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Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by maratc on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:17AM (#32422919)
The Kindle is inexpensive, has great support, has a huge library (open to non-US people with non-US credit cards), and you could just email a MOBI to it (which is great if the Kindle owner is your parent). It's only disadvantage was that it did not support ePub and so one had to go through Calibre.

Now that Kindle is supporting ePUB and no Calibre-tion is needed, I don't even see what the Kobo value prop is.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Lio on Thursday August 11, 2022 @06:01AM (#32423579)
That's not Kindle's only disadvantage. Kobo had distinct features I wanted that no Kindle offered at the time I last purchased.

Like a screen big enough to comfortably read PDFs. 10.3" on Kobo Elipsa vs 7" on Kindle. IMHO that makes the Kindle only really useful for fiction.

There's also Pocket support for reading offline web articles.

Overdrive support so I can borrow books from my local library for free.

Free Dropbox syncing without having to email everything when I buy a book from someone that isn't Amazon e.g PragProg, Packt, etc. (Dropbox does support email though if you do want that).

In theory I could also use the pen and take written notes on my Elipsa too but it's not a feature I was looking for.

The other stuff you mentioned, like Kindle having a large purchasable library, is also true for Kobo right from the homescreen. They're also priced similarly if you match specs and available for same day delivery from Argos in the UK.

Finally, I know I could hack my last Kindle but Kobo make that really easy out of the box. Installing Koreader, Plato or anything else is simple even if it's not required for everyday use.

So for me it's the other way around. Amazon offers nothing I want that Kobo doesn't have.

Different people have different usecases but I don't think I'll go back to a Kindle now I've switched. Kobos are very easy to live with.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by theshrike79 on Friday August 12, 2022 @05:34AM (#32436259)
E-readers are good for linear fiction. Books that you read from start to finish and don't need to jump around much.

For PDFs and non-fiction manuals and guides I highly prefer a proper powerful tablet with a color screen. E-readers just don't have the power, refresh rate or UX to handle browsing around in 300 page books with pictures.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Beltalowda on Saturday August 13, 2022 @08:33AM (#32449288)
I found reading technical books on any computer platform to be somewhat awkward. I much prefer physical books for this: even with the best software it's just so much easier to flip back a bunch of pages.

Funny enough, I found this holds true especially for things like programming books where I very frequently go back to see if I understood something correctly, and having a book separate from my computer in front of me is also useful.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by BSOhealth on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:23AM (#32424621)
Libraries are very important, and Kindle supports borrowing from them (for free): https://help.overdrive.com/en-us/0431.html
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by anuragsoni on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:35AM (#32424724)
So does the kobo (at least in the US). Kobo devices have the overdrive app installed on them and you can search for and borrow library books from within the device.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by BeetleB on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:36AM (#32426334)
Funny you mention this, because Kindle support for libraries was amongst the last. For a number of years after buying my ereader libraries did not support Kindle. They've supported epub since at least 2010, possibly even before.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by multicelled on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:36AM (#32424735)
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by aendruk on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:58AM (#32427692)
This was the primary reason I chose a Kobo. You can use the pubic library entirely on the reader.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by faaarmer on Thursday August 11, 2022 @09:11PM (#32433744)
Only in the US. In Australia, you need a Kobo for that.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by nu11ptr on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:59AM (#32424954)
To borrow from the library on Kindle, just use the Libby app. Very painless and easy. You can send to your kindle as the last click of checkout.

https://www.overdrive.com/apps/libby

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by II2II on Thursday August 11, 2022 @02:38PM (#32429964)
To borrow from the library on Kobo, just use your Kobo. There is no need to pull out a second device.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by frosted-flakes on Thursday August 11, 2022 @09:10AM (#32425060)
It's not available in all countries.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by arbitrage on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:53AM (#32424915)
> Like a screen big enough to comfortably read PDFs. IMHO that makes the Kindle only really useful for fiction.

There is plenty of non-fiction that doesn't come in PDF form. It is quite readable on a Kindle.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Lio on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:21AM (#32426063)
That's true but technical books always felt a bit tight even in landscape orientation on my Kindle.

Things like code or diagrams don't always reformat well and scrolling is a pain in the arse.

Life is just much easier with a bigger screen. Where I'd really come unstuck is when someone gives me a whitepaper or customer documentation that is only in PDF format. No reformating even if you want to.

Amazon used to sell the bigger Kindle DX but they stopped making it. So if you're buying a new device anyway there doesn't seem to be much downside to switching to Kobo, that I've found anyway.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by criddell on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:05AM (#32426863)
Bigger screens are essential for scientific papers that have lots of charts and other figures. For eink-type screens there's not a lot type choose from. Fujitsu has a couple of A4 size models that look pretty good. If you can deal with traditional screens, the biggest iPad Pro is great.

Remarkable and some other companies have A5 or 10.3" screens but these are too small IMHO. You will still end up zooming and panning.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by ryantgtg on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:04AM (#32426854)
For a while Kobos had warm backlights, while Kindle still only had their harsh cold light. But I think Kindle has caught up with that feature.

That’s what lead me to switch to Kobo a few years ago, and it’s been great. Though some small press releases sometimes skip the kobo store still.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by jdougan on Thursday August 11, 2022 @09:22AM (#32425191)
How does the screen on the Elipsa compare to the old Kindle DX screens? I'm babying my pair of old DXs, and it would be nice to have a replacements.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Lio on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:00AM (#32425694)
I can't say for sure how they compare but the DX was what I was originally looking for. Unfortunately I've never actually seen a Kindle DX in the wild and they're rare as rocking horse poo on ebay here in the UK.

The Kobo Elipsa is the first ebook reader I've used where I can read PDFs without zooming, which is a game changer for me.

In general I think DX or Elipsa sized screens are more useful for text books even in epub format.

It's much faster than my old Kindle but I was never really that bother about the old Kindle's page turn speed. The Elipsa also has much crisper text but again I thought my anchient Kindle was mostly good enough.

The Kobo search features are much better. My old Kindle's search was too greedy which made it pretty much useless as I couldn't narrow results. e.g. I couldn't search for "act" without getting results for "actor" as well.

The only irk I've had with Kobo is that the default PDF reader doesn't let you set a zoom level to reduce margins as you read. You can zoom in but you need to zoom out again to turn the page.

That's only a very minor issues though, I can still read things fine with the default margins. Installing KOreader or Plato was as simple as dragging a file onto a USB drive and give you every ereader feature you could want including margin stripping PDFs.

I considered a Remarkable 2 but I'm not really one for hand written notes and I wanted a frontlight, which the Elipsa has but the RM2 doesn't.

I actually wish I could have bought the Elipsa without the bundled case or pen as I don't use either. The handwriting to text or drawing to flowchart conversion is fun to play with but it's not something I need, I'm strictly using it as a reading device.

I'd guess that the Elipsa would be a good replacement for a Kindle DX but that's caviated by how you personally want to use it. There's something very pleasing about keeping an old ebook reader going though so it might be fun just to keep using your DXs until they absolutely die and then see what's on the market at the time.

Hope that helps.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by bansheehash on Friday August 12, 2022 @03:33AM (#32435573)
The child labourers of DRC will thank you for supporting their livelihood when you buy that Kobo you don't really need.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/oct/12/p...

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by levesque on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:29AM (#32424674)
Kobo appears to be an inferior device on most accounts. Both of my Kobo readers have had glitches, required reboots, and at times had a suspiciously low battery life. The first even just stopped working all of a sudden. But all of it was worth it knowing I wouldn't have to support Amazon's walled garden. Now it's mostly down to "do you support Amazon?", and I'm still not sure if I want a Kindle. I'll keep my Kobo H2O until it dies of old age, then we'll see.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by nanomonkey on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:38AM (#32426376)
> Now it's mostly down to "do you support Amazon?"

I don't know if this is still the case, but the Kindle used to be a loss leader. So in theory, by purchasing one, using Calibre only and never purchasing ebooks from Amazon, you are causing Amazon to bleed revenue.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by levesque on Thursday August 11, 2022 @01:32PM (#32429148)
Great point!
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by ergo14 on Thursday August 11, 2022 @12:14PM (#32427919)
I have Kobo H2O and it works great till this day. I charge it very rarly - maybe every 2-3 months. It reads everything I like. And it was one of the first with IP68 certification.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by tiahura on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:40AM (#32424780)
Agreed. I love my kobo’s form factor, but the glitchiness is frustrating. For me, the inaccuracy of the Aura HD’s touch recognition is what causes the most headaches.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by levesque on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:46AM (#32424840)
Oh right, forgot about touch recognition, that's also a bit off. Needs more strength / pressure than it should. I'm guessing they didn't tune it properly when they made the devices water resistant?
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by giancarlostoro on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:17AM (#32425988)
> required reboots

I feel like a FreeBSD guru in the 90s, "YOU REBOOT???" but seriously, I don't recall ever having to reboot my Kindle except the time I tried to open a 500MB PDF and I should of known better.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by goosedragons on Thursday August 11, 2022 @06:07AM (#32423614)
Kobo's are like a stone's throw in price from Kindles. Depending on features/market they can be cheaper and they don't even sell lockscreen ads. The only cheaper Kindle is the awful 800x600 screen one which should have been put to bed years ago. They also have a huge library open to non-US people with non-US credit cards. Kobos are considerably better at formatting text with far more options and are even easier to tweak. I literally could not find a font size I liked when I had a Kindle because the smallest was too small and every other one too big.

And Kindle STILL does not support ePub. All Amazon has done is started letting people email epubs to their Kindle and their backend will convert it to an Amazon format. This has conversion warts, means you lose cover support too. You still can't copy an ePub over USB.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by adam12 on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:23AM (#32424620)
Can I ever get a Kobo for $45?
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by goosedragons on Thursday August 11, 2022 @09:01AM (#32424973)
I'm pretty sure at some point the Kobo mini was about that at some point...

It's not like $45 is the regular price of the Kindle either. Camelcamelcamel has the new base model having it's lowest at $70 and I've seen the Nia for $80 and they are pretty comparable.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by dkarl on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:06AM (#32426875)
> I don't even see what the Kobo value prop is

Not having to hack the device you supposedly own to avoid having ads as your screensaver? My Kindle is at the bottom of my closet for that reason. I haven't bought another physical e-reader, but if I do, it won't be a Kindle. I didn't want to go through the process of finding up-to-date instructions, waiting for a hack that would install on my hardware and software version, crossing my fingers to do the install, at the end of which I wouldn't even know if it was a victory for me or a victory for them that I was still using their product. So I stopped using it and won't buy another one.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by vageli on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:15AM (#32427006)
The ad-supported model allows people to buy the kindle for less than the non-ad-supported model. AFAIK you can pay a one-time fee and remove them, or buy the non-ad-supported version in the first place.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by dkarl on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:39AM (#32427403)
There wasn't a choice when I bought mine.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by coder543 on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:44AM (#32427465)
> There wasn't a choice when I bought mine.

Ad-supported or not has always been a choice for as long as Amazon has offered ad-supported kindles. I remember making this choice about 10 years ago, and I made this choice about a month ago when I bought my most recent Kindle.

If you bought it used or from a reseller, I don't know what to tell you, but Amazon gave you a choice if you bought it from them.

As a source, here is an Engadget article from the time when this option was introduced: https://www.engadget.com/2011-04-11-amazon-releases-ad-suppo...

You can clearly see that Amazon offered the "with Special Offers" version alongside the versions without "Special Offers". The ad-supported version was discounted by $25 back then. Nowadays, it appears to be a $20 difference on the Paperwhite.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by phpisthebest on Thursday August 11, 2022 @07:54AM (#32424318)
>>I don't even see what the Kobo value prop is.

It is not amazon encumbered. That is a huge value to many

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by SoftTalker on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:51AM (#32424890)
That's why I bought mine. I don't want to give Amazon any of my money.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by maratc on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:06AM (#32425788)
I had three readers from Sony (until they exited the business) and one from B&N (until they exited the business), because I didn't want to deal with conversion. Of these still in the business, Amazon looks the least-like to exit soon, and now there's no need to deal with conversion.

As most of the books I read are out of copyright anyway, I'm not "encumbering" myself with Amazon in any way, except for buying hardware they made.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by wlonkly on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:52PM (#32433637)
> no need to deal with conversion

There is still a need to deal with conversion, but it happens on Amazon servers. Which is convenient, but gives no control over the results (and someone mentioned in another comment that it doesn't even preserve the cover image).

The Kindle itself does not natively support ePub. MOBI is being retired to favour AZW3, and Microsoft is moving to ePub.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by coder543 on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:42AM (#32427439)
> one from B&N (until they exited the business)

Did they exit the business? It looks like the Nook Glowlight 4 was released less than a year ago.

I don't know a single person in real life with an e-reader other than a Kindle, including myself, so I had to google to see how B&N Nook was doing when you said that, but it still seems to be a thing.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by maratc on Thursday August 11, 2022 @12:14PM (#32427923)
Just checked — they indeed still have one model (not counting special editions in pink) after a hiatus of four years. Without an SD card, sideloading is an issue though.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by hollandheese on Thursday August 11, 2022 @12:32PM (#32428206)
Except Kindle isn't supporting ePub. You can't sideload an ePub on to a Kindle. All you can do is e-mail an ePub to Amazon, and they'll convert it to AZW3 and load that file on to your Kindle.

Further the conversion that they do is notoriously bad and often results in unreadable books. So you often have to tweak the ePub files before sending them to get a decent result. Calibre is essential to that process.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by dont__panic on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:53PM (#32431595)
Notably they don't display book covers for converted epubs in your library -- clearly hamstringing the conversion so folks aren't too tempted to rely on books from external sources.

The AZW3 proprietary format is not something I want to struggle with in my day-to-day -- if anything goes wrong, it's a rabbit hole of reverse engineering. I like copying media to my ereader using cables, because sometimes I don't have a solid internet connection or it just feels wasteful to send a bunch of big files over email (if I'm on a tethered or metered internet connection, just sending a couple dozen books is easily in the hundreds of megabytes up and down).

Kobos are a much friendlier ecosystem, and are what I recommend to all family members who don't want their device shackled by Amazon. Easy to hook up to local libraries to borrow books on the fly, easy to copy DRM-free ebooks from online stores.

I have a Boox tablet myself because I love notetaking in nonfiction books and hand writing my notes in work meetings and journals.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by whyoh on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:53AM (#32423526)
>Now that Kindle is supporting ePUB...

Kindles do not support ePUB. But you can send ePUBs through the Amazon online conversion service now, which wasn't possible in the past.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Hitton on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:47AM (#32424850)
And if you are lucky, Amazon will even be able to convert them.

About week ago I wanted to test it, I tried it with bunch of epubs from various sources and only about half converted successfully.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by GekkePrutser on Thursday August 11, 2022 @09:12AM (#32425091)
Yeah I often have issues with "fancy quotes" not getting converted correctly if I email an ePub to Kindle. They get converted to HTML entities :(

With Calibre it works but it's an annoying extra step. I hope Amazon fix this issue before they officially start supporting ePub.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Turing_Machine on Thursday August 11, 2022 @02:46PM (#32430055)
Try using epubcheck on those to see where the finger really should be pointed.

There are a lot of really crap "epubs" out there.

https://www.w3.org/publishing/epubcheck/

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by maratc on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:10AM (#32425856)
There's no magic ASIC on the Kobo that transfers the stream of bytes into the stream of pixels; ePub support is in the Kobo software. Amazon now has this support in their software. The fact that the conversion software runs on Kindle servers (and not on the Kindle device) is insignificant to me - what's important is I can have an ePub and can read it on the Kindle.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by ta8903 on Thursday August 11, 2022 @01:28PM (#32429083)
Not sure what to make of this post. You know that you can drop files straight to your Kindle through a USB cable, right? As long as an epub loaded this way doesn't work I can't see how you can say Kindles support epub.

Yes, you can use Amazon's weird conversion service to convert them, but you could do that with Calibre (or just pandoc) anyways, and probably with less friction too.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by ryukafalz on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:24AM (#32426109)
So long as the server doing that continues to exist.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by maratc on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:32AM (#32426267)
You have a point. OTOH, my three Sony readers and my Nook supported ePub without any servers, but all are dead now. And again, without that server it's just back to Calibre.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by spacehunt on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:37AM (#32423047)
Kobo has built-in Overdrive, Dropbox and Pocket support on the device itself, which Kindle lacks.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Namari on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:55AM (#32423174)
Pocket is the reason I chose the Kobo, how can the others miss that feature, it's not like people just read books nowadays.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by k1m on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:03AM (#32423223)
While not exactly like Pocket, there are services that can send web articles to your Kindle. I work on one called Push to Kindle: https://www.fivefilters.org/push-to-kindle/
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Namari on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:17AM (#32423299)
that's a good idea, you should try to implement some sort of extension to make it easier
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by k1m on Thursday August 11, 2022 @07:27AM (#32424106)
Thanks. We already have extensions for most popular browsers: Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Edge. Links at the URL above. As well as an Android and iOS app.

Chrome extension here: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/push-to-kindle/pna...

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by sandos on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:31AM (#32423370)
The overdrive and epub support was the reason for me buying the kobo even after already owning a kindle. Still worth it just for the overdrive support.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by shultays on Thursday August 11, 2022 @07:28AM (#32424119)
it also has a (experimental) browser
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by maratc on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:36AM (#32423409)
Kobo only needs it to support transfers, and because it lacks emailing. If I want Overdrive, Dropbox and Pocket support, I have a smartphone for that.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Lio on Thursday August 11, 2022 @06:25AM (#32423717)
Kobo supports email transfers already, if that's what you want.

Just email to Dropbox and it'll sync onto the device.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by bayindirh on Thursday August 11, 2022 @06:24AM (#32423703)
Nothing beats a reading long form article from Pocket on an e-ink screen, though.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by ZeroGravitas on Thursday August 11, 2022 @06:17AM (#32423659)
Note if you email MOBI it might get its formatting randomly messed up.

https://standardebooks.org/help/how-to-use-our-ebooks#kindle...

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by nixgeek on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:17AM (#32427030)
I’m not incredibly comfortable with Kindle transmitting information on every page turn back to Amazon. Always felt a bit creepy to me.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/31/21117217/amazon-kindle-tr...

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by thebeardisred on Thursday August 11, 2022 @12:58PM (#32428646)
In that sense though, it's not much different from an RSS client reporting back to a synchronization server which articles you've read and which you haven't. It would be great to turn it off without resorting to "airplane mode", but it's also been a nice feature which allows me to squeeze in a little bit of reading from my phone when I don't have an e-reader on my person.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by toomuchtodo on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:04AM (#32426845)
The value prop is it’s not controlled by Amazon and the whims of a tech giant. Have we learned nothing?
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by qwerty456127 on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:21AM (#32422939)
AFAIK Kindle shows you ads and can occasionally delete a book from your library. Isn't it so?
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by PaulRobinson on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:59AM (#32423202)
My Kindle doesn't show ads, because I didn't buy the version that shows ads. I have never had a book deleted from my Kindle by Amazon.

There was a single instance of a couple of George Orwell's books being removed from user devices in July 2009. Customers had the purchase price they paid refunded. It was done because the company selling those books didn't actually have the rights to sell them. Afterwards, Jeff Bezos apologised and described it as "stupid, thoughtless, and painfully out of line with our principles". It is therefore unlikely to happen again.

Given the commercial structure of Amazon e-Books, does it make sense to buy something that gives you as a reader more rights (e.g. when you die)? Perhaps. But I know what I've got into, so has every other Kindle owner on Earth.

You do you, but your stated premise against Kindle is at best a little inaccurate and outdated, and at worst comes across perhaps a little hyperbolic.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by ectopod on Thursday August 11, 2022 @09:35AM (#32425325)
I bought a version that didn't show ads but I did a hardware reset after a few years. Now it does.

Since then they've also added an annoying carousel of sponsored apps to the home screen.

I've never bought an ebook from Amazon so at least I can easily move to something else when the kindle finally packs in.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by brokenkebab2 on Thursday August 11, 2022 @07:47AM (#32424272)
>Afterwards, Jeff Bezos apologised [...] It is therefore unlikely to happen again.

If it's still technically possible (it is), it will happen again. It's implemented to be used, even if occasionally. And mere existence of this feature is a clear declaration, you don't own it, you rent it. Many people may find it acceptable, taking other circumstances, but it's a big bold minus.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by appletrotter on Thursday August 11, 2022 @01:00PM (#32428664)
Just pirate your books if you’re so concerned.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by brokenkebab2 on Thursday August 11, 2022 @01:13PM (#32428850)
I'm concerned by the fact that Amazon can delete files from a device I bought. How is this related to your comment? I don't see
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by gambiting on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:28AM (#32422995)
If you buy a kindle that is specifically advertised as having ads(and therefore being sold for less money), then yes, you will get ads. If you don't want them, buy the ad free version.

And the deletion from your library happened...once? Over millions of titles available?

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Iolaum on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:50AM (#32423131)
The title that got removed was 1984, you can't make this stuff up

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18am...

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by filmgirlcw on Thursday August 11, 2022 @11:28AM (#32427202)
Totally agree that the optics on this were horrendous. And Amazon admitted as much 13 years ago.

The only slight thing I’ll say in their defense is that since the uploaded (it was through a self-service system) didn’t have the rights to upload those books (essentially, a third-party pirated the book, uploaded it to Amazon’s servers and then sold the book they didn’t have rights to), I understand the thought process that you’d delete and refund. It’s not like this was a legitimate book they removed. It was literally pirated. Removing books from purchaser’s devices was absolutely the wrong move and has created negative PR for Amazon for 13 years because of one bad decision. But Amazon has admitted it was the wrong move and to my knowledge hasn’t done it again.

In fact, there are a number of books I’ve bought from Amazon over the years that are no longer available on Kindle for a variety of reasons (sometimes publishers pull them, sometimes authors) that I can still download retroactively to any of my devices. So if I’m going to be locked into any ecosystem, and this is just me, I’d rather be locked into the ecosystem that has had its DRM cracked pretty succinctly (meaning I can use my purchases on non-Amazon devices or apps) and that has an insanely robust library of books. Oh, and that integrates with my Audible library.

Compare that to iBooks, where the DRM hasn’t been broken (at least, not the current scheme. Some people have had success using insanely old versions of iTunes and DRM rippers from more than a decade ago, but that’s not a reliable or approachable method) and I can’t read any of those books on my Eink devices, or Kobo, which doesn’t have as robust of a library and has always had that weird store-brand Frosted Flakes feeling, and I’m very happy to be inside the Kindle world.

Plus, my Kindle Oasis has truly been a treat. (I said I would never buy one and now have bought two, so jokes on me).

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by gambiting on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:55AM (#32423173)
Yeah, which is pretty incredible from PR perspective and I can't believe Amazon let that happen in the first place.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Turing_Machine on Thursday August 11, 2022 @02:47PM (#32430079)
I don't think Amazon actually had a realistic choice there.

The edition of 1984 in question was pirated. Amazon could either remove it, or face a massive fine for distributing pirated material.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by gambiting on Thursday August 11, 2022 @03:16PM (#32430411)
Ah, right. Didn't know that!
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by ta988 on Thursday August 11, 2022 @10:09AM (#32425842)
That's what happens when you design systems with no humans in the loop.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by haxnewsben on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:32AM (#32423373)
Also, if you buy the one with ads (because it's cheaper), you can literally just go on amazon customer support chat and ask them nicely to turn them off. It's worked for the few kindles I've owned
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by deelly on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:38AM (#32423058)
Honestly, one time is enough.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by gambiting on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:54AM (#32423168)
Really? I guess you don't use Steam either then?
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Maken on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:03AM (#32423222)
When Steam removes a game, it means they no longer sell it, but they don't remove it from your computer nor stop you from downloading it if you already adquired it.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by gambiting on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:04AM (#32423230)
Typically, yes - but they have also removed games from user libraries, preventing them from ever downloading the game again - exactly like Amazon has done in that one instance with an eBook.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/12/30/steam-remov...

My point is - OP said that "once is enough" - well by that metric, I'm asking if they also don't use steam, because Steam has done exactly this at least once in the past.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Namari on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:00AM (#32423205)
Can't believe there is such a thing of having an Ereader with ads. Ok it's cheaper but come on, that really shows us how low they think of us. I can understand for a free product but for something you pay ... like seriously!
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by 5e92cb50239222b on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:06AM (#32423240)
They're only on the lock screen, never when you're actually reading. I've had the same ad for years (because I use the device with Wi-Fi off) and have no idea what's on it since I never paid any attention.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by gambiting on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:03AM (#32423217)
It's a very clear trade off - you get the device for less money, but you get ads. How is this "how low they think of us"?????
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Namari on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:16AM (#32423297)
I think this trade off shouldn't exist in the first place.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by barry-cotter on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:26AM (#32423344)
I know, right? Poorer people should just suck it up instead of having the option to get it cheaper. Wait another month to buy it and don’t offend my aesthetics.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Namari on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:32AM (#32423374)
Can you at least upgrade or you get stuck with ads until the end?
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by gambiting on Thursday August 11, 2022 @06:00AM (#32423573)
You can pay the difference between the ad-supported and ads-free model to get rid of the ads at any point, yet.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Namari on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:34AM (#32423390)
Or maybe they could make it cheaper in the first place? They got a lot of profit from the ebooks already.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by gambiting on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:59AM (#32423567)
That's a different argument to the one you were making. And frankly the "why isn't this cheaper, hasn't the company profited enough" argument is never a very compelling one. Amazon isn't a charity.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by gambiting on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:20AM (#32423312)
Why? Do you think companies giving you 10% in exchange for signing up for their newsletter shouldn't be able to do so too?

It's the same thing - you get a discount for signing up to their ads campaign.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Namari on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:31AM (#32423367)
Well they already got profits on their bookstore, why would they need to make a version where you got ads on top of that. I guess if we follow your logic they could build phones, consoles and TVs with ads too. I can understand free books with ads but not the hardware/software that reads it.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by corobo on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:01AM (#32424378)
So that you decide if you want to buy the one with ads (eww, gross!) or the one without ads (woohoo, I beat the system for a tenner!). Meanwhile Amazon are happy you bought one of them rather than deciding to buy one or not.

The ads are the front cover of some other book on the lock screen instead of the one you're reading. I dislike a lot of Amazon's methods but this one scenario is honestly a contender for least invasive advert still in use 2022.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by eddieroger on Thursday August 11, 2022 @09:38AM (#32425360)
You know, hardware isn't free, right? Each Kindle model requires R&D, design, testing, manufacturing, lots of work to product, beyond the ability to show books. Sure Amazon makes money off the books, too, but those files aren't free to store on a server (and the servers aren't free), or free to send to you over the Internet, and so on. Ads support hardware cost. If you don't want to see ads, buy the one without ads.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by gambiting on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:58AM (#32423560)
Again, if Amazon just said "hey you get £10 off your Kindle purchase if you subscribe to our newsletter", would that be any better?

>>why would they need to make a version where you got ads on top of that

Gee, to make a device cheaper for you.

>>I guess if we follow your logic they could build phones, consoles and TVs with ads too

I mean....yes. I'm just surprised this hasn't happened already.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Beldin on Thursday August 11, 2022 @07:55AM (#32424332)
It has - 5 or so years ago, non-smart TVs were more expensive than the same ones with "smartness".
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by senko on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:05AM (#32423231)
Wait until you figure out printed books (paperbacks) come with ads too ...
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by Namari on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:15AM (#32423287)
They already do, especially like the travel guides, there are always some ads here and there :|
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by barry-cotter on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:23AM (#32423328)
That was the point. You were being mocked for your naïveté.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by II2II on Thursday August 11, 2022 @02:58PM (#32430189)
Both Kobo and Kindle include ads on their home screen. Heck, they even have complete storefronts built in. While I realize this isn't what most people mean by ads, I'm a bit old fashioned and don't see much of a difference.

If you want something that is truly ad-free, try the KOReader software.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by dizhn on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:28AM (#32422994)
It shows ads if you buy the cheaper ad supported version. (They even removed the ads for me because Amazon did not sell books in my country)
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by chrisseaton on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:24AM (#32422962)
> Kindle shows you ads

Never seen an advert on my Kindle.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by actionfromafar on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:28AM (#32422993)
I turned off WiFi on mine because I was too annoyed by ads.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by chrisseaton on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:55AM (#32423175)
Where do they show up? Never seen one.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by 5e92cb50239222b on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:09AM (#32423255)
An ad replaces the "screen saver" when you unlock the device (until you swipe it away), and there's a small banner at the bottom of the book list in the main menu. You probably bought a more expensive version with no ads. They can also be removed later for a small fee, or you can simply never enable wi-fi and there will be no ads at all.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by sofixa on Thursday August 11, 2022 @04:59AM (#32423200)
There's a specific, cheaper version (10 euros cheaper in France) that has ads in.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by biztos on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:33AM (#32423379)
I used a Kobo for a long time and I just bought a Kindle, because it was so hard to get articles on the Kobo. They stopped supporting direct file transfers from Mac, so I was left with Pocket, and Pocket didn't think a lot of what I tried to save was "articles."

So far I find that for my purposes, the Kindle is way easier to get content onto, and there's quite a bit of content I want that I can just buy there, but couldn't buy for Kobo.

I hope to not get locked in to the Amazon ecosystem but as of right now, my cheapest-model Kindle is way more useful than my old top-of-the-line Kobo.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by topbanana on Thursday August 11, 2022 @05:48AM (#32423485)
How do you get articles onto your Kindle?
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by damontal on Thursday August 11, 2022 @07:45AM (#32424255)
You can set Instapaper to auto send articles or a digest of articles to your kindle.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by biztos on Sunday August 14, 2022 @09:24AM (#32459044)
There are a bunch of conversion services, some with browser extensions. But I can also print a page as PDF in A5 format and E-Mail it to myself (you have a dedicated Kindle address at Amazon) with a title of “Convert” and it seems to do a very good job.

(A5 because it’s pretty close to the Kindle format and easy to find in the print dialog.)

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by gwbas1c on Thursday August 11, 2022 @09:27AM (#32425246)
I really only have three minor gripes about the Kindle ecosystem... (Which is why I like it so much.)

1: The desktop applications don't auto-sync. (I really like reading books on my laptop because it holds the screen at a comfortable angle. This is especially the case when reading while eating or doing something else with my hands.)

2: Sometimes the Android app is buggy, requiring that I reinstall. When I reinstall, I have to re-enter all my preferences.

3: Some of the default settings in the Android app are dumb, like showing popular highlights. I always turn that off as quickly as possible.

Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by RuggedPineapple on Thursday August 11, 2022 @09:40AM (#32425374)
My biggest issue is Kobo doesn't actually support epub, or at least the modern incarnation. Their reader software is woefully out of date and has terrible epub handling, so to get the features you expect you're back to the Calibre->reader loop you're on with kindle, only instead of converting to AZW3 or KFX you're converting to KePub, Kobo's homegrown version of epub they did instead. You can fix that by installing KOreader which DOES support the current epub format, but that again puts you in the same boat as the kindle (perhaps minus needing to jailbreak it) and the kindle has a much more robust community and support.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by AlanYx on Thursday August 11, 2022 @01:08PM (#32428777)
Kobos do support modern epubs, but for some inexplicable reason, they use their old epub2 renderer licensed from Adobe for all .epub files. You can just rename .epub files to .kepub and force Kobos to use the modern reader code. This gets you a lot better formatting. The catch is that location bookmarking becomes imprecise if you do this rather than use kepubify. It's super weird that they don't just offer the option to run kepubify locally on the device, behind the scenes.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by RuggedPineapple on Friday August 12, 2022 @02:16AM (#32435192)
This isn't really how it works though. It READS epub3, but only data that are valid epub2 structures is rendered. To get a subset (not even all) of epub3 formatting it needs to be built as a Kepub. You may be able to trick it with the extension, but there is some syntax difference. It really is a conversion if you want anything approaching true epub3 and even then its as mentioned a subset.
Re:Retirement of Amazon MOBI eBook file format by erispoe on Thursday August 11, 2022 @08:37AM (#32424745)
I am tempted to switch to Kobo just for the Pocket app.