This is the most apt, insightful description I've seen so far of what is evidently a growing problem for Amazon: more and more retail consumers no longer trust the merchandise being sold by Amazon.

I write this as a longtime Amazon Prime member who, recently, for the first time ever, decided to buy a relatively inexpensive product (filters for a fairly expensive espresso machine) from a bricks-and-mortar retailer instead of Amazon, because I could not trust that the products listed for sale on Amazon were genuine (as opposed to knock-offs) or even the right kind (made with the right kind of silicon).

Having found other retailers for those items, they now also benefit from other purchases. I haven't bought anything from Amazon for over two years.

I've also told my parents not to use Amazon for electronics. They won't notice if they get a counterfeit charger that could burn their house down. It's unlikely, but not worth a $2 saving.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/HelpCenter/USGrey.jsp

Just to be clear, the only thing that's really wrong with grey market products is they don't come with a warranty. The are the same exact products you get on the white market.

  grey market products

Most products come with 6 months-1 year warranty. So, let's say I buy a Samsung TV that breaks six months later due to a defect in manufacturing, Samsung will replace the TV for me under warranty if I bought it from a Samsung approved retailer, say Walmart. If I bought the same exact TV from a retailer unknown or unapproved by Samsung, they will say the warranty doesn't apply.

B&H gives their own warranty on grey market products to make up for it. So if you bought a grey market Samsung from B&H, Samsung's warranty wouldn't apply, but B&H's would.

>For IMP items only, B&H provides a warranty identical to the provisions and limitations of the manufacturer's warranty for such items, with the exception of the time period, which is equal to the term of the manufacturer's warranty or one (1) year, whichever is less.* Your dated B&H sales receipt is all you need to obtain warranty coverage from B&H for a "grey market" product purchased from us.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/05/the-wor...

You have expressed and implied warranty rights on products, regardless of what their actual warranty paperwork days.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/05/the-wor...

Some have, and have one. Though none that I know of were specifically for grey market products.

http://www.thefashionlaw.com/home/amazon-is-tricking-consume...

What I can't understand is this: even if they comingle, they must know which seller owns which item. If they didn't, how would they pay the right seller once a particular item is sold? And yet, there seems to be no accountability at all.

If someone clicks your listing and buys a product, they ship it from the commingled inventory and then pay you your share of the sale and deduct one from your inventory tally.

Then, if the item they sent ends up being counterfeit, whether from your own stock, from another seller, or even from Amazon's own stock, they will take it out on your seller account for selling counterfeits.

At least stores like Walmart (not counting their online which is a marketplace like Amazon) vet the in-store products.

They did accept it back though.

If another merchant is offering the same item on the listing I don't think it's possible to be certain. Does anyone know a way to be sure?

If FakeCo send 200 fake headphones to Amazon, co mingle, and Amazon have 800 genuine headphones:

80% of purchases from both Amazon and FakeCo will be genuine, and 20% fake. Amazon is effectively subsidising the counterfeiter and encourages legitimately good reviews for an entirely fraudulent supplier! If they're allocated to different warehouses then chances of fake may vary by which warehouse is nearest. In aggregate the effect is the same.

It's no wonder reviews are so often such a confusing and contradictory mess.

It's arguably wrecking intolerable damage to customer trust, the one thing that is supposed to be being held above all others there.

I fully support it, fuck fashion brands and their ridiculous manufactured exclusivity.

I mean, they still don't exactly know how to enforce copyright.

If I want nicer headphones I can go to a brick and mortar retailer (or their online counterpart) and get a selection of curtailed products from known brands provided by known suppliers with all the information about the products listed with a good search so I can compare. I have a choice but I don't have to slog through dozens of private label brands or poorly listed products with missing or incorrect descriptions/information. Or irrelevant products listed in the wrong product category.

If I go to Amazon I have to wade through pages of bad search results full of junky unsafe products from questionable sources (paradox of choice) with bad/missing information just to roll the dice that I don't get something counterfeit and/or unsafe.

What purpose does Amazon service now in this situation?

So for me, Amazon still offers a wide range of items and selection, many of which I would be hard pressed to find in a nearby B&M, and usually for cheaper (at least there are more price points to choose from). A recent example is some gold chainette fringe. I was actually in the fabric store and they had some but not enough, and I found a suitable replacement on Amazon for about 1/3 the price.

I'm not saying it's great that Amazon is allowing this stuff, my point was just that, even with the presence of some noise, it's still a quite useful service and it seems silly to act like it's "over."

What you apparently don't understand is that Amazon co-mingles inventory from everyone who ships them a particular product.

It doesn't matter if you buy an "Apple USB Power Adapter" from Amazon, Apple, or Shady McCounterfeiters. You get a random sample from the same pool of goods. And that pool of goods often contains counterfeit products (in this particular case, about 90% are counterfeit).

Basically, Best Buy doesn't just sell anything JoeBlow45 who created their account yesterday decides to dump on their site, they have real suppliers and they know what they are selling.

And the listings don't end up like this: https://www.amazon.com/Paper-Illusions-Hearthstone-Colored-W... it's a listing for wallpaper but the pictures are for a Grateful Dead plush and another picture is a Grateful Dead poster.

You might be surprised. Many big box sellers now include third party listings from anyone and everyone. I believe Best Buy discontinued this last year or so. But many still do. Newegg, Walmart, Sears, to name a few.

This has made me more bullish about non-Amazon e-commerce.

As an American company, and with so much power, and with the issue being so dispersed and untraceable, I imagine safety is not sufficient cause for regulation.

That such adapters are literally dangerous is clearly documented in Ken Shirrif's teardown:

http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pr...

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2016/10/apple-su...

http://www.businessinsider.com/majority-apple-accessories-am...

https://lifehacker.com/how-to-spot-a-counterfeit-apple-light...

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/lawsuit-amazon-s...

Amazon did in fact try to avoid shipping fake glasses, but some may have gone out.

I would also especially worry about cosmetics and baby products/toys and I hope nobody's buying power tools from Amazon. There was an article here on hacker news a couple weeks ago that mentioned a lady who was (partially?) blinded by an unsafe dog leash she bought on Amazon.

Edited for clarity

On Amazon, you can buy your trusted brand and not actually be getting that brand.

Granted, this happens at brick and mortar on occasion, but they generally have a relationship with most of their suppliers and it would be unwise to allow counterfeits through.

I ask because I recently started using Amazon since I moved to the UK and it's been fantastic. I haven't ran into any of these problems.

UK & EU law places the legal liability on the retailer not the manufacturer. You will be able to return long after our US friends have been told it's outside the return window.

Unfortunately UK seems to have accepted Amazon marketplace as platform rather than Amazon as retailer. "Sold by Amazon" should keep you within Sale of Goods Acts protection. Guardian have been running a few tests recently[0],[1].

Traditional large high street retailers will typically avoid this by checking you conform to safety standards and are genuine, before accepting you as a supplier. Then randomly checking until you eventually rate becoming a preferred or trusted supplier. So I have high trust of everywhere on the high street, even including Poundland.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/27/amazon-si... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/06/dangerous...

Thankfully, many places now price match with Amazon, so the need to use them is becoming less and less.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_13?url=search-alia...

I recently came across a case[1] where a set of Marshall headphones that usually retail at USD$249 were being sold at USD$96. Reviews seemed legit, but it wasn’t the first party seller.

I reached out to Marshall over Twitter, and it looks like something has been done, but how does a manufacturer police this without dedicated staff? Amazon is undermining its customers (both you & I, and its merchants) by seemingly ignoring this.

[1]: https://twitter.com/elithrar/status/1005606803118252032

It’s a shame that just about the only stores that don’t have this problem are target and Best Buy as they don’t have third party merchant results.

As for the UI, I agree on that. But Amazon's seller UI is a nightmare as well. Many listing features don't even have a UI and require a huge bloated Excel file upload.

I have to disagree with you on that. I've personally not had an issue seeing who the seller is, and to double check I went to Amazon, clicked on the very first thing, a moon lamp, and it clearly stated right under in-stock, who it was sold by and that it was being fulfilled by Amazon.

The fact that you even have to be that careful is a bad customer experience.

Regardless, would a business want to sell on Amazon if they were treated second?

> The fact that you even have to be that careful is a bad customer experience.

This we can agree on, ideally Amazon would go through some evaluation process to determine that a seller is legitimate. Instead as far as I know they just let user reviews decide.

Side note though, Amazon really needs some competition. I can't recall the last time I bought anything online (that needed to be shipped) that wasn't through Amazon. For example, I used to buy computer parts from sites like Newegg, but unless there's a particularly good deal I'm probably going to Amazon. Clothing? Amazon. I don't want to have Levis and Hanes shipped separately.

Amazon is the Walmart of online retailers.

Ebay Stores have been around forever, and Walmart and others have now also entered the third-party marketplace game.

But you can buy the same questionable goods they all peddle by buying directly from Alibaba and saving yourself the reseller markup. Shipping just takes longer.