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Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by spookthesunset on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:24AM (#34565496)
The “real” 5g isn’t for your phone, it is to replace your home internet.

For that, you want fast and low latency and that means a dense amount of cell towers. The fact that “real 5g” has a shorter range is actually a positive. It means you can make your shit super dense.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by ilyt on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:37AM (#34565547)
In dense permanent environments a bunch of cables will most likely be cheaper than having enough 5G cells to give everyone few hundred Mbits of transfer.

In scattered environment the range is too short to excuse the cost of covering it with 5G

There is no niche for it except for "my landlord didn't install proper internet so I use 5G" coz it happened to be alreadhy in range

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by rocqua on Sunday January 29, 2023 @03:06AM (#34565959)
I could imagine some place like new york, where everyone rents and you are dependent on landlords for your internet contract as well as your actual ethernet connection, 5g for home network could work.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by distances on Sunday January 29, 2023 @04:44AM (#34566493)
Why would a renter be dependent on the landlord for Internet? I rent (non-US) and have my own Internet, electricity, and gas contracts.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by kenhwang on Sunday January 29, 2023 @04:54AM (#34566559)
The utilities need owner approval to initially run the lines into the building and into every unit.

You're welcome to get your own contract, but if they don't have permission by the owner to dig into the ground and drill into walls to run the lines to you and a place to put meters and equipment, you're not getting the internet/gas.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by distances on Sunday January 29, 2023 @05:28AM (#34566795)
Sure, but the gp clearly didn't mean that as they specifically mentioned the contract and the connection separately:

> everyone rents and you are dependent on landlords for your internet contract as well as your actual ethernet connection

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by zinekeller on Sunday January 29, 2023 @09:23AM (#34568358)
Unlike in sane countries where the government has either an independent provider (like Australia's NBN) or mandates the previous monopoly to open up their lines to competition (like UK's BT's Openreach or Japan's NTT), there is no equivalent concept in the US. For calls, sure, there is a concept of an incumbent local exchange carrier, but there's no such thing as an ILEC for internet services.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by distances on Sunday January 29, 2023 @12:08PM (#34570131)
So if you have a DSL connection, it's tied to a single provider that owns the cable? That would indeed make independent contract quite pointless as changing providers would mean adding new cables.

We have mandated infrastructure sharing both for fixed and wireless networks so the competition is pretty good with virtual operators almost always being cheaper than the brand name owning the infra.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by zinekeller on Sunday January 29, 2023 @08:50PM (#34574930)
> That would indeed make independent contract quite pointless as changing providers would mean adding new cables.

... if you even have the choice. Many Americans are only served by a single provider, and this isn't the "too rural" excuse but also with many metropolitan areas. There are exceptions, such as with Utopia Fiber (https://www.utopiafiber.com/) in metropolitan parts of Utah, but this isn't the case even in California, New York or Texas.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by Enginerrrd on Sunday January 29, 2023 @09:38AM (#34568497)
That's interesting, this is largely routine on the west coast, at least for residential renters. All without owner permission.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by clnq on Sunday January 29, 2023 @05:43AM (#34566885)
Here's my observation:

It's very different in the US/CA/AU and many other regions of the world. In the former, you are quite likely to rent from a corporate landlord. In many other regions, there are very few corporate landlords.

I am a sole proprietor landlord with one property, but also a shareholder in a large company which lets properties. I can be agreeable with my direct tenants in my own property. I always let them make small modifications to the property - fiber lines, hanging things on walls, swapping out furniture to an extent. And I don't mind discussing ideas like a complete remodel of the property if my tenants are long-term. But it is tremendously difficult for me to be so agreeable to my indirect tenants through the corporate landlord in which I am a shareholder.

Fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits is enshrined in law in the US since the original precedent in Dodge v The Ford Motor Company in 1919. Similar laws exist all over the world. They create a perverse and probably sociopathic environment for managers working in corporate landlords. They must maximize profit and do it this quarter. If a tenant would increase their rent payments on the condition that they can fund their own fibre line to the property, then it is in the interest of the business' managers. If a tenant demands that the business fund a fibre line and they are unwilling to pay more rent, then showing such charity is not in the interests of the business managers. In fact, strictly speaking, such a courtesy to the tenant is against the law.

With that said, shareholders can waive this fiduciary responsibility of their managers to maximize profit. But in my limited experience, in the US, every shareholder has to independently agree to this. And in very large corporate landlords with private and corporate investors, it is practically impossible.

All in all, rent from a small landlord and it won't be a problem. In most of the world, nearly all landlords are private. Proportionally, there are markedly more corporate landlords in the US, Canada, and Australia than in most other regions of the world.

I might be wrong about some of this so I would welcome a discussion. But this is what I've observed.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by spookthesunset on Sunday January 29, 2023 @03:56AM (#34566219)
I mean you aren’t wrong. But cable has a monopoly on most peoples home internet today. If you could (theoretically) kick their ass with fast internet that completely bypasses asshole cable companies, more power to you.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by PaulHoule on Sunday January 29, 2023 @09:57AM (#34568659)
If you hate the cable company, try the phone company. The cable stops 2 miles down the road from where I live so I have ADSL from Frontier. It was terrible for a long time, I didn’t do much better than 1 Mbps until they added some analog hardware to the line that got it close to 3.

Recently they put in ‘fiber to the node’ to a nearby crossroads, I now have two 18 Mbps lines which, fortunately, give about 100% of the rated performance so I can’t complain much. I can even use Docker now, YouTube, Netflix, and online gaming are all pretty good. (The Samsung TV, outside of game mode, and some monitors, like the monitor on an Alienware ‘gaming’ laptop, add more lag than the DSL does.). I have a load balancer that sends different connections on different lines so collectively the system meets the FCC broadband definition. Still the people down the road get better speeds without the load balancer for less money.

I’d say it is not just a ‘lack of competition’ but ‘pernicious competition’ that is going on here. For instance, the cable company has less reason to serve my valley because people who want TV can get it from satellite. There are plenty of old and poor people who would rather spend $65 a month for 1 Mbps DSL than $70 for 300 Mbps cable and they will go to public meetings to try to keep the better service away. So in some sense competition from legacy satellite and legacy telco makes service worse.

(TV of course is a great case study of ‘pernicious competition’ because of the structure of the industry. Your local OTA TV station tries to keep a secret that you can tune in free with an antenna because they get cash when you subscribe to cable. There is cable, multiple satellite providers, plus a number of IPTV providers but they all provide the same bundle at the same price. There is no way I can say I want CNBC and Bloomberg and the BBC but CNN, Fox and MSNBC can all go to hell. Given that they get paid no matter if people watch they have no need to maintain quality or a brand promise. CNN tried to go direct-to-consumer but decided it didn’t want to threaten the current cash cow even though it may be a doomed business…. It’s hard to tell because there are powerful forces that will try to rebuild the bundle out of Netflix, Hulu, Disney Plus and all that.)

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by tremere on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:39AM (#34565555)
Why would I want to replace my home internet with something less secure, less reliable, lossier, and slower?
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by raverbashing on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:46AM (#34565584)
The same arguments apply to wireless headphones. (And I'm not disagreeing with you)
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by tremere on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:57AM (#34565630)
No, that's specious. The user experience matters a lot more when using headphones. The weight and tension and tethered nature of a wire degrade the user experience when it comes to an apparatus that goes on your head.

In contrast, I personally do not derive any pleasure from liberating my home internet gateway from a cable that goes to the wall.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by raverbashing on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:24AM (#34565745)
> The user experience matters a lot more when using headphones.

Sure, for the use cases where, for example, you're moving too much, wireless is good

But you get an inferior experience on most other cases, for example, switching it from one device to another, not to mention spectrum crowding etc

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by vinay427 on Sunday January 29, 2023 @03:48AM (#34566178)
> But you get an inferior experience on most other cases, for example, switching it from one device to another

I almost always have a better experience switching from one device to another. It’s zero extra taps (just play/pause of some content on the second device) on my Jabra earphones or zero to one taps for my AirPods (one if they’re already playing media on the original device).

Compare that to wired headphones, which I would need to unplug and then snake around my desk to the second device.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by raverbashing on Sunday January 29, 2023 @06:42AM (#34567190)
That is, if your device supports it, but upgrades take time and my headphones still work great (and weren't too cheap)
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by tsimionescu on Sunday January 29, 2023 @04:23AM (#34566364)
Well, the use case where your headphones are connected to one device and you are moving around accounts for, say, 80% of the time spent using headphones. So even if other use cases get more annoying, it really doesn't matter unless they become unbearable (and disconnecting BT on my phone and then connecting from my laptop to the headphones, which is about the worse case scenario, is not unbearable).
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by rocqua on Sunday January 29, 2023 @03:10AM (#34565977)
I venture to say that in my social circle, over 50% of people own wireless noise canceling headphones.

Yet many of the same people demand wired internet. Hence I don't believe wireless internet and headphones are comparable.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by pony_sheared on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:19AM (#34565722)
In London, in an apartment block, I tried BT broadband (60Mbps max), then Virgin cable (100Mbps for £55 / month, prices go up for more speed), then EE 4G (£30 / month for 200Mbps +/-50Mbps, unlimited d/l upload is also over 60Mbps, about 6x on Virgin).

I don't game, so don't care about ping.

So, where I am, using 4G for my home internet is faster and cheaper, and I can gift data to my phone. I have not had any issues with reliability.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by dazc on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:52AM (#34565887)
In Southampton, there are lots of places around the city where 4G coverage is simply not reliable. Even with a strong signal you can get speeds that vary from literally nothing to 60MBPs. I once lived within half a mile of the centre and could never connect to anything between 5pm and 11pm which rendered the service entirely useless.

We've had 4G for ten years or more now, I'm not ready to put my faith in 5G and don't expect to be any time soon.

I almost signed up for a new office a mile from the centre where the best cable speed on offer was 20Mbps and the thought of relying upon mobile internet was enough to make me think twice.

I'm currently in semi-rural location, no mobile service at all indoors but, 200 metres from the fibre cable cabinet, enjoying cheap and reliable 60Mbps without a hitch.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by jon-wood on Sunday January 29, 2023 @05:22AM (#34566752)
Mobile signal remains spotty in Southampton, I’m unable to use 5G at home because I’m in the dead zone between the coverage of three masts. That’s less of an issue in recent years though because the terribly named “toob” have rolled out fibre across most of the city, and will sell me a line doing a gigabit up and down for £25 a month, which is less than I was previously paying for DSL over a bit of wet string.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by martinald on Sunday January 29, 2023 @08:34AM (#34567934)
Probably council rejecting new masts if it is like most places in the UK.

3UK have thousands (maybe 10k?) new masts in planning to really improve 5G coverage (and they have the spectrum to actually deliver 2gig/sec to phones in the real world). Annoyingly the (vast in many cases) majority will are being rejected on suprious grounds by the council.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by toyg on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:21PM (#34570992)
The reality where I live (North of England) is the opposite: cash-strapped (and often greasy-palmed) councils will approve masts willy-nilly, to the annoyance of locals who find out only after they're erected. Very occasionally this generates any actual organised blowback.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by jon-wood on Thursday February 02, 2023 @07:38AM (#34625713)
I'm curious, what are the actual objections to mobile masts being erected? They don't make a noise, they're not (despite the conspiracy theorists) in any way dangerous. All I can think of is that people don't like the way they look, but I don't really see them as being any uglier than a lamppost or street sign.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by dazc on Sunday February 05, 2023 @11:35AM (#34666218)
Mainly aesthetics, the new 5G masts are much larger and need to be sited in densely populated areas where there is already a significant amount of unwelcome street furniture.

Conspiracy theories regarding harmful radiation can also be a factor.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by Symbiote on Sunday January 29, 2023 @06:46AM (#34567205)
In Copenhagen I tried 500Mb/s cable for about £30 / month, and didn't need to go any further. They since upgraded it to 1000Mb/s.

Several other companies could provide similar speeds at similar (some lower) costs through a fibre connection, which was installed throughout the building.

5G home broadband seems like a fix for when the market for wired options is broken.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by martinald on Sunday January 29, 2023 @08:32AM (#34567915)
I'd be really surprised if you don't have at least one altnet in an apartment building, Hyperoptic is pretty common in London.

I've got access to 4 seperate FTTH providers now in my apartment (all using different infrastructure, not including resellers): VM, Openreach (BT) FTTP, Hyperoptic and now Community fibre.

The limiting factor on speed now is WiFi, which cannot manage 1gig even closer to the router.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by indy on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:27AM (#34565763)
It may be worse for the end user but it's great for corporations. Samsung could sell you a smart TV with built-in 5G so that it can always serve you ads even if you never connect it to your wi-fi.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by selcuka on Sunday January 29, 2023 @03:28AM (#34566057)
Can't they already do this now? Is 5G necessary?
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by kunagi7 on Sunday January 29, 2023 @10:38AM (#34569037)
Well, they can just stuff a 5G NB-IoT modem inside of newer TVs, using eSIMs received by OTA (either WiFi or a previous valid eSIM).

As long as the manufacturer foots the eSIM bill (and it's profitable) they can serve ads.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by mlindner on Sunday January 29, 2023 @03:42AM (#34566148)
Or better yet, serve you ads when you're not using the TV where it randomly comes on from time to time and displays an image ad and then turns off again.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by indy on Sunday January 29, 2023 @05:27AM (#34566789)
Yes, and not just TVs but any piece of electronic equipment with 5G built-in will be capable of serving ads and sending usage information back without needing access to the user's WiFi or router
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by geysersam on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:51AM (#34565876)
You shouldn't!

But mature 5g isn't supposed to be any of those.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by dehrmann on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:53AM (#34565893)
> less secure

Not really. The link layer is encrypted, and you're almost certainly running SSL on top of it.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by izacus on Sunday January 29, 2023 @03:40AM (#34566138)
Because it's cheaper and more convenient for you ISP and you'll just need to eat the crappier service when noone will want to deploy fiber to your house anymore.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by temp0826 on Sunday January 29, 2023 @04:26AM (#34566388)
Speak for yourself...my parents live in a rural area and just switched from a local wireless isp (via some directional/long range 802.11 setup) to a tmobile 5g router and it's been an absolute godsend in terms of speed and reliability. Growing up there was depressing and I was flabbergasted to see them join this century with something I'd consider "high-speed" (seen it hit 200mbps personally).
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by anderspitman on Sunday January 29, 2023 @10:28AM (#34568937)
Several of my teenage years involved a lot of conniving to get better internet to our rural house. Best I managed before moving out was very high latency and unreliable microwave at 1Mbps. Now there's great LTE and I think even 5G there.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by youngtaff on Sunday January 29, 2023 @05:11AM (#34566679)
I’ve been using 5G while waiting for fibre to be laid and use it for day-to-day internet connectivity

It’s 20-30x faster than my VDSL2 line and only £8/month more expensive

And apart from the day of the Queens funeral it’s been really reliable

On the day of the funeral throughput was like 28kbps, whereas 4G from the same tower was 100Mbps so I presume the teleco had an internal network issue with their 5G backhaul / network (probably sold all the capacity to broadcasters)

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by headsoup on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:29AM (#34565518)
It's almost like we could just go back to cables and have a plenty good experience again...
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by guhidalg on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:33AM (#34565538)
But why? If you had the choice of EQUIVALENT (bandwidth, latency, jitter, reliability, etc…) network connectivity, why pick a wire over wireless?
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by gmokki on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:40AM (#34565558)
Wireless consumes more energy. So it is more enironmentally friendly to go with wires, especially fiber. Personally I like to have both, wired main connection and wireless as backup.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by mattmaroon on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:52AM (#34565612)
Is it though? What’s the environmental footprint of manufacturing, installing, and maintaining all of those wires?
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by mynameisvlad on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:59AM (#34565640)
While not as much, installing and maintaining the 5G endpoints also requires all that, and they generally have to be wired to achieve low latency, meshing only does so much and the speed of light is going to win out for backhauls.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by adgjlsfhk1 on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:01AM (#34565647)
A lot lower than manufacturing chips to do the complex signal processing needed for fast and reliable wireless.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by JohnFen on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:56AM (#34565628)
If it costs more, I wouldn't pick wireless. Losing the wire for my home internet gains me nothing.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by jmopp on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:14AM (#34565706)
I don't trust that the wireless solution would be equivalent, though this may be because I've been burned too many times living in concrete houses that block cellphone signal rather effectively.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by pshc on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:52AM (#34565884)
It isn’t equivalent. Optical fiber beats 5G on those criteria.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by rocqua on Sunday January 29, 2023 @03:16AM (#34565998)
Wireless is inherently easier to accidentally get disrupted. When wired internet fails, it is rarely the wire. More importantly, if it is the wire that is easy to check and fix.

With wireless internet, disruption can be caused by many things. That makes diagnosing a problem so much harder. Incidentally it also tends to be less reliable.

Besides that, the massive complexity of the technology stack makes wireless harder to manage, configure, figure out compatibility for, and more prone to software bugs.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by HPsquared on Sunday January 29, 2023 @04:32AM (#34566422)
Wireless does has an advantage in terms of redundancy. If the nearest tower fails, you can probably also use another one nearby. Not so with wired connections, where the whole signal chain needs to be intact. Even if the whole network fails, you can probably switch SIM and use a different network.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by headsoup on Sunday January 29, 2023 @07:00AM (#34567298)
I suppose you don't live rurally...

But they both have trade-offs. Wireless allows many connections at once rather easily at the cost of interference and (potentially) speed and reliability, cable is more expensive up front if infrastructure isn't already there.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by renonce on Sunday January 29, 2023 @07:05AM (#34567333)
You can have such redundancy for wire too. People simply figured out that it’s so reliable there is no need for extra redundancy.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by thefz on Sunday January 29, 2023 @04:51AM (#34566541)
Wireless should be the exception, not the norm. When you really need a device to move.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by headsoup on Sunday January 29, 2023 @06:58AM (#34567284)
Well I could make that assumption... and make the whole conversation pointless.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by nerdbert on Sunday January 29, 2023 @05:45PM (#34573571)
I would hate to have all the devices in my house connect directly to a wireless signal from the ISP, for example. I manage the DNS and firewall to control what goes on. Giving up that control means more ads and more tracking and nothing good for me. Having fiber come into the house has no drawbacks that I can see, so why trade that away for something worse?
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by raverbashing on Sunday January 29, 2023 @01:48AM (#34565592)
So whoever doesn't live in the city center gets a poor signal?

Sounds like short sighted view of the decade

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by throwanem on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:12AM (#34565697)
Don't be silly. If anyone wanted to live outside cities, people would build cities there.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by rocqua on Sunday January 29, 2023 @03:24AM (#34566041)
Before 5g city centers often couldn't cram in enough cell towers to give everyone enough bandwidth for their home connection.

5G has an option for higher frequency towers with signals that drop off much quicker, allowing you to pack towers closer together. Hence giving city centers much more bandwidth.

Down in the suburbs you can still get away with fewer towers with larger range and still give everyone bandwidth.

Out in the countryside is where the problem you propose starts occurring. When the people are so spread out that a single cell is going to be woefully underutilized, and hence not built close enough to your home. But that cross-over is beyond the suburbs, not around the city center.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by pmontra on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:29AM (#34565777)
In getting my home internet from a 4G tower some 3 km away. It's anything between 10 to 40 Mb/s upload and download. I think that we'll never have dense 5G towers here because the area is not dense. At most one tower where most of the houses are.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by dehrmann on Sunday January 29, 2023 @02:54AM (#34565902)
Supposedly lots of India will never build out data networks that go to homes because it makes no sense when you have LTE and 5G.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by Gigachad on Sunday January 29, 2023 @03:39AM (#34566130)
Wireless is probably good enough. Wired is still much faster, more reliable, and has lower latency, but if the cost is unaffordable, none of that is essential.

I expect the future is that rural moves to mostly wireless and inner city areas continue to be connected to fiber.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by HPsquared on Sunday January 29, 2023 @04:35AM (#34566444)
The trend I've seen is the opposite: it's much easier to dig trenches and install cables in suburban/rural locations than it is in a densely packed city, so they often have better wired internet.
Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by Gigachad on Sunday January 29, 2023 @04:55AM (#34566562)
It's still more expensive because you are digging 100km of easy trenches to connect a thousand people vs 1km of complex trench to connect tens of thousands.

In Australia we have mostly failed to provide good wired internet to rural areas so they are moving to starlink while the cities are largely connected to fiber now.

Re:Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE? by PaulHoule on Sunday January 29, 2023 @09:35AM (#34568466)
There are two kinds of 5G.

One of them is the mm wave which is very high performance over line of site, makes the most of diffraction so it often does well near-line-of-site, then quits working. It is particularly unsuited for handsets because your hand and other body parts can block the antenna. This is a great answer for FWA in favorable geography.

The other 5G is similar to 4G but a bit better performing and my understanding it is actually a bit cheaper for the carrier. 4G infrastructure manages a higher level of spectral efficiency than people thought possible before because of the very close coordination between towers, they actually pipe the baseband signal (around 100 MHz bandwidth) by fiber optic to a central location and process the signals collectively. My understanding is that 5G has a system for coordinating the towers that is still efficient, but not so crazy expensive. So it is ironic that carriers market 5G as something that costs consumers more money because the real driver for it, from the telco perspective, is lower costs.