Actually reminds me of a crazy bitch that insisted that I don't push my seat down, while at he same time had her seat pushed down (guess it is called "maximizing space"). But this was nothing that could not get fixed with a short yelling at her.

It's a bad design choice with such limited space to add functionality that complicates an already tenuous situation.

This forum is one that frequently discusses issues of inefficiency and good design. How is it that these seats, specifically their unnecessary ability to decline, aren't seen as an example of bad design? Very few seating options need reclining capabilities, especially on short flights.

When that happens you're stuck with the situation of having your knees caps smashed, just so someone can tilt their seat back a few degrees.

It's a very strange situation to agree that someone should have a small privilege to the discomfort or even pain of someone else.

if you think just because you have right to do something it's ok to do it i feel sorry for people around you

It's the rear most exit row aisle seat (I've developed some kind of flight anxiety/claustrophobia and medically need the sightline space of the aisle) which can recline, but the ones in front cannot.

Now I'm not saying she shouldn't have brought it back up when you asked. I know I would have. But there's no fairness doctrine here.

It'd be unfair if you are the sole arbiter of who gets to recline their seat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knee_Defender

I guess at some point someone popularized the notion that people reclining in front of you is a form of disrespect and it stuck in people's minds. I'm over 6ft tall and I hate coach seats as much as anyone (and living in South America, flying is usually an endeavor taking over 8 hours a pop) but I have never felt that the person reclining in front of me was wronging me in any way.

It might have to do with the usual brevity of domestic flights within the US (also leading to the colorful concept of a "redeye" flight).

If people make a fuss, and demand laws or government regulation for minimum dimensions of passenger spaces, that will establish a minimum floor on flight prices, but it will also ensure that everyone can be accommodated equally. If it's a race to the bottom anyway, it might be a good idea to build a floor at a reasonable height above rock bottom. Short and narrow people can then resent taller, fatter people for raising their fares instead of tall people getting angry about reclining seats.

As United says, "We know you have a choice of airlines when you fly".

Make sure it's a "Plus" seat though. I guarantee a regular seat will be an exercise in pure misery for the duration of the flight.

It would be silly for someone in this situation not to look.this up before buying a flight (using seatguru or similar). Just like checking the length of the sleeves is a good idea when buying a shirt online.

It's also worth noting that there's just not a lot of variety in seat pitch. It's not like I can book a flight with Long and Tall airlines!

But my point still stands: if someone _knows_ they are too big for most economy seats, and still buys a ticket which doesn't guarantee a suitable seat (because they don't want to pay the price, or because they don't want to change their schedule to a day when such a seat is available, or because they choose an airline which doesn't let them book seats at all) then it's not fair to put 100% of the blame on the airline.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like there to be a wider variety of seat sizes in economy (maybe smaller folks like me could get a cheaper ticket for a smaller seat!).

Which is the root of what the original comment was asking for. The rest was anecdotal of a bad experience.

Yes, my argument breaks down pretty quickly, good point.

Also, you do not have a right to recline, if there is a baby carrier behind you, you will be unable to.

I never recline (6'1) if I have to fly coach. It's disruptive to the person behind me, either their legs or if they are trying to work on a computer. Saying "it's their right!" is just a proxy for doing the reasonable and personable thing.

Thanks for your useful comment.

Sorry if it was interpreted incorrectly but the comment I replied to deserves dismissal.

Essentially the seat did slide forward and the back moved down with it, but the problem was that the belt was fixed in place in the seat shell. For me that had the effect of driving the belt into my kidneys if I moved the seat more than a few degrees off fully upright.

More likely the sliding seats just weren't very good.

Delta has an 11% net income margin, a reasonable and normal profit level. $8.9 billion in net income on $80.3 billion in sales the last two fiscal years combined.

Southwest has a similarly solid profit margin. American Airlines would be similar, were it not for their debt load and some non-recurring hits (as it is, their net income margin is closer to 7% to 8%).

Keeping in mind these are net income margins, meaning after taxes. American Airline's operating income margin is closer to 13%. Delta's operating income margin was quite nice given the space, at 17.5%.

The comedy is, the same oligopoly that enables them to now be able to afford to significantly improve the customer experience, is what is likely to ensure they have no interest or need to do so. Perhaps there is still enough competition between the majors to drive that, given they're all relatively flush with cash and profits.

I'm arguing that the lack of competition is shafting consumers because the free market can't express buyer preference when our preference isn't on the market - and that the status quo encourages airlines to not to compete by introducing a new variable.

Airline flying is simply too boring for my brain to be able to stay awake for it.

So they could disable recling seats on short flights with no problem.

Also, how exactly does the seat in front reclining affect your comfort? Not being able to recline my own seat affects my comfort far, far more than the seat in front of me being reclined.

There is almost no excuse for not asking before reclining unless it is a very long flight (i.e. 10+ hours) or if the person is that shitty. Sometimes I wish people with that little regard for others would be barred from the privilege of flying :( .

As for laptops, I've completely given up on them on planes. It's just not feasible anymore.

I get it that coach is tight but I shouldn't have to signal to everyone that I plan to recline my seat.

You have to remember that there are a lot of people on the plane of different shapes and sizes, so what might not bother you might be a huge problem for someone else.

Exactly, that's what I'm saying. It goes both ways.

Was your seat reclined?

Bonus tip: if there are two exit rows back to back, pick the one in the back. It will be able to recline but can't be reclined in front of.

It's not as if tickets have been getting cheaper, to compensate, either. It's gotten to the point that I simply refuse to fly domestic unless I am forced.

Personally, I'd be fine with less leg space (despite being 6') if it meant wider seats. I really don't enjoy being shoulder to shoulder or being smacked whenever they roll the cart by.

It's not like I'm taking up a third of the aisle with my shoulder, it's only a couple of inches, but my opinion of the general public is notably worse after a long-haul flight.

The worst part is would they pay for it? The airline obviously wouldn't. Would the passenger? If they refused would the airline give me their info to file a claim? I assume not.

So I'd be stuck buying a new computer - and probably without a computer for part of the trip - while I did nothing wrong.

2. If you damage someone else's property - whether on purpose or by accident - the decent thing to do is try to make it right. Are you required to in many situations? Probably not.. which is the cause of my original comment.

If you put your laptop in the middle of the road and my car runs over it then I wouldn't be making it right, not the best analogy but its a similar shade of grey. Your position that this is either the airline or the guy/gal in front fault, and you've done nothing wrong, is laughable - it's your choice, your fault, was it a shock that the seat in front can recline and the person hasnt got eyes in the back of his head? how is a non-aisle dude even meant to know your using your very important laptop? I can barely move my feet nevermind my neck 180o and 50cm over the headrest..

Now, out of manners, if I noticed you had a laptop when I boarded or after going toilet, I'd probably try to give you a heads up presuming you werent on your noise cancelling headphones too, a brief 'hey dude, Im going recline in 30 seconds' but that's just me being polite, it's not mandated and I definitely don't expect it of the guy/gal in front of me when travelling economy.

Go business, or get company to underwrite the laptop use in economy, or just put it away... I don't think anyone in the seat in front would make you whole for your own careless mistake, anyone?

If it was really pressing down on the top of the laptop's screen with significant force, wouldn't it push the tray table to extend toward you, relieving the pressure? Or are you not opening your laptop beyond 90 degrees?

It doesn't seem that complicated, actually at least French trains have solved this by making reclining seats slide down their frame (and forward) instead of actually recline backwards into the rear passenger's space. It works really well, and the result is that reclining uses the reclining person's space and cannot bother anyone else.

However, these trains have more leg space and sturdier seats than regular planes, so maybe it's more difficult to achieve on a plane?

Also, if the seats slide downwards, does that impinge on the small luggage space underneath the seat for the person behind?

But yeah, the seats are probably bulkier.

But I think part of it is also location. Some airports are only served by one or two airlines, effectively limiting choice. So the result is that if I wanna get home, I'm stuck riding with the bad airline.

I generally prefer the train when the distance is reasonable enough.

- Stand for 30 min, then sit for 30 min or so. You will be surprised by how much better you feel by the end of the flight. I just grab Kindle and read it standing in the isle on domestic or walk to the back of the plane on widebody international flights (usually there is space there).

- Use inflatable pillow like this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06WVR48SW. You will get much better sleep with it

Though flight attendants probably don't give a

If the person behind you bumps you continually, recline your seat.