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Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by ckastner on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:42AM (#16856560)
Note that since the issue is GDPR compliance, this should only be a problem for registrants who are natural persons. So if Whois data were only collected and published for corporations, there shouldn't be a problem.

I always felt uncomfortable having to submit my personal data, specifically: my address and phone number, and for it to be published like that (regarding domains where Whois protection services are not allowed). I can understand the motivation for this with regards to corporations and organizations, but what benefit is there with regards to natural persons?

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by Lunatic666 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:37AM (#16857071)
Most of the whois hiding services cost money, so if I get this “service” for free now, I don’t have much sympathy with the whois guys.

If it’s about contacting people, they could make the abuse@ or webmaster@ address mandatory, then you can separate it from your normal email accounts, because the majority will be spam anyway.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by rkibbe on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:17AM (#16859097)
Google Domains includes private registration - no additional cost. The service is simple with transparent (although not the best) pricing. Have a few domains there now. And yes, I'm aware that Google and privacy are strange bedfellows in the same sentence.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by neya on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:21AM (#16859136)
I second Google domains. For some domains it's worth the money, for others not so much. But still, you get really good DNS and a really nice + simple interface and the fact that I don't need to remember another pair of username/password makes it well worth it.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by curun1r on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:59PM (#16864507)
I've been hesitant to use Google for services like this after hearing about incidents where Google disabled everything associated with a Google account after detecting some violation of their ToS. I'd hate to lose my domain name because I, say, used the Maps API in some way that Google didn't appreciate. Google needs to be better at siloing their products before I'd consider using them for something that mission critical.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by natch on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @11:39AM (#16868232)
>after detecting some violation of their ToS.

And often it's not a violation, it's an alleged, unspecified, un-counterable data point hidden in Google's cloud with no way for the user to determine what it might have been.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by test6554 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @01:27PM (#16860386)
But who knows who really owns the domain? Google Knows Who...
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by judge2020 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @05:05PM (#16862321)
This is like saying that GoDaddy, Namecheap, or any of the countless number of other domain registrars own every domain registered with them. Performing a fraudulent transfer or DNS change would destroy their registry business and cause a PR nightmare.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by dustingetz on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @05:44PM (#16862578)
Yeah the shenanigans are caused by rock bottom price market (similar to airfare shenanigans)

I moved everything to AWS DNS and am super happy about it. Domains are mission critical, I'll pay double without blinking to know that my stuff isn't gonna be held ransom over some contrived baloney

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by p49k on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @10:42AM (#16867757)
> to know that my stuff isn't gonna be held ransom over some contrived baloney

Like accidentally changing the name on a kindle to “baba”?

https://www.reddit.com/r/amazon/comments/5gvgdl/using_a_amaz...

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by tracker1 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:01PM (#16863059)
I'm currently using Google Domains for all of my domains... the really simple UX made the choice and lack of any in your face additional services was nice too.

Though, bulk editing would be nice, I'm about to move. :-( If anyone here works for google domains, it would be REALLY nice to be able to update all contact info on all domains at once.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by Operyl on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:22PM (#16863193)
I'm extremely surprised that they didn't offer some sort of API to it. I just spent the past 10 minutes looking to be sure, but that seems very unlike Google.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by themihai on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:58PM (#16863767)
>> but that seems very unlike Google.

Not really. Appengine for example didn't have an admin API until recently(and it's still quite limited).

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by _o_ on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @02:09AM (#16865043)
Google is probably the last I would give my personal details, actually I would rather gave them to Facebook. Whois is bothering me exactly becoase of google and similar companies.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by amaccuish on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:31AM (#16858647)
Or offer an anonimiser service in place of your email, which just redirects to your actual email. Not everyone hosts email on their domain.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by apocalyptic0n3 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @03:04PM (#16861289)
> If it’s about contacting people, they could make the abuse@ or webmaster@ address mandatory

What about domain owners like mysql who have no email attached to their domains? I only have two personal domains, but I have never had a need for an accounts to be associated with the domains nor do I think I would ever check it.

Perhaps have those two account DNS lookups always go through the registrar who then forwards to your account email? Even that doesn't seem very fool proof, though.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by nodesocket on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:47PM (#16862174)
AWS Route 53 domains also provides "private" whois for free included in the cost.

    .com are $12/year
    .net are $11/year
    .io are $39/year
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by homero on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @05:39PM (#16862543)
I use Porkbun which has free privacy and the pricing is almost wholesale.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by nodesocket on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @03:53PM (#16870537)
.io domains are cheaper on AWS Route53 domains than Porkbun.

$39/year AWS Route53 and $47.68/year on Porkbun.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by kelnos on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:38PM (#16863670)
There's no need for this. The SOA DNS record of every domain already includes an email contact (more by convention than requirement, I think?). It's mildly annoying because they have to replace the '@' with a '.' due to limitations in what can be in the field, but it's pretty easy to extract the correct information.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by nabc45 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:48AM (#16857426)
>Most of the whois hiding services cost money

Where? I never paid a dime

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by fencepost on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:44AM (#16858193)
It's probably a question of whether the privacy features are separately charged or are bundled in a standard plan that's a bit higher priced than "bare" registration.

Since control panels, reputation, policies and other services like DNS are also things that can be bundled together, it's going to be difficult to say whether or how much you're paying for just the privacy component.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by ry_ry on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:07AM (#16857523)
123reg charge for whois privacy too, as do a bunch of other registrars.

Always felt like mild extortion.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by pc86 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:33AM (#16857679)
Please do share the registrar that blocks all whois data for free!
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by jcwayne on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:50AM (#16857768)
I've used Hover.com (owned by Tucows) for several years. In my opinion they are the anti-Godaddy. The things that should be free are and the extras are presented as just that. No trickery or beating you over the head with up-sales.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by corobo on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:34AM (#16858106)
Are they really free though if the price is higher than alternatives? Also the renewal costs look like they're mostly regcost + $2 for some reason
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by jcwayne on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:53AM (#16858867)
The higher renewal charge is odd, I hadn't noticed that before. It's nothing like most of the TLDs, but it is nearly half of what they list [1] as trending.

That aside, I'm still glad to pay a little more for the overall better service. If they were charging anything like the old Network Solutions prices, that'd be a different matter.

[1] https://www.hover.com/domain-pricing

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by corobo on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:46AM (#16859407)
Yeah in all honestly a couple extra $ wouldn't put me off using them, I was more wondering if there was a decent reason behind it. Having said that I'm paying almost $20/year less for my io domains at Namecheap, that one's a bit of a steep difference

Once a domain is registered all they need to do really is process auto-renew payments, notify me if my card was declined for any reason, and make sure it's kept registered at the registry.

Unfortunately in any case though I've stopped at the gate, they don't appear to have an API

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by always_good on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:42AM (#16858171)
Whois privacy included in the price is still much better than having to remember to buy and renew the service per domain.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by corobo on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:47AM (#16859420)
Any registrar making money on whois privacy has an option and motive to autorenew the privacy with the domain. If anything Namecheap bugs me with it because I don't want whois privacy on my domains!
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by always_good on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @01:46PM (#16860586)
If you don't want it, then you can use pretty much every other registrar that doesn't build it in.

But an issue with whois privacy is that if you ever don't have it for a period (like you forget to renew/autorenew), then it's now saved in a number of DNS/whois history services.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by hathawsh on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:08PM (#16861839)
Those services are probably also in breach of GDPR. :-)
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by haldora on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:44AM (#16857735)
namesilo [1] provides free whois privacy on domain name purchases. Classic interface, but very cheap. :)

[1] https://www.namesilo.com

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by virusduck on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @12:58PM (#16860111)
I love namesilo, and I find the interface refreshing/charming. The price is right, too!

As an aside, .us addresses cannot be registered anywhere with privacy controls enabled.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by jessaustin on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:04PM (#16863788)
It doesn't seem that .us addresses would be subject to GDPR? One could see .com as an edge case, even though really Europeans should just appreciate the fact we let them on our internet b^), but .us is not in doubt.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by fwn on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @09:43AM (#16867298)
True for .us. however: There is currently (as far as I understand) no way to hide whois data for .de (German) domains. So that might get interesting.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by panarky on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:13AM (#16858450)
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by garaetjjte on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:18AM (#16857964)
I think it depends on TLD. My country TLD whois just lists registrant info as 'data restricted' unless it is explicitly requested to be public.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by astura on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:50AM (#16858250)
I registered my domain on Namecheap and I got WhoisGuard at no additional cost, maybe it's only for the first year though? I made sure it was actually no additional cost by removing it to see the total and it was still the same price, $11/year. I say "no additional cost" but it might actually be more like "bundled cost."
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by freehunter on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:09AM (#16858422)
Namecheap is free for first year but you have to pay for any additional years.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by astura on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:19AM (#16858510)
Thanks for the info.

Ah, yes, its documented:

https://www.namecheap.com/security/whoisguard.aspx

>When you register an eligible new domain name or transfer an existing eligible domain into Namecheap, you'll receive the first year of WhoisGuard privacy protection absolutely FREE.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by jasonjayr on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:49AM (#16857761)
https://www.pairdomains.com/

Free protection, no upsells, $19/yr for 1 yr of .com $13/yr for 5 years. TOTP 2FA as well. Never had a problem for the 15 years I've been with them.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by tomcooks on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:10AM (#16857906)
Glorious porkbun.com
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by isaack on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:32AM (#16859255)
Seconded.

They run their own TLD's .design, .ink and .wiki [1] so these guys really know their stuff. Support is not 24/7, but usual office hours, but those who pick up your phone/email REALLY know what they are talking. Plus really cheap domains, they mentioned somewhere that they are aiming for $1 mark-up for all TLD's.

[1]: http://toplevel.design/

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by ateesdalejr on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:32PM (#16862054)
Me three. I own a few .ninja domains there. I didn't even notice they gave you free privacy until after having bought there. Every question I had was promptly answered in a few hours as well.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by lsh on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:56AM (#16857808)
gandi.net
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by always_good on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:46AM (#16858213)
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by lgunsch on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @12:37PM (#16859914)
.ca domains don't need to be protected - they get it for free. I only need to sign up for the extra protection when I register domains on other TLDs.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by yread on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:43AM (#16857732)
google domains
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by cm2187 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:55AM (#16858287)
OVH but they do not hide the name, just all other data
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by facetube on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:00AM (#16858336)
Gandi
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by bringtheaction on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:09AM (#16858416)
Gandi user here. After I read your comment I tried to enable this but it doesn't work.

When I change whois privacy to enabled and press save it just says "Unable to update the contact."

This happens both with my .com and my .net domain.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by facetube on Sunday April 22, 2018 @06:51AM (#16895601)
Weird; I have active domains where it's working. Given it requires a contact info update, could be an unrelated bug. I'd definitely file a ticket.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by distantsounds on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:08AM (#16857893)
njal.la (and they host DNS as well!) - operated by ex-piratebay dudes
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by ryanlol on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @12:16PM (#16859693)
There’s an UDRP precedent saying that using njal.la as your registrar constitutes bad faith.

http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/text/2017/d2017...

Given that precedent matters a lot in UDRP cases, I’m not sure that njal.la is a realistic option.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by wlll on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:21AM (#16859133)
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by nabc45 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:45AM (#16857739)
Namesilo?
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by Kwpolska on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:32AM (#16858083)
Where are the free services? And are they really free, or are they silently included in the domain cost? I’ve yet to see anyone beat Namecheap’s $13.75 for .com (2nd year onwards, with protection).
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by djsumdog on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:02AM (#16858358)
name.com charges extra for "whois protection." The e-mails I have registered for various contacts are pretty much spam buckets. You pretty much need a separate VoIP account to handle all the scam calls/voicemail too.

I get some calls/e-mails so quickly I wonder if they have some kind of live stream setup for registrations on some TLDs.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by nicky0 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:50AM (#16857439)
Godaddy
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by tazard on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:05AM (#16857865)
At least in Canada, this is absolutely not true. https://ca.godaddy.com/domainaddon/private-registration.aspx
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by tazard on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:08AM (#16857888)
Sorry, I thought you were replying to the, where it's free parent, not the where it's not free parent. Please ignore what I wrote earlier.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by chopin on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:49AM (#16856579)
To have IP lawyers go after you. Of course there are no benefits and only downsides for natural persons.

I have little sympathy for ICANN with this. Malevolent persons can always go to registrars which do not publish personal information and even accept anonymous registration. The current policy harms only lawful citizens.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by _o_ on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:57AM (#16857812)
The whois record was highly annoying I and i was getting spam at given email address (which was never posted anywhere else). I dont care what ICANN thinks about whois, it is annoying and it is great if it will go away.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by jacquesm on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:30AM (#16858058)
The spam won't go away. Once your address is out there it will stay out there (unless you change your email address).

Those email lists only tend to get longer, never shorter, I still see spam sent to addresses I haven't used in years (and backlink spam requests for websites that haven't been alive since the 90's!).

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by _o_ on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:39AM (#16858138)
I will just kill the email address. Due to the tracking on internet I am using a customized email address for each site where I register to (for example sha1(news.ycombinator.com-secret)@mydomain.com) while my personal address is never used on any website so my antispam quest is quite simple :) You send spam, you are redirected to /dev/null

As a side effect, I know when my address is sold to anyone and by which site, I am already sharpening my papers, after 25. of May, every website that will give away my address is going to get serious papercut.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by sjtgraham on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:43AM (#16858757)
How can you prove a data controller gave away your information and that you didn’t falsely do it yourself?
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by mschuster91 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @01:53PM (#16860655)
The burden of proving the provenance of the data relies on the data controller. Unless the data controller wants to pay a high fine, he has to prove where he got the data, and how/when/where the data owner agreed that the data controller was allowed to use the data.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by sjtgraham on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @05:18PM (#16862398)
Have you read the GDPR?
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by GCU-Empiricist on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @11:04AM (#16867928)
Can you please post a blog guide on administering these paper-cuts.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by giobox on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:37PM (#16862906)
One of the few practical uses of WHOIS data is basically so ICANN have an address on file for when someone wants to dispute your ownership of a domain on trademark grounds. Anyone who registers a gTLD is forced to submit to their private dispute resolution process (UDRP) as part of their agreement with their registrar. There’s literally no way to opt out unless you don’t want a gTLD, thanks to ICANN’s total control.

There's also (very bad) precedent in the UDRP for using out of date or inaccurate WHOIS information as evidence of Registration/Use in bad faith. There's even been cases where a UDRP panelist has argued using WHOIS privacy services was prima facie evidence of bad faith, which beggars belief.

http://www.udrpsearch.com/naf/1684372

"This Panel member is persuaded there is bad faith registration and use because of several factors. The first factor is using a privacy service in a commercial context raises a rebuttable presumption of bad faith. Respondent has done nothing to rebut that presumption. Respondent does not need to conceal its identity from the marketplace to be a domain name reseller. Respondent offers no explanation as to why Respondent concealed its identity (and conceals it to this very day). Only people with an intent to deceive conceal their identity, which is the very definition of bad faith. Since Respondent did this at the time of registration and through the present day, there was bad faith registration and use of the domain name."

Thankfully other panel members dissented, but the UDRP has a long history of questionable reasoning and decision making, and bizarre WHOIS issues are not unheard of.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by walshemj on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:09AM (#16856942)
But in Germany by law all websites must publish information about the publisher, including their name and address, telephone number or e-mail address, trade registry number, VAT number, and other information depending on the type of company.

all this seems fine according to eu law so I am not sure why dns registration is any diferent

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by detaro on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:04AM (#16857203)
Commercial sites, not all sites. My private homepage doesn't need it, since I don't have ads and don't advertise my own products or services on it.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by MrGilbert on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:38AM (#16857372)
There are a lot of uncertainties in this area. For example, if you provide journalistic content on your website (e.g. regular blog postings, even for free),then this could be interpreted as an opinion-forming activity, which in turn requires an imprint.

(Source [German]: https://www.e-recht24.de/artikel/datenschutz/209.html )

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by SyneRyder on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:24AM (#16857625)
The Bundesministerium der Justiz und für Verbraucherschutz seems to give a similar opinion:

http://www.bmjv.de/DE/Verbraucherportal/DigitalesTelekommuni...

I'm reading from the English translation here, but it suggests that "businesslike" also includes something that is ongoing / sustained. So if your personal blog is posted every Tuesday, it could be said that is "businesslike" (geschäftsmäßig). They also specify that profit is not a requirement.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by blattimwind on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:49AM (#16858234)
The "I have a blog and now I need an imprint" faction is essentially FUD.

Geschäftsmäßig doesn't require Gewinnerzielungsabsicht (intent to make a profit), but does actually require an intent to make business, in whatever form, but not necessarily on the site itself. For example, a business owner having a very simple website just stating what his business does will require an imprint on that site, because obviously the intent of the website is to inform about his business. If, on the other hand, you have a blog with no ads about your kittens then you don't need an imprint.

Just because something is an unbestimmter Rechtsbegriff (non-exhaustively defined law term) doesn't mean you can just go ahead and act as if it means anything you like.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by SyneRyder on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:21AM (#16858536)
I've given you an upvote, as that does seem to make sense.

But to confirm, the particular quote from the BMJV that I was going by on that page is this one, does it match with your understanding? (My German comprehension isn't great.)

"Die Anbieterkennzeichnungspflicht muss praktisch von jedem, der ein Online-Angebot bereithält, erfüllt werden. Etwas anderes gilt nur bei Angeboten, die ausschließlich privaten oder familiären Zwecken dienen und die keine Auswirkung auf den Markt haben. Im Zweifel sollten Sie davon ausgehen, dass die Anbieterkennzeichnungspflicht besteht."

The first sentence seemed to say that "in practice everyone offering something online must comply", and I took "privaten" in the second sentence to imply private as in "password protected / not publicly accessible". But as someone learning German I've probably interpreted those too narrowly, and I'd love to be corrected on the nuance!

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by blattimwind on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:42AM (#16859355)
> die ausschließlich privaten oder familiären Zwecken dienen und die keine Auswirkung auf den Markt haben

which exclusively cater to private/family needs/affairs and [thus] have no impact on the markets.

> I took "privaten" in the second sentence to imply private as in "password protected / not publicly accessible".

No, privaten Zwecken here refers to personal affairs.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by stronglikedan on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:56AM (#16859517)
Holy wow, that seems draconian! Is it solely so they can find you and prosecute you for your opinions? (serious question)
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by the_mitsuhiko on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @02:36PM (#16861070)
That has nothing to do with opinions but being able to contact someone if laws are broken etc.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by astura on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:34AM (#16858686)
Playing devil's advocate, it can be argued in some cases that even if your private homepage met that criteria, its purposes could be to advertise/establish/further your personal "brand" thus is for business purposes. For example, if you blogged about technical topics that could benefit your employment opportunities in the technical fields and get you speaking engagements. There's examples of people who have built careers solely from personal blogs/homepages.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by gsich on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:34AM (#16858108)
Domain != website
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by kuschku on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:12AM (#16856963)
Because you publish yourself, you can change it yourself, and you can take it down again yourself.

And as a reminder, the German rule only applies to commercial sites — a site with no ads and no way to pay such as quasseldroid.info does not need an Imprint.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by cJ0th on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:31AM (#16857670)
> And as a reminder, the German rule only applies to commercial sites — a site with no ads and no way to pay such as quasseldroid.info does not need an Imprint.

I wouldn't be too sure. There is, unfortunately, a lot of room for interpretation with this law. Rather cautious adviser urge you to have one as long as your website isn't private in the sense that can't be accessed by the public (i.e. a website for family members that can only be accessed with a password).

This law (IANAL) is just horrible.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by kuschku on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:30AM (#16858055)
How is it horrible?

The law just requires a way to contact a person within of a few days, and a way to be able to get the person behind a site to be able to sue them.

The alternative is sites that you can't do anything against if they act illegally against you, e.g. through libel and slander.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by cJ0th on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @04:33AM (#16865706)
I agree that you should be able to get in contact with the website owner. However, I believe it'd be better if a person had to at least query denic to get your address. That's easy enough if you have to resolve a serious matter and the website owner is also a bit more protected against abuse of their data.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by kuschku on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @06:05AM (#16866058)
To get whois info for .de you already have to solve a captcha and write a paragraph about who you are and why you need it.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by gsich on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:35AM (#16858114)
Email address is enough for that.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by kuschku on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:11AM (#16858439)
An email address is no Vorladungsfähige Adresse. You can't sue that, you can't send a Gerichtsvollzieher to it, and you can't seize the owners assets with it.

If I want to send an Abmahnung to a website owner, because they publicly defame me — as has happened before — then I need something stronger than an email address. Or I need to invoke the right to be forgotten, but I don't want to do so, I prefer having a way to eliminate the source.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by gsich on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:18PM (#16862800)
You are talking about an Impressum. No need for that info in the whois.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by kuschku on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:29PM (#16863245)
The topic was Impressum. The user starting this subthread complained about Impressum.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by dx034 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:27AM (#16857644)
Unless you provide journalistic content. Then you could be required to have an imprint as well.

I was always wondering if they overturn this at some point. I don't know of any other country requiring it and I doubt that it helps taking down illicit content. If anything, it helps consultants for offshore companies.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by cJ0th on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:38AM (#16857704)
I hate this law with a passion. It doesn't seem proportionate to me at all. The main beneficiaries are folks who want to sell addresses in bulk and dodgy lawyers ("Abmahnanwälte").

I'd be fine with depositing my personal date somewhere so that people with legitimate concerns can contact me but it should require some effort so that the function can't be abused.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by captainmuon on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:58AM (#16856631)
And the ridiculous thing is that European* law mandates that you have an "impressum" on all but the most basic sites. You can hide your personal adress in the WHOIS info by putting a neutral third party. The registry I use, inwx.de, offers this service for a few euros. But you cannot (easily) hide your identity in the impressum - you might be able to use a shell company or find a natural person willing to put their name there, but it is much harder.

How can they claim "data protection" in one case and make it mandatory to put your name and phone number their in another?

It makes me very uncomfortable to host a website, when I know I will get spam, unwanted telefone calls, maybe even unwanted visits at my home, etc.. And it deters me from posting something even a bit controversial on my own domain - this is probably an intended side-effect of the "impressum" policy.

(* well, German law, but there is likely something similar in other countries)

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by detaro on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @05:02AM (#16856646)
If I'm not mistaken, businesses are EU-wide required to have contact data on their pages. And German courts tend to use a very wide definition of commerce – the best compromise is probably to keep commerce and private opinion on strictly separated domains, even if that means no advertising income from the private page.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by krageon on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:16AM (#16856981)
"contact data" is already a pretty nebulous term. If my experience with European business websites is anything to go by, this is not the sort of requirement that the GP is talking about.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by detaro on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:01AM (#16857188)
I said "contact data" as shorthand for the specific requirements, since I would have to look them up. And yes, the "Impressumpflicht" the parent talks about is exactly that, in a very strict form.

EDIT: To elaborate, the EU e-commerce directive from 2000 requires all member states to have laws that require commercial sites to have at least name of the entity, physical mailing address, business registration IDs if applicable, e-mail and VAT ID published. Since it's only a directive, the details vary from country to country. E.g. France requires also listing a phone number and an actual person responsible for site content.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by krageon on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:41AM (#16857385)
I'm not talking about the German laws. Germany is not the right example for how the EU works because in cases like this they are almost always much, much stricter than everyone else. The requirements you noted for a business in the more general case (EU-wide, in other words) are much more lax.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by Doctor_Fegg on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @05:22AM (#16856724)
No, this is a DACH thing and certainly not a Europe-wide thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressum
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by walshemj on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:11AM (#16856958)
It is for electoral publications in the UK you MUST include the publisher and the electoral agent
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by danmaz74 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:07AM (#16856931)
> (* well, German law, but there is likely something similar in other countries)

Why do you leave a lie at the top of your comment with an asterisk to clarify it's a lie at the bottom? It's NOT a European law. If other countries have similar laws, it's still not a European law. Please remove the lie.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by dang on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @03:10PM (#16861344)
People can make mistakes without "lying", and it's perfectly fine to correct a mistake by adding a note at the bottom. Indeed it's arguably more helpful that way, since a new reader will better be able to understand the context of the replies.

To bombard someone with the word "lie" crosses into incivility (rather aggressively, as I read it), and also breaks the site guidelines by not giving the benefit of the doubt. Could you please not treat others like this here? Instead, assume good faith, as the guidelines ask.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by danmaz74 on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @02:48AM (#16865210)
I respectfully disagree. In cases like this, if the user made a honest mistake and then issues a correction, it should be in line, at the same level as the mistake - otherwise, it's exactly like when a newspaper spreads a false accusation in the first page, and then a retraction at page 7. What sticks in the mind of the casual reader is the first untruth, not the truth that follows.

By the way, even the correction below is a untruth, because only a few other EU countries have similar laws.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by vincentmarle on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:23AM (#16857011)
Edit: you both are right
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by antientropic on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:30AM (#16857045)
In this context, indeed it isn't. It would be just as wrong to write "US law mandates..." when the law in question is in fact only Texas state law. I.e. "European law" != "a law somewhere in Europe".
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by danmaz74 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:36AM (#16857063)
I'm saying that writing "European law mandates that you have an "impressum"" is a lie.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by nabc45 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:35AM (#16857062)
>(* well, German law, but there is likely something similar in other countries)

Nah there is not. Don't lie.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by dang on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @02:51PM (#16861180)
This breaks the site guidelines. Please assume good faith in others when posting here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by peterwwillis on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:15AM (#16856973)
> what benefit is there with regards to natural persons?

  [ tries to visit ckastner.com ]
  [ the website is down ]
  [ looks up Whois record for ckastner.com ]
  [ picks up phone, dials number ]
  "Hello, yes, Christian Kastner? Your website is down. Just thought you should know."
That, and for the abuse address, and for dealing with technical issues between different sites, etc. You can use a Whois-hiding service to make it private yet still get the communications.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by ckastner on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:23AM (#16857619)
> "Hello, yes, Christian Kastner? Your website is down. Just thought you should know."

This is a perfect example for one of a positive effects of the GDPR afforded to natural persons.

I haven't been associated with that domain for 15 years or so. Why is someone still maintaining my personal data, some of it now wrong/obsolete, in a public database?

Edit: Just to be clear, I don't see a problem with the parent having posted this information here, as the parent just reposted this from another public source. The problem here is clearly the other source.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by bmn__ on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:09AM (#16857222)
Realistic version:

• tries to visit ckastner.com

• the website is down

• retrieve the information from an archived snapshot instead https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/resurrect-pages-isu...

• Christian Kastner was already notified by email from his automated monitoring that the website is down

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by jacquesm on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:32AM (#16858079)
And his phone number changed 3 times in the meantime so instead you'll be waking up Nina Sonnenschein at 3 am.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by kroltan on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:12AM (#16857563)
Not very realistic for a lot of personal websites. Sure, newfangled ones that leverage similar pipelines as of web applications, absolutely. But a large fraction of the Web is still a bunch of PHP scripts cobbled together on some outdated hosting service, or equivalent.

Not everyone with a website is a web developer, or paid a knowledgeable and modern web developer to make the website.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by always_good on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:50AM (#16858240)
It's also not realistic to expect people to want some rando to be able to call them about their website.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by kroltan on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @01:20PM (#16860319)
Is it? I always name my personal belongings (umbrellas et al) so if I forget them somewhere public and whoever finds it is a kind soul, they can return it to me.

Of course nobody _else_ should be forced on sharing details just for this kind of occasional utility, I'm not claiming that.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by always_good on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @01:52PM (#16860645)
Am I supposed to make the assumption for you that because you put your name on your lunchbox, you prefer to make available your name, phone number, and address on your website whois?

Honestly, I think you should take social engineering more seriously if you think the benefits outweigh the costs.

Like someone removing their front door because it might encourage someone to drop by for some stimulating conversation.

For example, the author of the "Amazon Backdoor" post a while back suspected that the attacker got their address from a whois of one of their domains.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by 1over137 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:16AM (#16857575)
If his website was down, his email could be down too, if on the same downed server. I suppose an automated monitoring system could phone him though.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by wheaties on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:02AM (#16857503)
For those that weren't around in the 90s, this is exactly what happened. These down votes reflect a perception of the present without a context for the past. The Web was a _very_ different place 25 years ago.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by freehunter on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:14AM (#16858459)
>These down votes reflect a perception of the present without a context for the past

I think rather the comments in support of an open Whois are looking at the past with overwhelming nostalgia instead of objective reality.

To your own point, the Web is a very different place now. But Whois is still the same, reflecting a reality that no longer exists. It's time for a change.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by astura on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:26AM (#16858599)
I don't think that comment was supporting open whois, just giving a historical context.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by gaius on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @08:27AM (#16857643)
There were still bad actors of course. But the tipping point hadn’t been reached where they materially spoilt it for the rest of us. In those days you might get one spam/phishing/whatever email a week and you’d complain to the SA of the originating site and get a personal email back that they’d dealt with it. Nowadays of course it is a river of sewage.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by geofft on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @03:45PM (#16861660)
That sounds like a fantastic reason for whois to be non-public. Perhaps it just receives email and isn't running a web server - why would Christian Kastner want phone calls every day from someone "helpful" on the internet?
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by detaro on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @07:03AM (#16857202)
The ICANN proposal preserves a way to contact the owner (via e-mail), so that's not impacted.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by peterwwillis on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:04AM (#16857855)
If your website is down, your mail relay may be down, making e-mail unavailable. The phone is also a much better way to contact someone immediately, which you might want when your website is down.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by jacquesm on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:33AM (#16858089)
If you rely on your visitors to phone you when your website is down you are doing something very wrong.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by peterwwillis on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:12AM (#16858440)
Once I worked for a company where part of the website had been compromised by an attacker, and was being used to host some malware. We only found out when a random visitor found it, then looked through the site and found a random support address (which was supposed to be internal-only), and sent us an e-mail to tell us about it, which luckily generated a ticket which we eventually reviewed.

We would have preferred someone called us immediately, in case we didn't see the ticket immediately. But we didn't have a security hotline publicly listed.

Putting a phone number in a big public directory of phone numbers for when e-mail doesn't work isn't a bad idea, regardless of what anyone (including the EU) says. We've had phone books forever. This is just a phone book for domains.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by always_good on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:25AM (#16858578)
Well, that's a case for how it should be opt-in, though.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by always_good on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:53AM (#16858266)
Agreed.

"My website is so critical that I want random people to be able to call me about it" is an oxymoron I don't think anybody has ever said.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by Animats on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @02:09PM (#16860830)
Whois info should be available for all businesses under EU law, under the European Directive on Electronic Commerce. In the EU, privacy is only for individuals. If you're in business, the commercial rules apply:[1]

Member States shall ensure that the service provider shall render easily, directly and permanently accessible to the recipients of the service and competent authorities, at least the following information: (a) the name of the service provider, (b) the geographic address at which the service provider is established, (c) the details of the service provider, including his electronic mail address, which allow him to be contacted rapidly and communicated with in a direct and effective manner.

A "service provider" is basically anyone with a commercial web site. See (17) and (18) in [1] for the detailed definition.

[1] http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by ams6110 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:43AM (#16858176)
One's address is a matter of public record anyway, so I'm not too concerned about my address appearing in a WHOIS. Phone number, at worst you get some spam calls, but I don't answer numbers I don't recognize so it's of low concern.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by jiveturkey on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @12:51PM (#16860047)
Why do people always over-personalize issues like this. It isn't about you. (It doesn't affect me either, but likewise it isn't about me.)

In many countries, one's address is in fact not a matter of public record. For example, in China.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by joejoebob on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @02:08PM (#16860821)
Wait, I thought everyone lived in the US?
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by always_good on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:27AM (#16858606)
Lowering the bar of getting your name + address + phone number just lowers the bar for social engineering.

It does you zero favors.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by geofft on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @03:43PM (#16861645)
> One's address is a matter of public record anyway

Can you clarify what jurisdiction you mean? In the United States, this isn't true - there are certain (admittedly common) things that generate public records with your address, such as buying a house or (in some areas) registering to vote. (In other areas, voter registration databases are technically not public, but volunteers on any political campaign have access.)

However, if you're not registered to vote and you're renting an apartment, there isn't any real reason why your address would be a public record.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by Magnets on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:02AM (#16858359)
Personal addresses are not public record in the UK for the vast majority of people, and neither are phone numbers
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by ams6110 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:04AM (#16858375)
You don't have phone directories?
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by nocobot on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:18AM (#16859100)
In Germany you can choose to not be listed in those, I assume it's the same in the UK .
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by Angostura on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @03:42PM (#16861628)
YOu can opt out and many people do (ex-directory)
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by return1 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @01:51PM (#16860638)
you mean, in the US you can't opt out of them?
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by ghaff on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @05:41PM (#16862558)
When everyone had landlines, I believe you could get an unlisted number for a fee. Very few did AFAIK.

There is no white pages for cellphones but I still get junk calls anyway.

Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by pjc50 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @03:41PM (#16861625)
A majority of people are on the open electoral register.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by noja on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @03:45PM (#16861657)
Is that publicly searchable and re-indexed by third parties in other countries?
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by pjc50 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:44PM (#16862146)
It's not publicly searchable, but third parties can just buy a copy. https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/electoral-register/
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by noja on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:54PM (#16862228)
So that's not the same thing then is it?
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by merinowool on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:11AM (#16857913)
What about company officer data that is personal information?
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by yummybear on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:29AM (#16858043)
So nefarious entities would just have an employee or owner register the domains personally.
Re:Whois public database is in breach of GDPR, according to ... by roymckenzie on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:55PM (#16862238)
"Corporations are people, my friend."