Apple has ditched so many cool things in the MacBook line.

1) MagSafe. I know they really want to go all in on USB-C, but the original MagSafe connector was awesome. Even the weaker 2.0 version was nice. There were two instances where that connector saved my laptop.

2) The laser-drilled power indicator. That was so cool. It looked like the light magically appeared through the aluminum. Now there's no indication whatsoever if your laptop is on or asleep or off.

3) The 2007-2011 keyboards. The ones with the real travel. Even the 2012 version with slightly reduced travel was okay. But my 2007 MacBook had the best laptop keyboard I'd ever used.

4) HDMI and SD Card slot. These are the kinds of things that you happen to need when you least expect it. When you're least likely to have that dongle with you. They're also thin ports that will fit nicely without bulking up the chassis.

5) Of course, function keys and an ESC key.

I'm going to keep my 2012 MBP going as long as I can. But when it dies or is no longer supported, I'm pretty sure ThinkPad is where I'm headed.

While I also love MagSafe and its features, wouldn't having a more standard port is much better?

iPhones are constantly bashed by a group of users because of not having USB-C connectors. Having four USB-C ports with identical capabilities on a MacBook pro is a more pragmatic and flexible solution to have, when compared to MagSafe.

On the power level and power button issue, Apple changes its features to shape customer behavior and expectation from its devices. Apple removed battery meter from Macs since it's standby is too long (30 days) and robust (auto-hibernation), so you're unlikely to run out of juice.

They also believe in the stability of MacOS such that it's not important whether the machine is off or in standby. Because it boots in ~10 seconds and wakes up in ~2. They want to remove these distinctions from their computers and try to lower your cognitive load. Actually this is one of the finest features of the Macs IMHO. They don't make you think to use it.

Open the lid, and if the screen doesn't come on, press the power button, done.

>>While I also love MagSafe and its features, wouldn't having a more standard port is much better?

I don't understand why it can't have both. Have a magsafe port, ship with a magsafe charger. But if you happen to connect a USB-C charger to one of the USB-C ports, charge through that too. No issue. Playstation portable was like this - you could charge it through proprietary playstation charger, or if you connected a mini-usb cable it would charge through it. No issue.

Surface Book does that. It can be charged via either a USB-C port or a Surface Connect port (which also happens to be similar to MagSafe i.e. magnetically attached).

Ah but then you'd have TWO different kinds of ports on your laptop. We should be thankful already that Johnny Ive let us keep the headphone jack on the 2017 MBP, although I don't expect it to last much.

Given how things are trending, I predict the MBP of the future will have no ports, no keyboard, and the screen will be just a static image of the apple logo, although at 4 times retina resolution.

you mean an ipad? i guess that's the joke.

It's also possible and a sound idea, however I think that idea is filtered by Johnny Ive's "remove everything which is not strictly necessary" rule, and his love for clean designs and symmetry (which is an evolution of Sony design philosophy BTW).

Well Johnny has gone way too far. My needs include more than the bare minimum. I get wanting to standardize in USB-C. Maybe move the magnet up a bit on the cable?

What I don’t appreciate is the over-emphasis on useless symmetry or minimalism. Good design is more than looks and polish. Functionality is the reason I buy the thing. Design is why I choose the brand. If the functionality isn’t there, I don’t care how pretty it is.

IMHO, Macs are much more functional than they look, but they need a different way of thinking and some adjustment. Apple likes to move in front of the curve in terms of connectivity and its utilization. It's their way of design, and they like to show it as a part of the brand.

However, I'm not implying that everyone should be comfortable with the operation principles of new MacBooks or their devices in general. I love the challenge and the different perspectives they bring, but it's sometimes limiting and slowing down until finding the best way to utilize them.

This is why we have different brands and designs, because one design indeed doesn't fit all.

To continue my Rams quotes from above: "[Good design] makes a product understandable". If having to find out how to best use your tool is a challenge (especially when the new iteration seems to be such an apparent step backwards compared to the old), maybe it simply isn't good design.

You're right.

I also like Rams and aware some of his work. Also I see traces of his work through Mac/iOS calculators (which nods to Braun's ones), and apple's software (low level) design philosophy.

That adjustment, at least in my case, doesn't come from the tool itself. I'm also a heavy Linux desktop user, so making two systems work nice (for my standards) took some time when I introduced Macs into my workflow ~10 years ago. Currently I have no friction. I think if I was solely a Mac user, that initial friction should be non-existent.

OTOH, the newest Mac I have is a Mid-2014 MBP. I don't know how the new ones compare.

Honestly, I'm way too flexible and adaptable when it comes to new designs and paradigms. I think I don't have the complaint circuitry in my brain. I like to just accept and adapt. I see it as a way to counteract the tendency of being fixed on things I like, but are outdated. I also love to bring good ideas and features from new things to the old, to refine my old habits and increase productivity.

But, as I always say, that's just me.

>> If having to find out how to best use your tool is a challenge (especially when the new iteration seems to be such an apparent step backwards compared to the old), maybe it simply isn't good design.

Cough, cough......USB-C. Looking at the plug there is no way to tell whether the cable will support fast charging, video, or even 3.0 or just 2.0 USB. All of those cables share the same socket but provide different functions.

Well, this is where Apple gets it right - every USB-C socket supports everything. (Ok, mostly. Looking at you, MacBook 12!)

Socket - yes. But you can walk into an official Apple store, buy a brand new MacBook Pro + an "apple approved" LG USB-C display, and guess what - the USB-C cable that is bundled with your MacBook Pro cannot be used with the display that you just bought. What's worse, MacOS won't tell you why it doesn't work - it just won't. It's the worst and most user-hostile design in computers I have seen in years.

Ah, of course, I misread - the cables. No disagreement from me here. :)

Well, Ive's a huge (self-proclaimed) Rams/Bauhaus fan, that's where the philosophy primarily stems from. It just seems that he seems to emphasize Rule 2 ("[good design] makes a product useful") less and less.

And one could argue they're not following that rule; I don't think the touch bar is particularly attractive, and on the iphone it has (had?) a bulge for the camera and an indentation in the screen, both of which aren't "good design" IMO. They're compromises to support certain features (face ID / front facing camera array AND a big screen, good camera)

I doubt Ive is driving these design regressions. (Unless he’s always been a rubbish designer from day one.) It seems the khakis are running the show at Apple since Jobs passed.

Symmetry, huh?

Please explain the protruding camera from the back of the phones.

Magnetic usb-c cables do exist for those who are unaware. My only problem with them is many of them only support power or usb 2.

I've had to replace my Macbook Pro USB-C charger twice in a year, and I'm fairly certain my magnetic USB-C adapter are to blame. The first problem appeared some time after I got the adapter, but at some point I just stopped using it, because the magnet are too weak, and because it have to be oriented a certain way. A few weeks ago I used it again, forget the laptop in the charger overnight, and it was dead the next morning.

I think the adapter was from the brand Baseus.

Seems you are not the only one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Looyat-Baseus-Magnetic-Cable-Macboo...

Re the now removed power light, it’s a real pain point for me as I now cannot trust my laptop is truly asleep when I close the lid. Previously I’d just wait for the light to start “breathing” and I know it’s sleeping.

I’ve been caught out several times now on the new units where I closed the lid and came back hours later only to find the laptop still on and very warm.

Mostly seems down to VMs or backups running that don’t seem to want to suspend. So now I always suspend my VMs and stop backups. Which slows down my workflow greatly since it takes a minute each to suspend and resume the VM itself. I also find myself holding the laptop undercarriage right up against my ear listening for the whirring of the fans and if they stop. I look like a right idiot doing it, but there’s no other way to tell.

I will say I understand the benefits of standardization, but the MagSafe has saved me so many times. I wish all companies would have adopted that. I have kids and a dog, and many times my power outlets are not in the most convenient of places meaning I need to connect to them using an extension cord, etc. That thing has been pulled out of my machine more times than I can count, and I fear even thinking about how many times my laptop would have been pulled on the floor, port broken etc. without it. It is absolutely one of my favorite features.

nope. i've had my usb-c mbp for 1.5 years and the usb ports are already wearing out. the power cable slips out of 2 of the ports just from gravity.

my last magsafe macbook air lasted 5 years as a daily driver. i doubt this piece of shit will last another year. i've already had to send it in once for a logic board replacement once.

the keyboard on this one is starting to go as of this week (one key not registering), so i think i'm gonna have to send it in again.

not to mention the pain in the ass of carrying dongles everywhere

I honestly consider buying a 2015 mbp and selling my newer one at least once a month. That was the last good laptop apple made.

> iPhones are constantly bashed by a group of users because of not having USB-C connectors. [...]

I found that most (if not all) people who rave about a USB-C-only future do not actually use more than 1 or 2 peripherals. Or they want it for power connection only.

Anybody who a) has a significant number of USB-A peripherals (in my case, I'd say the number is above 30 distinct devices), b) understands that the USB-C label doesn't mean that it will work when you plug it in, has a more sensible approach: USB-C is fine, but don't remove our USB-A (or lightning) ports just yet.

> Having four USB-C ports with identical capabilities on a MacBook pro is a more pragmatic and flexible solution to have, when compared to MagSafe.

A more pragmatic solution to what? Everything I plug into these ports is via some ugly after-market adapter. There is not a single natively USB-C peripheral or cable that I have ever needed to attach (other than the power cable, of course). Even the iPhone itself is incompatible.

Luckily it's only a work machine and I get to use my older personal MBP at home...

Fun fact: While the later (PSP3000) models could, early models (PSP1000) couldn't charge via mini USB. Not too relevant but it's a common misconception.

> Having four USB-C ports with identical capabilities on a MacBook pro is a more pragmatic and flexible solution to have, when compared to MagSafe.

Four ports costs extra. The base model, which is ostensibly also a "pro" computer, only has two ports. That's one for power and one for everything else. If all of the pro machines came with four ports, then complaints about the USB-C transition wouldn't be so great.

I might love my iPhone even more with a MagSafe lightning port connector. Especially with a light to tell me if it’s charging or won’t take power because I forgot to unlock the phone.

>While I also love MagSafe and its features, wouldn't having a more standard port is much better?

And to piggyback off of this, I imagine the future will be wireless charging in this realm, so in theory you wouldn't need to worry about charger cables plugged into your laptop at all.

My current Macbook Pro is probably the first bit of Apple hardware in two decades that's made me actively consider alternatives. It's been the one laptop - premium at that - from Apple which I've had continual frustrations with compared to its predecessor, for all the reasons listed above.

I love USB-C, but not for power. Already, two of my ports are loose. I've never had that on any previous Apple power connector. MagSafe was a brilliant solution to real problems, and just dropping it without a superior alternative is not at all what I expect from Apple.

I also like the universality of USB-C, but it's not like Apple didn't opt to keep one legacy port for usability reasons - that little headphone port. SD and HDMI would have been enough.

And yes, the keyboard is terrible. For a machine I spend all day on, designed for pros, its a disappointment. Like most people here, it always takes me a little time to adapt to a new keyboard; unlike in the past, after more than a year I still loathe this one.

Perhaps the only thing that doesn't bring out my inner rage is the Touchbar. I'm largely ambivalent about it - the lack of esc/f-keys was annoying for a few days but I adapted. Obviously, others disagree, but on this list its the one choice I could have found a way to rationalize.

I could have written this ^^^ comment myself; I've been very disappointed with my 2017 MacBook Pro. They keyboard keys feel unpleasant, and now my H key has become unreliable (about 50% of the time it works, about 25% of the time it fails to register, and 25% of the time it types 2 characters). Dealing with dongles is not worth the headache. The touchbar is a step back in UI. The new trackpad is so large I bump it all the time. MagSafe was beloved for a reason.

Yesterday the last straw landed and I started setting up my 2012 MacBook again, at least for my writing, where I need a reliable built-in keyboard. I know Apple has a repair program for the 2017 MacBook keyboard[1], but it's my work machine, it's really hard to part with it for 1-3 days of repairs.

Edit to add: Moments after posting I run across this link: https://theoutline.com/post/6409/the-new-and-improved-macboo...

[1] https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...

I have had my keyboard repaired twice on my 2017, and the last time I went in (last week) they told me 10 days for the repair, which probably makes sense (as they are getting lots of repair orders) but seems totally unacceptable to me as a developer who is only lucky enough to be able to afford a 2nd machine.

For all the same reasons, I upgraded from a 2012 MacBook Pro to a 2018 model and returned it right away. I bought a lightly-used 2015 model on eBay instead. 2015 was the last model with a real keyboard. It feels just like my 2012 but with a small bump in all the specs.

> I'm going to keep my 2012 MBP going as long as I can. But when it dies or is no longer supported, I'm pretty sure ThinkPad is where I'm headed.

ThinkPads have garbage quality control. My last three: two T450s that had bad backlight bleed. Then a X1 Carbon 6th Gen that doesn't have backlight bleed, but LTE that just stops working randomly. (At least once a day, usually when waking up from sleep--so bad I've just disabled it.) Also, the X1C6 has the best trackpad on the ThinkPad line, or so I'm told, but it still sucks compared to a MacBook Pro. My next machine is going to be a Surface Laptop, I think.

Ugh, the touchpad. You’re right about that, and I’ve forgotten about it because my current work-issued ThinkPad spends almost 100% of its time on a dock.

Maybe the Surface is my next machine. Who knows what will be out there when I finally have to let this laptop go.

My 2008 MBP has a cool feature I miss: regardless of whether the laptop was o switched on or off, lid open or shut, you could press a little button on the left side and a number of LEDs would light up to indicate how much battery you had left.

Just to clarify, that's #2 in op's list. I did not know this was discontinued. I'm gonna go home and hug my 2012 MBP extra hard.

I was referring to the power light on the front of the early aluminum MBPs.

But this battery level indicator should be #6 on my list. I forgot about that. It was cool, too.

I forgot to list magsafe as one of those awesome things that was lost. I could take or leave the power indicator but it was kind of cool. It's such a no brainer that I'm surprised it's not been copied. Apple must have patented it too well.

Microsoft's Surface connector is Magsafe-ish, with USB and DP lines running through it as well. When I get to the office I put my laptop vaguely near the connector and it snaps into place, giving me two extra monitors, an external keyboard, and gigabit Ethernet.

My understanding was that they purchased the company that specialized in the laser perforation and all of the proprietary equipment required to make the metal thin enough for the light to shine through, which is a big part of the reason we haven't seen it elsewhere. And yeah, probably IP too.

Bang & Olufsen have the same thing on some of their products, as does Koenigsegg for the center console in their cars.

There were several articles around that...

It was a very special manufacturing procedure, something that is hard to copy without the special hardware.

And Apple bought all that supply. You couldn't get the production line to do it...

(IIRC, bit my memory may fail me on that. Please Google it, I would be interested in rereading it!)

I'd like a power and / or activity indicator, especially my previous mac (2013 or 14 Retina) had Issues in that it just wouldn't start up with no indication whatsoever that it was on, starting up, or there was a problem.

I mean just show an error on the screen. It's not the end of the world.

It's been copied. My Dell XPS has it :)

My absolute favorite feature from older Macbooks was the access panel on the bottom for swapping the battery and hard drive. I'm not sure what models have them; I have a standard Macbook from ~2008 that has it. You just press a lever and the panel comes right off, exposing the user-serviceable parts. You could swap the battery using no tools in about 10 seconds. Or you could swap the hard drive using a screwdriver in a few minutes.

I thought I'd miss MagSafe. After nearly two years without it, it turns out: I don't, because USB-C cables will disconnect in a lot of situations where MagSafe would've disconnected as well and USB-C has the advantage of allowing me to choose the side to plug the charging cable in, which is pretty convenient.

Same here.

The funny thing is, some people have a hard time losing features no matter what. There are alternatives to MagSafe, such as the Griffin BreakAway, but they don't buy these.

MagSafe wires insulation always breaks at both ends and the connector is too wide to fix that with a heat-shrinked tube easily.

SD Card slot is an essential thing, I can't believe they've removed it.

Lack of HDMI is not a problem IMHO, I've bought a great Thunderbolt-HDMI converter for about $10 on AliExpress, out it on my HDMI cable and forgotten about the problem.

Lack of some keys has always been a pain, removing even function keys and an ESC key looks like they really hate people that use terminal.

Removing classic USB ports was too ahead-of-time, they should have waited at least some years before doing this (BTW I actually am not sure USB-C is going to become the standard, there are a lot of problems with it).

> SD Card slot is an essential thing, I can't believe they've removed it.

Is this sarcasm? I don't remember the last time I used an SD Card on a laptop.

You probably don't have a DLCR camera and are comfortable with the built-in SSD capacity. Not having an SD slot while having a cam is like not having a car in LA, many Macbook users also rely on SD cards for "hard drive expansion", there even are SD cards designed right for this (e.g. https://gizmodo.com/this-leave-in-sd-card-merges-with-your-m...).

All these talks about SD Cards, it would have been fine if Apple were actively pushing an Energy Efficient Super High Speed Wireless Direct Transfer from Camera ( Do you mean DSLR? ) to Mac.

Then getting rid of SD card is more about moving towards the future, and not the past. The problem is not only does such standard not exist, Apple isn't working on any, the industry couldn't care less.

This is very different to all previous Apple's removal, where there is a clear better alternative, that might not be as good now but it is in their Spring as Steve Jobs would likes to put it.

> DSLR

Sure. I was very tired and couldn't remember the correct abbreviation, excuse me (believe it or not it's the first time in my life I actually typed it :-)).

> Then getting rid of SD card is more about moving towards the future, and not the past. The problem is not only does such standard not exist, Apple isn't working on any, the industry couldn't care less.

Makes sense but in fact I'm glad nobody is inventing a replacement. There are things that just work great, are simple and don't have to be replaced. Like headphone jacks. And SD cards are among of these things.

I am really excited about crostini on Chromebooks. I think a year from now a lot of us 2012 MBP users will find a new home in the Chromebook world.

ChromeOS + Android Emulation covers a lot of ground for UI needs in the developer workflow. For everything else, you have Linux via Crostini.

They have a much better security model than even OS X + little snitch + little flocker, too. I have both nvme pixelbook and touchbar rmbp and find myself using both a lot.

There are hacks for the magsafe desire...

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/7/12/15960594/m...

I just switched to a new 2018 macbook pro. The missing esc key isn't so bad. Thought I would hate it, but like everything else, including new FB redesigns, you get used to it and move on.

No esc key? They just crippled vi/vim users. For a piece of hardware that was the preferred laptop for Linux admins, that's stupid.

Hitting an escape key in the far upper left is more likely to cripple you than almost anything else.

I use press-and-release on the alt key to send 0x1b, as DEC intended.

If I wanted to bother with hacks I wouldn't have Apple products.

I'd suggest looking into remapping caps lock to esc if you miss it. This is something I do even on my Dell XPS.

But then you can’t use caps lock for control...

You can do both! I always remap my caps lock to act as escape when tapped and control when held. I wrote a blog post on how to do it: https://www.dannyguo.com/blog/remap-caps-lock-to-escape-and-...

> 2007 MacBook had the best laptop keyboard I'd ever used.

You mean 2007 Macbook Pro right ? One of the best tactile responses I'd ever experienced on a keyboard. Thinkpad T520 was another I really enjoyed typing on.

In my case it was the white plastic MacBook (non pro).

The design is terrible. I never use the touchpad for anything regular keys wouldn't do better. The keyboard on my 2017 MBP13 failed three times in the year I've owned it. The first time, the Apple Store person "cleaned" the keyboard, fixed things for a while. A couple of weeks later, the problem came back. I insisted on a better solution, and they replaced the keyboard.

Five months later, a different key failed, and the Apple Store people sent it to Memphis. This time, it came back with one of the "new and improved" keyboards. They also replaced the screen because of 'delamination' which I hadn't noticed. The total amount they spent to repair this computer is approaching the cost of the machine at this point! So far, the new keyboard hasn't failed yet but I'm not holding my breath…

I had a similar experience with a top spec late 2016 MBP, which I switched to from a PC for web development. It was my first and last Apple product.

After opening the lid one day there was a loud crackling noise and the speakers were both blown. To repair it, the Apple store had to replace the entire top case (top half of the chassis including keyboard, trackpad, speakers) and also replaced the battery, which would have cost ~£500.

I got it back two weeks later after dealing with a smug 'Genius' who treated me like an idiot. He also claimed that the software diagnostics were clean, so there was nothing wrong with the laptop. I had to drive 1 1/2 hours each way to the store for a second time during business hours just to argue in person with them, because the speakers were clearly broken.

The exact same problem happened twice more over the next year, taking two weeks to fix each time. The final time was outside of the 1yr AppleCare warranty, and they wanted to replace the top case, battery and logic board for ~£800.

Coupled with the useless touch bar, 16GM RAM cap, awful display scaling issues/confusion when external monitors were attached, sluggish performance for video editing and OS updates that broke the machine, it convinced me to avoid Apple products completely.

I got a full £3100 refund after 18 months under EU consumer law and build a powerful desktop PC (16 core ThreadRipper, 32GB RAM, 1080ti) with £1500 left over.

Are the touchbar Macbook Pros still experiencing widespread screen delamination? I thought that was specific to the previous generation.

would love to see a parts list for the ThreadRipper build.

It's something like this: https://i.imgur.com/0cXRPGB.png

My CPU is actually the 12 core / 24 thread version, which I got for £340 on a flash deal during a meet-up event. My case is also better than listed, but was the same price as part of a weekly deal.

Note that it's pre-VAT price (£1499), because it's a business computer. The Macbook was ~£3100 pre-VAT, and this thing shreds through video exports maybe 4-6x faster than the laptop. I do miss the MacOS terminal for web development though.

I personally find function keys useless (I’m mostly in Vim and map things to leader + mnemonic key sequences), so the Touch Bar tends to offer more value for things like media control. It really boils down to personal use, rather than a fundamentally flawed design.

Yeah, I’ve been interested in the touchbar as a way to get emacs-mode-specific shortcut keys.

WSL is terrible. It's basically a tech demo (look up what happens if you `cp` a file from `C:\...` to `/home/user` versus `copy` or going the other direction.

It's alright to boot up a linux "VM" using docker, but then you have to pay extra for windows pro or whatever so you can unlock hypervisor privileges.

I recently bought an extra SSD to put into the windows desktop I bought and am happily running linux, don't miss windows since I put it on there (even some steam games are quite nice and convenient).

Anyway, just look into WSL before you bet the farm on it.

I don't see the issue with this, they clearly warn you not to modify the WSL filesystem from Windows because you'll break it: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2016/11/17/do-n...

They advertise it as being useful for development work, and it perfectly fulfills that purpose for me

I use it daily with zero issues. I don't know why people keep perpetuating this, but it works great, as if it were native.

Same. I've found it to be really great overall. The default colors are basically unusable (looking at you, blue), but the functionality leaves little to be desired.

The Command Line team recently updated the default colors (especially a less terrible blue), but unfortunately it doesn't auto-apply to existing profiles for backwards compatibility concern reasons. Highly recommend grabbing the ColorTool and updating to the new colors if you get a chance.

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/08/02/upda...

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/08/11/intr...

huh. I tried to run our rails app in WSL, and it was so slow that it was unusable

I too use it daily on multiple machines (albeit Windows Pro with Hyper-V) and it's changed my day to day dev work dramatically.

Combined with Docker there is no reason for me to even look at MacOS or running Linux natively (which I have done before for years.)

For me it's the best thing to come out of Microsoft in a long time.

> For me it's the best thing to come out of Microsoft in a long time.

Agreed, I think it's an amazing feature. Have been a full time linux user for 20 years, my new laptop is BIOS locked ( ugh ) so I _cant_ install linux ( didnt know that before buying it ) , but it's actually not an issue because of WSL, it's exactly what I always wanted in Windows.

Please name and shame the brand, so we can avoid it. A BIOS that prevents you from installing Linux should be illegal IMO.

When my Windows laptops get too old and slow for the latest Windows plus patches, I get another 3 to 5 years of life out of them by installing Linux. I still have a little Dell laptop that I first put into service in 2004 as a Windows box, converted it to Linux in 2009, and it still runs.

What laptop is it? Was it part of an OEM sort of purchase through an employer, or something consumer off-the-shelf?

Interesting... I haven’t had any issues using WSL recently (since they fixed the networking stack).

I tried WSL briefly and discovered that the overhead of forking processes is annoyingly high, just like when I'd used cygwin in the past. (Maybe I should have expected that, but...) Try doing something like:

  time for i in $(seq 1 100); do /bin/pwd; done | wc

Compare on Linux (or even Mac OS) vs WSL. I was disappointed.

Did you report this as an issue? They seem to be fairly responsive to feedback. Would be interesting to see what their take is.

I believe Windows Defender is responsible for a lot of the IO overhead within WSL. You can get around that by marking your development directory as "don't scan" within Defender.

This is not accurate. I used WSL professionally for 2 years until recently switching back to Linux for unrelated reasons¹. The only issue I have had with WSL is filesystem performance. However, that is largely a result of the real-time virus protection in Windows Defender. Real-time protection is practically useless and slows down the rest of your computer as well, so disabling it is a pretty easy fix.

WSL is actually a fantastic piece of software. I can't believe how easy it is to install literal Arch Linux onto my Windows machine. It's also fairly simple these days to integrate VS Code with it.

¹ I've gradually lost enough vision in both eyes that I frequently lose track of the mouse cursor, so I switched to Linux for i3wm and better keyboard controls. Otherwise I would likely still be using Windows + WSL.

I moved my development side to WSL on the PC after giving up hope that Apple is ever going to replace my 2008 MacPro tower. The experience has essentially been flawless, and I'd consider it basically magic on how well it works. Best of both worlds. Any future Apple is just going to be whatever is cheapest as a daily driver, while the PC is going to handle heavy lifting from now on (Gaming, Development, Editing).

I'm a grad student and I'm using WSL for working on coding assignments. The only gripe I have is that it doesn't support launching IDEs (or any GUI applications for that matter) yet. You can jump through hoops by using an Xserver to connect to WSL but I haven't tried that out.

You may have heard it before, but I would recommend using Docker over faffing about trying to install PHP etc on the host. For Laravel look into https://laradock.io/ . Very simple to get a full environment setup.

Looking into how Docker works properly takes some time, so there is some overhead with that, but being able to switch environments between projects, test upgrading libs etc and instantly being able to switch back has been a game changer for me.

If you want 32gb of RAM, it's not an option, but I recently bought a Lenovo Carbon X1 laptop and it's really great [1]. I used to develop on a 2015 Macbook Pro, which was a fantastic computer, but I don't like the new ones as much. I've also used a 2017 Dell XPS 13 and it was good, but the Lenovo feels better to me.

Things that make it great:

1) Slightly larger screen at 14" is very nice, but the overall computer is still lighter than a MBP.

2) Keyboard is fantastic

3) Build quality feels like it can hold up to more abuse than MBP or Dell XPS

4) Has USB-C ports, but also has old USB-A style ports, so no need for adapters.

I dual boot with Windows and Linux. For better or worse, I still need to use Excel sometimes and LibreOffice's version doesn't cut it. The only thing I miss about macOS over Ubuntu is the ability to install Microsoft Office (without using Wine).

[1] plug for Costco who sells a nicely loaded (i7 processor, 16gb RAM, 512GB hard drive) version for $1500, or $1400 on sale.

Would you not be better with a VM for Excel, if that's all you need Windows for?

At a previous job I persuaded IT to build a Windows VM with all of their normal stuff in, so that I could boot Linux natively - it was a good way of working.

I hear ya. I just payed $600 to get the top case replaced on my mid-2014 mbp. With any luck that'll buy me another year or two of good use out of this thing because there's very little compelling about the new models. I wouldn't mind 32gb of faster ram and a slight CPU boost, but not at the cost of a worse, more error-prone keyboard with no hardware escape button and an awkwardly large trackpad.

I'm sure I could get used to all of those things eventually, but ideally there are more things in a new laptop that I want than things I have to get used to.

You should give Ubuntu an experimental try. I have only ever used Windows most my life, but for hobby projects I use Ubuntu/PopOS!.

If you are doing Web development I highly recommend that over Windows. Just last night I tried to setup a Phoenix project on a fresh install of windows and after 5 hours I was still installing C++ build tools, setting up path variables etc etc. It honestly is a world of pain.

I remember setting up the same project on Ubuntu in five minutes. Not to mention it is infinitely more responsive.

I just built me a new pc. First one in 15 years. I used to tinker with Linux a lot at that time.

Ubuntu 18.4: Hangouts screen share doesn't work, WiFi dies after resuming from sleep, and other minor things.

It has been 15 years and it still feels clumsy ... I was not impressed.

I had a similar experience with Ubuntu ten years ago. But now I have been using PopOS!_os https://system76.com/pop which is an Ubuntu distro, which has been the totally opposite experience. After the install I kept expecting everything to go wrong, and wifi not to work etc, but honestly "everything just works" seems to be the fitting description.

I still predominantly use Windows 10 due to gaming and doing a lot of .Net development, but I am changing jobs soon and I might just run Linux for a while. See what happens. Honestly my experience in Windows these days is one of pain and confusion. The file system is even annoying me quite a bit. Anyway, I probably just hit the hardware configuration sweet spot that mean't my Pop!_os installation wasn't riddled with driver issues.

That might be true, but on the flip side I have had things go horribly wrong with ubuntu where it either took me more then half a day hacking away at it, or worse case I just reinstalled ubuntu all together. Bad upgrades that break dependencies, video card drivers failing in strange ways, a bad boot that just drops me in grub, and etc. I even jump ship on distos when they annoyed me so much I wanted them dead. I mainly run lubuntu for my desktop needs and every now and then I think gentoo wouldn't do this to me gentoo might take 3 days for a upgrade to complete, but it wouldn't fail me like lubuntu is right now. Plus systemd makes me scream at night.

I'm trying to eventually move to just a laptop with an eGPU as both my work and game machine. I'd love to ditch Windows for Linux now that Valve's Proton is a thing. However I've spent too much money on Propellerhead's Reason and its Rack Extensions to easily give it up. Bitwig and Ardour are of course 1st class choices for a digital audio workstation on Linux, but I just found out that VSTs are OS specific as well.

No matter what I end up doing, I'll miss texting from my computer through iMessage.

That is exactly what I am doing. I just got an Aero 15 with a 1060gb, which I honestly think will suffice for most games I play.

But if I ever get into more graphically demanding games I can hook up an eGPU and throw in a 1080Ti or something.

WSL gives you an Ubuntu shell in Windows without virtualization. It's really the best.

Good joke.

Glad to see saying Windows users should experiment with Linux is still so controversial ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not controversial. Ubuntu specifically makes me unhappy.

Completely agree. Just started at a company about a month ago and was given a 2017 MacBook Pro. After 2 weeks of hating the entire experience (keyboard and touchbar) I asked for an older 2015 machine. Got it, much better now.

I just opted for an Ubuntu notebook in exchange for a MBP. At my new gig they let you choose between a MBP and a Thinkpad 470 (with two monitors each), and I think Ubuntu is WAY better for development. Saying this as someone who used Macs from 2003-2015 almost exclusively.

After my 2017 mbp developed several concurrent issues (screen, keyboard, speakers) I switched back to running Ubuntu on a lenovo x model. I'm satisfied, honestly, and won't be returning to Apple until they veer off this almost comical form-over-function course they're on (and that frankly seems unlikely)

My recommendation would be a ThinkPad with Fedora.

I have 32GB of RAM in mine and they are easy to open, service and upgrade :).

I use both and the last year has been the single best year I've had with Linux in terms of 'it just works', before that I used Ubuntu and while it was generally fine I prefer Fedora.

The cinnamon spin is superb and it makes windows 10 feel clunky by comparison on the daily usability.

How much money did you spend on it? I've looking for a Lenovo with 32GB for a while but always find just customized versions by third-party sellers

I paid £1368 for the T470P with the i7-7700HQ,2560x1440 screen, nvme ssd and 16Gb RAM and put the other 16Gb in myself.

It's a little monster of a machine.

Why not add the RAM yourself?

If you want to use a distro with first-class cinnamon support try Linux Mint.

I never liked Mac touchpads and hate even worse when Windows PCs copy them. Having left and right-click buttons is 1000x more ergonomic.

The PC implementations are really horrible. I have an HP Z Book 3 and the trackpad is unusable for me. I was desparate to get a mouse instead.

I'll just add: 17" MBP...

A lighter version with a retina screen, updated internals, and 2015 MBP style keyboard? Yes, please!

WSL is very, very slow. Be warned.

It's really not slow, I use it for everyday work in webdev and I basically have very few complaints

With anything involving virtual hardware and such it is hit and miss across the board. Even if both your machines have 16GB doesn't mean your ram functions perfectly. I have a linux box that has a failing hard drive in it that causes the folder program to crash when it fails to read from it. If I didn't understand it was a failing hard drive issue I would either blame linux disto or the folder program.

There is no virtual anything with WSL. It’s Linux userspace running on Windows kernel.

WSL involves no virtualization.

WSL is slow at creating processes, and pretty quick at everything else (in my experience).

This can mean some git commands (for instance) run slowly due to all the processes launched in the associated bash scripts.

I posted this above, could be helpful: I believe Windows Defender is responsible for a lot of the IO overhead within WSL. You can get around that by marking your development directory as "don't scan" within Defender.

I use it every day. It really is perfectly fine!

I also use it every day and have very few issues ( one problem where it became corrupted and I had to reinstall ).

It's not a production machine no one is using it that way, its perfectly fine for development.

Yes, it felt quite slow in certain situations (the last time I’ve tried). Because the WSL works by emulating syscalls from Linux, anything related to I/O can be quite slow...

It's not quite the same as emulation, and the overhead is less. It natively supports these syscalls, and in some cases the syscalls trigger the same code as their windows counterparts

In others, like fork, entirely new and unique code is ran.

The only time that it’s painfully slow in my experience compared to native Linux is installing packages with apt.

> Right now I'm considering moving to developing on a Galaga Pro and using Windows/WSL. I've got most things setup on my desktop how I like using HyperTerm (I had too much trouble with Cmder)

Hyper's got a few critical bugs, and Cmd is just ConEmu). If you want iTerm2 like functionality on Windows, Terminus destroys Hyper, ConEmu, Alaciritty and everything else.

https://github.com/mikemaccana/powershell-profile

I really like my Dell Precision 5520. They keyboard is a little inferior to Mac or ThinkPad, but in most other aspects there is good attention to detail, and it has good Linux drivers.

I completely agree about the 2015 gen MBP. Unfortunately the Galaga Pro is disappointing in it's own way: only 2-3 hours battery life.

I would suggest using a docker image with a mounted volume for development - there are alternatives, vagrant being one of them. As your production server will _most likely_ be a flavour of linux, this can help weed out "works on my machine" issues.

Checkout Laragon (laragon.org). It comes with php, nginx/Apache, mysql/mariadb, etc in a way that you can swap them out. Cmder is nicely integrated and the binaries can be added to PATH, so they will work in Cmder or a y other shell too.

For Laravel development on Windows, use https://laragon.org/

Thanks for this. I'll check it out.

> nor get my GPG and SSH keys for Github working.

This definitely works, I've used it back in the day (needs "enable-ssh" in config).

Good to know. I was following instructions for Windows on Github and just felt ultra dense as it kept not working.

I always just installed git for Windows and put keys in my user\.ssh folder and that's worked for me for as long as I can remember. What issues is everyone having? Am I just missing something?

They are using GPG Authentication subkeys for SSH.

I have them on a smartcard and it works really well (you can also connect Yubikey 4C to Android via OpenKeychain and login to servers using Termbot on the go using hardware stored keys - secure and convenient!).

Ah so I'm just much more cavalier with my ssh keys. The 4C looks interesting though, thanks for the recommendation!

Nowadays it's probably 5C, or 5 if you need USB-A connector.

An added benefit of Yubikey backed keys is touch to use so that you need to physically touch the token to use the key. A critical matter when using ForwardAgent!

[0]: https://developers.yubico.com/PGP/Card_edit.html

Oh I think I used ssh pageant [0] once and Putty support in GnuPG, I think it was more reliable (I don't remember clearly, sorry for that!)

[0]: https://github.com/cuviper/ssh-pageant

The macbook pro 2018 keyboard makes me want to cry. My fingers don't flow the rate my brain does anymore :(

> I can't seem to figure out how to install PHP 7.2 correctly to work on Laravel

Overall probably a net benefit for society honestly, if it means less PHP in production. (I kid)