News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by PacketPaul on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:40PM (#16025662)
The batteries are not free. How about a user replaceable battery design?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by looiid on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:45PM (#16025710)
The battery is user replaceable. If a minimum wage earner in the mall can do it with a few basic tools it isn’t that difficult.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by scarface74 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:30PM (#16026055)
If replacing the battery voids the warranty, that doesn't count as 'user replaceable' in my book.

If the phone is under warranty, why wouldn't you take it to Apple and let them replace it for free?

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by oneeyedpigeon on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:24PM (#16026013)
If replacing the battery voids the warranty, that doesn't count as 'user replaceable' in my book.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by MBCook on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:37PM (#16026470)
If the phone is in warranty then they’ll take care of it for you. If it’s out of warranty then it doesn’t matter.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by goialoq on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:23PM (#16026012)
How do you know the wage for battery replacement?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:43PM (#16025687)
The trade-offs that come with that would completely destroy everything that makes iPhones great.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by megaman22 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:55PM (#16025792)
It was pretty fantastic on the Samsung hardware that was contemporaneous with many iPhone designs.

Sadly the Galaxies have jumped on that bandwagon.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:56PM (#16025806)
Do you ever wonder if there's a reason why that's the case?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by megaman22 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:03PM (#16025868)
I'm sure it's cheaper to solder it in, and you don't have to make the components sturdy enough to stand up to repeated assembly and dissassembly.

I still hate it. It was nice to be able to have a stack of charged batteries and not worry about being away from an outlet for three or four days. Especially with a phone that had its USB port melted by a shoddy cable.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:05PM (#16025884)
I don't think it's just about it being cheap; I think it's about literally making some sizes and configurations of phones work.

If you look at where the battery is currently (https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/2oa2QHEoq4Ke16su.m...) there's no way to make the battery accessible without letting you easily open the entire case.

It's just a trade-off, and a replacable battery isn't worth the trade-offs. I 100% agree with Apple on this.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by xbkingx on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:30PM (#16027283)
Except that's exactly how Android phones solved that problem - removable backs. Want a bigger battery? Get one that comes with a bigger back plate, like the Galaxy S5 had. Also, before anyone mentions it, you can do this and still have an IP67 rating.

Apple has teams of engineers working on marginally different hues of silver/gray. They can spare a few to figure out a case lock mechanism that doesn't detract from aesthetics. For example, you still need a SIM tray, so hide the latch to release the edge in there. They could be crazy and follow the Android phones that use a combo sim and SD card tray to allow Apple users to add more storage, but then they couldn't charge a 500% mark up on 128GB of flash memory.

I don't understand people that give Apple a pass on clearly bad decisions that could be remedied by a simple 'Advanced' section in the settings or an almost imperceptible compromise on aesthetics (at least way less perceptible than a monster screen notch or the iTumor case).

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by MBCook on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:38PM (#16026481)
Which all of a sudden makes it EXTREMELY hard to waterproof compared to what you’re working on right now, which was a big win on the 6S and seven.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by xbkingx on Friday December 29, 2017 @12:49AM (#16027859)
Galaxy S5 was waterproof with a removable back. All the current waterproof phones have SIM card trays, mic holes, cord connectors, speakers, etc, so it might not be as 'extreme' as you're thinking. Just need a continuous rubber gasket and a tight fit. Of course making your phone out of materials that bend or shatter instead of flexing becomes a bigger problem, especially since the former offers no practical benefit beyond 'feel'.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by throwanem on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:54PM (#16026236)
"My USB port is melted and unusable but I don't want to replace it" is a real corner case in hardware design, don't you think?
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by megaman22 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @09:30PM (#16027065)
Not everybody can afford to just go buy a new phone when some minor component fails. With replacable batteries, a busted usb port was an annoyance, but without, it makes an expensive and otherwise functional piece of technology into a paperweight.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by throwanem on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:02PM (#16027176)
Sure. But I had more in mind replacing the USB daughterboard or if necessary the mainboard, rather than the whole phone. Granted, that's still not necessarily cheap, but I'd be surprised to learn it cost significantly more than a stack of spare batteries...
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by jhack on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:46PM (#16025715)
Maybe if they made their iPhones that fraction of a millimetre thicker, they'd have the courage to bring back a headphone jack into their $1000 phones.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:57PM (#16025823)
I know it's not common for people to say this out loud, but I spent $1200 on an iPhone last month, and

a. I don't care about a headphone jack, at all; I use Airpods and the experience is phenomenal

b. Consider me crazy, but I actually like my phones getting smaller and lighter

What if Apple is just making a phone for people like me, and is comfortable with those trade-offs?

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by wwweston on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:06PM (#16026637)
> I don't care about a headphone jack, at all

Does "works for me" work for you as a reason for closing a software ticket?

Built-in speakers and bluetooth are probably the most common audio output cases for me, and I suspect it's that way for most people. It's totally fine and probably a good idea to recognize that and improve the experience on that front.

But complicating corner cases are a definite reality. If you're someone who was treating your iPhone as a digital musical instrument, for example, bluetooth's latency probably makes it a no go for you. But of course, that's too niche, not a market that Apple does or should have to care about, those people should be buying more complicated niche hardware, right? OK, let's use a "normal consumer" example: if you're someone who likes to connect your iPhone to a car stereo, then maaaybe bluetooth will work out for you, or maybe it's going to be an interesting challenge dealing with the auto/stereo manufacturer's implementation. A 1/8" aux input? Just works. And lets you charge your phone at the same time. Or at least it did.

And before someone says "well, get a dongle" -- a dongle isn't "just works." And that's the thing that bothers me so much about this. It's essentially a user-hostile decision for some portion of users, with no particularly compelling upside for the rest of users... but a thin margin of manufacturing savings and a nice accessories/integration play, I suppose. I fully expect that's just business for many enterprises and "just works" is an acceptable casualty, but I didn't expect it from Apple.

But I do now.

> I actually like my phones getting smaller and lighter

Surely there's a point of not only diminishing but actually vanishing returns. Maybe literally. I recognize that's not going to be the same for everyone, but for me "diminishing" started around the form factor of the original iPhone and I stopped seeing any particular utility in shrinking around the 4s.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @09:17PM (#16027012)
It’s really simple:

1. It’s impossible for Apple to make a device that perfectly pleases everyone

2. Not all feature sets are possible

3. Apple constantly makes decisions about which trade-offs to make

Sometimes you’re just not the target market for a device a company makes. That’s ok, and it isn’t necessarily the fault of the company that such is the case, they just opted for a different feature set than the one you would have preferred.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by wwweston on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:53PM (#16027390)
It's kindof interesting that everything in your comment is true, and yet it's not clear that most of it is relevant in this case.

No one has introduced the standard of perfect pleasure here. The standard that has been introduced is one of both ability and ease in regards to what I'd think anyone would agree is a fundamental feature for a personal mobile device: getting audio to route from that device to common output devices or even arbitrary output devices.

If anyone thinks that standard is unreasonable or even not relevant to Apple's market, I'd be interested to hear about that.

As far as feature sets and tradeoffs go -- yeah, that's an argument that I find compelling in a lot of product discussions. But it really loses its power when we're talking about a feature that's been present in every. smartphone. ever. up until the iPhone 7 and non-Apple smartphones since. It's hard to take seriously the argument that keeping it just wasn't possible. Tradeoffs? Maybe. But good tradeoffs mean you gained something worth as much or more as what you traded away. I haven't come across any credible explanation of compelling features (let alone market-distinguishing features) the iPhone gained that required shedding the 1/8" audio jack. If you're in the know on this one, by all means, explain.

Overall, it seems more credible that maybe, just maybe, Apple underestimated the broad "just works" utility of the feature they removed here and actually got this one wrong. Or, possibly, "just works" wasn't a functioning value when it came to this decision.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by sah2ed on Friday December 29, 2017 @03:53AM (#16028458)
Apple likes to set trends which means doing away with the past. The headphone jack is a 19th century invention and Apple feels that the time has come to make way for new tech as it has always done.

Add to the fact that they obsess over making their devices beautifully engineered by making them slimmer and lighter to increase portability. The more portable your hardware is, the more you are likely to use it and recommend it to others. Portability helps Apple sell more devices. This has been Apple's focus since Job's return.

A few examples:

1. They were one of the first laptop makers to do away with integrated CD/DVD drives because they saw that fewer and fewer people were using them. The tradeoff here is obvious: they figured that Internet speeds would improve to the point that it would eventually replace 4.7GB DVDs as the standard means of distributing software for most of their customers (read: people with high disposable income). This has happened.

2. Apple was the first to ship a mainstream device (iMac) that supported the USB standard (which they didn't invent). USB adoption helped obsolete older tech: serial, parallel and PS/2 ports.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#History

3. The iPhone obsoleted keyboard-centric phone designs from BlackBerry, Nokia, Samsung etc which were widespread prior to 2007 to a more natural touch-centric interface. Apple had previously launched the failed Newton device but this time they made several complementary investments in the user experience that made them feel confident that touch interfaces had matured enough to become mainstream. Remember that the first iPhone didn't even have copy&paste, regardless, their bet against old tech paid off :).

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by CaptSpify on Friday December 29, 2017 @11:44AM (#16030302)
The big difference that you are missing is that those other technologies that they got rid of had ready and working replacements. The headphone jack does not have a ready and working replacement yet.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by sah2ed on Friday December 29, 2017 @12:29PM (#16030559)
So you consider wireless headsets/ear phones utilizing BLE as an unworthy replacement for the headphone jack? That's fine.

I'm not Apple or its representative, merely trying to help the grandparent see why Apple would do what they did.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by CaptSpify on Sunday December 31, 2017 @05:51AM (#16040116)
And I'm just explaining why that is a bullshit. It's clear that the real reason Apple is doing this is to make more money by selling accessories.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by CaptSpify on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:05PM (#16027193)
Theres also nothing wrong with criticizing that decision, especially when they are clearly using it to push you to buy a new device
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by dbcurtis on Friday December 29, 2017 @02:19AM (#16028188)
> If you're someone who was treating your iPhone as a digital musical instrument, for example, bluetooth's latency probably makes it a no go for you.

If you are a musician that can actually hear, Bluetooth headphones of any kind are a non-starter. It is mathematically impossible for BT to have sufficient dynamic range and low enough noise noise floor for classical strings, for instance. Bluetooth sets my teeth on edge.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by matwood on Thursday December 28, 2017 @06:22PM (#16026003)
I'm with you. The iPhone X is the best iPhone I've ever used.

The headphone jack uproar was a tempest in a teapot. Apple saw the stats that either a) people use the headphone that come with the phone or b) they upgrade to wireless headphones. The small group of people using expensive wired headphones can afford an additional $7 permanent attachment.

Yes, Apple prioritizes size and design over everything else. Removable batteries add size, weight, and likely impact the water proof ability of the device. Even when I had a phone that could easily swap batteries I never bought additional ones because they were not cheap and would be discarded when I got a new phone.

I'll also say that I'm happy with the change Apple did here. They failed at communicating it, but I have been on the receiving end of an older phone that would shutdown/crash with plenty of battery left, and would have preferred it to slow down so I could at least use it.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by thanatropism on Thursday December 28, 2017 @07:12PM (#16026344)
I'm just an anecdote, but I lamented the removal of the headphone jack because it means my 6SE is my last iPhone.

I take pills for attention deficit disorder. I lose stuff. I lose corded and cordless headphones multiple times a month. And hey, I know my inattentiveness to be an annoying end of a spectrum. People have things going on in their lives. Not everyone neatly takes care of their in-separate-ears tiny bluetooth speakers. We're a segment of the market.

They're betting that they can do better without the likes of us -- lose some, earn more from the rest. Maybe their cash position enables them to take such risks.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by EdSharkey on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:07PM (#16026651)
Companies like Apple actually take accessibility really seriously though, which I applaud. That said, there's a pecking order to disabilities that these companies have to service. I can tell you that blindness is top of the heap and cognitive disabilities are bottom of the heap. It's a crummy situation for users like you when a disability doesn't weigh as heavily as the product design goals - grumble, the world is broken.

I imagine a headphone jack must use a lot of space within the case, which creates a lot of hardware design headaches that go beyond waterproofing.

I see some people at my workplace who walk around all day with a full bluetooth headset around their neck (not earbuds, like the big cans type) even when not in use, almost as a fashion accessory or statement. Perhaps you could experiment with those kinds of bluetooth headsets if you upgrade to a new iPhone. Obviously that doesn't solve your headset needs for running though, grumble grumble.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by thanatropism on Saturday December 30, 2017 @05:34AM (#16034684)
There are other smartphone companies, albeit with inferior products, that have models with headphone jacks.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by EdSharkey on Saturday December 30, 2017 @04:38PM (#16037767)
Design is a big priority for all these companies. :shrug:
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Thursday December 28, 2017 @09:19PM (#16027020)
For what it’s worth, the AirPods have “find my AirPods” that will locate them for you in most instances.

I lose stuff too. I just find it eventually.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by kemayo on Thursday December 28, 2017 @10:43PM (#16027336)
They do, but it's less helpful than it sounds. It only plays a sound if the AirPods are not in their case. Since I am fantastic at putting them in their case the instant they're not in my ears, I never have a chance to lose mine in a way where this feature would help.

Granted, it's harder to lose the entire case, though it's still small enough and made of slippery plastic that can slide out of pockets if you're unlucky.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by austenallred on Friday December 29, 2017 @12:25AM (#16027766)
If they _are_ in the case you can see the last location they were connected to bluetooth. I've lost and found my whole set several times.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by asendra on Friday December 29, 2017 @02:05AM (#16028133)
I also spent the corresponding amount for an X in my country but,

a. Good luck when you run out of battery on your AirPods, or you loose one, or you forget them etc. It sure is nice to have the flexibility (Not to mention the much higher audio quality with proper iems/headpphones)

b. My X is considerably bigger and specially, heavier than my 6s.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by ceejayoz on Thursday December 28, 2017 @05:53PM (#16025775)
Wasn't the point to have better waterproofing? IIRC the keynote mentioned it being the main spot for water intrusion.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by mad182 on Friday December 29, 2017 @02:41AM (#16028258)
I have a waterproof phone with jack.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by jsz0 on Thursday December 28, 2017 @11:19PM (#16027489)
The iPhone X is thicker than previous generation models.