News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by the_duke on Friday August 30, 2019 @12:49PM (#20840248)
The Mozilla tech blogs are always a good read.

Informative and easy to digest. I can only think of one other company blogging with similar consistency/quality: Cloudflare.

Firefox performance has seen tremendous gains since their Project Quantum efforts.

It mostly feels on par with Chrome for me pretty much everywhere.

There is one glaring omission though: a single company where I have problems with FF on multiple apps - Google.

Gmail was still dog-slow the last time I tried, Youtube can send my fan into a frenzy and Docs is also regularly problematic. (on Linux)

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by chao- on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:10PM (#20841023)
I have the opposite experience with YouTube.

With an AMD GPU on Linux, Chrome churns, drops frames, and stutters horribly on even 1080p videos at 30fps. Firefox, meanwhile, handles 1440p60 video with no problem. Even two such videos simultaneously, on separate monitors.

Chrome became inexplicably better for parts of early 2019 (I did not note which versions), but starting 2 or 3 months ago Chrome returned to being unusable for YouTube beyond 720p videos.

Before anyone asks, this is on an AMD RX 580 with Mesa 18.0.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by usepgp on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:17PM (#20841679)
Hey, I'm on the chromium videostack team, would you mind filing a bug report for what you see happening with youtube? https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/entry
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by nwallin on Friday August 30, 2019 @08:52PM (#20843986)
Fixing this would be like eight steps forward: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=137247

The annoying part is that hardware acceleration works on chrome OS, so we know the support is buried in there somewhere.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by mehhh on Saturday August 31, 2019 @06:36AM (#20845555)
Google closed that as Won't Fix, they are very opinionated and steadfast in their opinion as an organization.

I doubt they will take Linux outside their own walled gardens seruously, Google has already shown their indifference to us Linux users.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by Dylan16807 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @08:59AM (#20846026)
They opened it as Won't Fix, which appears to be their way of saying that they'll accept work but it has a priority of less than zero.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by aliveupstairs on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:37PM (#20841849)
Well, if you're willing to investigate, using ungoogled chromium resulted in tremendous gains while using youtube to the point where I can speed up a video to 2x without the fan ever running amok against my ears.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by chao- on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:24PM (#20842856)
I will take a look this weekend and if I can properly explain and document the issue in detail, I will definitely give you everything I can.

I should add that for an identical Linux distro-and-version, and identical browser versions, my laptop (I forget the SKU, but Intel Broadwell U-series GPU) is about equal in performance between Chrome and Firefox. That is to say, 1440p60 runs smooth on each, so they're good enough that there's no issue from which to discern a difference (which is damned impressive for a 4-year old mobile chip, imo).

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by jhgjklj on Saturday August 31, 2019 @02:33PM (#20848022)
Asking to do the work of raising a bug to make a product better which is competing with other non profit product is in itself a bit arrogant in my opinion. On top of that the attitude to be lazy to search for the issue which was already marked as won't fix https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=137247 is not the right thing to do. I would have appreciated if you have created the issue with the details provided and shared the link her for the op to fill in more details.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by IronWolve on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:24PM (#20842336)
When chrome slows down for me, it normally means I need to run clear browsing history, delete cookies, cache, logins, etc. I have modern hardware, on both linux/windows same issue.

But using res on reddit and click "show images" you can tell chrome isn't as fast as other browsers, firefox/brave are visually faster/smoother in scrolling with pics. Hell, even firefox focus is faster on android. But I like chrome addons and sync with my mobile, its my daily driver. Normally I never notice, but a quick clean if starts acting out fixes it for me.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by jeena on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:57PM (#20842654)
Sync with my mobile and all the other devices (4 other computers) is one reason why I use Firefox. It's because it's the only browser, as far as I know, which lets me run my own sync server and offers a open source implementation of it.

https://jeena.net/firefox-sync-15

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by simcop2387 on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:21PM (#20842838)
Oh neat, when they first switched to sync that wasn't the case (the previous system did allow it over WebDAV and such), but because sync wasn't just a data dump with WebDAV it wasn't possible at launch to run your own server. I'll have to look into that again.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by giancarlostoro on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:44PM (#20843001)
As far back as I remember the code behind sync was on GitHub and I do mean the backend. It probably still is. But I let Mozilla host it cause they encrypt it. If I lose my password I lose my synched items.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by simcop2387 on Friday August 30, 2019 @07:52PM (#20843769)
It was there I think, but wasn't immediately possible to use a different server as they hadn't enabled or built that into the browser yet. They were still working out issues and I never bothered to check up on it because it seemed like the encryption was secure enough for me.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by mechapicard on Friday August 30, 2019 @06:51PM (#20843460)
Nothing stressed me out more than the time I genuinely forgot my FF password for a few days!
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by rocqua on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:02AM (#20845002)
If it's for a few days, how did you un-forget?
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by Yoric on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:00PM (#20842679)
Hey, I remember the time when Chrome was soooo fast and we needed to clean up all the stuff to get Firefox to run adequately :)
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by gameswithgo on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:26PM (#20841151)
have you double checked whether firefox is set to use your gpu or not, for video?
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by vetinari on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:17PM (#20842252)
Neither Firefox nor Chrome under Linux are capable of using GPU for video decoding.

Only some distribution-specific Chromium builds do.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by Yoric on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:01PM (#20842688)
I seem to remember that some GPU acceleration under Linux was disabled voluntarily, on both Firefox and Chrome, because they actually ran much slower than CPU, probably due to bad drivers.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by vetinari on Saturday August 31, 2019 @04:55AM (#20845276)
It is slower not due to drivers, but due to how the browsers[1] compose the final webpage. It does that using CPU, not GPU as on other operating systems, so hardware video decoding would involve moving the compressed video to GPU, waiting for it to decode, moving the decoded video back to RAM, do the composition, and then move the result back to GPU for display.

For hw decoding to have sense, GPU composition is needed. Hopefully webrender will bring that in for Linux too.

[1] Firefox actually, Chrome does use GPU composition. Chrome for ChromeOS even uses the same driver (libva+intel-vaapi-driver) as desktop linux for video decoding, Google just is not willing to support it on desktop. That's what some distributions enable in their Chromium builds.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by floatboth on Sunday September 01, 2019 @10:43AM (#20852530)
GPU layer composition was available in Firefox for ages, long before WebRender. It just was not enabled on Linux by default due to fear of bad drivers. But anyone who heard about it or asked about performance on various forums knows about layers.force-enable in about:config.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by ubercow13 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @04:14AM (#20845183)
That’s certain GPU acceleration of rendering - specifically for Firefox I think compositing is disabled by default. It’s not the same as GPU accelerated video decoding which isn’t implemented in either browser, except via a set of patches for Chromium.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by lima on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:29PM (#20842396)
Check about:gpu - sounds like hardware acceleration isn't working.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by chao- on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:29PM (#20842896)
It seems intentionally disabled. The about:gpu page reports the following:

>Accelerated video decode is unavailable on Linux: [137247](https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=137247)

>Disabled Features: accelerated_video_decode

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by lima on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @12:21PM (#20878683)
Just video or everything?
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by mechapicard on Friday August 30, 2019 @06:48PM (#20843437)
At least on MacOS firefox plays nice with Gsuite. Youtube can be hit or miss at high framerates every now and then.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by patrickmcnamara on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:35PM (#20840693)
YouTube is faster on Firefox on my laptop for some reason. I get zero dropped frames on Firefox too, compared to Chrome/Chromium.

Still waiting on Firefox to support hardware-accelerated decoding of videos though.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by mehrdadn on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:58PM (#20840913)
> Still waiting on Firefox to support hardware-accelerated decoding of videos though.

Wait, Firefox doesn't do this already? Didn't know.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by MrRadar on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:04PM (#20840971)
It does on Windows and Mac. On Linux it does not but hopefully WebRender should pave the way to enabling it (see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210726).
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by jorvi on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:23PM (#20842852)
Something is still extremely funky with video on macOS Firefox. Playing MP4s on YouTube still uses 200-400% more power than on Safari, and that's with transparent window disabled. Hell, Twitch turns my 2015 MBP into a vacuum cleaner but Safari barely breaks a sweat.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by MrRadar on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:55PM (#20843083)
Have you tried using a Nightly build of Firefox? There's recently been some work to use CoreAnimation on MacOS to reduce power consumption that hasn't made it to the Beta or Release channels yet. (See: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1429522)
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by jiripospisil on Friday August 30, 2019 @06:35PM (#20843348)
There's also [0] which investigates streamed video including YouTube specifically.

While for all major platforms even including Windows on ARM64 the performance is good for VP9, and somewhat degraded for high resolution H264 videos, the results for Mac are bad across all of them. It's not even possible to playback videos with a 480p resolution, without being affected by a lot of framedrops.

In those 15s of playback a 480p VP9 video produces around 5 dropped frames, a 720p and 1080p video already ~45 dropped frames. Really worse it is with 4k@60fps videos which have more than 400 dropped frames even with a playback speed of 1.0x!

[0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1576107

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by patrickmcnamara on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:17PM (#20841678)
Forgot to mention that I use GNU/Linux. My bad.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by pitaj on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:04PM (#20840967)
I'm fairly certain it does it already.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by michaelmrose on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:54PM (#20841471)
It says its using the GPU but if you look at the cpu time required to play a 1080p video within firefox vs playing the same video with mpv

www.mpv.io : a lightweight player that among other things can transparently stream any url understood by youtube-dl

It uses 20x as much cpu as mpv. For purposes of comparison this is like Toyota selling a car that goes just as fast as your Ford so long as you are OK with only getting 4MPG.

There is an addon if you prefer to right click on a url and open in mpv or in an addon like Tridactyl you can do the same with your keyboard. It also lets you speed up and slow down the playback speed which is nice for speakers who talk too slow and take a while to get to the point.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by cmcaine on Sunday September 01, 2019 @02:15PM (#20853745)
I use mpv on my laptop to get more out of the battery and to stop the fan annoying me.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by michaelmrose on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:12PM (#20841636)
It uses the GPU but doesn't use it to actually decode video on linux.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210726

Bug opened 4 years ago. Hundreds of millions in revenue and can't task one person for a summer to hook into the support that already exists.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by leeoniya on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:21PM (#20841712)
> Hundreds of millions in revenue

and probably < 0.5% of it due to its linux userbase?

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by vetinari on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:20PM (#20842281)
It's not that they have huge userbase lately, so they could afford to lose it any further.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by JohnBooty on Saturday August 31, 2019 @12:53AM (#20844668)
What would you consider a huge userbase?

Firefox has 230 million monthly users, using FF for an average of over 5 hours per day.

https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by vetinari on Saturday August 31, 2019 @05:01AM (#20845299)
Given that Linux has 2% desktop market share (let's be generous) and Firefox has 10% (let's be generous the same way), that would mean that Linux has potential to be 20% of Firefox users. Is that something you are going to ignore?

Many executives would sell their families for less opportunity.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by pjmlp on Saturday August 31, 2019 @08:01AM (#20845801)
The big difference is that those executives would be getting money out of those 20% customer base.

I seriously doubt that those 20% Firefox users even consider doing a $1 donation.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by zaphirplane on Saturday August 31, 2019 @10:40AM (#20846538)
Firefox makes money from the install base via the search engine default setting. Fairly sure more so than donations
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by pjmlp on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:39PM (#20848379)
Might be, is there any official numbers?

After all plenty also switch to other search engines.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by michaelmrose on Sunday September 01, 2019 @12:26AM (#20850475)
Are you sure? I bet 99% just leave it configured to use google.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by michaelmrose on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:39PM (#20842469)
Linux distros tend to ship with firefox and linux users are more concerned with open source. It would be strange if the percentage of mozillas userbase using linux was smaller than the general percentage of pc users running linux.

Its probably more fair to go on profit not revenue.

100 million in revenue * 2.18% is 2.2 million. A decrease of 10% of that is 220k. If engineers at mozilla are 150k then 3 months of work is aprox 38k.

This would put the break even point at losing 2% of its linux users by not spending the money.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by leeoniya on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:44PM (#20843008)
there are a lot of assumptions in your reply.

> 3 months of work

according to whom? this will almost certainly need more than a single engineer's eyes on it. and even if it is 3 months, that's 3 months they don't spend working on features for 98% of their userbase.

i want this to happen as much as anyone, but i just don't see the compelling math here. it's a chicken-egg problem (if FF could use VA API [1], then more might switch to linux).

personally, i'm happy that Panfrost recently got mainlined.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Acceleration_API

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by mr_puzzled on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:23PM (#20840567)
> Gmail was still dog-slow the last time I tried, Youtube can send my fan into a frenzy and Docs is also regularly problematic.

It seems to work fine on my system running Ubuntu 18.04 with ublock origin installed. Which OS are you using?

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by shadowfacts on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:38PM (#20840718)
Anecdotally with Firefox on macOS, Gmail is by far the worst offender. Switching inboxes/labels takes several seconds in FF and is near instant in Chrome. Scrolling performance in FF is also much worse.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by nvrspyx on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:00PM (#20840936)
In my opinion, macOS is definitely FF's weakest desktop platform. I've personally experienced terrible performance, out-of-place UI for the platform (e.g. default dropdowns), and just a generally less polished experience compared to Safari, Chrome, and Chromium derivatives.

I still use it as my default browser on macOS though because it does excel in other areas.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by duncanawoods on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:36PM (#20842945)
I have zero problems with FF MacOS. Might be something in your setup?
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by 1_player on Friday August 30, 2019 @07:04PM (#20843529)
Same for me, I tried the latest Nightly a couple days ago to test the CoreAnimation work, and after 1 hour of use my Slack tab because so unbearably sluggish each keypress would take 1 second to render.

No extensions, no GIFs, no heavy tabs open, perhaps one or two open tabs.

No slowdowns at all after 8 hours on Slack w/ Safari or Brave. Firefox is definitely the worst browser on macOS, compared to the Windows version where it's absolutely perfect and always quick.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by Caspy7 on Friday August 30, 2019 @08:12PM (#20843864)
I know about the CoreAnimation work. Hadn't heard about this accumulated sluggishness that you describe. Have you tried safe mode? A "Refresh"?
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by 1_player on Friday August 30, 2019 @09:31PM (#20844112)
It was an installation from scratch, no leftover files or configs. And I actually did a manual refresh in the preferences.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by omnimus on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:36PM (#20841842)
Interesting i never had such problems. I do webdev and Safari seems to be always the worst. But i dont use gmail.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by zachruss92 on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:02PM (#20840395)
Yea YouTube performance is nuts! It seems to be exacerbated when playing in full screen or @2x speed as well.

Google has been getting better though with supporting FF. They now support Hangouts on FF and Gmail is actually faster for me in FF than it is in Chrome.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by pjmlp on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:41PM (#20848386)
On Edge the slowness increases to the point that loading a ZX Spectrum game from tape feels psychologly faster.

A mute point however now with EdgeChrome.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by semi-extrinsic on Saturday August 31, 2019 @04:20PM (#20848583)
Not to nitpick, but it's "a moot point".

Fun fact, the word "moot" has the same origin as "meet". A "moot point" was originally "something that has to be discussed and decided at a meeting" (like a town hall or similar). Thus there was no sense in discussing it, since it was up to the meeting to decide. Also, scouts still call their congregations "a moot".

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by pjmlp on Saturday August 31, 2019 @05:30PM (#20848878)
Thanks for the correction.

<small rant mode>

Nowadays I have two sources of errors when writing.

My own lack of knowledge, or incorrect knowledge, and then the stupid auto corrections that just go down the drain due to me mostly typing across multiple languages. </small rant mode>

So whatever caused it, thanks again.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by TheArcane on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:32PM (#20841217)
I wanted to keep using FF despite being a gmail user so much so that I switched to Thunderbird for my emails.

I guess Mozilla wins this way.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by omnimus on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:38PM (#20841856)
I did the same and then ditched gmail for payed email service + my domain.

Thumderbird is underrated.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by pjmlp on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:43PM (#20848401)
Same here. Gmail is only an easy way to aggregate my emails, which I used yahoo for, and eventually might use something else.

Back home, Thunderbird, and the occasional donations.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by copperx on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:41PM (#20842489)
I thought Thunderbird was not under development anymore?
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by kilburn on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:33PM (#20842923)
It's been a weird story. Here's how I remember things going:

1. Mozilla Corp. dropped Thunderbird as one of their projects, and told the community they would have to figure out how to move ahead with the project if they wanted to. News of "Thunderbird is dead" spread out after this announcement.

2. It turned out there was plenty of interest in the project among the public. Donations came in, and the project was kept alive. They established the "Thunderbird Council" as their governance body.

3. The project still needed some legal home and assistance. The Mozilla Foundation (the non-profit) offered to serve as that. The council studied several options and decided to accept this offer.

And this is how they got here: https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/about/

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by chucksmash on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:19PM (#20842823)
They released a new version on the 27th of August[1]. It looks like it that was the first release since August 2018[2].

[1]: https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/68.0/releaseno...

[2]: https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/60.0/releaseno...

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by Caspy7 on Friday August 30, 2019 @08:16PM (#20843877)
I believe Thunderbird is now ESR. So it gets a major version then security updates for a year until the next one.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by copperx on Friday August 30, 2019 @08:29PM (#20843918)
What is the meaning of ESR? Because that sounds like life support to the layman.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by Caspy7 on Friday August 30, 2019 @09:02PM (#20844013)
Nah. I means Extended Support Release. After Firefox moved to the quicker release train, larger organizations were annoyed because they like stability in order to test stuff prior to release and make sure extensions and everything remains the same. So like Ubuntu (iirc) and some others, they created a Firefox ESR that gets security updates and only major updates ~once a year. I think Thunderbird actually just tracks with Firefox ESR.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by naniwaduni on Saturday August 31, 2019 @09:33PM (#20849990)
Do you want your mail reader constantly tracking the latest web tech?

The layman hates updates.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by jedberg on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:21PM (#20840556)
I solve this by using Firefox for all web browsing, and Chrome for gmail/gapps/anything by google.

It sucks that we have to do that, but I can't entirely blame them for making their own products work better on their own browser.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by josteink on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:18PM (#20841690)
> It sucks that we have to do that, but I can't entirely blame them for making their own products work better on their own browser.

You mean like MS for a long time did with MSIE?

Are we really back in the 90s, back to “This page works best in $one_specific_browser”?

This is not the future I was hoping for... On the flip side I can use Linux for almost anything, so i guess it’s not all bad.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by copperx on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:46PM (#20842540)
> Are we really back in the 90s, back to “This page works best in $one_specific_browser”?

Do webdevs really check for Chrome AND Firefox compatibility? The devs I know consider the job done as long as their site works with Chrome.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by josteink on Saturday August 31, 2019 @06:03AM (#20845481)
> Do webdevs really check for Chrome AND Firefox compatibility? The devs I know consider the job done as long as their site works with Chrome.

That would technically only make them Chrome-devs.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by hawkice on Friday August 30, 2019 @07:26PM (#20843632)
This... is more fraught than you might guess. Really fiddly details can make things look goofy if you don't check.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by pjmlp on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:46PM (#20848412)
Yes, because Google is a cool company, do no evil and such.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by hutzlibu on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:29PM (#20842390)
Well .. consider you are back in the 90s ... would you think in general, that this is "the future you was hoping for..."?
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by pjmlp on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:47PM (#20848419)
I was considering a future of native applications, connected via network protocols, with the browser being used for hypertext documents.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by smt88 on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:30PM (#20841208)
Rambox was a FOSS desktop app based on Electron to house all your Chrome apps in tabs.

Rambox went proprietary, but was forked into Hamsket. Might be easier than what you're using now.

https://github.com/TheGoddessInari/hamsket

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by kevin_thibedeau on Saturday August 31, 2019 @12:47AM (#20844658)
Just like you can't blame Microsoft for making ActiveX work best on Windows.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by yjftsjthsd-h on Saturday August 31, 2019 @09:13AM (#20846083)
If they did it while talking about open standards, then we would.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by sehugg on Friday August 30, 2019 @07:06PM (#20843538)
If it's any consolation, Gmail is dog-slow on my Samsung Chromebook 3. I switched to "Basic HTML" mode to make it bearable.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by Antrikshy on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:53PM (#20842611)
Speaking of good tech blogs, Netflix has an excellent one as well.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by aswanson on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:05PM (#20840428)
Do they have a doc detailing the full architectural design? I feel like I'm walking into a movie during the last 15 minutes.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by phreack on Saturday August 31, 2019 @02:26PM (#20847978)
I suggest checking out the Dolphin Emulator tech blogs as well, they're also consistently great in quality. https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by dgellow on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:12PM (#20842752)
Gmail is really crazy slow on Firefox, it’s such a deal breaker. I have regularly 30s to load the web application, it’s closer to 2-5s on Edge with the same setup (same ad blockers, etc).
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by stjohnswarts on Saturday August 31, 2019 @01:17AM (#20844726)
That has to be something wrong with your PC, it only takes a few seconds on even my 6 year old laptop on Firefox to load up from zero. Switching between folders is under a second as is opening an email. Firefox (latest Ubuntu)
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by lacampbell on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:30PM (#20842904)
I suspect this is because chrome supports WebSQL while Firefox does not.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by Technetium on Saturday August 31, 2019 @12:44PM (#20847367)
I suspect you have suspected incorrectly: https://developers.google.com/web/tools/lighthouse/audits/we...
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by lacampbell on Sunday September 01, 2019 @07:28PM (#20855645)
I realize Mozilla spearheaded an effort to remove webSQL from the standards. But chrome still uses it for fulltext search in gmail.

https://caniuse.com/#search=websql

https://nolanlawson.com/tag/websql/

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by a1369209993 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @08:36PM (#20849751)
I don't know about Gmail or Docs, but IME (also on linux) Youtube doesn't work in any browser[0]; I'd recommend http://youtube-dl.org/ and a real video player.

0: Even with remote code execution vulnerabilities enabled it shows a corporate spam clip instead of the video I'm trying to watch.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by The_rationalist on Friday August 30, 2019 @12:52PM (#20840289)
It is mostly par with Chrome now pretty much everywhere. Well browsing most website should not trigger lag in any browsers. But if we look at benchmarcks: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Firefox-...
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by pcwalton on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:43PM (#20841345)
Baseline interpreter is a good example of doing things that help most Web pages instead of benchmarks. One of the major things that ARES-6 and other benchmarks test is whether generators are JIT'd, for example. This doesn't really help Web pages, as it's a rarely used feature at present and even rarer in hot loops.

SpiderMonkey should get around to jitting generators, but I have a hard time blaming the team for focusing on real-world improvements first.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by The_rationalist on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:29PM (#20842393)
Pcwalton! While I agree that most synthetic benchmarcks are mostly not representative for the real world, there is a benchmarck suite for real world.

That is benchmarcking most used ALEXA websites. It's named TP 5 and TP6, mozilla use it internally (e. G to measure progress on stylo) Why is the real world (TP5/6) not public?? Phoronix has never used it, mozilla has never publicly published benchmarcks. I guess they favor chromium but I've never seen all results only the few mozillians posted on bugzilla. Let the world know, publish the results, even if it favor chromium. Anyway the mainstream will never be affected by that public information (most people have difficulties discerning a search engine from the concept of browser, let alone talking about benchmarcks)

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by fabrice_d on Friday August 30, 2019 @06:02PM (#20843132)
Did you look at the raptor dashboards? Let me help you: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/perf.html#/graphs?timerange=2...
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by The_rationalist on Saturday August 31, 2019 @01:26PM (#20847601)
Thank you! But without being able to compare it with chromium the results are meaningless to my brain.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by pcwalton on Saturday August 31, 2019 @01:44PM (#20847705)
You're free to port it to Chromium and run it yourself.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by yusukesuzuki on Friday August 30, 2019 @08:20PM (#20843897)
JSC's async-await is constructed on the generator's mechanism so that high performance generator is critical for all the web code using async functions. Not sure how SpiderMonkey is doing.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by littlestymaar on Friday August 30, 2019 @11:50PM (#20844522)
As the gp said, async/await is rarely used in hot loops, so it would probably never get jit-ed in a real webpage.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by yusukesuzuki on Saturday August 31, 2019 @08:16AM (#20845859)
I don’t agree given that async iterator can be iterated. But I’m ok if SpiderMonkey folks thinks so ;)
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by littlestymaar on Saturday August 31, 2019 @12:04PM (#20847111)
Async is mainly useful for asynchronous operations, like network requests if file system access. If used in this context, the loop cannot be "hot"…

Maybe there are people (ab)using the async stuf do do something else, but at least it's not really common.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by pcwalton on Saturday August 31, 2019 @01:23PM (#20847587)
I'm sure SM will get around to jitting that stuff at some point. All I'm saying is that Baseline Interpreter gives users bigger wins right now.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by the_duke on Friday August 30, 2019 @12:59PM (#20840362)
Amended to "feels on par".
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by bradknowles on Friday August 30, 2019 @04:35PM (#20842447)
Does anyone know if those same phoronix tests have been run against the new Firefox 70 Nightly or Developer Edition apps?

I'd be curious to see how 68 versus 69 versus 70 compare.

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by The_rationalist on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:20PM (#20842827)
I don't think it has yet been done. But as you probably noticed he tested with webrender too
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by Caspy7 on Friday August 30, 2019 @08:19PM (#20843891)
I mean, WebRender and spidermonkey are two separate things.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by _hardwaregeek on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:35PM (#20840686)
YouTube freezes so damn much. Very annoying. But probably good since I watch too much damn YouTube haha.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by user234683 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @12:43AM (#20844652)
> Gmail was still dog-slow the last time I tried

I use the HTML version instead to deal with this issue

Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by nullandvoid on Friday August 30, 2019 @02:17PM (#20841089)
My yt experience is both play @ same frames but firefox waits for a couple of seconds before I'm able to click play / when I skip to a part in the video - whereas chrome is instant in both cases which can becoming annoying
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by SomeOldThrow on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:00PM (#20841535)
Confluence is also pretty bad on firefox for whatever reason, so I'm pretty sure this is going to be a problem wherever chrome is the dominant browser in the dev culture there.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by fnord123 on Friday August 30, 2019 @03:17PM (#20841684)
All the Atlassian suite is somehow dog slow on Firefox on Mac. They're unusable.
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by tsbinz on Friday August 30, 2019 @01:37PM (#20840716)
I still need to either use chrome on android or explicitly navigate to the mobile page to get the title text on xkcd.com ... android firefox cuts the title text off with no apparent way to read the full one :/
Re:The Baseline Interpreter: A Faster JavaScript Interpreter... by Kelm on Friday August 30, 2019 @06:18PM (#20843222)
Just use the mobile version, works fine on android ff