I was looking for an album by a small punk band called Straighten Things Out called "Dawn Of A New Hope". Loved this album; listened to it all of the time on Apple Music (where I discovered it). Went on a walk one day and tried to load it...and it was gone.
I can't even find this album on eBay, and you can find everything there!
"Milo Goes To College" by The Descendants, a more well-known pop punk band, was removed as well. Randomly, without warning. The Descendants are often credited as the "fathers" of Pop Punk; basically any mainstream pop punk band you've heard of cites them as an influence. This album basically started this genre...and it's gone.
Fortunately there are enough vinyls of this record that make it easy to find when I one day build my epic vinyl collection.
Had I saved these to my iTunes Library or ripped them to a NAS of some kind, I'd still have it. (Fun fact: Milo Goes To College _was_ in my Google Play Music Locker, which Google sunsetted when they launched YouTube Music, so I lost that "copy". I'm also going to guess that it was in my iTunes Music Library as well, which still exists as cloud storage, but albums that you add to your iCloud Music Library from Apple Music are pointers to tracks in the streaming service which can go away at any time.)
Riverdance. Yeah, the Eurovision pause show from 1994 which became a huge hit and started a decade-long fad of various rhytmic dance ensembles touring the world and actually doing really well. Fantastic commercial success, of course. They did many CD releases, and there are a lot of differences between the recordings: the cast of performers, whether they have stepping noises mixed in, even the track listing. But you can only get the last of them on streaming services.
i hope that discussing secondhand sales in the context of piracy might not be off-topic. if it is on topic, discogs.com is a decent source for most secondhand recordings. if you visit [1] you'll see there are two different sellers offering copies there, as well as price histories. i have not found many releases not listed on discogs.
[1]: https://www.discogs.com/release/6768123-Straighten-Things-Ou...
...I'm a tad surprised that worked as well as it did:
1. https://vk.com/wall-112927118?w=wall-112927118_185 ("Download")
2. http://metalbootlegs08.blogspot.com/2016/10/descendents-milo... ("Official Website")
Oh, also - *hands you a vacuum cleaner that tends to eat things in case they disappear later* - maybe go wandering/exploring? These types of sites are incredibly fun yet even more transient.
piratebay might still point to trackers that have copies, but bittorrent isn't as popular as it was in the past
Mediafire is still up https://www.mediafire.com/
> piratebay might still point to trackers that have copies, but bittorrent isn't as popular as it was in the past
Most music pirates have moved on to using Soulseek (a P2P network) it seems. Releases not found on bittorrent can most likely be found on SLSK.
Just don't start hoarding terabytes of music you don't enjoy.
Politically incorrect music tends to get sent down the memory hole.
it's still an important album that i like to listen to.
It’s like mirroring Wikipedia on S3 and then publicly stating or even complaining that using Wikipedia costs hundreds of dollars.
Trying to one-up me on some stupid explanatory comparison makes me wonder if you are not simply deflecting responsibility off yourself and actually do hoard pathologically
I'm not sure why so many of the replies in this article are trying to interpret my post as some kind of call for help.
My point was that piracy is a service problem.
Your personal expenses for hoarding data, or the practice of hoarding data, have nil correlation to piracy itself.
To add to this at this point,
> Streaming services still have significant service problems that need to be addressed.
This connection is irrational as well - the name "streaming services" already implies that content is being streamed for viewing and not downloaded for storage.
If you are under a different assumption, or concerning other issues with streaming services, yes, piracy might be a service problem, but on the other hand, there are options available to actually buy and download content that you can also store.
Really, these associations you are seeing are incredibly irrational and this might be a contributing factor to people assuming this would be a call for help. I do not assume it is, data hoarding is not necessarily a problem in itself, but that doesn't make your invalid associations any more valid.
Yes, that's true. My point was that I'm already spending a lot of money to pirate, and that I would be spending that money to support the creators if something like steam existed. Not once did I say or even imply I was unhappy with that situation, not once did I imply that you needed to spend that kind of money in order to pirate.
I simply said that I spend a lot of money on piracy, and that there's a significant service problem with streaming services. The implication one could draw from that is that if the service problems were improved I'd be giving the money to the creators, instead of spending it on hard drives.
Instead some people seem to think this is some kind of an attack on piracy as being too expensive. Which is a reasonable mistake to make under the circumstances, if I could edit the post to clarify I would. I'd just appreciate it if you weren't so... aggressively misunderstanding. The reality is that I do a lot of other data-archival stuff on that server as well, and have made no claims about piracy being expensive.
> This connection is irrational as well - the name "streaming services" already implies that content is being streamed for viewing and not downloaded for storage.
Since you seem to care about rationality, try giving this a read: https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/A_Human%27s_Guide_to_Words
… okay then. Let’s leave it at that.
I remember all the way back to the late 90s, when we were already ridiculing the people who thought "streaming" was some radical new concept that was different/better than downloading. I remember a VC or some other exec hotshot coming to visit a startup I was involved in, insisting he was interested in investing in media streaming, not media downloading. Everyone on the eng team just held their chuckles until he left. There's really no technical difference between streaming and downloading, besides that streaming has an extra deletion step. It's all just transferring bits from one computer to another. "Streaming" is just downloading dressed up in a business suit.
I have to convert and move the original file for my TV anyway, so sometimes the file will be gone from my library, but I'm still seeding the original for a while afterwards.
It may not be rational. I know some people think I am crazy.
Listening "offline" by installing a shitty app is a severe service problem. It punishes me as a customer and doesn't stop any piracy anyway.
Files are just so much more flexible than an app. From my favorite artists I usually still buy CD since there are almost no alternatives. Of course I would prefer a digital download. Some offer it and that is much appreciated.
It's entirely rational. The availability of music/video on streaming services is very ephemeral.
If you really like something, buy a copy and store it locally.
"I can organize a music collection the way I want...AND take it with me wherever I go?"
Somewhere along the line "convenience" displaced "freedom".
"Why manage my own collection when I have Spotify or Apple Music?"
I suspect the pendulum will swing back at some point.
I have sirius xm in my car, which is how I learn about new things. But you could hear new stuff via FM or YouTube.
The truth is I don't spent $9.99 a month on average so maybe it is not that expensive.
[1] Example: https://rubberoh.bandcamp.com
If what spotify is doing isn't profitable then it isn't sustainable, so why sink your time into it? When they go belly up what happens to all the time you invested in it?
Thanks, didn't know about it and it's an interesting marketplace. Catalog is limited but I found bands that I follow there.
> When they go belly up what happens to all the time you invested in it?
Spotify is just a platform to listening to music, the subscription fee is like paying rent, time is invested in what I listen to. And it will not go belly up, at least not all streaming services, it will just raise subscription fees.
I understood your argument it's better to buy the albums now than to expend all that money on streaming and then later having to buy all of that anyways. But that is a misconception because not everyone is a collector and some are just explorers and like to listen to a new artist/album for a weeek and then move on.
I don't identify with this comment at all! How is it expensive and inconvenient?
I prefer to buyt the CD and rip it if possible, as then I have built-in backup. But if not, I'll buy the MP3 online, from amazon usually. Very easy.
Either that or we're on the same hallway. :)
Most of my collection is older stuff, not available on streaming services anymore. Forgotten, almost, in a lot of places since companies can't be bothered to license it anymore.
In an age where a lot of culturally relevant media is not stored on physical copies anymore, preserving what we love for our children is all the more important.
Data hoarding is not a problem. It's a hobby.
Everyone needs a hobby, most hobbies cost money.
Traveling? Cost money.
Woodworking? Cost money.
Photography? Cost money.
Biking? Cost money.
Gaming? Cost money (+ way more time).
Data hoarding is just a hobby like others. Plus data hoarding can have great value, if you choose to hoard good content.
I have probably filled at least 60TB of drives in the past year alone since my ISP has been ignoring data caps, and that is besides the large amount that IS deleted, as I do not archive anything that's been lossily compressed after being ripped unless a higher quality version does not publicly exist.
I "hoard" TOSEC libraries for every conceivable console and consumer computer system from ~1970 up to the PS3, but don't archive PC games past the DOS era, because Steam exists as a better service than I can provide for myself, so I use that. There is no equivalent service for music or film or Amiga games.
There is a believe that this will damage the hard drives. I am not sure how valid it is.
Or maybe I misinterpreted this post and they don't think it's a problem, which is fine then. But if the post is about how expensive it is to pirate... that expense has a lot to do with the data retention policy choice, not just the pirating. Is the point to be made.
It does seem to have aspects that are a bit more troublesome than people talk about. Reddit seems very pro hoarding, this thread seems to see it like physical hoarding.
It doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as this thread would make you think though.
Then he realized he had a box full of DVD-Rs, nicely ripped using DVDFab Decrypter and processed and RCE-stripped with the latest DVD Shrink, but had never gone back into that box to rewatch any of them, and had never been asked by anyone if he had any of those movies.
It was at that point where he decided if he really liked a movie, it was worth buying to have the original box and leaflet.
With bandwidth becoming a metered utility and cost of streaming becoming a ridiculously overpriced fiasco, it's more important than ever to be able to be able to buy and own content. Even cloud storage is now yet another costly monthly service set to rise over time, and that's why device makers are reducing the storage capabilities on phones and computers while prices still rise. We need to fight this trend by spending more carefully on devices and services, they often add no new value when updated besides new revenue streams for the companies.
I’ve only ever heard the term used in jest, at least partially, and in particular not ever with the same severity that actual hoarding receives.
This post seems a bit tongue-in-cheek, but if it's costing the OP more money than they'd like to spend on it, then it is a problem. Or maybe it's not.
I don't think what you were describing is a "problem" at all. And it looks like you don't view at it as a problem, either. Not sure why so many of the replies in this article are trying to interpret your post as some kind of call for help.
I hate the phrase "Data Hoarding" because the word hoarding has negative connotations that don't apply to collecting digital media. When you look at actual hoarders, their homes are disgusting, filled with trash, and not navigable. On the other hand, there are no negative effects of data "hoarding", besides maybe the cost of buying and powering hard drives. Most hobbies have monetary costs and don't carry negative connotations. It's no more of a problem than stamp collecting. We don't call people Stamp Hoarders.
It's one thing to be over budget for it, but the budget just may not be realistic for the project and cost expectations have to be adjusted or the project downscaled. That's not a problem really it's just a normal part of budgeting.
The problem comes in if OP were missing work to work on this thing, or neglecting personal relationships. Or so over budget it was putting them financially in the red, leading to risky loans to pay for or borrowing from friends/family or whatever else.
Problems are things that have real negative externalities, imo.
I've yet to see a pirate who isn't basically a library.
For the record, I don't require libraries to necessarily have to play nice with the Publishing Industrial Complex to be legitimate.
Long live the Signal! May it spread far and wide! Fnord!
You could easily be spending $45 a month just on streaming services.
As far as $45. I spend less than that on streaming services.
- Netflix $7 (T-mobile discount)
- HBO Max - Free - bundled with AT&T fiber
- Amazon Prime Video - I would have Amazon Prime anyway. But let’s attribute $6.00/month to it.
- AppleTV+ - it’s part of a bundle. But let’s attribute $5/month to it.
- Disney/Hulu no ads bundle - $14
- Paramount Plus - $10/month - no ads
Besides, I travel a lot and it’s much more convenient to use streaming (unlimited data) than trying to maintain hardware. My Plex server has been down for a year.
Admittedly- my wife and I do have the AMC Stubs+ movie pass ($50) because we actually enjoy going to the movies as part of date night.
What point are you trying to make?
Is that accurate?
How does the fact that he could be saving money support that?
The hard drives are the main power cost though.
Calculating it again the actual number is a bit lower than that, and it wasn't in US dollars.
Should is a tricky word. What is OPs income? What's the rest of their budget look like. What standards are you applying to their spending habits? What hardships do your models forecast for OP as a result of their hobby?
If you know what OP should do, presumably you have this data and can provide your numbers.
imagine this same person was someone who in the past might have hoarded VHS recordings or newspapers. How much space would that take up. A significant amount, to the point where we see the houses of hoarders and the hoarding has really damaged their ability to live. While data hoarding does take time and money, it doesn't have to take over one's physical space in the same manner.
So, while hoarding can be a problem, it really depends on the damage its doing to one's life. If one spends hours a day searching for content, neglecting one's life/family/job and putting them at risk, that's bad. If one has things automated, and its just a question of money they spend on it, then its just a question can they afford it. If they can, its just a hobby, not a sickness, as its not damaging to one's life.
Now, even with what I said, it can be hard for the person themselves to understand the effect it might be having on their life, perhaps until its too late (you think you are on top of things, but things unravel quickly).
Beyond that, hard drives are cheap! I have a single 18 TB disk in my main computer that runs Plex. It lets me and my kids watch content from anywhere with an Internet connection.
18 TB hard drives are about $300.
Fair warning: It is very dangerous to make statements like this in a public forum like this.
You run the risk of someone spotting it and making a seemingly-innocent reply along the lines of, "Oh, you should at LEAST have TWO disks set up as a mirror so you don't lose all your movies when (not if, but when) the disk dies." And then someone else will say, "LOL u noob, RAID not a backup!" Another participant will assure you that no data is safe unless it's stored at on at least a 5-disk ZFS array. And then someone else will jump in to point out that even ZFS is not safe if you're not running ECC memory. And course you can't just have ONE of these ECC-enabled 5-disk ZFS-breathing monsters, because every component ASIDE from the disks is a single point of failure, so you'd better have TWO just to be safe. Which means you'll need a UPS because sudden power loses are _awesome_ if you like having your platters scribbled all over by a browned-out disk controller. And what exactly is your disaster recovery plan in the event of a fire or flood, gotta have some infra running in good health off-site in case something like that happens. And so on.
Of course if you dig far enough into these admonitions and suggestions, the good news is that you won't have the time to watch any of those movies.
Weight off my shoulders!
Resilvering might take ages. So long that raid2 might be mandatory.
I haven't calculated the right risk factor but I still only use 4tb disks
Good enough for me, I assume it's way more likely that a PSU failure fries them all, in which case no variant of raid would have helped anyways. For important stuff I have an off-site Backup, but that's only around 800gb anyways and growing a few gb per year.
I hear about people who stopped hoarding when they discovered the hybrid middleground: debrid services, which cache torrents and usenet so they can be directly downloaded / streamed. you pay roughly the same per month as you would for the basic Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Disney, etc. packages but on just one subscription, i.e. all the content for the price of one. the quality and reliability is better too (4K, 10bit, 7.1, atmos, CDN..)
You mean Dredd 2012.
"Are you ready?" "Yes." "You don't look ready." Absolutely the best performance of Olivia Thirlby, although of course Karl Urban was great, too.
(The one complication is that I pirate using private BitTorrent tracker sites where I need to do some amount of seeding to stay on good terms, under conditions that vary from site to site, and can be hard to keep track of as I try to recover storage space).
But yeah, I'd say the cost of OP is not in the pirating, it's in the hoarding.
But certainly there is no guarantee, that is true.
(I don't use usenet as a source, myself).
Not OP, but I’m guilty of this.
However, I also rewatch anything I like and love introducing people to things they haven’t seen. It’s great being able to share a large library of curated content.
I absolutely love that Robocop is the specific movie that you felt needed to be mentioned. :)
Your fake concern an excuse for busy-bodying, which is a problem.
Did OP state it was a problem?
Not that I see - AFAICT the only people declaring it a problem are the busybodies latching on to OP spending the same amount on this hobby as they would dining out at a decent restaurant once a month.
The title ascribes it to "piracy" costs, which is incorrect. GL with whatever.
That doesn't say it's a problem. It's a statement of fact. You are projecting a problem onto it.
I pay more for dinner out than I would if signed up for HelloFresh to be delivered to my house.
What if I like eating out?
What if neither cost has any meaningful impact on my bottom line?
Is that a problem too?
I delete it. Poof, gone. But it’s still in the most important dataset I have. My memory. To help with the metadata of my own memory, I write down a list of the films I’ve seen. I only keep the movies I really love and want to rewatch (Robocop). That TV show I just finished that was great but I won’t rewatch. Boom, gonzo.
Your piracy is an excuse for data hoarding, which is a problem.