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Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by patejam on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:17PM (#14500905)
By far the best article I've seen to supplement this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2190306/why-alex-honnolds-free...

As a climber, there are very few people that I trust to have a more useful opinion on all this than Tommy Caldwell, a close friend and long time climbing partner of Honnold. It's so out there for most people that most jump to conclusions without proper knowledge of the subject.

Caldwell is in an interesting position of having to balance supporting his friend, and trying to get over the fact that he very well could die doing these attempts. His article does a great job expressing this.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by kbenson on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:41PM (#14502820)
It’s all too easy for headlines about climbing to lean on clichés about the climbers themselves—that these people are daredevils, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies. But to most climbers, nothing is quicker to trigger the gag reflex. Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them. I don’t claim to understand the inner workings of Alex’s mind, but I know one thing for certain: Alex climbs to live, not to cheat death.

Can someone help me understand this? How is doing something without safety equipment that you can do with with safety equipment climbing to live, but not about cheating death? What is the point of foregoing safety if not to somehow eke something out of the increased danger, whether it be adrenaline, or a period of increased focus, or fame?

If it's not about someone being addicted to adrenaline or looking for fame, then I just don't understand it. At all. As in it's so foreign to me that I can't even begin to understand it.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by hluska on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @11:01PM (#14503404)
I have a couple of things that might help you a bit:

1. Alex Honnold's brain is atypical. His amygdala simply does not respond to stimuli the way that it does in most people. To learn more, read this (excellent) article:

http://nautil.us/issue/39/sport/the-strange-brain-of-the-wor...

2. While I am (at best) a mediocre climber, the section you quoted rings true to me, particularly this section - "Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them." There is something incredibly natural and sensual about climbing on rock that I can't describe without sounding like I'm talking about sex. And...that's traditionally where people tell me to give them my keys because I've had too much to drink. :)

3. Climbing is a deeply meditative activity, particularly when you get into a place where each movement flows into the next. When I am there, my mind shuts down and it is just a rock and me doing the most natural thing that I have ever found (see #2). That flow is deeply beautiful, but when you climb with ropes, you have to be in near constant contact with your belay partner. When I am with my regular belay partner, it interrupts that flow. When I am with a new belay partner, I never get close to it.

I suspect that if my amygdala worked like his, I would free solo simply to avoid having to communicate with a belay partner.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by test1235 on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:01AM (#14504690)
Andy Kirkpatrick is another climber who solos (but aid climbs, not free solo) and mentions a few times in his books that he does so because he doesn't want to deal with the faff of other people.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by forestriver on Monday June 12, 2017 @10:19PM (#14542494)
In response...

1. I wonder if amygdala responses in meditators would be similar. The Nautilus article mentions the control of his prefrontal cortex as a possible way he mediates the amygdala's response, and meditation often shows modulation in PFC activity. As a meditator, I also have a strange lack of fear response—for example, it's almost impossible to startle me.

2,3 I have only climbed a few times, and I too felt an unspeakable relationship with the rock itself that I have rarely felt while doing anything. The closest I can relate it to is indeed a deep meditative state, but one that comes with motion. Totally understand these points.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by bhandziuk on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @04:03PM (#14509447)
I heard Alex speak once and he said that if he's in the position of having an adrenaline rush while climbing something has gone wrong. He needs to be calm and calculating to make every move right.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by bigato on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @11:49AM (#14507365)
What is the personality test that this article about Alex mentions? The one that generated that bar graph. I'd like to take it myself.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by zzalpha on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:05PM (#14508009)
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by bigato on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:26PM (#14508183)
Well thank you, but the test in that link doesn't work. Anyway, I searched for some high sensation seekers tests, but the graph in the article has far more detailed results than any test I could find. It measures several interesting personality traits.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by gaia on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @08:26PM (#14510982)
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by bigato on Thursday June 08, 2017 @07:36AM (#14513379)
The test doesn't
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by gaia on Thursday June 08, 2017 @01:35PM (#14515692)
You're right. I found the full test and scoring table at http://wsm.wsu.edu/s/we.php?id=200
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by tvelichkov on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @02:06AM (#14504060)
I think I understand you, its like having a sex with or w/o a condom ;)
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by vanderZwan on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @03:41AM (#14504377)
I think more like with or without the neighbours knocking on the walls telling you to keep it down
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by idlewords on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @10:47AM (#14506868)
It's like having sex without falling three thousand feet to your death.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by samstave on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @11:41AM (#14507304)
It would have also been amazing if he free-claimed up with a chute on his back and as he reached the peak, based off it back to the bottom!
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by hluska on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:40PM (#14507818)
Had Dean Potter lived a little longer, I suspect that he would have tried that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Potter

https://www.outsideonline.com/1981591/dean-potter-killed-bas...

Edit -- Added a second, better link.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by justinator on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:10PM (#14508043)
Dean Potter did do that, off a route of the Eiger. He called it, "freeBASE"

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08x/newswire-potter-eiger-fre...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMtxGCSsnaI

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by hluska on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:40PM (#14510084)
I know, but I was replying to a comment about El Capitan. As far as I know, Dean Potter didn't freebase from El Cap.

With that kind of exposure, I'm pretty sure that the Yosemite rangers would have an easy time catching an El Cap freebaser and confiscate all the jumper's gear.

Thanks for the YouTube link! I hadn't seen that before, but holy shit, do I ever miss sharing a planet with someone like Dean Potter.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by justinator on Thursday June 08, 2017 @05:46PM (#14517425)
Yeah, Dean is missed. I don't believe he ever did it on El Cap. either - I sort of wished he did, as it would be an interesting argument/philosophical point FOR "basejumping" within the Park, as it would show an extra level of safety when climbing. His relationship with the rangers within the park must have been interesting, as they certainly knew what he was up to...
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by sillysaurus3 on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @06:39PM (#14510403)
I wanted to know more about Potter's final jump and found this: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/sports/dean-potter-final-...
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by hluska on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @07:34PM (#14510724)
That is an amazing article - thanks for taking the time to find it and sharing the spoils!
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by macscam on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @09:22PM (#14511190)
Also a fucking shitload safer
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by scottcha on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:10PM (#14503186)
I think the main thing you need to realize is that is climbing with ropes there is a lot of overhead involved to do it safely. I'd say about 1/8th of the time is climbing the other 7/8 is spent with the logistics of the rope management, partner management and placing protection in the rock. With free soloing you can focus entirely on the climbing and not on the logistics. I honestly think its more about this focus and flow and less about the cheating death.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by theparanoid on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:03AM (#14504699)
I free solo'ed small stuff, mostly 5.6/5.7. It's a rush, the desire will always be there.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by samstave on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @11:42AM (#14507310)
What's the rating of free solo El Capitan?
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Bartweiss on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:22PM (#14507638)
5.13a, as Honnold did it. There's a route without the dihedral that drops it down to 5.12d, but the rock isn't considered trustworthy anymore.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by basseq on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @03:32PM (#14509231)
For anyone else who has no idea what these 5.x[a-d] numbers mean:

http://outdoorswithdave.com/climbing/climbing-ratings

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by collinmanderson on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @11:27PM (#14511688)
ahh, 5.13 > 5.6. Thanks.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by luca_ing on Thursday June 08, 2017 @11:38AM (#14514923)
I agree.

This is why I prefer bouldering these days.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by js2 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:51PM (#14503341)
The closest analog I can think of is Phillipe Petit's tightrope walk across the twin towers. Petit has similarly said that:

“I am not a death-wish person,” he said to me. “I want to live very old. It is true that death is part of the frame—that it frames such activities as bullfighting and tightrope walking. My world is a dangerous world, sure, but I am very safe in knowing my limits. I am not playing with words when I say I don’t take risks. The danger becomes so narrow that it is a novel companion with whom you travel. It is not an enemy.”

I know this isn't an answer, but if you've never seen the documentary about Petit, "Man on Wire", perhaps it would help to understand the mindset.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jjaredsimpson on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:09PM (#14502971)
You have to embrace the ambiguity in natural languages. Life and death can be simply considered opposites. In this mode of thinking any risky behavior is trading in death at the peril of life.

However you can also imagine a justification along these lines: There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states. Some of these are familiar things like falling in love or having children. These are risks but usually perceived as having obvious upsides. There are also other behaviors like drug use or underground fight clubs which also give access to unique mental states but are usually perceived as too risky to encourage. It's easy to put judge free soloing climbing as something like drug use or bareknuckle boxing. But try to imagine that when done correctly and carefully that it could be something much like having a child or working on a math proof for years.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by kbenson on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:37PM (#14503077)
> There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states.

Sure. If cheating death is the path to that state for some people, that's understandable, and not really something new. I'm not judging him, this isn't some roundabout way to say people shouldn't free-solo. I'm literally trying to figure out if there's something else to it I'm missing, because the way it's stated makes it sound like there's something other than risk that's inherently different about free-soloing.

People are responding as if I said I don't understand why someone would do a risky behavior. I understand the high from cheating death. I don't understand doing something as risky as this if you aren't necessarily looking for that high, as the statement implied to me.

The alternative as I see it is that the author is reluctant to admit, or in denial about, some of the real reasons to free-solo. I didn't want to assume that without first checking my own assumptions.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by patejam on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:18PM (#14503228)
I think there's such a pushback on the term "cheating death" because it sounds like "I should have died, but I didn't", when in reality that's not what the thought process is. The thought process is "of course I'm not going to die because of x y and z".

For me, the best way to describe it is that I strive to feel in control in progressively more difficult environments. That's the mental state I'm looking for. The progression of the mental state goals are easy to follow:

Top Rope (rope already set up above you): "I feel in control despite me being 40' off the ground"

Lead climbing (bring the rope up and clip into the wall as you go): "I feel in control despite me having to take a big fall if I fail"

Outdoor climbing: "I feel control despite me climbing real cliffs outside"

And you can follow this all the way to free soloing, where you can feel in control despite having no safety net at all. I'm not going to pretend that I understand Honnold, and I don't free solo, but this line of thinking makes sense to me.

The other off topic reasons I climb are:

1. Getting better at a sport, just like any other sport/hobby.

2. I like the outdoors and adventure, climbing is a great way to see things from a perspective most can't.

3. Fitness

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by brianpan on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @02:15AM (#14504101)
I'd add to that and say that there are non-death threatening things that are very enjoyable to control and master (a cello, a paintbrush, code). It just so happens that some of those things that are enjoyable to master also involves mastering not killing yourself.

I love driving (shifting with manual transmission, steering, car maintenance, safe driving, etc). Some of that is controlling metal and machine; some of that is controlling your environment and the safety of your life. Same with riding a motorcycle, except I spend a little more on the safety part of it. Some might think I do it for the thrill of cheating death. Yes, staying alive is a goal, but that's not the reason I ride!

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Bakary on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:34PM (#14503279)
It's possible he has a much different view of the world than you or I do. I once met a person who did similarly risky things but from his perspective living a normal life seemed like a nightmarish slow burn death. He was completely fine with the most brazen stunts but the idea of settling down somewhere or having a 9-to-5 desk job gave him cold sweats and in his own words "the feeling as if a hand were wildly grasping at my throat" (sounds better in the original language). No "quiet desperation" for him I guess.

Although I think the simple thrill of it has to factor in at least a little bit, the climber is perhaps mainly motivated by the idea that not living like this is actually a form of death in itself or a very risky behavior (in the sense of wasting your life). It's similar to the ancient idea that a life of servitude is not a life at all. I can't say I necessarily agree but it's not such an outlandish concept either.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by breatheoften on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @03:46AM (#14504399)
I've free soloed easy routes (long 5.4-5.6 routes in tahquitz -- I regularly climb in the 5.12s). Soloing something that you are comfortable with is enjoyable precisely because you _dont_ feel like you are cheating death. It feels like a fun romp -- quickly up and down -- you move faster, you don't have to stop and deal with belays, and often you can downclimb the route and avoid a lengthy walk-off. To the extent that you feel like you accomplished something -- you only really have that feeling if the climbing felt easy and smooth. If it felt hard and scary -- it was probably a _not_ fun experience, and certainly its something you would feel less "proud" about because a "better" climber wouldn't have felt the need to experience the discomfort.

If you listen to Alex talk -- he climbs a huge amount of "easier" terrain and he often describes those experiences in similar terms. It's just for him "easy" is waaaaaaay harder. I can indeed imagine how cool it would be to run up 5.11 (or in honnolds case more like 5.12) with the same fun casualness that I have experienced when running up 5.4 -- and it really does sound like it feels that way for him often.

Pushing the difficulty of his soloing as he has is partially about the specific challenge of doing a harder route and partially about moving up his comfort zone so that he increases the range of "easy" terrain that he can go casually solo. His expanding comfort over time has given him access to a huge range of terrain that he could comfortably free solo - which is a huge part of the reason why Caldwell asserts that Honnold has probably climbed more technical rock mileage than anyone else ever.

I think one thing that's interesting (mystifying?) about the way Honnold treats risk -- he doesn't really acknowledge that the longer he solos the more likely he is to have an accident. Instead he focuses on how fear in some of the situations he pursues can only ever have a detrimental effect on performance -- and that setting aside that fear is actually a required part of the task of minimizing the risk involved for what he wants to pursue. I think this is probably true though the mathematician in me still struggles with the first part -- and actually if you look at Alex talk, it sounds like he's starting to change his tune a bit too. Free rider was one of his top life goals related to soloing -- and it sounds from his interview that his next goal at least is more focused on climbing harder routes than on pursuing harder soloing.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Ntrails on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @04:08AM (#14504481)
> Soloing something that you are comfortable with is enjoyable precisely because you _dont_ feel like you are cheating death. It feels like a fun romp..

Up until that slightly exposed bit where you suddenly get buffeted by some wind and spend 30 seconds panting slightly whilst re-organising your thoughts. It is, without question, the most pure/fun form of climbing. To my simple brain staying calm and on point for a 4 hour free solo is just inconceivable

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by breatheoften on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:14AM (#14504747)
Completely agree -- however if it wasnt inconceivable it would be very cool for reasons other than the grandparents postulated satisfaction of defying death.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by J-dawg on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @08:50AM (#14505909)
I used to climb, but didn't really have a handle on the difficulty of this due to the American grades used, so I looked into it a little more. It's utterly mind-blowing. This article [0] was helpful for anyone more used to UK climbing. This conversion chart is also handy. [1]

To put it into perspective, if you went to a busy indoor climbing gym, there'd maybe be one or two guys climbing at that level. And they'd probably be "working" a route, falling off it repeatedly, resting on the rope and learning the moves.

The idea of climbing at that technical level, for that length of time, with that level of risk just defies belief. I can't wrap my head around it.

[0] http://danmcmanus.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/a-guide-to-freeride... [1] https://www.rockfax.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/trad_grad...

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by cromulent on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:42AM (#14503817)
I know a lot of people who engage in dangerous sports, and I have done so myself. None of them do it because of some sense of cheating death - they do it because it is enormously fun and fulfilling. They walk away when the conditions are not right. If they wanted to cheat death, they would not.

The fact that it happens to be extremely dangerous means you take more care, but that is not the source of the pleasure. It's the cost of admission. Some won't pay it. Some will.

I really like that you are not judging him. I have seen people dismissed as stupid, as if they don't understand the risks. That's like calling a person stupid if they smoke. They aren't cheating death, they are enjoying cigarettes (and they are addicted, probably). But not stupid or ignorant.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Cyph0n on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:18AM (#14503923)
I don't think smoking is a fair analogy. Free climbing is an awe inspiring sport, while smoking is a deadly and addictive habit with zero advantages whatsoever.

I first read about free climbing in an issue of National Geographic almost a decade ago. I never once recall thinking that it was "stupid": on the contrary, it quickly jumped up my list of interesting sports (below chess boxing).

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by kdbg on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:28AM (#14503953)
Minor correction but a lot of people make the mistake, free climbing is what Ondra did on El Capitan's Dawn Wall last year. Where you climb with ropes but do not use it for any aid in climbing.

What Honnold has done is free soloing which is climbing without rope for protection.

They sound similar but are significantly different.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by EpicEng on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @08:46PM (#14511053)
I don't think your analogy is on point here. This is more akin to playing football without a helmet, or driving a race car without a roll cage. Playing the sport is one thing, but I agree with the parent; what reason aside from tempting fate is there to climb without safety gear?
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by cromulent on Thursday June 08, 2017 @04:09AM (#14512691)
You are still racing cars, you are still playing football with the safety gear on (although football players in Australia do not wear helmets, and F1 cars don't have roll cages nor even roofs). Perhaps your analogies are off also ;)

However, you can climb mountains in different ways and people want to explore the possibilities. Some climbers think bolts are OK, some don't. It's their personal philosophy. They don't get the satisfaction they want if they use bolts, and think they desecrate the climb. So they don't use them. Not because they want to tempt fate, but because they would prefer not to climb things in that way.

The reason you ask for is: It's what they want to do. Reinhold Messner climbed mountains without oxygen, without seige tactics, because that's how he thought mountains should be climbed. Not because he wanted to tempt fate by eschewing "safety gear".

Wingsuit BASE is much more dangerous than regular BASE. Putting on a wingsuit is the opposite of safety gear - it's dangerous gear. However, it's not done to tempt fate, it's done to gain a different experience. That's what I think Honnold is doing here. He thinks it can be done, he thinks he can do it, and he turns out to be right. Same as Messner.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by EpicEng on Thursday June 08, 2017 @10:42AM (#14514492)
>You are still racing cars, you are still playing football with the safety gear on (although football players in Australia do not wear helmets, and F1 cars don't have roll cages nor even roofs). Perhaps your analogies are off also ;)

Sure... I wasn't implying that taking part in dangerous sports is something only adrenaline junkies do; I meant to say that doing so _without taking simple safety precautions_ puts you into that category.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by cromulent on Thursday June 08, 2017 @11:57AM (#14515066)
I am trying to explain that there are different classes of climbing philosophically, not just one activity with or without certain safety related items.

"Motor racing without a helmet" = "stupid and pointless", we can probably agree on that.

"Climbing Everest without oxygen" != "Climbing Everest as an adrenaline junkie as I have deliberately foregone a safety related item".

"Free solo" != "Free climbing as an adrenaline junkie as I have deliberately foregone a safety related item".

My family have different risk tolerances and desires than me, but they know me and don't consider me an "adrenaline junkie".

I guess we just disagree :)

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by EpicEng on Thursday June 08, 2017 @02:05PM (#14515896)
>"Free solo" != "Free climbing as an adrenaline junkie as I have deliberately foregone a safety related item".

That's the part I don't get though. That said, I'm not a climber and I'm trying to logic my way through it as an outsider with zero experience, so I fully admit I may be wrong.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by algesten on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @11:59PM (#14503645)
Taking risks is not the same as cheating death.

Driving a motorcycle is not something you do to get an adrenaline high, yet from a strictly transportation perspective, it's a bigger risk than driving a car.

I think it has to do with priorities. Death is not the worst that can happen to me, hence I don't chose the safest option in every decision, because even though a long life is desirable, it's not the most important thing.

The sense of freedom is often worth more than the safest option.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by taneq on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @06:39PM (#14510407)
> Driving a motorcycle is not something you do to get an adrenaline high

As a rider who's done a fair bit of social riding over the years, I have only met one rider for whom the thrill of it is not a factor.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by artursapek on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:45PM (#14503096)
Perhaps there's an athletic nuance as well - a roped-in climber can rest at any point during the climb by just hanging there, whereas a free-soloer can only rest at certain ledges along the way that naturally let him do that. It takes crazy stamina and self-discipline.

Overall I agree with you that most of the feat seems to be about the risk, but there may be more to it (I'm not a climber).

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by baddox on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:17PM (#14503219)
Isn't the type of resting already distinguished from non-supported resting in competitive or high-level climbing? I know that the term "free climbing" means that you use ropes and supports for safety, but not to aid you in any way.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by yomly on Thursday June 08, 2017 @07:25AM (#14513343)
From reading other comments, it sounds like the programming equivalent to coding a product without any tests, validation, exception handling. Risky and very likely to lead to a unrecoverable spaghetti mess, but we've all been in that state where the ideas are just free flowing unimpeded by caution.

Considering that Honnold completed the free solo in around 4 hours, I would suppose it is an experience of a similar nature, albeit with greater personal risk involved.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by ryanmarsh on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @03:00PM (#14508966)
"War is the most dangerous fun you'll ever have"

– My old squad leader on NPR

Interviewer was aghast.

We're like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

An orgasm isn't called a little death (la petite mort) for nothing. I didnt know what it meant to live till I almost died. I'm definitely not a thrill seeker compared to free solo climbers. So call it what you will, I'm happier feeling life through the new senses I now have.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jaggi1 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:58PM (#14503382)
> Climbing is an intimate relationship with our world’s most dramatic landscapes, not a self-boasting fight against them.

For the same reason why many would spent hours catching fish over a lazy weekend when much better fish is available for $5 in super-market.

For the same reason why someone would spend 5 hours trying to solve an interesting algorithms problem when one can easily find a solution on internet.

I am not a climber. I have fear of heights but I can understand it.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by metachris on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @03:26AM (#14504326)
Many climbers have a fear of hights. Climbing can be a way to get comfortable with it.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by xernobyl on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @09:11AM (#14506070)
I climb and I'm afraid of heights, when I'm not climbing. I can't get near a ledge without an harness without feeling slightly dizy.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by paulmd on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:02PM (#14507459)
I'm a pilot and I'm terrified of heights. I get vertigo even thinking about looking over the edge of a cliff. I would also really like to try skydiving one of these years.

I think that a better way to express it for many people is we're not afraid of heights, we're afraid of falling and dying. Removing the falling aspect "cures" the phobia.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by adjkant on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @03:13PM (#14509056)
As a climber who is also scared of heights, I like to describe it as "a rational fear of heights". If I'm actually safe, I'm fine with it. It's the thought that a single slip, mental or physical = death. Even with a waist-high barrier, I'm still not going to look over the edge for fear of leaning too far. Give me a glass room hanging over the grand canyon that's stable and I'll be happy to go inside, lie face down on the floor, etc.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jaggi1 on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:02PM (#14509847)
That is a rational fear. What you are describing is a normal fear. In my caseit would be more of a phobia where even when I am perfectly safe I would sweat, heartbeat would increase and I might get into a panic attack as suck.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by cjonas on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:04PM (#14502940)
you could say the same thing about top-roping vs lead climbing (placing protection from the ground up). Yes, top-roping is much safer, but the experience & sense of achievement is just not the same.

Free-soloing (climbing without ropes) is the purest form of climbing. Not stopping to place protection, not having to bring up your partner, not having to haul a bag... It's just you on the wall. It takes most climber multiple days of painstaking climbing to summit Freerider. Alex did it in 4 hours.

Beyond all else it's just a unbelievable feat of human ability.

If you really want to understand just how impressive this was:

1: climb something (even if it's just 40 feet in a climbing gym) 2: Go to Yosemite and stand at the base of El Cap

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by kbenson on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:30PM (#14503046)
> If you really want to understand just how impressive this was:

I have no doubt it's impressive. I'm impressed. I'm not trying to diminish that in any way.

> you could say the same thing about top-roping vs lead climbing (placing protection from the ground up). Yes, top-roping is much safer, but the experience & sense of achievement is just not the same.

My question is why is the sense of achievement not the same. Is it because of the danger, or because it's inherently harder when you abstract danger from the situation?

> Free-soloing (climbing without ropes) is the purest form of climbing. ... not having to bring up your partner, not having to haul a bag

That's the closest I've seen to a an actual differentiation. Here's the question: If you could Free-solo the same wall but with without (or greatly reduced) danger? That is, hypothetically assume there's tracks installed vertically in the wall, and a robot that you are attached to ascends with you, so if you fall the robot keeps you from falling far and getting hurt. Does that somehow dampen the feeling of achievement when completed? If the answer is yes, then I fail to see how it's not about cheating death in some part.

Which is fine! Just own that shit.

I'm not making a value judgement about people doing this, I'm just trying to understand that statement. Either it is about cheating death to some degree and the author is not being truthful to someone (us or himself) for whatever reason, or it isn't about cheating death and I don't understand it at all, so I'm asking for clarification. Either I understand it, even if I don't practice it, or I don't understand it, in which case I want to. It sounds like it's about cheating death (even if just to get to some desired state easier).

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by tmh79 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:51PM (#14503123)
Free soloing is "inherently easier" in the physical sense when you abstract danger from situation, climbing with ropes slows a team down significantly. That is one of the reasons AH was able to climb the route in 4 hours as opposed to the usual 4 days.

In your hypothetical scenario the answer is yes, if there is no danger, the achievement of climbing without ropes is lessened.

The experience of free soloing is to small degree about cheating death, at least as much as watching a movie is about seeing moving colors and hearing sounds. What one really gets from free soloing (or risky rock climbing, which I have some experience with) is a unique clarity of mind, a change in ego, a confidence game, where you need to quash your own doubts about yourself to succeed. The consequences of falling are a necessary but insufficient condition for the resultant feeling of achievement. In my opinion, AH, and his ability to control his mind, is the closest living example we have to a Jedi.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by BenjaminCoe on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:15AM (#14503719)
Free soloing is actually a bit slower than the fastest free-climbers, which I found interesting: http://adventureblog.nationalgeographic.com/2012/06/25/alex-...

The time spent being especially careful that you don't fall, adds a bit more time than racing up with ropes.

Fun fact, Alex Honnold holds the speed record on El Cap.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Rapzid on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:13PM (#14503204)
This is my own experience with the very miniscule free-solo experience I have and even with trad leading over sport, over top rope.

If it's within my abilities/condition, I get into a much more zen/like zone doing trad leads vs coming up second. Or even leads in a gym. I really don't like falling, so that focuses me up and the world just fades away. It's all managing foot position, burn, effort level, pace, etc.

On the other hand, if it's outside my ability/condition and I'm shaky with failing energy... It's the worst experience in the world(overcoming it feels nice though lol).

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by crikli on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:59PM (#14503153)
That last paragraph is brilliant and I'm going to borrow it to use in conversations with my friends and family who have been asking me about Alex's climb and about free soloing.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by erkkie on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:05AM (#14504710)
"unique clarity of mind, a change in ego, a confidence game" - as an climber with some mildly risky free solo experience, this is a very good description.

It seems to me with no consequences of falling, that ultimate level of focus and control is impossible (hard?) to achieve, although one can get close with varying levels of more risky but less deadly climbs (lead climbing with a super long run-out and so on).

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by crikli on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:55PM (#14503135)
"Does that somehow dampen the feeling of achievement when completed? If the answer is yes, then I fail to see how it's not about cheating death in some part."

It's a good question...but I think only Alex could answer that question for himself.

I can say that the feat would not be as impressive because fear management and mental control are a huge part of climbing. As you move from top roping to sport leading (clipping your rope to preplaced hangers) to trad leading (placing your protective gear into cracks or other features in the rocks and trusting it to hold you if you fall) the risk increases and the fear start to become more of a factor.

I've seen climbers that have been perfectly physically capable of making a move but have been so gripped with fear that they couldn't move (and I've been that climber). I've done multipitch climbs (where you climb multiple rope lengths) where at the end of the climb I'm completely exhausted. Not from the physical exertion, but rather from the mental exertion of keeping fear at bay and from the sheer focus that climbing takes.

And honestly, I can see the appeal of free soloing. Protective gear is a giant pain in the ass. It's heavy. It's noisy. On lead the weight of the rope can become a very present annoyance, especially if you're on a long pitch. I would love for there to be the magical robot of your hypothesis that allowed me to climb without all that shit. But such a thing doesn't exist and my personal risk envelope has not expanded to free soloing (nor will it).

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by cjonas on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:51PM (#14503119)
> Here's the question: If you could Free-solo the same wall but with without (or greatly reduced) danger? That is, hypothetically assume there's tracks installed vertically in the wall, and a robot that you are attached to ascends with you, so if you fall the robot keeps you from falling far and getting hurt. Does that somehow dampen the feeling of achievement when completed? If the answer is yes, then I fail to see how it's not about cheating death in some part.

There are certainly climbers who COULD repeat the climb in the same style, if they were guaranteed they couldn't fall to their death (Tommy Caldwell being one of them). And yes, without the risk the achievement definitely doesn't seem as impressive (moon landing?).

But I don't think Alex see's it like he's "cheating death". Instead more of "confidence in mastery of ones skill and mind" to a point where the crazy & impossible seems realistic.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Rapzid on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:58PM (#14503147)
I think it has more to do with agency than thrills.. You could look at that as cheating death, but it's not quite the same as jumping 20 buses on a Triumph and just hoping you don't break all your bones cause, you know, it just seems to happen to you frequently and maybe this time it won't.

The game is just different. The mental state is different. The focus is different.

Look, ignore the utility differences between scooting around on your butt and walking, running, or cycling. The sense of agency involved is simply different. They are also, possibly, more risky than scooting around on your butt.

Bowling without bumpers has a different feel to it than with; even if you never touch them. It's not so much about cheating the gutter; the agency, the feel, the game is different.

It's hard to explain why free solo > trad > sport > top roping for some. But it has everything to do with risk while having nothing to do with risk.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by dragonsky67 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:33PM (#14503274)
I've only done a very small amount of climbing many years ago, however I have done a fair bit of overnight hiking.

I would suggest that the difference between protected and free climbing would be the same as the difference between hiking with a full backpack and hiking with a small day pack with only some food/water and maybe a warm pullover. Your plans are the same, to travel somewhere, your methods and the level of encumbrance is very different. Your enjoyment would also be different, with significantly less sweat and exhaustion but depending upon your environment maybe less enjoyable sleep and more restricted food. In my subtropical environment I know which I prefer, as long as it does not rain.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by nicky0 on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @03:09AM (#14504278)
The term "cheating death" implies that the person should have died but didn't. You make it seem like a game of russian roulette. That's not the case here. The person used their skill to climb the wall -- there's no "should have died" part.

Falling from the wall and surviving through freak luck would be cheating death.

I think what you mean is "does the fear aspect make a difference?". Not "cheating death". Your repeated use of the term I think belittles climbing as some kind of crazy stunt.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by baddox on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:21PM (#14503236)
I don't see why it has to be about cheating death. What about just the fact that you're accomplishing the climb yourself, with as little external help as possible? A free solo climb doesn't even use any tools, other than climbing shoes and presumably light clothing. Having a massive drone flying next to you or a safety elevator makes it much less about just you and nature.

Imagine you completely reproduced a famous climb indoors with a 3D printer. Surely you can understand the difference between climbing that and climbing the real thing, even if the physical difficulty is identical.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by luca_ing on Thursday June 08, 2017 @11:51AM (#14515019)
> If you could Free-solo the same wall but with without (or greatly reduced) danger? [...] Does that somehow dampen the feeling of achievement when completed?

I've pondered this.

For me personally, the answer is: yes.

I think part of the sense of achievement after success comes from knowing what you invested (effort, risk, ...). I'd like to say that for me the fun of climbing would be about "oneness with nature" or some such thing, and that's partly true, but in reality daring to take a calculated risk, and succeeding, gives it a big extra something.

Maybe compare it with heli skiing vs backcountry skiing. Let's say both are equally non-risky. The sense of achievement (and exhaustion) after making the summit is quite different, even though it's the same summit. And having come up by chopper you might be able to benefit from the fresh powder on the way down more (because you're not exhausted), but the feeling of elation is just not the same -- at least for me.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Bartweiss on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:21PM (#14507630)
One fact that might help - setting safety gear generally consumes a significant portion of a climber's time and effort. It doesn't show in top-roped gym climbing, but going up El Cap means putting a great deal of work into hauling and placing safety gear.

Free soloing versus geared climbing is almost comparable to free diving versus scuba. It's less safe, but removes so much overhead that it's a qualitatively different experience.

Honnold's free solos in Yosemite are frequently world speed records - often by a factor of 2 or more. He's climbing with a directness and lack of complication that's really hard to attain any other way.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by rukuu001 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:05PM (#14502948)
I think there's some nuance to to live here.

There's the banal meaning, which is the opposite of dead.

Another meaning, which I think the article meant, is to explore the outer limits of your ability and ambition during your incredibly brief period of existence in the universe. That's living. :)

Edit: formatting.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by sriku on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:24PM (#14503245)
To "live" in this sense is, perhaps, to "flow" in the Mihaly sense. You can't flow if you're dead, but the flow you seek is not a panicked fleeing from death.

Not too different from deciding to run a startup - small probability of success, certainty of exhaustion, possible alienation from family, etc. SV provides ropes for when you fail. Doesn't happen everywhere.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by snowwrestler on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:24PM (#14503025)
Everyone lives their life in the face of impending death. Yet we usually judge the quality of our lives by what we accomplish, not the mere postponement of the inevitable.

Climbers climb for the enjoyment of the experience, and to get to the top--not just to show that they can avoid falling. Alex is a rare elite climber, so he reaches for rare elite experiences and accomplishments.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Bakary on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:52PM (#14503343)
Looks like he's not the dead-at-25-buried-at-75 type!
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by JoeDaDude on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:21PM (#14507621)
I'll let Charles Lindberg's words about his first parachute jump attempt an answer. Having been both a skydiver and a rock climber, I can say his thoughts are spot on.

"When I decided that I too must pass through the experience of a parachute jump, life rose to a higher level, to a sort of exhilarated calmness... The thought left me a feeling of anticipation mixed with dread, of confidence restrained by caution, of courage salted through with fear.

It was that quality that led me into aviation in the first place — it was a love of the air and sky and flying, the lure of adventure, the appreciation of beauty. It lay beyond the descriptive words of man — where immortality is touched through danger, where life meets death on equal plane; where man is more than man, and existence both supreme and valueless at the same instant." [1]

[1] "The Spirit of St Louis", C. Lindberg, 1954. Quote was lightly edited for brevity.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by bbctol on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @09:35AM (#14506292)
It's about not being encumbered by all the extra material. People can feel more fulfilled by just experiencing themselves and the mountain, not themselves, the mountain, and a whole mess of carabiners and leveraged ropes.

Honnold's no thrill-seeker, he just prefers doing things alone.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Bartweiss on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:26PM (#14507682)
Another thought - this is specifically about Honnold.

Caldwell isn't just making a pretty-sounding claim, he's drawing a distinction between Honnold and other free soloists who were much more attuned to death, who seemed to be free soloing precisely for the adrenaline rush of survival. (Dean Potter is the classic example.)

So I think this is a claim that Honnold is soloing for the purity and experience of the thing, specifically as compared to some other soloists who are more focused on adrenaline and risk.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by pavement on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:05PM (#14508010)
It's about perspective. One definition or opinion does not necessarily invalidate the other. Each is an expression of a point of view.

You say safety equipment. Others might say encumbrance, or unnatural performance enhancer, or laziness cheat. An apparatus that enables a lessening of difficulty, which eases the challenge.

When the goal is to engage a challenge, anything that renders the effort less challenging is a dilution of the very challenge as a whole.

Of course one must use safety equipment to examine the possibility of a raw attempt. But one builds on the experience, removing the unnecessary, wherever possible.

Of course it's easier to climb with a helmet and ropes, because those are the things that provide for obvious leverage to control the outcome. But who ever climbed a mountain because they wanted to do an easy thing?

The harder the task is, the better, in this context. The satisfaction of accomplishment is the goal, rather than the stress or all of the physiological byproducts or recognition that come as part of the package when completing the task.

Trying to do something, based on an intuition that an outcome is possible, when others lack the same intuition is the goal here.

This is not the same as fame. Fame is a derivative of the behavior of others, as outsiders to the activity.

To trust in one's intuition, and find that it is correct, is a fundamental aspect of human existence.

To divorce oneself of maximizing challenge, is to lie in bed all day as a shut in, and have your food delivered to you, in the most exaggerated sense of the comparison.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Angostura on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @04:57AM (#14504673)
I'm not a climber, but I imagine that there could be two things going on here:

1. The sheer pleasure of doing something unaided - people enjoy doing crosswords without referring to computer screen that will tell them all 7 letter words ending in g-something-t.

2. The pleasure of feeling yourself as part of nature. The walk in the woods wearing shorts and a T-shirt, rather than racing through it on a motorcycle.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by qume on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @03:19AM (#14504303)
Does free diving vs scuba diving make sense to you?

Basically different sports, rather than being about safety

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by msteffen on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @11:49PM (#14503606)
When you're free soloing, you climb much faster and with much less equipment.

With safety equipment, climbing El Cap takes 2-4 days, and you have to pull up several bags of equipment behind you with pulleys.

Without any safety equipment (i.e. free soloing) climbing El Cap takes a few hours and you just bring your body and some chalk.

Plus it's just a cool thing to do (at least IMO). It's like, the dude is so good at climbing he doesn't need ropes.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jjeaff on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @06:08AM (#14504947)
I find it funny that you mention that climbing el cap free soloing, "just takes a few hours" as if it wasn't just recently free soloed for the very first time in known history by one of the most skilled climbers of all time.

It takes hannold 4 hours. It will likely never be tried successfully by anyone else.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by hourislate on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:58PM (#14502916)
I would like Alex to get tested for toxoplasmosis. It would explain a lot.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by eicossa on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:21PM (#14503237)
Is the link between risky behaviour and a toxoplasmosis infection that well established ?
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by hourislate on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:04AM (#14503674)
Apparently so. I watch Joe Rogans interview with Robert Sapolsky which I might add was fascinating and he spoke about this at length and how people with toxo are more likely to take risks and or live dangerously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obmt_PkIfBE

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Radim on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @02:47AM (#14504180)
For what it's worth, Joe Rogan interviewed Alex Honnold himself, a few years back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OusYaNWBy08

In a typical Rogan style, it's a pretty relaxed and "real" chat, about girls, shitting your pants, purpose etc. Gives a little more insight into how top athletes like Alex think and approach their craft.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by yayitswei on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:46PM (#14507867)
By that logic, would you call doing a startup cheating poverty?
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by aaron695 on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:14AM (#14503717)
If you wore a helmet 24 hours a day you'd be living a safer life.

Most people don't, because we want to live life not be scared of it.

He's the same as the rest of us just on a different level.

I find it kinda easy to understand even if it's not my thing.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by skookumchuck on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:49PM (#14503113)
By cheating death, one becomes famous. The article and this thread is proof of that. Being famous supplies many advantages and privileges.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jonah on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:22PM (#14500942)
One of the most striking quotes for me was: "Alex once told me that he had never fallen completely unexpectedly—meaning without at least some prior inclination that it could happen. When I told him that I had unexpectedly fallen at least ten times, he looked confused, like somehow that didn’t compute."

It really illustrates what a professional Alex is and how in-tune he is with his skills and his craft.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by psyc on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:38PM (#14501092)
I take the same thing from that quote. I have a good friend who has become one of the top competition paraglider pilots in the world. A lot of paragliders see him as doing terrifying, reckless things. He's told me that he considers himself a conservative pilot, and that he doesn't take risks. I agree with his self-assessment. I've known him a long time, and saw him ascend through a long, well-ordered series of incremental challenges.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jonah on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:24PM (#14502373)
Luck only lasts so long. You don't last long at sports like this if you aren't cautious and well-trained, that's for sure.

I'll offer a counter anecdote to yours: I was talking to a guy this weekend who had been a serious hang-glider for over a decade when he was younger. Every time a friend would have a problem, he analyzed it and saw that because of the way he operated he wouldn't make the same mistake and could therefore rationalize his continued participation in the sport. Eventually though, he had a problem, he made a mistake, it scared him, but it took fully two years of continuing to fly before he finally worked through it and decided that he could never eliminate enough risk and quit flying.

EDIT: I may have mischaracterized his response and removed "error-free" language and clarified with "eliminate enough risk".

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by psyc on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:52PM (#14502582)
So, both of the replies to my comment seem like they assume there's a need for a strong assurance that "it won't happen to me." I know hundreds of para/hang pilots, and I think the majority of them don't think about it that way. We already made a fundamental decision to risk life and limb to fly.

We engage in that kind of analysis continually, and collectively. Our conversations are like 80% post-mortem, all the time. Somebody gets hurt, the whole community analyses it in minute detail, the pilot writes it up, we watch video of the incidents. We check in with ourselves about whether we would make the mistake, whether we have the knowledge/skill/pre-flight routine to avoid it. Contrary to the other commenter, constant self- and peer- assessment is extremely useful. It's just that the goal isn't to assure ourselves that we won't get hurt. The goal is simply to improve our odds. That's all.

Most of us know multiple pilots who died unexpectedly, sometimes very good pilots in benign conditions. I'd guess every one of us knows someone who broke their back. We're very conscious of the risks, people who think their skill puts them above it are in the minority. We only talk about odds, and increasing our time between incidents. Those few of us who have been unscathed know that we're due. It's worth it. I've seen a paraplegic come back and fly again.

EDIT: Yes, "eliminate enough risk" sounds much more like para-talk to me. My instructor always harped on about high-percentage vs low-percentage decisions. He was downright gleeful about responding to ubiquitous "Is flying safe?" questions by popping catastrophe reels into the DVD player.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jonah on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:49PM (#14502867)
We had two high-profile paragliding deaths over the past year in my area. One, a seasoned pro who'd flown (and instructed) here for decades apparently took a risky line (if you don't have enough altitude or updrafts to make it over a saddle, there's nowhere to go) and didn't make it. She knew the area well and knew the issues but something went wrong - what specifically happened is unknown of course, maybe canopy collapse. The second was a father who took his daughter up, failed to clip himself in correctly somehow, got disconnected, and fell 1000 feet. His daughter didn't know how to fly but survived her subsequent crash landing.

* I'm not a paraglider, so apologies if the terminology is off.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by weaksauce on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:10PM (#14502668)
There is an old saying in climber culture: "There are old climbers. There are bold climbers... but, there are no old, bold climbers."
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by dctoedt on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:30PM (#14502756)
My dad used to say the same about fighter pilots (he was one).
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by justinator on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:38PM (#14502496)
Climbers do this type of analysis too. Accident are reported,filed, and are published in a yearly volume. You can also search online:

http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/

It's a great supplement to experience,

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by eeZi on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:07PM (#14502654)
German equivalent, must read if you're a climber and know the language: http://www.bergundsteigen.at/

Austria, Switzerland and Germany have a very long rock climbing history (unsurprisingly), and their respective climbing associations are obsessed about safety.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by dctoedt on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:38PM (#14502800)
> ... he wouldn't make the same mistake and could therefore rationalize his continued participation in the sport.

In the early chapters of the book The Right Stuff, Tom Wolfe says that this was the normal attitude among test pilots about their brethren who crashed and died. "How could anybody fail to check his hose connections? And how could anybody be in such poor condition as to pass out that quickly from hypoxia? ... One theorem was: There are no accidents and no fatal flaws in the machines; there are only pilots with the Wrong Stuff. (I.e., blind Fate can't kill me.)"

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by viraptor on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:31PM (#14502439)
I've never heard anyone describe themselves as a reckless or unsafe driver. I'm sure majority of people before accidents say they're conservative drivers.

Maybe he's right, but... self-assessments of skills are rarely useful. Survival bias and all that.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by skookumchuck on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:54PM (#14503132)
A combat fighter pilot once told me that 90% of pilots were fearful they were not good enough, and covered it up with bravado and drinking. The other 10% knew they were good enough.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by zackbloom on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:53PM (#14503351)
*weren't good enough
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by zdean on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:08PM (#14501858)
Having never tried rock climbing, I'm curious what the potential causes of catastrophic events would be on this kind of a climb (that would necessitate safety gear for most climbers in the first place)...pieces of rock that give out under a hand/foot, appendage slipping out of place, etc.?
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by hluska on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:59PM (#14502216)
I am a mediocre climber (after about 5.10c, I start thinking, "Greg, this is fucking insane."), but I used to be quite heavily involved with the Alpine Club of Canada and have read many incident reports about climbing deaths. One thing sticks out as being common enough to warrant mention. It is insane how often deaths happen when highly experienced climbers get out of their routine and make tiny little mistakes. When you are working on a difficult enough problem, a tiny mistake is most often fatal (unless you are using ropes).

With climbs like El Cap, a tiny mistake could be something as simple as letting momentum carry you a few degrees too far, losing your focus for an instant, or even losing strength. Climbing is a cross between chess, long distance running and gymnastics and to free solo something like El Cap, you need to be world class at all of those...simultaneously.

Several years ago, when I had a total of three hours of climbing experience (one hour in a classroom and two hours on an indoor wall), I made a mistake ice climbing that could have been fatal if I had not been properly roped in. I was incredibly inexperienced, got incredibly scared and started gripping onto my tools for dear life. I was so scared that I put all of my strength into my grip. My forearms spasmed and I lost my grip. I was an ugly climber, so my belay partner had given me a little too much slack, so I fell about six or seven feet, thus leaving a very experienced climber's very expensive tools in an ice wall several feet above me. Rather than get lowered and try to recover his tools the proper way, I decided to use crampons and my gloved hands to climb the ice like I would climb a rock. It was an incredibly sunny day, so the waterfall was a little wet and that was likely the most miserable seven feet that I have ever climbed.

In retrospect, it's a funny story about a noob getting scared and I had to buy several rounds of beer when we got back to civilization. But, that's an example of losing focus and doing something incredibly foolish that could have had tragic consequences.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by joshfraser on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:35PM (#14502476)
I've run into plenty of snakes and had a bee land on my hand while reaching for a hold. I've had rocks break off beneath my feet. My arms have gotten tired and my feet have slipped unexpectedly. Heck, I've tripped just going down a flight of stairs. That's why I always use a rope. As a climber, I'm in awe of this feat but seriously hope he's the last person to do it.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by bmj on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:32PM (#14502447)
Despite what others have said, there is still loose rock on El Capitan. That is always a concern.

The particular route Honnold climbed (Freerider) is hardly "cutting edge" (at 5.13-, it is roughly eight or nine grade levels below the absolute hardest rock climbs in the world), but the most difficult section (the "crux" in climbing jargon) is notoriously insecure, meaning that even skilled climbers find the movement difficult. Honnold himself spent time on the route on a rope learning this sequence (and others).

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by rrauenza on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:13PM (#14501898)
A month or so ago I watched this 60 minutes of his Half Dome climb ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1jwwagtaQ

I seem to recall him saying in it one of the big risks is suddenly being overcome with fear or vertigo from the height.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by macawfish on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:15PM (#14502692)
My hands are sweating non-stop just watching this.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Silfen on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:17PM (#14501939)
For us mortals, it is far more likely that you simply lose your balance, strength, or concentration. A typical multi-pitch climb is hard work and the odds of missing a move are pretty high.

Granted, I'm a mediocre climber (can lead 10c/d), but falling every once and a while is pretty common for most of us.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by cbtacy on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:13PM (#14501900)
If you're a skilled climber, the most common reasons for falling are likely: fatigue, improper execution of a move, improper foot or hand placement, improper sequence of moves, random shit.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by et-al on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:14PM (#14501907)
Like you said, it's not uncommon for people's feet to slip out from under them. A big part of climbing is the friction your shoes have against the rock, but move around, reach for something, and angle of your foot against the rock changes, along with the friction, and zoosh: your foot slides off.

The rock can break off ("chossy" climbs, Pinnacles is notorious for this), but that's a less common occurrence than Hollywood would lead one to believe.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Baeocystin on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @01:53AM (#14504018)
>The rock can break off ("chossy" climbs, Pinnacles is notorious for this)

A doctor from our local hospital died from, as far as we can tell, exactly this while climbing Discovery Wall. He was an excellent climber, and was using appropriate gear. He just was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and his safety equipment wasn't enough.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by 2muchcoffeeman on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:46PM (#14502151)
Depends on the rock. The sandstone along Sydney's eastern beaches can be fragile in places.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by petertodd on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:53PM (#14502189)
El Capitan is granite, and perhaps even more importantly, it's very heavily climbed so for the most part anything that can break will have already been broken off by someone else.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by hluska on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:09PM (#14502280)
I don't agree with that. In fact, I wear a helmet whenever I am near a wall because I have seen way too many formerly solid looking rocks fall, even on granite.

Heck, a few years ago, a 2000 ton slab of rock fell off of Half Dome, which is a famous granite dome in Yosemite. I can't find the article now (of course), but I read a great article about how rock expands and contracts with the heat of the sun, water gets into cracks and plates will break off.

This article is okay, though it isn't the one that I'm thinking of. If I can the correct article, I'll edit this answer.

http://www.livescience.com/51490-yosemite-half-dome-rock-fal...

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by petertodd on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:27PM (#14503035)
You're missing a very important distinction though: for a solo climber the main thing out of their control that's different from normal rock climbing is holds breaking unexpectedly. For that risk, having lots of people climbing the rock helps increase the chances that such unexpectedly weak holds will have been broken already by someone else; obviously loose rock isn't so much of an issue, for the simple reason that you know it's loose and can climb appropriately.

Rock fall meanwhile is dangerous to all climbers, whether or not they're using ropes. Sure, it's more dangerous to a solo climber - you might get lucky and just get knocked out, something a rope can save you from - but we're talking about a moderate risk vs. high risk comparison, not zero-risk to high risk. That 2000 ton slab you gave isn't a very good example, because something that big has a pretty good chance of killing you rope or not.

FWIW, I do a lot of cave exploration, and in caves the "already broken off" effect is a very powerful one. Virgin passage that's never been explored before can be a very scary place to be because everything can be loose and ready to fall. This is particularly true in areas that undergo freeze-thaw cycles, such as upper parts of alpine caves - I've been in places where every single bit of rock, including the ceiling, is heavily fractured due to frost. Breakdown piles are also a big problem - they're huge piles of rocks and boulders, generally due to ceilings gradually collapsing, and you have to be really careful around ones that haven't been visited frequently because pretty much anything you stand on could be unstable. Lots of cavers have been trapped in breakdown piles that shifted unexpectedly.

The underlying cause of this problem in caves is simple: caves can be very static environments with no weather, increasing the chances that the force you exert on a rock will be the largest force it has ever experienced in that position.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by idlewords on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @10:58AM (#14506956)
This is an exceptionally interesting comment. Thank you!

It occurs to me that this phenomenon will also be a big risk factor in lunar exploration, if people ever go back up there.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by petertodd on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:26PM (#14510007)
Thanks!

Oh, is http://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda_weehawken_burrito_t... yours? That's basically my favorite blog post ever.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by eagletusk on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:12PM (#14502678)
Or someone can drop gear.

10% of El Cap accidents are falling objects http://www.climbingyosemite.com/portfolio/danger-zones-nose/

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by 2muchcoffeeman on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:46PM (#14503100)
Yeah, I'm just saying the things that go wrong depends on where you're climbing.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by petertodd on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:15PM (#14503212)
Yup, you're 100% correct there.

For example, I've personally done quite a bit of what's actually free soloing in cave exploration, but that style of climbing is done in confined spaces with rock on every side. You're much less dependent on individual holds as you'll usually be supporting yourself by pushing against the rock with your whole body, so it's a lot safer than most free soloing - even if you do fall you have a good chance of self arresting by, and if you can't you can at least slow your fall significantly and just slide to the bottom.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jonah on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:41PM (#14502822)
In the Outside article up thread, Tommy Caldwell who free climbed the route with Alex a couple weeks ago mentions loose rock as scaring him: "I went to Yosemite last week over the Memorial Day holiday and we did a practice lap on the Freerider with a rope. High on the wall, panting and sweating, feet smearing on crispy flakes that made crunching noises as I stepped on them."
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by et-al on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:16PM (#14503217)
Yeah, sandstone and water don't mix.

I was highlighting the sudden surprises that tend to catch a climber off-guard. If someone is climbing on wet sandstone, they should already be cognisant that it may crumble. (They should also avoid climbing it when wet so that they don't break holds, but that's another topic on stewardship.)

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Xyik on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:59PM (#14502614)
when you climb high grades the rock becomes extremely difficult to navigate and 'grip'. The common example is stacking 2-3 credit cards on top of each other and looking at the edge from the top - thats the size of the rock people are holding onto and stepping on with all their weight. In some cases you won't even have a flat piece of rock to step on, imagine climbing a brick wall. Asides from the difficulty, there are obvious elements such as high winds when you're at that altitude, mist, rain, wildlife, etc.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by xixor2 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:36PM (#14503073)
weather
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jjeaff on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @06:18AM (#14504997)
Alex may be the standout that never makes a mistake. But a notable free soloist dies while climbing about once a year. And I'm sure they all claim to know their limits and understand their abilities as well.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by msnower on Thursday June 08, 2017 @11:00AM (#14514625)
This quote is telling. After listening to a lecture given by someone who is a master of their craft (even if I watch online), I can feel a sense of clarity whenever I'm doing the task they talk about. A master of his/her craft knows the craft so deeply that it's as easy as breathing. This is how climbing must be for Alex... though, sometimes everyone skips a breath. I guess his atypical Amygdala helps him get over that.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Florin_Andrei on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:27PM (#14500986)
I've read an article recently - someone actually scanned Honnold's brain and it turns out his amygdala does not respond in the usual way to inputs that in most people would elicit fear. In colloquial terms, he's "fearless".

If true, that would explain a lot.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by zzalpha on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:32PM (#14501031)
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by vlasev on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:57PM (#14501259)
Apparently, meditation can reduce the size of your amygdala [1], and this reduces your fear response, so yea. I'm not saying you can become like him, but you can make some headway in that direction.

[1]: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/what-does-mi...

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by pcmonk on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:33PM (#14502044)
Sounds like a bad idea to me. People like Alex have a pretty short life expectancy.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by komali2 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:39PM (#14502102)
But what a life they lead.

Considering you and I have a 100% chance of death anyway, I see the attraction.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by pcmonk on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:57PM (#14502209)
Oh, I agree. I guess I'm saying that if you want to live that life, that's great, go shrink your amygdala. However, if you haven't chosen that, then a smaller amygdala may not help you live a better life.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by weaksauce on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:15PM (#14502687)
reducing the amygdala would be a win in stress and anxiety management though which would touch all aspects of life.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by vlasev on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:32PM (#14503061)
And that's the point. A lot of us walk around with certain fears that would be best to be put behind us. This kind of thing helps, indeed.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by vlasev on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:33PM (#14503064)
This stuff is not so that you'd go out there and live a life like Alex. It's more of a, face some of your own irrational fears, sort of thing.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jonny_eh on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:42PM (#14501126)
Honnold needs the following to do what he did: Absolute fearlessness, talent (most couldn't ever do what he did even with years of practice), and discipline (to train like crazy).

People like Honnold are pretty rare.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by georgemcbay on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @05:56PM (#14501765)
And: Luck (because shit happens). I don't mean for this to in any way diminish his amazing accomplishments, but no matter how well he trains and how disciplined he is, he is always one unexpected external event (failing hold, rock falling from above, just enough loose dirt) from complete failure.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by piptastic on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:11PM (#14501888)
I guess, but I am one external event away from dying on my drive to work too.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Florin_Andrei on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:41PM (#14502118)
Sure. Just a lot less probable.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by arcticfox on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:19PM (#14502331)
Alex only does dangerous free solos on rare occasions. He's certainly vastly more likely to die on one than the average person on the average day, but the fact that he only does it rarely is how he's still alive at all.

Nobody really knows exactly what type of risk he's taking, but my rough guess is that he's probably on the order of ~10x an average mortality rate (which is 1.5% / yr among males his age).

Whether that's insane or not is up to an individual. For me, it's a rare combination of crazy and rational, which I find fascinating.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by ghshephard on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @12:55PM (#14507933)
Your average mortality rate is off by 10x. Mortality rate for a 31 year old in the United States is 104/100,000 or 0.104%/year.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/mortfinal2007_worktable23r...

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by arcticfox on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:15PM (#14516406)
Ah, so that would make my estimate ~100x. Thanks
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by hluska on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:17PM (#14502325)
That reminds me of a very dark joke that I heard in a bar in Canmore once.

- How do you become the greatest climber in the world?

- You become the second greatest climber and wait for #1 to die.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Florin_Andrei on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @05:01PM (#14501299)
I would also presume that from a physical perspective he must be above average in ways that matter for this sport.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by DoubleCribble on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @05:30PM (#14501532)
Indeed. Tall, skinny, gangly, and very big hands & fingers with incredible power. Imagine doing 10 sets of reps of pulls-ups but hanging on with only one finger at a time to get an idea. As if one-arm pull-ups weren't hard enough, pinky pull-ups are on a whole different level.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by kinkrtyavimoodh on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:30PM (#14502020)
I won't call him gangly. He isn't even skinny in the sense most people assume (no muscle, stick figure).

He seems to have a lot of lean muscle (http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2017/06/05/ap_17155772401614...)

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by DoubleCribble on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:59PM (#14502217)
No? He looks gangly to me.

gangly, adj., \ˈgaŋ-glē\ : long and thin [1]

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gangly

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by CamperBob2 on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:57PM (#14510189)
Watch the '60 Minutes' interview with him that somebody else linked to in the thread. His fingers are the size of household water pipes.

It would be rude to call him a mutant, but that's pretty much what he is, for better or worse.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by mistermann on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @05:53PM (#14501744)
Ten pull ups with one finger on only one arm?
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by DoubleCribble on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:55PM (#14502195)
I can't find the video I want right now, but this has some nice visuals. Check out this climber planking around 0:39.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igYhX5xyprw

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jojoo on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:23PM (#14502361)
maybe it was a video from magnus mitboe? https://youtu.be/BEc5uVsM6bE?t=1m33s

or the 80ies oldschool classic; wolfgang guellich in a german gameshow: https://youtu.be/rugoETlUAVI?t=22m47s

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by jojoo on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:15PM (#14502308)
there are actually a lot of people who can climb harder (on a rope) than alex honnold; he has done one 8c+; atm 350 people have done 9a or harder and a lot of people have done multiple 8c+ routes:

http://escalade9.wifeo.com/par-nationalite.php

i think what's so special about him are his mental abilities, not his physical.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Rapzid on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:00PM (#14502923)
In 2012 Alex solo'd Freerider, Watkins, and Half Dome in ~19 hours.

He completed the Fitz Traverse with Tommy, who referred to him as the greatest climber of our generation(perhaps a bit of hyperbole, but still).

He is the current speed record holder with Hans Florine for The Nose.

Alex is the top ultramarathoner of rock climbing. Not only is his endurance of effort incredibly high, he is able to continually execute moves at an extremely high level with an almost non-existent error rate. He has admitted to feeling fear, and has mentioned that he free solo's stuff he feels very comfortable with. I'm positive his AMAZING physical abilities, particularly in the area of climbing endurance, are a contributing factor to his success in this area.

It may be true that his grade is not as high as 350 other peoples, however I would say that dismissing his "physical abilities" as not so special is perhaps not so accurate.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by breatheoften on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @05:28AM (#14504799)
I think it's also worth pointing out how far out on the bell curve those 350 people with comparable or greater athletic climbing skills are as well. The modern day top tier or two of climbers are athletes with Olympian levels of talent/training.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by Babooster on Thursday June 08, 2017 @08:43AM (#14513744)
All those technically harder routes are like 50 metres high. Sure there are 350 people that could theoretically manage this climb technical skill-wise, but I'm also 100% certain none of those 350 would be able to accomplish this incredible feat endurance-wise or mentally for four hours and 1000+ meters and absolutely 0 mistakes, while I'm also certain that if Honnold puts his mind to it he will be able to climb those technically harder routes.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by salesguy222 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @06:10PM (#14501876)
He is in fact extremely lean, and his fingers have massive growths of connective tissue from all the years of thrashing up rocks dangling by his fingertips ^.^
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by semi-extrinsic on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @05:02PM (#14501304)
Someone did the same with top downhill skier Aksel Lund Svindal last year, with the same conclusion. They also attached a pinhole camera inside his goggles to study eye movements, and found that he never blinks for the full 2 1/2 minutes of a race.
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by rl3 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @07:25PM (#14502380)
I forget to blink at a healthy rate when playing unusually intense matches in certain RTS games.

Usually my eyes dry out and I end up with smeared vision and halos around light sources until the eyes regain their moisture.

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by eagletusk on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:28PM (#14502750)
I believe you are referring to this Nautilus article

http://nautil.us/issue/39/sport/the-strange-brain-of-the-wor...

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by nerfhammer on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @08:33PM (#14502771)
Damasio reviews evidence that people that lose the ability to feel certain emotions make worse decisions. It seemingly simply doesn't occur to them to not do dangerous things and there are cases where it leads to systematically bad decisions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatic_marker_hypothesis

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by rconti on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @09:01PM (#14502926)
Posted below, but needs to be higher up. Photos from the valley, and notes from the photographer.

http://elcapreport.com/content/elcap-report-6317-special-edi...

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by paddy_m on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:50PM (#14501217)
I thought Tim Ferriss's interview of Honnold was quite an interesting exploration of his thought process.

http://tim.blog/2016/05/17/alex-honnold/

Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by ForHackernews on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @05:33PM (#14501563)
Did he ask him if he uses BrainQuicken (tm) to achieve his success?
Re:Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Cli... by idlewords on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @11:03AM (#14507000)
Honnold is clearly a Four-Hour Climber. Story checks out.