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Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by mnkypete on Thursday May 10, 2018 @10:55AM (#17039356)
Um.. I'm not sure the article author is familiar with the fact that "Skype for business" (the "complex" one) is actually home grown and was just rebranded from Lync. This is not at all the same as the consumer Skype, which actually tries to be a weird mixup between Snapchat and whatnot at the moment (failing utterly of course). Skype for Business (+ PSTN calling) is actually pretty great on Office 365 tbh...
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by gambiting on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:04AM (#17039463)
I work at a large corporation where we use Skype For Business and I swear, this is probably the worst piece of software I have ever used. They can't get basic things right - I can send a message to my coworker right now, and it will appear in the list of messages on his machine somewhere in between past messages. For a while, we had someone who couldn't receive any attachments, skype would just say "failed sending" - we had an actual Level 3 tech support from MS remote over to his machine to find out the issue, it was some broken registry settings. Selecting and copying text is a lottery - sometimes it will copy exactly what you highlighted, sometimes it won't - which is bizzare for an IM program. And then there's the conferencing, oh my god the conferencing. If you are in a conference room and someone left another account logged in with skype open, then no other user on that pc can make/receive calls - the only way to fix it is to restart the machine. I honestly can't believe we're paying money for this thing.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by Someone1234 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:39AM (#17039852)
Skype for Business is actually being deprecated and replaced with Microsoft Teams[0].

Microsoft Teams is impressive that it actually manages to have a worse desktop client than Skype for Business, and the web site is barely any better. If people on O365 haven't used it, they should since Microsoft will force it on you sooner or later.

It is like Microsoft wanted to clone a bunch of popular services (e.g. Slack) and just mashed them all together without a care in the world, and to top it off had to make a bad UWP desktop application that needed touch support so they cut 90% of common features to fit in enough voidspace into the UI for touch.

[0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoftteams/faq-journey

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by aendruk on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:07PM (#17040155)
I feel compelled reiterate to the world how astonishingly bad Teams is. We've been using it since its release and some days I'm convinced that there must be some internal management issue causing employees to deliberately sabotage the product.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by thoughtpalette on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:39PM (#17040482)
Honestly I've found Teams to be preferential to Skype. The Screen Share features works heads over heels better than Skypes. Though It'd be 10x better with the standard Unicode Emoji set and having URLs to Online Meeting's like Skype.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by zip1234 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @03:45PM (#17042330)
It's fine. If they made it a lot faster it would be decent.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by zip1234 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @03:46PM (#17042340)
Actually, I forgot about attachments and sharing. Those are not great either.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by DrPhish on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:57AM (#17040049)
I agree completely with your assessment. I used to gripe about SfB, but Teams is hilariously bad. Off the top of my head:

   -200MB minimum memory usage whether you use the desktop app or in a browser. Usually much more

   -Animated GIFs animate FOREVER with no way to turn them off, except by turning them off for everyone in your entire organization

   -Attachments fail constantly

   -Randomly takes over your SfB chats/calls

   -Can't have more than 19 people in a chat channel at once

   -Bots only work in the unintuitive, threaded "Teams" part that no one seems to grok, not the chat part that everyone actually uses
However I do like the ability to add random onenotes etc to channels, and to be fair it has been getting better, albeit slowly
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by yakk0 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:15PM (#17040230)
Teams does something much better than SfB. It keeps IMs in sync between clients and devices. If I reply to an IM on my phone in SfB it stays on my phone. There's no way to get that conversation history onto my desktop client. Teams acts like you would expect and all clients get all the history.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by StringyBob on Friday May 11, 2018 @02:15AM (#17045285)
Yes SfB's biggest problem is that it has skype in the name so people try to use it as an instant messenger.

It's ok for audio/video, but an abomination for instant messages - almost spitefully bad for text based communication due to the way it randomly redirects messages within a conversation to e.g. Outlook.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by coredog64 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:15PM (#17040227)
Add to that "crappy search" and "scrolling back through history results in long delays during which the entire display is blanked".
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by Klathmon on Thursday May 10, 2018 @01:26PM (#17041011)
- Has their own poorly written markdown-WYSIWYG hibrid thing that often puts what i'm writing into some state where I need to clear out the whole message and start over.

- Butchers 2-factor auth on mobile and often puts you into a neverending authentication loop (sending tens of text messages if your second factor is setup like that)

- notifications that never clear unless you click on the channel, scroll to the "unread" message, and wait for a few seconds.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by rhizome on Thursday May 10, 2018 @01:17PM (#17040880)
It is like Microsoft wanted to clone a bunch of popular services (e.g. Slack) and just mashed them all together without a care in the world

The LinkedIn Model.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by fhood on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:20AM (#17039632)
I can not agree with you more. Skype for business has is an unmitigated disaster of a piece of software and whatever team is in charge of it needs to be fired or relocated so that Microsoft can start over on it.

Skype for business is so insultingly bad that it is pretty much the only piece of widely used software that I am willing to claim that given a month I could write something far better.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by typon on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:37AM (#17039832)
Somehow it is WORSE than Microsoft Office communicator we used to use at my company.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by kup0 on Friday May 11, 2018 @08:48AM (#17046895)
Agreed. I've worked at two places now that have undergone the switch and it was worse in both cases. Not only the software being worse than its 2007 predecessor, but the upgrade itself broke all sorts of internal tools and functionality, thanks to unnecessary changes to the registry and SFB's desire to put add-ins in everything (IE, Outlook, Firefox, etc).
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by consumer451 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:29AM (#17039740)
I believe they have stopped putting much effort into Skype for Business and are hoping to move everyone to Teams ASAP.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by fhood on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:32AM (#17039765)
I have heard this before, but it doesn't explain why it was ever released without features such as, I don't know, WORKING CONVERSATION HISTORY!
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by inetknght on Thursday May 10, 2018 @04:09PM (#17042516)
Skype used to have working conversation history. It's one of the features which was removed.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by consumer451 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:16PM (#17040236)
Oh, agreed, it is nearly useless.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by Tehchops on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:53AM (#17040006)
Yea, based on our experience with SfB I'm frankly a little gobsmacked there are any enterprise clients with an overwhelmingly positive take on their experience.

I mean, they tout GE, a company in the middle of an incredibly well documented and historically expensive failure of a transition to a "digital" company. Probably not the best example. You'll have millions of minutes spent in Skype to wave around when getting everyone actually able to hear and participate takes several minutes on top of every meeting and call.

Right now we've got Slack, WebEx, and SfB. SfB is by far, the worst experience of the 3. Big meetings are on WebEx, and pretty much everyone uses Slack for ad-hoc stuff now. SfB is just too damned painful.

The program has awful UI/UX, calls rarely work, connectivity is a dice-roll most days, copy/paste(this is 2018, come on) is hilariously bad, viewing any kind of cohesive chat history is a disaster.

It's pretty bad when a recently added feature(calls) to an Electron-based chat app already provides a better UX vs. a multi-year incumbent created expressly for the same purpose.

Another comment summed it up pretty well: "enterprise" software has become synonymous with "stopped trying".

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by fphhotchips on Thursday May 10, 2018 @05:20PM (#17043070)
Don't even get me started on Webex. It's better than SfB sure, but only just. On Windows it will turn off cleartype whenever you do a screenshare, so whatever effort you were putting in to make something look good goes straight out of the window.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by AlphaSite on Friday May 11, 2018 @12:22AM (#17044950)
zooooooooooom
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by jmuguy on Thursday May 10, 2018 @01:21PM (#17040939)
If you really want to torture yourself, try SfB on macOS. "Kafkaesque" is an apt term for all the truly bizarre ways it abuses you.

My favorite recent thing - I'll hang up a call and randomly SfB will spawn about a dozen call quality survey windows for every call I've recently completed.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by indemnity on Thursday May 10, 2018 @02:41PM (#17041786)
In our company, the SfB on Mac users have an issue where login variably takes between 5 and 30 minutes.

Conferences are hilariously late because of this.

Also, Mac screen sharing usually crashes after a few minutes.

Sometimes calls get dropped and reconnnect just fails immediately with some weird error code until you sign out and delete all user data and log in again (waiting minutes).

Chat history disabled.

How we miss GotoMeeting...

If Slack conferences were better we’d all delete SfB ASAP.

No way in hell we would use Teams.

There was an option of Slack vs Teams and we had a huge stampede into Slack, but still have to use SfB because that’s the only way we can make phone calls since our physical phones were removed, and Slack conferencing options are limited.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by hyperdimension on Thursday May 10, 2018 @07:07PM (#17043675)
> In our company, the SfB on Mac users have an issue where login variably takes between 5 and 30 minutes.

Don't worry, that's a cross-platform feature. I get it on Windows too.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by aksss on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:15PM (#17040223)
We use dedicated accounts for our conf room PCs. You invite the room to the meeting, join from that PC. Works well and avoids the problem you mention. People don’t use personal accounts on conference room pc. Also using that program to ‘freeze’ known good config of pc and reboot nightly helps ensure it’s always working the next day regardless of what people mess up during the day.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by mbesto on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:30AM (#17039750)
It's amazing how things MS got wrong with Skype for Business. For something that had so much potential, that piece of software on Mac's is so ridiculously bad. It's a shame too, I'd definitely pay and be happy to be locked into a really nice softphone technology with corp IM/directory all in one.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by StreamBright on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:18AM (#17039620)
Same here, Skype for Business is such a big overhead that people started to riot against it and we are going to replace it with something that works. "failed sending" is an every day issue, Mac client cannot record, mobile version drains battery like crazy, just to mention the top pain points.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by jay-anderson on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:27AM (#17039720)
They're pushing skype for business in my workplace as well (larger corporation). We've been using zoom and the IT department keeps telling us to stop, but skype for business just doesn't work well: high memory usage (seen on multiple machines taking 20gb+ before having to be killed), lack of features (e.g. video conference recording), instability, general flakiness of software. It is truly bizarre all of the problems given how long the software has been around. The only thing I can believe is microsoft is not putting the resources needed into it. They will fail unless they change that quickly. Us engineers will pay for zoom out of our own pockets before using skype for business.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by TheRealDunkirk on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:51PM (#17040594)
You know how to take Skype FOR BUSINESS and make it even less useful? Prevent chat history, corporate-wide. You know, so we can't be forced to divulge the transcripts by a court. (As a Fortune-250, what do they have to hide?) Are there a lot of companies that share this practice? Did IBM release a white paper called "Chat History Deemed Harmful," and all Fortune 500 CIO's stroked their chins, nodded their heads, and contracted them to come turn it off? Or are we special?
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by 0xfeba on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:13AM (#17039561)
Yeah, I got the latest "Unified" version now with Win10 and it takes more clicks to do the same things now.

Plus it keeps insisting on showing my profile photo over any new screenshare, and doesn't remember when I pop it out and minimize it. Buttons hide and show (but the background behind them is still opaque).

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by std_throwaway on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:25AM (#17039696)
To be fair, if you just mess with the registry and corrupt it, you should expect weird problems.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by gambiting on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:33AM (#17039779)
Except that it wasn't anything we have done, and reinstalling the entire product multiple times didn't fix the issue.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by michrassena on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:08AM (#17039507)
Skype for Business client and server both seem to work pretty well. What I find annoying is Microsoft conflating the branding between two very different products, a rebadged enterprise communications product (formerly Lync) and a commercial-consumer product. So when someone says they want to make a Skype call with a client, what do they mean? Sometimes it's Skype for Business and sometimes it's plain old Skype. It costs everyone time and money when this isn't communicated clearly and one end of the call expects to use Skype and the other end Skype for Business.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by WorldMaker on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:52PM (#17040609)
Which does seem to be why Skype for Business is getting replaced with Teams, and why Teams is not Skype branded at all, it's just branded Microsoft Teams.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by occamrazor on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:11PM (#17040187)
In theory it is possible to make calls from Skype for Business and Skype for Consumers. In practice the UI for that is quite horrible and I could never successfully connect a call.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by stephenhuey on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:02AM (#17039445)
I do not understand why a software company who has long made money in the enterprise with Office, SQL Server, etc cannot make an integrated chat program that works well in a corporate environment. This Lync Skype beast is so buggy and it doesn't even have code paste one tenth as decent as what Sametime had a decade ago, and MS makes TOOLS FOR DEVELOPERS! Do they not use Lync/Skype in-house? Dog-folding should make it better right away, unless MS employees just don't collaborate with each other?
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by ConceptJunkie on Thursday May 10, 2018 @04:38PM (#17042747)
Several years ago I worked with an ex-Microsofter who'd worked on the NT kernel and SQL Server. There were several times when I asked him why so-and-so was so awful, and his response was always that they didn't have the good people working on it, because they were all working on NT and SQL Server. My response was that as big as Microsoft is, they should have enough good people to go around.

Really, I'm convinced it's not the average engineers in the trenches who make the products so horrible, but management and marketing's influence over management that causes everything to be a trainwreck.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by tzahola on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:03PM (#17040110)

    Dog-folding
Microsoft Origami Club to the rescue!
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by abiox on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:39PM (#17040483)
i think that at this level, what ultimately matters is that a) "it's Microsoft" and b) can the MS sales person/marketing materials convince some manager to sign off.

business-wise, making things better is only worth pursuing insofar as it helps maintain or advance market position. hopefully they'll see it that way at some point.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by wilde on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:39AM (#17039850)
They use it internally. It’s equally shitty, but it makes enough money no one cares.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by nkoren on Thursday May 10, 2018 @10:59AM (#17039411)
Unless you're not using Windows, in which case it functionally doesn't exist. Seriously. I have never successfully connected a single call with it.

(Understood that the same criticism can be levelled at Facetime etc -- which I also don't use.)

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by toyg on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:14AM (#17039577)
> I have never successfully connected a single call with it.

I have (on mac), but then I have been treated to terrible call quality and an incredibly poor UI (half the time we need remote control, there is no option for it, for some reason).

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by djsumdog on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:28AM (#17039723)
I use Linux as my native OS at my current shop and thought "Well they use Skype for Business and there's a new Skype for Linux client" .. but nope. Just as stated in this thread, it's a totally different protocol that's part of their Lync product.

I ended up getting a license for Sky, a 3rd party commercial Skype for Business client for Linux. It's pretty decent for what it is, but I could have just installed a Windows VM, used VNC, shared the VNC session and gotten the same thing.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by StringyBob on Friday May 11, 2018 @02:27AM (#17045331)
Used to be the case that if a mac or Linux user connected, the call quality degraded for everyone on the call. Don't know if improved...

http://blog.schertz.name/2016/06/skype-for-business-vbss-upd...

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by sloxy on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:01PM (#17040082)
> but I could have just installed a Windows VM, used VNC, shared the VNC session and gotten the same thing

I'm pretty sure there would be a noticeable(couple of seconds) lag between both incoming & outgoing audio to the VM making smooth flowing conversation near to impossible.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by djsumdog on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:05PM (#17040128)
At my old job I had this setup for WebEx. I did voice over a standard phone, so only video went over x11vnc -> vnc client in Windows VM -> WebEx. It worked pretty well; way better than Sky (Linux Skype for Business client) which is just laggy as hell.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by g8oz on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:37PM (#17040463)
On Linux Google Meet using Chrome is really good in my experience.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by hocuspocus on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:26PM (#17040353)
I used O365 and Skype for Business at my previous job, and we regularly fell back on consumer Skype with some of our remote developers (not that remote mind you, within Europe). Teams seemed to work better but was still very bare at the time.

Then we got new C-level executives from Cisco, and the first thing they did was to initiate a migration to Cisco solutions. Their offering is super confusing to end users like me (WebEx, Spark, Jabber, ?) but it works reliably, in my experience.

Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by erikb on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:26AM (#17039713)
Yes, Lync's call quality is better. But in return chat is awful, screensharing sometimes simply doesn't work, and it seems Lync Windows and Lync Mac where developed with two unrelated communication protocols in mind. And updating it can kill your whole computer.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by ctrlaltdestroy on Thursday May 10, 2018 @04:53PM (#17042871)
Really? I hate skype for business because I can't copy-paste any body of text to co-worker because it gives a dialog box saying "the message is too big to send".. I don't know a single IM app that does this. Apparently I'm in 1980s.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by m-p-3 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @02:01PM (#17041386)
We switched to Gsuite. Hangouts Meet with an automatically provided dial-in phone number for those unable to join the meeting through data sercices works well.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by jpfed on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:26PM (#17040342)
Aside: I can't hear the name "Skype for Business" without thinking someone took a perfectly suitable chat client and attacked it with Kragle.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by vermontdevil on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:29AM (#17039736)
Explains why everyone at IU uses Zoom nowadays for conference calls plus Slack for daily convo instead of Skype.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by xbrother on Thursday May 10, 2018 @12:09PM (#17040165)
We mostly switched to Zoom due the call quality.
Re:Microsoft Turned Consumers Against the Skype Brand by avodonosov on Thursday May 10, 2018 @02:42PM (#17041799)
Except it often doesnt work