidence was and how weasely they felt they needed to be to sell their product.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by paxys on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:08PM (#33023790)
I would 100% have signed up and bought games if I was assured that I'd get my money back if the service was shut down in under, say, 3 years.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by dmoy on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:22PM (#33024065)
That's kinda why I keep buying on steam, because they (at least ostensibly) will un-DRM games for download if they ever shut down
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by mey on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:55PM (#33024624)
My steam account is 18 years old. I can still easily download Braid, a game released in 2009, and I apparently played in 2014, install it on my Steam Deck and be playing it again in ten minutes. Considering it has cloud save support, there is a not small chance that my saves may even be intact.

It's that endurance in the platform that has me coming back. I have faith that Valve as a company is in it for the long haul to act as a game store platform and honor my digital purchases. It's allowed me to put several thousand dollars into them.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by dham on Thursday September 29, 2022 @02:38PM (#33025214)
It's really the endurance of Windows more than anything. I can play stuff on Windows 11 mostly the same as I did on Windows XP. I can't play any game from Steam on Mac more than a few years old.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by imran0 on Thursday September 29, 2022 @05:25PM (#33027421)
It's fascinating that I can just click and run a game compiled in 1996 (WINQUAKE) in Windows 11; but my ubuntu installation breaks after not touching it for two months.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by fomine3 on Thursday September 29, 2022 @10:03PM (#33029996)
Also now Wine+Proton works well thanks to Valve. Even if Microsoft dropped compatibility support in the future, some games can be run on Linux.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by zerocrates on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:54PM (#33026181)
Proton offers some of this effect also: Wine/Proton is pretty good at playing lots of old Windows stuff, in some cases better than actual Windows is.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by 5d8767c68926 on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:23PM (#33025774)
Eh, I'm not sure that has ever been a stated policy other than an offhand remark when Steam was much smaller. Valve is unlikely to have the legal right to strip away DRM from other companies games. Especially now that everyone runs their own store front.

Maybe, just maybe they would release DRM-free Valve games, but that is as far as I could imagine they would go.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by DRW_ on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:58PM (#33024675)
They can really only remove the DRM on games that use Steam's own DRM, there are plenty of games on Steam that use third party DRM that they couldn't really do much about.

However, on the flip side, there are also a good amount of games on Steam that are totally DRM free and Valve wouldn't have to do anything for those games in the event they shut down.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by grogenaut on Thursday September 29, 2022 @02:10PM (#33024842)
I believe they've stated in multiple places that they have budgeted for running the auth and entitlement systems. They set aside money in escrow to do that. Those systems are cheap compared to the CDN (which is also getting much cheaper). A small team could have a multi-year runway for running auth and entitlement.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by anotherman554 on Thursday September 29, 2022 @04:28PM (#33026684)
You have no idea who Steam's CEO would be in a scenario where they were shutting down, so you certainly have no idea whether that CEO would un-DRM anything.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by ajnin on Thursday September 29, 2022 @04:15PM (#33026497)
No-one at Steam ever actually said that, and I highly doubt they have the legal and contractual standing to do so if they wanted.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by jerlam on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:29PM (#33024205)
It will be three years and two months from Stadia launch to cancellation. So you'd be ok with getting none of your money back in this situation?
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by paxys on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:35PM (#33024309)
If all the purchases were made on day 1, then sure. That's a lot more playing time than I usually get out of a game anyways. For games/accessories I bought after that – no, I'd expect a refund.

The hardware itself was cheap anyways – like $50 for a Chromecast + controller (and even cheaper with deals and bundles), and you can still use both after the service shuts down. It was the $60-80 per game that was the deal breaker.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by intrasight on Thursday September 29, 2022 @02:43PM (#33025279)
"Google Stadia is a cloud gaming service whereby games can be purchased and played, but don't have to be downloaded to a console or PC."

This was a doomed business model because it blurred subscription and purchase. If it was subscription, there should have been no purchases (hardware or software) necessary. There are millions of people - myself included - who would pay for a subscription game service. Stadia was not that service.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by yencabulator on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:24PM (#33025798)
Stadia had both. Stadia Pro was a subscription that gave you access to a few new games every month, and you could buy (licenses to play) games.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by anonymousab on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:59PM (#33026264)
"stadia" in the public's mind, and how it was primarily communicated and advertised, was a subscription streaming service where you also had to pay full price for games that could only be used on their service and would go away with it.

That's not the "Netflix for games" that it needed to be and stadia pro's limited selection was nowhere near adequate either. As a result, they set themselves up with the most unappealing business model possible for consumers.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by hot_gril on Friday September 30, 2022 @03:49AM (#33032160)
It was confusing marketing. I didn't know what it was until I actually went through with trying it, and even then the game license ownership was unclear to me. It was weird how you'd buy a game upfront at regular price then not pay for streaming it later, UNLESS you paid monthly for Stadia Pro for the ability to stream at higher quality, which also came with some free games and hardware (?), AND there was a free trial version of it (which evidently deleted your free games when it expired).

I assume at this point that the license for the one game I bought was only good for Stadia, and I'm being refunded for it. That's good, cause Far Cry 5 got boring fast.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by intrasight on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:58PM (#33026245)
Had both means blurred - therefore doomed
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by dilap on Thursday September 29, 2022 @12:52PM (#33023466)
That's a promise you can only keep if almost no one buys anything, though. :-)
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by lolinder on Thursday September 29, 2022 @12:57PM (#33023574)
If Stadia had grown to the scale where Google would have had a hard time refunding all purchases, odds are they wouldn't have felt the need to shut it down.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by moffkalast on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:04PM (#33023723)
Problem is though, if they ever decided to shut down they'd have to repay the entire amount of revenue they've made and more.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by foepys on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:12PM (#33023883)
Nobody would have prevented them from changing the ToS after a few years to not refund new purchases after date X. It would have been a bad signal but if the platform was successful people wouldn't really mind.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by kevincox on Thursday September 29, 2022 @02:15PM (#33024913)
If you put it in from the start it wouldn't be an issue. Or even just guarantee refunds from purchases in the past 3 years. So there is a rolling window and you can lessen the impact but closing the store and continuing operating the platform for 1-2 years.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by vineyardmike on Thursday September 29, 2022 @02:37PM (#33025196)
“We’ll refund the purchases made while the service was in public beta”
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by jedberg on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:22PM (#33024056)
Presumably it would be something like "we will refund any purchase if we shut down before 2024" or something like that.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by hvis on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:52PM (#33024580)
I would have liked this kind of promise, but for the general public this marketing message might have sounded differently: "We might shut down before 2024".

Even if some people are kind of used to this happening, stating it more obviously might have a negative effect just as well.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by ncallaway on Friday September 30, 2022 @12:06AM (#33030797)
They wouldn't have to give it a specific timeframe. It could just be a commitment that in the event that they shutdown, they would refund any purchases made within 3 years of their shutdown, and partially refund any purchases made within 5 years.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by bombcar on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:28PM (#33024185)
Just have a rolling refund window - "If we shut down the service in 3 years, we'll give you a full refund, and if between 3-5 years, a half refund".

And then if you need to and don't want to refund, just keep the service limping along for 5 more years.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by yencabulator on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:19PM (#33025721)
The monthly subscription costs will not be refunded, only controllers & games you "bought", instead of played via Pro subscription. If Stadia had been a success, there'd been plenty of Pro subscriptions.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by pbhjpbhj on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:23PM (#33025775)
Surely is down to licensing 'only'? Google presumably didn't develop those games, the games still needed to connect to servers, etc. Arguably, it's a benefit to get a new person on your gaming service so Steam, for example, should adopt all those users is the licensing that Google arranged.

If the terms Google had were "we'll sell licenses for your games, but if we shoot down then you have to accept those users as native users", then uses would have been insured against shut-down. I can't see how those terms are worse than if Google were a retailer of those games?

A lot of AAA games are freemium with IAP, surely the acquisition is Cannondale enough that game companies would go for such a deal?

I suppose there wasn't enough upside for Google as people still bought Stadia without any such promise.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by anonymousab on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:55PM (#33026210)
"we'll make sure you have a way to play your games even if stadia shuts down" would have also been acceptable and would have guaranteed much more good will.

But they failed to adequately engage devs or their customers' desires in the first place, so such an arrangement would have been a comparatively impossible licensing and product goal for them.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by falcor84 on Thursday September 29, 2022 @12:59PM (#33023624)
Well, you can also keep the promise if there are lots of buyers and business goes well.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by crazygringo on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:21PM (#33025750)
Not with developers though. Consumers get refunded, game developers don't get anything back.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by vesinisa on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:19PM (#33024014)
Yeah actually, same here. When Stadia launched I really liked it. The subscription was free for like 3 months. I've not owned a gaming PC in years, but really enjoyed playing Serious Sam and almost completed it. When the free period ended I could've purchased few of the games I most liked but ultimately decided against it because I knew by that time it was inevitably going to be shut down so giving Google any money was a fool's errand.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by ocdtrekkie on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:45PM (#33024477)
A lifecycle policy is a truly underrated component of a good services and software business, and I wish more people both understood that, and more companies had them.

When I buy pretty much any Microsoft product, I can go on their lifecycle policy page and see a date, often five to ten years out, when they commit to continue supporting/securing the product through. If I get more than that, great, but there's a commitment Microsoft is held to up front.

Google cannot make that commitment because Google cannot commit to anything. But it's a large enough company it could afford to do it and eat the cost when it was a bad call. The reason they won't is because Google doesn't view customers as people or partners they need to value.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by matrix_overload on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:25PM (#33025807)
That could have put them to unlimited risk. Let's assume they currently got $1M in revenue and spent $500K on maintenance. They can either refund everyone (buying goodwill for $500K) or book a $500K profit and piss people off. Currently, the estimated value of the goodwill is above $500K, so they are proceeding with a refund.

But it could have been different. They could have got $10M in revenue, then most users would have moved to competing platforms, while still playing previously purchased games on Stadia. This could have left them with a choice between $1M/year running costs to keep the lights on vs. $10M to purchase goodwill that is only worth $1M.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by imron on Thursday September 29, 2022 @08:38PM (#33029312)
> vs. $10M to purchase goodwill that is only worth $1M.

The goodwill is worth far more than $1M because it affects Google's entire reputation.

They already have a reputation of shutting things down.

How many people will look at this, and start considering whether or not they should move off GCP?

How many people will not sign up for their next big new product because of things like this? Which will ironically be likely for that product failing and being shut down (like Stadia).

It's a vicious cycle, and Google is going to have a hard time breaking it.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by aequitas on Thursday September 29, 2022 @02:16PM (#33024928)
I don't remember exactly, but I believe this was promised in some sense when I decided to get on board a year or 2 ago. At the time you got a free Chromecast + Controller when buying Cyberpunk which was also a pretty good deal to pass by.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by dpkirchner on Thursday September 29, 2022 @02:23PM (#33025021)
Someone asked Stadia devs or reps on Reddit if users would have access to purchases games if the service shut down, back when Stadia was announced, and the response was not a "no" but definitely wasn't a "yes".

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stadia/comments/ceuy4w/comment/eu56...

(That said, props to them for refunding folks.)

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by chihuahua on Thursday September 29, 2022 @05:55PM (#33027827)
That the Stadia dev's response on Reddit is pure nonsense, basically just saying that

1. we're committed to supporting this for years to come

2. you can download your game metadata (saved games)

LOL, what are people supposed to do with their game metadata now that Stadia is being shut down? Look at it in a hex editor?

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by Dylan16807 on Thursday September 29, 2022 @09:36PM (#33029794)
> LOL, what are people supposed to do with their game metadata now that Stadia is being shut down? Look at it in a hex editor?

Take your full price refund and rebuy the game at half price.

If you don't have the hardware for it, it's much cheaper now than it was three years ago, or you could use geforce now.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by nailer on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:24PM (#33024105)
BTW when Cyberpunk was released and didn't work, and PS Store / Steam / XBox gave refunds, Stadia was the only platform that refused refunds.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by zorked on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:17PM (#33025679)
It worked well in Stadia.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by TillE on Thursday September 29, 2022 @07:41PM (#33028869)
Cyberpunk was riddled with actual game-breaking bugs on release, it wasn't just graphical glitches and poor performance.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by schnevets on Thursday September 29, 2022 @02:32PM (#33025128)
The question is: Would that be more cost-effective than just outright buying Ubisoft or a similar-sized publisher so your device has some content?
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by hot_gril on Friday September 30, 2022 @03:47AM (#33032147)
I'll bet they would've failed anyway then had to refund even more money. Extra cynical view: Maybe they were afraid of this from the beginning, and that's why they didn't tell anyone.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by dicomdan on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:00PM (#33023626)
They are refunding purchases to users.

But developers aren't getting their time back.

Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by Macha on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:43PM (#33024445)
"and let you export your saved games"
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by appleflaxen on Thursday September 29, 2022 @03:34PM (#33025923)
That is incredibly funny, and incredibly apt.
Re:Google is shutting down Stadia by permo-w on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:49PM (#33024533)
can you imagine marketing or finance allowing a statement like that through?