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Re:VR by iplaw on Friday January 13, 2017 @01:48PM (#13393445)
Blown away? Hyperbole of the century. At CES this year, I tried all the VR/AR tech I could get my hands on. Microsoft HoloLens, HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Sony VR, Galaxy Gear, and everything in between.

I wasn't expecting much and yet I was still underwhelmed. There is zero immersion, primarily due to the poor resolution, the screen door effect, and the crippled field of view. It felt like watching a scene through a pair of binoculars, but that's not a fair comparison either, as physical binoculars are more immersive than any of these devices.

I feel like I the only one that feels such disappointment!

Re:VR by pera on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:25PM (#13393878)
This is so different from my experience with the HTC Vive: while I obviously perceived the poor resolution, screen door effect, etc., after the first minute I started feeling more and more immersed, and then something in my brain clicked, pretty much like when you are falling asleep. That's when everything started feeling almost like a lucid dream. My heartbeat was noticeable faster and I felt strangely happy/exited, like if my brain was pumping serotonin. It was so weird and fantastic. The only reason why I still didn't buy one is because it currently is a relatively big investment (ie gaming desktop+vive) for an entertainment technology.
Re:VR by westoncb on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:59PM (#13394198)
I think you nailed it: you have to relax a certain amount and let your brain do it's own thing—like falling asleep. Some people have more of a tendency to latch on to the fact they're looking through a device and don't 'let go' and the magic doesn't happen. It's also probably situation dependent; your mind is less likely to let go of your actual environment and focus on the virtual if there are distractions or anything you're concerned about in your surroundings (e.g. it will be less likely for some people while in stores and at conferences etc.).
Re:VR by schnelle on Friday January 13, 2017 @03:24PM (#13394387)
I have a Vive and agree. I personally don't see the SDE but I think I need glasses. The visual issue for me is not being able to look away from dead-center where it's the sharpest.

I read once that in VR "geometry matters more than textures" and I totally agree with that. Some of the most immersive moments I've had in VR are when I was peeking around a corner. The graphics were all simple, but the geometry of the corner and connecting corridor are what gave me such a great sense of presence.

I've written software for nearly 20 years now and I don't want to do anything other than VR development. It's the new frontier.

Re:VR by dilap on Saturday January 14, 2017 @11:11AM (#13399006)
are you doing vr dev?
Re:VR by mwseibel on Friday January 13, 2017 @03:02PM (#13394220)
100% agree - this is how I am going to explain it from now on
Re:VR by throwaway_374 on Sunday January 15, 2017 @05:41AM (#13403415)
I think the closest I experienced to this was when I first discovered Second Life. My dreams after an evening on Second Life were insanely realistic. That thrill of addiction sounds familiar, almost like a dopamine chasing rat.
Re:VR by MorePowerToYou on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:57PM (#13394178)
I found the initial experience very compelling, too. Unfortunately, that initial thrill wears off fast. I challenge you to buy a Vive and report back in a few months with your daily usage level.
Re:VR by nsxwolf on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:04PM (#13394693)
My daily usage level has dropped, but mostly it is due to the lack of new interesting software. When you read this thread, or /r/Vive or anywhere else, it's always the same story: people talking enthusiastically about games that came out months ago. The same ones, over and over. Space Pirate Trainer. Holopoint. H3VR. Job Simulator.

I'm really bored of those.

Re:VR by andybak on Friday January 13, 2017 @11:14PM (#13396832)
Easy - as that time period includes the Oculus Touch launch titles.

That gives me:

1. SuperHot

2. Arizona Sunshine

3. The Unspoken

4. Dead and Buried

Looking through Steam sorted by user reviews: http://store.steampowered.com/search/?sort_by=Reviews_DESC&t...

Gives me another easy set. I'll stick to things I own or I've heard almost universally good things about:

5. Smashbox Arena

6. Sairento

7. QuivR

8. Distance

9. Bullet Sorrow

10. Vertigo

11. Serious Sam: TFE

12: Bullet Sorrow

13: Werewolves Within

14: ROM Extraction

There's more but I got bored. I can personally vouch for the excellence of at least 5 of those.

Re:VR by nsxwolf on Saturday January 14, 2017 @06:06PM (#13401156)
Thanks for this reply. Did not know SuperHot had a VR version. I definitely will check that out at least.
Re:VR by andybak on Sunday January 15, 2017 @09:20PM (#13407845)
It's short but it's astonishing. Totally worth it.

I can't imagine how the game works not in VR.

Re:VR by thegeomaster on Saturday January 14, 2017 @09:21AM (#13398470)
I hear that Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes is very immersive in its VR incarnation, if you're into that sort of thing.
Re:VR by andybak on Friday January 13, 2017 @06:45PM (#13395794)
Define 'months'. I can name half a dozen games of equal quality that came out in the last 6 weeks.
Re:VR by nsxwolf on Friday January 13, 2017 @10:36PM (#13396705)
Please do! Really! Because I'm looking for great new experiences and not finding much.
Re:VR by andybak on Saturday January 14, 2017 @06:14AM (#13397935)
(Sorry - I did but accidentally replied to your original comment by mistake: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13396832 )
Re:VR by tpolischuk on Friday January 13, 2017 @07:04PM (#13395909)
Elite dangerous (if you're into realistic space sims) could easily eat 1000+ hours of gameplay.
Re:VR by jibjibman on Monday January 16, 2017 @01:39PM (#13411910)
Have had the Vive since 1 month after launch, use it almost every day for a few hours. Just got Elite Dangerous set up as well so I expect to be using it even more. Other games I usually play are smashbox arena, and Onward, as well as Holopoint, Space Pirate Trainer, Audio Shield and Audio Beats. Tilt brush is also amazing for drawing in. There is so much content to play its great.
Re:VR by problems on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:11PM (#13394738)
Interesting. I've got a 4k setup with a GTX 1080 at home right now. I'm sort of debating about a Vive or another 1080 when I've got some extra cash to blow.

The Vive seems harder to rationalize because it seems like a really expensive toy with only a few crappy games for it. Am I wrong about this? Is the VR really worth it? I keep reading awful things about the resolution and about motion sickness issues - I care very much about those things.

I'd have an easier time with it if the resolution was doubled and it was closer to a $500 price point. But as is it just seems crazy to pay that much to have a way lower resolution screen than my current monitor strapped an inch from my eyes.

Re:VR by romaniv on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:39PM (#13394934)
The coolest thing about VR right now isn't the visuals, it's the controllers. Being able to move around and interact with things in virtual space is a very powerful experience/concept. I can actually see some future apps/games using controllers without the goggles.
Re:VR by glitch003 on Friday January 13, 2017 @06:19PM (#13395663)
> I can actually see some future apps/games using controllers without the goggles

This reminds me of the Nintendo Wii and Wii Tennis and all those other Wii sports games that were really fun.

Re:VR by specialist on Saturday January 14, 2017 @08:24AM (#13398268)
"...after the first minute I started feeling more and more immersed..."

VR = immersion.

The gear, resolution, tech is all details.

Given my loose definition, we've had VR for years. Dr Dan Bricklin once asked me (rhetorically): where are you during a (deep) phone conversation? Here? There? Both?

AR is when the gear matters as much as than the story.

Source: Gadfly during the first VR hype cycle.

Re:VR by freehunter on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:05PM (#13394699)
Imagine people saying this about Doom when it was released. The graphics don't look photo-realistic, you can see the individual pixels, you can't look up and down, man I don't think this 3D gaming thing is going to catch on.

Everything you mention are very (very) simple technical limitations on what are basically proof-of-concept devices. If you think we don't have the technical capability to put higher-resolution screens in there, or to make better graphics, or to extend the FOV... the only problem right now is cost. The reason for these limitations is cost. They're solving the hard problems before tackling the easy ones because we already know how to solve the easy problems. Solving easy problems doesn't get you hundreds of millions of dollars worth of startup investment. And screen resolution is definitively an "easy" problem to solve.

The YC post didn't say "VR is perfect today", it said "VR is going to get a lot better". You have to be able to see into the future and determine what problems are solvable and what problems may never be solved. All of the problems you see with current VR are ones that are easily solvable (except maybe immersion, but you'd have to actually define what that actually means).

Re:VR by specialist on Saturday January 14, 2017 @08:32AM (#13398289)
"Imagine people saying this about Doom when it was released."

Nope. We were blown away.

Even knowing full well we'd eventually have real-time photorealistically rendered worlds to explore, surgery to perform, molecules to inspect... The early advances were exciting.

"Everything you mention are very (very) simple technical limitations on what are basically proof-of-concept devices."

VR has some thorny non-gear problems to solve. Human physiology ain't simple.

Re:VR by iplaw on Friday January 13, 2017 @11:14PM (#13396828)
I'm very aware of the direction of VR/AR. Prior to my new line of work, I assisted corporations with invention mining in the head mounted display tech area. Despite having fairly intimate knowledge of the tech and what's currently unreleased prototype stage, I had minimal first hand experience.

HoloLens are the biggest let down. That FOV was unusable.

Maybe mercurial MagicLeap is doing AR the right way.

Re:VR by rimantas on Saturday January 14, 2017 @07:10AM (#13398063)
Being able to focus sight on far or on nearby object at will is also a simple problem and already solved in VR? (I honestly have no idea). Until it is solved there is no R in VR.
Re:VR by frabcus on Saturday January 14, 2017 @11:53AM (#13399246)
The ability to focus in VR using your own eyes requires a light field display - that is something which sends light rays from arbitrary angles into your eyes, and your eyes focus them.

Magic Leap has an augmented reality device that does that, although not launched yet.

My feeling is that light field displays will massively increase sense of reality - and reports of people using Magic Leap back that up.

However, I don't think it's necessary for lots of use of VR or AR.

Re:VR by eduren on Friday January 13, 2017 @01:55PM (#13393538)
I can see why the current issues might bring someone out of immersion. But from somebody who owns a Vive, I think having a more personal experience is key to getting the most out of it (for now).

When you describe the binocular effect, I know what you mean, however my experience is that all those issues fade away once your brain "accepts" the inputs and starts filtering out the noise. How long did you get to demo the Vive? In my experience (and those I've demonstrated to) it takes a bit. These days, if I'm in an engaging game, I'll lose the peripheral darkness on an unconscious level in the same way I'll lose the world outside a monitor when playing an engaging PC game.

Re:VR by cr0sh on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:19PM (#13393818)
> When you describe the binocular effect, I know what you mean, however my experience is that all those issues fade away once your brain "accepts" the inputs and starts filtering out the noise.

Personally, as someone who owned and purchased some of the early HMDs of the 1990s - these kind of comments look "interesting" to me. I mean, people are complaining about the "low FOV and resolution" - when they clearly never had to use HMDs with 20 degree FOV and 320 x 240 resolutions...

Today's HMDs are things we only dreamed about (and those who could get close to this - well, those HMDs cost more than an automobile.

Regarding the "filtering out the noise" - we used to call this "seeing past or beyond the pixels". It was purely psychological or something going on (I think there were studies done on the effect). There came a point where you stopped noticing the pixels, and/or the low FOV - and it all just started looking much better than it did. The key, though, was to stop focusing on the issue - which some people couldn't.

Re:VR by falcolas on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:07PM (#13394719)
> they clearly never had to use HMDs with 20 degree FOV and 320 x 240 resolutions...

Being better than what they had in the 90's doesn't mean it's good. It's still too low - like trying to view 4k content on a 720p display.

> The key, though, was to stop focusing on the issue - which some people couldn't.

Or the low resolution is thrown in your face. For example, attempting to view a virtual poster on a somewhat distant virtual wall. It's large enough that you should be able to read it, but the resolution is so low you can't.

Nothing pops you out of that immersion faster than having the fact you're looking at low resolution display thrown in your face.

Re:VR by andybak on Friday January 13, 2017 @06:49PM (#13395821)
It's an problem the medium has to solve the way every other medium handles it's technological constraints. Pop music production was partly a way to handle the constraints of AM radio. Opera's vocal style was the result of the clash of large venues, growing orchestra's and the desire for solo vocals.

If VR can't render readable posters then good artists will stop putting posters in VR.

Re:VR by ska on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:32PM (#13393962)
Surely today's HMDs could be both much better than earlier generations, and not nearly good enough yet?
Re:VR by benmcnelly on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:01PM (#13393623)
Yes, demoing things are using it every day are two different things. One issue for this tech is, you can show someone, they have to experience it - and for some things you need to actively use it to get your VR legs and really start being able to appreciate it.

The best analogy I have heard is that VR is experienced in layers, and the time it takes to settle into deeper and deeper levels is different for everyone.

Re:VR by ihm on Friday January 13, 2017 @10:35PM (#13396699)
My experience with Oculus blew me away. The following three things specifically:

1. Medium, a sculpting program[1]. This tool lets you build 3D sculptures. The intuitiveness of the controls and the ease with which you can make these gigantic sculptures feels amazing. I think things like this are going to have a huge effect on how art is made. It's such an empowering experience to be able to so easily make these huge pieces of art.

2. RiftSketch[2]. This is just a simple demo, but it puts you in an open plane where you can modify the world around you by writing Javascript in an in-world console. Again, the feeling of empowerment in being able to alter your world so easily was really cool.

3. The Unspoken[3]. This is a game where you're a wizard and shoot fireballs and things at other wizards. Not sure what to say about it but it was really fun.

[1]: https://youtu.be/KX-UyFCUfa8?t=1406 [2]: https://github.com/brianpeiris/RiftSketch [3]: http://www.insomniacgames.com/games/the-unspoken/

Re:VR by satysin on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:05PM (#13393669)
I feel the same as you tbh. Does the geek in me love it? Sure! But if I take that out of the equation and look at things as they actually are then I still feel VR has a long way to go.
Re:VR by sevensor on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:18PM (#13394784)
I'm old enough to remember the last VR boom. I was even lucky enough to work in a CAVE for a bit. That hype train derailed around 2000. The same promises were made, the same breathless enthusiasm, the same feeling that we were about to ascend into the cybernetic matrix. It didn't turn out that way, and the only thing that's fundamentally changed is that the hardware is cheaper. This is going to bankrupt some investors, and the remaining companies will serve a niche market.
Re:VR by tpolischuk on Friday January 13, 2017 @07:28PM (#13396011)
The hardware is not just cheaper, but its orders of magnitude more powerful. There have also been two huge breakthroughs that I think make this wave the real deal, sub mm motion controller tracking and 90 fps to the eye.
Re:VR by sevensor on Sunday January 15, 2017 @10:16AM (#13404325)
The CAVE was driven by a big honkin' SGI computer in a machine room next door. It was powerful enough.
Re:VR by mozumder on Saturday January 14, 2017 @12:27AM (#13397056)
Those are the least of its problems.

The big problem with VR is the product liability issues.

Re:VR by sevensor on Sunday January 15, 2017 @12:52PM (#13405230)
Honestly, I think the problem with VR is that people outside the bubble don't actually want it.
Re:VR by e12e on Sunday January 15, 2017 @07:52PM (#13407510)
> the only thing that's fundamentally changed is that the hardware is cheaper.

The same thing might have been said about the commodore 64. Hardware being accessible to the (rich) consumer vs only to research labs and businesses is enough of a difference to create new industries!

Re:VR by spilk on Friday January 13, 2017 @01:57PM (#13393566)
I very much get the same sense from the uptick in VR over the past year or two that I did when 3D TV was all the craze several years ago - kind of interesting, but in practice not very good
Re:VR by rpdillon on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:14PM (#13393763)
Interesting. I got a PSVR over the holidays, and had everyone in my family try it out. Experiences were mixed, but trended strongly towards 'blown away' (the major exception was my mom, who was underwhelmed). I'm genuinely blown away by the immersion of the games is Virtual Worlds, and have played hours of Thumper in VR, which is my favorite game of 2016. I did find the more 'room scale' games to not work as well with the setup, though (I'm looking at you HoloBall) but that might just be that my play area isn't set up correctly for it.

My experience was the opposite of yours: I expected a lot, and was still happily surprised by the results. Head tracking is excellent, no motion sickness at all, and consistently high framerates made the experience extraordinary immersive for me. I love just spending time in Windlands and Robinson.

Like you, though, I look forward to higher resolutions and field of view, but I'm a very happy customer with the current setup. I guess we'll see how I feel in a few months!

Re:VR by musha68k on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:43PM (#13394957)
IMHO presence wise we are there already, even with the PSVR (especially the PSVR in my case, prefer cockpit/controller based games). The resolution maybe needs a bit of imagination to make up for but again presence as described by John Carmack has been delivered by almost all of the devices you listed.
Re:VR by xd1936 on Friday January 13, 2017 @01:51PM (#13393481)
This brings up another point... VR is much more dependent on the user's body characteristics than past technologies. One person's eye distance and head/body shape can be a completely different experience from someone else's.

One person, like you, can have a much worse view and experience than someone else.

Re:VR by moron4hire on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:45PM (#13394068)
I'd say you were probably just very jaded going in already. I've ran literally hundreds of people through the HTC Vive (my company ran a popup VR arcade for a while as a marketing stunt) and 95%+ people said they were completely blown away.
Re:VR by taternuts on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:27PM (#13393899)
I went to the VR Expo in downtown LA recently where I had to wait in line for over an hour to play for 2 minutes on the vive with the full setup. It was 'kinda cool', I suppose. On the way out they mistook me for the next in line and offered to have me play another 2 minutes on another game but it just wasn't cool enough for me to waste any more time.
Re:VR by JabavuAdams on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:02PM (#13394675)
If the content is engaging enough, and you go in with a receptive mindset, you shouldn't notice things like screen-door, etc. These are hallmarks of a developer or technologist / tester mindset.

I find Valve's the Lab demos to be very, very good. If you're looking for pixels, then the experience isn't fun enough.

Re:VR by tchock23 on Friday January 13, 2017 @09:04PM (#13396402)
How long were your demos? Have you tried VR for an extended period of time (1+ hours without a break)?

The limitations you mention are absolutely issues, but they start to fade away and the feeling of immersion rises the longer you are in it. YMMV though.

Re:VR by Macha on Friday January 13, 2017 @08:04PM (#13396168)
I didn't think it could be much, but my first experience using the gear for a game of keep talking and nobody explodes convinced me otherwise. Even seeing the pixels and with the awful control method of that implementation (a classic iPod esque scroll wheel on the side of the headset which didn't map to the game that well), it was easy to get immersed.

Go up to using a rift or vice for Elite with my hotas and i can see it being awesome. Planning to get either a rift or vive this year.

Re:VR by driverdan on Saturday January 14, 2017 @10:12AM (#13398702)
You're an outlier. Everyone I've observed trying VR for the first time (even Galaxy Gear) has been impressed. I've watched hundreds of people try VR because I love seeing their reactions. VIVE and HoloLens get the best response since they are the most immersive but even Galaxy Gear usually gets a shocked response.
Re:VR by andybak on Friday January 13, 2017 @06:43PM (#13395785)
"Hyperbole" implies you think he's not being honest but then later you say "I feel like I the only one that feels such disappointment" which suggests you do think it's a genuine reaction which you are in the minority by not sharing.

So - which is it?

Re:VR by iplaw on Friday January 13, 2017 @11:18PM (#13396839)
They are only contrary given your flawed understanding of my first sentence.
Re:VR by andybak on Saturday January 14, 2017 @06:15AM (#13397937)
Given you took the time to point that out, a clarification would have been helpful.
Re:VR by Kiro on Saturday January 14, 2017 @04:12AM (#13397626)
It sounds like you should go and see a doctor. Maybe you lack something neurological that prevents you from experiencing it the way people usually do.
Re:VR by zamalek on Saturday January 14, 2017 @01:44AM (#13397261)
> Hyperbole of the century.

Everyone has had different experiences with VR. To call another person's personal experience a hyperbole is disingenuous.

Re:VR by RangerScience on Friday January 13, 2017 @02:05PM (#13393660)
Curious for reasons, but did you have a chance to try anything by Daqri?
Re:VR by iplaw on Friday January 13, 2017 @11:19PM (#13396845)
I tried every single AR/VR HMD at CES 2017. So if they were there and they had a demo, yes.