News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jmcphers on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:00PM (#21051573)
You can easily store notes on a TI calculator. I had a TI-85 in college, and was occasionally guilty of writing TI-BASIC programs to make tests easier (for example, I had one which computed Euler's method).
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by clamprecht on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:37PM (#21052724)
In prison, only non-programmable calculators were allowed. A friend somehow had gotten a TI-85 in. I programmed it to say "NON-PROGRAMMABLE CALCULATOR" as its startup message, so they wouldn't take it during a random search.

I also wrote a basic stock portfolio manager - this was the only chance I had to program during my 5 years there.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by lenova on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @03:04AM (#21057314)
I fascinated by the hinted-at backstory here. Would you mind sharing how you came to program in prison? Was it before, or during your time that you learned?
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by gield on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @04:55AM (#21057881)
He has a Wikipedia page [1] if you want a bit more background information.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Lamprecht

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by clamprecht on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @09:00AM (#21059621)
I learned before I went to prison.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by russfink on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:41PM (#21052757)
Why would they care about a calculator?
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by clamprecht on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:18PM (#21053130)
Non-programmable calculators were fine - computers were not. A programmable calculator is basically a computer. In a computer you could store data that they couldn't access (encryption, even if it's very basic). Could be a list of gambling debts, escape plans, or other horrors. Most prison rules are "written in blood", so to speak.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by CobrastanJorji on Monday September 23, 2019 @06:38PM (#21054528)
Some prison rules are written in blood. Most prison rules are written in bureaucracy and profit motive. No prison escape movie ever ended with the guard preventing future escapes by instituting a new "no sleeveless shirts when visiting an inmate" rule.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by brokenmachine on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:04PM (#21054707)
Forgive my ignorance, but how do sleeveless shirts help facilitate an escape?
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by mandelbrotwurst on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:17AM (#21056797)
I could be wrong, but I think they're saying they do not, but many prisons have a rule against that anyway.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @03:29AM (#21057436)
I'd argue it's something to do with decency, appearance, atmosphere, given that (at least in my culture) while T-shirts are fine, sleeveless shirts are seen as rather trashy.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by xnyan on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @11:46AM (#21061399)
I agree with you. I do find your choice of word "decency" troubling to me. Dress codes are often about control and shame of the poor and in a prison visitors lobby that seems about right. This seems less about decency and more about telling poor people their clothes are not nice enough for a prison which is kind of funny considering prisons are purpose built to be among the worst places in existence in our society.

Trashy is sort of a slur on the poor. Not trying to call you out or anything, maybe there's a better word that trashy aka saying a person is like trash.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by xnyan on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @11:40AM (#21061341)
Lots of prisons have dress codes for visitors of prisoners banning visitors from certain kinds of clothing. On the banned list of items, you will never see Burberry tweed or men's sport coats, but rather t-shirts, types of shorts or other clothes poor people wear (often called "trashy" clothing). It's about shame and control.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by tlb on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:08PM (#21061642)
The link below shows a cross section of expensive designer fashion, exclusively for rich people. Almost all of it would be banned by prison dress codes.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=expensive+designer+fashion+runway&...

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by brokenmachine on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @08:17PM (#21066213)
Now I'm just picturing catwalk models marching into a prison dressed like that. Like a scene from Zoolander. :-)
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by zhte415 on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:53PM (#21055401)
Perhaps a reference to Prison Break, where a character had a map of the prison tattood to his body? Just a guess.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by xnyan on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @11:41AM (#21061355)
They are talking about visitors to prisoners. See my post above, but these dress codes are what dress codes are always for - control and/or shame.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by ronsor on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:25PM (#21055558)
Too bad you can do encryption using pen and paper (even RSA).
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by matthewmcg on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:39PM (#21055644)
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by VLM on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @07:48AM (#21058932)
Its easy for a guard to find pages of paper with uuencoded RSA keys handwritten on them during a random search, and then the investigation really gets started. However its hard to train every guard on every piece of digital technology that can theoretically contain data.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by make3 on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:40PM (#21054022)
I mean you could store some dumbly ciphered information on a sheet too, but I guess it's not as convenient
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by morpheuskafka on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:14PM (#21054788)
A microcontroller with a decent CPU (a Zilog Z80 in this case) could, given enough time, run some serious AES-256 encryption. The storage is minimal but it could be good enough.

Of course, you could always use a paper one-time pad, and if you can get the pad distributed without interception, there's no way they can ever break that.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by rajibsingh on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:48PM (#21055376)
once you've gotten to this level, you're pretty much guaranteed an A regardless
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by travisjungroth on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:19PM (#21055526)
Not sure if you caught the convo swapped to prison lol
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by Jtsummers on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:58PM (#21052925)
Rules in prisons and other high-security places are often extreme. They start with a simple kernel, which may or may not make sense: No personal computing devices (under the assumption that computing devices can be used for un-controlled communication, this may not have been articulated). Someone asks about people using calculators for their GED or whatever, so they permit them. Someone else realizes calculators can be computers (not in just the basic sense of performing computation, but general computers). They extend the rules but keep the carved out exception for non-programmable calculators.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by justinator on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:25PM (#21054855)
Found the guy who doesn't keep good accounting of his drug dealings while in prison.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by wallace_f on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:49AM (#21056667)
I remember watching the Troy Kell documentary and how they mentioned him OD'ing while in solitary. His only contact was with the guards. That must be the problem with how he got the drugs while in solitary -- the guards are allowed to have graphing calculators.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by esrauch on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:58PM (#21052930)
They presumably didn't want people using a TI-83/85 effectively as a gameboy.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by onemoresoop on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:55PM (#21054173)
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by esrauch on Saturday September 28, 2019 @05:00AM (#21099291)
Right: I meant the prison presumably doesn't want prisoners playing games (as is easy to do on these calculators). I'm actually a little confused that was a controversial thought.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by lancebeet on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:58AM (#21056708)
This doesn't seem to be an entirely American phenomenon. Gottfrid Svartholm, one of the founders of PirateBay, had significant issues getting a graphing calculator for self-study in Swedish prison. Graphing calculators were apparently deemed a security risk.

https://file.wikileaks.org/file/anakata/13.1_GSW_09042013_AP...

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by rwmurrayVT on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @09:07AM (#21059692)
We had one also in a low security facility. Random things always end up floating in when people transfer from camps to lows. For some reason at the camp we weren't allowed to have beard trimmers or fans. We didn't have AC so people would run out and smuggle in fans.. $250 just to have some minor comfort in the 95F heat :(
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by loblollyboy on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:26PM (#21054865)
What'd they get you for?
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by aasasd on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:54PM (#21055405)
Illegal operations.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by mcphage on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:19PM (#21052533)
> You can easily store notes on a TI calculator. I had a TI-85 in college, and was occasionally guilty of writing TI-BASIC programs to make tests easier

You're thinking in the wrong direction—testing companies don't really care if you can access notes that you wrote, they don't want you to be able to quickly type up new notes as you take the test. Specifically, they don't want you to be able to copy down the test questions, because they charge money to get old test questions. They don't want the test itself to get out.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by IIAOPSW on Monday September 23, 2019 @11:11PM (#21056136)
I had an 84 in high school and didn't even hide that I was doing this and didn't consider it cheating. The way I see it, if you understand the material well enough to program a computer to do it then you have understood the material. Not allowing me to make and use my own automation tool is just artificial difficulty. Now the kids who only used the program function to hide notes, those kids were cheaters.

To this day I don't consider myself to have understood something until I can code it.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by dgoldstein0 on Monday September 23, 2019 @11:19PM (#21056163)
This is somewhat fair, but the programs are also shareable. So if you s shared your program, presumably others could have the advantage without having understood the material
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by mrguyorama on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @04:24PM (#21064237)
My classes got around this by teaching how to make a TI84 quadratic solver program a short part of the curriculum. Introduced the students to the concept of building tools to help yourself pretty well. Most people didn't get programming because it was such a shallow dip into the field, but it sparked a couple minds. I had already done that basically a year earlier, when I had my programming awakening, so I did a lot of helping and after the lesson handing out my improved version of the code, as well as a self-made game
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by mattbreeden on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:15PM (#21053110)
You can do this just as easily as it was to make your original notes
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by hamandcheese on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:11PM (#21054764)
Which is not particularly easy. No way could anyone both pass a test and copy the questions into a ti84.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by Paul-ish on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:30PM (#21055590)
I don't think you would go in with the intention of passing. Just of recording all the questions.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by Fjolsvith on Monday September 23, 2019 @10:04PM (#21055771)
Ah, now I understand the 8 year degree.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by mcphage on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @10:29AM (#21071105)
> You can do this just as easily as it was to make your original notes

Maybe kids have gotten better at it since I was in school, but text entry on the TI-8x was a laborious process, and calculators with qwerty keyboards (like the TI-92) were quickly banned.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by the_narrator on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:04PM (#21054715)
This was common and well known even in the mid 90's with the TI-82. So much so that when my high school calculus class mostly bombed a test, the instructor asked us how we could have possibly failed his test when we were all using "notes" on our calculator.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jedberg on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:02PM (#21051599)
Most test proctors make you clear your memory before a test in high school. In college they don't care as much because they are used to making "open book tests".
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by therealrootuser on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:47PM (#21052150)
There was the little known, but powerful combo called "GROUP" and "ARCHIVE". GROUP allowed you to package together a set of programs. Archive would allow you to take that group and store it in the long term memory of the calculator. You can then "clear the memory" of the calculator, but can then immediately unarchive the grouped programs and get everything back how it was.

That said, I don't recall my teachers ever getting too fussy about having us clear our memory; in fact, iirc one of them actually told us to write programs to handle some of the nastier formulas.

Anyway, in my opinion, a good mathematics course should focus less on regurgitation of formulas, and more on problems solving---recognizing which theorems or strategies might apply to a problem and applying them to come up with a result.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by imglorp on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:09PM (#21052419)
Plus you probably learn more coding the algorithm into a calculator than you would learn regurgitating something from memory. That's a win either way.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by saddestcatever on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:24PM (#21052581)
Yes. For those that actually write the algorithm. For every other student in the class, copying someone else's code doesn't quite have the same benefit.... Students are humans. They will find the path of least resistance...
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by acjohnson55 on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:05PM (#21054722)
That was how I justified it to myself when I did this and ran a fake memory cleared / program hiding program on my 83. Sorry not sorry.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by vkou on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:08PM (#21053040)
You're measured on test scores, not on how much you learned.

If the rules say 'no computer assistance', and you break those rules in a way the test monitors didn't expect, the only people you are cheating are other students.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by wlesieutre on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:59PM (#21055095)
Back in Algebra 1 my teacher had a policy that you were allowed to use any program that you wrote yourself. More teachers should do that, though it'd get challenging to enforce if it weren't just the one or two nerdy kids taking you up on it.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by sdenton4 on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @02:01AM (#21056979)
One of my grad school math classes in differential geometry had a week-long take-home test. I requested to turn in a set of python scripts (i think this was juuuust before notebooks became A Thing), which the prof was happy to accept. The test problems effectively became test cases. I learned a ton.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by billforsternz on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:06PM (#21055460)
As a competitive chess player I have sometimes fantasised that there should be a rule allowing computer assistance providing you wrote the chess engine yourself. I've written a simple engine to complement my chess GUI but such a rule would definitely push me to massively improve it.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by thanatropism on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:23AM (#21056523)
It should be fairly easy to setup a parallel Lichess (or whatever it is you use) account and compare Elo ratings?
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by billforsternz on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:19AM (#21056801)
Sorry I don't understand this comment. In case it's not clear I was talking about classical, over the board chess.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by croon on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @04:51AM (#21057862)
There would be no difference other than acting it out on a physical board (as well).
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by billforsternz on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @06:38AM (#21058446)
True, but I still don't get what grandparent was talking about. Comparing Elo ratings of what why?
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by thanatropism on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @10:34PM (#21067038)
Of your account that plays with the aid of a chess engine and the one where you play unaided.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by billforsternz on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @12:39AM (#21067654)
Oh okay, right. Well yes hypothetically if there was such a rule, yes you could do that. But there never will be such a rule so I have never and will never play with computer assistance. On Lichess or over the board or anywhere else. And even hypothetically I am not sure what the point would be of proceeding as you suggest. Obviously I would be better with the computer assistance and have a higher Elo. But only once I got my engine up to be much stronger than me (otherwise there'd be no point in bothering).
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by gnicholas on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:36PM (#21055326)
I remember writing programs for my TI-85, and I learned those formulas better than if I'd just memorized them for the test. I don't think our teachers had any rules about this stuff, and they probably didn't even know it was possible.

I think the bigger "loophole" is the ability to quickly solve simultaneous and and quadratic equations very easily using built-in functions on the calculators. This saves real time on tests like the SAT, because all you have to do is reorganize the equation to be in the right order, then tap in the coefficients to get the answer.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by wlesieutre on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:44PM (#21055362)
The TI-89 is definitely not fair in a calculus class because it can solve most of the problems for you
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by madengr on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:20PM (#21055531)
Back when I was in calc, you actually had to show your work, so a calculator was pointless.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by wlesieutre on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:35PM (#21055614)
Still helpful to have a calculator verify your answers even if you have to solve the problems yourself
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by dagw on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @05:28AM (#21058042)
It's much easier to reverse engineer the right steps once you know the correct answer.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by hombre_fatal on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:07AM (#21056438)
I was in HS in the early 2000s and graphing calculator programs were advanced enough to show you the work on the way to the answer. You'd just copy the steps onto paper. Especially useful for blitzing homework.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by mrguyorama on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @04:28PM (#21064286)
Those calculators were much more expensive than the already crazy expensive TI-84 that I had. When I got to college/calculus and actually started struggling with math a bit, I learned how to use the ability of calculators to check work or solve the end product to re-derive a method or otherwise help guide me. It didn't always work, but once or twice it was the key to helping me get an answer and process
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by donatj on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:30AM (#21056848)
I found a program like this about 6 months into my 8 month B.C. Calc class. I blame the discovery on my mediocre B.C. exam score, as while I knew how to do everything I was pretty slow at remembering how with my assigned calculator.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by analognoise on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:37PM (#21055628)
You check your work with the calculator in the extra time after you're done with the test.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by tasogare on Monday September 23, 2019 @11:19PM (#21056164)
I get away using a smartphone (without internet access) during a translation test because dictionary was allowed and I’d wrote the dictionary software myself.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by gmiller123456 on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:47PM (#21062751)
nyway, in my opinion, a good mathematics course should focus less on regurgitation of formulas, and more on problems solving

Really depends on the goal of the course. I agree a lot of courses I took focused too much on memorizing equations, but if you haven't committed something to memory, odds are you won't recognize new problems it can be used to solve. So, yea, 99% of everything you memorize will be worthless, but the problem is predicting which 1% will be useful in the future.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by tanr54ok on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:06AM (#21056433)
Lol In the 90s the venerable ti82, 83, 85 just had battery backed ram. No long term memory.

Get off my lawn.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by Izkata on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:15PM (#21061712)
Note that they didn't say a version number. The TI-83 Plus most definitely did have long-term ("archive") memory. I even still have mine in working order.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by tanr54ok on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @03:54PM (#21063932)
I am aware of that. The “get off my lawn” is a reference to the fact that those of us who are older would not have had access to such modern conveniences as flash memory in high school, and that the poster is too young to be aware of TI calculators that didn’t have this feature.

Anyway I used an HP48GX throughout high school (carrying a TI83 only if absolutely necessary). The HP had a pretty much universal following in France.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by pkaye on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:16PM (#21051768)
Yes most of my engineering classes back in college allowed you to use a cheat-sheet. Cheat sheets are way faster than thumbing through a book or notes in a calculator. And most problems required you to show your work. Maybe you could cross-check your results and fix something.

The funny thing is to an extent, the performance of the student seems to be inversely proportional to the density of the cheat-sheet.

The worse thing you can request of a professor is to make it an "open book" test. Those tests are always damm hard.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by cydonian_monk on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:56PM (#21052264)
Cheat-sheets are also far more "real world" than the fake environment many schools cling to. I don't know a single practicing engineer that doesn't have a note scribbled somewhere. My engineering school recognized this decades ago and adjusted accordingly.

Now the math department? They were a different story. No calculators. Period. Ever. Made higher-level calculus... interesting. Thankfully I'd already had it in high school in a tools-based curriculum, so repeating it with just fundamentals was less of a headache than it might've been.

And I agree - the simpler the cheat sheet the better of an understanding of the subject the pupil is likely to have.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jacobolus on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:00PM (#21055101)
> Now the math department? They were a different story. No calculators. Period. Ever. Made higher-level calculus... interesting.

There is no reason for any math course at any level to ever need a calculator, period.

The point of math courses is learning to think, not learning to avoid fat-fingering tiny buttons or learning the specific crappy interface of some anachronistic antique machine.

Without an electronic calculator students can’t be expected to do as much mindless number crunching, so instead the problems can be made much more interesting, unique, and conceptually challenging.

Frankly the same goes for science courses. If people need to process data resulting from physical experiments they should use a machine with a full-sized keyboard and a real programming language. If you want something portable a slide rule is entirely sufficient for anything that might come up in high school or intro undergrad level science courses. The students might even learn something about significant figures.

I could plausibly believe that upper-division engineering courses benefit from handheld calculators – I have no experience with those – but foisting $100 calculators on every high school student is a tremendous scam.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by saagarjha on Monday September 23, 2019 @10:26PM (#21055899)
FWIW, not having to go into the details of how to find the antiderivative of an some mildly complicated function was a huge boon in my physics class.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by eru on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @03:24AM (#21057412)
I like mathematics that's about concepts and understanding.

But numbers are a big part of some mathematics too. And getting some help with them can be useful.

Lots of our past mathematical geniuses were great at calculating by hand. And some of them even invented some mechanical calculators (or electronic ones, too).

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by madengr on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:26PM (#21055569)
Couldn’t agree more. Though this was 1990, the professor for the calc classes could care less if you had a calculator, as it “won’t be of any use”.

Even in engineering and physics courses, you had better show all your work. If a numerical calculation was made in error, and you should all your work, you could still get a good amount of partial credit.

30 years later, I still just use a basic RPN calculator.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by baud147258 on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @07:48AM (#21058931)
For sciences courses, I remember one exam (at least) where calculators were forbidden and instead the exam sheet included a bunch of calculations that might or might not be needed. Of course it helped since if you land on a calculation that's on the sheet, you're likely on the right direction.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by toomanybeersies on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:21PM (#21055541)
The odd thing about my exams at high school (in New Zealand) is that although you were allowed to use a graphing calculator, you still had to show your working. So you'd plug the numbers into your trusty Casio graphing calculator, get the answer, then still have to work out the answer anyway.

In theory that means that you could use your graphing calculator to verify your answer. But in practice, people ended up spending too long trying to fiddle with their calculator, not knowing how to use it properly, and getting the wrong answer in their calculator but the right answer when they did it by hand, getting flustered that they didn't match, and crossing out their correct answer.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by mkl on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @04:37AM (#21057792)
> There is no reason for any math course at any level to ever need a calculator, period.

Numerical methods courses need calculators for questions about practice rather than theory. Basic (non-graphing) cheap ones are usually sufficient, though.

I think slide rules are thoroughly obsolete in almost every context. There's no point in wasting students' time when better tools are available.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jacobolus on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:41PM (#21062046)
None of the professional numerical analysts I know work with a handheld calculator.

The point of learning a slide rule is not that it is a particularly important practical tool, but that understanding how it works has independent pedagogical value.

If someone built their own electronic calculator from discrete components, programmed one on an FPGA, or even implemented a bunch of mathematical functions on an existing computer, that would be similarly educational (though teaching different things than the slide rule), but just knowing how to navigate the interface of an electronic calculator doesn’t teach anything.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by mkl on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @04:39PM (#21064366)
Professionals don't, but students need to, especially in study groups, tutorials, tests, and exams, when computers are not available. Calculators are also much more approachable than computers for this material for students with no programming knowledge.

The point of using a calculator is to skip over the tedious unimportant details when learning other things e.g. Newton's method or Euler's method. The calculator itself is a tool, not an educational destination.

Learning a slide rule as you say makes sense in a history of maths course, and implementing one's own calculator makes sense in an electronics or computer science course.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jacobolus on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @06:11PM (#21065161)
Computers are plenty available in “study groups and tutorials” (for one thing almost all college students and many high school students now have smartphones, and most college students also have laptops and/or tablets, but if you want a cheap computer just for math class, get a netbook or cheap android tablet and external keyboard or something made from a raspberry pi or ....)

There’s really not much pedagogical value in using a handheld calculator to apply Newton’s method to some root-finding problem or apply Euler’s method (forward differences) to model a differential equation. Both of these are very simple and students can learn enough of some simple programming language to implement them both in a very short amount of time. That time is much better spent than doing 4 or 5 examples of each with a handheld calculator. If a general-purpose programming language seems too much, get them implementing these simple tools in desmos or geogebra.

On a timed in-class exam in an introductory calculus course, there are much better ways of judging someone’s understanding than making them perform a bunch of tedious and error-prone number crunching. (For example you could give the students rulers and printed graphs of a function – without any symbolic expression written down – and ask them to sketch approximately what a solution using Newton’s method would look like).

If you want a nice introductory calculus book organized along more computer-focused and conceptual lines, take a look at http://www.math.smith.edu/~callahan/intromine.html

In a post-introductory-calculus “numerical analysis” course, the exams should consist of writing proofs, not performing algorithms.

The important thing for numerical analysts about different root-finding methods (etc.) is their convergence speed, numerical stability, computational complexity, and so on. In the 1960s and before it might have made sense to get students performing the role of human computer, but nowadays it is anachronistic.

> Learning a slide rule as you say makes sense in a history of maths course

No, learning how to use a slide rule makes sense in an algebra course for ~15-year-old secondary math students who are learning about logarithms, and for 15–17-year-old secondary science students. They’ll end up with a better intuitive understanding of logarithms and significant digits and error bounds after regularly using a slide rule for even a few weeks than any amount of reading about it or doing formal algebraic manipulation.

Electronic calculators give students a very misleading impression that all of the digits printed on its display are meaningful. But in high school chemistry, physics, etc. courses there is pretty much no experiment ever done with better than about 2 digits of precision.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by missosoup on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:58AM (#21056710)
You can't really do problems of meaningful complexity without either a calculator or forcing your class to do a large amount of arithmetic which is really not what you're testing. And at the same time you can't really twist those problems around to not require arithmetic, without also making them abstract and too different from what's encountered in the real world.

Try doing matrix multiplications for hidden markov chains without a calculator. I dare ya.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jacobolus on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:15AM (#21056783)
Nobody should be using a handheld calculator for nontrivial matrix multiplications. In “the real world” literally nobody does this.

Making students do nontrivial matrix calculations on a timed in-class exam just tests their calculator skills. There are a wide variety of alternative types of problems which will better probe their understanding of the course.

If your students are trying to learn about numerical linear algebra, consider getting them implementing the relevant algorithms in computer code.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by missosoup on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:22AM (#21056815)
> Making students do nontrivial matrix calculations on a timed in-class exam just tests their calculator skills [...]

> consider getting them implementing the relevant algorithms in computer code.

Cool, so we went from a statistics exam with no programming experience required, to a programming language exam with a theme of statistics. Because what? Because calculators are bad mmkay?

Yeah I'm not sure this idea has been thought through.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jacobolus on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:32AM (#21056858)
I thought your big concern was “what's encountered in the real world”?

Seems to me like the concern is “what someone decided should be in the curriculum 30 years ago and nobody ever bothered to change even though it is now an anachronism”.

But anyway, I am suggesting writing programs could potentially be part of the homework, not part of exams. (At least, writing computer models was far more useful for learning about statistics than any textbook problem I ever did. YMMV.)

On timed in-class exams, there are many relevant pen and paper exercises that could be posed. Posing problems requiring a handheld calculator is a generally poor way to track whether students understand the content of a course. Then again, personally I think timed in-class exams are terrible. YMMV; some teachers seem to love them.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by tripzilch on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @11:29AM (#21061213)
You're right except for when the exam is in numerical methods :)
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by whatshisface on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:30PM (#21053927)
>Now the math department? They were a different story. No calculators. Period. Ever. Made higher-level calculus... interesting.

When I took calculus the professor made sure that every arithmetic problem could be solved quickly. The trick he used was to carefully track factors when setting up the problem, so that the numbers never got very big, and also so that things had a way of cancelling (I can't tell you how many problems had one or zero as an answer.) Calculators weren't necessary and in fact would have been slower.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by spookthesunset on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:35PM (#21054925)
Yup. One clue you were going off course on a test in a high level math class was when all your numbers were getting rather crazy and unwieldy...

Usually the same rule applied in physics exams too...

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by blattimwind on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:52PM (#21055039)
Except some professors / PhDs deliberately set up exercise in a way that they involve large-ish (3-5 digits) or stupidly large (9+ digits) numbers to turn otherwise trivial exercises mostly into a mental math test. (Another all-time favourite of mine was the guy who always included an exercise in his exams that required you to determine the non-trivial prime factorization of a four digit number).

Good exam questions can be approached in multiple ways and are not a mental math test.

Bad math exam questions are usually those that can only be solved using one specific technique or lemma (ideally one that was only mentioned in passing once or twice) or require a lot of error-prone calculation.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by dagw on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @03:09AM (#21057336)
One clue you were going off course on a test in a high level math class was when all your numbers were getting rather crazy and unwieldy...

We had one professor who was rather infamous for being really sloppy when writing exam questions. On more than one occasion did he accidentally transpose a couple of numbers in a problem, turning an equation that should have easily reduced to a trivial linear problem into a 4th degree polynomial with complex roots.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by toomanybeersies on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:17PM (#21055508)
I only did 100-level mathematics at university (except for discrete mathematics), but for all my tests and exams, the lecturer made sure that all the problems could be solved (or reduced) without a calculator.

As long as you showed the working and the closest you could get without a calculator you'd get full marks (e.g. you could leave the answer as a fraction like 543/42, or as a power like 26^12).

They were quite good at my university for mathematics exams though. You were usually allowed a handwritten cheat sheet in the exam, and if you couldn't get the answer to a question that had follow-on questions they'd still give you marks for the follow-on question if you just made up an answer for the earlier question. If only the lectures weren't usually at 8 AM I might have gotten good grades.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jimktrains2 on Monday September 23, 2019 @06:09PM (#21054279)
I don't remember a math course I college anything but a ti89 or one of the other few capable of handling symbolic expressions would have even remotely helped with. The arithmetic was usually small or just non-existent.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by znpy on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:14PM (#21052471)
> The funny thing is to an extent, the performance of the student seems to be inversely proportional to the density of the cheat-sheet.

This brings back the memory of the circuit theory exam. You could bring a cheatsheet but it was mostly useless. The test had very simple numbers (1, -1, 2, 1/2, -i or things like that) because the professor didn't want to be bothered checking complex formulas and the difficulty was mostly in keeping all of the subject in your head and applying all of the procedures without messing up the signs.

Needless to say, that exam by that professor had a reasonable passing rate and there was prettu much no way around it: you had to study.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by Dylan16807 on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @05:24AM (#21058021)
Sorry for the tangent, but why did you use the phrase "Needless to say" there? I don't see how I could have inferred "reasonable passing rate" from the rest of your post.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by lr4444lr on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:50PM (#21054124)
You could use the Matrix operations common on standard graphing calculator to cheat through a first semester circuits course, and with a little basic programming make a command line prompt that any idiot could fill in to get the right answers. I don't know if most eng. students realize this at the time they take linear circuits, though.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by pwg on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:51PM (#21055708)
Maybe not all, but some did. Having matrix operations on my HP-15C certainly helped in my circuits exams for solving the simultaneous equations that resulted. And as far as the professors were concerned, solving the simultaneous equations was not the purpose of the exams, so they didn't care /how/ one solved them. The exam was on being able to setup the right simultaneous equations to arrive at the ultimate solution, not on the actual algebra of solving simultaneous equations.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by alexhutcheson on Monday September 23, 2019 @11:01PM (#21056092)
I don’t think this would be cheating. Setting up the system of equations is the skill that’s being tested. Having to solve that system to get the answer is incidental, and it’s mostly a skill the student is already assumed to have.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by toomanybeersies on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:23PM (#21055550)
You can also just do matrices by hand. I always found them quite easy once you got the hang of them, very easy and methodical.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by girvo on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:51PM (#21055706)
That was the first thing my tutor taught me in Grade 11, in preparation for Maths C (via distance education, that was fun). Still use that ability today, along with a fair bit of algebra and simple regressions
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by RandallBrown on Monday September 23, 2019 @06:33PM (#21054484)
I had one professor that allowed us to use the Internet on tests.

They were by far the hardest tests I took in college.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by markus_zhang on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:19AM (#21056495)
Yeah I always fear those take home exams...
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by cgriswald on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:49AM (#21056929)
That’s funny. My cheat sheets have always been very dense, heavily detailed, organized, and usually color coded affairs, and I’ve always performed highly. The process of creating the sheet helped me organize the topic in my mind and being thorough helped me root out any weak spots in my knowledge. It was also very rare I ever used the cheat sheet during the exam. I just didn’t need to after making it.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by bsamuels on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:09PM (#21051686)
The trick with those is you can make a TI-BASIC program that will make it look like you cleared the memory - fake empty "programs" list and all. There were a few tiny details you couldn't replicate like the highlighting animation, but they never noticed when I did it.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by lb1lf on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:42PM (#21052095)
When I was in our high school equivalent, our maths teacher blew that trick out of the water simply by having us all clear the calculator memory, then having us swap calculators at random.

Worked a charm. Next time, noone had bothered to hide notes as they didn't want to spend time helping some random sod out.

Solidarity is dead.

(You could, of course, try to counter this by having the entire class install the same cheat - but that would be unlikely to succeed...)

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by macintux on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:17PM (#21053791)
I’d be in trouble: I use RPN calculators, and am practically crippled if I try to use anything else.

Of course, I’d probably not be in as much trouble as whatever poor sod got stuck with my HP.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by lb1lf on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:13AM (#21056768)
Oh, we had one approved graphing calculator - well, two. The Casio FX-7700 and its big brother, the FX-9700.

Problem solved. Except if you happened to prefer RPN; I had a HP-48 which I had bought prior to the edict naming The One True Calculator - the day I enrolled at university, I started using it again, only to be met with a similar edict in my second term, naming the Ti-89 the only kosher graphing calculator.

Since I graduated, the HP-48 has been in daily use.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by Dylan16807 on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @05:26AM (#21058031)
They only allowed the one with the computer algebra system? How strange.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by ttul on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @12:33AM (#21056586)
An HP 48 put me through engineering school. I now own an HP Prime. Sweet piece of hardware. Of course, I have no use for it anymore.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by dillonmckay on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:13PM (#21054778)
48?
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by macintux on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:18PM (#21054814)
I’m actually not sure I still have my 48. I have one of the new limited edition 15s and an ancient 41.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jedberg on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:10PM (#21051700)
I in fact did this in high school. But now that the current high school teachers are people my age who actually grew up using the calculators, they are wise to that ploy. :)
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by JohnBooty on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:24PM (#21051876)
I went to high school in the early 90s, at the dawn of graphing calculators but before teachers were wise to the "notes" trick.

One time before a calc test I dropped my graphing calculator. The battery door popped off and the batteries popped out. The unit was otherwise unharmed... but my cheat sheet in the notes app was gone!

I nearly crapped my pants.

Luckily though... as most cheaters know... to make a decent cheat sheet you actually have to comprehend the material first. Half the time you wind up not even using your cheat sheet. Luckily for me that was the case. I still did well on the test.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by mmcgaha on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:35PM (#21053314)
I am a little older than you, so my cheat sheets were on paper. There was definitely something about miniaturizing notes that reinforced learning. I made dozens of cheat sheets but never had to use one.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by JohnBooty on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:21AM (#21056812)
Yeah, the vast majority of mine were on paper!

    There was definitely something about miniaturizing notes that reinforced learning
We have to comprehend a thing in order to summarize it, right? The more compact the summary, the more comprehension required. =)
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by logfromblammo on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:30PM (#21051961)
I also did this, but never got around to storing test-related materials in my phone. It was mainly for preserving my goofing-off programs.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by logfromblammo on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:24PM (#21053879)
Not phone. Calculator.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by mrlambchop on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @02:04AM (#21056991)
Guilty as charged. A program that did a <delay,print "RESET",delay> was enough (with a bit of execution timing) to show the examiner on the way into the hall that all was good.

The attention to detail really got to me however over time - the normal reset message was in lower case, but all the custom programs could print was in UPPER case. I was always "its sooo obvious - they'll find me out", when I saw RESET, but nobody ever clocked.

I never did use these notes or solvers in an exam - once I knew I had them, I would remember them anyway.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by avgDev on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:09PM (#21052415)
I did this.

Oddly enough in a computer science class we had an old professor. He accused me of cheating. He was right. However, he physically inspected my calculator like under the cover and where batteries are lol but did not check the programs. He apologized. I did well on the test.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by LgWoodenBadger on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:50PM (#21052841)
I'm having trouble figuring out what type of material in Computer Science would require a calculator.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by avgDev on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:01PM (#21052948)
It was weird. It was a course that had some assembly language and I'm pretty sure he wanted us to do some calculations. We were writing the code on paper, therefore, he allowed calculators.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by saagarjha on Monday September 23, 2019 @10:29PM (#21055915)
I had a problem on a test that asked to track a somewhat convoluted series of recursive calls. Being lazy, I reimplemented it in TI-BASIC and just ran it…
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by walshemj on Monday September 23, 2019 @06:36PM (#21054505)
Base conversions maybe for an entry level course
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by filmgirlcw on Monday September 23, 2019 @06:32PM (#21054471)
Yeah, that’s what I did. I also used a TI-89, which was fairly new at the time, and thus, the teachers/proctors weren’t as aware of its features and where to look for stuff that was hidden away.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by OGWhales on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:52PM (#21054143)
I’ve only had one professor that cleared my memory, that and AP exams. But even then, I would archive my programs so that they wouldn’t get deleted during the memory clear.

I’ve never seen a professor that knew about archived programs.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jrockway on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:27PM (#21051911)
It was always threatened but never actually done in my experience. I had programs for all the formulae we needed to memorize... but also memorized the formulas.

I think it is standardized tests where the "clear your memory" would come up, but again, it was never done. I also don't think they asked any questions where the programs would have been an advantage, either. (The thing that's stuck most in my mind is the quadratic formula. The SAT could ask you "find the roots of this equation", but you don't need to know the quadratic formula to do that... the test is multiple choice so you can just multiply their answers and pick the one that matches the question. For that reason, I don't think they ask that kind of question, but I could be wrong. It has been a while.)

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by asmithmd1 on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:49PM (#21052171)
I tried to cheat this exact same way with a test on the the Newton–Raphson method. My program even showed intermediate values so I could show my work.

The professor still got me, I wound up memorizing it because the effort it to write and debug the program.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by Legogris on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:32PM (#21053954)
FWIW, my university specifically only allowed calculators pre-approved as non-programmable for any exam.

Casio FX-82/Sharp EL-W531/Texas TI-30. These go for ~20$.

Fancier ones like the TI-84 etc were only allowed during lectures, where you can already use your phone or whatever.

I think the market is under change for sure. Apart from less distractions and more native interface, there's no edge in having a TI-84+ anymore.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by echelon on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:43PM (#21052107)
I think a better solution is to have the school purchase all of the calculators and give them to students at the time of the exam.

This also would align with driving costs down since schools will not want to pay $100 per calculator for their student body.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by sjwright on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:11PM (#21055476)
An even better solution would be to focus on the stuff that matters. A given question in a typical mathematics or engineering type test generally falls into three categories of testing—

1. Ability to identify the right methodology;

2. Memorisation of all steps of that methodology;

3. Ability to execute the methodology correctly;

Parts 1 and 3 are important to demonstrate learning, whereas in the real world 2 is not. Denying books and notes only penalises children who have difficulty with 2, which is stupid.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by notJim on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:58PM (#21052285)
So then you'd have to use a calculator you've never used before during a high stakes exam? Doesn't sound good to me.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by SkyMarshal on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:23PM (#21055245)
Not necessarily, presumably students would own the same version and use it during the year, but would have to use the school-owned ones for exams.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by macintux on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:18PM (#21053806)
Especially if you’re only comfortable with RPN.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by echelon on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:44PM (#21054071)
If the calculators are cheap and standard, the tool is not much different from a pencil. If yours doesn't work you can ask for a replacement.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by monocasa on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:59PM (#21052301)
> This also would align with driving costs down since schools will not want to pay $100 per calculator for their student body.

Lol, I don't think I've seen that argument made before. They already pay near college prices for the text books.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by thaumasiotes on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:41PM (#21054034)
When the quality of a school is rhetorically judged on its per-pupil spending, obviously administrators will want to pay more, not less, for whatever they happen to purchase.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by willis936 on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:06PM (#21055141)
I did this in emag instead of bothering with the grad, curl, laplacian, and spherical coordinate conversion by hand. I did them by hand in vector calc. All I’d be doing by doing it by hand is introducing room for error.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by selimthegrim on Monday September 23, 2019 @10:27PM (#21055902)
The real way to do this is using differential forms so you just have matrices that you read off. Using the appropriate metric and the normalized form you don't need to memorize anything (see section 5 of https://www.math.arizona.edu/~faris/methodsweb/manifold.pdf)
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jabl on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @03:49AM (#21057542)
I learned EM the traditional way with vector calculus, but I regret I never got around to properly learn it formulated via one of the generalizations like geometric algebra or differential forms.

Oh well, maybe someone will write a magnus opus EM book using differential forms to rival Jackson's book, and the next generation of students can learn it.

Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by selimthegrim on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @11:00AM (#21060903)
I think Zangwill mentions it
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by jmb12686 on Monday September 23, 2019 @09:35PM (#21055617)
I can also confirm that it was easy to store "notes" and write programs for TI calculators. The ability to store arbitrary ascii characters saved my butt on quite a few exams in the 2000s. Not quite sure which TI calculator I had, but I want to say 83+?
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by decoyworker on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:13PM (#21052457)
This is a contributing factor as to why I'm still shit at math to this day. I'd just spend all class writing programs in the calculator that did the work for me.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by ransom1538 on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:16PM (#21055211)
Ugh. You miss the point. It is the internet that is the issue.
Re:Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end? by mobilemidget on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:51PM (#21052855)
We even had snake to play on it