News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by fossuser on Monday March 22, 2021 @01:55PM (#26544224)
When I search Google now I mostly get spam.

“Product vs. Product” -> list of spam websites that just show them side by side with ads.

“Product Review” -> same as above, spam.

“Product referral code” -> sites with spam and no codes.

Interesting web content is in Reddit (and youtube), Google exists as a tool to search Reddit since the “new” Reddit site is awful.

Programming questions are mostly stack overflow, but occasionally you get a useful blog.

General knowledge is Wikipedia, news is axios.

Amazon for most purchases (except for products that have their own brand and sites that are at risk of being faked). Etsy for boutique stuff.

Most of the rest of the web is junk.

I think we could probably go back to curated 90s era web portals and have a better experience.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by dundarious on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:31PM (#26544785)
I have a cat that is always ravenous for anything edible, even if it's not exactly typical cat fare, e.g., my leftover salad, berries, etc. Trying to search for "can cats eat X" after he manages to get a few sneaky morsels is almost pointless. There are so many spammy sites for every value of X, and I have no idea if it's a sophisticated problem to systematically exclude this type of useless content, but Google's top results are chock-full of sites that all seem to follow the format below, where the question is not answered at all:

Is it safe for cats to eat X?

Cats are mischievous and we love them.

X is not typical cat food. Let's go over some background on X before we answer the question.

Cats are obligate carnivores.

Thanks for reading, make sure to subscribe or buy these products!

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ratww on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:48PM (#26545038)
Yep, this is Content Marketing. People use SEO tools to gauge how good a blog post is going to rank, and the current sweet spot seems to be around 1000 words, so they end up filling it with fluff. Some of those are even machine generated.

The answer to the "can cats eat X", of course, can't be at the beginning or at the end. The reason is that the user must stay a long time and read the text, otherwise Google punishes the website for having a more than acceptable "bounce rate".

Putting the answer in the title (what has been dubbed "Anti-clickbait") also makes the site "less clickable" and will make it drop from the results. Trust me, I tried.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by dmart on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:00PM (#26546056)
I don't believe for a second that Google's algorithms are unable to identify and remove content marketing blogspam from the results. It must be profitable somehow for the majority of search results to be utterly useless.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by lordgrenville on Monday March 22, 2021 @05:05PM (#26547044)
> I don't believe for a second that Google's algorithms are unable to identify and remove content marketing blogspam.

Easy for me to believe. They have to use some formula, and as soon as they change it, well, there's a massive industry dedicated to getting around it. If their algorithm is just "filter out what's useless", that's AGI.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Retric on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:15PM (#26548759)
Then what’s the point of using Google? In terms of AGI, we have that if Google where to say employ people to look at say the top million searches and heavily penalize junk they could make real headway.

Personally, I swapped to DuckDuckGo in 2019 and have been consistently happier but Bing or whatnot is probably equally valid at this point.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by tannhaeuser on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:31PM (#26550764)
I've used DDG for years now. They give me the exact same results that Google does, all the time. And why wouldn't they when they're indexing the same web sites. Full-text search isn't rocket science, after all, and it's not like new websites with quality content have surfaced lately given the incentives. I don't even bother to cross-check Google's result anymore, something I occasionally used to do maybe two years ago.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by doix on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @05:48AM (#26552982)
That's interesting, whenever I search for anything programming related the results differ greatly and google always wins.

I actually switched to DDG cold-turkey and didn't use !g at all. Until I couldn't solve some problem and someone in my team said "it's the first result on google", I felt pretty stupid then. Since then I've given up and just automatically stick !g whenever I'm searching anything programming related.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by account42 on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @08:18AM (#26566192)
> Full-text search isn't rocket science, after all

Full text search isn't, but ranking the results is - and more importantly there is no objectively best ranking.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by tannhaeuser on Wednesday March 24, 2021 @11:03AM (#26568122)
Yes, and Google sucks at it.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by tfehring on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:29PM (#26549878)
I use DuckDuckGo by default but I probably add !g to redirect to Google 2/3 of the time. DDG seems to be a little bit worse about rewarding user-hostile SEO spam [0], but honestly the main reason is that with Google I can use [1] to block those domains. DDG is also still noticeably worse for vague or complex queries IME.

[0] When I search "postgres array_agg" on DDG - something I actually had to search for today - the Postgres documentation is the 6th hit (not even visible without scrolling down!), preceded by crap like https://archive.is/7JeSe. On Google it's the 2nd hit, also preceded by what seems like SEO spam.

[1] https://github.com/wildskyf/personal-blocklist

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by abryzak on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @04:00AM (#26552275)
I sometimes find myself going to Google for some complex queries or obscure error messages as well, but I'll usually try an alternative query first.

In this case, DDG happens to have a bang shortcut for postgres which takes you directly to the search results on the PostgreSQL site if you query !postgres array_agg.

There's a surprisingly large number of these which end up making it more useful than the generic web search results page overall.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by notriddle on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:17AM (#26551372)
> we have that if Google where to say employ people to look at say the top million searches and heavily penalize junk

I doubt a million is going to make a dent in it. Content marketers are automatically generating this stuff, and Google has billions of users, many of which will occasionally invent a novel query.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Felz on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:28AM (#26551125)
If they curated like that, esp with employees, they'd open themselves to an infinite number of lawsuits.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by samatman on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:14PM (#26546272)
The point of content marketing blogspam is to pester the reader with AdWords and the occasional affiliate link.

Old-school useful content is rarely monetized, just someone sharing their passion for something. Occasional affiliate link, with the obligatory apologetic "hey web servers cost money, so I included some affiliate links here!"

The uselessness is just a side effect of Google directing you toward paying customers.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ratww on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:46AM (#26552175)
You're thinking of Content Farms. I think the current villain is Content Marketing, which is to attract people to your website without paying for AdSense, via an inane blog post. Like the Michelin guide or Guinness book did before the internet.

The reason Google keeps those results near the top is because it drives up the cost of AdSense, since multiple competitors are fighting for the first page of organic results with those tactics, and AdSense is a way to "cut the line".

The result for users is that the first page of most result pages is littered with advertisement, either via real AdSense or with those inane marketing blog posts.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by mook on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:08PM (#26550173)
The other answers are probably the actual reason, but it's amusing to me to think that it's because giving you incorrect results drives up engagement on the search because you keep going back… it's also obviously the wedding metric to use in this case, but that has never stopped people before.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by datavirtue on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:31PM (#26548932)
The sites are all packed with google ad spam. Why would they not promote them. Google benefits when people click fake download buttons too.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by bostonsre on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:03PM (#26549212)
If you need to click more links to find useful content, then google probably does benefit.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by nonameiguess on Monday March 22, 2021 @05:21PM (#26547298)
I use DuckDuckGo and haven't used Google in years, but searching "can cats eat asparagus" shows three answers above the fold just in the snippets without even needing to go to the page. Yes, they can, apparently, and it's perfectly safe. No ads in the results, either.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ratww on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @04:24AM (#26552424)
The reason for that is that no professional Content company has made content for "can cats eat asparagus" yet. If this ever pops up on SEMRush or SEOMoz people will start making pages for it, and the results that don't get clicked will be driven to the second or third page.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by sdefresne on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @04:14AM (#26552357)
I get the same thing using Google search. Three results with the answer in the snippet.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by dopidopHN on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:32AM (#26551453)
I have a continued interest in the gopher on steroid that is the gemini protocol. It makes it hard or impossible to have non-static content, and css do not exists. navigation is a bliss, only or obedient bots are talking.

try it here : ssh [email protected]

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by meetups323 on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:24PM (#26548855)
Bing is the clear winner here, "Can cats eat asparagus" produces a nice H2 "Yes" followed by "According to 2 sources", then two side by side paragraphs with the "yes they can" and surrounding context right at the top of the results page.

I'm honestly such a huge fan of the Bing widgets, every time I see a someone google search for something basic and need to dredge through all of the AdWords laden blogspam, while I know bing has a good widget in your face widget with the answer, I can't help but feel confused at all the "Bing bad Google good" rhetoric.

Some of my favorites:

Annual Weather charts: See chart with monthly breakdown of temperature & rainfall for any location along with record temps, days of rain, and configurable units; Google has something similar but it presents the first few rows of a table first, with a separate tab for charts, and then the charts don't have nearly as much data (avg hi/lo, inches of rain, hours of daylight (bing doesnt have hours of daylight, so +1 to google for that))

Random animal fact cards: Try Binging something like "marsupial", you get a beautiful hand-crafted info card. There isn't one for every animal, but it's clear thought goes into creating them and they always make me happy to see for whatever reason.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by _cs2017_ on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:10PM (#26548698)
A commenter deeper in the thread mentioned the example of

can cats eat asparagus

I tried Google search, and produces a semi-useful snippet at the top, and reasonable results afterwards. Can you share what search you ran that had very bad results?

Can cats eat asparagus? ... It is neither toxic nor dangerous for our cats to consume in very small portions, but neither is it truly beneficial to them. Cats are obligate carnivores. Unlike dogs, who can and do eat everything they can wrap their jaws around, cats tend to be much more finicky eaters.

Can Cats Eat Asparagus? - Is It Safe For Cats? - ExcitedCatsexcitedcats.com › Blog Feb 12, 2021 — Vegetables, including peas, carrots, and asparagus, are safe for most cats to eat in small quantities. However, remember that your cat isn't going ... ‎Interesting Facts About... · ‎Which Vegetables Can I... · ‎Is Asparagus Safe for Cats?

Can Cats Eat Asparagus - Cats Dogs Blogcatsdogsblog.com › can-cats-eat-asparagus Oct 18, 2020 — Although there are benefits for giving your cats asparagus, the potential risks are far much dangerous and outweigh the benefits. It is therefore not ...

Why Do Cats Like Asparagus? (And Is It Safe?)betterwithcats.net › why-do-cats-like-asparagus The short answer is that yes cats can eat asparagus in small amounts without any problems. But while asparagus is quite healthy for humans, your cat really doesn't need to eat it.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by blueboo on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:27PM (#26545531)
Is it really that bad? I tried three queries.

Can cats eat chocolate? Yields ovrs.com (Oakland vet), purina, webmd, thesprucepets.com (cat blog run by vets), pdsa (pet veterinary charity)...

Can cats eat grapes? Yields top-N dangerous foods for cats listicles from various sites such as pet insurance and cat food brands. A response from a veterinary trust is in the top ten.

Can cats eat paint? Yields all reputable medical sources for the first several hits.

I’m not sure I can square this with your description of ubiquitous spam swamping out useful information.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by dragonwriter on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:21PM (#26546370)
> Google's top results are chock-full of sites that all seem to follow the format below, where the question is not answered at all:

Huh, I just tried this with a bunch of stuff and the snippets for each of the top several results for each all had fairly direct yes/no answers with reasons. Don't know if I got lucky hitting the right food items, or if it's a personalization issue.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by tim333 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @10:34AM (#26555527)
>Trying to search for "can cats eat X" after he manages to get a few sneaky morsels is almost pointless

Contrary to that I tried "can cats eat salad" and got basically a yes in the first line:

"If your cat loves lettuce and greens, these can be a great source of water, bulk, and nutrients..."

It fits with the 2/3 of searches end without a click though. That was on Google's results page - I didn't have to click.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by gnulinux on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:59PM (#26545184)
For my cat, I'd probably just call the pet poison line in my state/country. Dogs are relatively better at eating human food (except very obvious well known examples like alcohol, grapes, cooked bones etc) but most plants can be poisonous to cats, so I wouldn't risk it.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by _nalply on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:11PM (#26545346)
Simple rule: Chocolate is poisonous to cats. And what's poisonous to humans is usually poisonous to cats as well.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by gnulinux on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:36PM (#26545678)
This is a terrible simple rule if you have a cat. Most house plants are poisonous to cats.

https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/animal-poison-control/toxic-a...

In addition to plants, common human drugs like alcohol, THC and caffeine are also poisonous to cats.

Also common human spices such as salt, garlic and onion can be toxic too. Cats tolerate very small quantities of these (e.g. small slice of salami), but feeding your cat a chicken with garlic sauce is probably a bad idea.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by _nalply on Monday March 22, 2021 @06:38PM (#26548324)
I retract my simple rule. It's bad. Sorry.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Traubenfuchs on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:14PM (#26546274)
While we are at it: The popular hair loss medication minoxidil is HIGHLY TOXIC to cats.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by typon on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:21PM (#26544625)
For pretty much any product or review related search I just do "<product name> reddit" and then scour the somewhat up voted posts for information. Have to deal with tons of dead links though for any post older than a couple of years. The Web really seems like it's an awful place. The original dream of hyper links is really dead. It's all about jumping from walled garden to walled garden through tricks and luck.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by pkamb on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:38PM (#26549002)
1. Search "<product name> reddit" 2. AMP page loads 3. "See Reddit in... App or Browser?" banner w/ grayed out page. Tap Browser. 4. Click through the AMP page to the real Reddit page. 5. Second "See Reddit in... App or Browser?" banner w/ grayed out page. Tap Browser. 6. Fail to read the majority of comments, which are hidden by New Reddit. 6. Manually edit URL bar to replace "www." with "old." 7. Read the comments.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by totetsu on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:31PM (#26549885)
That's still more user friendly than trying to read peoples instagram without an account.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by rvba on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:02PM (#26549656)
They screwed the address bar so you cannot edit it easily
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by the_duke on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @04:43AM (#26552543)
In the new Reddit settings you can disable new Reddit, which will make the regular domain use old Reddit.

No broken links and much better experience.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Nition on Monday March 22, 2021 @08:52PM (#26549571)
For Reddit on mobile, try "i." instead of "old.".
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by cryptoz on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:29PM (#26544753)
Google is having trouble determining the date of reddit posts and is also making their filter rules useless. You try to filter last month, a result says 3 days ago and you click, but reddit says it was 2y ago!
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by typon on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:55PM (#26545128)
Agreed, this is infuriating
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by zip1234 on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:37PM (#26544873)
and reddit has gotten much less useful with all their push for login and using their app...
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by dschuessler on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:34PM (#26546565)
Use the Teddit frontend (https://teddit.net/) and the Redirector extension (https://einaregilsson.com/redirector/) to redirect all Reddit links to Teddit and view the content there. You won't be bothered by pushes for login again.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by yewenjie on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:02AM (#26550954)
there is also https://libredd.it
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Spivak on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:44PM (#26544984)
This in no way absolves their god awful mobile experience but if you're logged into Reddit with the new UI turned off or use the Old Reddit Redirect add-on it's basically as if nothing on Reddit changed since 2011.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by londons_explore on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:53PM (#26545106)
The new UI is great! It keeps the programmers occupied so they stop messing with the old UI that I actually want to use.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by hntrader on Monday March 22, 2021 @06:12PM (#26548029)
This was one of the few UI changes that I never got accustomed to over time. It's still just as bad, irritating and ugly as the first day I used it.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by typon on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:02PM (#26545247)
Till one day they pull the old UI and theres nothing you can do about it
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ookware on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:45PM (#26545807)
The day they turn off old reddit and stop third party API access is the day I can finally detox myself from reddit.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Spivak on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:38PM (#26545717)
I mean there's not nothing you can do. You can still grab the source to old Reddit and it's just a matter of gluing the old UI to the new API like all the 3rd party clients do.

Not trivial by any means but there's a lot of prior art floating around you could pull from.

Sure they could pull API access and be more hostile to scrapers but that's the current escape hatch for people who would have left because of the redesign.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by breakingcups on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:13PM (#26546261)
I'm even more worried they'll shut off the API at some point and start going hostile to third-party clients.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by mjrpes on Monday March 22, 2021 @06:11PM (#26548012)
That might begin the next major exodus. Digg -> Reddit -> ???
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by unionpivo on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:07PM (#26545304)
:) The old wife and a mistress approach
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by astrange on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:07PM (#26546170)
Their mobile website works fine for me, or at least the annoyances are a blessing because I spend less time on it. The one thing I do notice is if you follow a link out of reddit then go back, it shows an error instead of the thread and you have to reload, which loses your place.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by pkamb on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:39PM (#26549009)
Google still loads the AMP page instead, which looks like New Reddit.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by throwaway743 on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:46PM (#26545824)
That, and don't get me started on their search. Love getting 0 results on initial submit, then reloading the page with the results magically appearing...

Also love being redirected in order to continue reading certain threads

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by datavirtue on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:36PM (#26548983)
Yeah. I had decent karma or whatever on a ten year old account and got banned for not having an email address. Shrug. Pretty much killed my reddit habit.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:46PM (#26546740)
"Most of the rest of the web is junk."

Google today limits how much of "the web" (their index) they will let you see.

You are only seeing what they choose to allow you to see.

Google, not the user, determines "relevance" and Google automatically excludes results. in theory this sounds useful. In practice, Google is now limiting max number of results to 200-300 or 500 if you add &filter=0. Retrieving 501 search results for a single search is not allowed. Sorry.

Try a search for some common phrase like "the web". Surely this phrase occurs on more than 500 web pages. Yet Google will limit you to only 231 results. Does that represent the entire www. Then you try "repeat the search with the omitted results included". Google then limits you to 466 results. WTF. What if you searched page titles for some string. Is every string you search going to be found in less than 500 pages.

Google search results today are not representative of the entire www. Not even close.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by monkeybutton on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:21PM (#26544642)
IMO Google Image search has gone down hill significantly too. Getting full pages of pinterest results was bad enough but now on my phone you have to scroll past multiple screens worth of Google Shopping ads or images tagged with the "Product" icon before you see any actual, organic photos of the thing you're looking for.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ep103 on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:27PM (#26544724)
Google Images now only returns maybe 1-200 images by default, and if you click show me more, it shows a few hundred. The top results are consistently pinterest garbage, or similar types of spam. Images are consistently diverse from what I've typed in, and results seem curated to show a diverse types of results, which, given the small number of returned relevant images, means I rarely find something that looks like what I'm looking for.

What I've discovered, though, is that what google images now does, is it is only returning a few results. If you click a result, then there's a "new-to-me" "related images" section that shows images similar to THAT image, only in that window. It is in these images that I actually see the results I was expecting to show on the main page.

Its still far worse than google images 10 years ago, but not as bad as the UI makes you believe by looking at the initial results page.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Hnrobert42 on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:34PM (#26544824)
For my money, yandex.com now has the best search results.

Beware though, yandex allows NSFW by default. You have to enable safe/family search. This is the opposite of Google and Bing, so it could get you in trouble at work. Those crazy Russians.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by kikokikokiko on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:37PM (#26544882)
So, they just show you what you are looking for :-) I remember the days when Google would not try to protect me from "dangerous" sites and images.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by datavirtue on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:40PM (#26549013)
Thanks man. OMG yandex blows google out of the water. Totally forgot about it
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by tompagenet2 on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:26PM (#26544712)
I know this sounds implausible, but I find Bing image search so much better than Google.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by kikokikokiko on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:35PM (#26544837)
Not just for images. Bing seems to be a lot more closer to what Google search used to be a few years ago. Anything related to torrents or streams is pretty much impossible to find on Google. Any news not spouted from mainstream sources, gone from Google. My default search deck nowadays is a mix of Bing and DuckDuckGo.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by marshmallow_12 on Monday March 22, 2021 @05:52PM (#26547753)
it's nice to see my vague worries, bothering me in the back of my head put into words. Also good to know that i'm not crazy for thinking googles results are surpisingly poor and generic. I sometimes get the same feeling using google that i get reading a poorly transalated manual from a Chinese company. Generic, admire the fact some effort has been made, little laugh inside. Except this is google (and ironically, the chinese copywriters are probably using Transalate)
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by AlexandrB on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:55PM (#26545136)
Yandex is surprisingly good at image search and allows you to crop the source image in-browser.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by superdisk on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:21PM (#26546366)
Yandex is CRAZY good. There's a Firefox plugin that lets you reverse image search from the right click menu, and it opens a tab for Google, Bing, Yandex, Baidu and TinEye. Yandex is the king every time.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by DanBC on Monday March 22, 2021 @06:43PM (#26548378)
Bing had a problem with images of child sexual abuse, and with bestiality images. I don't know if they've fixed that.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by creamynebula on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:27PM (#26546457)
Indeed, recently I tried Yandex for the first time and the results were way better for everything I had to search in the past 2 months since discovering it.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by axaxs on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:02PM (#26544331)
Agreed with everything above.

If I ever X vs Y in google, I append site:reddit.com

I'm not a huge fan of Reddit, but it's about the largest forum. I really miss Forum search in Google.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Shared404 on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:10PM (#26544453)
> I really miss Forum search in Google.

You may find this useful: https://boardreader.com/

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by axaxs on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:36PM (#26544859)
This is awesome, how did I not know it existed. Thank you!
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Shared404 on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:45PM (#26544989)
Always happy to help!

I try to "collect" search engines, so I'm always interested in finding more/sharing the ones I've found.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by rurp on Monday March 22, 2021 @05:06PM (#26547053)
One I just recently discovered is symbolhound.com. It's nice because it lets you search for characters that google absolutely refuses to treat as search terms. I needed to debug some makefiles and bash scripts the other day (not my strong suit!) and it helped me understand some of the weird syntax I was seeing.

As others have mentioned, Google no longer respecting literal search terms has made it much worse for many types of searches. DDG had been great at this, but sadly has been following in Google's footsteps the past few years.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Shared404 on Monday March 22, 2021 @06:01PM (#26547878)
Ooh thanks! I'll throw that on the list!
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ddingus on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:22AM (#26551404)
Do you ever publish your list?

After reading through this discussion, I am inclined to explore search.

This crap sneaks up on a person one little adaptation at a time.

Searching on Yandex was a wake up call.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Shared404 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @09:20AM (#26554619)
Most of it is here [0].

I update whenever I remember, which is sometimes.

It is currently up to date, except for the above linked engine. It doesn't have as many special purpose engines as I'd like though.

[0] http://a-shared-404.com/other-stuff/

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ddingus on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @11:49AM (#26556445)
Thanks. OctoPart can go on your speciality list, fwiw
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Shared404 on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @12:11PM (#26556692)
Many thanks, I would've killed for this about a month ago.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ddingus on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:35PM (#26557739)
So would I. Got it late myself.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by edoceo on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:02PM (#26545235)
Now I'm waiting for your Show HN curated list of alternative search engines
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Shared404 on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:28PM (#26545542)
I've thought about doing it before. I don't have quite enough to justify a Show HN though.

You can see the list here[0], and if you see more feel free to send them my way!

[0] http://a-shared-404.com/other-stuff/

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ddingus on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:20AM (#26551395)
Same! I just tried a few "likely to find in forum" searches and it hit!

Added to my playbook. Thanks again.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by nafizh on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:12PM (#26544481)
Yesterday I discovered, if you go to the 2nd page of the search results the "site:example.com" no longer works. The user hostility is shocking.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by lrem on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:01PM (#26546064)
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ergot_vacation on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:11PM (#26557376)
You too eh? Over the past decade I've gone from loving reddit to actively avoiding it in most cases, but if I'm looking for specific info on a niche topic, adding "reddit" to a search is often the only way I can get real content written by and for real human beings instead of SEO spam.

Sinister twist though: the SEO crowd has gotten wise to this. I've noticed recently that they've started throwing "reddit" into their spam as a random keyword.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by FpUser on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:53PM (#26545105)
>"I really miss Forum search in Google"

I absolutely hated when they did remove it. I was able to sort of mitigate it by adding "forums" and "discussions" to search terms but it is not the same of course.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by bcrl on Monday March 22, 2021 @06:26PM (#26548180)
Amazon search is similarly broken. Try to find an ECC DIMM on Amazon. Everything I try results in dozens of listings for non-ECC DIMMs. Even searching for " ECC" doesn't work all that well. It's sad that in these days of advanced neural networks, we can't get a simple binary attribute matched correctly in search results.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by necovek on Monday March 22, 2021 @06:42PM (#26548364)
I guess it's location based too (like Google is). Searching for "ECC DIMM" returned a bunch of actual ECC memory chips available to ship overseas on the first page of results on Amazon.com, though I'd still suggest being more specific when searching for ECC RAM myself (eg. RDIMM or UDIMM or...).
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by bcrl on Monday March 22, 2021 @06:56PM (#26548543)
I did, and that helped a little, but it's just sad that what should be a solved problem by now isn't. Nearest neighbour search is so not helpful to me in many cases.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by fomine3 on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:28PM (#26549871)
That's because they called "non ECC"
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by nwienert on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:05PM (#26545278)
There's a common thread in every one of the good sources of search information: user curated content.

Usually: voted on/curated by members who are specialized in some way (reddit, so, hn, wikipedia to a degree).

The fallbacks are editorial sites.

If you make a search engine that focused on indexing user-curated sites + results outside of that that are themselves curated/voted-on by your search engine users (ie, you and others could upvote axios and Amazon as a good source), I think you'd have an interesting model. Basically, take the HN/reddit model to search itself.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ChefboyOG on Monday March 22, 2021 @09:43PM (#26549973)
This is the essence of what Google implements. Links between sites are a form of user curation, user behavior (clicks, read throughs, bounce rate, etc.) are like inferred votes. The problem is, everything is gameable. Marketers abuse reddit as well, it just isn't quite as profitable as ranking #1 on Google. If a major search engine implemented a voting model, it too would spring an entire industry of "optimizing" for rankings via upvotes.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by nwienert on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:14PM (#26550212)
It's nothing like what Google implements.

Which is easier: enforcing one account per person and then identifying bad-voters, or not doing that and having N pages, and N*M page links?

Further, you'd now have direct access to customizing results per-user. Use my votes.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by queuebert on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:16PM (#26544547)
You can search Reddit from DuckDuckGo by adding '!r' to your search terms. This is how I search most of the time these days for the exact reasons you mention above. DuckDuckGo has many other bang shortcuts like that too, like '!w' for Wikipedia. Actual search engine results are too manipulated, but they make great link aggregators.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by bentcorner on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:45PM (#26545809)
Note that "!r <foo>" is different than "site:reddit.com <foo>". The former redirects you to reddit's own search, the latter keeps you on DDG but restricts the results to reddit.com.

I prefer "site:reddit.com" but honestly it's only because I'm used to it. I search in-app on mobile frequently (which I assume is the same as the on-site search) and it's generally pretty good. It usually finds something for me but sometimes using an external search engine works better.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by CiceroCiceronis on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:17PM (#26545411)
Also, you can set up custom search prefixes for more obscure sites you visit regularly using Firefox (potentially Chrome too).
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by jjbinx007 on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:00PM (#26544311)
Occasionally I open a private window and try browsing the web on my phone or laptop without an ad blocker. It doesn't take long before the autoplaying videos and Taboola crap makes me close the browser.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by purerandomness on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:12PM (#26544491)
You can set extensions to work in private windows in the settings.

Agree, the web is unusable without an ad blocker.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by _cs2017_ on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:16PM (#26548764)
Product vs Product -- I hate those generic websites that compare everything to everything. I am absolutely sure that Google can detect and downrank them. Why doesn't it? Maybe most users like those links, and Google is happy to oblige by keeping them at the top? In that case, I suppose, I should blame the mass market taste rather than Google.

I think the future of search is in finding trusted results, such as those upvoted by reddit or HN or SO, assuming the upvoting system is robust enough to withstand spambots etc. The question is whether a big enough fraction of the population actually care to get good search results.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by numpad0 on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:49PM (#26545057)
What really astonish me is they sometimes give me straight up malvertising fake domains, like “general-<word>-info. xyz” second or third from topmost these days! wtf.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by rchaud on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:36PM (#26545681)
And people say SEO is snake oil!

You are absolutely correct. So many of the top results are basically machine-generated pages, perfectly optimized for search robots, not so much for humans.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Gustomaximus on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:36PM (#26550803)
I think 2 changes would really help to improve:

1) Bring in tabbed search result like Cuil search used to have. Easily lets you go to similar/variant topics from UX POV and must be a good way for a search engine to learn what people want more.

2) Add a 'dont show this site' option. So they can easily see when people get annoyed with a result and use that as a ranking signal against search terms. E.g. if people press that for a particular KW but not usually Google knows they got that result wrong and if people press it for almost everything you know its a site people dont want to see. And at a personal level its great to custom remove stuff, like when Pinterest was dominating so much a year or so ago.

Would be a great way to community curate results.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by hef19898 on Monday March 22, 2021 @03:25PM (#26545517)
Oh yeah, try finding honest product comparisons and test. It is spam or "aggregated tests" on shopping sites. latest examples: cameras and tires. Cameras worked reasonably well on youtube (required some diging to get the "influencer" stuff out of the way). Tires required going through various forums. because every single video or review for tires I was looking for was product placement, spam or both. in the end price and availability decided the tire question. sometimes I miss the times when you had magazines catering for a certain domain doing honest tests and reviews. Well, even back then magazines started to prefer Canon over Nikon or the other way round.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by amelius on Monday March 22, 2021 @06:21PM (#26548122)
According to Google search, 90% of the web is content farms.

Probably some financial positive feedback loop is responsible for this.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by blueboo on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:01PM (#26546080)
My experience is puzzlingly contrary to the unanimously-shared frustration above.

I tried this with a bunch of products ripe for spamming: instapot review, nvidia 3070 review, and Apple Watch review, and the first page results were almost entirely reputable.

I also tried “huggies vs pampers pull ups” and the result is quite a good variety of forum threads, blogs, and reputable articles. “Quasar formation” leads to Wikipedia, but also academic articles and astronomy.com. “How beer is made” is even better quality.

Is most of the web junk? Have I gotten astronomically lucky in not finding it? Are these somehow the exceptions that prove the rule?

(Ironically I think my search terms caused this comment to be flagged as spam..!)

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by fossuser on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:22PM (#26546378)
The results are better when the products are more common/famous (Nvidia card, instapot) since there will likely be reviews from The Verge or something that rank highly.

It's less common stuff that tends to give you mostly crap.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ecf on Monday March 22, 2021 @05:39PM (#26547558)
> Interesting web content is in Reddit

I’ve found this to no longer be the case after Reddit has starting doing nefarious tricks with the date of a post.

For example, I’ll click on a link in Google showing it’s from last week when in reality the post is 2 years old.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by samvher on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:35PM (#26544840)
I haven't heard of Axios before - how would you characterize it? Looking at the website I can't quite tell if it's an aggregator or how they generate content, and if there is any particular leaning to what they host.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ckolkey on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:38PM (#26544886)
They write their own content. It's a site who's focus is short, concise stories.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by markogresak on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @08:02AM (#26554021)
I get better “ Product vs. Product” and “Product Review” results with ddg these days.

Once I took the time to read one of the sites and it’s obvious it’s generated content, and awful at that. I still reading pros and cons of one of the product and the same thing was mentioned under both, just with different wording.

GPT-3 or similar is going to make this way worse.

The only time I still use google (via !g on ddg, what an awesome feature) is to search for local info or in native language. But even here ddg is getting better, especially if I append the name of my city or country.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by anitil on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:12PM (#26550200)
> Google exists as a tool to search Reddit

I didn't realize that I'd migrated over to this. All my searches now are 'xxx reddit' or 'xxx stackoverflow'

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by D13Fd on Monday March 22, 2021 @10:20PM (#26550256)
I tend to do that too. But for product reviews, I am certain that the fake review problem will hit Reddit soon, if it hasn't already. This technique is way too common, and manufacturers are going to start including Reddit in their fake-review spam just like they do with Amazon reviews.

It's only a matter of time.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by yjftsjthsd-h on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:35PM (#26550795)
Something that might help is that reddit has voting, so astroturfing requires fooling users which lots of blogspam wouldn't.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by D13Fd on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:47AM (#26551531)
The problem with that is that upvotes can be faked too.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by teawrecks on Monday March 22, 2021 @07:10PM (#26548703)
"Most of the rest of the web is junk."

That's true. But out amongst that is the result you actually wanted that google doesn't have any incentive to lead you to.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by hunter-gatherer on Monday March 22, 2021 @11:09PM (#26550575)
Indeed. Everything now is "the best <insert search query> in <insert current year>". Shit had gotten ridiculous.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by georgiecasey on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:06PM (#26544399)
I wouldn't object to all product review searches to be Google ads now because it's all spammed anyway
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by bick_nyers on Monday March 22, 2021 @02:09PM (#26544446)
Quora can be good too, my go to is usually "question reddit", and if that is not sufficient then "question quora". Quora is spammy too though, so it is hit or miss, but when it hits, it hits good.
Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by ddingus on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:28AM (#26551435)
A lot of us Quorans were putting real insight there. Seriously. First few years was amazing.

As they wound down the top writer program, which is really where the "hits good" seeds are, they decided to pay people to ask questions.

Signal to noise ratio began to trend toward unfavorable. But traffic shot right up!

There have been other decisions contributing to the Quora we see today, but the paid questions really had the most impact in my view.

That said, yeah. There is still a lot of high value contributions to Quora. They are just a little harder to find now.

One thing I feel they missed the boat on was the credits system. Early on one could accumulate those and use them as a sort of currency. I "spent" some of my pile asking specific people for insight and it worked out well. I had others do the same with me.

Basically, one could get to a domain or subject expert and the site was still "family", so it would lead to a high value exchange.

For a little while, their text question UI hinted at what a Quora could be. Well connected Quorans could toss a question in via SMS and get solid responses back, sometimes quickly.

(Came down to follower counts, writer status, and a few other things)

These options were not abused much that I could tell and they hinted at a means to query people without draining said people, and or everyone participating having some give and take.

Was a fleeting moment, but one I ponder from time to time.

I would subscribe to a "group" that has the UX and overall dynamics of something like what I just described right.

Re:In 2020, two thirds of Google searches ended without a click by Mrnothing_ on Monday March 22, 2021 @04:00PM (#26546055)
I hate quora don't have a report for spam sell