That means: on concerts, on hacking camps, in art exhibitions, especially exhibition openings, on film sets etc. These places reflect my interests of course, so I don't go there because of women, I go there because the stuff there interests me. So for you it could be a sports club, a library, an animal rights organization or any number of other, similar places where people of similar interest gather.
The point is: if you want to get to know people (regardless of their gender) exposing yourself to situations where you actually get the chance to meet new people is a good way to increase your chances. Just like your chances of rolling a 6 increase with every roll of the dice.
The important thing is to do it because you like, not because you expect to find women there.
> The important thing is to do it because you like,
As I said, I do, but none of the things I like involve enough people of the opposite sex. It doesn't help that I'm old so it might be true there are some 20 somethings at a hacking event but there are no 50 somethings.
I went to a travel blogging meetup at one last year (hosted by library staff members), some events on making podcasts, regular board game nights at another, and there's a whole maker lab set up in the basement of my nearest library, with 3D printers, multiple sound recording rooms, multiple video recording studios, a vinyl cutter, a laser cutter and computers with Adobe suite installed on them that you can use pretty much whenever.
Just looking at next month at adult events at my nearest library: yoga, drawing with pencils and charcoal class, conversational ESL, STEM workshop, a DIY craft event, a cooking class, photography club, meditation class, mixing live albums with Logic Pro class, dungeons and dragons event, coffee and conversation event, business topics workshop, folk art craft diy, trivia night, open mic night, aztec dancing event, line dancing, toastmasters (public speaking), film club, financial planning talk, 24 hour comic book creation event, state paranormal history talk, knitting, writers group, and several book club events. That's not even the kid or teen events. That's a lot, and a wide variety of things.
Re: concerts and libraries, you meet people outside of them (for concerts, in line for them, or in the pit waiting for the show to start), not at them per se.
I don't know about "hacking camps" (hackathons? code boot camps?) — never been to one — but a close cousin of these, [industry niche] startup events, tend to attract just as many business cofounders as technical cofounders; and the business cofounders tend to be an even gender split. (They also attract seed-stage VC scouts and marketing people, and these jobs actually tend to lean female.)
> As I said, I do, but none of the things I like involve enough people of the opposite sex.
So... take up some new hobbies?
And when I say that, I don't mean to work "bottom up" starting from what you might like; but rather, "top down", starting from what hobbies your ideal partner might have, and then filtering those for which ones you feel at least amicably neutral about. E.g. if you feel like you'd enjoy being with someone who's also 50yo and "creative", and you're not against e.g. painting, or pottery, or creative writing; then attend a continuing-education course on one of those. Because that's where you'll find other 50yos trying to learn those things.
I think people are going to be weirded out by someone hitting on them at a business event.
However, I should note that as a technical cofounder attending these events, I've been approached and flirted with heavily by single female entrepreneurs who have ideas they haven't started building yet, who seem to be looking for a convenient all-in-one package of "a boyfriend who's also an entrepreneur, who can 'yes, and' my ambitions, and who has enough skill+experience to actually build the tech side of the things we imagine together." I'm neither single, nor a free agent business-wise, but some people can be both very pushy and presumptive.
The first step is always getting to know the other person. Hitting on the other person with romantic interest from the start is a sure way not to get to know them in a low pressure environment. If you get to know the other first, they also get to know you. Typically you'd be searching for someone you are willing to spend your time with, and who is willing to spend time with you. And this is only a feasible endeavour if you know them and they know you.
That means: Your goal is not to find someone to "hit on", your goal is to get to know people. You can still explore if the other is interested in a little bit more, once it is established that you find them interesting and they find you interesting.
Hacking camps are sure not a typical source of women, but what I said was not "search places where women are", but rather "put yourself out there, but in places that match your interest". If it turns out that place has no women at all, sure that won't help for that purpose. Keep in mind that I cited examples that worked for a young (35-ish) person like me.
It is not easy to find someone you like, regardless of gender, but putting yourself out there is one of the best ways to do it. Even if your thing is IT, there might be places that need it. E.g. a friend did IT for kids in need and he certainly met one ore another women his age there.
My experience is there is a good number of 50 somethings in tango.
And like I said elsewhere, it's much more of a café scene than a bar scene, making it easier to socialize.
Boring redpill ideology stuff.
Of course, the phrasing is dumb as hell.
There's also a definite error. Note that an ugly guy who brings himself up to normal with surgery doesn't go through the neurotypical question. That arrow should go back to the top.
> looksmaxx, moneymaxx, surgerymaxx
> daygame, nightgame, warm approach
The language itself reveals deeper structuring principles in terms of truths/untruths, from which the knowledge presented in the chart arises.
The problem isn't that it's ideology; the NYT is equally ideological (ironically I had a far more visceral negative response to the angle of the OP article than to the above chart). The problem isn't even necessarily that it's TRP/manosphere ideology, but that it's treated unreflexively.
The question that immediately comes to mind is "why are the only categories 'sub5', 'normie', and 'chad'? What grounding principles must I assume in order to decide which of these categories I'm a part of?" Same goes for the proposed actions: what worldview must I assume so that these action-words "make sense", are coherent?
I can't speak for everyone, but when I personally dig into these questions, the answers I arrive at don't align with the other ways I elect to live in the world. I'm not saying the chart is "wrong", but rather that it's not relevant, for me at least.
I'm so far removed from this stuff generally I didn't really understand anything in that sentence (lol)
they often complain they are made to feel uncomfortable by that
If you're worried you will be perceived as a creep then you need to work on your delivery/how you approach strangers.
Members of the opposite sex are just people. They want to be treated normally. My most successful male friend(in terms of dating) just treats females like they're normal people. He pretty much never has trouble and he is a 6 at most with a shitbox car.
I used to think women only care about money etc; and That is true..for a certain subset of women. So many more don't care at all, and just want a nice loyal person who won't shit on them. And yes, you need to moderately TRY to look attractive. Go to the gym, get a proper haircut, stop wearing those shitty jeans and ugly shoes. YOU also need to put in effort, it's not just on the other gender.
Just a suggestion. You think he is a "6" but you are probably wrong because you are unable to view him from the perspective of a woman's gaze. See my other post in my profile's comments about the flow chart stuff.
I appreciate your input though!
You work on getting to know people as friends, some of whom you may consider dating.
In which country COVID is still a thing that prevents indoors meetings?
Regardless, outdoor there is a world of events happening; it isn't just "indoors". Just check on meetup.com.
> I can't talk while I dance as I need to concentrate on getting the moves right (it's a well known style of dance, not just club dancing)
At social dances, dancers often socialize on the sides of the dance floor, taking a break rather than dancing the whole evening; socializing or not is very much a choice.
I think you're confusing unable to go to indoor meetings versus unwilling.
Consider paying for them. From a male perspective, it’s strictly a numbers game.
Tinder Platinum did wonders for me. Saves your time, and gets you pushed higher in the stack of the cards, which leads to more matches.
I.E. don’t take shots with perfectly styled hair, a leather jacket, and a motorcycle, if your day to day and date attire will be a t-shirt and jeans and you’re going to arrive on an e-scooter.
unintentional blindside question in a softball interview
I was paying £69 a year for Tinder Gold and then £99 a year for Tinder Platinum.
Having laws is one thing, enforcing them is another.
Just look at the huge number of websites that are not GDPR compliant.
TBH, being GDPR compliant isn't that hard, just don't track your users lol. A lot of the web was GDPR compliant by default 20 years ago.
What's the outcome when everyone pays for it?
It’s very dependent on the age group (and of course, people themselves).
I’d be willing to bet that in 18-25 (maybe even higher) age group most people are looking to have fun, not get married.
Back to the popularity contest, and virtually impossible to use without paying.
Or they’ll just add a higher tier.
It’s a very cruel numbers game.
I recognize that feeling! It took me a long time before it disappeared. Practice helps a lot. And if you forget a move, it's okay to get back to the basic (assuming you are doing a partner dance and not a line dance - I suck at line dances).
I don't know which style of dance you mean. You may consider different dance styles.
I did a bit of ballroom in grad school, then years later learned salsa, then added tango, then some swing and other dance styles (modern, Scottish country, Swedish folk dance).
Each one has a different social scene. Where I lived, tango tends towards older people, and is usually combined with a social/café scene (a milonga). "Older" means 40s and up.
Salsa is more at clubs. As a bouncer once pointed out, he loved the energy of the dancers, but they don't drink much so it doesn't make much revenue for the bar.
It took a couple of years of salsa classes, and dancing salsa elsewhere, before I realized that I didn't like the salsa style my teacher taught, and preferred another studio. So that's also something to consider.
Swing tended to be a younger, more energetic crowd (late teens/20s), with dance events at more specialized locales that had more open space (where I was, that was generally a yoga/dance studio or the OddFellows Hall, which hosted a lot of smaller dance events).
My limited ballroom experience was that the higher levels tend towards ballroom studios. I got the feeling that engineers lean towards ballroom because there are more specific steps and progressions to learn.
The folk dancing scene is pretty laid back. The basics aren't hard to learn, and people will help you with them. It's the most family-friendly of the dances I did, with quieter music, and more often held outside (if the weather is good) because it doesn't need a special dance floor.
For what it's worth, at my peak I was dancing about 25 hours per week. I met my wife at a dance event, held at bar.
Other things I did, to meet people, were local community college classes (as a new resident to the state, I like the local state history course the best; the teacher also hosted a monthly local history event, which I went to - nearly everyone was 55 and older so I was the youngest by far) and Sierra Club hikes.
i started climbing and bouldering recently and while I haven't met anyone romantically (I have no interest in pushing this, I want to do it for the hobby first, and for meeting people second), the group I go with usually has more women than men and in the gyms it seems to be about a 50/50 split so I can easily see how you could meet someone there in the way you imagine.
though I must emphasize not to do it to meet women as the primary purpose, I feel like that's kind of creepy vs. an event that is explicitly for that purpose (like single bars or whatever).
just seconding this. the gym is already a pretty tough environment and people coming for this purpose make it outright hostile. it's not a bar.
do climb though, it's a great way to get strong and do something fun!
* It's a natural two-person activity with a bidirectional trust exercise.
* Heights provide a little amygdala stimulation.
* It's hard and physical and you feel like you deserve a beer afterwards.
* If your date is not already a climber, you get to play the role of the teacher/master.
* It weeds out the extremely uptight / neurotic.
that said, it does make for a good first date and i definitely got a bunch of random people into climbing that way... =)
Drinking alcohol at the alcohol place is not an interesting thing.
The majority of swing dance socials will have very low levels of intoxication (because everyone is there to dance!), and it is a social atmosphere where it is expected and encouraged to introduce yourself to strangers and ask them to dance. If you are a man (or dance the lead role), don't worry about not being able to do so much fancy stuff while you're dancing. Often, experienced followers are perfectly happy to try out individual stylistic variations while the leader holds a nice steady basic.
I'd recommend going with the intention of trying to expand your social circle, and seeing where you end up!
> dance
I figured I'd add a bit of guidance in addition to "go with the intention of expanding your social circle" since I'm writing another message, for anyone that is interested:
* Start going to swing dance classes (I recommend Lindy Hop for beginners)
* In classes, say hello to all the people you dance with as you rotate, ask how they are doing, and start gradually making small talk focused around whatever moves you're learning that day (though not to the point of distracting from the class!)
* Chances are some people coming to the class will be in couples. If there is one partner of the couple who you small talk a bit more freely with, at the beginning or the end of the classes, go and say hi and make some small talk with those couples, get to know their partners too
* As a single person going to classes it's generally a lot more relaxed talking to couples than other single people to start with
* Slowly start including others (couples or single people) in these pre/post class conversations
* At this point everyone is probably still terrified at the idea of going to a social dance, thinking they aren't "good enough" yet
* Make a group chat with the people you've been talking to before and after classes with the goal of coordinating a social dance that everyone can go to together so they don't feel so terrified of going alone
* Add more and more people from the classes to the group chat, and more and more of the nice people you meet at the dances to the group chat (others in the group chat will be doing this too!)
* Before you know it, you'll have a new social circle of 20+ friends, hooray!
Alternatively, aim to make friends, and meet THEIR friends. This is always the absolutely best way
I think the best thing you can do is focus on yourself, particularly by cultivating hobbies that you enjoy—bonus points if they’re things you can enjoy alone and with others, because they’re easy inroads and great first dates (worst case you get to spend a bit of time doing something you like!).
The second thing I’d encourage is to get any potential dealbreakers out of the way early (e.g. religion, political views, desires for parenthood, career aspirations). It’s a slow path, but it’s helped me avoid the major pitfalls I’ve seen in my friend’s’ and colleagues’ relationships.
But first you have to meet the person to go on a date with.
Compare to most of the relationships I've had, those were people I knew 6+ months before we got interested in each other. Classmates, co-workers, group friends.
not just for dating, for all kinds of 'network reboot'. doesn't have to be traditional grad school either, any kind of high-investment cohort-based bonding experience should do it
agree with you that hollowing out of local institutions is rough, esp for over-30s post-pan. The web has not done a good job of delivering IRL social networks; tinder is IMO fairly good at this, with the caveat that it's impossible to turn the connections into a true community
The tradeoffs though... like student loan debt!
Few things. First, why is covid still a thing? You can just as easily catch it on a date or at work, just go to the indoor meetups. I'm in a liberal big city in the US and covid isn't a thing anymore. It's been three years. I don't want to die alone, do you? I had long COVID, it sucks, but it's unfortunately not an option.
Second, some meetups have different people going to it in each event. Those are the date targets. But, focus on making friends there, this happens if you go regularly, weekly, to the same ones.
So you do know where to look, you just don't want to look there.
YMMV but that's the case in my area in Europe. Maybe the US has a different culture.
It's on you to figure out how to do that without making it weird.
And, my experience doesn't seem to indicate that meeting interesting people in bars only happens in certain countries.
That said, I didn't necessarily go to the bars or nightclubs purely with the objective of dating. I went there to have fun, dance and meet people (men and women).
There are also quality bars.
The Hollywood scene where girls hang around alone by the bar waiting for guys to hit on them doesn't exist here.
I don't know that it exists anywhere anymore. It can be dangerous for a woman to out drinking alone.
But ladies do go out in groups. As a guy you just have to be nice and chat up the group and don't get hyper focused on any one person. None of them are probably going to drop everything and go home with you that night. But you can often get a phone number (or two) and go on a real date from that.
If you want to go to a bar and meet other people, go to one with a pool table. Hitting on women is much smoother when you meet their girlfriend's boyfriend first, and better tolerated whether she's interested or not.
Sure, it can happen that you meet a compatible partner in a bar/club, but as a dating strategy is has a very poor ROI. You're better off with hobbies or dating apps.
He might not even drink!
Order water.
>I suspect that most volunteer coordinators will be happy with volunteers who are perhaps not passionate but do turn out when they say they will, arrive prepared, and do the work. Agreed.
Volunteering with a political campaign where the candidate's promises are strongly appealing to young people is probably the sweet spot in terms of meeting young people.
I usually don't talk while dancing with someone too, but social partnered dancing is how I met my wife. You don't have to be super social, but hopefully you naturally form some friends out dancing you can talk with while you're sitting out a dance. Just the act of being friendly and social with others puts you in the right situation; women usually prefer someone like that to someone sitting by themselves silently.
Are you doing competitive dancing?
If you’re dancing for fun yet you’re more concerned about dancing “properly” than you are about just socializing, people are probably wondering why you’re taking it so seriously.
I took years of dance lessons, and at my peak was dancing about 25 hours per week. My social life was my dance friends, made after I started taking it so seriously. My friends also went to dance lessons, and worked to get the moves right. My now-wife, for example, studied for a year to be a ballroom dance instructor then taught courses and private lessons.
In traveling dances like tango and waltz, the lead must learn not only the basic forward motion, but also how to turn corners, and how to avoid people. At the beginning, this took me a lot of effort. My first few tango milongas were mostly "step, step, stop, think; repeat" unable to hold a conversation and dance at the same time.
Things got better once I had enough practice in moving about floor, but at the beginning, it was tough.
And that was after several years of salsa dancing. A real beginning tango dancer would likely have it worse.
There are also people who believe "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing well."
And some people have a sort of impostor syndrome - they know they are beginners, they see the better dancers, and they think people won't like them or dance with them until they get better. This is wrong, but the solution isn't to suggest stop taking it so seriously, but to get those dancers to know it really is okay to be a beginner dancer - everyone was a beginner once. "Taking it seriously" is respected because that's what those better dancers did to become better.
There's also the opposite - beginners who want to learn more complicated moves right away, before they even get the basics down, and end up making the follow annoyed for being lead into uncomfortable positions, being stepped on, etc. To anyone reading - don't be like that.
That's why dating is a multi billion dollar industry.
If it was creepy I wouldn't date models.
You will benefit more if you try to be a considerate human being, and not treat women like prizes, or prey to be captured. This way, you actually have a chance to healthy relationships.
I met my last girlfriend this way. I know friends who found partners randomly chatting on the train, in ubers (pool when that was a thing), at bus stops etc.
Just dont be an asshole or a creep/creepy looking, and youd be surprised how receptive people can be
On a dating app women are happy to swipe left and see who's next but when there is a man right in front of them the calculus is way different.
I'd like to counter-argue with a quote from this random Reddit thread in /r/AskWomen [1] titled "What is one place you hate to be hit on?":
> Grocery store. I'm just like, dude, leave me alone, I'm here to get my food and get out as quickly as possible. I'm not interested in having to pretend not to be annoyed by you interrupting my day, fuck off.
And I'd like to point out that "Earth" is also an answer there.
I feel for the OP because he's stuck between a rock and a hard place: hitting on women is often annoying for the woman being hit on, but at the same time not hitting on women means that he can only date people who he meets for reasons other than dating. It's like a Zen riddle: "What is that which you can only have once you stop desiring it?".
This is the landscape that gave rise to the hell we call "dating apps", and I really wish we had something better.
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/comments/pzojno/what_is_on...
It's just so easy to understand when you look at it logically. Talking to people (skillfully, which requires practice) will eventually lead to befriending some percent of those you talk to. Befriending people will lead to more opportunities to befriend others from a place of more trust. It's a simple networking process.
Eventually, some percent of the people you're meeting and befriending will be love interests. There will be mutual attraction, especially when you don't come across as desperate. Eventually some small percent of these mutual attractions will also be compatible partners under the right circumstances.
It's just a numbers game!
The problem is people design their conversion funnels all wrong. At the top of the funnel is conversations, then acquaintances, friends, mutual interests, compatible interests, partners.
At every stage there is a network/feedback effect leading to more input at the top of the funnel.
Go talk to people!
"Do you know a good brand of pasta sauce? I don't like garlic, and it seems everything has garlic in it."
"Are the waist sizes honest here? I'm a 36 but some places that's like 40 inches."
And leave it at that. Maybe somebody will continue the conversation, but most won't. It's a numbers game.
Is that ballroom dance with lead/follower? If that's the case, I cannot recommend it enough. It's hard as hell in the first couple of years, but then you'll grasp it. See this graph for the learning curve of ballroom dancing, and don't give up [1].
[1]: https://www.salsafs.com/site/assets/articles/learning_curve....
I love ballroom, been doing it more or less since high school (10+ years and some breaks), but I wouldn't really use this curve for any other reason than to motivate new men to attend classes.
In the beginning, followers may have a slightly easier time since it's probably a bit easier for a follower to learn from a more advanced leader than the other way around, but this plateaus pretty soon (low single digit months).
Also, leaders tend to pick and followers accept / reject, so in that respect, "attractive followers" will have a bit of an easier time (more offers) than if you're a shy, not very attractive leader.
But that's mostly just for newcomers. Eventually, few dances in, people get familiar with your level and you with theirs in a given group. And I've yet to see a place where one could get no partners, even as a "beginner with only a handful of introductory classes" (unless through some pretty obvious breaches of ethics / personal hygiene).
Eventually (maybe a few months in), both leaders and followers have to do some introspection and practice things like technique, posture and musicality. And there's simply no way other than mindful practice.
I'm not saying I want to meet someone at work. But, work is the 2nd most common place to meet someone. Friends are #1 but as I mentioned my friends don't come through here.
Bars don't seem my thing. I am going to a dance event regularly but so far nothing there and even then, I can't talk while I dance as I need to concentrate on getting the moves right (it's a well known style of dance, not just club dancing)
Trying to go to meetups but COVID is still a thing so outdoors only. And it can be burn out on those two because rarely is there anyone I might be interested in. (single, age appropriate, and seem compatible). I know it's a numbers game, I just am running out of ideas on how to increase the numbers.
The apps don't work for me. I get at most 3~4 dates a year out of them. It's better than zero but not by much.