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Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by paxys on Monday March 29, 2021 @02:49AM (#26618393)
> It has cost us $56 billion

What if you add in the value of all the memes it has generated though? Definitely a net positive for the world overall.

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by professor_v on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:11AM (#26619993)
It never costed $56 billion. It's just $56 billion worth of goods held up for a few days. A bit like a bitcoin payment.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by curiousgal on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:44AM (#26620217)
Some of those goods are cattle. Imagine being blocked in the middle of the desert on a steel ship for days.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by gruez on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:59AM (#26620319)
It takes almost a day to transit the canal, so presumably they have some way of dealing with the heat.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by suprfsat on Monday March 29, 2021 @08:02AM (#26620339)
How many cattle can fit in a TEU?
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by MertsA on Monday March 29, 2021 @08:43AM (#26620704)
Are we dealing with spherical cows here?
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by mschuster91 on Monday March 29, 2021 @08:40AM (#26620672)
Cattle (and sheep, of which there are at least 130.000 stuck at the moment, see https://www.voanews.com/middle-east/stranded-suez-canal-ship...) aren't squeezed in containers but rather shipped on specialized ships (which in turn often are sometimes barely retrofitted other ships, such as car ferries, see https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/spanien-rinder-irrfahrt...).
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by dkdbejwi383 on Monday March 29, 2021 @02:56AM (#26618447)
Not to mention the value of teaching a lesson about single points of failure
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by Dylan16807 on Monday March 29, 2021 @03:02AM (#26618480)
What lesson is that?

Would it have been cheaper to build and maintain two canals? And it's not the end of the world if ships have to go the long way.

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by Apocryphon on Monday March 29, 2021 @03:30AM (#26618594)
Interestingly, there's at least a possibility for a Nicaragua Canal as a redundancy for the Panama Canal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_Canal

Doubt there's any alternate paths for a Suez Canal.

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by blueblisters on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:21AM (#26619643)
Wow, in a list of astoundingly bad ideas, cutting a path for large container ships through a pristine freshwater lake will probably rank at the top.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by mrfusion on Monday March 29, 2021 @09:24AM (#26621152)
I love pristine lakes too but we should look at the cost/benefit before deciding.

A pristine lake doesn’t have infinite value, right?

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by VBprogrammer on Monday March 29, 2021 @10:03AM (#26621700)
It depends on who's point of view we're evaluating it from. I haven't looked, but suppose there is an endangered species which call the lake home, perhaps that is the only place they inhabit. Putting them one oil spill away from existence.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by mekkkkkk on Monday March 29, 2021 @09:57AM (#26621601)
So, what's the going rate for pristine lakes nowadays?
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by mrfusion on Monday March 29, 2021 @10:11AM (#26621839)
It’s actually really high since you’d be ruining the enjoyment of the lake for all future generations plus the fact that you can’t predict how much enjoyment they would get from it.

But if there were enough benefits it could still be worth it. Brining 50k people out of poverty for example? Reducing trucking pollution by a large amount.

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by mckirk on Monday March 29, 2021 @10:12AM (#26621861)
Best I can do is about tree fiddy.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by riffraff on Monday March 29, 2021 @03:43AM (#26618651)
you could cut across the egypt/israel border from the gulf of aqaba.

It would be something like ten times the length of Suez, and I think there are mountains in the middle, but it would be pretty cool! :)

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by danarmak on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:04AM (#26619932)
It's been proposed before! https://www.jpost.com/opinion/an-israeli-suez-canal-393225

It would be less than 3x the length, not 10x. The mountains are a problem; it could go around but would still need to dig a lot. And it doesn't seem feasible politically right now, but it could be a really cool project.

(If it was built, then a side-canal to irrigate the Dead Sea would be a relatively cheap value-add.)

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by theshrike79 on Monday March 29, 2021 @04:17AM (#26618816)
The Norwegians are already planning a tunnel for boats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stad_Ship_Tunnel

"In March 2021, the Norwegian Ministry of Transport and Communications gave approval for preparations to begin, with the Norwegian Coastal Administration expecting construction to begin in 2022."

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by usrusr on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:25AM (#26619683)
Norway, where else! They seem to have an entirely different relation to tunneling than the rest of humanity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drammen_Spiral

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by matkoniecz on Monday March 29, 2021 @08:11AM (#26620415)
And there are canal tunnels already - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_tunnel
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by jojobas on Monday March 29, 2021 @04:27AM (#26618867)
A large portion of the channel has been upgraded into two lanes in the last few years.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by gambiting on Monday March 29, 2021 @09:21AM (#26621100)
Well maybe....make the Suez Canal wider? Like, double the width, so if this happens again ships can pass?

Or would it just lead to ships being made that can accomodate the entire width of the super-wide canal? :P

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by Piskvorrr on Monday March 29, 2021 @10:22AM (#26622028)
Look at Panama Canal: its dimensions have defined container ships since...well...since it was built (see "Panamax"). When a new and improved set of locks was built, New Panamax ships (i.e. "juust large enough to fit the new maxima") were launched.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by gambiting on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @08:33AM (#26646390)
Well I suppose that has a very simple solution - make the canal wider so that even if a ship runs into a side others can pass, but leave the entry points on both ends the same width.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by fileeditview on Monday March 29, 2021 @03:29AM (#26618586)
Maybe more like having a stockpile of essential parts may be beneficial if something like this or Corona happens.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by Dylan16807 on Monday March 29, 2021 @04:00AM (#26618730)
If you're relying on intercontinental cargo ships then you probably already know you need to have a buffer, whether you actually have one or not.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by asdfaoeu on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:39AM (#26620187)
Also, for some businesses it may just not make sense as the cost of stockpiling is more than the occasional loss of productivity.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by nebolo on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:27AM (#26619699)
Name one thing that you, as a consumer, have not been able to get a consequence of the Seuz being blocked?
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by jacquesm on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:36AM (#26620159)
Just to give you one example, there is a months worth of raw material for FFP2 masks on there somewhere.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by simonh on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:13AM (#26620008)
Why are you restricting this to consumers? There are plenty of businesses getting hurt by this.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by hutzlibu on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:37AM (#26619742)
With the delay, it might still come to us.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by WarOnPrivacy on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:21AM (#26620053)
Gas at $2.79/gal
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by f6v on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:48AM (#26619814)
I guarantee everyone will forget about it soon. Same as with pandemic, in 10 years, if the new virus strikes, governments around the world we clueless.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by KMag on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:15AM (#26620019)
> Same as with pandemic, in 10 years, if the new virus strikes, governments around the world we clueless.

SARS in 2004 primed Hong Kong for a robust virus response in 2020. As much as the HK government gets wrong, they've done a really good job so far with SARS-CoV2. We have 7.5 million people, and about 120 deaths so far from SARS-CoV2.

Though, a lot of this boils down to the fatality rate of the original SARS being something like 10%, so it was more terrifying but ultimately less dangerous on a population level due to lower transmissibility.

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by f6v on Monday March 29, 2021 @10:34AM (#26622250)
And we have a global mindset in Europe, right? So we could have learned from others. But somehow nobody invested in contact tracing infrastructure, PPE production, etc. Why? Because you can't justify more spending for something that "could happen". There's an enormous tax burden already in the EU, and governments will be struggling even more with healthcare costs in the next decades. I doubt someone will stockpile millions of KN95 masks "just in case" after the pandemic is over. Because that costs money.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by dhosek on Monday March 29, 2021 @09:20AM (#26621096)
East Asia in general has done really well with Covid. In the US, I fear that nobody will learn anything from Covid. Those who treated it as nothing more than the flu will come out of this feeling that they were right all along and treat the next pandemic exactly the same way. There was one guy interviewed at the Trump rally in Tulsa who had a friend die from Covid and still went to a rally without a mask saying he didn't know what to think about the pandemic.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by dhosek on Monday March 29, 2021 @09:22AM (#26621113)
On the flip side, it is a technological miracle that 1 year and a day after I was last in the office, I was able to get my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine (or, for that matter, that a vaccine even existed).
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by tetris11 on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:18AM (#26620037)
Technology is the only thing we humans have going for us. Our collective memory is just as poor now as it was thousands of years ago
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by mywacaday on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:16AM (#26620022)
More of a very large DOS attack, but in all seriousness what would happen if some rogue state decided to launch a missile into the side of one of these in the missile of the canal, how long would clean up operation take.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by guywhocodes on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:36AM (#26620152)
How about a well placed 50-500kg? shaped charge to take out the rudder
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by mekkkkkk on Monday March 29, 2021 @10:01AM (#26621673)
Unless it happens to end up diagonally like this one, it would probably just be tugged off, no?
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by psychiatrist24 on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:24AM (#26619669)
Actually ships already have the option to take the long way around Africa.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by m463 on Monday March 29, 2021 @04:05AM (#26618757)
I don't think it's a single point of failure, more like a bottleneck with delays.

But over the last few decades we have been much more efficient with globalization, but the just-in-time aspect is like a traffic jam, where one slow spot makes everyone everywhere back up and wait in traffic affecting everything.

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by HPsquared on Monday March 29, 2021 @04:15AM (#26618805)
Factorio players know that feeling.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by m463 on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:27AM (#26619700)
This would be one of those "carry a bunch of ingredients in my inventory and run" situations.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by eloff on Monday March 29, 2021 @10:48AM (#26622507)
Most of the Suez Canal is twinned, this ship got stuck in the southern single lane area.

I think Egypt will more seriously consider twinning the southern part after this event.

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by michelb on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:53AM (#26619847)
It's a nice refresher about (anti)fragility.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by nvoid on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:03AM (#26619924)
fuggedaboutit
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by ReptileMan on Monday March 29, 2021 @03:03AM (#26618485)
Umm.. There was never single point of failure. Just single point of delay. It's not as if there are perishable goods on those ships.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by bkor on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:14AM (#26619593)
> Umm.. There was never single point of failure. Just single point of delay. It's not as if there are perishable goods on those ships.

What do you think they use reefer containers for? Container vessels often have loads of perishable goods on them. Though it's often biased one-way. E.g. Latin America to Europe? Loads and loads of bananas. Norway to anywhere? Salmon!

The bananas are green when plucked; they ripen during the voyage.

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by Scarblac on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:13AM (#26619589)
There are lots of livestock on ships in the queue, something on the order of 100,000 animals will literally perish.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by SkipperCat on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:10AM (#26619979)
If this is so, my guess is that there will be a lot of well fed fish on both sides of the Suez Canal.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by asdfaoeu on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:54AM (#26620283)
Would they not just be able to transport more feed? (At least for most)
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by Symbiote on Monday March 29, 2021 @09:00AM (#26620878)
"The nearby ports of Said and Suez could be used to reload fodder if supplies run low, though the process may not be straightforward with so many ships in the queue."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/26/at-least...

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by TeMPOraL on Monday March 29, 2021 @03:39AM (#26618635)
Lots of goods shipped are effectively perishable, in that you may as well write them off and dump them somewhere if the shipment misses a particular sales season.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by capableweb on Monday March 29, 2021 @05:43AM (#26619319)
If that was true for the Evergreen ship, wouldn't they have dismantled the ship by now then? Not saying you're wrong overall, maybe it just doesn't apply to this particular shipment. As far as I know, we don't know exactly what is on the Ever Given.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by bkor on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:17AM (#26619617)
> If that was true for the Evergreen ship, wouldn't they have dismantled the ship by now then?

The vessel is completely filled with containers. To discharge a container you need a crane. Further, some perishable things, that's why shippers have insurance.

Not sure what you mean with 'dismantle' though. It's rather obvious you never seen such a vessel up close. It's nor like a pc. If you want a specific container, it can often be a complete hassle to get to it. This as loads of other containers are stacked on top.

Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by mkl on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:42AM (#26619774)
Even if it was empty and in a suitable dock, dismantling a ship that size would take weeks at minimum.
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by emteycz on Monday March 29, 2021 @03:06AM (#26618498)
Except the sheep
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by Invisible-Hand on Monday March 29, 2021 @08:36AM (#26620619)
The real stuck ship was the friends we made along the way
[dead]
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by tsujp on Monday March 29, 2021 @06:46AM (#26619802)
Somewhat ironically/unironically depending on your stance the author of the website appears to be selling the page as an NFT: https://opensea.io/assets/0x495f947276749ce646f68ac8c2484200...
Re:Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update by SkipperCat on Monday March 29, 2021 @07:11AM (#26619992)
With the current mania about NFTs, I think the sale might recoup the whole loss to the global economy.