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Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by fossuser on Thursday February 11, 2021 @01:07PM (#26105005)
The fan also sucks compared to something like a Vornado.

"Buffeting" of air is not a practical issue when using a fan - you want a fan that can create a lot of air flow.

The Dyson fan comes across form first then making up reasons to explain the form retroactively. It feels like an interesting look is the goal rather than something that's actually better.

Am I wrong about this? Do people that have the fan like it? Is it better? I've only played with one in a store, but haven't owned one myself. I have owned Vornado fans which I liked.

Another one that comes to mind is the Molekule air filter which is basically fraud.

Large HEPA filters work, people should use them.

My favorite: https://medifyair.com/

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by alasdair_ on Thursday February 11, 2021 @02:02PM (#26105698)
We bought a Dyson fan when we had very small children that liked to stick their fingers into moving fan blades. It works really well for that purpose.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by WiseWeasel on Thursday February 11, 2021 @02:37PM (#26106072)
They’d probably only do it once. It builds character, similar to == in JS or PHP.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by dwaite on Thursday February 11, 2021 @02:45PM (#26106166)
They'd probably do it no more than ten times.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by hnick on Thursday February 11, 2021 @07:11PM (#26109317)
I just feel bad for all the kids who won't feel the joy of talking into a fan and making a funny voice :(
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by m463 on Friday February 12, 2021 @02:01AM (#26111329)
too many things have been lost or gimped.

Chemistry sets, m-80s, model rockets, playgrounds, coaster brakes, whatever kids did before "play dates" and anything intricate with small parts.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by danielbarla on Friday February 12, 2021 @06:10AM (#26112412)
There were probably too many things lost from "our" (n-1th generation) childhood too. Things like marveling at the first TVs, playing with unspent WW2 ammunition, etc. I'm sure each generation has its own things that they miss and think are detrimental to have lost, however I'm not sure that overall it's worse for the current generation. Hard to say. Growing up, I certainly would have loved having near infinite amounts of programming help available for free, instead of trying to decipher something from a 50-times photocopied manual. I guess some things get better, some worse, change is the only constant.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by metiscus on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:01AM (#26113159)
>Growing up, I certainly would have loved having near infinite amounts of programming help available for free, instead of trying to decipher something from a 50-times photocopied manual.

Would you be as good of a programmer today if that was true? I remember spending an entire week trying to figure out how strings worked in QBASIC, when I was in 5th grade. There was no internet and I only had the Apple IIGS Basic manual to work with. I tried and tried and tried and eventually figured out that it had something to do with those $ symbols. Eventually I got the hang of it. I guess the point is, that challenge and struggle with simple things helped me develop the attitude to overcome truly difficult things later. Maybe this is more just memories of childhood than anything..

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by danielbarla on Saturday February 13, 2021 @03:31AM (#26122252)
Fair point. Though who knows, it's hard/impossible to say. For some individuals, it might have been positive, for others, perhaps negative. Overall however, I would not say that today's programmers are of worse quality, on average. (It's hard to compare however, as clearly we have a 10/20/30 year experience gap over them.)
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by wegs on Saturday February 13, 2021 @08:14AM (#26123426)
It ebbs and flows. There was a low point in the late nineties and early 2000's:

* Windows 95 removed all thought of the user as a programmer, killing things like QBasic.

* Apple was doing likewise, even killing Hypercard.

* The web wasn't in its prime yet, limited to HTML 2.0 and 3.2, and really lousy JavaScript.

* Even electronics was tough, since DIP parts were being replaced with SMT, and the service manual was starting to become a relic, but things like Arduino and RPi didn't exist yet, and making PCBs was $$$$$.

* Shop classes were on the decline in schools, but makerspaces weren't in yet.

I feel bad for kids growing up then. Short of installing a Linux distribution, kids were left out in the cold for being anything other than consumers of technology.

There was really a golden age in the eighties and early nineties, and we seem to be in another golden age right now.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by thr0w__4w4y on Sunday February 14, 2021 @07:10PM (#26137557)
Familiar with all in your list, plus I'd like to add a few:

Lawn darts, BB guns, wrist rockets, bottle rockets (I know you said M-80s, I had those too, but bottle rockets could be shot at friends), can of WD-40 (with requisite red straw) plus a lighter, backyard archery set.

Love you Mom and Dad! 70s were great!

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by mumblemumble on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:54AM (#26113626)
Side note: "nerfed" is preferable to "gimped".

One uses the name of a toy in a derogatory manner, the other is a straight-up derogatory term for a group of people.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by m463 on Saturday February 13, 2021 @12:53AM (#26121722)
I've only heard it in the software sense of intentionally restricted, but you're right - nerfed is better.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by MingLEnF on Sunday February 14, 2021 @03:55PM (#26136187)
I guess you haven't had chance to join a conference call (Zoom, BlueJeans, Hangouts ...) where someone has a fan running in their relative vicinity?

At first I also didn't know why is one of colleagues sounding "weird" - never would've thought they had their fan running, until one product manager asked "Hey X, do you have a fan running nearby?"

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by Cthulhu_ on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:46AM (#26113553)
Instead, they get apps that can change their voice and face in thousands of ways.

I mean I get the "born in the wrong generation" vibe, but at the same time it's easy to get blinkered and not realize what came instead. In a LOT of ways, they (and we) were born in the RIGHT generation.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by latexr on Friday February 12, 2021 @09:44AM (#26114120)
Part of the fun in the fan is discovering the accidental feature. You play with it and transform what it can do, unconstrained (except by natural laws).

With an app, you’re using a tool for its intended purpose. There’s little joy in discoverability because you’re following the rules the developer set.

That’s why the fan can be more fun; it’s not generational. The fun is in exploring a novel feature in something you though you thoroughly understood.

When the novelty is over with the app, you delete it (was the hour of fun worth getting your data mined?) and return to the boredom (find the next app). With the fan, you simply stop and it continues to be useful. Without you taking deliberate action, everything returns to the way it was. Except for your mind, which metaphorically expanded and wants to see what else can be used in creative ways.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by Cerium on Thursday February 11, 2021 @02:59PM (#26106342)
I sure did it more than ten times, but quickly learned to be careful and insert the finger slowly into the moving fan.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by edelans on Thursday February 11, 2021 @03:34PM (#26106741)
I'm afraid you missed the joke here =)
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by jodrellblank on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:15PM (#26108122)
I can't tell if they missed the joke about losing 10 fingers and having to stop there, or if you missed their joke that you can insert the same finger multiple times as long as you only lose a bit of a finger each time.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by adolph on Thursday February 11, 2021 @09:00PM (#26109992)
All the above forgot toes
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by abiogenesis on Thursday February 11, 2021 @11:54PM (#26110864)
Those are not fingers (at least not in English).
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by jodrellblank on Friday February 12, 2021 @04:22PM (#26118693)
This chain has got me wondering how we count in base 10, but we don't have 10 fingers instead 8 fingers and 2 thumbs. Maybe we have 10 digits, but digits can be fingers or toes so we really have 20 digits.

Is there a word in English which exclusively means hand-digits or fingers+thumbs or digits-toes?

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by efreak on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:46PM (#26120720)
Because people don't usually don't on their toes? It's easier to bring your hands into view than your feet.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by injidup on Friday February 12, 2021 @01:34AM (#26111246)
In German we have "hand shoes" for gloves :)
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by konart on Friday February 12, 2021 @01:37AM (#26111257)
You just broke my mind Russian mind.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by m463 on Friday February 12, 2021 @02:02AM (#26111330)
in spanish aren't fingers and toes interchangeable?
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by bryanrasmussen on Friday February 12, 2021 @05:04AM (#26112072)
they're actually interchangeable anywhere as long as you have a talented surgeon.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by kovac on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:50PM (#26110572)
If you are really committed, you should be able to go up to at least 20 :)
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by bayindirh on Thursday February 11, 2021 @03:41PM (#26106837)
In some extreme cases they can go up to ~20. But after 25, it becomes really a corner case.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by smileysteve on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:53PM (#26108538)
Assuming now tongues, toes, or ears.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by jb1991 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @03:01PM (#26106366)
Says no one who has ever raised kids.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by Judgmentality on Thursday February 11, 2021 @03:14PM (#26106526)
Plenty of people raise their kids this way. When I see parents laugh when their kids fall down instead of panic, I smile. And the best part? The kids smile too, because they're actually looking to their parents for how to react.

I'd rather raise daredevils than anxious wrecks. My best friend has a kid who's always climbing on stuff, falling down, getting hurt. That kid is going to grow up to be awesome.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by tw04 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @07:10PM (#26109315)
Plenty of people need to rethink their parenting then. I laugh when my kid falls down.

I scream when I saw my kid trying to stick a key into an electrical outlet, and I screamed when I saw my kid trying to put a finger into a vornado fan.

Modern fans aren't the same as the box fans we grew up with. And adult would likely walk away with an emergency room bill and a bunch of stiches. A small child would likely lose a finger.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by brmgb on Thursday February 11, 2021 @08:05PM (#26109696)
If it makes you sleep better, most household fans are designed to not severe fingers. They use plastic blades (please don't buy household fans with steel blades) which are both light and dull. You might break it but a major cut is highly unlikely.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by saurik on Thursday February 11, 2021 @08:11PM (#26109724)
Yeah... if anything I would have said the opposite: I remember when fans were made of metal or at least had sharp plastic blades. Now, everything's designed for some combination of cheap construction and liability reduction. (And, also, feels a bit more "disposable"... the fans my parents had when I was a kid were designed to be taken apart to fully clean, and I do remember taking them apart and running them without the covers as I was "one of those" kids ;P but I think I'm just expected to throw these plastic fans I have away if they get dusty?...) I just purposefully stuck my pinky finger into my fan on fully speed and it didn't even hurt. (I guess I'll admit that the Vornado on the other side of the room looks a bit more intimidating, but I'm not sure I could actually get my finger into it anyway... the one where I succeeded was actually really hard as, despite my fingers being pretty slender and long, I could barely find an angle where I could touch the blade.)
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by StillBored on Friday February 12, 2021 @10:38AM (#26114815)
Ever stuck your finger in a fan with a metal blade?

I have, know what happened? Nothing.

I have a couple 80-100 year old GE fans. Putting your finger in the front doesn't do anything but push it out. Which makes sense if you look at the shape of the blades. The side and back are a little scarier, but i'm guessing unless you really jab it in fast, or get unlucky in some way the worse that will happen is some scraped up skin. They are definitely not _designed_ to sever fingers, for that you need a tablesaw. And none of them have enough rotating mass or HP that you can't stick your finger in the back and actually stop them by keeping your finger against the blades as they try and push your finger.

So, I'm not saying it cant happen, but your kid probably has a greater chance of losing a finger in your car door, or various other places like that before you have to worry about the fans. If you want to experiment with this find something approximating a finger and give it a try, maybe the woody bits of a leftover piece of asparagus.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by finnh on Friday February 12, 2021 @10:51AM (#26114950)
I have a scar from a poorly-stitched cut on my finger from a "vintage" fan. I wasn't trying to stick my finger in it; i was absentmindedly directing it away from me and my finger apparently missed the cage and interacted instead with the blade!

Glad I still have that finger. It didn't feel particularly close to being severed, it just cut to the bone and then pushed my finger out of the way. Kinda NBD, but ER visits to teaching hospitals are always annoyingly slow...

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by kwdc on Friday February 12, 2021 @02:08AM (#26111354)
> designed to not sever fingers

Where is the fun in that? I say sharpen the blades and make it a real teaching moment.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by tremon on Friday February 12, 2021 @07:10AM (#26112801)
Only the worst teachers teach by maiming.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by flak on Saturday February 13, 2021 @09:02AM (#26123634)
This is debatable I think
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by efreak on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:49PM (#26120734)
As a side effect, it's probably also more efficient.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by alasdair_ on Friday February 12, 2021 @09:34PM (#26120907)
At least at learning the lesson "did my teacher have anything at all to do with this? If they did, I'm not getting anywhere near it because that person is a fucking psycho."
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by rmason on Thursday February 11, 2021 @09:56PM (#26110279)
I watched my dad putting on a rubber glove to pull out a single prong from a broken plug stuck in an electrical outlet. I was perhaps 2-2.5 years old. I asked why he needed the glove. My Dad with his wry Irish humor said it was to get a strong grip.

I told him that I thought I could do it without the glove. He told me to give it a try and I did. What I did was promptly fall on my ass and that's how I learned the power of electricity.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by alasdair_ on Friday February 12, 2021 @09:38PM (#26120917)
Was your dad actually Irish, or was he from America? The Irish use 240V and that shit will kill you.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by rmason on Sunday February 14, 2021 @03:47PM (#26136115)
Dad was an American but strongly identified as Irish. He said my great grandfather who I never knew spoke with an Irish brogue.

When I was 16 I was working on my ham radio's linear amplifier. I was certain that I had shorted all the capacitors but one still held a charge and once again with much more force knocked me on my ass.

For days I could see the line up my arm where the electricity travelled. After that I always grounded the capacitors three times just to be sure!

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by mPReDiToR on Saturday February 13, 2021 @07:41AM (#26123275)
As posted above, I had 240v as a child. Twice in my life I've had 240v,it hurts, but not fatal.

At least, not so far. I don't plan on finding out if it really is "third time lucky" lol

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by brian_cunnie on Thursday February 11, 2021 @11:14PM (#26110670)
I didn't put a key in an electrical outlet, but in Paris when I was a kid I was having trouble sticking the plug in the 220V outlet so I held it tight by the prongs & plugged it in & boy did that feel weird. I never did that again.

I never told my parents about it because I would have gotten yelled at.

At camp we put crickets on the electric fence, but nothing happened to them, so I grabbed the electric fence, and that was a powerful jolt. I never did that again, either.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by mPReDiToR on Friday February 12, 2021 @07:05AM (#26112772)
Some childhood anecdotes...

One xmas when I was less than 5yo I jammed a knife into our 240v socket and blew the fuse on the Electricity Board side of the fusebox. They had to send an engineer out to turn the power on so we could continue cooking the turkey.

The other is from a sibling comment. With primary school, 10 years old, we went to the Lake District and were introduced to electeic fences by everyone holding hands with the person next to them, and the teacher explaining that he would touch the wire with the back of his hand to avoid muscle contraction. Because I was "that kid" I was placed at the far end of the chain, where I assume it tingled more. That was fun.

We used to put PP9 batteries on our tongues for tingles. Just for fun.

I do recall dangerously letting .22 blanks off with a brick and a piece of brick making an entry and exit wound through the outside fleshy part of my hand. Couldn't let mum know that I was even bleeding in case she asked why!

Touching the wires hanging out of the wall where the clock hung was fab, until I flew across the room and sat on the sofa unexpectedly. You really do learn respect for insulation at this point.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by MrYellowP on Saturday February 13, 2021 @05:06PM (#26127424)
> until I flew across the room

What? Why?

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by efreak on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:54PM (#26120764)
We had a broken arcade game at after-school, every so often someone would bump it and someone would have to reach around and push the switch that wasn't properly covered by the backboard in order to turn it back on. I reached around without looking one day and shocked myself. Today, it surprises me that it was using enough current to be noticable, and that it only needed to be pressed to turn on, not stay on.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by eric-hu on Friday February 12, 2021 @12:59AM (#26111121)
Wait you went to a summer camp with an electrified fence? Is that common?
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by Johnythree on Friday February 12, 2021 @01:26AM (#26111214)
Very common in rural areas. Electric fences are cheap and easy to relocate.

But these are not the lethal electric fences that you see in trashy science fiction movies.

These are specially designed to put out a high voltage pulse which gives a nasty bite, but is basically harmless.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by dagw on Friday February 12, 2021 @03:04AM (#26111596)
Sure I assume so, certainly ones I've been to. I mean the camp obviously wasn't using electric fences to keep the kids in, but the surrounding farmers where using electric fences to keep their cattle/horses/sheep out of the summer camp.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by MingLEnF on Sunday February 14, 2021 @04:04PM (#26136256)
As a kid - I've put two really long (sweater sewing) needles into power outlet.

I guess luckily I hit earth/ground with one of them - since we had differential (RCD) circuit breaker(s) installed it just shut off electricity in the apartment.

If I managed to hit both into real live and neutral - the differential breaker wouldn't have done a thing, and I wouldn't be typing this.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by jiveturkey on Friday February 12, 2021 @10:30AM (#26114695)
it’s ok to stick a thing in an outlet. you get a minor jolt that’s it. licking the terminals of a 9V battery (a dare we did as kids) is worse.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by jb1991 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:22PM (#26108204)
Falling down is totally different than sticking your fingers into a fan.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by semi-extrinsic on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:31PM (#26108295)
Well, for both cases the risk depends entirely on the (here unspecified) circumstances. Sticking your fingers in a fan where the blades have a low moment of inertia and the motor has low stall torque? You'll be fine. Falling down and hitting your head on the edge of a rock? Could put you in hospital for weeks.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by VRay on Thursday February 11, 2021 @03:38PM (#26106805)
Yeah, if the kid grows up he'll be awesome for sure
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by Judgmentality on Thursday February 11, 2021 @03:43PM (#26106865)
Would you rather take a chance at greatness, or a certainty at mediocrity?

No guts no glory.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by catmanjan on Thursday February 11, 2021 @04:17PM (#26107344)
Surely laughing when your child falls over leads to them enjoying others misfortunes
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by adolph on Thursday February 11, 2021 @09:08PM (#26110040)
No it’s a cognitive framing thing. The concept is to make a toddlers tumbles into not a big deal for them. I think it is also in part an overreaction to the common “oh you poor baby” response which is thought to encourage children to be upset when they fall. I favor the Montessori guide approach of observing|ignoring and giving a kid a chance to make up their own mind to ask for help or deal with it themselves. The optimal approach probably depends on the kid.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by Judgmentality on Thursday February 11, 2021 @04:28PM (#26107522)
I think you're assuming the laughter is at the child, not with the child. It's laughing about a mistake because that's what makes us human.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by catmanjan on Thursday February 11, 2021 @04:41PM (#26107693)
Do children understand that nuance? I would have thought they would associate people falling with laughing
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by harperlee on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:00PM (#26107962)
When I pick up my children from a small fall, and I laugh belittling the hit, they do not feel mocked at, instead laughing with me. I think the kind of insecurity that makes you suspect that people are laughing at you comes later - and if you don't have crappy parents you don't even come close to suspecting that your parents might be laughing at you...

Obviously you don't laugh with big falls and broken arms.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by catmanjan on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:07PM (#26108037)
But when your children are with their friends, and their friends fall over, do they laugh? Maybe their friends aren't as confident
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by harperlee on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:28PM (#26108267)
They are still very young.

But from my own childhood I can remember that kids are not subtle - if they are mocking you, you will know (names, finger-pointing, jokes, etc.). Whereas if a friend laughs with you about a silly fall, you get a completely different kind of scenario played out.

Coming back to your initial point, and being blunt: showing your children that clumsy falls can be funny, and not to panic about them, does not increase their cruelty towards other kids.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by thekingofravens on Thursday February 11, 2021 @04:47PM (#26107787)
They aren't dogs. They understand a lot more than you would expect.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by lumost on Thursday February 11, 2021 @09:27PM (#26110138)
Very young children mirror the emotions of their caregivers. Generally if you laugh they will think that it's time to laugh, if you are concerned they will think it's time for them to be concerned. Very young children don't really understand what to do when they are concerned, and so they cry hoping that their caregivers will focus on them and make things better.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by avesi on Friday February 12, 2021 @12:09PM (#26115857)
Yeah, I think there's a middle ground between teaching a child to laugh at injuries and immediately having a protective, sensitive reaction. Personally, I tell my son, "You okay, bud?" in a positive tone and wait to see whether he needs comfort or is ready to get back to playing.

Everyone parents differently. I would be interested to see which culture the "laughing" reaction parents come from.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by flak on Saturday February 13, 2021 @09:12AM (#26123683)
Dunno, I've known lots of kids - later adults - who had fallen on their heads a few too many times. Most of them - not that "awesome"
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by picks_at_nits on Thursday February 11, 2021 @06:13PM (#26108789)
It really does depend upon the consequences of failure. Naturally, I want my children to learn to laugh at themselves when they fall off a bike.

In my case, I taught them this by laughing at myself when I fall off my bike, so I am modelling the outcome I want--them learning to try things, fail, and laugh--rather than some kind of "do as i say" style of parenting.

But even falling off bikes can have an unacceptable worst case. So we insist on helmets. It is bad parenting to allow undeveloped brains to suffer avoidable and entirely foreseeable concussions when reasonable precautions like proper protective gear exists.

I think that sums up our parenting approach: Model the risk tolerance we want to encourage, including both taking risks and managing the consequences intelligently.

After that, it's up to them.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by Spivak on Thursday February 11, 2021 @03:58PM (#26107057)
I mean you can tell you kid 100 times not to touch the stove but they don't lean the lesson until they actually try once when you're not looking.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by HeWhoLurksLate on Thursday February 11, 2021 @08:22PM (#26109789)
...or they notice that the thing is red and radiates heat and decide not to touch it because it looks scary
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by flak on Saturday February 13, 2021 @09:17AM (#26123704)
That's usually not enough when they're really wrong and it's their first time touching a hot stove /pot.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by ekianjo on Thursday February 11, 2021 @07:30PM (#26109453)
You seem to assume that everything was 100% safe in previous generations. Actually it was not the case, and you don't see many 60 years old crippled by domestic accidents when they were small kids, do you?
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by sroussey on Thursday February 11, 2021 @09:31PM (#26110155)
No, they died.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by ekianjo on Monday February 15, 2021 @06:25AM (#26141672)
Laughable theory since that would assume every domestic accident results in fatalities which is not the case.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by sroussey on Thursday February 11, 2021 @09:30PM (#26110150)
We have parrots, and don’t want them to die the first time.

We need a fan, and optional air filter. Not sure what other options there are...

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by IgorPartola on Thursday February 11, 2021 @02:41PM (#26106129)
strcpy() has entered the chat.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by froh on Friday February 12, 2021 @01:03AM (#26111139)
malloc, free and their little pointers snicker from behind a curtain.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by IgorPartola on Friday February 12, 2021 @07:21AM (#26112890)
I haven’t had as much trouble with those as they mostly do what it says on the tin. strcpy(), sprintf(), etc. all have slightly different semantics and even their “n” versions will do funky things if you don’t very carefully account for null termination. I find it way harder to use those because I have to keep remembering which of them does what regarding \0 at the end. And I guess now we have strlcpy() which is supposed to fix those issues but isn’t available on all platforms I use.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by SamBam on Thursday February 11, 2021 @03:06PM (#26106410)
We have two cheap, basic standing fans with the standard wire guard around them.

At various ages we wondered if the kids could put their fingers in and touch the blades, and so prompted them to (while the fans were off, of course).

At no point could the kids' fingers get to the blades. Either their fingers were too short, or, eventually, too fat.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by itsoktocry on Thursday February 11, 2021 @03:28PM (#26106672)
Yeah, I'm skeptical that any reasonably new fan under modern safety standards could a) allow children's fingers to reach in to the blade, or b) do any real damage if they can reach it. The idea that it's a Dyson or fingers get chopped off is funny. But I guess people have to justify spending $500 on a fan.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by treeman79 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @07:09PM (#26109298)
Grandma had an old metal fan. I learned the hard way a few of the protective wires were missing. Not so fun times.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by Angostura on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:33PM (#26108312)
I bet they could get pencils in there though. I Know I did.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by toast0 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:46PM (#26108461)
newer fans have much tighter spacing on the guards. Of course, plastic is still plastic, so 10 year old fans that had tighter spacing are going to have lots of broken off sections so you can make cool noises with the fan and [other objects]
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by fossuser on Thursday February 11, 2021 @02:27PM (#26105973)
Nice - yeah that sounds like a great use case for it.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by krrrh on Thursday February 11, 2021 @04:15PM (#26107307)
I have one that we keep in our daughters nursery. The thing I like most is that it can run in auto mode and night mode meaning that it’s on all the time and the fan only runs from level 1-4 out of 10, which also means silent operation. It has a sensor for air particle and VOC that causes it to turn up. It seems to work (like if I fluff pillows or make the bed beside it it will detect a spike in particulates on the graph around that time. So, set and forget, silent operation, and safety for small fingers made it the best choice for us despite tests showing lower efficacy over a defined time frame.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by hedora on Thursday February 11, 2021 @04:21PM (#26107422)
We recently bought the giant one with the ridiculously high CADR. They removed the air quality sensor (covid parts shortage?), so there's no auto mode for that model, at least. :-(

It's noisier than expected, but on low it's quiet enough and fine for our entire house during "normal" bad pollution days (PM 2.5 between 100 and 300). During severe smoke from wildfires (PM 2.5 > 300), I'm OK with it being noisy.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by mfkp on Thursday February 11, 2021 @06:42PM (#26109065)
Pro-tip: Medify sells factory refurbished units will full lifetime warranty for 50% off via ebay: https://www.ebay.com/sch/medifyair/m.html
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by aqfamnzc on Friday February 12, 2021 @02:07AM (#26111353)
As well as... Vintage trading cards!?
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by mfkp on Friday February 12, 2021 @02:42AM (#26111485)
1986 Jordan worth some money ;-)
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by disillusioned on Friday February 12, 2021 @12:19AM (#26110978)
These are some fair critiques. I like the form of the Dyson + Heat I have (not an air filter), but more importantly, I like that it's constantly drawing in air and sampling the temperature much more accurately than a typical space heater which is basically just hoping the bi-metallic strip eventually flips the thermo off. The Dyson seems to do a really good job of holding a fairly consistent temperature, plus it looks cool.

But I got my refurbed on Woot for like, $100, not the $450 brand new they wanted, which is lunacy.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by bostonsre on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:44PM (#26110546)
Their app and particulant metrics/ graphing are kind of neat and user friendly. And I don't know, it's furniture kind of. Some people buy expensive furniture because it looks nice, some because it's comfortable and some don't bother and just use a milk crate.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by dec0dedab0de on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:17PM (#26108143)
I had the dyson fan with the heater and filter for a short time, as well as a medify. I was disappointed with both, and returned them.

The dyson looked cool, but the heat function was kinda useless unless you sat right next to it. i might get another one without the heat.

The medify seemed to work well, but it felt like it was poorly made. I kept thinking I could probably diy something just as good. Though the main reason I returned it was because the advertising claimed it came with two sets of filters, when it only came with one.

I bought both of these last year after almost a decade of wanting to get an air filter, and not doing it. The whole industry feels like a scam. This is why I stopped shaving 20 years ago.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by zaphirplane on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:08AM (#26113205)
I consider the heating as warm the air in winter before blowing it on me (while filtering) not warm the room
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by dec0dedab0de on Friday February 12, 2021 @11:01AM (#26115057)
It my experience it actually warmed the room better than it warmed me. If I turned the fan up enough to make the air reach me it was cool air by the time it got to me. If I ran it on low it would slowly warm the room.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by flak on Saturday February 13, 2021 @09:21AM (#26123728)
Stopped shaving?
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by dec0dedab0de on Saturday February 13, 2021 @06:42PM (#26128153)
I was referencing a razor scheme. when you sell something cheap but the part you need to use it is locked down and expensive. Like the blades for a razor, or ink for a printer. Or filters for an air purifier.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by willis936 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @09:28PM (#26110140)
I like vornado, but it’s hard to find the analog potentiometer controlled ones these days. Almost all of them are three speed.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by jtdev on Thursday February 11, 2021 @09:47PM (#26110229)
I bought one of the U.S. made Vornado models last year and couldn’t be happier. Great unit, fair price for a quality product.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by zaphirplane on Friday February 12, 2021 @08:10AM (#26113227)
It should be sold with ear plug. Loud so loud
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by bluishgreen on Monday February 15, 2021 @02:43AM (#26140168)
I use it as a white noise machine, I find the particular noise it gives out to be calming. The heat is also nice, not biting. It could be after the fact rationalization for blowing 250$ on a 25$ equipment.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by victor106 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @01:22PM (#26105207)
Why is the medifyair your favorite? I wasn’t able to find any reviews I could trust on it.
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by fossuser on Thursday February 11, 2021 @01:26PM (#26105262)
I have a bunch of air filters (I live in the bay area during fire season).

Coway Air Mega

Coway Mighty

Blue Air

Medify Air

They're basically all equivalent and they all work.

The reason I like the Medifyair is because it can move the largest volume of air relative to those so it can clear a space quickly (and quietly). I also think it looks nice (though it is huge).

Of the rest, the Blue Air uses weird custom filters which I think cost a little more (though I haven't had to replace them yet). The Coway Mighty is also pretty small and mostly for a tiny room.

Relatedly, if you're interested in sensors I think the TemTop sensors are the best (I've tried a bunch of different ones, and a lot of them suck).

Some details on this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirQuality/comments/ikf1ed/are_ther...

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by hedora on Thursday February 11, 2021 @04:27PM (#26107508)
Wirecutter has a review of one of the Medifyair models. They don't recommend it because it's too big, and overkill for their test apartment in New York City. It had the highest CADR in their testing.

For a modest house in the Bay Area during fire season, we needed a high MERV furnace filter and also two filters similar to their recommended models, so I moved up to the Medifyair. It arrived after the last fires, but it seems to work extremely well.

Hopefully, we won't need it this year...

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by victor106 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @06:23PM (#26108883)
I am not sure if wirecutter reviews can be trusted anymore.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25993512

I like consumer reports. You pay money for subscription and they provide you a non biased review.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by chipotle_coyote on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:01PM (#26110314)
That's one example of a Wirecutter recommendation that goes against the prevailing wisdom. There are probably others, too -- but that doesn't necessarily mean all their reviews are somehow bad or tainted. You can find recommendations from Consumer Reports that run against the prevailing wisdom, too; I know I'm not alone in having thought in the past that there were some categories of products they were great with and other categories of products they were... not so great with.

I know the "you can never trust anyone who has affiliation links" argument, but if we follow that to its logical conclusion, Wirecutter should be strongly biased toward picks that give them the most money for referrals, and that's not really backed up by their choices. They pick cheaper choices pretty frequently, and it's possible to find picks where there's no apparent affiliate link at all, e.g., their pick for best "high-performance" subwoofer. One can posit, as was done in the thread you linked, that there might be deals directly with manufacturers that we don't know about, but "we can't be sure they're being underhanded without us knowing" doesn't actually get us anywhere useful -- the same could obviously be said about anyone, including CR.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by fossuser on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:40PM (#26110525)
Yeah - I generally agree with you.

In the review business it's better to be playing the long-term game if you're building a real audience. In Wirecutter's case their long term advantage is to make good reviews without regard to the affiliate payment.

There are already thousands of other websites that are just disguised ads. Wirecutter's differentiating features is that they don't do that.

They still have some reviews I think are pretty mediocre or products they chose that I think are bad, but generally I think they're worth looking at.

Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by yreg on Thursday February 11, 2021 @04:44PM (#26107731)
Why is Molekule a fraud?
Re:Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filt... by fossuser on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:14PM (#26108106)
See: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-air-purifier...

They make nonsense claims about their technology - none of which empirically hold up. They lie about it and are just generally full of shit, quoted below:

"In the summer of 2019, we purchased a Molekule Air (the flagship model) and tested it. We bought an Air Mini that fall and tested it in February 2020. At the time we tested the Molekule Air, the company claimed that its “scientifically-proven nanotechnology outperforms HEPA filters in every category of pollutant.”

Our tests proved otherwise. And by mid-2020, that language had been withdrawn, after many of the company’s claims were ruled against in a case before the National Advertising Division and upheld in a later appeal before the National Advertising Review Board. The Molekule Air turned in the worst performance on particulates of any purifier, of any size, of any price, that we have tested in the seven years that we have been producing this guide. The Air Mini outperformed it, but that’s not saying much: It still gave the second-worst performance we’ve ever seen.

Guide author Tim Heffernan asked Molekule CEO Dilip Goswami why the language was removed. He answered, “The point about ‘in all categories’ is that we see a device that outperforms across all of the categories. Right? So we’re not trying to say that individually, on any particular metric, we would be number one. Right? What we’re saying is, when you look across all the categories, we outperform HEPA. Right? And that’s what we’re attempting to convey with that. And so—it’s fair to say that we needed to re-examine some of the language to make sure that it’s saying what we’re intending to say.”

The NAD and NARB cases made clear that this was an understatement: All of Molekule’s quantified claims about the Air’s performance; all of its claims about superiority to HEPA; all of its customer and doctor testimonials about the ability of the Air’s filter to reduce asthma and allergy symptoms; and many of its claims to have been independently tested, were ruled unsupported. Other claims were ruled too broad."