News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by tomstokes on Friday December 20, 2013 @10:50AM (#6941943)
Perhaps the most fascinating part of this letter is observing people's reactions to it. In the letter, the author goes so far as to admit that s/he is and always will be a psychopath without a sense of guilt or remorse toward others and a keen ability to recognize and exploit weaknesses in others for his/her own gain.

Judging by the comments here, the letter has done just that. One comment below notes that "Jeez, that's the single most interesting, insightful, and well-written piece I've read on the internet in a long time." Others are expressing a desire to meet the author or expressing how they can identify with the author. It's incredible to see just how effectively this letter resonates with the people who read it.

Don't get me wrong: It's both impressive and admirable that the author was able to not only admit that he needed therapy but to press on long enough to make therapy work for himself in an effective manner. I don't want to downplay his accomplishments. However, it is still interesting to dissect and observe all of the persuasiveness of the letter and the fluidity with which the author transforms psychopathy from a very difficult personality disorder into somewhat of a super power that the reader can't help but envy by the end of the letter.

As you read the letter and experience strong feelings of empathy for the author, consider his own poignant words at the end: "In the end, psychopaths need to be given that very thing everyone believes they lack for others, empathy."

The letter begins with the psychopath distancing himself from the traditional destructive psychopathic traits in the most admirable and self-aggrandizing way possible: He went against all odds and admitted himself into treatment, where he claims the health agency had never seen someone of his nature walk-in before and he was too incredible of a case for anyone but the highest-ranking therapist to handle.

He continues by setting up various straw-man caricatures of psychopathy ("cartoon evil serial killers" and the CEO who prizes profits over people) and knocking them down one-by-one, leaving the reader feeling guilty of possibly embracing those stereotypes at one point. With the reader feeling a bit guilty, empathetic, and as if the author's condition is simply misunderstood, the author has set the stage to rebuild the reader's view of psychopathy in a way that benefits the author.

Toward the end, he even goes so far as to put words in the reader's mouth just so he can turn around and undermine the very caricature of a psychopath he suggested you might hold : "Such as statement might tempt you to say 'well obviously you're not a real psychopath then'. As if the definition of a psychopath is someone who exploits others for their personal power, satisfaction or gain."

The rest of the article explains the author's psychopathy the way the author wants you to view it: As "a highly trained perception, ability to adapt, and a lack of judgment borne of pragmatic and flexible moral reasoning." He goes on to say that he "enjoy[s] a reputation of being someone of intense understanding and observation with a keen strategic instinct." At this point, the author has completely distanced his psychopathy from the purely negative caricature he painted in the first half of his letter. Who wouldn't be envious of such incredible, valuable, and morally-neutral abilities as he described them?

I've read the letter several times over, and I'm still amazed at how effective it is at garnering empathy from the reader and cultivating a sense that the author is an impressive individual who has triumphed over adversity after a great struggle. And it's true that overcoming your own objections to seek, and stick with, treatment for such a severe personality disorder is both impressive and admirable. His points about the general public's misunderstanding of true psychopathy are equally true, although he crucially omits any and all explanations of how psychopathy can actually be dangerous and destructive to others. It's an incredible piece of writing, and incredibly persuasive and manipulative in a way that I'm sure PR and marketing teams everywhere would be jealous of.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by hootener on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:09AM (#6942052)
What's brilliant about this letter is how easily I stepped into it. C admitted to possessing the abilities to be a master manipulator and exploiter of weakness; and I still let C manipulate me into thinking exactly the way he/she wanted me to by the end of the letter.

It was the literary equivalent of the cup-and-shell game. I saw the con happening right before my eyes and still got duped. Brilliant writing.

(Note: I refer to it as a con, but only for convenience. I don't think it's necessarily negative to leave the reading thinking exactly what the author wants you to think. The process C undertook for doing so was simply so well constructed that it didn't dawn on me that I was being expertly manipulated until tomstokes pointed it out.)

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by throwaway83294 on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:56AM (#6942363)
You have no idea. I was "friends" with someone for years, who at the time I didn't know was a psychopath (over time I realized they met literally every item on the psychopathy checklist). The manipulativeness, the ability to lie completely sincerely (I bet a lie detector test would show absolutely nothing), and absolute and utter lack of remorse is terrifying, in a way.

The most striking thing, in retrospect, is the manipulative talent they have, and how relentlessly and patiently they are to go for the "long con".

In my case, I happen to be very talented at programming and computer science. The psychopath (who has no particular scientific talent) I refer to found me, and basically befriended me and over time convinced me to work some 100+ hour weeks on an entrepreneurial project building prototypes. This would ordinarily be fine if the profit was split evenly, but only in retrospect did I realize the disparity of my persuaded reality from their distortion field versus actual reality -- i.e. this person took 100% credit for my work, and was sure to leave no evidence that I did anything so there was nothing I could do.

But that's not even the persuasive part. The persuasive part was when I brought this up with my "friend", saying "hey so I noticed you're taking complete credit for this with no mention of me" or something of that sort. I don't even remember the details, but this person masterfully diverted attention in such a way that I found it not important, and thought about other things.

Ultimately over time, I noticed all the little disparities (lies, deception, hints of absolute lack of remorse) and had a pretty good suspicion that this person was a psychopath. It was only when I caught him in a completely undeniable lie that it all exploded.

The excuses given when confronted were pretty impressive at the time, but I'm not stupid, and it was pretty clear he was struggling to come up with answers when confronted. The strangest thing though was despite me having hard and undeniable evidence, to this day he would refuse to admit the lie, and in fact tried to convince me to apologize for slandering him (despite him knowing very well I have conclusive evidence).

Then I let on I knew he was a psychopath. The change in personality was dramatic, creepy, and like something out of a horror movie. You don't know this person, but normally he has a very persuasive, seductive (in a non sexual way), and extremely socially charming and polite personality. When you're around him, he makes everyone feel good about themselves (part of his strategy to get people to follow him and do what he wants is making them addicted to feeling good about themselves around him).

But after he knew I knew, things were different. The attitude DROPPED completely. He had a stone cold expression, no emotion in his voice, and the coldest eyes and voice tone you could imagine. There was only one emotion he showed when I revealed I knew, and it was terror. Deep, deep terror he was struggling to conceal. This made the situation all the more creepy, because this person is characterized by being completely fearless (as is typical of psychopaths), but I suspect if it's one thing that scares a psychopath, it's being found out -- which btw is why this article from the OP is so remarkable (though no doubt it's just an attempt at manipulation, if you know anything about psychopaths). But beyond the terror you could see, there was nothing -- just pure cold and calculating rational self-serving thought. He immediately terminated a multiple year "friendship" without even a thought, and distanced himself from me after he realized I could not be persuaded and distorted into thinking I was wrong and imagining things.

Since then we've crossed paths only a few times, and you can tell he's still afraid of being revealed. He's doing well though in business as you would expect of a psychopath, climbing the social ladder very quickly to a future of possible fortune.

I should add that it is indeed a common misconception that psychopaths are cold blooded killers. The reality is in some ways much more scary. The stupid ones perhaps kill, but they eventually get caught. The smart ones are leeches on society, who have no regard for anything but their own animalistic desires of power, control, and inflated ego.

Also, having been "friends" with a psychopath gives an interesting perspective on other well-known figures. Though I never met him, I am convinced Steve Jobs is pretty high on the psychopathy spectrum. What's interesting is that Jobs accomplished something valuable to society, though not without leaving a trail of damage in his wake. The psychopath I met also has a strong motivation to make an impact in the world, to be known almost as a hero, no doubt to satisfy desires of ego and power. So perhaps society's social structure can work for good and turn the desires of a psychopath towards good (but unfortunately it can also work in reverse). So in a way, I think psychopaths aren't all inherently leeches on society if what they accomplish is positively impactful to it.

But you see... the scariest part of having encountered a psychopath is it's sometimes very difficult to know if that last thought is my own, or something I was persuaded to think.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by selmnoo on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:53PM (#6942814)
I'm finding most of these posts to be deeply unsettling. Psychopathy is a mental disorder -- you guys are writing off psychopaths en masse as 'bad people', who cannot contribute to society at all. Consider if the submission piece is genuine: a guy with a mental disorder sought out help to curb any harm he might have otherwise done to others. That's a happy ending isn't it? Be cautious, sure, but let's not just take them as 'evil people'.

Anyway, reading these comments I'm reminded of a friend, -- Jake, shall we call him. Jake has severe autism, but he is an incredibly smart guy and an excellent programmer. He's of old age now. He's completely broken... and he says the reason he's broken is no-one ever saw him as a friend, only as a worker they could use. Every other business person saw him as a tool that could write good code, and not complain about a shitty (or no) salary. I got to know some of the people who'd employed him... they were... well, just normal people, they were not psychopaths. I'm betting that a lot of people who're right now commenting on this article, and calling him are evil are possibly the people who'd use Jake just like psychopaths supposedly use mentally normal people. The power differential of a normal, average human being and Jake is comparable to the power differential of a psychopath and a normal, average human. Psychopaths see the weaknesses that can be exploited in normal people; normal people see emotional weaknesses in Jake - and they realize they can make him do whatever they want to, and he'll be helpless and voiceless in the end with you having gotten what you'd wanted from him.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by throwaway83294 on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:10PM (#6942919)
It's easy to either over-demonize or underestimate the nature of actual psychopathy if you've never encountered it. By definition, a pure psychopath feels absolutely no remorse, no guilt, and has an unshakable egocentric view that does not change. They're effectively intelligent rational agents without the natural mammal-evolved desire to benefit the group -- they only seek to benefit the self. They would stab you in the back both figuratively and literally without the slightest hesitation or emotional reservation, so long as they know the benefits to them sufficiently outweigh the risks.

You can no more teach a psychopath to be caring and empathic than you can teach someone with autism to implicitly understand social context and facial expressions. However, a psychopath will be thrilled to find someone who thinks they can "convert" them, because they can use this to their advantage.

On the other hand, I say some people over-demonize psychopaths though because they assume they're all on the extreme end of the spectrum and all with the same traits. For example, some autistic people can recognize facial expressions masterfully, but fail at other things. Similarly, not all psychopaths are alike or have the same motivations or methods.

If you read my post again, you'll note that I am admitting to the possibility that psychopaths can contribute positively to society, but only in as far as society arranges a cost/benefit system where positive contributions are rewarded more than negative ones.

However since there is really no scientific evidence a psychopath can truly change, you should not find it unsettling that we hold a non-scientific, subjective, anecdotal, and self-reported essay of change on the part of a psychopath with pessimism and doubt.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by chrischen on Friday December 20, 2013 @08:10PM (#6945219)
If they're rational agents, then they should understand the results of the iterated prisoner's dilemma, and understand that screwing people over doesn't pay, remorse or no remorse.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by stormbrew on Saturday December 21, 2013 @12:35AM (#6945906)
Aside from the fact that life isn't a restricted theoretical game theory puzzle and rational doesn't mean educated (thus aware of prisoner's dilemma), this would assume that the people they're screwing over are also rational actors and are capable of cooperating.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by chrischen on Saturday December 21, 2013 @06:19AM (#6946422)
You don't have to be aware of the iterated prisoner's dilemma. My point is that as a psychopath screwing people over, you should realize that this strategy is suboptimal. You will lose out to people who do cooperate.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by JanezStupar on Saturday December 21, 2013 @11:28AM (#6947012)
Oh, psychopath will play your prisoners dilemma. He WILL be the one to talk you into cooperation.

He will not attack you in public unless he has public on his side. Thats what makes a psychopath so horrible.

He will fuck you over then he will convince everybody else that you fucked him over.

Psychopaths are Varelse in emotional sense.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by chrischen on Saturday December 21, 2013 @05:01PM (#6948275)
He fucks you over and that is eventually a non-cooperation in an even bigger iterated prisoner's dilemma game.

Unless you willingly let him fuck you in the ass again, then his psychopathic strategy will no longer work on you, and you will at least not cooperate, and possibly retaliate resulting in a net loss. In fact, this is extremely likely because it's in your incentive now to disincentivize him from further fucking you because you want to send the proper signal.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by im3w1l on Saturday December 21, 2013 @02:43AM (#6946109)
Iterated prisoner's dilemma is a highly idealized model.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by chrischen on Saturday December 21, 2013 @06:19AM (#6946423)
How so?
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by im3w1l on Saturday December 21, 2013 @12:00PM (#6947122)
For starters, it is a two player game. Secondly it will not always be crystal clear that you chose "defect" to your coplayers in the real world, since actions are subject to interpretation. Third, the real world is not a game of perfect information.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by chrischen on Saturday December 21, 2013 @05:00PM (#6948265)
It is clear that you chose "defect" in the real world.. over time. It is in fact theoretically impossible to escape this consequence as time approaches infinity. Think about it, you are constantly leaving traces of you "defecting" and not leaving traces of not defecting. Eventually this catches up. This is also an example of the principle of karma, aka cause and effect. You can't escape fundamental effects of causes forever.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Houshalter on Friday December 20, 2013 @07:22PM (#6945077)
I know it's not their fault and that they were born with it, but it still disturbs me. They don't have empathy or morality and I would consider that the definition of evil. Someone can still be a bad person through no fault of their own.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Taek on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:15PM (#6942954)
This whole thread strikes me as having a very strong 'us vs. them' mentality. The guy in his letter makes a plea that 'Psychopaths are just people.' and the general feeling of these comments is to completely throw this away and view psychopaths as a dangerous and scary group of people.

Psychopaths look at the world differently than we do, they are highly rational and self motivated, but that doesn't need we need to fear them, hide from them, avoid them, or try to lock them up. There are more ways to deal a person like this.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by rtpg on Friday December 20, 2013 @02:32PM (#6943440)
We don't need to fear a subset of people who subvert trust so willngly , destroying the base from which all social contracts are formed?
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by lemonberry on Friday December 20, 2013 @04:06PM (#6944022)
Highly rational and and self-motivated are not the only distinguishing features of a psychopath. And those are not the features, or the only features, that people are afraid of.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by collyw on Friday December 20, 2013 @04:22PM (#6944123)
We do need to fear them when they get into positions of power.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by tfb on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:26PM (#6942593)
I've known a few psychopaths myself. It is interesting how they react when you make it clear you know all about their deception. I personally find it hilarious that they think they're able to dupe everyone they meet, but I also feel sad that it still works on so many.

It's hard though to differentiate true psychopaths from those who simply share a few traits. When I read about psychopaths, I tend to find common traits within myself. I can't tell if I'm a psychopath or not. Are those who desire power, control, and inflated egos always psychopaths? Or do psychopaths just happen to always have that in common? Regarding myself for example, I may dream big and make promises that take time to meet, but I'm not a liar and I don't actively manipulate people for selfish gain; and I do crave power, control, and prestige, but not for the sake of it; I just know that those three characteristics are required to make some kind of real impact on the world that truly improves lives; and I've come to realize that if I want something to be done, I can't always rely on others to do it, so being in a respectable position of power and control is almost certainly required. Does that make me a psychopath?

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by nostrademons on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:31PM (#6943070)
Usually the defining characteristic of a psychopath is an inability to feel shame, remorse, or empathy. If you catch someone with narcissistic personality disorder in a lie or situation where they've hurt someone and call them out on it, the response is usually bluster, a frantic attempt to shore up ego. If you catch someone with borderline personality disorder or just plain deep insecurity, they'll often deflate and get downcast. Catch a secure person and they'll apologize and try to make things right. Catch a psychopath and they'll react rationally to further their own interests - they completely lack an emotional response to hurting people.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by gohrt on Saturday December 21, 2013 @01:49AM (#6946019)
hmm.. In some sense, a psychopath is someone who is perfectly cool under (social) pressure.

When a normal person gets into a dispute, they worry about saving face and moral obligations, instinctively comfort (or maybe attack) the other person, etc, in an "I-Thou" situation. But a psychopath just sees a dispute as an "I-It" situation, like seeing a puddle on the sidewalk, something to casually (or carefully) navigate around, or (in the worst case) plow through and brush off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_and_Thou http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Buber

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by tfb on Monday December 23, 2013 @01:39AM (#6953370)
Thanks for that explanation. That's a really effective way to look at it, I think.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by throwaway83294 on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:47PM (#6942761)
> I can't tell if I'm a psychopath or not. Are those who desire power, control, and inflated egos always psychopaths?

No. I, and I suspect most ambitious people, also desire power, control, and have inflated egos to some extent. Psychopaths are still human (though broken) and also have these traits, but since they lack other traits like compassion, generosity, etc., the former tend to show through more.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by CamperBob2 on Friday December 20, 2013 @09:25PM (#6945420)
I have a problem with the whole notion that runs throughout this conversation -- the notion that psychopathy is a binary state. Everyone should do a mental find-and-replace of "psychopathy" with "homosexuality," and re-evaluate their views in light of the existence of the Kinsey scale.

One thing you can say about the human mind is that there's nothing binary about it.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Myrmornis on Sunday December 22, 2013 @06:58AM (#6950083)
Yes, very silly. Why's everyone talking as if "psychopath" were a clear cut, clearly identifiable category?
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by psychosurvivor on Friday December 20, 2013 @06:30PM (#6944862)
Your story resonates with me and I notice we're both using throwaway accounts to share our stories (mine elsewhere on this thread.) Once you've had close relations with a full blown psychopath you'll never be the same again. There is absolutely no way to learn about the experience except to go through it. I still think about mine and want to pick up the phone sometimes and call him. Psychopaths can be everything you need from another person because they'll study those needs intensely to manipulate you to get what they want. It's hard to explain, like trying to explain a hit of crack to someone who has never tried it. Psychopathy explains con artists, pimps, cult leaders, and yes, even Steve Jobs to a certain extent.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by southpawgirl on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:38PM (#6942687)
> I suspect if it's one thing that scares a psychopath, it's being found out

No, that's a narcissist. Afaik psychos aren't attaching that much emotional involvement to their public persona. They might be annoyed if sussed out, but that's about it.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by throwaway83294 on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:52PM (#6942810)
You might be right. I must admit the "fear" I thought I detected was subtle at best, and the word "fear" is just my attempt to assign a word to a response I hadn't seen in him before. I think a better way of describing it is he showed he was "unsettled" at a deeper level than I'd seen before, since generally nothing phases him.

Edit: BellsOnSunday: I'm responding in an edit because for some reason HN doesn't allow me to reply directly to your post.

"Deep, deep terror" does not imply "strong, outwardly expressed terror." By "deep" I meant it was well concealed, deep rooted, and rarely encountered whatever it was. If you replace the word "terror" with "unsettled loss of composure", the sentiment remains the same. The latter is perhaps more accurate, the former takes less words and is what first came to my mind when initially describing it.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by BellsOnSunday on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:35PM (#6943102)
Comparing

> There was only one emotion he showed when I revealed I knew, and it was terror. Deep, deep terror he was struggling to conceal.

with

> I must admit the "fear" I thought I detected was subtle at best

you seem to have got a bit carried away in the telling of your story (which sounds to me like a rather standard one of someone taking advantage of another in a business situation).

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by sliverstorm on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:28PM (#6942607)
this person is characterized by being completely fearless (as is typical of psychopaths)

Everyone is afraid of something. Psychopaths are still people. If you believe someone is fearless, it's a safe assumption they either hide their fear (when they feel it) extremely well, or you simply haven't encountered it yet.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by scott_s on Friday December 20, 2013 @04:04PM (#6944014)
Psychopaths tend to fear negative consequences less than non-psychopaths. They are still people, but having less fear (not being literally fearless) than most is a defining trait.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by gohrt on Saturday December 21, 2013 @01:51AM (#6946022)
They fear negative consequences less, or they fear social consequences less?

That is, are they less afraid of car crashes and drowning, or just less afraid of pissing people off (because they don't care about other's personal needs, and because they can easily "fix" a relationship with the advantages of deception)

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by scott_s on Saturday December 21, 2013 @02:01PM (#6947546)
Negative consequences; less afraid of car crashes and drowning. Which also means they have a harder time learning from their mistakes.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by JVerstry on Friday December 20, 2013 @06:36PM (#6944893)
No, some people do not experience fear at all. It is not hidden anywhere. As scary as this may seem... lol
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by sliverstorm on Friday December 20, 2013 @07:49PM (#6945162)
There are a rare few people that truly do not experience fear, but they have a damaged amygdala, which is rare and totally unrelated to psychopathy.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by yannk on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:28PM (#6942604)
So, why the throwaway account?

Did you think about telling anyone or did you even tell anyone, so that maybe others don't have to go through the same thing you did?

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by throwaway83294 on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:57PM (#6942834)
For reasons I won't get into, after he was confronted, he did what I'd describe as "firing a warning shot", but in terms of social power. Basically it was his way of saying "Don't mess with me. I have influence and can destroy your life." Following that, I've been forced to take precautions in terms of carefully bringing friends into this knowledge, among other strategic preparations in case he "attacks" some day with his army of devoted followers. (Another trait of psychopaths I believe is the accumulation of a large network of followers, across which they can magnify and extend their influence far further than you could purely through 1st order persuasion.) I won't get into details, but posting this under my real account and therefore real name would be counterproductive to the precautions I'm taking.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by mikedmiked on Friday December 20, 2013 @05:17PM (#6944465)
Thanks for all your insight here in this thread. I went through all this myself and haven't really been able to talk about it. Its reassuring to see others have been through the same. My psychopath convinced everyone I had psychosis when I questioned her once. I refused to believe something that I saw her do was a 'hallucination'. For months I was gaslighted by everyone I knew. I would think I was in the clear and then a friend would call me up at work out of the blue, asking if they can take me to accident and emergency. I had 9 months depression and am only now getting out of it.

It is insane how memories can be overwritten. I can write at length on this, I learnt it from videoing her talking to me. They have total frame control and will keep switching subjects away from facts.

I never confronted her to tell her that I knew who she was, but she did warn me indirectly. She showed the 'psychopath face', if that means anything to anyone...

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by jevinskie on Friday December 20, 2013 @08:20PM (#6945248)
What does "accident and emergency" mean? A (mental) hospital?
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by StavrosK on Friday December 20, 2013 @09:36PM (#6945454)
It's what the ER is called in the UK.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by VladimirGolovin on Friday December 20, 2013 @02:42PM (#6943498)
Everything you said above checks out, my experience with a psychopath was similar.

> "Don't mess with me."

I heard this exact phrase, he said it right to my face. I didn't think at that moment that I'm posing any threat. Perhaps the guy overestimated me.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by throwaway83294 on Friday December 20, 2013 @03:57PM (#6943969)
I'm actually surprised it would be said directly to your face. Obviously psychopaths are different, but the person I knew was very smart and knew not to overextend their influence unless necessary, and was very careful not to self incriminate. Saying "don't mess with me" outright to someones face is risky, especially if it's overheard or recorded. My case was much more subtle, more of a "show of power" socially which nobody else would understand except me, given the recent confrontation.

To me, it's far more dangerous to confront someone who is a master manipulator and expert at knowing how to do so subtly and undetectably, versus someone who throws around angry threats. The latter is almost harmless, unless it's backed up by the former.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by hedning on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:54PM (#6945821)
> But beyond the terror you could see, there was nothing -- just pure cold and calculating rational self-serving thought.

Apart from his feelings he didn't have feelings? I appreciate you telling your story and I realize you were taken advantage of, and he treated you unquestionably bad, but painting this person as completly unhuman is not very helpful.

It seems to me that the things you describe here is an extreme end of human nature, but in way outside human nature. The best laws of physics are the one that are valid from all perspectives, so it is with the laws of human nature. Having a completly ad-hoc theory for someone elses behaviour is not emphatic or useful.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by leot on Saturday December 21, 2013 @01:44AM (#6946011)
Any letter that honestly describes overcoming hardship should trigger empathy. That doesn't mean one is being manipulated.

The trouble with much of this discussion is that, apparently, once classified as a "psychopath", all bad behavior is typical and all good behavior manipulative.

Furthermore, though, minds are assembled of, and driven by, complex and messy mechanisms: "lack of remorse" means what, exactly? Lack of feeling? Or, perhaps, the person feels it but chooses to ignore it? Are they ignoring it for self-serving reasons? What if those "self-serving" reasons are necessary because of the job one has (e.g., military)? Similarly, "lack of guilt" means what, exactly? Is it lack of learning what things one should feel guilty for? Is "feeling guilt" a learned skill, or does its ontogeny happen "all on its own"? (whatever that means; but in any case, we cannot have had the capacity to feel guilt "since conception")

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by sliverstorm on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:23PM (#6942568)
So you're saying the letter is a long-con to increase trust in psychopaths to make it easier for the author to take advantage of people?

You say you don't necessarily mean "con", but "manipulated" definitely implies you feel you were led to believe something likely false that you wouldn't have otherwise via trickery, etc.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by interpol_p on Friday December 20, 2013 @09:42PM (#6945470)
It might not be a con, the letter just demonstrates a self-serving nature written in a manipulative, empathy inducing style.

The letter may have no long-term purpose, but it might be written that way because the author is so used to this way of thinking.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by hootener on Friday December 20, 2013 @09:45PM (#6945479)
Don't overthink my comment. I don't know C and have no idea how pure his intention in writing the letter may be.

Despite his intent, I believe that I left the letter thinking exactly what it was designed to make me think. Therefore, the actual mechanics of the letter (which were outlined well by tomstokes, in my opinion) were excellent at eliciting what I assume is the intended response. This is akin to successful manipulation, but may not necessarily be from a place of malice on the part of C. However, C's changing my opinion of psychopathy does in fact place him in a more advantageous position if the two of us were ever to meet, thus I was manipulated.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by prirun on Saturday December 21, 2013 @12:49PM (#6947294)
I don't agree that whenever someone changes your mind to their way of thinking because of compelling writing, they "manipulated" you. You have the choice of agreeing with them or not. If you agree with them and change your views, you can't just say "they manipulated me".
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by kbenson on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:39PM (#6942693)
I think he is just saying that the letter can also be taken as self serving manipulation, so may or may not really communicate change.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by catchaway on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:54PM (#6942822)
Perhaps the most fascinating part of this response is observing how this has changed the tone of discussion in this thread. It's interesting how the parent tries to downplay his own ability to identify weakness in his readers and manipulate them into thinking of what they found as inspirational as being manipulative.

Judging by the comments here, the parent's been pretty successful. One comment below notes that "What's brilliant about this letter is how easily I stepped into it." Others are calling the parent's analysis "fantastic". It's incredible to see just how effectively this parent comment resonates with the people who read it.

Don't get me wrong: It's both impressive and admirable that the parent was able to not only paint the original author's analysis as manipulative, he was able to build such a persuasive and fluid dissection of it. What's truly amazing is how the parent transforms the original author's letter from an anonymous insightful expression to a vile manipulation of the reader that the reader can't help but feel fooled by the end of the parent's comment.

As you read the comment and experience strong feelings of guilt about having been manipulated by a psychopath, consider this: You can paint pretty much anything effective as a psychopath's manipulation. For an author to be effective, she must portray her beliefs as effectively as she can. Discrediting the words of any person - psychopath or otherwise - on grounds of them being capable of effective manipulation serves little purpose and just perpetuates a stereotype.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by kansface on Friday December 20, 2013 @06:49PM (#6944938)
The op was successful because the analysis was accurate unlike yours.

As I stated below, the article more or less claims the author has magical supper powers. He overcomes the great internal struggle (with some help from the great expert) and ultimately chooses to use his powers for the good of the world.

The comment isn't transformative when the article is taken at face value- self aggrandizing.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by shanusmagnus on Friday December 20, 2013 @06:40PM (#6944902)
Brilliant.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by undoware on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:06PM (#6942892)
I hate to logic-chop a civilian (i.e. someone who didn't waste their youth in an analytic philosophy department studying ethics) but here we go.

If your position is that all convincing self-accounts by psychopaths are themselves only convincing because the psychopath is somehow 'tricking' you, then you can take that statement and s/psychopath/any group you care to name/ and you'd never know the difference.

Don't believe me? Try substituting various bogeymen of the twentieth century: crack dealers, pedophiles, etc. You see what I mean? It always works: You shouldn't trust what pedophiles say because, well, they're pedophiles!

Generalizing, there's always a reason why someone's supposed perfidy makes them an untrustworthy speaker, and that's a problem.

One floor down, what's going on is 'begging the question' -- not in the colloquial motivates-the-question sense, but in the sense that you are assuming what you set out to prove (circular reasoning).

Watch:

CLAIM = C is a psychopath; therefore, don't trust him when he says C is good.

CLAIM' = X is a Y; therefore, don't believe X's claim that Z.

But there's still an implicit claim hiding! In fact, it's the value of Z. Let's suss it out:

CLAIM'' = X is a Y; Ys are untrustworthy; therefore, don't believe X when X says that Ys are trustworthy.

There you have it: a textbook case of circular reasoning. That's the sort of thing C is talking about: people get so emotional when they think about psychopaths, they fail to hold themselves up to the same standards for rational discourse at which a psychopath ironically excels.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by DanBC on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:08PM (#6942907)
> If your position is that all convincing self-accounts by psychopaths are themselves only convincing because the psychopath is somehow 'tricking' you, then you can take that statement and s/psychopath/any group you care to name/ and you'd never know the difference. Don't believe me? Try substituting various bogeymen of the twentieth century: crack dealers, pedophiles, etc. You see what I mean? It always works: You shouldn't trust what pedophiles say because, well, they're pedophiles!

Your logic chop fails because one of the elements of psychopathy is being a convincing liar.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by scott_s on Friday December 20, 2013 @03:55PM (#6943953)
Not just a convincing liar, but one with a propensity for manipulation and a lack of empathy. Because of that, I think tomstoke's analysis is unique to sociopaths/psychopaths, and you cannot simply insert any bogeyman.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by alan_cx on Friday December 20, 2013 @02:16PM (#6943355)
Hmmm, no. One of the elements of being a successful human being is being a convincing liar.

"Does my bum look big in this"? "Hi, wow you look great...."

And so on.

Humans lie. If they didn't, they'd be in constant conflict.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by smsm42 on Saturday December 21, 2013 @04:44AM (#6946290)
What you just described is not a lie. It would be a lie if you were a martian having no understanding in how humans operate. The question "Does my bum look big in this?" may be a factual inquiry about the qualities of the chosen garment or may be a solicitation of a social interaction expressing support and admiration, due to the feelings of insecurity or needing external validation. Yes, I know it sounds the same, humans are complex. But calling such social interaction "a lie" just because it is not a factual exchange is IMO misunderstanding the whole process and devaluing the term "lie".
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by DanBC on Saturday December 21, 2013 @05:14AM (#6946332)
But these lies are exactly why psychopaths lie. They start by telling the truth, and realising it doesn't work. They learn to lie. They discover that does work. They then use this technique and apply it to everything. Lies become more than the social oil that everyone uses to avoid offence, lies become a tool of manipulation.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by undoware on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:33PM (#6943082)
So is being any sort of successful criminal. A pedophile, for example.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Arnor on Friday December 20, 2013 @02:06PM (#6943293)
I still have no idea what you're trying to say. I don't have an abundance of trust for psychopaths, pedophiles, or crack dealers. I've worked very closely with psychopaths (one was also a pedophile) in an institutional setting in the past. I had to assume that every interaction was a manipulation. Even being extremely careful, it was easy to get caught from time to time particularly when I was understaffed (i.e. 1 staff to 3 clients).

Reading the top parent of this thread was very interesting because he was thinking in exactly the way I had been conditioned to think at that time in my life.

When a person in your life lies to you or manipulates you, you will certainly begin to question the value of other interactions from that person. Once you have confirmed that the person has a personality type that makes them particularly likely to lie or manipulate (compulsive liars, psychopaths, criminals, what have you), you must be careful about your interpretation of any communication. But here's the real difficulty: If a psychopath is trying to manipulate you and knows that you are conscious of it, the manipulations morph. They adapt to your particular defense. In the institutional setting, they're in it for the long haul so they don't mind missing a couple times. In fact, getting caught is often part of the manipulation.

I wandered off my initial topic here so I better wrap it up.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by cdash on Friday December 20, 2013 @03:22PM (#6943721)
Everyone lies and manipulates you, not just psychopaths.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Arnor on Friday December 20, 2013 @03:42PM (#6943862)
Very true. Still, when you are aware of a particular propensity for manipulation, it is prudent to tread carefully.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by DanBC on Saturday December 21, 2013 @05:16AM (#6946334)
But psychopaths are particularly effective at it, and lack the boundaries that stop other people from being as good at lying.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by undoware on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:42PM (#6943150)
vanderzwan: I'm intentionally dealing with public-paranoia stereotypes: The pedophile on the hunt; the crack dealer at the schoolyard; etc. etc. I meant 'pedophile', and used this charged word, specifically to pick out how our reactions often blind us; but in doing so, I myself equivocated between illness and criminality. Ew. Thanks for catching that.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by vanderZwan on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:37PM (#6943117)
I'm not sure if I would lump in "successful criminal" - which implies doing something criminal - with a mental sickness (sexual attraction to children) that may or may not actually be acted upon.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by DanBC on Saturday December 21, 2013 @04:53PM (#6948229)
lots of successful criminals are lousy liars. I'm not sure what your point is?

Certainly lots of paedophiles are terrible liars.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by wrongc0ntinent on Friday December 20, 2013 @02:03PM (#6943278)
Guess which paradox applies here.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Guvante on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:15PM (#6942950)
To be fair, he is specifically pointing out bits of information that are designed to lead you a certain way, he is not just saying don't believe him.

Thus you can't debunk him just by saying "Don't believe him because he is a psychopath is insufficient".

If you want to pin all of his logic on that baseline theory (which would be stretching it), then your replacement no longer works, as crack dealers aren't known for being persuasive and manipulative in words in that way. Similar for most other distrusted groups.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by undoware on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:33PM (#6943088)
Of course crack dealers are manipulative and good at lying. The ones that aren't are caught. It's selected for.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by g8oz on Saturday December 21, 2013 @10:22AM (#6946850)
I don't think you know much about crack dealing.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by MarkPNeyer on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:16PM (#6942969)
additionally crack dealers and pedophiles are probably more likely to be sociopaths. i'd guess most groups gain 'distrusted' status because of the influence of sociopaths within them.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Guvante on Monday December 23, 2013 @05:23PM (#6956931)
Orthogonal to my point, and I would guess that your assumption is incorrect. Well known cases are probably sociopaths, due to the combination making them more interesting.

But we are both just conjecturing :).

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by MarkPNeyer on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:13PM (#6942935)
> If your position is that all convincing self-accounts by psychopath

He made no such generalization. He simply talked about this one self account.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by undoware on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:32PM (#6943077)
Good point, thanks Mark. :)

See, I positioned myself for not getting it quite right -- I can say, "this means I'm probably less psychopathic than you."

Monster! :D

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by MarkPNeyer on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:44PM (#6943162)
raaaarrrr
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by barrkel on Friday December 20, 2013 @10:36PM (#6945612)
Actually, the comment you're referring to just suggests people take a step back from the material of the letter, and look at its overall effect: one of self-aggrandizement.

Once you see that, the material of the letter takes on a different aspect. Even if it weren't from a psychopath, it would be enlightening.

(I have other issues with your use of naive logic based on non-probabilistic propositions, but you may be doing that to dumb it down for the audience.)

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by sciguy77 on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:59PM (#6943250)
This is why I love HN. I learned something new from your comment, thank you.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by southpawgirl on Friday December 20, 2013 @02:35PM (#6943457)
Undoware, all very well explained; I couldn't agree more.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Pompky on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:21AM (#6942152)
Yes it is true. This is a very manipulative and actually non substantive, shallow piece of writing. It smacks of the superiority complex and has the shiny flawless gleam of the narcissist in the psychopath. It is just too slick and seamless. That is what gives away the fact of his psychopathy. In fact he is one of the worst forms of psychopath I think, which are those that actually believe what they are telling others about themselves. They feel themselves sincere, but they are not because inevitably the predator cimes out and takes his victim because thats how his mind unconsciously sets everything up to than end badly for the other at the hands of his destruction. Beware the psychopath that sincerely believes his own lies. Its very easy to get sucked in by pseudosincerity fueled by self conviction. These are the pernicious psuychopaths, not the ones delinerately trying to mislead you.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Pompky on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:33AM (#6942228)
In fact, why this young mans treatment likely exacerbated his psychopathic acumen, is because it gave him an entirely knrw language to dissimulate with. Why the psychopath is untreatable, is because it is a "lying" disorder. The essence of psychopathy is profound dishonesty. It is an inversion of meaning, an inversion of the order, where good becomes bad and bad becomes good. Where kindness is reformulatrd through the process of the ultimate lie, which is a perversion in the thinking processes. Evil triumphs. It is strong and good. The psychopath has only the machinery of perverde reasoning to use to cogitate reality. Thus he lies not only to others but neecessarily lies to himself about himself. Because of this endohenous
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Pompky on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:04PM (#6942413)
...continued due to mobile phone limitations endogebous dishonesty. He is intrinsically incapable of telling the truth. Thus he cannot accurstely self assess He can nevet formulate a truthful thought due to this profound mental perversion that is the hallmark of this disorder. He has only acquired more slick, refined and better labguage to dissimulate others as s "treatment success." Thats why so many of you were duped into feeling enpathy for him. He is simply pullung for ut in you, but he has no empathy for you. It is alk just a gane for him. There is nothing genuine about his letter. Feelibg empathy for a psychopstg is a fools gane. Thst is luje having the profoubd mental perversion that is the hallmark of this pernicious disorder. He only coopts ndw slicker, more refined language as a "successfully therspized
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by PavlovsCat on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:16PM (#6942967)
I took the liberty to correct the phone typos in your post, sorry if I missed any:

---------------

In fact, why this young man's treatment likely exacerbated his psychopathic acumen, is because it gave him an entirely new language to dissimulate with. Why the psychopath is untreatable, is because it is a "lying" disorder. The essence of psychopathy is profound dishonesty. It is an inversion of meaning, an inversion of the order, where good becomes bad and bad becomes good. Where kindness is reformulated through the process of the ultimate lie, which is a perversion in the thinking processes. Evil triumphs. It is strong and good. The psychopath has only the machinery of perverse reasoning to use to cogitate reality. Thus he lies not only to others but necessarily lies to himself about himself.

Because of this endogenous dishonesty, he is intrinsically incapable of telling the truth. Thus he cannot accurately self-assess. He can never formulate a truthful thought due to this profound mental perversion that is the hallmark of this disorder. He has only acquired more slick, refined and better labguage to dissimulate others as a "treatment success." Thats why so many of you were duped into feeling empathy for him. He is simply pulling for it in you, but he has no empathy for you. It is all just a game for him. There is nothing genuine about his letter. Feeling empathy for a psychopath is a fools game. That is like having the profound mental perversion that is the hallmark of this pernicious disorder. He only coopts new slicker, more refined language as a "successfully therapized".

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by hexasquid on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:56AM (#6942362)
I was fascinated by the setup, where we are shown a letter which begins with a request to keep it in confidence.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by MakeUsersWant on Saturday December 21, 2013 @11:14AM (#6946974)
> That is what gives away the fact of his psychopathy. In fact he is one of the worst forms of psychopath I think, which are those that actually believe what they are telling others about themselves.

I disagree: People who believe their own lies eventually get caught off guard by the discrepancies between their lies and life. That leads to their downfall.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by n09n on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:00PM (#6942861)
Those are also the ones that are actually sincere. If you insist on assuming the worst about others all the time, it's your loss.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by LaGrange on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:21PM (#6943002)
You don't have to lie to manipulate. That's the scary beauty in that piece: it's almost certainly sincere, but it doesn't stop it from being manipulative and misleading.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by shanusmagnus on Friday December 20, 2013 @05:51PM (#6944656)
What is most fascinating to me is the fact that posts like the parent will delve into the game theoretic motivations of psychopathy as if the psychopath were some wholly unique flavor of creature operating under behavioral algorithms never before seen, when the truth is that your neurotypical, salt of the Earth Johnny Lunchpail is doing the same thing, except on a different timescale, and with the utility functions ingrained into heuristics like 'empathy' and 'compassion' and the like.

Unless you believe that your motivational orientation is made of some magical pixie dust handed down by the Holy Ghost, you should keep in mind that your instincts, your sense of morality and right and wrong and all those gut feelings are engendered by a truly massive utility computation; your feelings of selflessness as you drop the coins in the bell ringer's jar, your protectiveness toward your children, your lesser protectiveness toward your more distant kinship relations, all of it is equivalently cold-blooded. It's just dispersed enough that you don't see it for what it is.

So when you stop talking to your friend because he's annoying, or you don't give money to that homeless guy because you've already gave enough money, and maybe he's a drunk; and you buy a nice present for your nephew but not your coworker's kid, and you think it's best that your grandmother died because she was suffering so terribly, you're a psycopath, too. There's just a lot of epiphenomenal stuff larded on top of it.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Houshalter on Friday December 20, 2013 @06:15PM (#6944774)
So because a person is not themselves a perfect altruist, they are no better than a person who has no empathy or morality whatsoever?
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by girvo on Saturday December 21, 2013 @12:16AM (#6945871)
No the point is that it's far more complex than that.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Houshalter on Saturday December 21, 2013 @02:40AM (#6946103)
More complex than what? That they don't have any sense of morality? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by doctorfoo on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:48AM (#6942311)
Funnily enough, I didn't feel any empathy at all. Does this make me a psychopath too? ;)

Instead, reading it gave me the impression of somebody obsessed with themselves - somebody with a superiority complex. Nothing more, nothing less, and I've met plenty of people who have that in different amounts. But maybe that is what psychopathy is?

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by jamesbritt on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:18PM (#6942522)
Does this make me a psychopath too? ;)

I hope not because I had a similar reaction to the letter.

Made me wonder if this person is indeed changed, or if there's a just new manipulation game underway.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by andy_boot on Friday December 20, 2013 @08:09PM (#6945214)
Although it is somewhat confusing: Worrying that you may be a psychopath is a sign that you aren't.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by southpawgirl on Friday December 20, 2013 @02:12PM (#6943322)
> I'm still amazed at how effective it is at garnering empathy from the reader and cultivating a sense that the author is an impressive individual who has triumphed over adversity after a great struggle.

You might be right, but you seem to accuse the writer of a hidden agenda because he tries to gain the sympathy of the reader. If he didn't try at all, would you see callousness and cold detachment (and therefore a psychopathic trait) in this? What would constitute for you a honest, non-manipulative account of the same facts described in the post? How should it have been written to be consistent with the 'psycho no more' scenario?

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by VladimirGolovin on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:02AM (#6942006)
> It's both impressive and admirable that the author was able to not only admit that he needed therapy but to press on long enough to make therapy work for himself in an effective manner.

If it's true, that is. Pathological lying is a part of Hare Psychopathy Checklist. The entire article may well be totally made up.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by kbenson on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:35PM (#6942666)
While I can't dispute the wisdom of being leery of a manipulator, I can't help feeling sad for anyone in a situation like this that actually does change. If you expose yourself as having a penchant for manipulation, how can you ever truly break that stigma. It's similar to the brain in a vat problem.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by girvo on Saturday December 21, 2013 @12:24AM (#6945887)
I am an ex heroin addict who lied and cheated and took advantage of people. I've been completely clean for a year an a half, and people still treat me like I'm the same person. Which is annoying at times, and I feel like some of the people around me will never change their opinion regardless of what I do.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by mcescalante on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:10AM (#6942054)
This is a great analysis of the letter. I, like you, was amazed by how empathetic I felt towards the writer by the end. I wonder how much time was put into working the letter into what we read vs. the first thing the author wrote down. Best of all, reminds me how powerful good writing is :)
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by PavlovsCat on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:06PM (#6942891)
It reminded me, as most things do, of the writings of Erich Fromm... what he said about sadism, that is. The desire to look down on, control and/or hurt others seems like a "consolation prize", like the highest you can achieve when you can't really live constructively, when you're deathly afraid of uncertainty and new things. The need to be able to strategically assess flaws in others to exploit ultimately speaks of fear, or at least lack of vision/capability. I mean, just imagine being around people you love wherever you are... all the stuff others work for without ever getting it, you have all the time, for free; welcome to compassion, step right in! :D

Also, maybe I am wrong, but I don't think there are people who "just are" psychopaths? I mean, if it's chemical/hormonal, it could theoretically fixed that way... and if it's not, then it might not be "fixable", but it's not magic either, and layers and layers and layers of defense, redirections and rationalizations are expected. Nobody wants to accept that the center of their pearl is some banal, useless, accidental piece of dirt someone else or the wind put there. But that's usually what it is, I think. And pearls can kill, they're not pretty at all. They're like a scab turned cancer.

I agree that considering psychopaths as some spooky "other" is silly, it's all a matter of degree, and I guess we only call it psychopathic once it crosses a threshold. That is, I doubt anyone here can claim they never used someone, or calculated more coldly than they let on, or looked down on sentimentality when they didn't feel sentimental about a particular thing. Or maybe I'm projecting, I don't know. I know putting others down because I felt crappy, and for me that letter sounds like a much more elaborate and Machiavellian version, but still kinda the same.

TL;DR: The thing about the powerful is that they're not, that's why they need power, and of course the alligator part of the brain gets real good if that's all you use. Use your mammal brain to see what a small achievement that really is.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by rsanheim on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:18PM (#6942527)
Fantastic analysis.

Also a fantastic example of why real world psychopaths are so dangerous. Most don't kill or commit any serious crimes. They just win people over and draw them in, smoothly and very easily. Until it is to the psychopath's advantage (or impulse, really) to use, hurt, and leave others behind them.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by n09n on Friday December 20, 2013 @12:57PM (#6942840)
That's not why they are dangerous, it's why they aren't. You could just as easily say that rich people, or charismatic people, or exceptionally intelligent people are dangerous, and it would be just as wrong (or just as correct, if you insist on thinking that way). Sure, greater potential overall translates to greater potential for evil. But it translates just as well into greater potential for good.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Florin_Andrei on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:59PM (#6943249)
Good points.

Here's something even more fascinating, and surely much more controversial - now re-read that letter, and try and count how many times you hear in it echoes from Ayn Rand's characters, or from the writer herself.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by sneak on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:05AM (#6942025)
This comment sort of reads like Ash describing the alien to Ripley. I like it.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by dhimes on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:55AM (#6942352)
I upvoted this because I also was sucked into watching those flicks again recently as they are playing on one of the premium cable channels. I didn't mean to do it- they just grab me. For the milionth time...
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by pwm on Friday December 20, 2013 @02:00PM (#6943255)
One thing I find interesting about this topic is that as far as I know conventional wisdom says psychopathy is incurable, and comments here implicitly or explicitly seem to agree on this. Neuroplasticity, at least in my interpretation, says that there is an observable feedback loop between the biological structure of our brain and our thoughts/feelings/actions, ie. our "mind". If someone with characteristic of psychopathy, or any mental disorder labelled as incurable for that matter, consciously decides that he/she want to change his/her behavioural patterns then theoretically it is possible. Now, in a way all I did was rephrase my question into how conscious are we regarding our behaviour? Conscious enough to change it? :)
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by sliverstorm on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:48PM (#6943181)
he was too incredible of a case for anyone but the highest-ranking therapist to handle

I was actually waiting for a reveal of something like, "And I discovered the reason I connected with the top therapist so well was because she was a closet psychopath!"

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by southpawgirl on Friday December 20, 2013 @04:30PM (#6944171)
The detail of the highest-ranking therapist, plus others -the need for validation, the fact that the writer declares to be keen on interpersonal connections, the general air of self-involvement, plus the simple act of dishing personal stuff in public - makes me think more of narcissism than psychopathy.

(IANA psychiatrist, needless to say)

In fact, I suspect that most people who flaunt their psychopathy on the internet are in fact narcissists. The two psychos I've met in my life couldn't have cared less for attention from the public at large or validation of their struggles. I can't really imagine them writing an open letter about their condition, an act that doesn't provide tangible control, or money, nor damages an enemy. On the other hand, narcissists needs validation and attention and writing an open letter is attention-seeking behaviour (which we are involuntarily feeding).

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by mercer on Saturday December 21, 2013 @12:51AM (#6945928)
Could he perhaps be both?
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by southpawgirl on Saturday December 21, 2013 @06:24AM (#6946428)
It's totally possible. I think comorbidity it's called 'malignant narcissism'.
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by Havoc on Friday December 20, 2013 @01:54PM (#6943220)
You might not be all that far off the mark. I'd imagine people who fall somewhere within the dark triad [1] would connect better with a psychopath, even if they are not one themselves.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by calroc on Friday December 20, 2013 @06:43PM (#6944911)
This is, of course, the only safe (for the speaker) way to admit to normals what s/he is. Otherwise it is torches and pitchforks with you people. (Normal humans are far more frightening than any psychopath. ;-)
Re:Letter From A Psychopath by scotty79 on Friday December 20, 2013 @03:22PM (#6943727)
I haven't bought any of it. Guy seems to be just full of himself. Maybe it's just because I'm also a keen observer and bit psychopathic myself.

Nah. I'm kidding. I'm just generally distrustful of words and people that utter them.

Re:Letter From A Psychopath by bicx on Friday December 20, 2013 @11:41PM (#6945795)
After reading these comments, I'm fairly certain my cat is a psychopath.