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Re:There Is No CD Revival by dusted on Friday April 29, 2022 @04:39AM (#31202830)
Many times, buying the CD and ripping it to FLAC* is the only way to legally acquire* music for use with your computer.

* It must be lossless and high quality.

* It must work offline.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by oofabz on Friday April 29, 2022 @04:52AM (#31202933)
That used to be true, but these days there are many sites selling legal FLAC downloads, like HDtracks, Qobuz, Bandcamp, and Bleep.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by bigiain on Friday April 29, 2022 @04:55AM (#31202950)
While that's true, those don't come close too having the range of music I'd like to own.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by spacexsucks on Friday April 29, 2022 @08:43AM (#31204373)
With streaming, you own nothing
Re:There Is No CD Revival by slothtrop on Friday April 29, 2022 @08:46AM (#31204405)
Chances are he isn't streaming it either if he can't find legal downloads.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by _Algernon_ on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:09AM (#31203049)
Only having experience with HDtracks, they don't really have much. Sure they have the most popular stuff for the most part but I often find that albums are missing for an artist or entire artists are missing. Not sure if it is a geographic restriction or if its like that everywhere.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by Semaphor on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:11AM (#31203385)
> Sure they have the most popular stuff

That sounds like you need to try bandcamp, because they are missing the most popular stuff ;)

Re:There Is No CD Revival by Cockbrand on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:58AM (#31203643)
Bandcamp really is a treasure trove for finding releases of established and new independent artists. It seems that their business model is quite fair towards artists as well. It also seems that their acquisition by Epic games hasn't negatively affected them so far.

[Edit]: And they offer all downloads I've encountered so far in several lossy and lossless formats, including FLAC and WAV

Re:There Is No CD Revival by Semaphor on Friday April 29, 2022 @09:01AM (#31204530)
Pretty much every metal band I discover, nowadays, is on bandcamp. I’m at 75 albums* and growing :) I really hope Epic won’t ruin it.

*: Mostly albums, some few are EPs or single tracks

Re:There Is No CD Revival by slothtrop on Sunday May 01, 2022 @10:44AM (#31225409)
The acquisition is still quite fresh. I'm not looking forward to the policy changes once they do roll out.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by chrisseaton on Friday April 29, 2022 @04:56AM (#31202958)
Apple Music and iTunes are lossless, high quality (often higher than a CD as they have multi-channel masters) and work offline, for example.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by iggldiggl on Friday April 29, 2022 @08:54AM (#31204455)
> iTunes [is] lossless

Is it? As far as I know, lossless is only offered for the Apple Music streaming service, but not for downloads from the iTunes store, which remain as 256K AAC files.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by pwthornton on Friday April 29, 2022 @11:33AM (#31206476)
This may be semantics, and I am not sure what counts as Apple Music versus iTunes these days, but you can download all files for offline listening in Apple Music. I assume if you can download a lossless file from Apple Music that you can also buy that same file in the iTunes store and then download it.

They both use the same app for playback, so this is a tad confusing.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by iggldiggl on Friday April 29, 2022 @11:51AM (#31206736)
Yes, but AFAIK things you download via your Apple Music subscription are still DRM-protected and can only be listened to as long as your subscription remains active.

Whereas the iTunes store downloads are a one time-purchase and have no DRM, so they're yours to keep.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by z3c0 on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:24AM (#31203138)
Do you retain ownership of the files upon cancelling your membership? If not, I wouldn't consider that "acquiring" so much as "borrowing".
Re:There Is No CD Revival by zekica on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:30AM (#31203167)
You do. They have some kind of a watermark or metadata specific to your copy but don't have DRM.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by moffkalast on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:11AM (#31203382)
Look at that subtle off-white metadata. Oh my god, it even has a watermark.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by crossroadsguy on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:18AM (#31203420)
Just the right amount of restriction. It just works.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by z3c0 on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:37AM (#31203204)
Nice! It's about time. Too bad they spent almost two decades doing the opposite, or I'd still have my account.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by pwdisswordfish0 on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:43AM (#31203239)
iTunes music has been DRM free since 2009 (with some exceptions, probably).
Re:There Is No CD Revival by z3c0 on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:51AM (#31203277)
Was that retroactively applied? Because my music from pre-2009 remained DRM'd, but maybe I just needed to re-download them. On top of that, it was all AAC, and I regularly had to convert the files to be usable anywhere but Apple's products. It became such a chore, that I gave up on the Apple music ecosystem entirely, and I don't really have any regrets about it.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by leveraction on Friday April 29, 2022 @07:32AM (#31203840)
Same here. I had 2 or 3 ipods back in the day and loved it although they had a tendency to fail on me. Eventually, I decided to remove my paid-for downloads off of my ipod. That is when I discovered Apple's DRM and the fact that iTunes was a totally closed universe. I had to abandon all my tunes and I was very mad. That was maybe 2007ish? I have not owned another Apple product of any kind since. They lost me for life not that it seems to have hurt them any.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by mschuster91 on Friday April 29, 2022 @12:31PM (#31207330)
VLC has supported AAC from at least 2006 onwards [1]. Yeah conversion has always been a pain in the butt but back in the time you had to convert between everything all the time anyway (the nastiest example being wma-based devices like the Zune).

[1] https://wiki.videolan.org/index.php?title=Advanced_Audio_Cod...

Re:There Is No CD Revival by ubercow13 on Friday April 29, 2022 @02:43PM (#31209121)
Only for iTunes ones, not Apple Music.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by prvc on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:14AM (#31203398)
The problem is the available library, and also, the need to convert to FLAC and re-tag for proper archival is no improvement over CDs.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by pbhjpbhj on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:44AM (#31203553)
FYI not this format shifting was legal in the UK but was made illegal again (a few years back), seemingly at the request of media companies.

Programmes like iTunes appear to be unlawful as they enable and encourage this infringement.

UK copyright law isn't fit for it's alleged purpose.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by kwhitefoot on Friday April 29, 2022 @07:23AM (#31203775)
> UK copyright law isn't fit for it's alleged purpose.

This is true of copyright law everywhere.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by andjd on Friday April 29, 2022 @12:29PM (#31207314)
Have you done a blind test comparing a 256 or 320 kbps AAC file to a FLAC one? At that bitrate, the AAC file is lossy in the sense that you can't recreate a bit-for-bit perfect copy of the original, but most humans shouldn't hear any difference.

A decent proxy to know that this is true is that at those bitrates, a FLAC file is often smaller than the AAC one. Yes, this makes you wonder why you'd want to use an lossy format instead of the lossless one if you have the choice ... but the point is that you'll probably have just as good an experience with a high-bitrate lossy-encoded file.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by masklinn on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:24PM (#31208110)
> Have you done a blind test comparing a 256 or 320 kbps AAC file to a FLAC one?

That's irrelevant, FLAC is an archival format. If you rip a CD, it makes perfect sense to rip it to flac in order to have no data loss whatsoever, and be able to fork it off to whatever lossy format is de rigueur for your new device. If you rip to a lossy format, then each copies will accumulate approximations from the different codec's perceptual models, especially if you keep deleting the previous copy and only keep the new one.

I don't put FLAC files on my phone, it takes way too much space, and the phone doesn't support it anyway. The phone gets AAC conversions of the "master" FLAC files.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by toastedwedge on Friday April 29, 2022 @02:04PM (#31208679)
I know thit is about personal entertainment value, but to hopefully add a different perspective: FLAC means being able to use it for mixing/mastering in DJ sets or compilations due to losslessness.

Besides, the quality of 256 VBR won't be the same as 256 CBR, but with FLAC, there's only different compression sizes.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by Melatonic on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:11PM (#31207894)
The advantage of storing in FLAC though is that if you do want to encode to a more lossy format later you are not going to make the file worse than if you were to originally go from say .wav to mp3. Or if you wanted to manipulate the file later for use in a movie or something. Given that tons of players do FLAC these days and storage is relatively cheap I don't really see any advantage to using AAC.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by masklinn on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:29PM (#31208200)
> storage is relatively cheap

Server storage is relatively cheap, mobile storage is a different kettle of fish, and even with a lot of storage, if you have a large music collection it's much easier to blow way past with FLAC as it's at least an order of magnitude larger than even high-quality lossy tracks. I can't put my entire collection on my phone even after having converted it to a lossy format, putting the lossless masters is plain not an option.

And since conversion is easy to do, and to automate, really the only reason to put lossless tracks on a device other than the storage server where they live is sheer laziness.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by Melatonic on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:37PM (#31208328)
Thats sort of exactly what I was talking about - keep your FLAC files on a desktop at home and then compress as needed for a phone
Re:There Is No CD Revival by dmonitor on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:04PM (#31207796)
That's also dependent on your headphones. I might have shitty earbuds today, but in the future when I might have 3D "puts the sound directly into your brain" phones, I might tell the difference
Re:There Is No CD Revival by masklinn on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:25PM (#31208125)
> That's also dependent on your headphones.

It's not.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by danjc on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:27AM (#31203467)
Came here to make this observation. Is this what the ethical DJ would do?

Adjacent question: what’s the legally correct way to license music for public use (e.g. DJ set)

Re:There Is No CD Revival by Sebb767 on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:38AM (#31203519)
You'd probably buy the music as a download file from an official store (like Beatport). In fact, a lot of good electronic stuff on there never saw a physical release, so ripping CDs is not even an option.

Licensing probably depends on your country. In Germany, you need to register with GEMA and pay a fee depending on the size of your audience.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by dhosek on Friday April 29, 2022 @11:23AM (#31206319)
>Licensing probably depends on your country.

Yep. In the US, it’s the venue that is responsible for the license. Technically, even playing a radio station in a public space requires that license, which is why most stores that have background music pay for Muzak or some similar service which bundles all the licensing costs along with the music stream itself. The license covers not just pre-recorded music but live music. I remember reading an account of a cover band which switched to playing originals because their venue didn’t have the licensing for them to play covers.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by CrlNvl on Friday April 29, 2022 @04:54AM (#31202944)
Qobuz allows you to download High Fidelity music without any DRM
Re:There Is No CD Revival by omnicognate on Friday April 29, 2022 @04:59AM (#31202976)
Yeah, there are lots of places selling DRM free, lossless music. However, between the lot of them they fall far short of comprehensive coverage and I frequently have to buy and rip CDs to get the music I want.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by iggldiggl on Friday April 29, 2022 @03:15PM (#31209508)
And occasionally you run into weird issues like where all online offerings are missing the pre-gap material from the CD, i.e. the bits between the tracks that are shown with a negative timestamp and which are only played when you play the disc straight through without hopping between different tracks.

Plus liner notes are often omitted online, and occasionally that, too, is a little bit of a shame, even if the main thing is of course the music itself.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by charcircuit on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:23AM (#31203131)
Making a COPY from the CD to your computer is not legal us unless you have a license that allows you to do so.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by rob74 on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:30AM (#31203166)
IANAL, but ripping a CD that you own and then using that digital music yourself is legal - providing the songs to someone else (who hasn't paid for the album) isn't.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by webmaven on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:02AM (#31203331)
> IANAL, but ripping a CD that you own and then using that digital music yourself is legal - providing the songs to someone else (who hasn't paid for the album) isn't.

I am also not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that providing files you ripped to someone else ISN'T legal, even if they"ve paid for the album:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMG_Recordings,_Inc._v._MP3.....

Re:There Is No CD Revival by needle0 on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:24AM (#31203448)
Re:There Is No CD Revival by webmaven on Saturday April 30, 2022 @01:09PM (#31217459)
Oh my. Fruit of the Poisoned Tree gone amok.

Thanks for sharing that.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by boomboomsubban on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:29AM (#31203477)
It depends. If the CD has DRM, bypassing that DRM for a personal copy is a crime. If there's no DRM, I believe creating a personal copy is acceptable.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by ChrisLomont on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:42AM (#31203542)
The CD format doesn't support DRM. Extremely few CDs tried to fiddle to add it by adding errors, but modern readers aren't stopped from reading the audio.

CDs are pure audio data with error correction.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by boomboomsubban on Friday April 29, 2022 @07:05AM (#31203679)
There's the whole Sony rootkit fiasco that shows that record labels have tried to put DRM on CD's. I have no idea how many continued to try, but if they did bypassing it is a crime, even if it's trivial to bypass. The DMCA is dumb.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by layer8 on Friday April 29, 2022 @10:25AM (#31205556)
You can always play back the CD in a CD player with digital audio out and record the digital signal using an appropriate 44.1 kHz capable sound card, resulting in more or less a bit-perfect copy. That’s not bypassing DRM, because you’re just using regular consumer audio devices for their intended purpose.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by ChrisLomont on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:45PM (#31208448)
That was adding an executable for a PC, it had nothing to do with the audio, which was and is still perfectly copyable.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by kevin_thibedeau on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:05PM (#31207808)
CDs do have copy protection flags. This is unrelated to the intentionally corrupt pressed discs meant to subvert CD-R recorders.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by ChrisLomont on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:51PM (#31208519)
And it's so difficult to find any hardware anywhere that respects that flag that hacker forums are filled with questions asking if anyone ever saw such a device.

Every modern copy or backup program ignores it, and it looks like none ever used it.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by kevin_thibedeau on Friday April 29, 2022 @01:55PM (#31208576)
It was used on standalone audio recorders.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by ChrisLomont on Friday April 29, 2022 @04:29PM (#31210227)
Yep, very few, and likely nothing anyone is using now to copy/backup CDs with.

In forums where people look for such things out of curiosity people mention they existed, but I've not yet found someone that owns one to play with.

And zero of them stopped the analog hole on those old devices.

Now, as to the actual bit(s). There were two bits, one said copyrighted work, one said is this a copy. Almost all CDs shipped with the copyright bit set and the "is a copy" bit set to 0. This meant you can make one copy of the CD (by law). The copy should have the "is a copy" bit set, meaning no more copies of the copied disc.

This means you can actually copy the original CD as many times as you want, since it always looked like an original, hence copyable.

Remember Sony hardware sold an order of magnitude more in value than Sony music :)

Again, a non-issue. To recap:

1. Very few CDs even bothered to set the bits. 2. None (?) set both bits, meaning you can copy any original CD, even with bit respecting hardware. 3. The bit(s) in no way changed the audio. 4. No copy software on PC I have ever heard of even looked at the bit. 5. Very few pieces of hardware respected the bit.

Did I miss anything?

Re:There Is No CD Revival by pbhjpbhj on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:46AM (#31203565)
Depends on your jurisdiction.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by bloak on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:36AM (#31203201)
You say that, but other people say the opposite. I have no idea who's right. If you happen to have a link to a detailed legal analysis, with references, feel free to post it. I don't promise to read it myself but probably someone reading this is sufficiently interested in copyright law to read further.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by michaelmrose on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:25AM (#31203451)
For practical purposes the legality of ripping ones one own legally acquired cds is meaningless because it is impossible that one should face enforcement regardless of legality. A good argument could be had that in the US it is fair use however its hard to establish the legality given that in nearly 40 years in the US nobody has ever insofar as I'm able to discern ever had action taken against them solely for copying CDs to a computer or device for personal use.

DVDs are more complicated as tools to remove DRM are illegal under the DMCA.

There are 100 different jurisdictions and while the law is different the practical situation is the same. Who is exactly going to police you copying your own cds in your own home? How is bob from bob's records to discover you have copied it? One should have to convince congress to require Operating systems to rat you out to bob then convince users to use such systems.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by pbhjpbhj on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:53AM (#31203606)
In the UK under RIPA some authority could get records from your ISP of accesses to a CD info download system. Then they can ask that service for the list of track titles. As copyright is tort, the balance of probabilities is then that you infringed copyright.

Doesn't quite make sense, as copyright is tort, but there are police departments devoted to court enforcement. I'd be wary.

Not saying it will happen, but seems easy to catch a lot of people with the draconian powers and laws of UK.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by michaelmrose on Friday April 29, 2022 @08:54AM (#31204456)
So we start with a wronged party like a copyright owner. They ask a service that is likely in a different country for all the info on the people who looked up metadata of ip they own and don't get laughed out of court.

Then they demand that isps all over the country give names and addresses of people all over the UK that broke no law and did no wrong in hopes of conducting a fishing expedition and don't get laughed out of court.

Now they know who pays the bill for each home network but have no idea who actually downloaded the perfectly legal metadata and no way whatsoever to correlate the data of unknown users of the data with potentially unnamed buyers who legally purchased mp3s from multiple channels like Apple but you think a judge is going to let you paw through every computer in someone's home because you think they probably ripped a cd instead of downloading it on itunes 6 years ago on a different computer at a different address.

Does this sound real?

Re:There Is No CD Revival by nybble41 on Friday April 29, 2022 @12:17PM (#31207132)
> So we start with a wronged party like a copyright owner.

"Wronged" implies that they were harmed in some way. A better term would be "offended". They discovered, indirectly, that someone else was doing something they don't approve of—which otherwise doesn't affect them at all—and they want it stopped by any means necessary, even though this will just make the other person worse off without materially improving their own situation.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by daveoc64 on Friday April 29, 2022 @08:23AM (#31204233)
Or you could have just put the CD into your PC to listen to the music, and it downloaded the metadata for on-screen use only?
Re:There Is No CD Revival by throwaway0x7E6 on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:47AM (#31203570)
they wouldn't go after nobodies, that's true. but if you're an inconvenient person for the powers that be, you may very well have the book get thrown at you.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by michaelmrose on Friday April 29, 2022 @08:55AM (#31204471)
Why hasn't this happened in decades?
Re:There Is No CD Revival by Beltalowda on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:55AM (#31203294)
It depends on the jurisdiction.

I don't know what the status is in the US, but copies for personal use are legal in the Netherlands. In fact, you actually pay a "private copying levy" for most devices capable of storing media (blank CDs, hard drives, phones, etc.)

Looks like there's something similar in a number of other European countries, but I don't know the details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

Re:There Is No CD Revival by Jaruzel on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:43AM (#31203545)
Here in the UK, it's currently illegal - the High Court ruled in favour of the Musicians Union back 2015, and it's yet to be overturned (again).

The distinction is, that while it's NOT illegal to copy a CD to another format, it IS illegal to make a copy of something that has someone else's copyright on it, be it music, spoken word, written documents, videos or photos etc.

Re:There Is No CD Revival by judysjacket on Friday April 29, 2022 @06:51AM (#31203595)
>it IS illegal to make a copy of something that has someone else's copyright on it

That can't be true.

It would mean doing backups are effectively illegal (can only backup your own files, not programs or the OS or any other files not created by oneself)

Re:There Is No CD Revival by Jaruzel on Friday April 29, 2022 @07:19AM (#31203742)
Unfortunately it is true.

Explained in the last paragraph of this section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping#United_Kingdom

Re:There Is No CD Revival by matheusmoreira on Friday April 29, 2022 @11:45AM (#31206623)
My country has a law that says I have the right to make backups for personal use.
Re:There Is No CD Revival by brazzy on Friday April 29, 2022 @05:27AM (#31203149)
That depends very much on where you live. It is legal in Canada and most of Europe.