I'm surprised Apple didn't co-opt charging mousepad tech, like what Logitech uses:

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/innovation/powerplay.html

Apple engineers probably still have PTSD from trying to get the AirPower mat to work, I doubt they'll touch non-magnetic wireless charging again.

I'm pretty sure it's patented in some way considering Logitech is still the only option for that .

The product is already several years old after all (release date 2017)

Just pay logitech $5/piece to license the patent and then sell them for $200, there is plenty of meat on the bone for everyone involved.

Or bypass the idea of the patent altogether by making their mouse charge wirelessly and then releasing a giant wireless charger that happens to work pretty well as a mouse pad later.

Option 1 only works if Logitech plays ball. They might consider the exclusivity very valuable and be unwilling to license it for anything reasonable.

Option 2 is a great way to land in court. It's one thing to steal IP from a tiny company or individual but Logitech can afford lawyers.

You just reminded me of how stupid the plug beneath the MM was...You never needed to charge it, till you needed it and couldn't use the mouse.

There are so many legitimate reasons to hate the magic mouse.

Ergonimics, the polling rate, the way the glass gets greasy, the scratchy hard plastic on the bottom.

Truly, inferior to the Logitech MX Master in all ways except looks. (which is subjective).

But it takes literally a few seconds to get a days worth of charge out of the mouse, Apple clearly don't want you to leave it plugged in to use as a wired mouse: why? idk, because they hate choice, or perhaps its because they know it would overcharge the battery and bulge, or perhaps even still, people would get weird expectations about "wired being better for latency" despite the mouse not using the data connections on the wire.

We'll never know. But the charging on the bottom is such a non-issue in reality that it makes me wonder if anyone actually owned that mouse, or they just think it looks funny. Personally, I'd rather they fix the other issues with the mouse, the charging was legitimately never an issue.

The only reason they don't let you charge it is because it's a recycled design of the MM1 which used disposable batteries. The Magic Keyboard and Trackpad which came out the exact same day both let you use it plugged in and charging, even wired! The Magic Mouse shell was just not designed with a cord in mind at all.

I have personally been in meeting where my boss forgot to charge her magic mouse and we had to wait two minutes for her to open the stuff we needed to discuss. It happens.

The track pad and keyboard don't need to move, which would introduce mechanical stress on the port and cable.

Those are both moving parts that must be treated as movng the same as a mouse, because they are not bolted to anything. Any mechanical designer will absolutely treat everything about the ports on those the same as for a phone.

>The only reason they don't let you charge it is because it's a recycled design of the MM1 which used disposable batteries.

But they've done incremental updates to the design since, they could have easily fixed that by now.

They haven't made any major changes to the design. It's the shape of the thing preventing it.

Take the people in the room, and multiply their fully burdened rate by two minutes. I bet that was a lot.

Yeah this is something I thought was amazingly dumb until I used one, but it’s not actually a problem. Even a little.

I use this "charge port at the bottom hurr-durr" remarks as a sure sign of people who never used the product.

ive had a magic mouse and only had to plug it in and charge it and walk away for 10 minutes... maybe... 5 times in the past three years? like it's annoying when it happens, but you also only have to charge it once every couple months, and i mostly have this annoyance because i have notifications 100% turned off and i don't see the low battery notification.

however i will say three years in, either a software update or hardware issue is now killing the battery and i have to charge it every week or two and that sucks

salty that i now have airpod pros, an iphone 13, and the magic keyboard and mouse all with their dumb lightning bolt or whatever it's called. going to have to rebuy all this to forever rid myself of non-usb-c cables but at least in 2024 it's finally happened as an option

The battery may have degraded to be fair.

Each of those times you walked away, did you ever try plugging it in, counting to ten and then continuing to use it afterwards? That's what I used to do.

I use a trackpad now though.

ill give that a shot, thanks! im pretty sure it's just a dead battery though - after i charge it for 5-10 min it shows the percentage at like 3-5% which is enough for several more hours and then i just plug it in overnight

The ergonomics were absolutely terrible. I now find using any mouse painful, to the point where I've replaced all of my computer pointing devices with trackpads. I blame the pain on a long history of Magic Mouse usage.

let's stop justifying this choice from Apple

it annoys everyone, it's a dumb design, you get a message from your Mac telling you that the mouse has no charge and suddenly you can't work anymore for a few minutes, it's idiotic, plain and simple

Wireless charging is also idiotic, to someone.

You don't like the mouse, that's fine, I also don't like the mouse.

But unless you've actually used the mouse for an extended period: I don't think you understood the point that you:

A) don't need it plugged in constantly

and

B) if you charge it for a handful of seconds it lasts the rest of the day, meaning you don't actually have to stop working.

Yeah, I've been using these on multiple Macs for a decade now and it's just not an issue.

If I get the warning the mouse is getting low on charge I just plug it in, go grab a drink or use the bathroom, and by the time I get back it's good for the rest of the day.

Then all I have to do is remember to plug it in overnight and it'll be good for months. YMMV.

It’s all about tension on the lightning connector imo - the connector isn’t designed for that level of flexibility, so it would break and it’s not like they’re going to use a different connector just for the mouse

It's not an issue anymore now that they would use usb-c.

This is the best steelmanning I've seen of the Magic Mouse charging port design; I'm surprised I never encountered it before. It actually makes a lot of sense considering how stiff the cables typically are, and it also then makes sense that the (immobile) Magic Keyboard and Magic Trackpad do have a charging port you can use while the device is in use.

It's nonsense -- plenty of people use phones and iPads while tethered to a charging cord. The port is well secured to the logic board of the device because it has to survive a lot of yanking, accidental falls, etc. It doesn't explain the Magic Mouse design.

There are so many lulu ideas in this comment that don't hold up to the simplest examination.

Plugging in for a few seconds to get a days worth of charge is a stupid thing to actually require or consider normal.

I also want to use my mouse tomorrow, and even the next day, and do so without having to plan ahead "today I will leave my mouse plugged in overnight because I can tell by clairvoyance that it is about to run out" or "I have been tracking the calender like a menstrual cycle and it's time, tonight is the night!" or "I have set up a sheduled alarm on my wonderful Apple Watch to remind me to go look at the settings somewhere to check the mouse battery level and see if it's time to charge tonight"...

And if you don't plan, then you have a few choices, charge for a minute and have to do it again without warning in 2 days, a constant stream of unplanned forced trips to the coffee maker, or just charge for 30 seconds every single day as a part of your routine, or stop and wait for a full charge on the spot for however long that is, or the worst of both worlds, get on with your day by charging for a minute now, and then don't fail to remember to plug it back in before leaving several hours of busy-ness later, which you absolutely will of course.

There is no version of any of that that is remotely convenient or sensible, and certainly not an upgrade from every other mouse in the world. There is no version of this that isn't patently ridiculous. You can work around it and tolerate it because it's not as bad as having to dig ditches for a living. If there was something about mice that the tech just didn't exist for it to work any other way, then sure it's possible to live with, because humans are adaptable. But it's not good, and it's not better than the already norm for $2 mice sice 20 years ago.

It's baffling weird to even try.

The mouse gives you like 3 days heads up that you might want to think about charging it though.

If you disable all notifications and it really runs out, waiting 10 seconds for it to charge is... fine...

I doubt you're using a wired mouse, and most wired mice are actually worse at charging than the magic mouse- the only difference is that you can use them while plugged in, so it's not as annoying that they charge so slow and use more power.

Ultimately it comes down to effective utility, people harping on about the placement of the charging cable without respect to the actual usability of the device holistically have quite literally missed the forest for the trees.

Like I said, theres plenty of reasons to dislike the mouse, but this ranks among the lowest and honestly the weird hate-boner for that decision just makes people look like they don't know what they're talking about to me.

Wired mice don't need to charge. Most modern wireless mice charge just as fast, you just don't NEED it because you can keep the cable plugged in. One minute of charge gets 3 hours for the Logitech MX 3S for example.

> But the charging on the bottom is such a non-issue in reality

As I said, you rarely needed to remember to charge it. Till you would in the midst of something.

Anyway, I never liked the MM so when I had my iMac I bought a magic trackpad (which you could charge while using, small bonus).

Then you pop it on the charger for like 10 seconds, use it for the rest of the day, then leave it charging overnight when you go home.

Sure, but it was still an inconvenience to interrupt a presentation once, and another time a prod debugging session where everybody was anxiously breathing on my neck and staring at my screen.

To me the plug placement was an inconvenience, regardless of how invisible it is to you.

On top of that, it never charged in few seconds after years of use, mine would take longer just to connect to the iMac again.

I was glad to buy magic trackpad I could leave connected 24/7 and never think about it (also I liked it much more than the MM in general).

Totally fair, why did you ignore the low battery warning for 3 days though?

Because we're human and not behaving in a perfect way and the design of our daily tools should account for that.

"Clearly, it is the user who is wrong."

The point I'm making is that people are making a point out of ignorance.

People think it will be a problem, so make ignorant commentary about it being idiotic, yet in practice it's fine, and not the worst aspect of a terrible mouse.

I guess it's some sort of longevity paradox.

It lasted so long, even after the warning, that I never got any urgency.

Doesn't it tell you that the battery is low before it doesn't work anymore? When I used the Magic Mouse I never had any issues with the battery.

In my experience, it's slow to charge. I've been using the Magic Mouse for many years, because I otherwise like it. But charging it to last the rest of the day takes long enough that I lose track of whatever I was doing. And the low battery warning always comes so late that I must stop working immediately and plug in the cable.

It's probably just Apple's usual arrogance. They could have easily designed the mouse so that you can keep using it while it's charging, but the designer chose otherwise. And because this is a minor enough issue, Apple doesn't have to fix it and admit that they were wrong.

Interesting!

That's quite contrary to my experience, granted I've only used two magic mice, one for 2 years in 2014-16, and another from 2020-2023.

It's possible that your experience is much more common though!

Right there that's my experience as well. I doubt the Magic Mouse defenders use their computer all that much or even use a Magic Mouse at all.

That thing charges annoyingly slowly and uses battery way faster than reasonable.

They are just lazy and cheap and can't admit they were wrong. That's it. Because the current Magic Mouse is basically a battery version of the previous Magic Mouse that used swappable batteries. As far as I'm concerned, they basically just used the same exact hardware and swapped the battery cradle for a LIPO + BMS and Lightning port. Which is actually a problem in itself because the sensor is really not great and could have used an upgrade at least.

I have had and used both and the first version was MUCH less annoying. Swapping is an instant activity and back to business; remember to put it to charge later when you get a message is an unnecessary mental load and unrealistic expectation from the user, the technology is supposed to work for the user not the other way around. The fast-charging bullshit everyone talks about is just displacement of the problem, the next day you will get another interruption and mental load to remember to charge.

On top of that, the battery life is actually terrible, it's crazy how little useful life you get from it considering how heavy it is and how terrible the sensor is.

Personally, I really like the ability to "free scroll" in all direction on the surface and the 2-3 finger swipes but it's really not worth the hassle.

People boast about Apple trackpads being good but as far as I'm concerned, they don't have much choice considering that's the only thing they seem to be able to work out ok. Nobody on PCs wants to use trackpads, it makes no sense compared to the performance of a mouse and gestures are unreliable compared to mouse buttons/keyboard shortcuts/macro keys.

I get what they were going for: force the user to use it as intended because the battery really lasted long enough for most people. Otherwise people would just have left it plugged always, and the cable+port would have needed different mechanical strength. But that really annoys anyone who would have left it charging if not most of the time. I think it would have been a better experience by leveraging software instead: detect that it is close to the end of the day and battery is low, and notify the user thwt they need to charge it when they stop using it, if leaving the underside port, or use notifications to annoy people into disconnecting the mouse when fully charged, if the port was moved to the obvious place. You're still annoying people, but you're less likely to end up with an unusable belly up mouse midway through your day.

Can’t remember where I saw the interview but that was a conscious choice given the long battery life and fast charging.

Very easy. You sell it on eBay and buy a Logitech MX Master.

Does the Logitech MX Master come with a driver that overcomes Apple's "unintentional" hobbling of non-Magic mice?

It does - it two different ways! The scroll wheel ratchet can be disabled (which is how I use it) or MX Options can override Smooth Scrolling. Or both.

Seems not: https://github.com/pqrs-org/Karabiner-Elements/issues/2968

What does that link have to do with anything GGP said? Apple isn't involved in that bug; it's Logitech's own software intercepting events.

It does. Although I don’t use it and use this instead: https://github.com/linearmouse/linearmouse

i use an MX master on my mac and it works great? in what way is it supposedly hobbled?

Out of the box, with no custom software installed, non-Apple mice (and even older Apple mice) will have extremely janky scrolling on modern versions of macOS.

Apparently, something internal to how the OS handles mouse scrolling was changed, and only the Magic Mouse gets a proper scrolling experience using built-in drivers. It is possible to fix this, but only with custom software (either drivers for specific mice or general tools for all mice).

I have never experienced this. I have a Logitech G203 mouse I use with my M1 Mac and of course I use the touch pad when I'm not at my desktop. I've never noticed a difference. Both seem butter smooth. I have no special software install. Am I missing something?

is it janky, or is it tied very closely to the scroll input, so it's exactly as janky as your finger moves the scroll wheel on the mouse? because that's what it seems like to me.

for it to be any smoother, there would need to be some artificial smoothing of the scroll wheel input. and i'd rather not have that.

It's not so much "raw input" as "extremely erratic".

For example, when using the wired Mighty Mouse, the same motion of my finger will sometimes scroll a couple lines and sometimes scroll the entire page or not scroll at all. The same mouse plugged into Windows does not exhibit this problem.

> For example, when using the wired Mighty Mouse, the same motion of my finger will sometimes scroll a couple lines and sometimes scroll the entire page or not scroll at all. The same mouse plugged into Windows does not exhibit this problem.

This is not normal and you're possibly facing a bug. I have a Master 3S and mine scrolls exactly the same distance with every click of the wheel.

Ok, I just tested three different mice (Keychron M1, Mighty Mouse, Razer DeathAdder V2) on two different Macs (M1 Mac Mini and M1 MacBook Pro) and all 6 combinations exhibit the same janky scrolling (mostly, it either scrolls too slow/not at all or too fast). For the Razer and Keychron mice, the experience is more "consistently bad" while only the Mighty Mouse experience is inconsistent enough to be "extremely erratic". It might just be going bad, though (it's probably a decade old at this point).

I don't have any Logitech mice anymore, but maybe they've learned how to speak to Macs or worked with Apple to make them better. I had Logitech mice in the past, ca. 2-3 years ago, and they had the same problems then. I did notice that plugging in a non-Apple mouse results in a "Setup Your Keyboard" prompt, which I just quit out of (it's not a keyboard...), but maybe that would install a driver if I followed through? Though, the Mighty Mouse is an Apple mouse, and it still sucks on macOS but not on Windows.

Apple is not nefariously gimping mice, they just don't see a world where people use non-Apple mice which have a touch surface for smooth scrolling. AFAIK this isn't an issue that can be solved with drivers. Logi's software has a persistent daemon that can convert your scrolling to smooth scrolling, but that requires leaving it open in the background. You can also use one of the dozens of open source apps that do the same thing.

I don't think it's nefarious, I think it's negligent. As I understand it, they changed something internal to how mouse motion is handled. The Magic Mouse speaks to the OS in a way that matches this change, and that was all they ever cared to ensure worked. They also don't support more than 3 buttons on a mouse well, because Apple doesn't make mice with more than 3 buttons. They did the same sort of thing with standard-DPI monitors; they didn't make them look bad on purpose, they just optimized for high-DPI monitors and didn't care about the others.

And yes, fixing this requires custom software.

In order for Apple to be negligent by not tending to a matter they'd first have to have the responsibility of tending to it to begin with.

It is not my understanding that Apple has any responsibility for ensuring equal access and capabilities for third-party accessories on their own weird, proprietary, invented-in-house computing systems.

Therefore, it is also not my understanding that they can be negligent on these matters.

They broke things that used to work. They had other reasons for doing it, but they also didn't really care to fix the problems it created. Their ecosystem is somewhat isolated from regular PCs and caters to a different clientele so I'm sure it made business sense to prioritize that way. Hence, there's at least some intent involved, just not outright malice.

Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system.

> They also don't support more than 3 buttons on a mouse well, because Apple doesn't make mice with more than 3 buttons

This is not true. Again, I have a Master 3S and I have natively, through macOS settings, bound Mouse 4 and 5 to mission control.

I can't recall ever seeing this option with the old System Preferences, so it might be new to System Settings; but either way, it's not universal. I have a 5-button Razer mouse attached to test with right now, and the "Mouse buttons" option doesn't appear in System Settings. It does, however, show up in the System Settings search results, which is nice and confusing ("here's a setting we found, that doesn't actually exist for you").

Don't be foolish. We may one day cross the Atlantic in an aeroplane or conceive of a motorised carriage capable of traveling 50 miles per hour but some dreams are simply impossible!

Putting the plug on the bottom is an intentional choice by Apple. It's because they don't want you to plug it in to charge, then never remember to unplug it. Mandatory wirelessness.

Logitech makes mice that worked plugged in and not, and they are durable too because they use a custom plastic piece around the USB connector to ensure a snug fit:

https://www.logitechg.com/en-ca/products/gaming-mice/pro-x-s...

I converted a Logitech mx2 mouse from micro-usb to usb-c. When doing so I confirmed and am 100% certain that the data lines of usb are not connected on this mouse (only ground and 5V are connected for charging). The traces to the micro-usb connector do not exist. The mouse only works by bluetooth or a Logitech 2.4Ghz dongle.

Yet, when I read forums as I was troubleshooting something, I found multiple posts where someone claims the mouse doesn't work in "wired mode", and multiple people replied saying they only ever use the mouse with a usb cable and never wirelessly so surely something is wrong, leading to lots of confusion and returned mouses. In reality, the mouse can only work when plugged in if it is also paired as a wireless device.

If you think about it, the design choice to support charging only and not data makes some sense. Having a wired and wireless mode may confuse users if they don't have a Logitech driver installed that ensures settings are persistent across both modes. Apple's design is good from this point of view, it only works wirelessly and there is no design language that suggests it has a wired mode.

Logitech gaming mouses do have wired and wireless modes, but I think they generally do not have bluetooth, so presumably the mouse and/or its driver can more easily take care of persistent settings between modes by not supporting bluetooth which is constrained to support certain features.

All that being said, I believe the main reason for the port being on the bottom of Magic Mouse was simply to avoid cost of retooling for manufacturing when they switched from AA batteries to a non-removable chargeable battery.

Whoa, neat. That makes sense from a product engineering/support angle - less work. The cable is just for charging and nothing else. I think that Windows doesn't really support the auto-pairing via USB cable that Apple does anyhow with its mice and keyboards.

Logitech mice don't use the top surface of the mouse as a multi-touch trackpad, so it doesn't matter to Logitech if the top surface of the mouse is uninterrupted by a charging port or not.

The charging port on Logitech mice is not on top surface. It's on the (slanted) front bottom surface. The top surface is fully devoted to controls.

I think both could be accommodated in a single design.

You mean, like with a notch… It is cool on iOS but not on a mouse… Funny.

Now imagine the comment sections around the Internet if Apple released a mouse that needed custom ANYTHING to charge it.

I don't believe this.

I believe (unfounded) originally it was made for asthetic reasons, as to not interrupt the sushi shape, and that not being able to use it while charging was not considered to be that much of a downside. And then since then Apple just hasn't bothered spending engineering effort on 'fixing' that design decision ever since.

Makes sense, especially because it's more impressive/magic (especially when it was introduced) when your friend/family/coworker sees you using it. If the cable was plugged in, it might just look to them like a mundane, not Magic, mouse.

I'd sooner believe it's because they want you to buy 2 of them, so you can charge one while using the other.

Zero people on the planet do this.

The mouse port thing is like a canary in the coal mine, betraying the people who just like taking shots at Apple, but generally are very ill informed. I think Apple should keep the port on the bottom purely so we can get the shortcut to discarding people's opinions when they hoist it up to concern troll.

For actual Apple Mouse users, charging is just the least concerning thing imaginable. The battery lasts an absolute eternity. I'm using one right now that I've had for at least five or so years and I charge it once in forever, it charges super quickly, and it's just not a factor in my life at all.

>"Zero people on the planet do this."

You cannot reasonably make this assertion and expect that it's true. I mean, you outed yourself right there as someone not capable of a reasonable discussion. Sort of a "canary in a coal mine" of your own.

I have never once had my Logitech mice run out of batter, not once, not ever. It charges as I use it. I'll take that all day long over the "magic mouse" with a charging port underneath so you can't even use the thing if it runs out of battery an an inopportune moment. But sure, go through the mental gymnastics of excusing a really bad design by Apple because you're an obvious fanboy.

Yes, I can make that assertion. No one is buying a second magic mouse because of how it charges, and the claim is ludicrous nonsense.

>I have never once had my Logitech mice run out of batter, not once, not ever.

Okay?

I have never, ever had my magic mouse run out of battery, or even come close. Again, you have zero idea what you're talking about. You cannot comprehend how long the battery lasts, or how ridiculously quickly it charges. The time to make a cup of coffee is days of usage.

It is never actual Magic Mouse users complaining about this. Ever. It's always the peanut gallery leaving dumb comments.

Like, why in the world did you click into a story about new Apple products to yap about how you would never buy Apple products. Bizarre. I'm not a "fan boy" for the reality that the magic mouse is actually perfectly fine, and it doesn't make me a fan boy to point out the peanut gallery that appears in every single Apple store with uninformed, often absurd takes.

Cheers! Hope you have a great day.

>Yes, I can make that assertion.

Lol, no, someone just replied to you saying that they do this.

Okay?

>I have never, ever had my magic mouse run out of battery, or even come close.

The person that replied to you that they do this, has in fact had their magic mouse run out of battery, and they used the second one while the first one charges.

You're just wrong.

This conversation is boring and you're making assertions that aren't valid.

Have the day you deserve.

>Lol, no, someone just replied to you saying that they do this.

Ignoring that I was clearly being rhetorical, they specifically note that they bought two mice because they have two Macs. The "I let one die when at home and use the other" is a consequence of that choice, not the other way around. This is super clear.

You literally, directly claimed that Apple is making a monetary choice to try to force people to buy second mice for when one dies. This is...hilarious conjecture, to put it politely.

>This conversation is boring and you're making assertions that aren't valid.

It is. The tiring noise of the Apple haters who define their personality by being Apple haters and run into every Apple conversation to make it known remains extremely boring.

I'm one that does. I've got two MMs because I have a desktop iMac (27" 2019) and a laptop for travel and I have a MM for the laptop so that I can scroll using it in my hand while in a hotel room or when doing presentations.

So when I get the "low battery warning" on the desktop MM, I put it on charge and use the other one for an hour while it recharges.

One people on the planet do this.

I'd bought the laptop first, got the MM because it's small and good for travel and using the top as a trackpad/scroller.

Then I bought an iMac and the 2nd MM came with it.

I'm pretty sure that I'm not that unusual.

> I'd sooner believe it's because they want you to buy 2 of them, so you can charge one while using the other.

We're discussing in this context. I still stand by the claim that there are probably around zero people on the planet that bought a second MM specifically to use it while the other one is charging.

I'm not doubting that there exists a group of people that happen to have acquired two MMs, however that came to be.

I switched to using the trackpad full time, because the mouse randomly bricked itself unless I let it distract me about its state of charge and whether my only cable was at home or my office desk.

You'd buy a second to avoid taking a 2 minute break?

I wouldn't buy any Apple hardware to begin with. We had to sue them in a class action because of their awful faulty hardware. We're never going back.

Then why do you care? Why waste your time making shit up about Apple when you're not going to buy any of their hardware?

What "shit" did I "make up" about Apple? I haven't made up anything. Apple would be happy if you bought 2 of their mice to work around their design problems. More profit = Apple is happy.

I don't know, still better than all the other hardware vendors with their devices that are bad by specification.

Oh, like the 8GB Macbooks they are pushing? Like that kind of "bad by specification"?

I'd buy that rather than 32 GB anything else.

Typical fanboy reply. You're beyond reason.

I'd buy any other brand if they produced something comparable in all metrics to a Macbook. That means the chassis, the display, sound quality and loudness, excellent trackpad and a very adequate keyboard, no fans or any moving parts at all, low temperature, very long battery life, size, thickness and weight.. I don't care about RAM, I was able to live with 8GB just fine. All the other metrics are much more important to me, more RAM just makes it a little nicer but otherwise doesn't make the experience.

Consider that the "fanboys" simply care about something other than you do. There was a time in my life when I had probably very similar preferences as you, but life changes.

Trust me, you don't have to explain to me all the ways you're a fanboy. You've proven it already. Don't bother replying further.

Fan boys usually care about the brand. ;-)

Given that the lightning version picks up a nine hour charge in the time it takes to take a bathroom break or go get a cup of coffee, this is more of an excuse to make fun of the design than it is a real world show stopper.

> The Apple Mouse 2 also comes with a Quick Charge feature that provides nine hours of use with a two-minute charge.

https://www.jackery.com/blogs/knowledge/how-to-charge-apple-...

The moment it runs out of power isn't when you're you're taking a break, but while you're using it. You may change what you're doing and go take a break. But you also may be in the middle of a presentation.

Sounds like it’s not for you. And that’s ok.

I’m a long time MM user and have one at every computer I use (work and multiple personal). My first one was one with the AA batteries. Never had a problem with this.

If you have a car, you have to fill it up with gas (or charge the battery) too and you can’t use it while doing that. Similar deal.

Thing is, their is literally the only mouse on the market that has this weird limitation - and there's no obvious good reason for it.

I haven’t done the research to know if that’s true or not, so I will assume it is.

But it is such a non-issue to me that I really don’t care that it exists. I also would not care if they made it possible. But as an actual user of multiple of them, it really, truly is a non-issue for me.

My issue is that mine are all lightning and I have fewer and fewer lightning devices, so I’ll have to keep around a lightning cable (regardless of whether I can charge while using it or not). But that was bound to happen.

It'll warn of a low battery for weeks in advance of fully going dead.

And I'm going to ignore it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41974645

In the same way people miss meeting reminders ahead of the meeting and Google meet/calendar combo still fails to do a reminder at 0 minutes by default. It's a bad design that doesn't account for real behaviour.

> And I'm going to ignore it.

Sure, and you might forget the mouse at home. Or the cord!

They can't solve every problem.

We're lucky then that people only complain here about the issues they can fix (like the port position) and not about all the ones they can't.

> They can't solve every problem.

But this one. This one they certainly can.

The ridiculous amount of warning time and the ridiculously quick time to get an entire days charge are good design.

And all of that doesn't change the fact that I ended up without a charge a few times and threw the MM in the bin. With the replacement, I just plug the cable in and continue using it. I don't even know how fast it charges / how long it lasts, because charging doesn't disrupt the usage.

Given that it has a lithium ion battery and you’re very much not supposed to put it in a bin, i’m not surprised you ignored a low battery warning for weeks.

If you're unable to acknowledge basic information like "battery is low" and respond accordingly within several days nor able to wait a few seconds to get enough charge to last through your super critical meeting/whatever, I guess Apples mouse just isn't for you.

That's fine. It's why we have choices.

Now if you'll excuse me I must get back to complaining ad nauseam to strangers about how much I hate a mouse I don't use. Oh wait no I don't.

Yup, that mouse isn't for me. It's also not for a number of people who end up buying it. That's how reviews work: people who had negative experience talk about it so others like that (you know who you are) will not buy that mouse. We also talk about software/hardware design here. Acknowledging that wider accessibility means designing for people behaving in different ways and it saves you from years of repeated complaints - that's also important.

This isn’t an accessibility issue, this is a “stop putting your head in the sand” issue.

But what you're doing is even worse - complaining to strangers about legitimate complaints of strangers

As evidenced by other responders, no it isn't a legitimate complaint.

Every time it's mentioned people come out of the woodwork to complain about "how can I use it while it's charging".

Meanwhile the people that actually use one know that isn't an issue - and rebut the complaints.

Right, imagine how much better my Magic Trackpad would be if I had to leave it unplugged while I was using it!

...not.

That isn't good design, it's a bandaid on bad design.

But still doesn't excuse the bad design of the port location

I'm personally not saying that excuses it, but I've once read that it was an absolutely conscious decision by Apple to put the port where it is.

A lot of people tend to simply leave the mouse plugged into a cable when using it, even once it's charged. Apple is famous for the image that they would like their products to convey. They don't want people leaving the mouse plugged in because it's convenient or they're unable to act on a month-long warning. They want to force you to use the mouse as it was designed -- wireless.

I'm not saying it's good, I don't have one myself and I plainly don't like the ergonomics of it. I like the look and I think I would be able to work around the port-location constraint, but it just doesn't feel nice to hold.

Pretty to look at, though.

Buddy, if you can’t charge your mouse once after weeks of notifications, that’s a you problem.

Yup. Me and many other people. Which Apple can either ignore, or fix their design to address a bigger market - without making the product worse for others.

There are dozens of us! Dozens!

They can't correct for low IQ unfortunately

> It's a bad design that doesn't account for real behaviour.

Not sure it's bad design as much as a design decision. I like the shape of the current MM. It works for my hands and usage. It's also slim enough to make it both a great desktop mouse and travel mouse (I used to have both!). Could Apple keep the exact same design and add a port to one of the sides? Sure, but it remain almost unusable when plugged in and not change much.

So when people complain about the port on the bottom, what they are really complaining about is the overall design of the MM. The want the MM to be thicker and have a port on the front or back, but that's no longer the MM we have. For people who want that mouse, there are plenty out there to chose from.

> ... this is more of an excuse to make fun of the design than it is a real world show stopper.

It's still a shitty design born of hubris.

Wow, that's longer than it takes me to find a working Lightning cable most days.

Considering most people put the Magic Mouse in the shelf and never use it, I don't think fixing the charge port is high on anyone's list.

If they are serious about their environmental goals, they should want all their products to be good enough to be used, not keep making something they know people aren't using.

Agreed. Unfortunately the ergonomics and the touch surface of the Magic Mouse make it unusable for most people. The charging port issue is a red herring because it doesn't really affect anything but gets lots of attention.

The people who like the magic mouse (not me) don't care, and the people who even otherwise would never use a magic mouse get to keep making fun of it. Why would they bother?

I like the magic mouse, and I care that I can't charge it while using it. I also care that I have to activate bluetooth in order to use it, even if it's plugged in. Same with the keyboard. WTFF.

Are you sure about the keyboard? Mine disconnects from BT when it's plugged in (and continues to work)

You still have to switch it "on" which means it is emitting a BT signal. It leaves users vulnerable to keylogging via BT. It's well-attested and was reported to Apple in Q4 2022.

Ideally the on/off switch would not control both the power and BT.

It still transmits keystrokes over Bluetooth even when it's connected over USB?

Yes. It is possible intercept keystrokes for an Apple keyboard that has been previously connected to a computer or laptop. It was tested as part of this vulnerability for Apple shortcuts: https://jestlandia.github.io/apple-shortcuts-vulnerability-1....

Do you have a link that actually corroborates and explains this?

I can make one, yes. We thought it was irresponsible to release it at the time. But hey, times change. Will update shortly.

I'd get a Magic Mouse if they'd move the port. It doesn't even need to be an actual port, it could be a magnetic charger, I'd be good with that too. Just something where I can plug it in while I'm thinking of it, keep working, and unplug it when I notice it's at 100% again. Having a magnet would actually be kind of cool. It could be left up near the top of the mouse pad and you could just swing your mouse up near it when it gets low for it to snap on and start charging.

There's a bumper case that converts it to use wireless charging.

This is form-over-function, classic Apple. They don't want to give even the slightest impression that they are selling a wired mouse.

I think the issue is that a lightning cable and socket aren't physically designed to take the stresses of being plugged in and being used like a mouse at the same time.

I've not measured it, but I could believe there is probably quite a bit of repeated vertical and sideways stress on a wired mouse's cable where it joins to the mouse body.

Apple charging cables aren't designed to be plugged into anything. Their cables are notoriously terrible. I had a lightning cable on my nightstand that I plugged my phone into at night a few times a week. After less than two years the connector had developed cracks. Inexcusable.

I got a Logitech MX Vertical that you can charge while using. But why would I ever do that? I charge it 3 times per year when I'm going for lunch and that's that.

I generally get a notification I need to charge my mouse when I’m in the middle of using it. It’s nice to be able to plug it in without interrupting my workflow. If instead I ignore the charge notification and keep working on what I was working on, I generally then forget to plug it in however many hours later when I’ve finished work. After enough cycles of this, it dies entirely. Sure it only happens a few times a year, but you would think Apple of all companies would get this right.

Just buy two at the low low cost of double the price

What if (and just hear me out here), the mouse was attached to a cord? This would have several benefits. No need to charge or have a battery. The mouse would stay near the computer and not get lost.

Because a lot of people find corded mice annoying?

To be fair though, I've seen multiple computer labs with new iMacs and old wired keyboards and mice (because they don't want them "going missing" or switching places).

This! It could also have a cool, youthful design, to match the iMacs. Why not round, like a hockey puck.

Or making mouse for adult sized hands

The 'magic' mouse is garbage is magically useless. I could not care less about the charging port location. The size and shape are completely wrong for adult human use.

I think it's roughly the right size for my child, aged six. I used it for about ten minutes so I could order a Logitech MX Master 3S for Mac.

Of all the annoying things Apple does, this pushes me the hardest.

It literally runs a month on an hour's charge. A design that allowed charging the Apple Watch while wearing it would be much more advantageous.

Jobs’ Apple would’ve moved the Magic Keyboard USB-C port to the bottom of the keyboard today just to watch people whine online.

There's a "bumper case" for the Magic Mouse you can get that converts it to be wirelessly charged. I want one that puts a USB-C wire I can run along the desk though. Because f*ck Apple, that's why.