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Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by ggm on Sunday March 09, 2025 @12:48AM (#43306613)
Increasingly hard to get Mg tablets without Vitamin B and so increasingly easy to get excess B12. Australian formulations of magnesium sold by Swisse don't have B. The same branding in HK does. I wrote to them about it, interesting response: "check the therapeutic goods administration site for canonical ingredients we don't commit to labelling the jar" they do list the neutral filler and Mg they just don't say "no B12"

B is typically included for synergistic uptake reasons I believe.

Excess B12 is really bad. Neuropathy. Considering you take Mg to get rid of muscle cramps (pain, conducted by nerves), a bit ironic. It's increasingly common in Australia now.

Excess Mg is unlikely. I think the body chucks it out in Urine pretty rapidly. I still take it, the cramps after sport return within a few months when I stop. I have a fruit and veg rich diet, I get plenty of natural Mg and K which is also good for muscle cramps. Age related insufficiency I suspect (63) malabsorption comes with age.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by chinathrow on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:19AM (#43307223)
My doc said there is no scientific proof that Mg works against cramps. Is that true?
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by haltcatchfire on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:50AM (#43307387)
As always with supplements, a deficiency might cause the issue (cramps in this case) and the supplement gets you back to normal levels, preventing cramps. If you’re experiencing cramps but don’t have a magnesium deficiency, taking magnesium supplements won’t make the cramps go away.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by sschueller on Sunday March 09, 2025 @07:25AM (#43308091)
When I have a cramp in my calf and I take mg in powder form it goes away within a minute. I am also no longer able to trigger a cramp which I can before taking mg. I don't think a placebo would work that quick and that well.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by PeterStuer on Sunday March 09, 2025 @05:57AM (#43307707)
From experience it does work in cases where through intensive training and very high 'sweating' both from cardio training and saunas you temd to lose a lot of minerals.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by ggm on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:24AM (#43307251)
I'd always believe a doctor over anonymous internet experiences. If your doctor thinks it's not helpful, follow their advice. I found my cramps stopped, but anecdata is not evidence.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by askvictor on Sunday March 09, 2025 @05:30PM (#43314076)
While _on the whole_ I would side with doctors over random people on the Internet, I've had a number of cases where the doctor has been outright wrong, whether misdiagnosis, or not being up to date with current research.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by toast0 on Monday March 10, 2025 @12:37AM (#43317066)
The doctor didn't say it doesn't work. Just that it's not scientific.

But if your lived experience says it works, it doesn't really need to have scientific evidence.

The real question is if there is evidence that relevant doesea of magnesium supplements are harmful, and if so, how those harms compare to the cramps you're experiencing.

There's all sorts of unscientific stuff out there, some of which is harmful. But if it's not harmful, it's worth trying.

If you get frequent cramps and you don't want to try magnesium supplements, you could try going out of your way to eat more foods that are known to be high in magnesium, most of which are generally considered healthy and there you go; choosing to eat a bit more leafy greens doesn't feel risky unless you've got an alergy. Having a banana to get potasium should be fine for most too, unless the fruit sugar is a problem or if there's an allergy.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by oweiler on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:56AM (#43307416)
When I started running I had horrible cramps and the mg made them much less severe.

Running for a year now, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by ddorian43 on Sunday March 09, 2025 @06:35AM (#43307852)
Go train hard in heat/summer until you get cramps. Then get electolytes to fix it in a couple of minutes.

Source: I can reproduce this on demand.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by mantas on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:45AM (#43307359)
But it works for me and I know more anecdata cases.

Maybe it depends on technical cause of what seems to be cramps. And maybe it helps indirectly by helping some other process in the body. But in ny experience there’s direct correlation between magnesium intake and cramps and nail health.

I’ve a feeling genetics may be involved since my kid also has similar tendencies. And doctor we went to for his night cramps did suggest magnesium which worked. So whether there’s research or not, doctors do suggest it and it does seem to help at least in some cases.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by borgdefenser on Sunday March 09, 2025 @10:14AM (#43309186)
I mean you should take magnesium if you are deficient on a blood test. If you take too much magnesium you will just get diarrhea.

The non-blood test way would be to take magnesium until you get diarrhea and then take less but that is obviously not a pleasant experience.

I take magnesium because it is really obvious when I track micro nutrients that I don't get enough in my diet. It mostly depends though on how much spinach I am eating.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by canucker2016 on Sunday March 09, 2025 @08:37PM (#43315559)
Blood test may not be reliable indicator of magnesium in the body.

from https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6316205/

    Of clinical importance, around 0.3% of total body magnesium is found in serum. Thus, total and/or ionized magnesium concentrations measured in plasma or serum are not reliable markers of total magnesium levels in the body; as serum magnesium does not reflect the total magnesium content at the tissue or organs, and is also a poor indicator of intracellular magnesium content.

    Emerging evidence suggests that the serum magnesium/calcium quotient (0.4 is optimal, 0.36–0.28 too low) is a more practical and sensitive indicator of magnesium status and/or turnover, than the serum magnesium level alone [19]. In chronic latent magnesium deficiency, magnesium levels in the blood are within a normal range, despite there being severely depleted magnesium content in the tissues and bones. Therefore, using magnesium levels in the blood to determine total magnesium levels in the body can result in underestimation of magnesium deficiency in healthy and diseased populations. Recent studies have shown that individuals with serum magnesium levels around 1.82 mg/dL (0.75 mmol/L) are most likely to have a magnesium deficiency, while those with serum magnesium level more than 2.07 mg/dL (0.85 mmol/L) are most likely to have adequate levels
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by astura on Monday March 10, 2025 @10:12AM (#43320858)
Magnesium deficiency causes muscle spasms and cramps. That's a fact.

If you're experiencing muscle cramps due to low magnesium then adding a supplement will almost certainly fix the problem.

If you're experiencing muscle cramps for another reason, it won't work, probably.

But supplements are cheap and low risk, so it's a good thing to try first.

A more accurate statement would be "there is no scientific proof that Mg works against cramps [absent a Mg deficiency]."

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by ikr678 on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @05:28AM (#43330703)
Last time I did a deep dive into this, found a few papers suggesting that it can be any salt imbalance (potassium, magnesium or calcium) that triggers cramps.

However, potassium and calcium are a lot more prevalent in standard diets so it's usually lack of magnesium that is the culprit.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by freedom_dev on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:20AM (#43307224)
Excess B12 is also very easily excreted in urine being a water-soluble vitamin so it's really hard to "overdose" on
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by ggm on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:23AM (#43307245)
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by viraptor on Sunday March 09, 2025 @05:18AM (#43307522)
It's still hard to get a high enough dose to dangerous level from other supplements. Bad b6 effects typically start over 500mg/day. Usual pills of just b6 are 100mg in countries that don't limit it otherwise. The reviews that I've read normally described the issues as going away within days of stopping.

I wish there was better research on this, because so far only weird isolated cases make the news.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by sizzle on Sunday March 09, 2025 @07:58PM (#43315261)
Yeah I just looked mine up they are 8mg b6 how are people hitting upper limits?
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by Havoc on Sunday March 09, 2025 @08:49PM (#43315672)
Amazon is Full of „high potency“ stuff cause idiots think bigger number better
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by toast0 on Monday March 10, 2025 @12:26AM (#43317009)
I'm willing to assume I'm non typical, but I definitely had temporary nerve pain effects from a B-complex supplement; I can't remember if I noticed that after the first night or the second; my spouse reported nothing like that though. Looking through my cabinet, looks like 50mg B6 pryidoxine HCl (which seems high compared to another brand I looked up and a sibling comment). Not sure why I kept those, tossed it out now.

But I was really just wanting B1 and a bit more shopping found drops (annoying) and tablets with only B1 and negligble other stuff.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by viraptor on Monday March 10, 2025 @07:15AM (#43319195)
Yeah, that's why I mentioned "typically" - there's always going to be someone processing things differently, or naturally at high levels.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by Projectiboga on Monday March 10, 2025 @12:35AM (#43317057)
And it is total, fortified foods add to the risk.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by viraptor on Monday March 10, 2025 @07:12AM (#43319168)
Food normally has amounts <1mg. Even fortified juices are <5mg. You'd have to really try hard to make any difference with them.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by Klonoar on Monday March 10, 2025 @12:00PM (#43321969)
Vegans can actually inadvertently stumble into this: a lot of tofu scramble recipes call for 2tbsp of nutritional yeast, and the bottles sold by e.g Braggs in America are heavily fortified.

Then it’s also used in cheese sauces, etc - to the point where it’s somewhat of a meme to just add it whenever you want umami. Then many vegans already take a B multi to handle B12.

Point of all this being that this particular diet can lead to overdosing on B6 without realizing it. Once I got myself a non fortified Nutritional Yeast for baking/cooking, I noticed changes in myself for the better.

Obligatory “I am not a doctor and YMMV”

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by dhedberg on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:21AM (#43307234)
> Excess B12 is really bad. Neuropathy.

Do you have any source for this? I can find some "it-might-be-bad" studies through a quick googling, but in general the idea seem to be that excess B12 is thought to be unproblematic ("it's just peed out").

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by ggm on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:24AM (#43307253)
B6 not B12. My bad.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by mft_ on Sunday March 09, 2025 @06:05AM (#43307740)
Maybe you should edit your original post?
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by ggm on Sunday March 09, 2025 @07:01AM (#43307960)
Nope. Locked
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by DavidPiper on Sunday March 09, 2025 @05:08AM (#43307470)
Can confirm, overdosing on Vitamin B6 is bad. Lots of very scary symptoms.

I accidentally poisoned myself with B6 from Magnesium tablets over the course of a year: https://davids.town/vitamin-b6-overdose (my levels were 38x the healthy range).

tl;dr: Always check your Magnesium for what else the tablet includes. If it contains Pyridoxine hydrochloride (i.e. Vitamin B6) or another Pyridoxine compound, find one that doesn't. Since then, Swisse is the only brand I've found that consistently sells "pure" Magnesium tablets here in Australia.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by sinuhe69 on Sunday March 09, 2025 @05:20AM (#43307543)
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by Sunspark on Monday March 10, 2025 @12:34AM (#43317048)
B-vitamins are water soluble..

I take 50mg a day in a bio-available form pyridoxal-5-phosphate. Consider this form instead.

I'm taking it because there is some genetic evidence that I would benefit from doing so. No neuropathies thus far but it's only been about a month and a half.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by DavidPiper on Monday March 10, 2025 @05:00AM (#43318304)
I wasn't even aware I was ingesting B6, I was just taking the tablets for the magnesium (it was one of the few with the full 440mg dose I was recommended).

Blood tests since then have shown that my B6 levels are fine with my usual diet, I don't take multivitamins or supplements anymore.

I don't know much about B6 beyond my own experiences with it, so all I can say is make sure you've discussed it with your GP, and be aware of the coasting effect if you do happen to develop any neuropathic symptoms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megavitamin-B6_syndrome

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by Sunspark on Monday March 10, 2025 @11:24AM (#43321620)
I have to admit I am troubled by reading all this including that it has a half-life.. I did have the assumption that water soluble meant that excess was eliminated out the same day as is the case with some things. I had literally never heard of this toxicity issue till last night. One problem in general is that supplements don't really come in a "smaller size" unless I guess, you get powder form instead of capsules. I will have to review the genetic data I have again.

Genetic data is useful to know really, especially for people with MTHFR mutations as many pathways get affected.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by Projectiboga on Monday March 10, 2025 @12:31AM (#43317033)
Both of those have od risk around daily of 250 mg B6, 250 mcg B12, I believe.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by ivankra on Monday March 10, 2025 @10:42AM (#43321210)
Vitamin B6 accumulates in the blood - it has an exceptionally long half-life on the order of several weeks. It's not an occasional overdose you have to worry about the most, but also chronic accumulation at low doses (even not much above RDA levels, single digit milligrams) and your blood levels - apparently there's a large individual variation in its metabolism (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.phanu.2020.100188)

UK/EU upper safety limits are at 10-12mg per day. US UL of 200mg is way past due for an overhaul.

I personally got sick from a B complex with 40mg pyridoxine after just 4 months. Developed dysautonomia (not a canonical example, but still a kind of neuropathy - damage to autonomic nervous system). Had random tachycardia and high blood pressure flares from various triggers every week, took a while to figure out what was really causing it. Your typical non-neurologist GP wouldn't know anything because "it's water soluble" and the textbooks say neuropathy develops at 200mg+. All symptoms mostly resolved after a month once I threw away everything with pyridoxine. Wouldn't touch it again, always on a lookout for B6 in my multis and supplements now. P5P form is thought to be safer, but also got people sick - look around on facebook B6 groups for more anecdata.

No problem with B12 as far as I know. It's not a neurotoxin unlike B6.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by manmal on Sunday March 09, 2025 @05:06AM (#43307461)
Maybe you mean B6, which is associated with small fiber neuropathy.

B12 has to jump through a number of hoops before it‘s even converted into a usable form [1].

I‘m sure you‘re meaning well, but B12 deficiency is a wide spread problem [2], and it’s questionable that excess is worse than deficiency.

1: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19832808/#&gid=article-figur...

2: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7792587/

EDIT: After posting, I saw your other comments. Maybe you can update parent.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by Jarmsy on Sunday March 09, 2025 @05:57PM (#43314322)
And one reason for taking B12 is actually to prevent neuropathy.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by manmal on Monday March 10, 2025 @05:18AM (#43318408)
Looking at the interactions in metabolism, I don’t see it.

A low B6 diet and focus on conversion to P5P and oxidation of the excess (Aldehyde Oxidase, and maybe by proxy the ALDHs) is a safer bet.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by giantg2 on Sunday March 09, 2025 @03:12PM (#43312582)
How about Epsom salt? I've never known that to have B added.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by justinator on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:52PM (#43313671)
Don't eat epsom salt.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by giantg2 on Sunday March 09, 2025 @05:16PM (#43313932)
Technically you can (or as a suppository). The great part is that you don't need to.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by zeckalpha on Sunday March 09, 2025 @10:32PM (#43316422)
Unless you are taking it as a laxative.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by genewitch on Monday March 10, 2025 @02:39AM (#43317575)
I've taken Epsom salt as directed on the drug facts label 3 times, ever, and all three times I probably avoided an urgent care/clinic visit by doing so.

If you're ever so severely clogged up that you're approaching a week without - Epsom salt will, in fact, work. It works so well that I'd recommend pre/probiotic foods for a couple days afterward. It completely cleans you out.

Otherwise, I agree. You have to know why you're clogged, too; if you got no clue, go see a Dr.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by sidewndr46 on Monday March 10, 2025 @12:06PM (#43322013)
Do you mean constipated?
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by genewitch on Monday March 10, 2025 @02:44PM (#43324257)
constipation is one reason, but also just a temporary, painful blockage for whatever reason. Epsom is like drano for your intestines. The dosage information is on all epsom salt packages designed to be used this way. Obviously don't ingest like, lavender scented bath salt (Sitz salt, whatever)
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by sidewndr46 on Monday March 10, 2025 @07:22PM (#43327326)
I'm gonna be honest. It sounds like you're either going to try and sell me a colon cleanse or a timeshare here soon
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by astura on Monday March 10, 2025 @10:08AM (#43320809)
epsom salt absolutely can be eaten as a laxative. It has a "drug facts" panels on the container with instructions.

It can also be added to your bathwater or used as a foot soak.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by qwerty456127 on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:09PM (#43313198)
> Excess B12 is really bad. Neuropathy.

How much really is dangerously excess? How do methylcobalamin vs cyanocobalamin compare in this regard?

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by mint2 on Sunday March 09, 2025 @04:56PM (#43313709)
There’s a fair number of brands selling mg alone and fe alone. Maybe it’s hard outside the US? Or maybe places like target and CVS don’t carry them - those places do have limited options.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by chiefalchemist on Sunday March 09, 2025 @09:07PM (#43315795)
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by astura on Monday March 10, 2025 @09:27AM (#43320363)
You can walk into target, Walmart, CVS, etc and have plenty of options for iron alone (which isn't widely packed with other vitamins outside a multi) and magnesium alone.
Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by aaronbaugher on Monday March 10, 2025 @12:16PM (#43322131)
Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen Mg supplements with other stuff added. I'm currently using glycinate and taurate in powder form, and there's nothing else listed.

I sprained something in my lower back badly enough about a year ago that it took four trips to the chiropractor before I could get out of bed in the morning without lots of swearing. After that, it would seem to be getting better for a few days, then regress into spasms again. After a month or so of that, I remembered that Mg is supposed to be good for tendons and ligaments. I took a good dose of Mg that night, and it was significantly better the next day, and improved from there. That's the only time in my life that I've had a clear, major difference from taking a supplement.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by Sunspark on Monday March 10, 2025 @12:37AM (#43317065)
B12 is water soluble and does not cause neuropathy. It was a error by the original poster.

As for methyl vs cyano, it depends whether you have the genetic factors that would benefit or not from methyl groups. In my case I wouldn't benefit so I don't take the methyl form and instead take the hydroxy and adeno forms.

Cyano is useless. Needs multiple steps in the liver to convert.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by Beijinger on Sunday March 09, 2025 @05:30PM (#43314075)
Whatever you desire:

https://purebulk.com/search?type=product&q=magnesium

Or grab these next time in Europe. 0.50 Euros effervescent tablets https://www.rossmann.de/de/gesundheit-altapharma-brausetable...

I never heard about the B12 problem. But effervescent tablets without artificial sweetener are unheard off.

Re:Magnesium Self-Experiments by phendrenad2 on Tuesday March 11, 2025 @11:28AM (#43333441)
> Increasingly hard to get Mg tablets without Vitamin B

Really? I found plenty at popular online stores. Or are you saying that the vitamin B is undisclosed on the labels???