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A comment on Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish you'd done much earlier?.

Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by endymi0n on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @03:24AM (#30344014)
To paraphrase my brilliant cofounder, mentor and tough sparring partner:

"The biggest lie you techies tell to yourselves is 'Build it and they will come'. Nope. Nobody ever comes by. I've beaten competitors with the better product again and again. Know why? Because marketing builds growth, growth builds revenue and revenue enables hiring brilliant people to fix your product, all the while the brilliant product people are still waiting for customers."

Let's say I've have been having kicked my ass more than I can count on some beliefs I've had, but I yet have to regret working with him.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by Kye on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @11:03AM (#30348256)
This also works for non-startup stuff. Every new Patreon supporter, every album sale came from talking about it on Twitter or Mastodon. A few have come by way of HN.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by dang on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:38AM (#30347857)
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30343207.

(There's nothing wrong with it, the subthread just ended up veering offtopic.)

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by throw8932894 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @05:35AM (#30344827)
"Build it and they come" works, for example Hotmail and Google did not invest into marketing initially. But it works in non saturated market with a few players.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @05:48AM (#30344910)
They didn't need to; Hotmail offered free e-mail accounts which was unheard of at the time; Gmail went viral for offering 1GB of storage which was unheard of at the time. The latter also had scarcity with its invite system, I'm not sure if that helped make it more popular or not. Definitely helped prevent it from collapsing under its own success though.

Anyway, I think any service now that shows up offering something used by many that is now paid for free will become popular on its own.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by ako on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @06:39AM (#30345240)
That 1GB storage comes at a cost, which is basically a marketing cost. You give something away for free, in the hope it will generate word-of-mouth marketing. That free thing you're giving away is coming out of your marketing budget.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by ChrisRR on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @06:18AM (#30345112)
Gmail didn't just offer 1GB, it also offered the ability to search through emails which I don't think any free service allowed you to at the time

In 2004 that was pretty amazing

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by marcosdumay on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @08:45AM (#30346285)
Yahoo had search. The Gmail one worked a bit better, mostly because you could automatically tag things, but it was not unheard of.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by xtracto on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:18AM (#30347535)
Gmail had plenty of marketing when it started: Both the '1 GB account' and the "Search don't Sort" snippet where heavily pushed through several marketing channels at the time (paid articles, Google search homepage, among others). Not all marketing is "ad banners". For example, all those Businesswire articles are pure marketing and advertising.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by eezing on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:27AM (#30347694)
The killer feature was archive.

Growth was viral. Only cool people had Gmail.

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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by Lendal on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @07:07AM (#30345398)
Playing the lottery works too. Evidence: I see lottery winners. Therefore it must be a good business plan.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by sfifs on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @06:41AM (#30345251)
I'm too young to remember Hotmail launch but GMAIL did market. Their marketing investments were

1. Free Storage an order of magnitude larger that anything anyone provided at that time which was an unbeatable proposition. I'd say they ate the costs of storage as marketing investment.

2. Viral invitation format -> exclusively perception

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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by wlesieutre on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @09:34AM (#30346924)
> Free Storage an order of magnitude larger that anything anyone provided at that time which was an unbeatable proposition

Gmail's free storage was two orders of magnitude better than the competition. Nearly three orders of magnitude bigger than Hotmail. They launched with a gigabyte against Hotmail's 2 MB and Yahoo's 6 MB.

We're so used to not worrying about email storage anymore that it's easy to forget just how small they used to be.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by hluska on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @08:40AM (#30346233)
I was quite young and things seemed shinier when I was young, so take this with a grain of salt. But I remember google differently. Gmail invites were a big deal, even amongst less technical people. Adding that sense of exclusivity to something they would use to advertise to us was remarkably smart.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by sanedigital on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @09:48AM (#30347116)
Like another poster said, Hotmail offered free email accounts. Google offered 1GB of storage. Both of those things are "marketing".
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by snowwrestler on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @09:27AM (#30346831)
In marketing there’s owned media, earned media, and paid media.

Google initially focused on the first two. They promoted new products like Gmail or Chrome on their search home page, and in the press. It worked well for them because they were already a newsworthy company with a lot of web traffic.

Today, they work quite hard at all three.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by altdataseller on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @08:28AM (#30346093)
Hotmail did a fair amount of commercials https://youtu.be/IQRZcfAwn0g
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by hk__2 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @09:07AM (#30346570)
Also if I remember correctly every email sent from an Hotmail address had something like "this email was sent with Hotmail" at the bottom.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by kevinmchugh on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @09:21AM (#30346745)
Also email services advertise themselves in the email address!
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by amelius on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @05:47AM (#30344905)
Wasn't there a waiting list for Hotmail/Gmail in the beginning?
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by ChrisRR on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @06:17AM (#30345104)
Gmail users initially had to be invited by existing gmail users.

That in itself is marketing.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by Softcadbury on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @04:24AM (#30344362)
Guys, you learned nothing ! You are the top comment on HN, you should share the link to your project :)
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by raverbashing on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @04:33AM (#30344414)
Remember the ABCs

A - Always

B - Be

C - Selling

That is, seize the opportunities of presenting your work and your company.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by eej71 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @05:25AM (#30344760)
I'll be that guy. Actually it's Always Be Closing.

Obligatory Glenngary Glen Ross scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7y6EOGY87U&t=104s

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by marginalia_nu on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @06:18AM (#30345113)
It actually depends on if you are using ecclesiastical marketing mnemonics (soft c like in contemporary Italian marketing) or reconstructed classical marketing mnemonics (hard c).
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by roofone on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @07:23AM (#30345521)
Esoteric Latin joke? HN rules.

I find hard c marketing is still more effective in US post/pandemic economy.

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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by marginalia_nu on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @07:28AM (#30345570)
Latin makes for some exceptionally esoteric jokes. This, to date, ranks among the funniest shit I have seen on the Internet: https://imgur.com/pztVEyh

I'm sure there are dozens of people who agree.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by swalsh on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @07:40AM (#30345678)
Depends on your product. If you're radio shack, sure, always be closing. If you're selling me an essential component of my business, and I expect to have a long term relationship with you... concentrate on the relationship and trust.

I worked for a small startup that won a HUGE contract because the big guy stopped supporting them to their satisfaction. We twisted over backwards to support their needs and they liked that.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by exogenousdata on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @09:08AM (#30346581)
Agreed with the sentiment that there are different kinds of clients/opportunities and sales cycles. However the idea specifically in ABC is the 'close'. 'Closing' is the act of securing payment from an entity. I've seen a lot of 'sales guys' who talk about how hard they're selling. But ultimately getting the money into your bank account is the real goal. Everything else is derivative.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by jes on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @09:49AM (#30347125)
Loosely quoting Eli Goldratt, "Until the money is in your bank account and there is no possibility of having to refund it to the customer, you have not made the sale."
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by willhinsa on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:08AM (#30347421)
That's literally a plot point in Glengarry Glen Ross. Al Pacino made a sale the night before, but the buyer gets cold feet and wants to back out!
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by mooreds on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @09:58AM (#30347253)
Hah, we're living that right now. Big guy got bought, raised prices and removed features. Previously happy customers start looking around, find us (and others, of course).

Over the top support and flexibility are things smallcos can offer to outcompete bigcos with more $$$ and people.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by nkrisc on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @07:02AM (#30345363)
Of course, but it’s funnier and more memorable when it’s wrong.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by bentobean on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @07:34AM (#30345611)
Actually, it’s “Always be cobbling.”

https://youtu.be/J_vSirIJEsY

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by marcosdumay on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @08:43AM (#30346263)
It's a usual joke, based on the fact that "always be closing" is horrible advice.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by sanedigital on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @09:47AM (#30347107)
It's not. It's a reminder that all of your sales and marketing efforts are wasted if you're not actually pushing towards a sale. Calls to action, follow ups, using funnels—all of these are things that increase an individual's likelihood to close. That's "ABC".
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by marcosdumay on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:46PM (#30349952)
Try to close too early and any sensible customer will run away and never talk to you again.

"Always" be closing includes too early as well as too late, after the client has run away and you will gain nothing except to alienate him further.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by sanedigital on Wednesday February 16, 2022 @11:59AM (#30362428)
Yes, a three-letter acronym is incapable of expressing every nuance of a complex interpersonal dance. ABC is about sales and marketing driving towards the close. It doesn't mean you turn a cold call into "Hi, my name is James, buy my product. This is what it does. Buy it. Do you want to know more? Buy it first."
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by ethbr0 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @09:52AM (#30347176)
It's "closing" because, from memory, they're selling junk real estate. In the US, the end of a real estate transaction is called closing, beyond which it's (mostly) irrevocable.

Hence Baldwin is effectively saying "get to the end of the transaction."

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by raverbashing on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @05:49AM (#30344918)
Yes ;) But in the context, selling makes more sense than closing.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by faeyanpiraat on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @05:33AM (#30344813)
Watch it from the beginning, its great
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by themanmaran on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:27AM (#30347681)
Noo! And it's too late to edit the comment.

https://rysolv.com/

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by dang on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @10:32AM (#30347773)
I've added it for you. Let me know at [email protected] if you changed your mind.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by trhway on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @03:47AM (#30344149)
Building MVP and finding and tuning your market fit early - those Lean Startup ideas were popular here 10 years ago. The money flood of the recent years seems to allow that 'Build it and they will come' as well as just bulldozing your way into market.
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by rozenmd on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @03:51AM (#30344172)
Nah there's more nuance to it than that - it's more that customers expect a better featured solution before buying now.

It's still an MVP, but the goalposts have shifted as more folks put up "drop your email here if you're interested in uber for dogs!" type pages.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by normac2 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @06:48AM (#30345294)
Is the idea that the product (once it's caught up) will be as good or better (and/or at least reach more people) than the original? Or is he OK with people being worse off than if your company never existed and the better product got to take the lead?
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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by welfare on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @08:59AM (#30346474)
Better is a 100% subjective term and there's a huge discrepancy between what engineers believe is a better product and what users/customers do. Our product was and still is technically inferior to competition but we still have an NPS of 9 and are extremely sticky, why? Because of our amazing sales, marketing and customer success teams who've built excellent relationship with the customers.
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