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Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by schappim on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:00PM (#32757589)
It isn't just used for the emergency feature, it is also used for the "Find My" network. I suspect more traffic will come from "Find My" than from the emergency feature.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by SergeAx on Saturday September 10, 2022 @04:19AM (#32788846)
Does it mean that Apple tags will also be tracked everywhere on Earth? I feel an urge to have an always on detector for those devices.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by c7DJTLrn on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:16PM (#32757790)
Source? That seems like a big omission from their keynote earlier today.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by melvinram on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:18PM (#32757811)
It wasn't omitted. It was covered in the keynote. It's also on their website:

  Let friends know how remote you go.
  
  If you’re on an adventure without cell service, 
  you can now use Find My to share your location 
  via satellite so friends and family know where you are.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by tonyhb on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:13PM (#32758493)
Apple's always-on pingback no matter where you go in the globe, even if you disable cell networks. I do believe they care about privacy, though if you look at features like this it's easy to see that they can be worse than Google if they wanted.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by wyattjoh on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:57PM (#32759026)
Except this (currently) requires users to point their phone at a satellite so it can connect and transmit, with clear line of site of the sky. It seems it will be more likely something you'd do when you get to your "campsite" and want friends/family to know where you are located.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by s0rce on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @10:44PM (#32760482)
edit: I didn't realize this will apparently be required due to the antenna design in the iPhone, seems very cumbersome, you can't easily see where the satellites are...

You don't really need to point it, at least with my inreach if its near the top of my pack and I'm not in a canyon or something I can get a message out.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by Jtsummers on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @11:33PM (#32760854)
> you can't easily see where the satellites are...

Which is why when you're using it they guide you on how to orient the phone (per their released info so far, we'll have actual user reports in a few weeks).

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by Scoundreller on Thursday September 08, 2022 @12:26AM (#32761176)
I look forward to whatever video game they create where you get the rescue points for holding your phone in the right orientation.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by saghm on Thursday September 08, 2022 @02:21AM (#32761886)
And if you don't, it presumably says "you're holding it wrong!"
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by zikduruqe on Friday September 09, 2022 @11:00AM (#32780060)
Your in reach uses 1.6 GHz at 31.5 dBm for one of the bands and 2.4 GHz at 5 dBm for the other.

That's 1.412538 watts versus 0.003162 watts... hence why you can just leave it in your pack.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by stubish on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @09:57PM (#32760077)
That limitation will have to be fixed before this accounts for 85% of a satellite network's capacity.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by dymk on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:56PM (#32759022)
Airplane mode.

Of course if you don’t trust that, you shouldn’t be buying an Apple product anyways. They could ship an always on microphone streaming to their servers if they wanted to. But we trust that they won’t.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by adolph on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @09:19PM (#32759776)
Faraday bag or turned off in a freezer “stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by usefulcat on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @11:48PM (#32760945)

  s/freezer/bottom of a locked filing cabinet/
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by adolph on Thursday September 08, 2022 @10:00AM (#32765616)
Edward J. Snowden insisted that a group of lawyers advising him in the Chinese territory “hide their cellphones in the refrigerator of the home where he was staying, to block any eavesdropping,”

https://archive.nytimes.com/thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/0...

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by alasdair_ on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @08:48PM (#32759551)
Find my works even if the iphone is turned off - does airplane mode stop this?
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by artificial on Thursday September 08, 2022 @12:32AM (#32761202)
Since we can't remove batteries I know a mylar Cheetos snack bag does the trick.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by mburee on Friday September 09, 2022 @03:00AM (#32776155)
https://www.mattblaze.org/blog/faraday/

Make of that what you want

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by dwaite on Thursday September 08, 2022 @11:52AM (#32767382)
The toggles to turn off this feature (as well as Find my in general) do stop this.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by ErneX on Thursday September 08, 2022 @03:24AM (#32762392)
That’s opt-in though.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by zarriak on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @08:39PM (#32759468)
I agree with your sentiment but this seemed in the keynote to be something you had to do on purpose and not like the normal always on find my.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by SergeAx on Saturday September 10, 2022 @04:32AM (#32788900)
Correction: if they shareholders wanted.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by toomuchtodo on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @08:21PM (#32759285)
AirTags are even more compelling when your sensor fabric is satellite comms enabled.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by lostlogin on Thursday September 08, 2022 @01:47AM (#32761656)
Not if you can’t share them with family.

What the hell is that all about?

If this has changed, scratch all of the above.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by nikdoof on Thursday September 08, 2022 @05:25AM (#32763214)
I had the (dumb) idea of putting an AirTag in the family car, with the idea of being able to get a rough idea of where it is parked without depending on the terrible manf provided app. Every time my partner would drive the car it would ping away for a good 2-3 minutes due to the safety notifications. We're all part of the same family account, I don't really understand why it isn't an option to just ignore it.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by mschuster91 on Thursday September 08, 2022 @07:05AM (#32763884)
> We're all part of the same family account, I don't really understand why it isn't an option to just ignore it.

Because there are way too many spouses who go to as absurd lengths as setting private investigators on their partners. Stalking is just as much a concern inside families as it is for everyday persons - I might be tempted to say that the impact is worse given the potential for domestic violence. Or just imagine fundamentalist parents tracking their children to Planned Parenthood, a known LGBT-friendly place or whatever.

Ideally, there would be laws and regulations on trackers - and not just hardware-ones like the AirTags, but also software-based ones - that mandate features to prevent abuse, but sadly politicians haven't caught up on tech developments yet.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by mort96 on Thursday September 08, 2022 @08:26AM (#32764503)
That still doesn't explain why it's not an option _for nikdoof's partner_ to choose to disable notifications from that particular AirPod. It makes total sense why nikdoof shouldn't be able to disable it for their partner.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by mschuster91 on Thursday September 08, 2022 @08:37AM (#32764621)
> That still doesn't explain why it's not an option _for nikdoof's partner_ to choose to disable notifications from that particular AirPod.

Coercion, simple as that.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by mort96 on Thursday September 08, 2022 @09:35AM (#32765294)
Wait, I might not be understanding the threat model here. The situation I imagined was: persons A and B are spouses, A wants to track B, so since A and B are in a family unit, A would want to disable the "You're being followed" alert for B without B knowing.

If A had to coerce B to turn of the alert, then the alert would have already served its purpose to tell B that they're being tracked by A. Moreover, there should still be some interface which B can use to figure out which AirTag is following them, so person B would 1) know that A is tracking them in general, and 2) have the ability to check whether A is tracking them in the moment.

Please explain what additional information or utility the continued notification is giving person B in this moment, or if my understanding of the hypothetical is wrong.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by mschuster91 on Thursday September 08, 2022 @10:33AM (#32766130)
The threat model is that B has no way of knowing if she is actually being tracked (or if she could potentially be), or if A has just made empty threats. By coercion - or by manipulating the setting on his own on B's phone without A knowing -, A could prevent her from finding out that she could be tracked by someone.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by lostlogin on Thursday September 08, 2022 @12:34PM (#32767994)
And here we are - I haven’t bought any.

I want to track the dog, the shared cars’ keys. I want to track a shared bike. There are a load of items I’d put them on, but they aren’t just mine.

I don’t believe it’s a security thing. It’s the Apple way to get software to a point then just stop development, there are plenty of examples.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by mschuster91 on Friday September 09, 2022 @03:19AM (#32776297)
Apple however can't differentiate between someone wishing to track their dog and someone wishing to track their spouse - at that point basic ethics come to play. It's bad enough that AirTags even exist, the absurd amount of stalking cases proves it, but now Apple is all but forced to rein the bullshit in.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by BiteCode_dev on Thursday September 08, 2022 @04:39AM (#32762938)
Ah, tracking the entire population even in the highest mountain and the deepest desert.

And all that to protect your love ones, of course.

People apparently forgot all about PRISM already. That didn't take long.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by xbmcuser on Thursday September 08, 2022 @05:05AM (#32763106)
Its amazing to me how easily people are willing to give Apple their data compared to Google, Facebook or Microsoft. Specially looking at how Apple was to willing to put its servers in countries that want control of the data. I think people seem to forget the privacy fight was not about privacy from advertisers but from government over reach. People are looking at Google for building skynet but Apple seems to be successfully building it and people are enthusiastically adopting it.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by simonh on Thursday September 08, 2022 @11:24AM (#32766959)
Apple has a really strong track record of resisting Government intrusion, within the bounds of the law, not selling customer data to third parties, and holding app developers to account for the privacy of their apps. The others have business models based entirely on selling user data.

The contentious element is the "within the bounds of the law" bit. In the US and Europe that means a lot, because Apple can use the courts to block government overreach and they have done so. In China they can't do that, so they don't just as nobody else operating within China can.

Google does deserve credit for refusing to operate their search services within China, while Apple and many other companies decided they were willing to do business there on Chinese government terms.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by BiteCode_dev on Thursday September 08, 2022 @05:18AM (#32763177)
Apple is much better at marketting than Google, Facebook or Microsoft.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by matthewmacleod on Thursday September 08, 2022 @05:55AM (#32763420)
I'm genuinely getting pretty annoyed by this increasingly prevalent style of know-it-all neo-ludditism that manifests as middlebrow, pithy dismissals of entire technologies with obvious benefits.

If you have a viewpoint on the relative risks of these technologies, the I genuinely wish you'd use your time to talk productively about what you think the risks are to help others make an informed choice – instead of sarcastically assuming that anybody who doesn't have the exact same set of priorities as you is a fucking idiot. It's making the quality of discussion on this site totally unbearable.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by BiteCode_dev on Thursday September 08, 2022 @10:10AM (#32765747)
Well, asbestos has obvious benefits. It's an amazing, cheap way to insulate things, and it's very resistant to fire.

We knew abestos was dangerous even before the WW2, and kept using it because it was so convenient.

That's the thing about know-it-all neo-ludditism pithy dismissals. They started 30 years ago witha much more soft tone. But since not only people ignored the warnings, but eventually even came to insult the people performing said warning (even after the warning proved to be true), the same people turned kinda sarcarstics.

Poor you to have to read a rational argument in a comment using history and logic to underline our societies shit where they eat and ignore the asymetry of risk.

Sacarstic people are mean and don't understand how to have quality discussions. They should always stay perfectly calm and neutral while they feel like half of the population is setting us up for troubles.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by simonh on Thursday September 08, 2022 @11:35AM (#32767123)
>Poor you to have to read a rational argument in a comment using history and logic

Your comment above didn't actually contain any such thing. It contained a vestigial semblance of them too trivialised by vitriol to land a persuasive point.

>Sacarstic people are mean and don't understand how to have quality discussions.

Not always for sure, but yes that's often the case.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by BiteCode_dev on Thursday September 08, 2022 @11:50AM (#32767357)
Oh but this comment is part of a thread. Because comments are in a context. Like this one, from 6 hours ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32763171

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by brookst on Saturday September 10, 2022 @02:43PM (#32793388)
You should read up on how AirTags work; Apple does not ever know the location of any person or their stuff. Good read: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/sec6cbc80fd0/...
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by leokennis on Thursday September 08, 2022 @05:07AM (#32763119)
There are articles/white papers available, showing Find My info is only visible to people you authorize it to.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by BiteCode_dev on Thursday September 08, 2022 @05:17AM (#32763171)
Sure.

Because 3 letters agencies never, ever had backdoors in popular systems. It's not like the US had an illegal massive secret cabale dedicated to mass spying on its own population after all.

Luckily, Apple plateforms are notoriously open so it will be easy to check. It's great that we don't have to take their word for it after they lied about not being part of any PRISM-like program.

Anyways, all that doesn't matter much. Why would it be a problem when the economy, climate, international politics and the democracy are so stable these days? I can't see any reason why history would repeat and powerful entities would abuse any power they get.

Somebody who thinks like that would be a crazy tin hat conspirationist, and not at all a concerned citizen.

No, only the part of the population ready to spend hundred of dollars on an upgrade to get copy/paste must be capable of rational thinking. Anybody else is biased.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by xani_ on Thursday September 08, 2022 @06:26AM (#32763606)
which changes nothing, they're free to do whatever they want in actual code.

There is also no source code or even audit by 3rd parties (that are not US government related)

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by SergeAx on Saturday September 10, 2022 @04:36AM (#32788917)
> And all that to protect your love ones, of course.

And for your own privacy!

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by tinus_hn on Thursday September 08, 2022 @04:50AM (#32763022)
> You can now

There is an optional feature where you can choose to share your current location using a satellite even if you don’t have coverage.

It would be stupid to use this capacity to track users because the data is not worth more than what you can get for free if you just cache the location and wait for the user to move into cellular coverage again. There is no conspiracy here.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by cyanydeez on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @09:22PM (#32759801)
How soon till this is just. A stalker feature
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by ShakataGaNai on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @09:36PM (#32759906)
Well, it's fairly easy to turn off. If you are in a situation in which you think you might be stalked through technology, you should certainly check your Find My along with any applicable location sharing Applications (both Android and Apple, such as google maps location sharing).

So I doubt this will be used much as a stalker feature. Unless of course they hide a phone on your person/vehicle in such a way that it is both totally unnoticeable to you AND maintains a very clear view of the sky. Apple said that sending messages could take a minute or more with even light foliage, so hiding it in/under a car will be a total no-go.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by Jtsummers on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @09:38PM (#32759936)
You have control over who can see your location in Find My. If a stalker has access, that means they're already someone you trust or you've never looked at the list of people you're sharing your location with.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by ezfe on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:18PM (#32757812)
They did mention it during the keynote, but it's not automatic. It appears you have to open Find My and click to share your location over satellite each time. Might be wrong though, they didn't go into detail.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by valine on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:43PM (#32758125)
I was under the impression that the iPhone needs to be very precisely pointed at a satellite for this to work. I doubt it can be done passively when the phone is in your pocket.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by chrisshroba on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:50PM (#32758210)
I have a Garmin InReach and it can send location periodically. While it is more effective to have it out and pointed at a satellite, it still works in my pocket, but may just take a little longer to send the messages. For a feature like Find My, many people won’t mind if the location being sent is a little stale, but with emergency SOS, you really want your message to go out ASAP, so it makes sense that you need to point at a satellite for SOS, but not for Find My tracking.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by GekkePrutser on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:57PM (#32758281)
The InReach Mini has a helix antenna specifically built for maximum gain towards the sats though. The iPhone doesn't. Apple has even built in a pointing feature for it.

You can't even realistically point the InReach Mini at a satellite because it doesn't tell you where they are. At any time there's only a couple of iridium sats in view and they move quite fast across the sky.

But the device has an antenna with the right amount of upwards gain and the right polarisation to deal with that. For an iphone it's a lot harder to incorporate that.

Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by xenospn on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:49PM (#32758193)
If the phone detects you're away from the network, they could prompt you to update your location every once in a while.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by xani_ on Thursday September 08, 2022 @06:27AM (#32763618)
If you use it and the antenna side faces the sky it will eventually hit some satellite
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by someguydave on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:31PM (#32758730)
globalstar uses LEO satellites which are in constant motion, there is no way that you must point at them to make these features work
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by gbear605 on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @08:32PM (#32759388)
The keynote had a lengthy explanation of how you have to point the phone at a satellite for the feature to work. The phone directs you how to point it.
Re:Globalstar SEC filing, Apple to use 85% of its satellite ... by someguydave on Friday September 09, 2022 @02:12PM (#32782876)
yeah I did not watch that, I am wrong. Seems pretty lame for a supposedly emergency service.