News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by brightball on Saturday August 22, 2026 @03:31PM (#49403023)
I get that statistics can be manipulated but...

https://www.ismworld.org/supply-management-news-and-reports/...

> Economic activity in the manufacturing sector expanded in July for the seventh consecutive month, say the nation’s supply executives in the latest ISM® Manufacturing PMI® Report.

> The report was issued today by Susan Spence, MBA, Chair of the Institute for Supply Management® (ISM®) Manufacturing Business Survey Committee.

> “The Manufacturing PMI® registered 55.6 percent in July, 2.3 percentage points above the June figure and the highest reading since May 2022 (55.9 percent). The overall economy continued in expansion for the 21st month in a row.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by edgyquant on Saturday August 22, 2026 @04:14PM (#49403414)
Every founder I know in manufacturing is thankful for this admin. There is a ton of invested interest in not having tariffs or a pro-manufacturing industrial policy as a lot of people got rich shipping it overseas. For some reason this is all ignored because the president is a very unpopular person (for obvious reasons)
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by atoav on Saturday August 22, 2026 @04:20PM (#49403482)
Really? I know people in the hardware space for whom the tariffs have been an unmitigated disaster. They had to go through a lot to not lose their customer base outside the US. I have seen many US-people with businesses swearing about that admin, especially the smaller ones.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by A_D_E_P_T on Saturday August 22, 2026 @04:38PM (#49403662)
Uh, I'm in manufacturing in the US and EU. Can confirm the tariffs are a total disaster. It's increasingly difficult and expensive to ship raw materials and components to the US!

"Just find US suppliers."

It's not that simple. There are a lot of things that simply aren't made in the US. (The majority of tool steels, all titanium alloys, everything made of tungsten, and I could go on all day.)

Besides, dealing with the Chinese is like life on easy mode. Handshake agreements are always respected. In most cases service and support are 24/7. Importantly for QoL, they never make you fill out a dozen forms, pay for a D&B report, "let's get on a Zoom call to touch base," and all of that nonsense. American B2B firms aren't really into customer service, as a general rule, I think.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by themaninthedark on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:49PM (#49404205)
Until that handshake deal isn't respected despite you doing everything right i.e. know supplier, know broker.

https://youtu.be/as2KoDtsS_0?is=3H1TVc2PZPbGLdPK

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by esseph on Saturday August 22, 2026 @04:31PM (#49403585)
Everybody I know in construction, especially larger scale, is losing their minds because nobody can bid on jobs without risking loosing their shirts. Tariffs could hit somewhere between the bid and the time the job starts and could increase material costs by 150-200% and could cause more delays. It's been like this for 2 years or so and they're losing their minds.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by shoopadoop on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:01PM (#49403848)
Tariffs have been hell for marina renovation work I'm associated with. Things paid for well in advance have exploded way past their budgets thanks to all the raw material costing so much more. Thanks to Trump.

Even the MAGA folks I have to deal with are bitter about it. They still voted for Trump but they can't deny the cause and effect. I think they'd still vote for Trump though. I don't understand how they manage to deal with the cognitive dissonance.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by realo on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:08PM (#49403899)
Some kind of "derangement syndrome "?

It's funny... laugh.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by solid_fuel on Saturday August 22, 2026 @08:31PM (#49405192)
Turns out, the real “TDS” was in the morons who thought a treasonous conman would fix the country this whole time. Almost like his critics were fucking right.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by SadErn on Saturday August 22, 2026 @08:58PM (#49405348)
Turns out all the overly political people are annoying. I can't imagine having a conversation with someone like this for more than five minutes.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by solid_fuel on Saturday August 22, 2026 @11:37PM (#49405879)
> Turns out all the overly political people are annoying.

Feel free to come back when you have something to add.

> I can't imagine having a conversation with someone like this for more than five minutes.

Judging from this and all your other dead comments, you don't seem inclined to have a conversation at all.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by esseph on Saturday August 22, 2026 @11:07PM (#49405800)
Like the people running the country?
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by baby_souffle on Saturday August 22, 2026 @06:52PM (#49404639)
> They still voted for Trump but they can't deny the cause and effect.

I'm sure fox news will give them some Olympic tier training in mental gymnastics and they'll be blaming - with certainty and conviction - brown people, democrats, trans people and/or women in no time.

> I don't understand how they manage to deal with the cognitive dissonance.

A family friend recently sent me this and it's been helpful to wrap my head around some of the naked hypocrisy:

``` The reason they aren’t more bothered by Q constantly getting things wrong, why they aren’t more bothered by the extreme inconsistencies and outright contradictions, by the claims that are just materially wrong, is because it gives them power over others who are bound by something as weak and flimsy as reality.

They claim to be against corruption while hanging their hopes on an openly corrupt man, and that naked hypocrisy is the point.

They will effortlessly carve out an exception because it makes them exceptional. They engage in wild hypocrisy as an act of domination, adhering to something demonstrably untrue out of spite, because they believe that power belongs to those with the greatest will to take it, and what greater sign of will than the ability to override truth?

Their will is a hammer that they are useing to beat reality itself into a shape of their choosing, a simple world where reality is exactly what it looks like through their eyes, devoid of complexity, devoid of change, where they are right and their enemies are silent.

They are trying to build a Flat Earth. ```

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by shoopadoop on Saturday August 22, 2026 @08:48PM (#49405288)
Well said. It's a psychological defense mechanism to cope with the anxiety of their existence. It makes no sense because it comes from the amygdala.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by specialist on Saturday August 22, 2026 @09:03PM (#49405365)
Which in turn largely forms identity.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by deeg on Saturday August 22, 2026 @09:01PM (#49405359)
I think it's simpler. He hates the same people they hate and he's willing to ignore the constitution to bring pain to those people. As long as that's true they'll put up with the corruption.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by switchbak on Saturday August 22, 2026 @09:18PM (#49405411)
I think you’re ascribing malice where stupidity would suffice. Raw tribal stupidity.

And of course there’s those that know exactly how wrong and awful this is, but support it out of self interest anyway (eg: Marco Rubio). That’s even worse.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by Tanoc on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:32PM (#49404074)
Spite for others can overpower any self interest. If the person has been shaped by past experiences to rely on spiteful actions as a coping mechanism they will struggle to do anything else. The reward centers in their brain respond more to the disadvantage their actions have caused the other party rather than any advantage they create for themselves. Rebecca Kazinka's actually been doing studies on this for a few years now if you want some reading.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by Terr_ on Saturday August 22, 2026 @07:04PM (#49404716)
I'm certainly not alone in trying to make sense of it all without completely destroying my faith in averaged-out humanity.

A hypothesis: The "spite" is secondary to their insecurity and fear of not belonging to a "safe" group, in a world they assume has vicious and unavoidable hierarchies or cruelty. Having the out-group hurt (or even just baffled) occurs in service of that.

Professing and supporting stupid beliefs is "loyalty", an expensive (and therefore prominent) signal of membership. Like tattooing Dear Leader's name on one's forehead. It's less an opinion one holds and more a song they sing to fit in with the flock.

I find that focus on insecurity and loneliness and fear—versus the reward of belonging—a bit more comprehensible than spite as its own reward.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by specialist on Saturday August 22, 2026 @09:06PM (#49405380)
Preach.

AKA shibboleths

Further, the rhetoric creates a permission structure which allows (enables?) people to be their worst selves.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by specialist on Saturday August 22, 2026 @08:59PM (#49405350)
Probably the same reason as everyone else (voting for Trump).

Why Farmers Voted for Trump https://youtube.com/watch?v=badGHJLDpP8

Followup https://youtube.com/watch?v=rZQxCvbLG6U

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by gyanchawdhary on Saturday August 22, 2026 @04:45PM (#49403727)
it's remarkable how much presentation can distort ppls judgment .. they'll actually admire narcissistic behaviour as long as its wrapped in a polished and presentable package (the ex PM of cananda) and yet label the less polished, ill mannered person with common sense as the narcissist ..
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by switchbak on Saturday August 22, 2026 @09:23PM (#49405443)
Who exactly is this ill mannered counterpart to Trudeau? Please tell me you’re not talking about Trump here?

Trudeau was a colossal cluster f of a prime minister, but he’s nowhere in the same ballpark.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by gyanchawdhary on Saturday August 22, 2026 @09:52PM (#49405540)
really ? one resigned after turning his country into a dumping ground through disastrous immigration policies .. while the other restricted immigration .. put his own citizens first .. and generally shook up a complacent West .. and you think ther are not in the same ballpark? Let me ask you, in what ballpark would you put Trump in ? up there wkth Hitler ? Stalin ? You would wouldn’t you ?
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by thiht on Saturday August 22, 2026 @04:47PM (#49403735)
> Every founder I know in manufacturing is thankful for this admin

Are they MAGA?

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by driverdan on Saturday August 22, 2026 @04:49PM (#49403755)
What are they manufacturing? It must not involve any metal. Due to the tariffs on metals manufacturing costs have increased significantly for anyone using them.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by lobsterthief on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:52PM (#49404226)
It must not involve electrical components either, or any of the other inputs the US cannot produce at the scale or price-point of other countries.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by MisterTea on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:52PM (#49404219)
As someone who grew up in a machine shop, still in manufacturing, and have my own hobby shop, its gross how much raw materials cost. I can get finished parts shipped from China cheaper then I can buy the raw material here in the US. I almost wept looking at over $500 for a simple 2x4 foot sheet of 1/2 inch thick 6061 aluminum.

Inconel is through the roof and I know a few aerospace clients who are MONTHS behind due to shortages and bonkers material costs. Like holding up the military supply chain which is ludicrous. This admin is brain dead.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by sandworm101 on Saturday August 22, 2026 @06:59PM (#49404689)
It is going to get worse. Iron/steel and aluminum are some of the most common elements on the planet. They are literally everywhere. The cost is in the energy for production, and to a lesser extent transport. But energy is not only going to become more expensive but actually hard to get (thank you again AI). Canada has energy, from empty land for wind/solar/hydro, to oil, to enormous piles of uranium ore. That is not an enemy worth making.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by nine_k on Saturday August 22, 2026 @08:15PM (#49405088)
I remember people taking about smelting aluminum as a way to put overproduced solar electricity to a good use. Would come in very handy now.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by sandworm101 on Saturday August 22, 2026 @08:35PM (#49405221)
It would, but smelting is not a process that likes being started and stopped. Once furnaces and other bits and pieces are up to temperature they want to stay there. Thermal expansion is a thing, but also letting them all cool down is throwing energy away. And iron workers don't like sitting around "on call" waiting for energy prices to swing enough to justify going to work.

Same too with customers. The people buying bulk metal need is when they need it. They don't want to wait around, literally, for the winds to change.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by inigyou on Monday August 24, 2026 @05:27AM (#49417280)
Aluminium smelting is an electrochemistry process.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by defrost on Monday August 24, 2026 @05:38AM (#49417347)
Can you expand on what relevance this has to the pragmatic thermal process based point raised in the comment above yours?

The aluminium smelters I've had contact with have all avoided any shutdowns (back up generators, etc) because any significant breakdown in continuous processing involves several days of tear down in order to restart.

I am literally within 20 feet of someone who worked 5 years as a general foreman in charge of the smelter portion of the Portland aluminium smelter* who is not embracing the idea that this a process you can just turn off and turn on again later w/out a large chunk of effort.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_aluminium_smelter

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by inigyou on Monday August 24, 2026 @08:13AM (#49418626)
The relevance is that you would have a base load to keep the system hot which is separate from the electricity that does the work.

I think at a steel smelter, since the heat does the work, they aren't as easily separable. You would still use less energy at the times when you processed less metal.

Aluminium smelters were traditionally some of the biggest loads on the grid. They were built near hydroelectric dams and had contracts with electricity providers to absorb excess energy and to pause operations on short notice when other demand is high. In exchange for this they get it very cheap, which is good because they need a lot of it. Variable energy supply is not new to them.

Now I've never worked at either and I'm just spitballing ideas on the internet, but you haven't either and you are too.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by MisterTea on Saturday August 22, 2026 @09:32PM (#49405480)
If only there was a way to replace a BOF or arc furnace with Nvidia Blackwells.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by Freedom2 on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:54PM (#49404235)
Perhaps their founder contacts are in the ragebait and clickbait manufacturing business.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by edgyquant on Monday August 24, 2026 @03:05PM (#49424418)
Or perhaps people are thinking longer than you and realize it’s a problem America isn’t domestically producing these things? I can not stand that trade offs and thinking about domestic production cant be done because otherwise smart engineers pretend like the economy is black and white and thus if a price goes up due to a lack of domestic supply that will always be the case. Industrial policy is designed to fix that, it will not be magically fixed overnight but neither will it be fixed if we do nothing and call people idiots when they try things.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by conception on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:01PM (#49403846)
Then every founder you know has no idea how policy should be done. There’s a difference between having a pro manufacturing policy and applying tariffs and trade wars ad hoc based on how you feel slighted and giving no warning to any businesses nor having any sort of stability to your plans for any sort of appreciable time in the future. Also, the whole announced news on Friday changed it on the next week so that whoever is betting on the stock market can make some money also is not great for a pro manufacturing base. It’s all a grift and your buddies are dupes to believe in it.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by edgyquant on Monday August 24, 2026 @03:06PM (#49424445)
Policy is about trade offs, you can disagree if they’re worth it but that isn’t what people do. They instead dig in their heels and pretend policies designed to incentivize local production don’t work because local production doesn’t exist without them. That’s the point of them, and it takes time.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by archonis on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:42PM (#49404156)
What's your sample size?
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by lobsterthief on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:54PM (#49404236)
What’s your sample size? Unless it’s 30+ politically-neutral manufacturing founders, you’re citing anecdotal evidence.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by dominotw on Saturday August 22, 2026 @06:06PM (#49404327)
why aren't these comments on top comment on this post saying this with no evidence "Manufacturing is still declining, not returning and a man "
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by solid_fuel on Saturday August 22, 2026 @08:28PM (#49405174)
Probably because manufacturing is still declining, not returning.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by lawsthro0532 on Saturday August 22, 2026 @04:33PM (#49403620)
PMI is a sentiment survey of 400 manufacturing executives. Vibes only.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by pinkmuffinere on Saturday August 22, 2026 @07:32PM (#49404881)
Are you saying PMI is a survey of 400 manufacturing executives about the status of manufacturing, and you don't think it carries meaningful signal about the status of manufacturing? I wonder what you think _would_ carry meaningful signal, if you're not satisfied by asking the people that are doing said manufacturing?
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by samrus on Saturday August 22, 2026 @07:53PM (#49404995)
Hard numbers. Like output, or investment made. Like number of cars, tons of steel, etc. Things that actually reflect reality
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by lostlogin on Saturday August 22, 2026 @08:06PM (#49405053)
> Things that actually reflect reality

YMMV - Soviet Russia comes to mind. Still better than ‘feels’.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by sxyuan on Saturday August 22, 2026 @08:28PM (#49405172)
Executives aren't exactly the ones doing all the manufacturing. If you want to look at employment in manufacturing, the most you can say is that's it's stabilized after the first year of this administration: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1XUKx
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by dominotw on Saturday August 22, 2026 @06:05PM (#49404321)
ironic given top comment on this thread is pure vibes. interesting you chose to repond with this "vibes" comment to this instead.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by Dylan16807 on Saturday August 22, 2026 @06:08PM (#49404343)
While the top comment is pretty vibey, it's not presenting itself as firm statistics.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by epolanski on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:55PM (#49404244)
Manufacturing has never really declined in US, not in absolute terms.

It's simply facing the same fate of agriculture: automation.

Politicians want to sell to people they can bring back manufacturing jobs, but it's not like in china they making cars or batteries or chips by hand. It's all automated everywhere.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by throwthrowrow on Saturday August 22, 2026 @07:36PM (#49404892)

  > it's not like china they making cars or batteries or chips by hand
That was true a while back but less so now. Chinese companies are moving to "dark factories", which can function autonomously without humans (hence no need for lighting).

https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtificialInteligence/comments/1jci...

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by tialaramex on Saturday August 22, 2026 @09:18PM (#49405412)
I think you've misunderstood the sense of the comment you're quoting

They mean it is not the case that in China they make these things by hand.

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by californical on Saturday August 22, 2026 @06:16PM (#49404400)
Have you seen that SmarterEveryDay video about trying to make a grill brush in the US? That obviously would’ve been possible in the US 50 years ago but is borderline impossible today because every manufacturer laughs in your face and just says “make it in China, we can’t help you”
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by t-writescode on Saturday August 22, 2026 @06:19PM (#49404416)
This is the most recent of those videos:

https://youtu.be/vS6HEes8daw

(edit: seriously? Who downvotes this. The preceeding comment mentions a video, I share the source, wtf. Don't shoot the messenger.)

Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by throwitaway222 on Saturday August 22, 2026 @08:07PM (#49405058)
Paid actors mostly.
Re:Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade... by michaelt on Saturday August 22, 2026 @06:17PM (#49404402)
> Manufacturing has never really declined in US, not in absolute terms.

Is a factory making 2GB RAM chips twice as productive as one making 1GB RAM sticks?

Because if manufacturing output is merely constant while chipmakers’ output has skyrocketed (on paper, as PCs went from 32MB RAM to 32GB over a few decades), other manufacturing output must have fallen a great deal.