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Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by jhack on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:35PM (#16025622)
> It took too much trouble and too long for it to happen, but Apple is stepping up and doing the right thing.

The right thing would have been for Apple to either stop this behaviour or give users the option (retain performance or retain battery life). They're doing neither.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by askafriend on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:38PM (#16025648)
I disagree. I think they're doing the right thing here.

Most users shouldn't need to manage their battery performance actively at all. What's next? Users should manage their own RAM usage? Absolutely not.

They're giving away batteries for free, and giving users more visibility into the health of their battery in an upcoming update. That's the right thing.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by blensor on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:41PM (#16025679)
So you think a Popup

"Hey you're battery is going bad. Do you want to [keep the performance] or [save the battery life]?"

Would be too much??

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by mikeash on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:46PM (#16025719)
It’s not about battery life. It’s about not pulling so much current that it suddenly shuts down the entire device. Why do so many people think this is just about making a charge last longer?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by PhasmaFelis on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:37PM (#16026104)
The hardware/software behavior could be 100% justified and it still wouldn't excuse the fact that they've hidden it all this time, driving millions of people to buy new phones when they really just needed a new battery.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by mikeash on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:53PM (#16026221)
I completely agree, I just want criticism to rest on the facts. There’s far too much useless noise because of this misunderstanding.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by colejohnson66 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:00PM (#16025846)
Because it fits their biases better. Simple as that.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by blensor on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:41PM (#16026137)
No. Because it is still about battery life. If it were only about the spurious shutdown then the throttling would happen once in a while, but the reports are about long lasting performance reductions, sometimes down to 50%.

If the battery is in a state where the only solution to prevent sudden shutdowns is to continuosly throttle the system to 50% then my hardware is seriously degraded and someome REALLY needs to tell me that.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by j_coder on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:39PM (#16026115)
It is about battery life. This is how the battery should be measured: 100% -> Doesn't charge more 0% -> Do no provide enough voltage/current for safe operation at current power mode.

At 5% the phone could switch (configurable) to extended battery mode (low power mode) and alert the user.

As the battery ages the user will notice better a faster battery discharge (from 100% to 0%) and not the performance slowdown.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by garmaine on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:46PM (#16027350)
Your demonstrating the same ignorance the post you’re replying to is complaining about. It is not physically possible for the phone to draw sufficient power off a degraded battery to power it in high performance modes. The battery just doesn’t provide enough electrical current. Apple isn’t stepping back performance on degraded batteries to keep battery life. They are doing it to keep peak current draws at a level the battery can support so that the phone doesn’t hard shutoff when it is receiving insufficient power.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by ezioamf on Thursday December 28, 2017 @11:47PM (#16027610)
I think you don’t read the comment. If the battery do not have enough power the level would be 0%. The time from 100%(plugged in) to 0% will depend on how degraded is the battery. It is not difficult to understand. You are repeating Apple excuses. Mobile phones had been dealing with degrading batteries for a long time.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by garmaine on Friday December 29, 2017 @02:17AM (#16028179)
That’s not how batteries work. Degration over time causes a battery to not just store less total capacity on a “full” charge, but also to output less current at the required voltage. The latter is what is preventing the phone from operating under a full load at peak performance without a hard shut off.

The issue is the device shutting off while there is still charge on the battery, not the battery reaching 0% faster.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by ezioamf on Friday December 29, 2017 @02:39AM (#16028254)
To be clear: 0% would be when current voltage or current mAh level is bellow what the phone needs to operate at maximum capacity.

“Voltage and mAh are two different, but interrelated, things. voltage is a measure of the electrical power a battery can deliver, while mAH (milli-Amp hours) is a measure of how long the battery will maintain usable voltage at a given output current.” https://www.quora.com/How-much-mAh-will-equal-to-1-v

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by j_coder on Friday December 29, 2017 @03:50PM (#16031890)
It is the opposite. Batteries degradation acts as an internal resistance at rest (Rd) that increases over time. There is a second resistance (Rc) that increases as you discharge the battery. As you draw current (I) from the battery the nominal voltage decreases according to Omhs law V = Vn - I*(Rd + Rc).

You can plot different voltage charts as the battery discharges at different stages of degradation (increased Rb). As you know the peak current that phone drains at maximum load you know the minimum voltage it requires to operate. At this minimum voltage you show 0% (or a little higher so the phone can have enough power to gracefully shutdown).

What Apple is doing is slowing down the processor so it drains a smaller current reducing the minimum voltage the phone needs to operate extending the battery life (that also measures the time between 100% to 0%). This way you don't complain that an one year old phone battery is discharging too fast probably because of battery fault or wrong specification. There also a good side effect for Apple of decreased performance perception that induces to premature phone upgrades.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by eh78ssxv2f on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:20PM (#16025995)
I think the question is:

"Hey you're battery is going bad. Do you want to [keep the performance] or [shutdown the phone]?"

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by astrange on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:04PM (#16026301)
You'd never want an instantaneous shutoff of your phone, which is what you'd get from a brownout. That's just asking for data corruption.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by stouset on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:52PM (#16027387)
Multiply this idea times the six thousand other locations people think this should be done and you suddenly get an frustratingly unusable device.

Everyone gets upset that their pet setting isn't available, but nobody stops to think about the consequences of having everyone else's pet setting available.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by blensor on Friday December 29, 2017 @04:02AM (#16028486)
And with that comment we are back at the root of the problem. Apple is the one to evaluate what is and what is not important to the user. And many people who are currently upset think they had their priorities wrong.

We can argue all day long what is and what really isn't important. The fact is they decided it isn't and the backlash showed quite strongly that it was wrong.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by stouset on Friday December 29, 2017 @12:59PM (#16030767)
> The backlash showed quite strongly that it was wrong.

What backlash? This same scenario seems to play out practically every month: Apple does something that generates tons of negative comments from — as far as I can tell — people who don't actually use Apple products (removes the headphone jack, throttles performance for phones with aging batteries, releases phone with minor antenna issue, replaces TouchID with FaceID, the notch on the iPhone X, USB-C MBP, etc.). The next quarter, they announce record sales and continue their absolute domination in terms of both customer satisfaction and profit share in the overall market.

The simple reality is that these things are never as big of an issue as people out for blood make them appear (antenna issue, headphone jack, the Notch), or most consumers actually generally agree with the stance taken by Apple (throttle phones with dying batteries rather than unexpected shutoffs, FaceID).

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by blensor on Friday December 29, 2017 @06:08PM (#16032663)
Don't you think the response from Apple (lowering battery replacement costs, modifying the OS to show the user what is happening) is a clear indicator that they really fid feel a backlash rather than the usual Apple bashing by non Apple customers?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by stouset on Saturday December 30, 2017 @05:04PM (#16037900)
I don't. This is about the smallest possible response you can imagine. If anything it's Apple doubling down on their original decision — they think they made the right call, and they're standing by it, but throwing a bone to customers by offering essentially at-cost battery replacement.

And honestly? I think they made the right call, even if the implementation details were off. Phones shutting off randomly is something that appears common on Android phones but not on iPhones, and throttling them to prevent this was the right decision to make. Warning that this is occurring is something that, in retrospect, was warranted. But it's easy to see how the teams in question for implementing this could have underestimated the performance impact, the scale of how many phones this would affect, or both. And it's easy to see how adding a warning might have been considered a v2 of the feature, whereas v1 was the quick band-aid needed to ship to prevent a problem that might have affected large numbers of phones in the wild.

In my opinion, Apple has so much goodwill built up from making difficult-but-principled decisions, I'm more than happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. If anything, their response reinforces my belief that they thought this was the right decision from the get-go. They didn't roll back the feature as other companies would have done. They stuck by it because it's the right move for the vast majority of their customers.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by JoeAltmaier on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:46PM (#16025718)
Or maybe "How long do you want your battery to last?" Choose 6 hours, or 8, or 12.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by mikeash on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:48PM (#16025725)
“How often do you want your phone to suddenly shut off without warning?” [Never] [Sometimes] [Often]
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by oneeyedpigeon on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:52PM (#16026216)
Do we actually know the numbers (e.g. battery life and expected number of shutdowns) required to make any of these points more than moot? Because there are definitely values that would win hands-down for either side.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by mikeash on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:55PM (#16026246)
I don’t think we have any numbers, but the sudden shutdown problem was pretty frequent, enough that Apple issued a recall for one model and a lot of people saw it happen.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by PacketPaul on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:40PM (#16025662)
The batteries are not free. How about a user replaceable battery design?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by looiid on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:45PM (#16025710)
The battery is user replaceable. If a minimum wage earner in the mall can do it with a few basic tools it isn’t that difficult.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by scarface74 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:30PM (#16026055)
If replacing the battery voids the warranty, that doesn't count as 'user replaceable' in my book.

If the phone is under warranty, why wouldn't you take it to Apple and let them replace it for free?

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by oneeyedpigeon on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:24PM (#16026013)
If replacing the battery voids the warranty, that doesn't count as 'user replaceable' in my book.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by MBCook on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:37PM (#16026470)
If the phone is in warranty then they’ll take care of it for you. If it’s out of warranty then it doesn’t matter.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by goialoq on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:23PM (#16026012)
How do you know the wage for battery replacement?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:43PM (#16025687)
The trade-offs that come with that would completely destroy everything that makes iPhones great.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by megaman22 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:55PM (#16025792)
It was pretty fantastic on the Samsung hardware that was contemporaneous with many iPhone designs.

Sadly the Galaxies have jumped on that bandwagon.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:56PM (#16025806)
Do you ever wonder if there's a reason why that's the case?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by megaman22 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:03PM (#16025868)
I'm sure it's cheaper to solder it in, and you don't have to make the components sturdy enough to stand up to repeated assembly and dissassembly.

I still hate it. It was nice to be able to have a stack of charged batteries and not worry about being away from an outlet for three or four days. Especially with a phone that had its USB port melted by a shoddy cable.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:05PM (#16025884)
I don't think it's just about it being cheap; I think it's about literally making some sizes and configurations of phones work.

If you look at where the battery is currently (https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/2oa2QHEoq4Ke16su.m...) there's no way to make the battery accessible without letting you easily open the entire case.

It's just a trade-off, and a replacable battery isn't worth the trade-offs. I 100% agree with Apple on this.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by xbkingx on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:30PM (#16027283)
Except that's exactly how Android phones solved that problem - removable backs. Want a bigger battery? Get one that comes with a bigger back plate, like the Galaxy S5 had. Also, before anyone mentions it, you can do this and still have an IP67 rating.

Apple has teams of engineers working on marginally different hues of silver/gray. They can spare a few to figure out a case lock mechanism that doesn't detract from aesthetics. For example, you still need a SIM tray, so hide the latch to release the edge in there. They could be crazy and follow the Android phones that use a combo sim and SD card tray to allow Apple users to add more storage, but then they couldn't charge a 500% mark up on 128GB of flash memory.

I don't understand people that give Apple a pass on clearly bad decisions that could be remedied by a simple 'Advanced' section in the settings or an almost imperceptible compromise on aesthetics (at least way less perceptible than a monster screen notch or the iTumor case).

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by MBCook on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:38PM (#16026481)
Which all of a sudden makes it EXTREMELY hard to waterproof compared to what you’re working on right now, which was a big win on the 6S and seven.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by xbkingx on Friday December 29, 2017 @12:49AM (#16027859)
Galaxy S5 was waterproof with a removable back. All the current waterproof phones have SIM card trays, mic holes, cord connectors, speakers, etc, so it might not be as 'extreme' as you're thinking. Just need a continuous rubber gasket and a tight fit. Of course making your phone out of materials that bend or shatter instead of flexing becomes a bigger problem, especially since the former offers no practical benefit beyond 'feel'.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by throwanem on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:54PM (#16026236)
"My USB port is melted and unusable but I don't want to replace it" is a real corner case in hardware design, don't you think?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by megaman22 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @09:30PM (#16027065)
Not everybody can afford to just go buy a new phone when some minor component fails. With replacable batteries, a busted usb port was an annoyance, but without, it makes an expensive and otherwise functional piece of technology into a paperweight.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by throwanem on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:02PM (#16027176)
Sure. But I had more in mind replacing the USB daughterboard or if necessary the mainboard, rather than the whole phone. Granted, that's still not necessarily cheap, but I'd be surprised to learn it cost significantly more than a stack of spare batteries...
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by jhack on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:46PM (#16025715)
Maybe if they made their iPhones that fraction of a millimetre thicker, they'd have the courage to bring back a headphone jack into their $1000 phones.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:57PM (#16025823)
I know it's not common for people to say this out loud, but I spent $1200 on an iPhone last month, and

a. I don't care about a headphone jack, at all; I use Airpods and the experience is phenomenal

b. Consider me crazy, but I actually like my phones getting smaller and lighter

What if Apple is just making a phone for people like me, and is comfortable with those trade-offs?

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by wwweston on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:06PM (#16026637)
> I don't care about a headphone jack, at all

Does "works for me" work for you as a reason for closing a software ticket?

Built-in speakers and bluetooth are probably the most common audio output cases for me, and I suspect it's that way for most people. It's totally fine and probably a good idea to recognize that and improve the experience on that front.

But complicating corner cases are a definite reality. If you're someone who was treating your iPhone as a digital musical instrument, for example, bluetooth's latency probably makes it a no go for you. But of course, that's too niche, not a market that Apple does or should have to care about, those people should be buying more complicated niche hardware, right? OK, let's use a "normal consumer" example: if you're someone who likes to connect your iPhone to a car stereo, then maaaybe bluetooth will work out for you, or maybe it's going to be an interesting challenge dealing with the auto/stereo manufacturer's implementation. A 1/8" aux input? Just works. And lets you charge your phone at the same time. Or at least it did.

And before someone says "well, get a dongle" -- a dongle isn't "just works." And that's the thing that bothers me so much about this. It's essentially a user-hostile decision for some portion of users, with no particularly compelling upside for the rest of users... but a thin margin of manufacturing savings and a nice accessories/integration play, I suppose. I fully expect that's just business for many enterprises and "just works" is an acceptable casualty, but I didn't expect it from Apple.

But I do now.

> I actually like my phones getting smaller and lighter

Surely there's a point of not only diminishing but actually vanishing returns. Maybe literally. I recognize that's not going to be the same for everyone, but for me "diminishing" started around the form factor of the original iPhone and I stopped seeing any particular utility in shrinking around the 4s.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @09:17PM (#16027012)
It’s really simple:

1. It’s impossible for Apple to make a device that perfectly pleases everyone

2. Not all feature sets are possible

3. Apple constantly makes decisions about which trade-offs to make

Sometimes you’re just not the target market for a device a company makes. That’s ok, and it isn’t necessarily the fault of the company that such is the case, they just opted for a different feature set than the one you would have preferred.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by wwweston on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:53PM (#16027390)
It's kindof interesting that everything in your comment is true, and yet it's not clear that most of it is relevant in this case.

No one has introduced the standard of perfect pleasure here. The standard that has been introduced is one of both ability and ease in regards to what I'd think anyone would agree is a fundamental feature for a personal mobile device: getting audio to route from that device to common output devices or even arbitrary output devices.

If anyone thinks that standard is unreasonable or even not relevant to Apple's market, I'd be interested to hear about that.

As far as feature sets and tradeoffs go -- yeah, that's an argument that I find compelling in a lot of product discussions. But it really loses its power when we're talking about a feature that's been present in every. smartphone. ever. up until the iPhone 7 and non-Apple smartphones since. It's hard to take seriously the argument that keeping it just wasn't possible. Tradeoffs? Maybe. But good tradeoffs mean you gained something worth as much or more as what you traded away. I haven't come across any credible explanation of compelling features (let alone market-distinguishing features) the iPhone gained that required shedding the 1/8" audio jack. If you're in the know on this one, by all means, explain.

Overall, it seems more credible that maybe, just maybe, Apple underestimated the broad "just works" utility of the feature they removed here and actually got this one wrong. Or, possibly, "just works" wasn't a functioning value when it came to this decision.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by sah2ed on Friday December 29, 2017 @03:53AM (#16028458)
Apple likes to set trends which means doing away with the past. The headphone jack is a 19th century invention and Apple feels that the time has come to make way for new tech as it has always done.

Add to the fact that they obsess over making their devices beautifully engineered by making them slimmer and lighter to increase portability. The more portable your hardware is, the more you are likely to use it and recommend it to others. Portability helps Apple sell more devices. This has been Apple's focus since Job's return.

A few examples:

1. They were one of the first laptop makers to do away with integrated CD/DVD drives because they saw that fewer and fewer people were using them. The tradeoff here is obvious: they figured that Internet speeds would improve to the point that it would eventually replace 4.7GB DVDs as the standard means of distributing software for most of their customers (read: people with high disposable income). This has happened.

2. Apple was the first to ship a mainstream device (iMac) that supported the USB standard (which they didn't invent). USB adoption helped obsolete older tech: serial, parallel and PS/2 ports.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#History

3. The iPhone obsoleted keyboard-centric phone designs from BlackBerry, Nokia, Samsung etc which were widespread prior to 2007 to a more natural touch-centric interface. Apple had previously launched the failed Newton device but this time they made several complementary investments in the user experience that made them feel confident that touch interfaces had matured enough to become mainstream. Remember that the first iPhone didn't even have copy&paste, regardless, their bet against old tech paid off :).

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by CaptSpify on Friday December 29, 2017 @11:44AM (#16030302)
The big difference that you are missing is that those other technologies that they got rid of had ready and working replacements. The headphone jack does not have a ready and working replacement yet.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by sah2ed on Friday December 29, 2017 @12:29PM (#16030559)
So you consider wireless headsets/ear phones utilizing BLE as an unworthy replacement for the headphone jack? That's fine.

I'm not Apple or its representative, merely trying to help the grandparent see why Apple would do what they did.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by CaptSpify on Sunday December 31, 2017 @05:51AM (#16040116)
And I'm just explaining why that is a bullshit. It's clear that the real reason Apple is doing this is to make more money by selling accessories.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by CaptSpify on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:05PM (#16027193)
Theres also nothing wrong with criticizing that decision, especially when they are clearly using it to push you to buy a new device
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by dbcurtis on Friday December 29, 2017 @02:19AM (#16028188)
> If you're someone who was treating your iPhone as a digital musical instrument, for example, bluetooth's latency probably makes it a no go for you.

If you are a musician that can actually hear, Bluetooth headphones of any kind are a non-starter. It is mathematically impossible for BT to have sufficient dynamic range and low enough noise noise floor for classical strings, for instance. Bluetooth sets my teeth on edge.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by matwood on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:22PM (#16026003)
I'm with you. The iPhone X is the best iPhone I've ever used.

The headphone jack uproar was a tempest in a teapot. Apple saw the stats that either a) people use the headphone that come with the phone or b) they upgrade to wireless headphones. The small group of people using expensive wired headphones can afford an additional $7 permanent attachment.

Yes, Apple prioritizes size and design over everything else. Removable batteries add size, weight, and likely impact the water proof ability of the device. Even when I had a phone that could easily swap batteries I never bought additional ones because they were not cheap and would be discarded when I got a new phone.

I'll also say that I'm happy with the change Apple did here. They failed at communicating it, but I have been on the receiving end of an older phone that would shutdown/crash with plenty of battery left, and would have preferred it to slow down so I could at least use it.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by thanatropism on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:12PM (#16026344)
I'm just an anecdote, but I lamented the removal of the headphone jack because it means my 6SE is my last iPhone.

I take pills for attention deficit disorder. I lose stuff. I lose corded and cordless headphones multiple times a month. And hey, I know my inattentiveness to be an annoying end of a spectrum. People have things going on in their lives. Not everyone neatly takes care of their in-separate-ears tiny bluetooth speakers. We're a segment of the market.

They're betting that they can do better without the likes of us -- lose some, earn more from the rest. Maybe their cash position enables them to take such risks.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by EdSharkey on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:07PM (#16026651)
Companies like Apple actually take accessibility really seriously though, which I applaud. That said, there's a pecking order to disabilities that these companies have to service. I can tell you that blindness is top of the heap and cognitive disabilities are bottom of the heap. It's a crummy situation for users like you when a disability doesn't weigh as heavily as the product design goals - grumble, the world is broken.

I imagine a headphone jack must use a lot of space within the case, which creates a lot of hardware design headaches that go beyond waterproofing.

I see some people at my workplace who walk around all day with a full bluetooth headset around their neck (not earbuds, like the big cans type) even when not in use, almost as a fashion accessory or statement. Perhaps you could experiment with those kinds of bluetooth headsets if you upgrade to a new iPhone. Obviously that doesn't solve your headset needs for running though, grumble grumble.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by thanatropism on Saturday December 30, 2017 @05:34AM (#16034684)
There are other smartphone companies, albeit with inferior products, that have models with headphone jacks.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by EdSharkey on Saturday December 30, 2017 @04:38PM (#16037767)
Design is a big priority for all these companies. :shrug:
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @09:19PM (#16027020)
For what it’s worth, the AirPods have “find my AirPods” that will locate them for you in most instances.

I lose stuff too. I just find it eventually.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by kemayo on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:43PM (#16027336)
They do, but it's less helpful than it sounds. It only plays a sound if the AirPods are not in their case. Since I am fantastic at putting them in their case the instant they're not in my ears, I never have a chance to lose mine in a way where this feature would help.

Granted, it's harder to lose the entire case, though it's still small enough and made of slippery plastic that can slide out of pockets if you're unlucky.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Friday December 29, 2017 @12:25AM (#16027766)
If they _are_ in the case you can see the last location they were connected to bluetooth. I've lost and found my whole set several times.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by asendra on Friday December 29, 2017 @02:05AM (#16028133)
I also spent the corresponding amount for an X in my country but,

a. Good luck when you run out of battery on your AirPods, or you loose one, or you forget them etc. It sure is nice to have the flexibility (Not to mention the much higher audio quality with proper iems/headpphones)

b. My X is considerably bigger and specially, heavier than my 6s.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by ceejayoz on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:53PM (#16025775)
Wasn't the point to have better waterproofing? IIRC the keynote mentioned it being the main spot for water intrusion.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by mad182 on Friday December 29, 2017 @02:41AM (#16028258)
I have a waterproof phone with jack.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by jsz0 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @11:19PM (#16027489)
The iPhone X is thicker than previous generation models.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by CaptSpify on Thursday December 28, 2017 @09:59PM (#16027170)
Yeah, why should we let users manage the devices they own? That'd be absurd!

/s

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by sjrd on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:41PM (#16025673)
Ah, so you prefer your phone just shutting down unexpectedly when you open your picture-taking app, update the public transportation app to buy a ticket because they updated the server, or exit the metro into the freezing cold of winter? Right.

Not an Apple customer (never was, probably never will), I use a Samsung Android, and I wish my phone were doing that performance limitation thing, because I do feel the issues caused by unexpected shutdowns on a daily basis. I constantly carry an extra battery to be able to reboot my phone when that happens.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by Woofles on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:57PM (#16025816)
Anecdotal evidence, but my 6s (which I had the battery replaced a year ago under the iPhone 6s battery replacement program) was shutting down just last week when I would walk outside, even if it was at or above 50%.

I'm really interested as to where this issue came from, because before I had the unexpected shutdowns with my 6s that Apple came out and admitted was the battery's fault, I had never had this problem with a previous iPhone (or even in the first 6-9 months that I owned the 6s).

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by MBCook on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:43PM (#16026506)
These kind of things are worse with the temperature is very cold outside. Is that the case for where you are?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by sjy on Thursday December 28, 2017 @11:40PM (#16027573)
I know three Australian iPhone 6 users who had this problem when their phones were exposed to 0 °C on holiday in Europe. I wondered whether batteries sold and used in Australia might have different specs or somehow become accustomed to the higher temperature.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by braderhart on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:55PM (#16026250)
Sounds like very poor design and more dishonesty from Apple.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by wodenokoto on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:41PM (#16025671)
So the right thing is to have phones crash as the battery age?

This is not a question about battery life in terms of how many hours the phone can run. This is a question about the phones ability to draw high amounts of power for short intervals.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by kleptco on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:13PM (#16025947)
The right thing is that people who replaced their deliberately slowed down iPhones with new iPhones because of their ignorance about what Apple had done, should have an appropriate remedy not contained in this "we're sorry if you didn't understand that we care a lot about you" press release. It doesn't matter anyway, even though millions of similar batteries in Android phones apparently didn't require a similar secret performance degradation, we are still a long way from reaching the depths that Apple can go to before Apple fans will seriously consider an alternative.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by rlanday on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:31PM (#16026439)
> even though millions of similar batteries in Android phones apparently didn't require a similar secret performance degradation

You know for sure how the power-management code works in every Android device ever produced?

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by JesseObrien on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:29PM (#16026797)
> we are still a long way from reaching the depths that Apple can go to before Apple fans will seriously consider an alternative.

You're literally proving the point here. There's much, much more transparency on the Android side of things. Custom ROMs and the stock Google Android images have been combed over for almost the last decade by loads of different individuals and groups around the world. Now, we surely don't control the Samsung-esque bloatware that they slap on top of stock Android, but there's absolutely no way there's throttling code that lives in Android that we don't know about yet.

Anecdotal evidence of my own: I have a Nexus 5 that's nearly 5 years old now that my kids use daily. It's using a stock Lineage ROM. The battery certainly isn't the best anymore, but the phone doesn't feel different than the day I bought it, and it doesn't crash.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by greedo on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:53PM (#16026904)
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by kleptco on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:09PM (#16027209)
Good point, must of helped Google sell another dozen of them. Thats what makes this whole thing creepy, how many iPhones did this scheme sell for Apple - I imagine a non-trivial number.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by bb88 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:45PM (#16026175)
nitpick: "ignorance" puts the blame on the consumer -- in this case it's not their fault.

> should have an appropriate remedy

I think a lawsuit is appropriate.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by kryptiskt on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:59PM (#16026276)
As the ultimate cause is a bad design where they have underprovisioned the battery with little margin for degradation, presumably in order to fit it into a thinner phone, it becomes Apple to handle the issue in a transparent way. The right action for Apple then is not to degrade the performance to hide the problem under the rug, but to make it clear to the customer how they can have the phone serviced in order to make it work like before.

Apple is so lucky that this got noticed and they got called on it. The alternative is that millions of customers would continue to get an inexplicably bad user experience, which would chip away on their reputation in a more indirect but not less dangerous way than facing the press.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by compiler-guy on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:37PM (#16026472)
The battery is not underprovisioned. Every single battery starts to go bad eventually. The question is what to do when it does.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by kryptiskt on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:27PM (#16027277)
Of course it is, if it can't deliver the current the phone requires after some usage it's not fit for purpose. It's BECAUSE every single battery starts to go bad that they should have put in a battery that will work after a couple of years of degradation.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by mlindner on Friday December 29, 2017 @12:50AM (#16027862)
Lol. You can't just violate battery physics because you want it to be so.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by imtringued on Friday December 29, 2017 @08:26AM (#16029353)
Older phones manage to violate those just fine.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by PhasmaFelis on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:44PM (#16026162)
The right thing is to be honest with users about the state of their equipment. Many, many people shelled out to replace their "dying" phone when all they really needed was a new battery. I don't believe that Apple didn't intend that.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by stouset on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:58PM (#16027405)
Have you never worked at a large organization? Things that appear like a good idea locally within an organization can easily be bad decisions at the scale of the company as a whole. It's not like Tim Cook or higher-ups personally had any idea that this was being done, much less asked for it to happen — this was likely just one of a million mini-features that team within Apple ship every release. One that was even likely well-intentioned, if poorly thought-out.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by freedomben on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:31PM (#16026061)
I don't understand the opposition to giving the customer a choice. If they prefer a crashing but faster phone, what do you or Apple care? The default setting can be to slow down, then if someone cares enough they can change it. This seems not only reasonable, but optimal.

But then again, I'm on Android now precisely because of this attitude of hiding information and configuration abilities (I hate paternalism), so I'm not the target market.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by gordyf on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:30PM (#16026430)
You really want Apple to put a “Crash: on/off” checkbox in Settings?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by freedomben on Thursday December 28, 2017 @09:09PM (#16026975)
Lol yes, it should totally say "crash" and then "true/false". In fact the user should have to type the string "true" or "false" in a text box rather than using a switch or check box.

Fallacies involved in your response: strawman and false dichotomy.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by sbuk on Friday December 29, 2017 @10:15AM (#16029806)
For many, choice is a burden, especially technical choice.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by ihuman on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:40PM (#16025661)
I don't think Apple would ever introduce a switch that could allow the phone to randomly power down.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by bytecodes on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:47PM (#16025722)
Well, there is a button that turns the phone off. The angry users could use that and experience the same thing.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by evilduck on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:49PM (#16025739)
Correction, it's "retain performance and experience random shutdowns or, reduce performance and avoid random shutdowns". You can't choose performance 100% of the time without compromise on battery power. That goes for literally any device.

After they figured out that it's a current draw issue with old batteries that caused it, they would _never_ give you a checkbox option to allow unexpected shutdowns.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by LoSboccacc on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:45PM (#16025711)
The rigt thing would have been a model recall changing the battery with something that has enough voltage margin to keep the cpu running after the usual degradation for at least the 500 cycles it’s rated for

This is an engineering issue on evaluating margins properly repackaged as “we’re improving battery life” to hide stability issue caused by bad assumptions on cpu stability across voltage ranges.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by tigershark on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:19PM (#16025986)
3.3 years on the iPhone 6 charging it once a day is 1000 cycles, well above 500..
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by goialoq on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:26PM (#16026026)
Cycles are floats, not integers. It's only a full cycle if the battery is discharged very deeply.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_li...

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by freedomben on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:04PM (#16026302)
Fascinating. Some tidbits to save others time:

> The worst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures.

> Avoid so-called ultra-fast chargers that claim to fully charge Li-ion in less than one hour.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by LoSboccacc on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:25PM (#16026019)
Because you’re being throttled, duh
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by tigershark on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:24PM (#16026405)
Better being throttled than having to endure boot loops, daily crashes and a battery dead at 5 pm honestly..
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by LoSboccacc on Friday December 29, 2017 @03:28AM (#16028385)
Better having faulty hardware replaced tbh. Especially expensive hardware.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by pishpash on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:52PM (#16025770)
Exactly, this does nothing to prevent Apple from shoving a dinky battery in future phones and selling $99 annual battery replacements (after 2018). Battery itself costs nothing. $29 may be at-cost for labor. $99 is a large margin.