Well, there's a selection bias in LPL's videos: If he can't pick a lock today, he doesn't make a video until he can.

But you're right at a higher level: 99% of buildings have glass windows. Paying $$$$ for locks that go beyond "keeping honest people honest" is pointless if they can be bypassed with a rock.

Any lock or building is easy to defeat if you are willing to be destructive. Good locks and windows are tamper evidence devices above all else.

I've heard the common way a burglar opens a door is using a crowbar.

From what I gather:

Bump keys are the simplest way to bypass common locks. You can make one in a few hours and it’s pretty much universal.

Most doors aren’t that strong. You can’t pick a lock but you can just knock the door in.

If you can’t knock a door in, try a window.

House has a security system? Get a ladder and go to the second floor. Most security systems are only installed on the first floor.

Or cut the phone line outside the house as that’ll disable the security system entirely (unless it’s wireless).

If the security system has a combined control panel and main board, just run in and smash it. Good systems separate the control panel from the main board to delay the burglar finding it and allowing the system to call for authorities.

Basically locks, security systems, cameras, reinforced door frames, and protective film on windows are just delays, not preventatives. The idea is to delay the burglar enough such that they either get caught or so they decide to hit the next house without as many obstacles.

> You can’t pick a lock but you can just knock the door in.

A knocked-out door has the disadvantage of being noisy and visible - random passersby may spot either the act or the result and alert the police, whereas most won't even spot the difference between someone using a legit key and a comb key.

The more time passes between the burglary and the discovery, the better for the burglar - if you're already two counties away when the police establishes local roadblocks these won't catch you, CCTV camera or ALPR records get deleted, phone tower (=which phone was logged in at a certain time in a certain area) records grow bigger and harder to sift through, potential witnesses forget details.

Show up in a pickup truck in an orange vest. Use power tools to remove the door or better yet a window. Act like you belong.

Bump keys aren't quite universal. There are different keyways. Plus, not all locks are pin-tumbler locks. Also, this I'm not sure of, but I think some quality pin-tumbler locks are bump-resistant.

That's all true, but what's interesting is how ubiquitous the worst pin-tumbler lock design is. (I'll be honest, I never shopped for a good lock either! I've only bought one extra lock for an apartment once, and didn't care to get anything but the typical kind!)

The LPL is really similar to a lot of us, complaining that "right-click isn't really hacking, view-source isn't really hacking, come on your system is trivially broken" but about the locks practically everyone uses.

We also complain about companies marketing Super Military-Strength Proprietary Encryption but basic key management not making sense ... similar to how LPL likes to get the Pro Max Security big beefy trailer/fence locks and show how they have some of the same trivial design bugs as the cheap locks.

I like this guy's talk about doors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YYvBLAF4T8

Raking is the simplest way to bypass common locks. I don’t recall ever seeing LPL bump a lock. It’s certainly not his first attack.

Last time I called a locksmith to let me into my house (me losing my keys and locking myself out is a somewhat frequent occurrence) he didn’t even bother trying to pick it. Just took a few plastic wedges and used a rubber mallet to hammer them in between the door and the frame and the whole thing popped open. Took maybe 5 seconds.

Of course, you can reinforce your door frame and this doesn’t work. But the next locksmith (like I said, regular occurrence) used a bump key to pick it and was in just as fast.

Needless to say, I don’t trust door locks anymore.

The simplest were the old car-jacks that you could put sideways across a door: a few clicks to expand the jack and you could push the door frame out of linear enough that you can swing the door right open — lock catch no longer reaches.

This is my go-to technique for lockouts (I'm a firefighter, we'll get called for more "urgent" lockouts... a young child still inside, something on the stove, etc).

There are plenty of custom made tools on the market that do a great job (with built-in pads to protect the door frame, etc).

The only issue they commonly run into is a deadbolt with a throw long enough that you have to destroy the jamb and surrounding frame before it comes free.

Is this technique non-destructive and the frame returns to its original shape? From the description it sounded like it'd be way worse than something that destroys the entire door.

Ideally, yes. Wood is surprisingly flexible. Generally the worst that happens is that the paint cracks at the seams between the frame and the trim, or the jamb.

In cases where the deadbolt extends significantly into the frame, then yes, it tends to be destructive. But doors with locks that substantial tend to be sturdy enough that brute forcing the door in any fashion (even if you're just attacking the door itself) is likely to damage the frame.

There are options for "through the lock" forcible entry, where you attack the lock directly, using something like a Rex tool[1]. That will definitely destroy the lock, but usually preserves the door (but isn't suitable for every type of lock).

[1] https://www.allhandsfire.com/Rex-Tool-Forcible-Entry-Tool

You're just bowing the framing out enough for the bolt to clear, so maybe 1/4" inch in each direction. The studs will pop right back, but you might need to re-align the hinges or the bolt plate after.

I had a friend who had a car with different keys for the door and the ignition, and he lost the door key. I fashioned a coat-hanger wire into a tool to slide down the window and unlock the door.

By the time he got a replacement key, I was literally faster at opening the door with my tool than he was with his key — once you get the knack of it...

(of course the tool was much more clumsy to carry around than a key, and 2 seconds vs 3 isn't enough to care)

My new door has a mechanism where you first have to pull the handle up to engage this hook-like bolt and then lock the door with key or knob. I thought it was a bit tedious but now I finally understand the purpose. The bolt would prevent the door from being pulled apart from the frame easily.

I saw a video where someone was opening doors with a hydraulic thing that moves heavyb things up (I do not know the English word for that, an inversed press).

You find a strong pint to lean on (a wall, or the ground) and the door is forced open in a matter of seconds (something gives away, hinges or lock).

This is why my lock is a smart one, to make it easier for people to get in (the ones I want to) and I know that a burglar is not going to analyze the emission spectrum but just force my door open.

I would definitely prefer him to use technonoly and not break my door.

I'd sooner get door jam reinforcements for this reason. For everything else, there's alarms. Some are meant to detect windows breaking, but motion sensors are also a good catch all. Security-film on windows also makes breaking them more tedious.

Glass break sensors are almost never installed in residential homes; motion detectors are a lot cheaper, easier to install and more effective since a lot of attacks against windows don’t involve breaking the glass.

Can't get much cheaper than a DOBERMAN SECURITY Ultra-Slim.

a swift kick or body slam often works too

I’m not sure that’s so easy https://www.reddit.com/r/cringe/comments/jwpr1e/guy_tries_ki...

LPL has discussed locks without being able to pick them, eg the Bowley lock

https://youtu.be/qV8QKZNFxLw

Does he or anyone else have a list of locks that are really hard to pick?

There is also this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FUge4YAXzk

Breaking glass is noisy. If that would happen in my city, the entire neighborhood would know.

Presumably thieves professional enough to pick locks are also able to break glass windows without making a lot of noise?

Most professional locksmiths can't even pick locks, let alone any successful former thieves I have known. You will rarely see either not go directly for a destructive entry method even when trivial bypasses are available if one had bothered to research.

Lock picking is basically only found among the locksport community.

The neighbourhood might hear it but if nobody reacts who cares (from a burglary point of view)

If a car alarm goes off my reaction is not "oh no, someone is stealing a car" it's "man I hope they know how to shut that off quickly"

Isn't that the reason why you put tape on the glass first?

gone in 60 seconds "i gotta get my tool"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJN6VHWaerA

You have to realise that LPL has a very specific set of skills. Skills he has acquired over a very long career. Skills that make hom a nightmare for people like masterlock.

I had a locksmith out a couple of years ago, and was very disappointed when he simply got out a drill rather than starting with 'click out of one'.

LPL makes things look easy, I'm sure they aren't.

I feel like this comment comes up every time LPL is discussed outside of his context and I think it discounts the hundreds of low / no skill attacks he has demonstrated which apply to many, probably most, of the locks with recognisable name brands that are for sale in brick & mortar stores.

It took me 30 minutes to make and use a tool that he demonstrated using on a lock similar to one I own and most of that time was spent rummaging around my place trying find stuff.

Lastly, I think you got taken advantage of by a locksmith out to sell more locks and keys.

The biggest part of the LPL skillset is his knowledge about all the low-skill attacks that exist, and which locks they work on. Low-skill attacks are only effective if you know about them, and remember which locks each exploit applies to.

The only low-skill attack that seems to have any widespread effectiveness (and would therefore be worth trying on every lock) is raking, and that is pretty easily defeated by any lockmaker who cares.

I believe that "low skilled attack" also includes the ability to search the internet and watch a video. There are literally thousands of videos on YouTube with demonstrations of low skilled attacks using improvised tools.

For example I made a shim and opened a lock I own in less than 30 minutes after watching one of his videos that featured a similar lock. I had never opened a lock without a key before that day, don't have much use of two fingers on one hand, and my toolbox fits in a kitchen drawer.

For your list of common low skill attacks which have widespread effectiveness I would also include shimming, hammering, and cutting. Also in the case of locks with electronics associated with them, strong magnets.

He is also a very skilled SPPer which he will frequently demonstrate. He mentioned in the video the reason he uses so many low skill attacks is because they work so well on locks people *care* about.

The locksmith drills your lock because it takes no skill and allows them to sell (or forces you to buy) a new lock and set of keys at whatever weird time of day it happens to be. The price is almost certainly going to be higher out of normal hours. Plus if he picks the lock in 30 seconds you may not pay such a high fee.

> Plus if he picks the lock in 30 seconds you may not pay such a high fee.

A story I was told once by an electrician who worked at a steel works for years.

The story goes something like this:

One day he was called out to a big engineering workshop, all their fancy new equipment is on the blink.

He walks up to one of the machines, has a look, then without saying anything promptly turns around and walks outside, followed by the curious manager.

The electrician circles the building and turns on the first tap he sees, and lets the water flow for a few minutes spilling on the ground. After leaving that go for a while, he turns the tap off again, and walks back in and tells the machine operators to try again. Magically, they all start working again.

The electrician has been there for barely a few minutes and hasn't even touched the machine or anything else electrical.

The manager asks for an explanation, since the electrician didn't even touch anything electrical. By way of response, the electrician says "You had someone fix that tap outside that was leaking, didn't you?" the manager replies in the affirmative. The electrician then explains that the leaking tap was keeping the building grounded - the slow leak was just enough to keep the sandy soils moist enough for a proper earth connection.

The electrician hands over the bill, with the emergency callout fee and minimum hours, etc. The manager protests that surely just turning on a tap didn't warrant a fee that large.

The electrician replies that turning the tap on was free, knowing to turn the tap on was what they were paying for.

Whether that story is true or not, there's plenty of similar ones.

The point is that while you might get annoyed that an expert came in and solved the problem quickly, without that expert you were going to wait a lot longer or spend a lot more trying to fix it some other way.

Personally, I'd rather deal with a locksmith that gave me the option: We can drill the lock, you can pay (say) $300 for new locks and keys and it'll take 30 minutes. Or, you can pay $300, we'll pick it in a minute, you keep your existing keys.

The locksmith I called a few years ago used a long piece of wire with a string attached, slid it under the door to pull down the door handle from the inside.

This seems like a variation on the old story about Steinmetz, the Wizard of Schenectady, making a chalk mark on a generator at a Ford plant. Which seems to be a true story, although often not attributed. The punchline to this one has always been Steinmetz's itemized bill, of $1 to make the chalk mark and $9,999 to know where to make it.

Another version of the old "hit with a hammer" parable, albeit one where the incompetence of the elecrtician is rewarded.

Electrician in that story should have billed for and installed a better grounding, because grounding is safety.

I locked myself out one night and called a service. The guy showed up and asked if I wanted a show, or the door open. I said open the door please. He did in about ten seconds and I gladly paid full fare for the work.

Spoiler: he leaned on the door to hold the latch in place, then used a plastic shim to trip it open.

I would probably (mentally) look down on the locksmith if he/she just going to drill it out without trying anything else first. I own a power drill too and I know how to use it to break a lock myself with zero knowledge on how lock works (for some weak locks, even a flat head screwdriver is enough to get it done).

On the other hand, if the locksmith clicked my lock out in just 30 seconds, I would probably ask him/her to sell me a better (and sometimes more expensive) lock based on his/her professional opinion.

But how are you going to get your power drill if you’re locked outside? :)

Garage door opener glued to the outside that uses a PIN?

You assume a garage exists or that said person keeps tools there and not in the basement.

If we're really going for the detail.... well, my neighbor is a contractor, he owns multiple almost-dead power drills with unlimited supply of dull bits (enough to get the door open). If that's not an option, there are few hardware shops within my walking distance where I can by a new cheap power drill as well as a cheap lock. And if I really messed it up, there is a market for home renovation supplies not really far, they sell doors with comes with lock.

Now that I thought about it this deep, I think I can be a locksmith too with all the nature advantages that I clearly have here. I don't even need a power drill, a battering ram is well enough for my job. And if somebody call me to open their door, I'll just ask which color they would like for the new door that whey about to own.

The hardware store?

If he picked it as fast as LPL does some locks I may be inclined to buy a new lock from them

The one who I call is more than happy to drive by, smack a bump key with a hammer and charge me $125 for the pleasure.

Don't you need a new lock anyway? After all, you no longer have the keys.

A locksmith (or interested individual) can rekey a lock. The pins and keys are the cheapest part of the lock too, which is a contributing factor towards why locksmiths lean towards destructive entry. They get to be lazy, the method can't fail and make them look stupid in front of a customer and they get to offer you a sales pitch on buying a new lock right then and there.

Honestly, when it comes to most US locks, they really are a joke.

I learned to pick my parents safe and door locks by 8, and have taught dozens of children to pick virtually every lock you can find in a hardware store.

As a security engineer the first thing I teach peers isn't even software, but lock picking.

Peoples minds really open up when you show them how to open every lock in their own office in under an hour of training.

"Is security on almost everything we trust every day really this shit?!"

"Yes"

Thank you for this insight. I will forever advise anyone interested in getting started with computer security to learn lock picking first. Having done both In the other order id never thought of how insightful it is for fully realise the fragility of the illusion of safety as it exists in the real world as a better grounding for anyone about to learn the fragility of everything in the more complex and more abstract digital world.

> I had a locksmith out a couple of years ago, and was very disappointed when he simply got out a drill rather than starting with 'click out of one'.

That’s a common occurrence because of the incentives. The locksmith wants to spend as little time as possible (average time), and doesn’t pay a premium for destroying the lock, since most people don’t confront them on that.

LPL is amazing, but any decent locksmith could get at least near enough him in competence. It’s not that it’s so hard that very little people can do it, it’s that is very niche for most people to learn.

I bet most locksmiths are the drill and replace type and could not pick a lock reliably anyway. Locksmiths are taught how to dismantle and remove a lock these days rather than how a lock works and therefore how to beat it.

After thinking about this, I realized it makes a lot of sense given what LPL is saying.

After all, if you spent a fortune in some lock and the locksmith can open it in 5 seconds flat, you’ll feel ripped off. It’s possible that a lot locksmiths believe the locks to be safe, and they think they’re saving time by going the drill route.

Not to mention that if the locksmith is selling you the lock, he will want to avoid damaging their reputation.

Damaging the lock in the process of picking it is also an outcome that isn’t shown in the videos. LPL damages locks as well.

Time to watch this one

“Locksmith says my videos are BS… Loses $75 (Maybe)”

https://youtu.be/NSuaUok-wTY

Also if you actually watch this keynote half the problem isn’t locks you can actually pick but stuff you can just open with very basic tools that don’t even require the skill he has. Like combs, rakes, hammers, slithers of metal, etc.

Going by a presentation from a professional pen tester lock picking is usually far down on their list because there are easier ways to open many doors without picking the lock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnmcRTnTNC8

Someone who wants to get in is probably already on his way out while LPL is only halfway through with the lock.

A big part of what LPL does is exploit those non-destructive bypasses.

You have to excuse that I didn't watch the video, so i might be missing some context.

LPL's career isn't lockpicking is it? I was under the impression that it was just a hobby that turned into a youtube channel. I seem to recall him saying that he just picks locks all the time, and that's why he's good. I think he said that when he watches movies he takes a 30 locks and then he just sits there and picks them while watching.

It wasn't (he used to be lawyer) but he's won lock picking contests, apparently has a gargantuan collection of locks some of which he habitually practises on, and these days runs a company that sells lock picking tools (though I have no idea if that's his only gig).

Anyway, if you watch all / most of his videos the near constant refrain running through them isn't "with finely honed skills and the right hard to find speciality tools it's easy to open this lock" (though he does do that). Instead it's: "it's easy to open this lock with no or few skills, no or little practice, with trivially found, improvised, or purchased tools, using exploits that have been known in the lock manufacturing and locksmithing industries for decades or centuries".

That in turn is his point in this keynote. These exploits have been known in the lock manufacturing and locksmithing industries for decades or centuries and yet many, perhaps most of the locks that people can buy in stores, still have those flaws (which are easy and inexpensive to eliminate in the design and construction process).

> (though I have no idea if that's his only gig).

Pretty sure it's not. From what I've gathered, watching his videos, he's also doing consulting/training for companies on physical security.

Locks are worse than you think. I'm not skilled, I don't practice, but I've been able to get my parents back in their house within 5 minutes both times they've locked themselves out.

You call out masterlock but they're particularly bad. I lost the key to one and kept using it for a year because unlocking it was as simple as just putting the pick in while turning.

I encourage you to try out locksport as a hobby. Pretty much anyone can learn to pop open a masterlock padlock in 30 seconds or so with maybe a couple hours practice. Don't get me wrong, he makes even really, really hard to pick locks look easy, but that doesn't negate the fact that a lot of locks are just actually easy.

The locks I am most impressed with are from the days of alcohol prohibition. Some doors to speak-easy's looked like part of the wall, had no key holes. Rather just small holes all over the "wall" and you had to poke a piece of metal through the right holes and push/pull the wall in a known way. No windows, no appearance of a room, just a wall. The stairs leading down to it would usually go right past the "door" into a basement storage room with nothing exciting to see. The cops could walk right past the door a thousand times. It might be fun to build a home like this. I suppose you just have to design it so people can not see where you actually entered.

Reminds me of port knocking. Is there a name for these, info on how they're designed?

I honestly don't know if there is a name other than "custom pinhole latches". These were all custom made as required. I am not aware of a business that creates anything like this. You can find documentaries on hidden speak-easy's online but I don't have any links handy. The most prevalent implementations of this setup were in New York City but other big cities had them. I want to say the concept dates back to mid-evil times.

"Pinhole latch" sounds about right, I'll see what I can do with that.

So the interesting thing is that nearly all home insurance policies stipulate that you're only covered for theft if there are signs of forced entry - but clearly, any lock can be picked without leaving a mark. So I'd assume either these policies are a scam, or actual real world thieves are not very good lockpickers and a good old crowbar is simply faster and easier.

Lockpicking leaves marks inside the lock which look nothing like what a key leaves behind. http://www.lockpickingforensics.com/

Unless they stole your gold brick collection, no insurance company is going to dismantle your locks (all of them) and send them for forensic tests. Nor would they accept your hired expert opinion. Such procedures are only rational in extreme cases.

> Nor would they accept your hired expert opinion.

I guess they’d be hearing from my lawyer…

My lock picking lawyer…

Depends on the atack, a Lishi key should leave little to no scratches on the pins. Raking would leave the most.

> a Lishi key should leave little to no scratches on the pins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YFW0nh7h3I

The marks you’re looking for are on the sides of the pins, where they get jammed against the barrel. The Lishi doesn’t help that much in preventing this damage

Huh that is very interesting. However I suspect that unless the door was actually damaged the insurer would just go "yeah you didn't lock your door, no claim for you" - I guess you'd have to pay to get your own lock forensics done.

Yeah, the insurance company isn't going to go out of its way to prove they should pay a claim. But it could be useful for a claimant trying to get compensated.

Source please? Standard HO-3 policy defines theft coverage as

9. Theft

a. This peril includes attempted theft and loss of property from a known place when it is likely that the property has been stolen.

b. This peril does not include loss caused by theft:

(1) Committed by an "insured";

(2) In or to a dwelling under construction, or of materials and supplies for use in the construction until the dwelling is finished and occupied;

(3) From that part of a "residence premises" rented by an "insured" to someone other than another "insured"; or

(4) That occurs off the "residence premises" of:

(a) Trailers, semitrailers and campers; (b) Watercraft of all types, and their furnishings, equipment and outboard engines or motors; or (c) Property while at any other residence owned by, rented to, or occupied by an "insured", except while an "insured" is temporarily living there. Property of an "insured" who is a student is covered while at the residence the student occupies to attend school as long as the student has been there at any time during the 60 days immediately before the loss

My policy from a large building society in the UK has an explicit section for cover for theft /not/ using force and violence, but it doesn't apply if the house is lent/let/sublet. That is covered by the preceding section of theft using force and violence.

I.e. force and violence required if letting the property.

Yeah, that makes insurances pretty useless. I have a jewellery insurance but it but the number of outs for the insurance company is saddening. I need to get hurt when I getting robbed on the street before they will cover the theft of my watch. One of the reasons why I mostly wear some watches at home. And if I get violently robbed they only cover up to the retail price and not the replacement cost/price.

If anyone know a better insurance the cover the above cases in the UK. Please tell me.

So you're telling me if I'm ever robbed by an ex roommate who made a copy of the key I should take a crowbar to my door?

I mean, I'm not saying that you would, but I don't see how the rational decision when you find out you've been robbed isn't to break a window yourself. If there's no signs of entry then you simply aren't covered.

I bought lockpicks for the kids when covid hit for something to do. Within an hour, everyone could open the practice lock which is in a clear casing. Within a week, we could all open your typical masterlock and my daughter could open any of the locks you might purchase from home depot.

I spent many, many years in jail. It was fascinating to look at all the types and styles of locks used and try to figure out how to defeat them. The locks on the cells are practically impossible to pick with anything available, IMO, but the bolt itself was easy to defeat. Every cell I've been in has been insanely simple to open once the secret was known, and the knowledge was passed between all the inmates over the years.

It is so common for people to let themselves out of their cells whenever they want that I almost never saw anyone disciplined for the infraction unless you did something dumb like walked up to a sleeping guard and spooked them.

Handcuffs are hilarious. The tiny little bendable pens they sold in the jail were the best way to open the handcuffs - you can just push the nib in and turn it. Tons of people would pop the locks on their cuffs as soon as a guard wasn't looking, but you'd generally need to keep them loose on your wrists so that they would visibly look secure. Again, the guards would just grumble if you took your cuffs off, not write you up for it.

Many crimes are committed out of opportunity rather than careful obstinate planning, especially lock picking / breaking and entering: https://popcenter.asu.edu/sites/default/files/opportunity_ma...

In other words, if there was no lock, I'd enter houses that I can reasonably think are empty / populated by feeble elders myself eventually, however "honest" I appear to be now when I'm surrounded with locks and barriers to crime in general.

It's really interesting stuff, although realistically, the situations in which it matters how hard to pick a lock is are pretty rare -- the majority of situations where an evil actor is trying to bypass a lock are ones where they'd be willing to employ destructive techniques instead.

Some locks are surprisingly easy to open, despite being highly in use.

Locks are to slow an attacker. A determined attacker can bypass almost any lock, but not stealthy enough. If you drill the lock in my front door, you wake up the entire street. If you can pick it in 30 sec in the middle of the night, you wouldn't wake up anyone, but some kind of camera probably picked you up.

I used to pass this bicycle parking at a train station twice a day. I'd always look at the locks (or lack thereof) while walking, quickly thinking which ones I could certainly open (and the question is always: how quick). But I never gave in to the desire, despite a lack of locks and peers (for practice/fun).

If you pick my lock and open my door (or any window in my house) you and I will hear a 90 dB siren and I'll be waiting with a 12 gauge in about 5 seconds after the alarm goes off. I don't understand why anyone doesn't have a basic security and motion sensor setup in their house in this day and age.

There are piles of great locks out there no one, including LPL, can open non destructively in hours of work, if at all.

The trouble is very few of these can be found in the US as consumers here favor low prices and a 10/10 promise over any actual security.

Really? Asking because people send him locks all the time from all over the world, and he opens them all.

He doesn't open them all. He videos the ones he -can- open to shame them.

The Kwikset smart key v3 can't be picked because you get no feedback until all pins are set. You can decode them one pin at a time with expensive specialized tools such as a micro camera put into the cylinder but they will keep someone out for a while so they do their job. You still need to cut a custom key to get in even when you decode it so it is time consuming.

A Medeco will keep out even an experienced lockpicker for a while since pins must be in the right rotation and the right heights.

Beyond that there are really good Disk Detainer locks like the Protec 2 that have no feedback until all discs are correct. There are 0 public confirmed defeats of them.

Beyond that you get into hybrid digital keys like the Cliq. Then you can combine an cylinder known to not have any defeats with a second set of pins that can only be engaged after an AES challenge/response between a microcontroller in the key and one in the lock.

These also have never been defeated.

There are also solutions like the Bowley lock that don't expose the tumblers to the outside world and can only be defeated with many hours of work making custom tools for that specific lock.

I could go on and on.

The reason you can't buy good locks at US hardware stores is fully because the uneducated masses rejected high security locks once companies like master lock pumped out $5 locks with 10/10 security ratings in spite of any informed child being able to open them.

I would love to see people like LPL put their lawyer hats on and sue these companies for dangerously deceptive advertising.

He also talks about things he can't pick - here's a video on the Bowley where he almost immediately admits he can't pick it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV8QKZNFxLw

There are a couple of (old) videos on Medeco locks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmyC7KM5Qxk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fh6IHCr7uo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avwt39uHDOQ

Related to the Disc Detainer (come for the tooling discussion, stay for the picking):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRO5wzAaT00

Others have picked the Bowley even though LPL can't but it is more time and work than anyone could reasonably be able to do in a real world application so if anything those efforts are a strong endorsement of the lock.

This guy makes it look pretty easy, and doesn't use advanced tools or anything, just a piece of metal bent to go around the obstacle like the key does (i.e. totally reasonable time and work): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS0FSzamUzc

Linked by ryzvonusef: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29367579

Fascinating!

Of course if anyone did it, it would be huxley.

It feels like Bowley underestimated strong vibration attacks like that and didn't invest enough in spool/serrated pins.

I suspect this is correctable, but I wonder if it would work as well mounted in a sturdy door since the vibration is not directly connecting with the pins.

Kwikset Smart Key V3 can be picked, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--tva7GA9f4

Protec2: Very very difficult to pick, however there are videos of a few picking it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zVSJ_wauwg (https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/edrrjo/hardest...) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsG90UGRTpw (https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/mie59t/abloy_p...) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UZ6tcvgd9U

The Protec2 I would trust far more than the Kwikset SmartKey V3, since it appears only several of the best of the locksport community have been able to pick it.

I couldn't find record of anyone opening a Cliq. I'd be hesitant to say that's because they are unpickable, though. I believe quite a number of the locksport community would not be very interested in attempting to open a Cliq as it isn't purely mechanical.

Fair points and thanks for the corrections. I underestimated how many new developments the pandemic would yield since I last did a deep dive here.

Still they are all well designed locks.

I recommend the smartkey v3 for people that need a lot of locks they can source quickly on a budget. The sidebar design is a real pain to defeat and if the lock is in a body with tight tolerances you may not be able to shim the sidebar at all. Without some kind of attack to tension the sidebar they can't be directly picked.

For those with more money to burn the Medecos are good security for dollar.

I put a couple Protecs on my luggage as tamper evidence devices so the TSA has to call me when they need to search it.

I would not bother with Protecs on a home as they are very expensive and there are generally better areas you can invest in home security for that kind of money but if you have a small number of ingress doors they are nice.

I don't think anything is unpickable/unbackable but when the time to defeat a particular lock someone has not seen before takes 10 minutes to hours and few if any in the world can do it I classify it as a "good" lock when the status quo can be defeated in seconds.

> I put a couple Protecs on my luggage as tamper evidence devices so the TSA has to call me when they need to search it.

Does the TSA no longer open those locks with a grinder/bolt cutter?

If the shackles are short like on a trailer hitch lock so that a hardshell case like a Pelican fully covers them, then they will have to cut through the body of the lock itself or destroy the luggage.

I have never once had a lock cut. Only one flight ever did they call me for access but normally they don't bother.

YMMV.

Ah ok, interesting. Thanks for the information. I wonder if LPL is on HN and is reading any of this.

Can you name or even link a few?

The best thing I learnt from lock picking lawyer was that hand pumped hydraulic bolt cutters existed.