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Re:Google outage – resolved by mmillin on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:00AM (#25416208)
Given the blast radius of this (all regions appear to be impacted) along with the fact that services that don't rely on auth are working as normal, it must be a global authN/Z issue. I do not envy Google engineers right now.
Re:Google outage – resolved by tarruda on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:45AM (#25416799)
> I do not envy Google engineers right now.

A few years ago I released a bug in production that prevented users from logging into our desktop app. It affected about ~1k users before we found out and rolled back the release.

I still remember a very cold feeling in my belly, barely could sleep that night. It is difficult to imagine what the people responsible for this are feeling right now.

Re:Google outage – resolved by papito on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:19AM (#25417144)
When I was interviewing at Morgan Stanley, I asked "how do you do this job if a mistake can cost people money?".

The answer was "well, if you don't do anything, you make NO money".

Re:Google outage – resolved by xenocratus on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:20AM (#25417798)
I'm reminded of the quote from Thomas J. Watson:

> Recently, I was asked if I was going to fire an employee who made a mistake that cost the company $600,000. No, I replied, I just spent $600,000 training him. Why would I want somebody to hire his experience?

Re:Google outage – resolved by huijzer on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:27AM (#25417884)
Agreed, and also it's worth noting that we're talking about companies here. Yes, for any individual the amount of money lost is insane, but that's the risk for the company. If one individual can accidentally nearly bankrupt the company, then the company did not have proper risk management in place.

That isn't too say that it wouldn't also affect my sleep quality.

Re:Google outage – resolved by Maxion on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:48AM (#25418140)
Sadly a lot of managers don't see it this way, they'd rather assign blame.
Re:Google outage – resolved by rebuilder on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:14AM (#25419207)
Depending on the company's culture, that calculus can vary. If management start firing subordinates for making mistakes, then what should be done to management if they fail to account for human error, resulting in multimillion-dollar losses?
Re:Google outage – resolved by papito on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:50AM (#25419706)
Well, why, good Sir - don't they usually get bonuses?
Re:Google outage – resolved by mavhc on Monday December 14, 2020 @10:24AM (#25418560)
They'd rather avoid the blame hitting them
Re:Google outage – resolved by sitkack on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @01:07AM (#25427505)
That is because they are managers, most got where they are by assigning rewards to themselves.
Re:Google outage – resolved by cvrjk on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:15AM (#25417740)
Welp, as a new grad there, I had brought down one very important database server on a Sunday night (a series of really unfortunate events). Multiple senior DBAs had to be involved to resuscitate it. It started functioning normally just a few hours before market open in HK. If it was any later, it would have been some serious monetary loss. Needless to say, I was sweating bullets. Couldn't eat anything the entire day lol. Took me like 2 days to calm down. And this was after I was fully shielded cuz I was a junior. God knows what would've happened if someone more experienced had done that.
Re:Google outage – resolved by h1srf on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:15AM (#25419221)
I brought down the order management system at a large bank during the middle of the trading day. The backup kicked in after about a minute but it was not fun on the trading floor.
Re:Google outage – resolved by b0afc375b5 on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:24AM (#25417844)
I'm so glad I'm not the only one feeling deployment anxiety. The project I'm involved in doesn't really have serious money involved, but when there's a regression found only after production deployment my stress levels go up a notch.
Re:Google outage – resolved by FloatingUp on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:35AM (#25417989)
When I was working at a pretty big IT provider in the electronic banking sector, we (management and senior devs) made it an unspoken rule, that: - Juniors shall also handle production deployments regularly. - A senior person is always on call (even if only unofficially / off the clock). - Junior devs are never blamed for fuckups, irrespective of the damage they caused.

That was the only way to help people develop routine regarding big production deployments.

Re:Google outage – resolved by awesomemonster on Monday December 14, 2020 @01:05PM (#25420887)
Same thing -- used to work at a very large hosting provider. One of our big internal infra management teams wouldn't consider newhires fully "part of the team" until they had caused a significant outage. It was genuinely a right of passage, as one person put it, "to cause a measurable part of the internet to disappear".

I got to see a lot of people pass through this right of passage, and it was always fun to watch. Everyone would take it incredibly seriously, some VP would invariably yell at them, but at the end of the day their managers and all their peers were smiling and clapping them on the back.

Re:Google outage – resolved by camjohnson26 on Monday December 14, 2020 @03:10PM (#25422572)
Sounds like hazing.
Re:Google outage – resolved by pdelgallego on Monday December 14, 2020 @10:55AM (#25418953)
as a new grad there, it wasn't your fault. There should be guardrails to protect you.
Re:Google outage – resolved by cvrjk on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:16AM (#25419233)
Yep. It was supposed to be a very small change. I blundered. My team understood that and was super supportive about it all too. But this was after it was all fixed.

During the outage though, no one (obviously) had time for me. This was a very important server. The tension and anxiety on the remediation call was through the roof. Every passing hour someone even more important in the chain of command was joining the call. At that time I thought I was done for...

Re:Google outage – resolved by onychomys on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:29AM (#25417909)
I work for an extremely famous hospital in the American midwest. We're divided into three sections, one for clinical work, one for research, and one for education. I always tell people that I'm pretty content being in research (which is less sexy than clinical), because if I screw something up, some PI's project takes ten months and one week instead of ten months. In clinical, if you screw something up, somebody dies! I just don't think I could handle that level of stress.
Re:Google outage – resolved by ignoramous on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:00AM (#25416956)
Same.

At AWS, I once took an entire AZ down of a public-facing production service (with a mis-typed command), but that was nothing compared to when I accidentally deleted an entire region via internal console (too many browser tabs). Thank goodness turned out to be unused / unlaunched, non-production stack. I felt horrible for hours despite zero impact (in both the cases).

Re:Google outage – resolved by papito on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:18AM (#25417130)
Jesus. One would think you'd have some safeguards for that. Even Dropbox will give you an alert if you try to nuke over 1,000 files. More reasons to COLOR CODE your work environments, if possible.
Re:Google outage – resolved by ignoramous on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:36AM (#25417302)
Yes but that was eons ago. The safeguards are well and truly in-place now. Not just one, several in fact.
Re:Google outage – resolved by qz2 on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:51AM (#25417465)
Apart from the ones that they haven't worked out yet :)
Re:Google outage – resolved by zentiggr on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:30AM (#25417926)
When I meet the engineer who can design for the unknown unknowns, I will bow to them.
Re:Google outage – resolved by papito on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:41AM (#25418055)
The trick is to be paranoid. You literally sit down and think exclusively about what COULD go wrong.
Re:Google outage – resolved by GreenWatermelon on Monday December 14, 2020 @04:57PM (#25423935)
Anxiety is a bitch.
Re:Google outage – resolved by sitkack on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @01:11AM (#25427521)
Formal methods for your formal methods. And never shipping on Friday.
Re:Google outage – resolved by marcus_holmes on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:24AM (#25417840)
colorblind (red/green) person here - 5% of the male population just don't see color enough for it to be an important visual clue.

So sure, color-code your environments, but if you find someone about to do something to a red environment that they clearly should only be doing to a green environment, just check if they're seeing what you're seeing before you sack them ;)

Re:Google outage – resolved by warrenm on Monday December 21, 2020 @11:24AM (#25496326)
My primary customer right now color codes both with "actual color", and with words - ie the RED environment is tagged with red color bars, and also big [black] letters in the [red] bars reading "RED"
Re:Google outage – resolved by ardy42 on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:56AM (#25418234)
> At AWS, I once took an entire AZ down of a public-facing production service (with a mis-typed command), but that was nothing compared to when I accidentally deleted an entire region via internal console (too many browser tabs). Thank goodness turned out to be unused / unlaunched, non-production stack. I felt horrible for hours despite zero impact (in both the cases).

It seems like a design flaw for actions like that to be so easy. E.g.

> Hey, we detected you want to delete an AWS region. Please have an authorized coworker enter their credentials to second your command.

Re:Google outage – resolved by ignoramous on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @10:40AM (#25431235)
If it was indeed in-production, I'd never in a million years have had access rights to delete the stack. Those are gated just the way one would imagine they should be.

The service stack for the region (and not an entire region itself) looked like prod, but wasn't. It made me feel like shit anyway.

Re:Google outage – resolved by znpy on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:45AM (#25418103)
It reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30jNsCVLpAE -- "GOTO 2017 • Debugging Under Fire: Keep your Head when Systems have Lost their Mind • Bryan Cantrill"
Re:Google outage – resolved by ayoubElk on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:12AM (#25417711)
Irrelevant to the discussion, but I just wanted to say thank you for the categorized list of users I can follow on your profile!
Re:Google outage – resolved by laddng on Monday December 14, 2020 @10:24AM (#25418557)
Which tool do you use to follow users on HN?
Re:Google outage – resolved by ignoramous on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:01AM (#25419034)
There used to be hystry.com [0] but it isn't functional anymore.

Another workflow, though cumbersome, is: Search for a username on hn.algolia, select "comments" and "past months" as filters, then press enter.

Ex: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&query=nostrademo...

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=71827

Re:Google outage – resolved by laddng on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:35AM (#25419506)
Thanks for sharing those tips!
Re:Google outage – resolved by rptr on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:26AM (#25417871)
wow, that list is crazy. thanks OP.
Re:Google outage – resolved by robertlagrant on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:07AM (#25417025)
Who automates the automators? :)
Re:Google outage – resolved by ahachete on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:56AM (#25417526)
Doesn't AWS (and every big cloud/enterprise) follow best-practices for production operation like FIT-ACER? https://pythian.com/uncategorized/fit-acer-dba-checklist/

That's even more surprising to me.

Re:Google outage – resolved by zeven7 on Monday December 14, 2020 @10:45AM (#25418813)
Several years back when I was working at Google I made a mistake that caused some of the special results in the knowledge cards to become unclickable for a small subset of queries for about an hour. As part of the postmortem I had to calculate how many people likely tried to interact with it while it was broken. It was a lot and really made me realize the magnitude of an otherwise seemingly small production failure. My boss didn't give me a hard time, just pointed me toward documentation about how to write the report. And crunching the numbers is what really made me feel the weight of it. It was a good process.

I feel for the engineer who has to calculate the cost of this bug.

Re:Google outage – resolved by robotnikman on Monday December 14, 2020 @03:15PM (#25422641)
This sounds like a good practice and hopefully something they still do. Calculating the exact numbers would definitely help cement the experience and its consequences into your mind.
Re:Google outage – resolved by zymhan on Monday December 14, 2020 @10:58AM (#25418999)
Presumably there were more failures than a single engineer could've been responsible for here.
Re:Google outage – resolved by fjcp on Monday December 14, 2020 @12:15PM (#25420083)
Its absolutely possible, the worst AWS outage was caused by one engineer running the wrong command [0].

"This past Tuesday morning Pacific Time an Amazon Web Services engineer was debugging an issue with the billing system for the company’s popular cloud storage service S3 and accidentally mistyped a command. What followed was a several hours’ long cloud outage that wreaked havoc across the internet and resulted in hundreds of millions of dollars in losses for AWS customers and others who rely on third-party services hosted by AWS."

[0] - https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2017/03/02/aws-...

Re:Google outage – resolved by rplnt on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:18AM (#25417128)
If you alone were able to do it, then the system was designed badly. The bigger the impact, the more robust it has to be to prevent accidents.
Re:Google outage – resolved by a3_nm on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:31AM (#25417262)
The big mistake in the system is that everyone in the world is relying on Google services... These problems would have less impact with a more diverse ecosystem.
Re:Google outage – resolved by lawrjone on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:49AM (#25417439)
Would they have less impact? Or would it have the same impact, just distributed across many more outages?

You can rely on Google outages being very few and far between, and recovering pretty fast. For the benefits you get from such a connected ecosystem, I'm not sure anyone is net positive from using a variety of different tools rather than Google supplying many of them.

Re:Google outage – resolved by rightbyte on Monday December 14, 2020 @10:50AM (#25418873)
Compare closing down one road for repair a day per year to closing down all roads one day a year.
Re:Google outage – resolved by lawrjone on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:09AM (#25419144)
I'm not sure I see that as a fair comparison. I think it's best to use the same durations for this, as an entire day changes the level of impact. <1hr outages have a fraction of the impact that an entire days outage might have.

It's obviously subjective, but even with our entire work leaning on Google– from GMail, GDrive and Google Docs, through to all our infrastructure being in GCP– todays outage just meant everyone took an hour break. History suggests we won't see another of these for another year, so everyone taking a collective 60m break has been minimally impactful vs many smaller, isolated outages spread over the year.

Re:Google outage – resolved by warrenm on Monday December 21, 2020 @11:25AM (#25496344)
Just think if Google actually decided to "take the day off"

...like I did a dozen+ years ago: https://antipaucity.com/2008/01/09/what-if-google-took-the-d...

Re:Google outage – resolved by domano on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:16AM (#25417112)
I remember how one of our engineers had his docker daemon connected to production instead of his local one and casually did a docker rm -f $(docker ps -aq) .

Same thing happened to me but with CI, which felt bad enough already.

Re:Google outage – resolved by selimnairb on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:23AM (#25417839)
"Hey let's make developers do two very different jobs, development, and operations. We'll call it DevOps. We'll save money. Everything will be fine."
Re:Google outage – resolved by alias_neo on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:50AM (#25417449)
No Engineer should have production access from their workstation. Period.

source: am Engineer =).

Re:Google outage – resolved by shawkinaw on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:03AM (#25417602)
Engineers shouldn’t deploy to prod directly, but sometimes it’s necessary to SSH into an instance for logs, stack dumps, etc. Source: worked for 2 big to very big tech cos.
Re:Google outage – resolved by alias_neo on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:22AM (#25417827)
For a large or v large tech co you should probably be aggregating logs to a centralised location that doesn't require access to production systems in this way. Stack dumps should also be collected safely off-system if necessary.

Perhaps my industry is a little more security conscious (I don't know which industry you're talking about), but this doesn't seem like good practice.

Re:Google outage – resolved by shawkinaw on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:54AM (#25418206)
Let me be clear, I agree it should not be normal to SSH into a prod box. Our logs are centrally aggregated. But it’s one thing to say it’s not normal, but quite another to say engineers shouldn't have access, because I totally disagree with that.
Re:Google outage – resolved by throwaway201103 on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:00AM (#25419016)
What normally (should) happens in that unusual case is that the engineer is issued a special short-lifetime credential to do what needs to be done. An audit trail is kept of when and to whom the credential was issued, for what purpose, when it was revoked, etc.
Re:Google outage – resolved by adwww on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:54AM (#25418200)
Who fixes the centralised log system when that needs debugging?

Unless prohibited in something like banking, following best practice to the letter is sometimes unacceptably slow for most industries.

Re:Google outage – resolved by mlnj on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:38AM (#25418031)
There should be tools that allow the team to gather such logs. Direct prod access is a recipe for disaster.
Re:Google outage – resolved by SteveNuts on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:22AM (#25417826)
Not having those things centralized is also a huge operational failure regardless of company size.
Re:Google outage – resolved by tasuki on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:54AM (#25417501)
Why not? (I think I can find some cases where production access from an engineer's workstation is a good idea)
Re:Google outage – resolved by alias_neo on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:19AM (#25417784)
It can be efficient, particularly in smaller companies, but that's where exactly this rule should be applied.

In some industries, security and customer requirements will at times mandate that developer workstations have no access to production. Deployments must even be carried out using different accounts than those used to access internal services, for security and auditing purposes.

There are of course good reasons for this; accidents, malicious engineers, overzealous engineers, lost/stolen equipment, risk avoidance, etc.

When you apply this rule, it makes for more process and perhaps slower response times to problems, but accidents or other internal-related issues mentioned above drop to zero.

Given how easy it is to destroy things these days with a single misplaced Kubernetes or Docker command, safeguards need to be put in place.

Let me tell you a little story from my experience;

I built myself a custom keyboard from a Numpad kit. I had gotten tired of typing so many docker commands in every day and I had the desire to build something. I built this little numpad into a full blown Docker control centre using QMK. A single key-press could deploy or destroy entire systems.

One day, something slid off of something else on my desk, onto said keyboard, pressing several of the keys while I happened to have an SSH session to a remote server in focus.

Suffice it to say, that little keyboard has never been seen since. On an unrelated topic, I don't have SSH access to production systems.

Re:Google outage – resolved by mlnj on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:42AM (#25418074)
This exactly. I have deleted database records from a production DB thinking I am executing on my development DB. I've kept separate credentials and revoked dev machine access to prod environment ever since.
Re:Google outage – resolved by tasuki on Monday December 14, 2020 @04:38PM (#25423711)
Congratulations - you found a counterexample yourself: engineers in small companies.
Re:Google outage – resolved by solids on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:07AM (#25417029)
Well, it's something that can happen to anyone, take it easy. When I made the transition from developer to manager and become responsible for this situations, at first every problem made me feel as you describe. Eventually what helped me to be free is the understanding that how we feel about a fact does not change anything about that fact.
Re:Google outage – resolved by cube00 on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:16AM (#25417119)
Don't be too hard on yourself, no dev works in a silo, there is usually user acceptance testing and product owner sign offs involved so they also have to wear some of this too.
Re:Google outage – resolved by mrcus on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:16AM (#25416458)
Nope, especially considering the implications of this, with the amount of people working remotely. Google Meet, Classroom, etc. are down. This is probably literally costing billions every minute just in loss of productivity.
Re:Google outage – resolved by ants_a on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:43AM (#25416783)
Total world economic output is ~$150M / minute, so billions every minute is off by few orders of magnitude.
Re:Google outage – resolved by tzs on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:00AM (#25417557)
You are assuming that a minute of disruption can not cause more than a minute's loss of productivity. I don't think that assumption is justified.

Consider an exactly one minute outage that affects multiple things I use for work.

First, I may not immediately recognize that the outage is actually with some single service provider. If several things are out I'm probably going to suspect it is something on my end, or maybe with my ISP. I might spend several minutes thoroughly checking that possibility out, before noticing that whatever it was seems to have been resolved.

Second, even if I immediately recognize it for what it is and immediately notice when it ends it might take me several minutes to get back to where I was. Not everything is designed to automatically and transparently recover from disruptions, and so I might have had things in progress when the outage stuck that will need manual cleanup and restarting.

Re:Google outage – resolved by ants_a on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:30AM (#25417924)
I'm also assuming most of the world doesn't grind to a halt when gmail is down. Crops keep growing and factories keep running.
Re:Google outage – resolved by itsrajju on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:47AM (#25418129)
Even software engineers who are in a state of flow keep working :)
Re:Google outage – resolved by rocho on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:45AM (#25416804)
That figure seems way too low, what are your sources on it?
Re:Google outage – resolved by ascar on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:55AM (#25416905)
Simple math says:

World GDP (via Google) $80,934,771,028,340

Minutes per year 365 * 24 * 60 = 525,600

Divide and you get 153,985,485

Re:Google outage – resolved by HPsquared on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:50AM (#25416853)
World GDP is $80 trillion per year.
Re:Google outage – resolved by rakoo on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:54AM (#25416902)
World GDP was ~$90B last year (https://databank.worldbank.org/data/download/GDP.pdf), which averages to ~$150M/minute
Re:Google outage – resolved by vultour on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:57AM (#25416920)
That's trillion not billion
Re:Google outage – resolved by jrh206 on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:12AM (#25417073)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion

A billion is a number with two distinct definitions:

- 1,000,000,000, i.e. one thousand million, or 10^9, as defined on the short scale. This is now the meaning in both British and American English.

- 1,000,000,000,000, i.e. one million million, or 10^12, as defined on the long scale. This is one thousand times larger than the short scale billion, and equivalent to the short scale trillion. This is the historical meaning in English and the current use in many non-English-speaking countries where billion and trillion 10^18 maintain their long scale definitions.

Nevertheless almost everyone uses 1B = 10^9 for technical discussions

Re:Google outage – resolved by ikt on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:44AM (#25417398)
This is a financial discussion though so:

https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-by-country/

World's GDP is $80,934,771,028,340 (nominal, 2017).

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%2480%2C934%2C771%2C02...

$80.93477102834 trillion

Nobody would argue world GDP is anything billion, that's crazy.

Re:Google outage – resolved by selectodude on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:16AM (#25419240)
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_pays_par_PIB_nominal

In France, they use milliard and billion.

Re:Google outage – resolved by rakoo on Monday December 14, 2020 @10:03AM (#25418319)
Sorry, language mistake. The result is the same: GDP is ~$150M/minute
Re:Google outage – resolved by kerng on Monday December 14, 2020 @12:12PM (#25420033)
That depends where in the world you are!
Re:Google outage – resolved by yashap on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:16AM (#25419241)
Indeed. Also, Google’s revenue is about $300K per minute. The value they provide is likely higher than that, but as you said, being able to send an email an hour later than you hoped it’s fine in most cases. Also, Google Search was fine, and that’s their highest impact product.

I’d guess actual losses to the world economy were more on the order of about $100K per minute, or about 1/3 of Google’s revenue. MAYBE a few hundred thousand per minute, though that seems unlikely with Search being unaffected, and everything else coming back. Certainly a far cry from billions per minute :)

Re:Google outage – resolved by demosito666 on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:31AM (#25419451)
I never understood this type of calculation as it implies that time is directly converted into money. However, I struggle to come up with an example for this. Even the most trivial labor cases like producing paperclips don't seem to be directly converting time into profit: even you will make 10k units instead of 100k this hour, you don't sell them immediately. They bring revenue to the firm via a long chain of convoluted contracts (both legal and "transactional") which are very loosely coupled to the immediate output.

Nothing is operating at minute margins unless it's explicitly priced on a minutely basis, like a cloud service. Even if a worked on a conveyor belt can't produce paperclips without looking at Google Docs sheet all the time, this will be absorbed by the buffers down the line. And only if the worker will fail to meet her monthly target due to this, loss of revenue might occur. But in this case the service has to be down for weeks.

In case of more complex conversions of time into money, like in the most of intellectual work, this is even less obvious that short downtimes will cause any measurable harm.

Re:Google outage – resolved by PeterStuer on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:23AM (#25417174)
Besides the exaggerated figure, I always find these claims bizarre. Sure, there was some momentary loss, but aggregated over a month this will not even register.
Re:Google outage – resolved by optimalsolver on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:12AM (#25417082)
I was unable to watch the Mogwai - Autorock music video. :-(
Re:Google outage – resolved by Corrado on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:10AM (#25419146)
In a previous lifetime I removed an "unused" TLS certificate. It turns out that it was a production cert that was being used to secure a whole state's worth of computers.

In my defence, the cert was not labeled properly, nor was it used properly, and there was no documentation. It took us 2 days to create a new cert and apply it to our software and deliver it to the customer. Those were 2 days I'll never get back. However, when I was finished the process was documented and the cert was labeled, so I guess its a win.

Re:Google outage – resolved by ilikehurdles on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:32AM (#25417263)
Coincidentally, Google Authenticator was finally just updated on iOS after many years without update.
Re:Google outage – resolved by beyondcompute on Monday December 14, 2020 @09:22AM (#25417828)
I am not sure why are they allowing it. Meaning why aren’t services completely isolated? Isn’t it obvious that in an intertwined environment those things are bound to happen (as in “question of when, not if”)? I understand, in smaller companies that are limited in resources (access to good developers and pressure to get product to market as soon as possible) we have single points of failure all over the place. But “the smartest developers on the planet”? What is it if not short-sighted disregard for risk management theories and practices? I mean, Calendar and Youtube, say, should be completely separate services hosted in different places, their teams should not even talk to each other. Yes, they can use same software components, frameworks and technologies. Standardization is very welcome. But decentralization should be an imperative.

Edit: again downvotes started! Thanks to everyone “supporting freedom of expression” :)

Re:Google outage – resolved by robotnikman on Monday December 14, 2020 @03:11PM (#25422581)
I've been in that situation before at one of my previous jobs, where some important IT infrastructure when down for the whole company. Nowhere as big of a scale as this, but it was easily one of the most stressful moments of my life
Re:Google outage – resolved by ojosilva on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:44AM (#25416794)
If this does not improve soon, we're looking at one of the most significant outages in recent internet history, at least from the number of people impacted.
Re:Google outage – resolved by Diederich on Monday December 14, 2020 @11:18AM (#25419263)
Several others have shared their 'I broke things' experiences, and so I feel compelled to weigh in.

Many years ago, I was directly responsible for causing a substantial percentage of all credit/debit/EBT authorizations from every WalMart store world-wide to time out, and this went on for several days straight.

On the ground, this kind of timeout was basically a long delay at the register. Back then, most authorizations would take four or five seconds. The timeout would add more than 15 seconds to that.

In other words, I gave many tens of millions of people a pretty bad checkout experience.

This stat (authorization time) was and remains something WalMart focuses quite heavily on, in real time and historically, so it was known right away that something was wrong. Yet it took us (Network Engineering) days to figure it out. The root cause summary: I had written a program to scan (parallelized) all of the store networks for network devices. Some of the addresses scanned were broadcast and network addresses, which caused a massive amplification of return traffic which flooded the satellite networks. Info about why it took so long to discover is below.

Back in the 1990s, when this happened, all of the stores were connected to the home office via two way Hughes satellite links. This was a relatively bandwidth limited resource that was managed very carefully for obvious reasons.

I had just started and co-created the Network Management team with one other engineer. Basically prior to my arrival, there had been little systematic management of the network and network devices.

I realized that there was nothing like a robust inventory of either the networks or the routers and hubs (not switches!) that made up those networks.

We did have some notion of store numbers and what network ranges were assigned to them, but that was inaccurate in many cases.

Given that there were tens of thousands of networks ranges in question, I wrote a program creatively called 'psychoping' that would ICMP scan all of those network ranges with adjustable parallelism.

I ran it against the test store networks, talked it over with the senior engineers, and was cleared for takeoff.

Thing is, I didn't start it right away; some other things came up that I had to deal with. I ended up started it over a week after review.

Why didn't this get caught right away? Well, when timeouts started to skyrocket across the network, many engineers started working on the problem. None of the normal, typical problems were applicable. More troubling, none of the existing monitoring programs looked for ICMP at all, which is what I was using exclusively.

So of course they immediately plugged a sniffer into the network and did data captures to see what was actually going on. And nothing unusual showed up, except a lot of drops.

We're talking > 20 years ago, so know that "sniffing" wasn't the trivial thing it is now. Network Engineering had a few extremely expensive Data General hardware sniffers.

And to these expensive sniffers, the traffic I was generating was invisible.

Two things: the program I wrote to generate the traffic had a small bug and was generating very slightly invalid packets. I don't remember the details, but it had something to do with the IP header.

These packets were correct enough to route through all of the relevant networks, but incorrect enough for the Data General sniffer to not see them.

So...there was a lot of 'intense' discussions between Network Engineering and all of the relevant vendors. (Hughes, ACC for the routers, Synoptics and ODS for the hubs)

In the end, a different kind of sniffer was brought in, which was able to see the packets I was generating. I had helpfully put my userid and desk phone number in the packet data, just in case someone needed to track raw packets back to me.

Though the impact was great, and it scared me to death, there were absolutely no negative consequences. WalMart Information Systems was, in the late 1990s, a very healthy organization.

Re:Google outage – resolved by leonidasv on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:41AM (#25416756)
Makes sense, at work we have an application running on Google Cloud and everything seems to be working. So the outage is probably not at network or infrastructure level.
Re:Google outage – resolved by ikiris on Monday December 14, 2020 @10:53AM (#25418930)
Went to reply, then saw the username. My guess was lb layer
Re:Google outage – resolved by reddotX on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:38AM (#25416714)
yeah, not working in Europe