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Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by mark_l_watson on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:31PM (#31757222)
You can argue either side to this, and make a good case.

My personal preference is to trigger a recession and reduce inflation. The easy cop-out solution is to say a "big f*ck off" to pensioners, lower middle class, and poor people and let inflation soar, but I believe that long term this would be more destructive to the general economy. Better take the long term view here and not kick the can down the street.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:34PM (#31757279)
> personal preference is to trigger a recession and reduce inflation

These aren't binary outcomes. Tight money does nothing to ease supply-side bottlenecks. It does little to target demand displaced by rising energy prices. If those are the principal drivers of inflation, tightening could depress non-energy demand in a way that causes a recession without alleviating inflation. Stagflation. (To be clear, we're not at tight money yet.)

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by bko on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:30PM (#31758172)
> If those are the principal drivers of inflation, tightening could depress non-energy demand in a way that causes a recession without alleviating inflation

You don't think the inflation has anything to do with printing $14 trillion out of thin air, or increasing the M1 money supply from ~4tn in march 2020 to over $20tn today?

https://www.covidmoneytracker.org/

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by mpwoz on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:37PM (#31758268)
The M1 jump is not new money for the most part, it's a reclassification of things that used to be M2 as also being M1 (liquid) https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2021/05/savings-are-now-more...

M2 increased in 2020, but not by as much as you're saying https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by bko on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @06:58PM (#31760518)
Thanks for sharing. I never knew that. The post says savings accounts were moved into M1 because they're pretty liquid now. But what was the real rationale or implications? Odd time to do that move (April 24, 2020)
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by kccqzy on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:38PM (#31760828)
It was because in April 2020 Regulation D was amended to remove the six-transfer-per-month rule. The idea is that COVID may force people to make withdrawals from savings account more often so banks could allow frequent withdrawals from savings accounts, making them more liquid. It's not a coincidence that after the Fed suspended the rule they reclassified savings account as M1.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/supervisionreg/caletters/calt...

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by bryanlarsen on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:45PM (#31758401)
Why not both? Countries that didn't do significant QE are experiencing inflation, which argues that there is a significant supply side issue. Countries that did do significant QE have more inflation, which argues that QE also contributed. It appears that we're getting roughly 4% from each component.

So hopefully the Fed stops raising interest rates when inflation drops to around 4%.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jmcgough on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:29PM (#31759031)
Most economists don't think it's related, or at least a minor cause. Inflation is happening on a global scale right now.

The biggest problem we've had is a breakdown of our supply chain because of the pandemic.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by perryizgr8 on Thursday June 16, 2022 @12:33AM (#31762457)
> Inflation is happening on a global scale right now.

All major global economies have been printing money at unprecented rates last couple of years.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by altpaddle on Thursday June 16, 2022 @12:11PM (#31767715)
Money printing to some degree has gone on everywhere but not at the same magnitude. It should not be surprising that countries have different monetary policy. Mexico for example had very little money printing/stimulus and had 7.68% annualized inflation in April.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by trashtester on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:42PM (#31759210)
The good thing about money printed through QE, is that it can be easily burned through QT. Which is exactly what is being done, now.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by heartbreak on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:39PM (#31758298)
No, because they did basically the same thing ~15 years ago without increasing inflation.

Year over year inflation is higher than it’s been in 40 years, and they weren’t printing money then either.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by solaxun on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @08:29PM (#31761182)
15 years ago was a different animal because the money largely stayed in the banking sector, as excess reserves. This time, a substantial portion of it was deposited directly into consumer's accounts (stimulus checks) - and that money makes it's way into the real economy, pushing prices up.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by coryfklein on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:48PM (#31759278)
No! And in fact most economists consider this to be an extremist fringe theory. A quick counterfactual here is, if the US's inflation is caused by its "money printing" (a term that is used quite loosely here, the vast majority of this money never makes it out to the general economy), then how does one explain the inflation experienced in other nations at the same time where no money was printed?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by copenja on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:03PM (#31759446)
I don't think the stimulus being one of the drivers of inflation is an 'extremist fringe theory' at all. I thought the consensus was it was one of many factors, and the exact contribution of the different factors (stimulus, supply issues, etc) was up for debate.

US inflation is higher than other wealthy nations and the US also did a larger stimulus. So there is evidence that the additional stimulus may have created greater inflation in the US. Scope this paper here: [0]

As far as the consensus for the cause of inflation being unclear among experts, scope this article in left leaning VOX: [1].

[0] https://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economi...

[1] https://www.vox.com/23036340/biden-american-rescue-plan-infl...

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by mike00632 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:34PM (#31760787)
The UK didn't provide stimulus checks yet is experiencing higher inflation than the US.

Canada gave a lot more in stimulus checks (with respect to GDP) than the US but is experiencing less inflation than the US.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by leereeves on Thursday June 16, 2022 @05:54AM (#31764201)
> The UK government has borrowed vast sums of money to fund over £400 billion ($558 billion) in stimulus during the crisis. Total government debt has soared to £2 trillion ($2.8 trillion), or close to 100% of GDP, a level not seen since the 1960s, according to the Office for National Statistics.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/03/economy/budget-2021-uk-stimul...

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by coryfklein on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:08PM (#31759502)
Stimulus checks certainly had an impact on inflation! (A point I argue specifically elsewhere in this thread.)

But not the QE/printing money.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by tmaly on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:57PM (#31759962)
I am seeing other's claim it is the fractional reserve lending and commercial credit.

One other person I saw mentioned that the reserve requirement was lowered to zero in 2020. I don't think that has ever been done before.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by alangibson on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:17PM (#31759591)
Nope. I buy manufactured goods for a couple of businesses and everyone blames the price increases on supply issues.

Also, Google MMT. Printing money is only inflationary of the economy is running near capacity.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by AuryGlenz on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @11:21PM (#31762168)
MMT is far from fact, and I would go as far to say this little issue we're having disproves a good portion of it.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by alangibson on Thursday June 16, 2022 @02:55AM (#31763188)
Which portion?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jonny_eh on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:29PM (#31758154)
That's my fear. In other words, increasing interest rates may not address the cause of the current inflation, so now instead of one problem (inflation) we have two (inflation + recession, aka stagflation).
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by dageshi on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:51PM (#31759328)
Ultimately consumer sentiment has a much bigger effect than just about everything else.

The public are worried about inflation, it's the issue of the day. They will cut back spending until inflation is seen to be tackled which will likely bring about a recession anyway.

Given that, the Fed's hand has been forced, if they do not seem to be aggressively trying to deal with inflation the public will become even more scared and reluctant to spend.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Retric on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:58PM (#31757679)
It keeps supply side bottlenecks from being inflated with cheap money.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ketzo on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:12PM (#31757890)
People aren’t buying gas or groceries with “cheap money.”

Housing, business debt — sure. But there’s a long, convoluted path from cheap debt to inflation of consumer goods.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Retric on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:44PM (#31759837)
The thought process goes: Consumer goods like TV dinners are still based on things further up the supply chain like fertilizer. Normally you get inflation when there is a shortage of say crude oil, but when everything is running into random shortages companies get defensive and start trying to stockpile supplies.

Hypothetical example: If Dell wants another 2 weeks of GPU’s on hand from Random Supplier X, and Random Supplier X wants 2 weeks of chips for their GPU’s on hand from Nvidia, and Nvidia wants 2 weeks of refined silicon on hand from supplier Y, who wants to source 2 weeks of raw materials early that’s 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 8 weeks worth of demand of sand from some mine somewhere out of thin air. Which then dramatically bumps prices for sand and that trickles back down the supply chain.

However, higher interest rates should moderate how much each company in that chain stockpiles, which reduces the demand for sand even if the same number of computers are shipped either way.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ketzo on Thursday June 16, 2022 @03:02AM (#31763239)
Interesting. Thank you for that explanation. That makes a lot of sense.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by symlinkk on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:44PM (#31758389)
Through their actions they’re revealing that all of the excuses thus far were a lie. “Chip shortage”, “wood shortage”, “salmon shortage”, were all fake and overblown, and the real problem was too much money the whole time.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by thfuran on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:19PM (#31758897)
So all the electronics manufacturers and lumber suppliers are just engaging in some vast conspiracy? All the laptops and access points and microcontrollers and such that are hard to buy are just being hidden in hastily constructed wooden castles somewhere?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by babypuncher on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:10PM (#31758779)
You really think that every manufacturer on the planet is conspiring to make people think there is a chip shortage?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ren_engineer on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:17PM (#31757974)
takes guts to do this and it was needed. Problem is that it will expose that most of the US economy is a sham that needed 0% interest rates to even fake growth. our "leaders" have been kicking the can down the road for a long time. US economy used to grow even with very high interest rates, now even a slight increase puts us into a recession.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by queuebert on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:24PM (#31758089)
Is this because of the transition to a service economy?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by lumost on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:42PM (#31758338)
There is a counter view that the US economy experienced a variation of dutch disease by being the world's reserve currency. In this view, being the world's reserve currency forced the US to "export" dollars and "import" goods. Making goods manufactured from USD jurisdictions irrationally non-competitive.

The reason "dutch disease" is a problem for resource producing countries is that manufacturing productivity growth is much stronger compared to commodity production. It's better to be a manufacturing powerhouse than it is to be a commodity powerhouse.

It's entirely plausible that services are the same way, it's better to make things for other people than to do things for other people.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by R0b0t1 on Thursday June 16, 2022 @01:07AM (#31762593)
All progress so far has been related to scientific instruments in some way, shape, or form. We required the industrial revolution to get to where we are because our bodies can't do it.

So, yeah, anything but an industrial, or post-industrial computer driven line, is setting your country up for long term failure. There is lots of societal enrichment that comes not just from the direct production of these things and their sale but also from how they facilitate the ad-hoc understanding of reality.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by treis on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:54PM (#31758535)
I think it's harder to distill qualitative improvement into a GDP number.

Take TV for example. Today you can watch Squid Games on your 65" 4k TV. 30 years ago you got to watch whatever was on cable on your 27" CRT. But where does that improvement get captured? We don't manufacture more TVs. In fact, we make fewer. We don't spend more money on Netflix than Cable. We actually spend less.

There's a lot of things like that where the quality has improved but that's hard to put an actual GDP number on.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by imachine1980_ on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:33PM (#31758217)
I thinks most becouse real growth only happens in Asian countries last decades, and usa and europe companies fake growth by overlabredge debt becouse of the lower inters rate, not productivity
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by treis on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:06PM (#31758730)
Oh come on. Asia didn't invent the iPhone. They're not leading the self driving car race. The internet runs on AWS/Azure/GCloud not any Asian provider.

Asia is making incremental improvements on products invented in the West. They're not the ones inventing classes of devices or breaking new ground.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ren_engineer on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:49PM (#31759883)
>Asia didn't invent the iPhone

They didn't invent it, but they make probably 90% of the hardware components

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by kthejoker2 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @06:34PM (#31760290)
"make", but who owns the patents
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ahi on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:30PM (#31758174)
Financialization. Damn near everything is actually a bank these days.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ren_engineer on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:34PM (#31758235)
and even more so the fact that 2008 resulted in no real punishment of this system like a real free market should have caused. The response to 2008 will be seen as a historic gaffe
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by JasserInicide on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:24PM (#31758954)
The response to 2008 was Trump.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by danaris on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:38PM (#31759788)
I strongly suspect it is related to (if not entirely caused by) the very wealthy taking nearly all the gains due to productivity over the last ~40 years.

We've stopped reinvesting our profits, essentially.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by nlittlepoole on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:33PM (#31758213)
I see it as a combination of demographics (less millennials than boomers to drive consumption) and a lack of investment 20 to 30 years ago into next generation infrastructure and institutions (energy, transport, healthcare, education, etc) that would have given us more productivity growth outside of software and the internet.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by imtringued on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:33PM (#31759088)
Why do people assume that an economy will grow forever. If that were the case, how come the Roman empire failed to conquer the galaxy? 3% over 2000 years is a lot of growth, a lot, I can't stress how unimaginably large that amount of growth is.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by sumy23 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:43PM (#31759228)
People assume the economy will grow forever because they don't want the future to look like feudal Europe where economic stagnation led to a millennium of toil and suffering.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by susanasj on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:24PM (#31758100)
I don't think it's that simple. Lower middle class and poor people have debt, and inflation is good for making debt less valuable in real dollars. Pensioners, maybe, but social security is indexed to inflation if I'm not mistaken? I wouldn't be surprised if many public and private pensions are as well.

This is much more a move in favor of the rich that are owed money by the poor imo.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ljhsiung on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:43PM (#31758365)
The concept of "inflating debt away" is an assumption that wages match inflation while debt stays static. This is a fair assumption in low inflation times, but is showing some cracks these days.

One might then ask, do higher-class wages match/exceed inflation more than lower-class wages? This is debatable. But here's some interesting data from the Atlanta FED, where you can track wages by quintile, education, "skill", hourly vs. non-hourly, etc. Make your own conclusions.

[1] https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by atweiden on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:50PM (#31759893)
> The concept of "inflating debt away" is an assumption that wages match inflation while debt stays static

It also myopically focuses on household debt. But household debt is significantly lower than either corporate debt or government debt [1].

The biggest debtors benefit the most from inflation — quantitatively speaking, the debts of ordinary people aren’t very big.

[1]: https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/McKinsey/Industries/Financi...

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by susanasj on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:49PM (#31759286)
yes this this a good point, and also a useful chart for contexualizing this move.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by thatjoeoverthr on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:36PM (#31758256)
They have debt, but they also have work contracts with out of date wages. But even in our sector, with the leverage that we as programmers have, companies don’t bother to match inflation. You have to make some risky or uncomfortable move to renegotiate your wage or find a new job. For many people it can be worse. So, everyone is under additional financial stress.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by imtringued on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:34PM (#31759103)
Inflation forces people to seek new jobs every few years. That is not necessarily a bad thing. The alternative is to have your boss decide for you when he wants to fire you.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by atweiden on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:28PM (#31759685)
> The alternative is to have your boss decide for you when he wants to fire you

Just for fun, I thought I’d do the math on deflationary economics:

    #!/usr/bin/env raku
    use v6;

    multi sub deflate($n, $r, $y)
    {
        my $m = $n;
        loop (my $i = 0; $i < $y; $i++)
        {
            $m = deflate($m, $r);
        }
        $m;
    }

    multi sub deflate($n, $r)
    {
        $n * (1 + $r);
    }

    sub MAIN(:$rate = 0.0225, :$years = 10)
    {
        my $purchasing-power = 1;
        my $deflate = deflate($purchasing-power, $rate, $years);
        my $output = qq:to/EOF/.trim;
        After $years years of deflation at a rate of {$rate * 100}% per year,
        purchasing power is {$deflate * 100}% of what it was initially.
        EOF
        $output.say;
    }
Without inflation, your personal wealth would grow by the average inflation rate target plus GDP growth, compounding each year.

Assuming an average inflation rate target of 2% per year (per the Fed) and an average GDP growth rate of 0.25% per year, your real purchasing power would grow by about 25% per decade.

Under this scenario, you could mimic a universal basic income of $1000 per month upon saving a total of $480,307.

Bonus: your monthly “UBI” could never be shut off by your government.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by lizmat on Thursday June 16, 2022 @04:56AM (#31763846)
Cool, but I couldn't resist rakufying your "deflate" subroutine:

    sub deflate($power is copy, $rate, $years) {
        $power *= 1 + $rate for ^$years;
        $power * 100
    }
    sub MAIN(:$rate = 0.0225, :$years = 10)
    {
        print qq:to/EOF/;
        After $years years of deflation at a rate of {$rate * 100}% per year,
        purchasing power is &deflate(1,$rate,$years)% of what it was initially.
        EOF
    }
Which I think reads quite a bit better :-)
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by atweiden on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:28AM (#31764398)
lizmat++

The innumerable dark-seeming corners of the language is part of what makes Raku so very, distinctly “Perl”. Little traits and single character sigils that change everything. I find the black magic of Perl моѕt all∪ring ∮.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by kamaal on Thursday June 16, 2022 @12:28AM (#31762440)
Wow! Nice to see Perl 6 in use these days!
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by lizmat on Thursday June 16, 2022 @04:57AM (#31763850)
Well, that's be Raku nowadays! #rakulang https://raku.org :-)
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by R0b0t1 on Thursday June 16, 2022 @01:10AM (#31762609)
Same, very surprising. I was tracking the project for a while with great interest but they lost a lot of things that made Perl actually good at its niche. I'm amazed they made Perl look worse.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by thatjoeoverthr on Thursday June 16, 2022 @07:23AM (#31764720)
Nobody is talking about typical inflation. I just found a new job with a significant increase in pay and the improvement has nearly completely evaporated in months. I am nearly open to another move. With adequate inflation, your pay is wrong in weeks or days. But surely you know all this?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by hypersoar on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:04PM (#31759460)
Everywhere I look I see the unexamined assumption that inflation is necessarily bad for everyone. I haven't be enable to find a straight answer on who it actually benefits and who it hurts in the long run. I've found economics studies arguing contradictory conclusions. Wages, costs, debt, cash, stocks, and rent all react differently, and your experience of inflation depends hugely on what balance of these things you have.

Inflation and responses to it affect the distribution of wealth. When I hear an automatic response from "responsible" policymakers explain that some sacrifices will be needed to tame it (mostly not by them, of course), then I strongly suspect that we're headed for yet more accumulation of wealth at the top.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by coryfklein on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:52PM (#31759334)
> This is much more a move in favor of the rich that are owed money by the poor imo.

Inflation affects the poor much more than it does the rich, which is why it's considered a "regressive tax". The Fed making a historically large rate hike is a direct attempt at fighting inflation, preferentially so over preventing a recession.

And since we're already very near to full employment, the risk that inflation poses to the poor is greater than that of unemployement, hence why it is better for the poor that inflation is brought in check even at the risk of recession.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jessermeyer on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:29PM (#31758155)
This is a double edged sword, naturally. Old debt becomes cheaper in equal measure to more expensive new debt.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by susanasj on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:31PM (#31758196)
yes I don't think it's the case that inflation doesn't hurt the lower half of earners at all, but this entire post is filled with people assuming that inflation hurts poor people the most. I don't know where that assumption comes from but it doesn't make sense to me.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jessermeyer on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:14PM (#31758823)
Someone who could just manage to feed their family on a paycheck-to-paycheck salary before now cannot. That hurts in a way that is .. difficult to compare to when your belly is always full.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by calvinmorrison on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:43PM (#31758359)
The mistake is that, most poor peoples largest expense is housing, and most poor people rent. Those who own have mortgages. Sure their $30K student loans (already on income based repayments) may benefit from inflation, but housing prices certainly not.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by kobalsky on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:48PM (#31758462)
saying that inflation is good for people that have debt is like saying that cancer is good for people that need to lose weight.

inflation is a monster that destroys the low and middle class. the rich and powerful have tools to profit and dance around it.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by nostromo on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:35PM (#31757285)
A key driver to inflation is that wages for lower-income workers was finally starting to rise.

Tanking the economy will hurt these people the most. But yes, inflation would flatten.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jcadam on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:45PM (#31757455)
Still waiting for inflation to hit my effing salary.

I know it won't, because we're entering stagflation territory and unemployment is going to go up. COVID was a massive wealth transfer from the lower and (esp) middle class to the oligarchs.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by johnbellone on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:14PM (#31757934)
I am hiring, and you look like a perfect fit for my team. Send me a message.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by bpodgursky on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:06PM (#31757802)
Have you asked for a raise?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Supermancho on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:14PM (#31757931)
People at my company have, in all-hands meetings. Is the company going to raise our salaries to compensate from the widely acknowledged inflation that's going on, given the company nets billions a year? No comment.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by willcipriano on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:27PM (#31758130)
Stop thinking of yourself as a employee and start thinking yourself as a services vendor. They aren't going to raise your rates of their own accord, you need to go out and generate leads for that to happen.

In a high inflation environment you may find yourself in a position where you have to shift more resources to sales rather than operations. Your current situation with it's pre-inflation salary might just not meet your business goals. Just like they may choose to spend additional income from inflation adjustments on things other than your salary, you can choose how much time you devote to things that are important to you depending on how they reward you.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by danaris on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:55PM (#31759945)
Fuck that.

Stop thinking of yourself as an individual employee and start thinking of yourself as a member of a union. Then actually form that union.

You don't get across-the-board raises by "generating leads". You get them by collectively bargaining.

And I reject entirely the notion that one should be only looking out for one's own gain.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by willcipriano on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @06:19PM (#31760149)
I went from washing dishes to six figures my way. Has your way done well for you thus far?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by 29083011397778 on Friday June 17, 2022 @02:55AM (#31774918)
Moving to a union environment has left me working fewer hours, getting better benefits, and more than doubling my salary. I'm glad things worked out for you [presumably in what is currently one of the hottest occupations], but a union has been a boon to my total compensation.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by danaris on Thursday June 16, 2022 @07:50AM (#31764893)
The whole point is this isn't about you. This is about all of us.

We live in a society, and we damn well need to start acting like it again, rather than the proverbial crabs in a bucket, desperately stepping on each other to try to get ourselves higher.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by willcipriano on Thursday June 16, 2022 @08:48AM (#31765443)
What union are you in?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Nemi on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:25PM (#31758106)
Companies rarely increase wages of existing employees commensurate with inflation. You get the appropriate inflation-adjusted increase only when you switch jobs. It is the one bit of leverage you have as an employee - I would suggest using it. Complaining to management feels good but gets you nowhere.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by deathanatos on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:50PM (#31758493)
They used to. Some do, I hear.

My parent made a living working for the same employer. My SO's parent made a living working for the same employer. Somehow, not canning the entire staff every two years worked for their generation.

Meanwhile, I work for tech companies where hardly anyone knows anything because nobody has any experience because the entire workforce has to turn over every two years just to try to recoup what inflation has devalued their salary to?

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jcadam on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:52PM (#31758514)
You direct supervisor likely will even sympathize, but these decisions are made in most companies by people who don't even know your name.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by bpodgursky on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:25PM (#31758111)
Companies aren't going to do sweeping COL raises voluntarily. You should directly ask your manager, they most likely have the flexibility to make it happen.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by pojzon on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:54PM (#31758546)
Rehire for the same position.

Hiring budget is 3x bigger than rises budget.

Dont ask me whose retarded idea is that.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Phrenzy on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:51PM (#31759914)
It was Mark's idea.

Who's Mark?

Oh, he worked here three years ago.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jcadam on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:35PM (#31758247)
The company I work for is directly (negatively) impacted by rising rates, so I don't expect they'd be amenable to granting raises at the moment.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by dlp211 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:30PM (#31758168)
> because we're entering stagflation territory and unemployment is going to go up

Citation needed. Unemployment is at 3.6% and the population on UE insurance is below 1%, and we are adding 400k+ jobs/mo.

This of course can change, but as of right now, UE is not going up.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by mullingitover on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:09PM (#31757847)
...and the lower classes hold a lot of debt, which under high inflation would start to vaporize. It would effectively transfer a lot of wealth from those who hold a lot of cash to those who don't.

Can't have that.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by googlryas on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:24PM (#31758091)
The lower classes hold a lot of debt? Can you source that? I would assume middle/upper class would hold most debt.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by hermitdev on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:48PM (#31758456)
Middle/upper class hold a higher nominal value. Lower class tends to hold a higher debt level to their income, and it tends to be in high interest revolvers such as credit cards which are almost impossible to pay off if all you can afford is to make the bare minimum monthly payment.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by mullingitover on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:38PM (#31758284)
The upper/middle classes hold more debt overall, but it's debt that's much easier to shed - mortgages. You can just walk away from that mortgage at any time. The lower classes are saddled with medical debt, credit card debt, and student loans which aren't dischargeable in bankruptcy.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by googlryas on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:47PM (#31758443)
The middle class is the largest holder of student loan debt.

Poor people either don't go to college, or go to a cheap community college, or get scholarships/financial aid.

Very rich families just pay for college without taking out student loans.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/10/09/who-owes-...

> The highest-income 40 percent of households (those with incomes above $74,000) owe almost 60 percent of the outstanding education debt and make almost three-quarters of the payments. The lowest-income 40 percent of households hold just under 20 percent of the outstanding debt and make only 10 percent of the payments.

Also, medical and credit card debt can generally be discharged in bankruptcy. Student loan debt can't, but consider this from the same link:

> What may be more surprising, however, is the difference in payment burdens. A growing share of borrowers participate in income-driven repayment (IDR) plans, which do not require any payments from those whose incomes are too low and limit payments to an affordable share of income for others. And some borrowers are in forbearance or deferment because of financial hardships. As a result, out-of-pocket loan payments are concentrated among high-income households; few low-income households enrolled in IDR are required to make payments.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by moneywoes on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:34PM (#31758230)
Exactly, who have the biggest mortgages?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by shagie on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:57PM (#31758596)
Part of the picture - though this is by geography - https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/household...

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/household... for a higher level set of charts.

If you look at it by state, you can draw a north south line from the western boundary of Texas to the western boundary of North Dakota. West of that line is debt; east of that line (until you hit the coast) its better.

Running it from 1999 to present is also kind of interesting.

The St. Louis Fed has a report on Income Distribution, Household Debt, and Aggregate Demand: A Critical Assessment1 https://www.stlouisfed.org/-/media/project/frbstl/stlouisfed... - it is not light reading.

From part of the summary (on page 29):

> With respect to the long-term rise in household debt: This is a monetary phe- nomenon. Fundamentally, it is the result of higher interest rates and lower real income growth and inflation. On the other side of the equation, increasing income inequality has simply led to an increase in private consumption inequality. To the extent that consumption demand has been stronger than would be predicted by a Keynesian story of consumption propensities declining with income, the ex- planations appear to be a mix of increased luxury consumption by high-income households and and increased social spending classified as household consumption in the national accounts. Income inequality may indeed have contributed to weaker aggregate demand. But so may a number of other factors affecting desired consump- tion and investment, including: the progressive satiation of consumption demand; slowing population growth; increasing monopoly power; the shift from manufac- turing to less capital-intensive services; changes in the fraction of profits retained in the business sector; the trade deficit; and increased longevity of capital goods. The possible influences of all these factors, along with countervailing forces tending to raise aggregate demand, need to be investigated systematically we should not immediately focus on one possible story to the exclusion of the others.

Page 28 appears to have the line item you're after:

> Household debt is concentrated near the top of the income distribution; very little is owed by lower-income households.

Another chunk of data to work from: https://www.debt.org/faqs/americans-in-debt/demographics/

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by cjbgkagh on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:49PM (#31757509)
I don’t know anyone who has had their salaries keep pace with inflation. And I presume the lack of pay rises is the cause for all the industrial action I keep hearing about.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by queuebert on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:25PM (#31758107)
CEO pay has more than tracked inflation.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by FabHK on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:24PM (#31758095)
Real wages had been rising in the decade bevor COVID hit:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by cjbgkagh on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:31PM (#31758194)
I’m talking post COVID when inflation started to kick in.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by twblalock on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:42PM (#31757403)
I think every possible "tanking the economy" scenario always hurts the poor the most.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by tbihl on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:53PM (#31757599)
That's a straightforward, non-cynical thing to say just like 'what comes up must come down.' People don't seem to think so.

Anyone with $1,000 has the resources to stop any (or several) of a large number of unfortunate circumstances that they may encounter. $10,000 even more so. $100,000 should be years of runway along the same lines. So it makes sense that when everyone is riding an economy downward, the people with the least cushion get hurt the worst.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by xwdv on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:14PM (#31757930)
Frankly the poor are always going to get hurt no matter what you do. Being poor isn’t a position of strength in the first place. When you’re living hand to mouth you are very sensitive to any changes in the environment.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by imtringued on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:38PM (#31759157)
I think unemployment hurts the poor the most because bosses fire the least productive people (untrained workers), even when those people spend a bigger portion of their salary on consumption and thereby generate demand for products to sell. A lot of the more "productive" people already have what they want and spend their money on acquiring capital which is kind of pointless if nobody is there to buy your products.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by francisofascii on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:52PM (#31757574)
What good is a higher wage if inflation is worse.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ProfessorLayton on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:43PM (#31758353)
Unfortunately it really depends on which side of inflation one is in. Wage increases still help in an inflationary environment if one has existing debt (i.e. a mortgage).

Furthermore, a lot of inflation is in housing itself, so if one already is a homeowner, then a significant amount of inflation is bypassed.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ipaddr on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:38PM (#31758279)
Reduces preexisting debt
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Someone1234 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:55PM (#31757630)
Inflation is largely being driven by import problems and oil prices, therefore, it is unclear if a recession is a golden key to lower inflation. Keep in mind that oil is internationally expensive, and even a reduction in the US may not bring down prices significantly.

So we could see recession AND inflation at the same time. Then tack on higher interest rates, and everything goes squish.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by toomuchtodo on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:56PM (#31757651)
The Fed can only manage monetary policy. If Congress wants to fix the petroleum energy crisis with policy, it has the tools to do so.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Aloha on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:58PM (#31757675)
High gas prices are mostly a function of insufficient refining capacity, short of the government building more, I dont see a policy fix here. The market is responding to the probability of an electric future.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by toomuchtodo on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:00PM (#31757701)
Mandate work from home capability for anyone who can work from home; prioritize oil consumption for non discretionary use cases where you have no choice but to move atoms vs bits. Agree with your thesis otherwise, no way to juice output in the short term, only shims until electrification ramps faster (which, I argue, should carry the same gravity and speed as a wartime effort, but alas I am not a politician).

Edit: Normally I’d suggest a carbon tax and rebate to low income folks, but that would directly work against Fed FFR increasing efforts and Congress is so pathetic as to not be able to get it done.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Aloha on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:35PM (#31758236)
Mind you, I think the electric future s 15-30 years away, not 8-15 - but the lifetime of a refinery is 40-50 years. Thats the issue, it wont pay for itself on a conventional amortization schedule.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by toomuchtodo on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:41PM (#31758324)
Disagree. We’re already past peak combustion vehicle sales per Bloomberg NEF, and the rate of EV sales will only increase based on operating costs versus combustion vehicles.

Lots of folks interested in EVs when fuel is $5-6/gallon, which will remain for some time. Gotta scale up faster, build the machine that builds the machine and whatnot.

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/new-analysis-suggests-we-have-p...

https://about.bnef.com/blog/electric-vehicle-sales-set-to-ri...

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by meragrin_ on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:16PM (#31760659)
Disagree. Those combustion vehicles are sticking around longer. Getting 15+ years out of a combustion vehicle is a piece of cake. They also have to be replaced. There is not going to be any where enough production capacity to replace all of those for a while. The early EVs will have shorter lives for one reason or another so the used market for those will suck for at least a decade. There is also going to be grid issues which will either out right prevent electric vehicle adoption or slow it. Sure, you might get to the point where few new vehicles are combustion in say 10 years, but the used market will be quite a different story.

Don't get me wrong. I WANT an EV, but there isn't one out there I would buy. No way am I getting a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd year EV. I'm not going to be a beta tester. No way am I getting an EV with just touch screens. No way am I getting an EV which is a pain to maintain or repair.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Aloha on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:29PM (#31759029)
I think you're underestimating the long tail, the average age of a vehicle is 12.2 years old, we're probably 15-20 years from where 50% of vehicles on the road are electric. I'm 39, and I do not see a point in my expected lifetime (around another 35 years) where gasoline and diesel fuel will not be common and available.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by bombcar on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:56PM (#31759372)
Unleaded gas was introduced in the 1970s in the US - and leaded gas was still made and sold until the 1990s. And it's still available if you know where to look in every city in the US as 100LL Avgas, or with additives.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Aloha on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:12PM (#31759546)
I'm expecting retail gas stations to be common for the next 20-40 years, with some density reduction towards the middle of that period is what I'm saying more or less.

To say leaded fuel is still available is a little bit of a misnomer, in the states anyhow, its not legally available as a road fuel, nor is a TEL additive - there are lead substitutes, but they're potassium I think, largely to prevent valve seat wear.

As far as I know, low octane unleaded fuel has always been available, you could always get a 'regular' grade gas without TEL, and premium fuel was marketed as with TEL.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by bombcar on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:19PM (#31759603)
Yeah, was just showing that it takes time for things to change, even given that most cars sold in the 70s worked fine on unleaded, there were still leaded cars out there.

And cars didn't last nearly as long as they did before.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by vel0city on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:43PM (#31758364)
> I think the electric future s 15-30 years away, not 8-15

This definitely varies on the definition of "the electric future" is. Are we in the electric future when the number of total passenger miles driven increases or stays the same while the gallons of gas combusted for passenger car travel decreases? Is it when >50% of cars on the road are electric? 100% of passenger cars?

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Aloha on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:29PM (#31759040)
50% of the cars on the road, is the metric I use, I'm 39, and I do not see a point in my expected lifetime (around another 35 years) where gasoline and diesel fuel will not be common and available.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by shadowpho on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:17PM (#31758877)
>Mandate work from home capability for anyone who can work from home;

Oh yeah that'll get past congress. I'm sure one of our parties won't have an aneurism over this idea :)

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Someone1234 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @06:10PM (#31760077)
The federal government is one of the largest employers in the country, if the President signed an executive order moving most jobs that could be done remotely to remote, it would have a positive impact on oil demand.

That could happen tomorrow. It could be challenged in court, but the internal running of federal departments hasn't traditionally been successfully been upheld unless they have some novel legal theory as to why this is unconstitutional.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by meragrin_ on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:53PM (#31758533)
> I dont see a policy fix here.

Relax regulations which prevent companies from building new or expanding plants?

> The market is responding to the probability of an electric future.

The "electric future" is so far out there. The fuel would likely just be exported. Also, fuel is not the only thing produced at refineries.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by babypuncher on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:17PM (#31758868)
Where is all this new demand for gasoline coming from? I know a lot of people are back to in-person work and school, but a substantial number of people are now full or part-time WFH where they weren't before 2020. On top of that we've "unexpectedly" lost over a million people in that same time frame. Shouldn't demand for gasoline be lower than it was before the pandemic?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by bombcar on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:57PM (#31759377)
The million lost weren't big gas users, I suspect.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by babypuncher on Friday June 17, 2022 @12:14PM (#31780365)
And those of us left are apparently filling our swimming pools with it
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by trgn on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:52PM (#31759331)
It does, and it has:

- reduce speed limits, like in the 70s. Actually enforce with speed cameras everywhere (bonus, fewer people will die). - mpg mandates for new vehicles, like Obama, but now also include light trucks. (bonus, fewer people will die).

The fact that they are not even being discussed by policymakers in this context of high gas prices tells you that driving fast with large vehicles is fetishized.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by omegaworks on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:09PM (#31757845)
It's true that economic policy is structured such that Congress has effective control over the non-monetary levers.

The problem is that Congress is functionally ineffective at responding to popular demand, intentionally. The Senate is structurally allowed to act anti-democratically against the will of the populace: two representatives for fifty arbitrarily defined land areas are allowed to override proportionally elected representatives, and the filibuster allows only a third of them to block any action.

We are at a political impasse. Things will get worse because it does not look good to the minority party for the majority party to enact real economic wins.

If only the majority party were willing to wrestle a tiny speck of that anti-democratic power away from the Senate by overriding extreme rules like the filibuster...

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by nobody9999 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:28PM (#31758140)
>If only the majority party were willing to wrestle a tiny speck of that anti-democratic power away from the Senate by overriding extreme rules like the filibuster...

Or reverting back (pre-1970s) to the "Talking Filibuster,"[0] where you could only stop a vote by continuing to "debate" on the floor of the Senate.

That won't solve the problem, but it would be a step in the right direction: Talk until you can't and in the meantime, try to negotiate with the majority.

[0] https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/149663

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by omegaworks on Thursday June 16, 2022 @03:25PM (#31769910)
We need to abolish the Senate or at least make it as irrelevant as the House of Lords.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by babypuncher on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:36PM (#31759126)
Bring back the requirement that a filibusting senator speak one the floor indefinitely to prevent a majority vote from happening.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by mmarq on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:35PM (#31758238)
A huge component of American and British inflation is endogenous (stimulus checks, loose monetary policy, etc…). Both the central bank and the government can and should do something about it.

Core inflation in the UK is 6.2%, in the US is 6%, more than half the inflation rate. This is not the same in countries more affected by the energy shock, such as the eurozone.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by cjbgkagh on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:35PM (#31757280)
I just wish it was done earlier and more cheaply during otherwise good times.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by rurp on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:20PM (#31758026)
Exactly, the best time to raise rates was 6 years ago when the economy was humming along well. Instead the fed kept them too low creating huge bubbles, which it's now in the process of popping. These next few years are going to be a lot rougher than they needed to be.

This isn't just hindsight bias either. Plenty of people have been warning about exactly this problem for years.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by kgwgk on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:39PM (#31758299)
They DID raise rates 6 years ago: from 0% in 2015 to 2.45% in 2019. It should have been done much earlier. And there was no need to push equity markets 50% up from pre-pandemic levels. That was the time for a soft-landing.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by hgomersall on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:23PM (#31758952)
Why should they have raised interest rates? Standard economic dogma has it that below target inflation like the last 15 years needed low interest rates to get it back up. Or could it be that standard economic dogma is a steaming pile of horse shit?
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by rurp on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @06:43PM (#31760361)
Sure inflation was low for buying food or milk or whatever, but was much higher than 2% in some massive areas of the economy, like stocks and housing. Keeping rates so low created huge pressure to invest in high risk speculative assets. Crypto is basically the poster child for how absurd things have been in recent years.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by tbihl on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:49PM (#31757527)
I think you would need monarchy (or something more tyrannical) to get that. Democracies seem reliably short-sighted. The personal responsibility of taking on debt is so thoroughly attenuated in a democracy that piling on ($90k per citizen and counting, in the US) debt is the expedient thing to do, and it's seemingly impossible to overcome the electoral price paid for trying to reject that expedient option.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by pfisherman on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:10PM (#31757866)
We had someone who was attempting something like tyrannical rule between 2016 - 2020 when the economy was going gangbusters. In his infinite wisdom he passed a ginormous tax cut, and then publicly lambasted the fed chair for modestly raising interest rates.

Not that administration is solely to blame for our predicament. The failure goes back even before the previous administration who had a mandate to make radical changes after the 2008 election cycle, and instead continued business as usual.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jaywalk on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:27PM (#31758134)
Wow, he passed a ginormous tax cut all on his own? Without the House and Senate both passing it first and sending it to him to sign?? That's extremely tyrannical! I can't believe I never heard about this, do you have any more info I can look at???
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by matthewdgreen on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:58PM (#31758614)
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jaywalk on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:05PM (#31758712)
Yeah, that was my point.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by towaway15463 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:00PM (#31757705)
You should pay more attention. They planned to start hiking rates in ‘21 when inflation broke 2% but in their infinite wisdom they deemed it “transitory” and kept rates low and now look where we are.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by FabHK on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:26PM (#31758122)
To be fair, there was no war in 2021 (involving huge oil/gas/wheat exporters).
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:02PM (#31758673)
Covid and the issues that caused should have been that long awaited wake up call to slowly ramp the money printer down.

Instead, they ramped it up and now we're here. The war is not the main cause of this, but was the monkey wrench thrown in the money printer, bringing down this house of cards.

This issue was years in the making, but they were just kicking the can down the road hoping the bubble wouldn't burst on their watch.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by tbihl on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:34PM (#31758234)
I think you're assuming some backstory to my comment that's not there.

But, for what it's worth, the rate hikes needed to start years before that, probably between 2013 and 2015. 2010-2020 was the window to make up for big spending.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by cjbgkagh on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:53PM (#31757596)
AFAIK it was how Keynesian economics was supposed to work. Also AFAIK the only country that did intentionally tighten at the top always Israel as they were worried that an economic crisis would leave them vulnerable to attack from their neighbors *

* source is from a bar talk with an economist, I didn’t do my own research here…

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by tbihl on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:48PM (#31758445)
Long-term prudence is how every system is supposed to work, but motive can't be considered in a system as diffuse as a government of 330million people. The US is Keynesian in bad times, and a giant tax cut celebration in the good times.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by idlehand on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:03PM (#31757759)
Unlike socialism, capitalism actually seems to fare better when under a siege mentality. The 50s to 70s was a period of strong growth and right-wing support for worker-friendly policies which made the lives of the ordinary person better, not least because of fear that poor working class conditions would lead to communist uprisings in Western Europe.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by otikik on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:49PM (#31759293)
It does sound like socialism helped then, albeit indirectly.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by manfre on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:54PM (#31757610)
The US effectively had that with the executive and legislative acting the way they did the years before COVID.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by tbihl on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:51PM (#31758509)
No monarch could ever have a sufficiently split personality to even mimic all the different ways things get pulled in a government where hundreds of people battle to make decisions. The US had (and has) no coherent vision but operates on a scale where that is not a viable option.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Ticklee on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:10PM (#31757863)
I think you could argue the same took place during COVID, what with mask mandates, essentially forced vaccinations and businesses being forced closed.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by RspecMAuthortah on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:31PM (#31759068)
> You can argue either side to this, and make a good case.

Here is an argument. Fed is a thief. First it recklessly bailed out all the toxic banks and derivatives in 2008, then kept the interest rates low for too long propping up the asset prices, then basically printed money as if there is no tomorrow, and then the moment middle class started to see wage growth they gave the asset owning class opportunity exit with big margin as they retired and then started raising the rates. End the Fed.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by idlehand on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:59PM (#31757697)
Every central bank in the world is caught between a rock and a hard place. A recession would be bad for the long-term economy, likely reducing aggregate productivity. But if they don't manage to get inflation under control, we'll see a wage/price spiral as high inflation expectations become entrenched among companies and workers.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by mmarq on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:29PM (#31758148)
The Fed missed the chance to act quickly in November/December and now it has to show commitment to bring inflation down before it spirals out of control. In the US and the UK, the current burst in inflation is more endogenous than it is in the eurozone (see core inflation), so it can and should be put under control by the central bank and by the government, the former with interest rates and the latter cutting stimulus checks and the like.

We’ll see what the BoE and the UK government do, but I’m not an optimist. I don’t see Johnson stop using public money to directly buy votes and I’m very doubtful of the competence of a central banker that goes on TV asking people to not demand pay rises.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by hristov on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:45PM (#31758396)
Actually higher inflation may help the poor and the middle class. If the inflation is caused by higher wages it is of great advantage of the poor and middle class. As well as a lot of the upper class (i.e., those of them that work for a living).

The present inflation is a bit of a mixed bag. It is partially caused by higher wages, but it is mostly caused by high oil prices, disturbances in grain and fertilizer sales caused by the war in ukraine and various covid related supply chain screwups.

I think the solution is to continue to address the things that can be addressed, like the covid supply chain screwups, low refining capacity, etc. Triggering a recession on purpose is really dumb.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by xxpor on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:50PM (#31757533)
I'm sure the lower middle class people who lose their job will appreciate it.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by SketchySeaBeast on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:53PM (#31757586)
What's the good play here? Cause a recession or price those lower middle class out of being able to afford the cost of living? Typically they aren't the ones with the best negotiating power.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by xxpor on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:03PM (#31757767)
Raising taxes to take money out of the system. With that you have control over who the pain hits.

Some specific areas that are getting hit hard like housing have specific problems that need to be fixed, like zoning.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by salawat on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:51PM (#31758506)
Cost of taxes just gets passed on to the consumer.

Or as Traders say...

>It's priced in.

Tax does not do anything to extract money in the end from anyone but the consumer; or at least not any tax that I've bothered to actually sit down and trace in the rare accounting mood.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jcalvinowens on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @06:04PM (#31760023)
> Cost of taxes just gets passed on to the consumer

> It's priced in.

That's just not true. It can only be true if you assume all sellers collude not to lower prices.

In a free market, one seller might eat the tax, undercut the rest, and net more money at a lower profit margin by attracting business from competitors. That risk generally prevents taxes from being fully priced in.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by salawat on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @09:42PM (#31761668)
Today I charge $5 to sell a widget.

$4 to make the thing, get it to you, and pay all taxes inherent to all the jurisdictions involved in producing and selling the thing to you. Let's even assume I'm the most amazing business man, and I've trimmed the process down to the absolute minimum possible cost per unit by nailing every optimization under the sun.

and $1 profit to come out ahead.

Now. That $1 profit is totally open to get undercut by a competitor.

We've pinned that $4 as the minimum possible cost to make that widget based on the laws of physics and business. Even if my competitors are all as amazing as me, they too hit $4 spend to produce 1 widget.

The next day, a tax is imposed. Not on the consumer, but on the businesses; this increases the floor cost per widget produced from $4 to $4.50 cents.

I priced things at $5 a widget. I'm still in the black with no adjustment. I have two choices: increase cost to keep making the same relative profit (if the market will bear it) in terms of cash, or convert some of that cash profit to "Goodwill" by basically taking a haircut and eating the tax. This could get me brand recognition or attract a certain type of investor.

My competitor, Sudden But Inevitable Undercut Inc. Priced their widget at $4.50 previously only pocketing 50 cents.

Unfortunately, they have no wiggle room any further. They drop out of the market, as to them the thought of increasing the price is unthinkable.

Any other competitors are left with the same choice as I had:

A) increase price to get same relative profit B) cash in on Goodwill

But as more companies choose B, the value of B plummets. No one cares if you ate the tax if everyone does it, and in fact not doing it when everyone else does attracts an equally large set of particularly minded investors

The consumer still ends up ultimately eating it because supply just shrunk, demand stayed the same, (price goes up) because a supplier was just priced out of the market in a poof of non-profitability.

BUT! The ones who dropped out liquidated their stuff! Who'll buy it? Probably suppliers still making widgets. Who has the most to throw around? Me, of course. I could grab all those assets to prevent my competitors from being able to utilize them to scale, or to bolster my own production to be able to service more demand! I can do this, because growth can only be bought with money now. I have money now! Yay, greed!

So now, you're left resolving that Goodwill spread across your supplier population. In my experience, there is a far smaller set of Stakeholder value centric companies than Shareholder centric value companies.

Let's say it's 50/50 though, lets assume the market bears my elevated cost for buying the widget without much complaint. What does next quarter look like?

The ones who readjust up for the same relative profit may be able to capture fulfillment for a higher fraction of the finite demand. At first, this may seem advantageous to those who took a haircut, because that essentially turns into a bump in supply, pushing prices down; but as long as the higher priced widget sellers keep improving faster than the competitors that took the haircut, over time they (the less altruistic bunch) may be able to drive more benevolent competitors out of profitability, recapturing their (the more altruistic, but slower growing suppliers) now unprofitably serviced chunk of demand.

Boo! I say as the highest price supplier, I didn't make as much as I wanted in end consumer sales, but hey, wholesale is better than no sale, right? And I can still play the ole M&A card to acquire other suppliers to increase the shadow I cast in terms of effect on price.

If the market doesn't bear the higher cost, it can go the other way of course, and if one makes the dangerous assumption of rational homo economicus, the more benevolent actors may hold out, but they still won't won't grow as fast as their less altruistic competitor, (growth requires cash now, not goodwill).

So say our more altruistic company charges less most of the time, they're still going to have to price in the difference in response to the proportion of increased demand by consumers drawn by their normally lower prices, the max demand they can in house satisfy with their own production, and the elevated cost of sourcing more expensive supply from a less popular supplier due to their higher price to keep customers happy. Their prices are still pegged high, and they are vulnerable vulnerable to shakedowns by their upstream supplier if they want to keep that goodwill flowing.

A final equilibrium is reached only when there is no more room allowed by regulators for M&A until there is a breakthrough or change in the laws and physics of business, to bump that floor price down.

In reality, all businesses make these types of decisions all the time. The hard truth remains though: if you tack on higher costs to produce, there is nothing to stop businesses from passing that cost along. Not passing it along can net some goodwill, but rapidly hits diminishing returns as more companies do it, and hamstrings your growth potential if the population of the type of investor your goodwill piques the interest of ever shifts substantially, and in particular, shrinks. I've met far more pragmatic, profitability driven investors than ideal driven, so I'd wager your idealists are way less common than your "lets make lotsa money" investors.

Cash buys you more throughput. Goodwill may get you more demand, but inability to keep up and fulfill that demand means you're delegating business, and customers to a more costly supplier eventually anyway. Which raises the question, if you can't give everyone the lower price now, why not pass on the cost of that tax, reclaim your profit, possibly innovate, and give it to them later? Or why not have it be your hand on the till? I mean you had good intentions. You're just reacting to the market! You'll make it up to the consumer! Just... Later.

Several years later, you get faced with the same decision again and wonder if now is the time... Rinse, repeat.

Greed, in this sense, subverts the "virtuous" cycle.

But lets get back to iteration 1.

The end consumer though... after the tax is imposed is still paying at least $4.51-$5.50 where yesterday, they were paying $4-$5.

So, no... While I think you can cross your fingers and hope a bunch of people famous for being cutthroatly pragmatic will out of the goodness of their heart eat a tax for you...

I've gotten to the point I've thrown in the towel on that, and assume the traders are right

It's priced in.

And this is why we can't have nice things.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jcalvinowens on Friday June 17, 2022 @12:16PM (#31780400)
The scenario you present is so oddly specific and contrived I don't really know how to respond to it.

The fact that you mention investment potential as a downside of eating the tax is really amusing to me: is it so hard to imagine a sustainable business that actually makes money? Pumping up the numbers to attract investors is not something that matters to a well established profitable business. Half the economy is small businesses, and the owners tend to be a lot more pragmatic than boardrooms.

> While I think you can cross your fingers and hope a bunch of people famous for being cutthroatly pragmatic will out of the goodness of their heart eat a tax for you...

You've completely missed the point. What I'm pointing out is that, sometimes, cutting prices is the cutthroaty pragmatic choice, because undercutting a competitor may net you more total money at a lower profit.

That moderates the effect of taxes, and prevents them from being fully priced in. Even if nobody actually does it, the risk that somebody might affects the market.

Demand for what you do/sell is what fundamentally limits how much money you make, not profit margin. Increasing demand enough can offset decreasing margin.

Arbitrary example: Walmart can absorb a local tax increase which other small local retailers can't because Walmart's tax burden is spread across many tax localities. They get more business and make more money. It isn't goodwill, it is rational.

Just look at tariffs we've seen in the past few years: did all prices instantly jump by the amount of the tariff? Nope.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by malfist on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:17PM (#31757975)
But you can't ask billionaires to pay more!
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by susanasj on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:27PM (#31758135)
I don't see why people think inflation hits the bottom of the wealth distribution the most. If you own your home but make the minimum payments, inflation is good. Your payments stay the same but the dollars are worth less, and hopefully your wages go up (as many people's have been). If you owe student debt, healthcare debt, same thing. Almost every lower middle class person has one of these kinds of debt. Inflation hurts the people that are owed money (banks, corporations, etc).
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by salawat on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:57PM (#31758606)
There is a floor to how much you can make without running into severe adverse effects on survival.

Inflation causes absolute value of the number represented by that floor to increase.

I assure you. There is only one relative group of people local to whom that number teitching makes a big difference.

Hint: If you sort by income descending, they're toward the far end.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by bcassedy on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @08:39PM (#31761241)
Seems negative across the board.

A huge swath of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford a $500 emergency. As inflation increases the cost of goods and services those people have even less wiggle room to handle the unexpected and/or they need to start cutting back on expenses.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by SketchySeaBeast on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:48PM (#31758448)
> and hopefully your wages go up

That's my struggle with this part, and that was my point with the less bargaining power. Everything else you say is true, but I have concerns about this bit. My wage required a job jump to increase and I'm by no means lower middle class.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Consultant32452 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:38PM (#31758283)
Speaking of lower middle class and poor people. Powell recently stated that workers had too much power and were able to demand too much higher wages. He intended to create policy to tip the balance of power away from workers to resolve this. I don't believe the well-being of lower middle class and poor people are a concern of his.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/transcript-fed-chief-powells-po...

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by trgn on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:37PM (#31759143)
Yup. The last few years have also seen some of the highest wage growth in decades, and highest saving rates across the board. All that pent up demand and broadly distributed spending power is fueling inflation now. But, in the balance of things, labor did really well.

It's capital that being severely punished now, with negative returns (on top of inflation), it will take years to recoup losses. Anybody hoping of becoming a rentier (the FIRE crowd, seniors looking to retire come to mind) has seen their plans evaporate the last year.

While the truly rich probably don't care either way, their balance sheets are all shrinking nonetheless.

Low inflation may bring price stability and sanity to the markets, but it will not particularly benefit lower incomes.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by Consultant32452 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @08:36PM (#31761224)
The truly rich scooped up a bunch of cash and cash equivalents while interest rates were low. Now that there's going to be a price crash in places like housing, they will be scooping up assets like mad while Main St. suffers. People were complaining about how many houses BlackRock was buying, just wait till the crash.

This kind of thing really bothers me, and the more I learn about economics the more I understand why public school economics classes are so poor. If people understood this stuff there'd be a revolution.

I think Warren Buffet once said something to the effect of if the average citizen understood how the federal reserve worked there'd be a revolution overnight. I'm sure I got the person or details of the quote wrong, but I'm too lazy to look it up. Regardless, the sentiment stands.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by shadowpho on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:07PM (#31758743)
I would say the inflation hurts middle class significantly more -- they at least have some savings/money.

However, if you are poor you would have more debt\less savings. As such a recession would be worse -- especially as it leads to less jobs and lost jobs.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by marricks on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:23PM (#31758075)
Wages have been riser faster than inflation and triggering a recession will reverse that.

People love to act like they’re helping poor people when in truth they’re just hurting the labor market ie everyone but rich people.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by darth_avocado on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @02:56PM (#31757644)
Here's another perspective to this. An induced recession at a time when most people and businesses are recovering from historic losses that came about in the pandemic, is the worst.

In a recession, spending from the top 10% of the population slows down, which in turn stops the trickle down economics, and hits the lower 90% of the society the hardest. And when that happens after a 2 year long period where they were already hit hard, the effects will be even more long lasting.

[Edit]: Since most of you latched on to the argument that "trickle down economics" doesn't work, I'll clarify. Outside the rhetoric of "Billionaires are hoarding all the money", in a healthy economy, trickle down economics is how most of the businesses work. Every time a person earning six figures goes out buys that extra pair of shoes or goes on that extra vacation or orders in food because they were feeling lazy, it's trickle down economics. It works. When the people with higher purchasing power (I said top 10% for a reason and not top 0.1%) feel the pinch, it has a disproportionate impact on people with less money to spare.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by mbfg on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:03PM (#31757761)
please show where trickle down economics ever worked, anywhere.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by prepend on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:08PM (#31757828)
I mean the US economy in the 20th century seems like a pretty good example, right? It “worked” by having the wealthiest realize most gains but also making the US the most powerful economy in the world and still has a large sized middle class with houses, pensions, 401ks, etc.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by lovich on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:12PM (#31757888)
Funny, I seem to remember a certain president running on trickle down economics that coincided with the decline of worker compensation compared to executive and the shrinking of the middle class, but maybe I have history completely backwards

Edit:also look at the economic system practiced in the United States that led up to the introduction of trickle down economics. That happened in the 80’s and there’s 4/5ths of the 20th century that happened prior to that

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by NotSammyHagar on Thursday June 16, 2022 @12:38PM (#31768087)
It's disingenuous to claim claim that trickle down economics worked when the widespread middle class in the 1950s was buoyed by more government spending, much much higher union membership and high taxes on rich people. The US did have widespread beneficial economic growth after the rest of the world was town down in ww2 and we weren't, but that has ended over time as Reagan and others started claiming trickle down was the way to go. We reduced taxes on the top, theoretically making it easier for rich to spend and induce jobs for the others, but the impact of 1970s to now is worse opportunities. In summary the time that trickle down econ. was supposed to help was the time where the non-rich started to lose their share more and more.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by mbfg on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:47PM (#31813261)
The rich have done astoundingly well yes. The middle class has gone steadily down hill from the 80s.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by deltree7 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:10PM (#31757869)
An iPhone user in rural India surfing the open internet on $1 / month LTE mobile networks is absolutely an example of Trickle down economics working.

Every single of the thousands of innovation that goes into an iPhone was subsidized by rich venture capitalists and rich early adopters who were willing to plonk large sums of money to a 'gadget' that only showed promises of work.

It wasn't because the Indian Government Taxed the Rich and made a mandate that everyone should have an device-in-their-pocket-that-carries-all-the-worlds-information-and-productivity-tools

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by lovich on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:16PM (#31757951)
Were trickle down economic principles followed by American politicians to benefit rural Indians?

I don’t think finding a silver lining in the end results of a process counts as it succeeding.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by NotSammyHagar on Thursday June 16, 2022 @12:40PM (#31768111)
No. You can't claim that good things were somehow examples of trickledown. India didn't create cell phones or LTE technologies, but of course individuals from that country worked at companies making these things. It's just silly to claim arbitrary technology improvements are examples of trickle down econ. For example, lots of technology is created by war time scientific advances, pushed by governments.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by JaimeThompson on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:18PM (#31757997)
>Every single of the thousands of innovation that goes into an iPhone was subsidized by rich venture capitalists and rich early adopters

Don't forget the governments which helped fund the basic research used to make such things, the middle and lower classes that pay more in property taxes so companies can be bribed to build factories, and other such things.

Put another way it's a much more complicated picture than just those two.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by nemo44x on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:30PM (#31758166)
Wealthy people pay almost all the taxes. the top 10% pay 71% of taxes and the top 25% pay 87%. 75% of the country contributes nearly nothing but complaints.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by JaimeThompson on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:08PM (#31758755)
>75% of the country contributes nearly nothing but complaints.

Only if you ignore sales tax, car tax, property taxes, and other such taxes.

The top 10% typically included major corporations but without a source I don't know if the percentage you use does.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by nemo44x on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:38PM (#31759160)
Sales tax, property tax, fees, etc are a rounding error essentially and are local. At a Federal level they are meaningless.

Saying that I'd be all for a Federal sales tax of 20% if we could nearly eliminate income taxes.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by mbfg on Sunday June 19, 2022 @02:28PM (#31801969)
A much higher percentage of what poor people buy is necessities compared to their salaries. They have much less choice as to buy or not. If a rich person were to buy at the rate a poor person does, it would be almost completely on frivolity. Sales taxes, imo, are especially targeted at the poor.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by lovich on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:46PM (#31759267)
Why? That puts more of the tax burden on those with the least
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by darth_avocado on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:32PM (#31759728)
No it doesn't. Those with less to spend also spend less.

Contrary to popular belief, the so called utopias like Sweden, tax the poor at almost comparable rates as the rich.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by lovich on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:37PM (#31760824)
Those who earn less pay less in income tax and we still had to implement a progressive taxation policy because of how much a flat tax percentage hurts those without disposable income compared to the wealthy.

The poor already spend all their money on necessities. If you go to a flat sales tax it will hurt them more than the current progressive regime and favor the wealthy.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by _-david-_ on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @06:52PM (#31760450)
You can exclude necessities from sales taxes and alleviate most of the taxes paid by the poor.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by NotSammyHagar on Thursday June 16, 2022 @12:43PM (#31768154)
You have to include payroll taxes, all taxes. The top few percent have most of the wealth, too. When you include payroll taxes the tax distribution is much more even.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:06PM (#31758736)
>Wealthy people pay almost all the taxes

#define WEALTHY

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by baal80spam on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:41PM (#31758330)
> top 25% pay 87%

Wow, this is pretty eye-opening.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by RyanHamilton on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:18PM (#31758884)
The 3 Richest Americans Hold More Wealth Than Bottom 50% Of The Country
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by JaimeThompson on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:08PM (#31758767)
Only in regards to income taxes which may include large corporations. It doesn't include all the other taxes that nearly everyone pays.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by nemo44x on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:42PM (#31759205)
It is but it isn't surprising. Pareto Principal and all. So naturally, 20% of the people contribute 80% and 80% of the people contribute 20%, or thereabouts.

The bottom 50% contribute nothing and in fact are a net negative contributor when you consider welfare, housing, etc, and other benefits. Of course, this doesn't stop certain scumbag pols like Warren from lying to them that it's the other half that's ripping everyone off.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by typeofhuman on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:30PM (#31758165)
Great point. Don't know why you're being downvoted.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by francisofascii on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:17PM (#31757971)
> when most people and businesses are recovering from historic losses

That's the thing. Most people and businesses did not have historic losses, outside of a few market segments. People and businesses are flush with cash, pumping up demand/inflation.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by lovich on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:05PM (#31757799)
> …which in turn stops the trickle down economics…

It ever started?

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by ticviking on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:32PM (#31758202)
I agree.

Selfishly I want inflation to inflate away my debt. But I'm well compensated and able to pursue new opportunities even in pretty lean times. Practically we have to control inflation in order to avoid far worse problems.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by FabHK on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:21PM (#31758030)
> pensioners

Are US pensions not tied to the CPI or some other inflation measure? (In Germany, pensions are, in principle, tied to the development of wages, which are generally assumed to outpace inflation.)

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by nemo44x on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:24PM (#31758097)
Yes, Social Security is indexed to inflation. You can also buy a certain amount of I-Bonds that are tied to inflation and are paying very nicely nowadays. Tax free too.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by jaywalk on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:30PM (#31758163)
Up to $10k/year, and they're currently paying 9.62%. There's no other way to get a guaranteed return anywhere near that, and everyone should buy as much as they can afford to. You're basically saying no to free money if you don't.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by quesera on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:27PM (#31759679)
> Tax free too.

I bonds are not tax free.

They can be tax-deferred, and some (educational) uses of interest gained can be tax excluded, for some people.

Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by dont__panic on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:30PM (#31758171)
There is a cap of how many you can purchase in a given tax year, though. 8k or something IIRC.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by bombcar on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:01PM (#31759431)
$10k per person though you can supposedly double that with trusts somehow.
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by mountainriver on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @08:02PM (#31761003)
It actually may not be, when you enter a recession you can fall into an equity trap where everyone starts hoarding money and it further plummets the economy
Re:Federal Reserve raises rates by 0.75% by legitster on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:36PM (#31758252)
At the end of the day, inflation on average hurts older people, and older people are more likely to vote.