They're really among the more reliable cars according to ADAC (German AAA): https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/unfall-schaden-panne/a...
People only buy Dacia because they can't afford anything else. If they could you would see the Dacia market share shrink to almost zero.
Some people cope with "Dacia is just a cheap Renault" the same they cope with "Seat (Spanish brand) is just a cheap Volkswagen", but deep down inside them they know they can't buy the car they really wanted.
In much of Eastern Europe most people would just rather buy a beat up BMW or even a relatively decent one for 10-15k.
To be fair I kind of feel the same. Getting a 2-3 old car seems like a better option than a brand new Dacia
Let's be real here, new Dacias are bought by people who care about not visiting service every other month and total cost of ownership.
My point was that in a lot of places people who can’t afford a new car other than Dacia would still rather buy an older car from a more prestigious brand due to “reasons”.
For about 15 years I kept having a hyundai of one sort of another while my friend has Audis. Our regular planned maintenance and our repairs were about 500% different. Anecdata n=1 of course.
Not everyone wants a status symbol, and not everyone wants a Go Very Fast Very Loud car. Some people genuinely want a car that's comfortable, reliable, and good for the environment.
I am very skeptical that this is true.
I thought they went and robbed a couple of banks like I do.
It remains the cheapest car avaialble, though the 10,000 price point is a thing of the past.
Really? What about the Fiat Panda?
A Renault Clio is around 18,000 Euro, three, more likely four, months time to deliver.
The whole market is simply crazy in Italy right now, in the end we settled for a (more expensive, but actually also a little bit higher level) Hyundai I20, managed to get one in 10 days time (the only model they had available, with a few largely unneeded by us optionals) for around 23,000 Euro.
All the mentioned models are so-called "mild-hybrids", so - at least in the case of the Hyundai - you have an useless small battery that prevents from having a spare tire/wheel.
I only own it because it was dirt cheap second hand and was very satisfied with the previous gen model which was an actually good car. This one is not.
A 2019 one with relatively low mileage (50,000 to 60,000 km, maybe 70,000 km) is likely to be in the 9,000-10,000 Euro range.
I wouldn't however attribute the scarcity exclusively to high demand, for all we know it could simply be under-production (for whatever technical reason or as part of a plan to sell higher priced models).
Fuck me, 13,000 Euros is what the original owner of my used Panda paid for it back in 2013, while I got it in 2017 for 6000 Euros with full kit and an extra winter tire + wheel set. I'm guessing it was cheap because it hasn't got much demand for it on the used market so users wanting to get rid of it need to lower the price.
It's definitely not a 13000 car used.
But yeah, compact cars and hatchbacks are hardly a thing in the US and no sane person in Europe would buy a pickup truck unless they actually needed one for work.
Not the same ones.
The only brand popular in both the us and the Netherlands is probably Tesla.
Toyota is popular with the Yaris being highly rated and reliable as measured by ANWB (Dutch AAA). Anecdotally I see a lot of Hyundais around where I live; the EV6/Ionic is a popular eclectic model.
However the Honda Civic for instance seems to have had reasonably good sales figures in Europe between 2000 and ~2018 so there must still be some around.
Regarding overlap of non-pickups, usually the models that are popular in the Netherlands are different from the models in the us. E.g., Toyota Camry is very rare in the Netherlands, same for Honda Accord.
I thought we were talking about brands rather than specific models? But yeah the Camry is not that popular in Europe, RAV4 and Corolla are on both continents though.
The ford model even has the same engine and transmission as their pickups (last I read).
People skip over the minivan because it's not "cool" or "too soccer mom" but JFC it's the best vehicle I've used.
ngl, I occasionally ponder one
Inputting addresses is a pain, and UI responsivity is terrible (which is part of why people don't like it; it's also not pretty, but like who cares? Does the radio need a lovely background image; flat green is fine), but put in into the show the map on the left and the next three steps on the right, and it's way better than using my phone. It's been a while since I tried it, but Android Auto in a rental was worse than just using the phone, so I've avoided it since.
Also, I'm not willing to pay for maps updates every year, and XM for satellite traffic and compressed to hell music that cuts in and out all the time because I live where trees do.
Upcoming turns in the dash is nice too.
This is a killer feature for me, and I actually don't even use Carplay anymore. In other cars I've owned it's been Carplay or nothing, I even paid extra for it in this car. But I don't use it since they went above and beyond in implementing decent software.
* Location on the map and distance to turns is represented far more accurately
* Knows which way I am pointed and can give accurate directions as soon as I start navigation, while sometimes with my phone I need to move a bit for it to know which way I’m oriented
* Works in tunnels
* Tends to stick to main roads while Apple and Google maps are far too aggressive sending me down side roads or crossing over 2 lanes of traffic.
* Don’t need to pause navigation or mess around with my phone when getting in and out of the car for breaks
* Has detailed information about the services/stores/restaurants available at each rest stop along the highway, and distances to each stop
* Detailed information about lane closures, temporary speed limit reductions due to weather, chain restrictions, etc
* Displays accurate representations of street signs and 3d renderings of off ramps
* Displays landmarks at intersections (e.g. turn right before the ramen shop on the right)
* Much more customizable interface. I can choose whether I want it to display gas stations, convenience stores, parking, etc. on the map. How many prompts before a turn. I can enable or disable various features like split-screen turn guidance, etc.
I’m not saying that Google/Apple couldn’t build these features. Just that they haven’t.
There used to be an app that greatly simplified this process. Of course, it cost $20/month. It isn't supported anymore because a 2017 model was built with only 3G and my car can no longer connect to a network in the US.
Aside from the infotainment system, I love this car and will probably drive it until the wheels fall off. It is a Geeley product, so the wheels will fall off at some point unlike the battle tanks of old.
The step-by-step guiding is top-notch and well integrated in the dash infos, the physical knobs & buttons make it easy to use while driving, it can reroute me according to live traffic infos, and it meshes nicely with the rest of the UI.
I don't really see a reason to use CarPlay/Apple Maps in this case.
I navigate with Google maps all the time. The key is downloading offline maps. I've got multiple states on my phone and they take up surprisingly little space.
I still like my nav in the vehicle because of the larger screen, but I never use it to navigate.
Why don't we have more specialized vehicles catering to small, passionate niches?
A modern Jeep or Land Rover looks just like a modern BMW or Audi SUV. The former brands were made by offering minimal rugged off-roaders, the latter by offering luxury vehicles. Now they've been blended into the same bland category.
What about beach buggies, or even the Yaris/Matrix/Fit class of light get-arounds? Gone.
What about the old nimble 6'-bed Ford Rangers, Chevy S-10s, Toyota Pickups? Gone, replaced with monstrous lifted 4'-bed wannabe minivans.
I understand why we can't have a meaningful choice between different types of government in the same area. But why must it be that way with consumer products?
The answer is, there’s no future in serving tiny niches. Due to economies of scale it makes sense to target larger segments. Kinda like a government trying to please everyone.
I, and I suspect many others, would still pay $40K for a specialty base model which would only cost $30K if it sold in mass-market quantities.
Large companies in oligopolic positions won't try to produce those sorts of products, because it's risky and they have no reason to innovate or seek untapped markets.
It feels like it would be possible if we could incentivize competition and disincentive consolidation, though. Not just in the auto market, either.
"The Homer" -- https://simpsonswiki.com/wiki/The_Homer
The newer models seem to be trying to appeal to the “big truck” people, but in a way that those same people won’t want
Something that I can use 95% of the time to get groceries and not feel like it's overkill, but toss a couch, dirt bike or beehive in the back when the situation calls for it.
They're also not really pickup trucks, underneath they have the same SUV unibody as the Bronco (yikes) and the Escape.
Unibody vs body-on-frame. Many consider that "not a real truck".
those vehicles had horrendous safety records, and modern trucks are larger so as to allow for crumple zones. plastic shells, Styrofoam, and other improved materials allow them to be much larger but without being excessively heavier.
agree with your 4' bed and minivan comments, tho
> Why don't we have more specialized vehicles catering to small, passionate niches?
because large scale manufacturing, safety, liability, and hell just the plain ole logistics of getting stuff places means it's not cost effective. One-offs like the Rally Fighter go for 75k-100k and won't have support, warranty, or the build quality of brands like Ford or Toyota.
Thank you government, for producing a regulatory agency strong enough to direct the entire automobile industry, but weak enough to be bribed into near-uselessness by corporate interests.
“I’m ok with spending on defence, social security and education” while another wants spending only on unemployment, health care and policing. That’s the paradox where a supermajority supports cutting spending and “streamlining” government but there isn’t majority support for cutting any one thing.
So it is with cars. You want a “tablet mount and good AC. Maybe power windows and nice speakers”. Some other consumer will say “I can’t get around without GPS so a good maps app on a large screen is non negotiable but get rid of everything else.” And so on. To make a car that appeals to everyone, you have to put most features in. Kinda like an American Congress Omnibus Bill.