News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by jammygit on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:36PM (#18470257)
All I want is to be able to give companies my money in exchange for not being spied on, manipulated, or locked into some walled garden. I can't for my OS - I have to use free gnu/Linux because everyone else treats me like crap.

Is my money not good enough for them? This is getting absurd

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by aikah on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:42PM (#18470332)
> All I want is to be able to give companies my money in exchange for not being spied on, manipulated, or locked into some walled garden. I can't for my OS - I have to use free gnu/Linux because everyone else treats me like crap.

AFAIK a license is paid with every new computer coming WITH Windows, so it isn't like people get Windows for free. I'm not sure it is even possible to transfer Windows's license from computer to computer anymore, so why is Microsoft doing this? just because they can. Imagine tomorrow some f\*cking ads pop up each time you open the start menu, or on the background of the desktop, or on the login screen, or in Visual Studio Code because why not? Absolutely outrageous. "Pay for the product and you're no longer the product they say". and while we are at it, why not display ads on websites hosted on Azure even when you paid for hosting?

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by IpV8 on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:49PM (#18470423)
What do you mean tomorrow? When I open my start menu today I see ads for a bunch of games and apps that I don't have installed. When I see my lock screen I see a pretty nature photo with a couple of clickbait phrases on it like "If you think that this place is peacefull, then..."
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by rzzzt on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:10PM (#18471144)
Suggested apps can be turned off from the right-click context menu on one of the items: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/faq/id-3250630/turn-suggested-...
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by thephyber on Friday November 16, 2018 @08:30PM (#18473351)
While what you say is true, the gp's point is that Windows is already pre-installing crapware. The Start Menu icons were still pre-installed, even if you can remove/uninstall them and even if the apps they represent weren't pre-installed.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by rzzzt on Saturday November 17, 2018 @03:41AM (#18474633)
I agree; my comment was not intended as a dismissal to the underlying issue.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by bpchaps on Friday November 16, 2018 @10:26PM (#18473751)
The first time I opend the start menu on Windows 10 after mostly using linux, it included news about Kim Kardashian. Since then, my thoughts have been sealed about Windows.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by nojvek on Saturday November 17, 2018 @12:44AM (#18474170)
I used to work for Microsoft on Edge Browser. Our tests ran on a clean version of Windows. Seeing the ads pop up in start menu, MSN homepage on Edge, little squares ads on bing page made me a bit miserable, day by day.

The default experience was garbage thrown in your face.

The leadership had to drive revenue growth and msn/ads were a money maker. That’s how they get promoted and we had to play their game.

Seeing that ladder chasing culture made me quit.

Very few companies actually legit give a shit about their users and the user experience. It’s so easy to blindly do things that annoy users but make a quick buck.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by signal11 on Sunday November 18, 2018 @07:50AM (#18480126)
OOBE on Windows 10 has gone to the dogs. Live Tiles on the default Windows 10 Start Menu — especially if you buy an OEM laptop — look gaudy and distract you from the task at hand. I just wish Microsoft realised that this is making Apple’s systems more attractive.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by danbolt on Saturday November 17, 2018 @12:39AM (#18474155)
Same thing! After using Linux abroad I started a new job using a Windowns 10 workstation and it showed me a picture of the President of the United States. It took a while to get the menu cleaned up too.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by signal11 on Sunday November 18, 2018 @07:52AM (#18480139)
I just paid $5 for Start10. No more default Win10 Start menu, ever. Best $5 I ever spent. There are free options too, like Classic Shell.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by navaati on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:54PM (#18471005)
What bugs me to no end is that I really like the photos, and the text ads in it ruin it !
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by jboles on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:45PM (#18471813)
Bing Desktop is still around -- you can get daily pretty nature pics, without the overlaid ads. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=358...
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by matty22 on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:16PM (#18470659)
That lock screen really chaps my jimmies. Either tell me what you want to tell me or shove off.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by russdpale on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:26PM (#18470736)
I am sure this is going to happen.

For anyone curious about vscode, there is a fork called "VSCodium" which is vscode without any telemetry shit in it.

https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by LeoPanthera on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:58PM (#18470495)
I guess you're assigning "walled garden" to macOS, but macOS is still UNIX underneath, and you can run any open software you want on it.

I still think it's an excellent option for the privacy conscious.

There are plenty of free software based operating systems that will take your money. Red Hat seems like the most obvious one.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by inetknght on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:36PM (#18470827)
I resurrected my late 2012 Mac Mini recently and "upgraded" it to Mojave.

I can't even SSH into the box. The SSH daemon accepts connections, firewall is off, and login sharing is enabled. But the daemon refuses my key, my password. I can't even figure out how to get it to display the reasons for the denied access.

At least on Linux I can turn off the daemon, turn on logging, turn the daemon back on, and get somewhere with denied access.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by Eric_WVGG on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:50PM (#18470958)
I could be mistaken but I think you're crashing into Apple tightening up the security (in the good "require better encryption" way, not the bad "walled garden" way).

https://www.reddit.com/r/macsysadmin/comments/9wt05m/cannot_...

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by inetknght on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:54PM (#18470995)
Aha! I had googled around a bunch but nothing helpful came about. You and @neilalexander are saying basically the same thing (I think). Thanks for the link! I'll check it out this evening :)
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by neilalexander on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:47PM (#18470932)
SSH is no different on macOS to Linux. Go and look in the usual places: /etc/ssh/sshd_config and /var/log. If you really are still stuck, disable Remote Login from the Sharing panel and start sshd yourself in a Terminal in verbose mode.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by PeterMikhailov on Friday November 16, 2018 @09:02PM (#18473467)
I don't think that's true. You have to screw around with launchctl. The original poster probably has to add the ability for a specific user to ssh to the box in "remote access"
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by neilalexander on Sunday November 18, 2018 @06:50AM (#18479932)
The "Remote Login" checkbox in System Preferences actually does something equivalent to the `systemsetup` command. If you uncheck it, the daemon stops running, and you can then make changes or run it yourself.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by inetknght on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:49PM (#18470950)
This is what I'll do when I get home
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by neilalexander on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:01PM (#18471069)
You might find that running sshd in a Terminal is probably the best way to get a sense of what's really going on if the logging level isn't high enough by default - things like cipher disagreements would probably be visible on the client, whereas authentication errors are more likely to be logged on the target side. Do come back with how you get on!
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by inetknght on Saturday November 17, 2018 @09:23PM (#18478549)
So it turns out that I had deleted my shell, which also explains why iTerm and Terminal would instantly die.

Fixed it with `chsh` and now all that good stuff works \o/

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by neilalexander on Sunday November 18, 2018 @06:49AM (#18479929)
Glad to hear it!
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by thephyber on Friday November 16, 2018 @08:45PM (#18473407)
I think consumers don't give Apple enough credit for securing their OS because the other consumer-grade OS we compare it to was such a malware-magnet for decades that we've set our expectations low.

Several of the latest OSX releases have progressively locked down some executables/directories to Ring -1 (requires more than just root/sudo privs). I see it as Apple locking down the OS against potential malware, as I've always been able to work around their changes with some Stack-Overflow-fu.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by thrill on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:02PM (#18471081)
SSHd is now very picky about permissions of the .ssh directory and underlying files and may quietly fail if they're not set properly.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by marmaduke on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:19PM (#18472055)
very picky if you’re on a single user system. If you’re on a shared system, where admin has set default home permissions open, it makes complete sense to require .ssh to be 700.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by inetknght on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:37PM (#18471366)
Yup :) I learned this early on as a Linux user. It was the first thing I checked.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by danceparty on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:46PM (#18470918)
use ssh -vvv when you connect. Several types of ciphers were deprecated for security reasons over the past few releases, you can reenable them in /etc/ssh_config or /etc/sshd_config
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by inetknght on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:49PM (#18470956)
I already used `ssh -v` and it didn't provide a whole lot of useful information.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by yellowapple on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:58PM (#18471513)
If you add more v's, you get more info :)
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by Nexxxeh on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:10PM (#18470598)
The noise-dive Apple's software has taken, it might fall under the "treats like crap".
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by dopamean on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:27PM (#18470744)
It's odd to me that so many people seem to dislike this comment. My experience with MacOS has gotten more and more negative with each update. I upgraded to Mojave a few weeks ago (because the OS would not stop nagging me to) and I've had nothing but problems since.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by smallbigfish on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:32PM (#18470797)
I've had nothing but problems using Windows, Linux and iOS. But that's not very solid in a thread with people talking about ads and privacy violations.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by ohithereyou on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:32PM (#18471737)
I've not seen a single nag to upgrade to Mojave. I'm still on Sierra (and will likely move to High Sierra this weekend - I like to stay a major version behind for Mac software for stability's sake on my Mac Mini).
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by joshstrange on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:36PM (#18472170)
I have gotten it 2-3 times in High Sierra, I normally operate on a 3-6mo delay on upgrades so that everyone else can deal with what breaks first.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by dpark on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:45PM (#18471817)
Maybe the upgrade nag was added in High Sierra.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by cmroanirgo on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:25PM (#18472453)
Nope. I'm running High Sierra, and it's all tumbleweeds about Mojave
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by rhlsthrm on Friday November 16, 2018 @08:25PM (#18473329)
Mojave is running great for me, what problems have you been experiencing?
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by russdpale on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:18PM (#18470675)
It seems quite a few people have been turned off by the recent mac book pro fiasco as well.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by stephenr on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:14PM (#18471179)
Fiasco?
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by JadeNB on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:35PM (#18471750)
> Fiasco?

I don't know about the parent; but, as an MBP owner for almost 15 years, for me "fiasco" means "best-in-class keyboard and trackpad have become second- to third-rate." (Most complaints are focussed on the keyboard, and the Touch Bar's insistence on interfering with touch typing muscle memory; but I've found the trackpad has its own weird set of problems, at least on my machine.)

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by tracker1 on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:30PM (#18472478)
I think my old 2010 mbp (stolen in 2013) was probably my single favorite touchpad and keyboard for any laptop before or since. My current (late 2014) is okay, just not quite as good, and I don't like the newer ones at all... I use a physical keyboard at my desk and reducing the travel more and more just irritates me and slows me down.

May take a look at the Huawei Matebook X Pro, or it's successor next year. (Worries about chinese spying aside).

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by setquk on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:22PM (#18471670)
Keyboard
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by stephenr on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:50PM (#18472252)
We clearly have different definitions for the word fiasco.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by coldtea on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:26PM (#18470737)
What "nose dive"? It has never been better.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by jammygit on Friday November 16, 2018 @06:09PM (#18472708)
Good points.

With macos, you need to buy the hardware, and the hardware locks you out of using Linux lately. You also have to spend like crazy on pre-upgrades since everything is soldered in. Then they fight tooth and nail to keep 3rd party repair from being viable, so the apple store says you need a fully new machine and yet the guy down the street can fix it for $700 (would be less but everything is soldered). The machines and os are great, but the other stuff is a buzz kill.

With red hat, I'm not sure its up to date enough for desktop use - dedoimedo likes to talk up his centos install but he doesn't actually recommend it. I'm going to look at red hat one day for production.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by type0 on Friday November 16, 2018 @07:18PM (#18473036)
For desktop I would say SUSE is the way to go. You can get different levels of support. Much more worth it than Windows license - which is the price you pay to get Microsoft stickers on your machine (and to have their spyware on). Calling MS support was the worst experience ever for me. You shouldn't really use RHEL as a desktop OS (they even dropped KDE recently). On servers if you have the money RHEL is the best you can get.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by jammygit on Friday November 16, 2018 @07:41PM (#18473143)
I've never looked into SUSE. Could you elaborate on what they offer? All I know about them is that they are one of the really old enterprise distros and got purchased recently.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by eutropia on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:52PM (#18470452)
I had to spend several days manually ripping out huge chunks of Win10 to get something resembling the usability of XP. That included removing all of the updating utilities, hosts-file blocking of microsoft servers, removal of most of the preinstalled apps, as well as disabling and deleting all of the scheduled tasks which try to re-install and re-enable those settings.

All this trouble so I can play modern PC games... Next system upgrade cycle I think I'll be moving to linux.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by closetohome on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:01PM (#18470519)
1998: I'd never connect a Windows box directly to the Internet. Hackers might break my computer.

2018: I'd never connect a Windows box directly to the Internet. Microsoft might break my computer.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by Spivak on Friday November 16, 2018 @07:02PM (#18472964)
Oh man I get just a glimpse of what the Windows team has to deal with when applying patches it's absolutely insane. Never in my life have I had to worry that yum update was going to trash my system.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by chii on Friday November 16, 2018 @07:23PM (#18473048)
But when it does, it rm -rf /
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by antisthenes on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:54PM (#18471001)
Microsoft figured out it's easier to employ all the hackers rather than fight them.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by nepeckman on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:28PM (#18470760)
Steam support for linux is really going places. I mostly play indie games and older games (so nothing too resource intensive) and Steam's custom wine distribution has been handling them really well. I think I might wipe my windows partition in the next month or so.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by Karunamon on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:17PM (#18471199)
I keep hoping I'll run into someone that's played around with that. If you're at the point where you can use their software and expect a random game to work more often than not, that's a massive leap forward for Linux on the desktop!
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by milesvp on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:10PM (#18471609)
I've been playing doom 2016 using steam's wine offering, proton I think it's called. There currently aren't a lot of games the steam client beta supports, but it at least was painless to install and run. Hopefully they'll continue to support wine going forward, and start working with publishers to get more big budget games working.

Blizzard has officially stated they won't boot you (permanently, apparently there are occasional false positives) for using other wine offerings. I've been tempted to try to install Overwatch using Lutris as well (productivity be damned!).

I'm lucky in that I tend to prefer indie games, which are more likely to support steamos, but I'm certainly feeling optimistic about gaming on linux. I've found that I need to boot into my win7 partition less and less in the last year for games reasons.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by justinclift on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:27PM (#18472117)
Skyrim is working well too. Crysis (first in the series) doesn't load though. :(
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by twalla on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:48PM (#18471440)
i recommend https://boxstarter.org/ and something like https://github.com/W4RH4WK/Debloat-Windows-10 for dealing with installing win10

source: configured windows10 manually once, decided i'd like to never experience that particular circle of hell again

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by ohithereyou on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:34PM (#18471747)
I hadn't heard of Boxstarter before. Thank you for introducing me to this.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by tonyedgecombe on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:25PM (#18471274)
hosts-file blocking of microsoft servers

I don't think that works, I'm pretty sure the networking stack bypasses the hosts file for Microsoft sites because it's a potential vulnerability.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by eutropia on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:14PM (#18472020)
So that's why I had so many extra things to firewall in glasswire!
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by joombaga on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:58PM (#18471514)
Why do you believe that?
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by autoexec on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:49PM (#18471843)
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by ams6110 on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:36PM (#18471755)
Malware could overwrite the hosts file
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by tracker1 on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:34PM (#18472505)
Other than using classic shell, I pretty much like the W10 toolbar. The harder learning curve is I still have many years of searching for X, when the UX is now in Y for a given setting. It's arguably in a better place now, just hard to re-learn.

As to linux gaming, a lot of effort has been made with Steam, another walled garden, but a nicer one. I just wish some of the UI/UX in linux would solidify a bit. I've been running elementary with some tweaks on my spare, but still not enough for my main desktop.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by ZeikJT on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @09:10PM (#18557505)
Valve did put Proton (their wine layer) on GitHub. Some stuff is making it outside the walls :)
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by marmaduke on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:23PM (#18472090)
There’s a reddit sub dedicated to powershell scripts which automate this. The name escapes me but the hope does not
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by jstankewicz on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:35PM (#18472508)
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by binomialxenon on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:49PM (#18470955)
If you're going to keep a Windows box around at all, it sounds like LTSB would probably work better than vanilla W10.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by yellowapple on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:01PM (#18471535)
The bad news is that LTSB is only available for enterprise customers.

The good news is that if Microsoft refuses to let me buy it as an individual, then I have no moral/ethical qualms with not buying it per se.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by beamatronic on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:42PM (#18471404)
Is it any better if you get the Enterprise version?
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by tjalfi on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:02PM (#18471538)
My employer uses Windows Enterprise and it also had Candy Crush and other crapware preinstalled. IIRC one of my coworkers wrote a script to remove the bundled applications.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by vt240 on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:32PM (#18472141)
Employer was supposed to be using Windows deployment tools to create custom enterprise images... But I'm stuck in the same boat. The maintenance overhead is too much for a small business. I am very upset that the default enterprise image is full of crap-ware, and the only alternative was LTSB with no support for Edge or Windows Store.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by ohithereyou on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:36PM (#18471754)
How are these machines HIPAA compliant when your OS vendor can push random software to them?
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by Spivak on Friday November 16, 2018 @07:11PM (#18473001)
Vendors aren't considered threats under HIPPA which, tbf, is pretty rational because if you don't trust the entity that wrote the software or made your hardware you've got much bigger problems.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by acct1771 on Friday November 16, 2018 @08:44PM (#18473405)
So what you're saying is we've got much bigger problems.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by ohithereyou on Saturday November 17, 2018 @12:41PM (#18476480)
Microsoft's behavior here and Canonical's behavior shipping search tied into Amazon tracking show that this is not a pretty rational stance.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by namibj on Friday November 16, 2018 @10:00PM (#18473668)
I trust the system I bought to not be evil as far as anything remotely everyday goes. I don't teudt their softwsre/updates.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by acct1771 on Friday November 16, 2018 @08:44PM (#18473402)
HIPAA
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by swebs on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:45PM (#18470371)
Why not give your money to the Free Software Foundation or your distro's donation page to encourage software that respects your freedoms?

https://my.fsf.org/donate

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by crankylinuxuser on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:14PM (#18470639)
I already do that.

I've been a member for a while now. And we even ran a domaition drive for a local food nonprofit, and our COO would match to a nonprofit org we said. More to the FSF.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by jammygit on Friday November 16, 2018 @07:31PM (#18473086)
I do.

Thanks for sharing the link :)

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by Pmop on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:32PM (#18470804)
Funny thing is that the only way you can achieve this is by installing free, open source operating system.

>Is my money not good enough for them? This is getting absurd

Yeah, this is surreal.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by dpau on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:17PM (#18470669)
How long until Microsoft starts inserting ads into our Github repos?
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by shados on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:24PM (#18471272)
I'd expect more like a deep LinkedIn integration to facilitate recruiters...as much as the thought makes me cringe.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by rleigh on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:52PM (#18471477)
To be honest, if a tool could run a scan over all my github contributions, and then use that to find a really well matching job, that might be potentially very interesting. Finding a job which is a good match for your skills and interests is hard. If most of your contributions are public then making use of them would be potentially beneficial so long as it wasn't super creepy.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by ska on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:11PM (#18471998)
How long do you think such a mechanism would exist before it became overrun by (semi-) automated attempts to game it?
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by tomjen3 on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:35PM (#18472507)
The problem with that is the same as every other time anybody is trying to exchange something for something else: sturgeons law. The greatest developers are not on the market and the companies worth working for don't need recruiters.

Ads can be great in a (very) few areas: nobody is going to talk about a new great tampon or condom. Heck most people haven't even heard about the menstural cup, but other than things humans feel really embarrassed talking about, exceptional products don't need ads, and neither do exceptional programmers or companies.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by shados on Friday November 16, 2018 @08:00PM (#18473230)
> The greatest developers are not on the market and the companies worth working for don't need recruiters.

Not sure about that part...at this point most companies that are growing at a significant rate use recruiters. They may be internal recruiters (but even then they often use a minimal amount of external recruiters too). All of the companies we all know (Facebook, Google, Microsoft, whatever) use recruiters, most VC startups do, and a portion of small to medium size companies also do.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by rleigh on Saturday November 17, 2018 @04:06AM (#18474699)
The other thing here is, of course, that these "companies we all know" are not the be all and end all for software development. There are hundreds of thousands of smaller companies the world over doing development in every field you could imagine. I know nothing about them, but some of them are very likely to be doing things I would find fascinating. There's very little to connect me with them except by chance. Even if I'm aware of the main companies in the specific field I work in, there are still far more that I'm unaware of. That's a lot of missed opportunities.

The current process is inefficient and suboptimal for all concerned. Recruiters have trouble identifying good candidates. And on the other side we have trouble identifying good companies/projects. On both sides we dumb down the skills provided/needed to bullet points of technologies and tools, often completely ignoring the actual problem domains. While I don't think the suggestion here about gleaning insights from git repositories is a solution by any means, it might make a small improvement by providing some deeper insight into real demonstrated skills and experience. As someone else mentioned, of course this could lead to gaming the system, but I suspect most fraudulent stuff could be filtered out--there would be clear differences between real projects contributed to over the course of years and "resumé fodder".

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by megous on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:09PM (#18471593)
Combine github data with linkedin data to get connection of developers to companies, and use that? Not that I'm suggesting them to do it... :)
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by rleigh on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:31PM (#18471730)
The main challenge would be the information asymmetry between both sides (as is already the case). It's one thing for the recruiter to be able to scan all your contributions. Would you as a potential recruit be able to do the same, and see what skills and techniques were /actually/ in use by the company. A tool which could generate an anonymised summary for both parties and compare them for mutual compatibility might be very nice.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by shados on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:27PM (#18472113)
I can picture this...

Anonymous description of a company/profile for the recruiter Anonymous profile of candidates looking for a job...

Swipe left...or swipe right...if both swipe connect them...

F. Why did I post this. Its such a good idea I could make money out of it.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by jononor on Sunday November 18, 2018 @06:39AM (#18479898)
Sounds like an opportunity for a third party 'market maker'
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by marmaduke on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:26PM (#18472104)
But some of the recent changes in the GitHub profile like code contrib vs commit would already be enough to match against profiles for hire.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by robin_reala on Saturday November 17, 2018 @02:55PM (#18477055)
That’s not a problem if you don‘t have a LinkedIn account. I recommend it.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by dopamean on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:27PM (#18470750)
"I see you're building an app with a shopping cart. Why not just sell your wares on Shopify!"
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by ip26 on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:06PM (#18470560)
You are probably willing to pay more than you are worth in ad revenue. But you, and I, are in the minority.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by ohithereyou on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:39PM (#18471778)
Not only willing, but capable. How many people could pay ongoing for their OS like they do for their car?
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by contravariant on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:41PM (#18470314)
It seems like they can get people to sell their privacy and autonomy cheaply if they can convince them it's the normal thing to do. Having an option that doesn't do any of those things would undermine the illusion.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by legulere on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:52PM (#18470454)
The Elementary linux desktop [1] tries to get its users to pay.

[1]: https://elementary.io

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by zanny on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:32PM (#18470800)
So does Canonical when you download Ubuntu.

That being said, you really want money to go to developers making the software. Not to discredit the work of packagers and integrators (mostly at Debian) but actually writing the code at the end of the day is the deal breaker.

For that you can donate to Gnome, KDE, specific projects like Krita, or Software in the Public Interest that funds a bunch of the non-umbrella projects like LibreOffice and Postgres.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by russdpale on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:27PM (#18470748)
Elementary is a great project. I am about to build a box for a single mother with two kids and I am thinking about using elementary for it because of its ease of use and similarity to mac.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by pickdenis on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:56PM (#18471017)
What's wrong with using GNU/Linux?

Also, they (Apple, MS) don't want your money. They want your freedom, which is virtually priceless. I'm sure a fat monthly fee will suffice, but yeesh.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by tomjen3 on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:28PM (#18472468)
No. Because if you have money to spend, then your ad spots are worth more than the average. And if you are so rich you can afford to pay not to see ads, those spots goes up even more. If you are so rich you can afford to pay this increased rate, those goes up even more.

There used to be a time where ads on the internet were, if not outright illegal, then at least considered like spam is today. I am not sure we wouldn't be better of if we didn't go back to to those classifications.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by giobox on Sunday November 18, 2018 @01:58PM (#18481894)
I’m honestly not sure that time ever really existed. Ads were as much a part of print before the web as they are part of the web today.

You could maybe make this argument about popups before browser vendors killed that behaviour off, but ad banners where still a thing even with those.

The idea that they were ever even close to “outright illegal” is almost certainly a stretch in the vast majority of legal systems.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by Crontab on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:46PM (#18472226)
I used to think that being open-source was enough to avoid being spied on but it is not. Ubuntu showed this with the Amazon search issue [1] and is apparently collecting telemetry with 18.04 LTS [2]. My understanding is that Brew also gatherings telemetry by default.

Enabling telemetry collection as the default setting needs to end - even if it is well intentioned.

[1] https://www.networkworld.com/article/2226648/opensource-subn...

[2] https://www.techradar.com/news/the-controversial-ubuntu-1804...

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by jammygit on Friday November 16, 2018 @07:38PM (#18473124)
Canonical doesn't seem as concerned with privacy as it could be, but at least the collection is opt-in at install time instead of being sneaky (let me know if I'm mistaken).

I wish the fsf distros could get more contributors. I understand why corporate contributions aren't aimed in that direction, but I wonder why Trisquel doesn't have more hobbyists pitching in.

edited to clear up opening sentence

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by hsivonen on Saturday November 17, 2018 @04:01AM (#18474685)
18.04 prompts you very clearly and the first report they let you see looks innocent. Is there something concretely wrong with 18.94 telemetry beyond objecting to even optional telemetry on principle?

(I agree that the Amazon search thing was bad.)

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by Crontab on Saturday November 17, 2018 @08:53AM (#18475519)
I've avoided Ubuntu since the Amazon-search issue, so I haven't tested 18.04 personally, but the second article I linked to says:

"This data collection is turned on by default"

I took this to mean that telemetry was being collected and, if someone desired, could be turned off after the fact. I have a problem with telemetry being opt-out (it should always be opt-in). If Ubuntu is prompting to allow or disallow the collection of data, then that is good news, as people are being asked for their informed consent.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by hakfoo on Saturday November 17, 2018 @12:39PM (#18476469)
I suspect the appeal of an ad model is that it's perpetual recurring revenue.

It's the same direction they go when they desperately push subscription licenses (see: Office 365) They want a business model less dependent on people replacing their PCs every three years.

I don't doubt they see a rapidly approaching future of management saying "these computers are more than adequate for office work and web browsing, so we won't replace them until they physically fail in 5+ years." It's an easier and easier argument to make, especially when we're running out of easy, cheap across-the-board performance boosts. (Office and Chrome don't run that much better on a new 32-core Threadripper than on a second-generation i5)

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by sephware on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:38PM (#18471371)
I know you're not necessarily looking for specific advice to this one problem, and I agree and would rather pay for software than be the product, but since email is the topic, have you looked into FastMail? You pay for it, there's no ads, and they don't sell your info.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by chapium on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:56PM (#18471018)
You could always just use thunderbird and make a donation.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by boznz on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:32PM (#18471330)
The last update changed the association of web email links back to microsoft mail, still cant figure out a way to change it back.. Why cant microsoft concentrate on security updates and leave the rest of my system the fuck alone.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by mav3rick on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:41PM (#18470320)
The money you would likely pay would be less than what they can make by selling you ads (as a whole). If you were willing to pay > $1000 for software and services there was no reason for companies to maintain an Ad business.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by aikah on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:57PM (#18470485)
> The money you would likely pay would be less than what they can make by selling you ads (as a whole). If you were willing to pay > $1000 for software and services there was no reason for companies to maintain an Ad business.

So people used the same argument with games and loot boxes. But even if videogames cost $500 a copy, there is so much money to be made with loot boxes that they would still exist in these games at that price.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by reaperducer on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:18PM (#18470676)
If you were willing to pay > $1000 for software and services there was no reason for companies to maintain an Ad business.

I don't think this is true, but if it is, please provide a link to prove the assertion.

I doubt that companies are selling software at a loss with the intent to make it up in ad revenue. They're selling the software at a profit, and then getting ad revenue for additional profit.

All this just to "maximize revenue potential" for a bunch of faceless investment funds.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by autoexec on Friday November 16, 2018 @03:54PM (#18471884)
> . If you were willing to pay > $1000 for software and services there was no reason for companies to maintain an Ad business.

Let's be honest though, if a company can make money doing something they most likely will do it. It wouldn't matter if you paid $100,000 a month to use windows, if they could make an extra $1000 selling your personal information and pushing ads at you they will.

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by ovao on Friday November 16, 2018 @04:27PM (#18472114)
If that were truly the case, wouldn’t Apple and Canonical be doing exactly that?
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by dsego on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:16PM (#18472394)
Except Canonical was doing exactly that with amazon ads in the launcher.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by autoexec on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:22PM (#18472437)
Ubuntu did infest their OS with ads (via amazon). Last I checked they still did but backlash caused them to disable it by default. I can't speak to apple's data collection and ad practices but I'm guessing they've been doing some form of both.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by yebyen on Friday November 16, 2018 @12:46PM (#18470388)
Is that really true? I feel like they would need _everyone_ to be willing to pay that much, and on a recurring basis somehow to make support sustainable.

The value of marketing to Windows users is in the network effect. If one Windows user can pay $1000 to avoid advertising and change nothing else, the other users will probably hear about this and take notice. But if every Windows user is subjected to ads, I very much doubt that Microsoft is making $1000 in advertising revenue from just one person.

Microsoft would never convert 100% of users to "ad-free" paid subscriptions, at any price. But they can make money directly from advertising to 100% of their users, and there is no "loss" except from attrition (which I would guess is still probably quite a bit smaller than their numbers for overall user-base growth.)

Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by tracker1 on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:59PM (#18472644)
Yeah... like the car dealers that just sold you a $50K car don't also try to get you to use them for your oil changes.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by anoncake on Friday November 16, 2018 @02:01PM (#18471070)
There is plenty of reason to advertise to someone willing and able to spend >$1000 on software.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by lowercased on Saturday November 17, 2018 @02:15AM (#18474418)
maybe they could compare my purchase history from various services along with the ads they've served, and at some point realize that I've never bought anything from an ad, nor ever bought anything, ever, that's been promoted through these ads, then finally stop showing them to me. It would be better experience for me, and also make their clickrate ratios go up for their advertisers.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by bromuro on Friday November 16, 2018 @05:23PM (#18472440)
Absurd yet Microsoft at its finest.
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by Svoka on Friday November 16, 2018 @06:37PM (#18472859)
So... Why not use macOS?
Re:Microsoft Is Putting Ads on the Mail App in Windows 10 by zanny on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:34PM (#18470811)
I think its more that if the owners of software respected you at all they would not be trying to sell it you in a proprietary form to begin with. It should be no surprise that those trying to exploit and abuse copyright in an era when it makes no sense don't respect you just because you participated in the scam.