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Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by cromwellian on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:04AM (#6681030)
It's ironic that when the Chinese attack against Google occurred, we thought the Chinese government was the most hostile state actor threat to worry about, but it turned out to be the US and UK government.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by tokenadult on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @08:13AM (#6682488)
China is a much more hostile state actor in how it would use any information it gathers up, especially to a free-enterprise company like Google.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by drzaiusapelord on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @12:13PM (#6683770)
That's quite a claim. Right now the NSA holds privileged information for millions of Americans. What happens if one of those people becomes some populist political entity. It would be trivial for the NSA to leak dirt of any kind (sexual fetishes, hangups, private emails to wife, other private things that when taken to the public would look bad, trash talking others, etc) to help discredit this person. Imagine that this person ran on a platform for cutting down the NSA or reforming the intelligence agencies. How "protected" do you think this "metadata" would be?

The Chinese wouldn't do that to me. They don't have a dog in this fight.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by largehotcoffee on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:53PM (#6684588)
That's quite a claim.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by jlgreco on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:55PM (#6685042)
US Government agencies using "dirt" to smear and/or blackmail populist political figures is a historic fact.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by rallison on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @04:14PM (#6685548)
Exactly. See Martin Luther King Jr [0] as an example. Private information obtained through surveillance was leaked by government agencies in an attempt to discredit him.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#FBI_an...

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by drzaiusapelord on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @04:15PM (#6685556)
I know a lot of Snowden's and Assanges' sex life and many, many personal details. I've never actively seeked out that information.

Also, the US has proven experience in smearing political characters. Heck, even John fucking Lennon had an FBI file full of personal information.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by rfnslyr on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @03:50PM (#6685419)
It would have also been "quite a claim" awhile back about the NSA collecting anything and everything about citizens. I don't get your comment.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by n09n on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @10:17PM (#6687233)
They don't have a dog in that fight because you specifically chose the fight to make that true. If the same person ran on a different platform that argued for, say, boycotting or tariffing Chinese green energy products in order to build up local industries, the Chinese would care but the NSA would not.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by eliasmacpherson on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @08:30AM (#6682544)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial...

Airbus might disagree with you there, I can't see the NSA ratting Boeing out for supplying bribes.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by anologwintermut on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @10:40AM (#6683202)
Ironically, at the time it would appear that the NSA was probably prohibited from spying on at least US-based Boing personnel. In fact, even today, they claim they'd be prohibited from looking at it(though not collecting it or analyzing meta data which is the whole problem) at least as far as the people involved are US Persons.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by eliasmacpherson on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @10:59AM (#6683309)
I think I see what you are getting at, but surely a trade with a foreign nation like Saudi Arabia - because the Saudi's are foreign, the NSA would have always had the remit to spy on the transaction?
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by forgotAgain on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @08:40AM (#6682584)
I used to think much the same. These days however the unchecked secret security apparatus of the United States is a sword over the necks of it's citizens' freedom.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by cenhyperion on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @08:39PM (#6686924)
I'd argue that the NSA is actively destroying more american business right now by discouraging large international companies from doing business with US based technology and web companies.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by babar on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:09AM (#6681057)
Why do people assume the Chinese government is not able to use similar techniques?
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by grey-area on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:21AM (#6681098)
China doesn't have agreements with BT, AT&T etc which allow it to tap fibre in our countries at will. I'm sure they try some tapping, but they can't do it on the scale that GCHQ and the NSA have been outside China.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by macmac on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @05:15AM (#6681916)
The Chinese do not need any agreements to tap undersea cables and are more than capable of doing just that.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by redblacktree on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @07:05AM (#6682256)
Sure, but they don't have the "home field advantage" that the NSA does, whereby much of the core internet infrastructure is housed in the US. I forget the exact number, but something like 70% of the world's internet traffic transits the US. (they mention this constantly in NSA-related articles)
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by ewbuoi on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @08:18AM (#6682505)
But how much of the core infrastructure is made by the Chinese?
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by redblacktree on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @11:47AM (#6683621)
An astute question, considering the strange wifi-chips-in-irons story.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by jonknee on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @07:16AM (#6682289)
Are they? That's a very complicated thing to pull off and China isn't known for having the most advanced Navy (e.g. they can't secure their own oil tankers in the Persian Gulf) and they only have a small number of submarines.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by ojbyrne on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:11AM (#6681285)
But they could easily have agreements with every chip fab to build back doors into every piece of networking equipment.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by Wingman4l7 on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:42AM (#6681397)
This is exactly why Australia is very leery of letting the Chinese telecom hardware manufacturer Huawei have any of the contracts for networking hardware on the nascent National Broadband Network -- they are suspected of having ties to the Chinese government / army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Security_concerns
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by w_t_payne on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @07:46AM (#6682385)
My sister in law works for Huawei in Kenya. Her job (so far) has largely involved ripping out Siemens made mobile-telephony infrastructure and replacing it with Huawei-made mobile-telephony infrastructure. Such are today's instruments of empire.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by nl on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @05:03AM (#6681893)
You can packet-trace networking equipment you own.

You can't packet-trace a cloned switch port you don't know about.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by ekianjo on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:19AM (#6681306)
That's very unlikely nobody would have noticed them by now, if it were the case.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by bhrgunatha on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @03:42AM (#6681617)
Do you mean - as unlikely as not spotting the weakening of encryption standards - for example by another branch of the same government (NIST/NSA)?
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by astrange on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @04:49AM (#6681840)
Those were spotted.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by kamjam on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @03:05PM (#6685097)
eventually.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by babesh on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @03:05AM (#6681494)
So can the US.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by Spooky23 on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @08:53AM (#6682634)
How do you know that?
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by wmf on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:17AM (#6681081)
I would assume they use similar techniques within China and perhaps allied countries like North Korea and Cuba, but the US is performing wiretapping in at least the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Also, how much non-Chinese Internet traffic passes through China?
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by maaku on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:36AM (#6681162)
> and perhaps allied countries like North Korea and Cuba

Nobody is more distrusting of each other than two communist countries.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by nzp on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @08:44AM (#6682596)
Disregarding for a moment that a state can not be communist (one defining characteristic of communism being absence of state), only socialist, North Korea has long disassociated itself from communism. Since the 90s at least there has been a systematic removal of any mention of Marxism, communism and related terminology from the constitution, laws and official discourse.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by kika on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:54AM (#6681224)
Well, when you eat off the hand of the other country you don't have much choice. Nobody actually asks you if you trust or not.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by boyaka on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:32AM (#6681360)
http://hidemyass.com/proxy-list/

I'm sure lots of botnets use China servers as well.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by tantalor on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:19AM (#6681089)
The Chinese were targeting specific journalists and critics. Presumably to harass them.

I'm not saying the US doesn't do that, but the evidence is not as clear.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by samstave on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:32AM (#6681139)
Maybe you didn't notice the detainment of Greenwald's partner by the GCHQ whereby they demanded him to turn-over/destroy whatever he had.

Further, the break-in to Greenwald's residence and theft of his machine.

As well as the visit to the Guardian and destrution of machines....

The evidence is crystal.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by vidarh on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:06AM (#6681274)
As much as the UK government would probably love being confused for the US government, at least the visit to the Guardian and detainment of Miranda were both done by the UK.

And given how the UK government loves nothing more than to be the lapdog of the US, I have no doubts it was done entirely voluntarily.

Eagerly even, as an opportunity to show off just how extra exceedingly loyal minions they are.

Frankly, I have little doubt that the UK government participates so eagerly that just occasionally some of their US counterparts must be a little bit embarrassed on their behalf over seeing their total lack of self respect in trying to impress.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by XorNot on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @07:34PM (#6686666)
Except you know, in that case the person actually did have classified documents of an allied nation on a thumbdrive on them.

Which you know - is still illegal to have. Though it's funny how the Guardian thoroughly underreported that fact.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by simoncion on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @08:54PM (#6686976)
When I last checked, in the US, it's actually not illegal for someone without a clearance to possess classified material. This is why newspapers can print unredacted classified documents and not immediately go to jail.

It is, however illegal for someone with a clearance to mishandle classified material. "Mishandling" includes "Permitting access to classified material to non-cleared personnel.". If you mishandle classified material you may be reprimanded, have your clearance revoked, be fined, or go to jail for a very long time.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by XorNot on Thursday November 07, 2013 @01:54AM (#6687990)
It's also illegal to traffic it across international borders, which is why what foreign spies do is prosecutable. Which is the exact thing they were doing.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by alandarev on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @03:43AM (#6681620)
Exactly my thought. Making me embarrassed to a singel fact that I live in UK, as that happened.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by tantalor on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:14AM (#6681293)
Good point, but the Greenwald-Snowden case is a little different. We all know the identities of the informants. The issue with the harassment of Miranda has nothing to do with espionage, it's just heavy handed.

In the case of the Chinese hackers, they were spying on reporters to discover their sources.

What they appeared to be looking for were the names of people who might have provided information to Mr. Barboza.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/technology/chinese-hackers...

AFAIK we don't have evidence of similar US spying for the purpose of blackmail, harassment, etc. because my concern is whether the NSA might use its sources for those ends.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by youngtaff on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @08:09AM (#6682475)
The destruction of the Guardian's laptops was about ensuring they didn't get stolen by someone else - if you read the story at the time, the spooks actually wanted the Guardian to hand the laptops over but Guardian refused and destruction was a mutually agreed way out.

Miranda's detainment, confiscation of the memory sticks etc was to be expected - as far as the UK Government is concerned he's carry stolen state secrets.

What I don't really understand is why he flew through London carrying them, I believe Madrid has more routes to South American - I wonder if he was routed so he would be picked up for massive publicity.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by lawnchair_larry on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:48AM (#6681208)
They weren't actually. Google lied about that. It came out later that the real reason for the Chinese hacking gmail was to see which accounts had "lawful intercept" on them so they would know if their own spies had their cover blown. If the US knew about their spies, it was assumed that they would see the US sniffing the spies gmail accounts.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-05-20/world/39385755...

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by magicalist on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:05AM (#6681266)
> Google lied about that

Huh? There's nothing in the Post's information that would preclude both from having happened, so it's would be a stretch to call it a lie even from that article. But in fact, the original blog post[1] talks about multiple goals of the main attack, including listing the targeted attack that the GP is probably referencing as independent from the attack that "resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google". I think it's you that's confusing incidents.

> Third, as part of this investigation but independent of the attack on Google, we have discovered that the accounts of dozens of U.S.-, China- and Europe-based Gmail users who are advocates of human rights in China appear to have been routinely accessed by third parties. These accounts have not been accessed through any security breach at Google, but most likely via phishing scams or malware placed on the users' computers.

edit: ah, and the GP wasn't even talking about the gmail accounts.

[1] http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china...

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by tantalor on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:02AM (#6681257)
I was referring to the NYT attacks,

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/technology/chinese-hackers...

Also, what kind of spy uses gmail? Sheesh.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by Amadou on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:09AM (#6681281)
Also, what kind of spy uses gmail? Sheesh.

The kind that is trying to maintain cover as a non-spy so uses the same email services as everybody else.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by tantalor on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:15AM (#6681297)
Sure but only an idiot uses their personal email account for work, right? Especially if your work can get you killed.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by kbenson on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:28AM (#6681338)
The point being made isn't that they would send sensitive data using gmail, it's that if they were compromised the NSA would most likely be reading the emails, and hacking Google would theoretically let the Chinese know if cover was blown if they could see evidence of the NSA listening in.

Of course, that means the joke's on them, because the NSA was listening to everyone...

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by ithkuil on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @09:53AM (#6682934)
how would you know whether NSA was listening in (for example by tapping google's links between datacenters) or not even if you successfully hack into Google's infrastructure? Not finding evidence of eavesdropping doesn't exclude that eavesdropping happened, so if that was the only purpose to hack Google, it doesn't seem worth the effort.

On the other hand if you want to read people's mail, then hacking into the provider is certainly an option.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by kbenson on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @11:26AM (#6683485)
I'm not sure I necessarily buy that explanation either, but I don't know enough of the facts of this particular story to know where it falls down or is supported.

On the other hand, we don't really know what the Chinese knew, or thought they knew, about Google and how it functioned WRT government surveillance. If they had reason to believe that Google would be cooperating with authorities and would have infrastructure in place to monitor email accounts that they could look for and identify if it was monitoring the accounts they were looking for, then this explanation makes a bit more sense.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by atmosx on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @07:40AM (#6682357)
Why on Earth are you comparing a suppressive regime to the a western democracy?

Of course the Chinese gov is able to do so without any repercussions. The difference should be that in a democracy you can't abuse your power without repercussions.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by eyeareque on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @12:13PM (#6683769)
<i>"The difference should be that in a democracy you can't abuse your power without repercussions."</i>

Do you see the irony? Western governments are abusing their powers.. and they are getting away with it. Democracy means nothing if the government doesn't hold itself accountable.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by dragonwriter on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @12:14PM (#6683774)
No, democracy means nothing if the people don't hold the government accountable.

Relying on the government to hold itself accountable makes democracy no different from monarchy.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by eyeareque on Thursday November 07, 2013 @03:37PM (#6692215)
Right, but as long as cable tv works and fast food restaurants are open the mass majority of people won't do anything about it.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by zurn on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @11:15AM (#6683408)
Maybe it "should" but democracy and domestic popular opinion doesn't traditionally have a significant impact on US foreign policy. Except for big wars.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by pavs on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:18AM (#6681082)
More importantly, whats the difference between Chinese and American government when it comes to privacy?
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by coldtea on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:30AM (#6681131)
That the US intervenes domestically and in Europe, L. America, Middle East, etc, whereas China is mostly concerned with itself.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by tedunangst on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:30AM (#6681134)
The terrible things the Chinese government does aren't being done to you.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by kyllo on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @01:41AM (#6681180)
Those things aren't being done to most Chinese people, either. And they are being done to some Americans now, and increasingly so.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by Qantourisc on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @02:36AM (#6681376)
The Chinese are honest about it !
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by logicallee on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @07:08AM (#6682267)
Because they have hundreds of their employees doing shifts of skript kiddie hacking over the open Internet. That is why "people assume the Chinese government is not able to use similar techniques."
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by repnescasb on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @03:10AM (#6681513)
no, YOU thought of China as terribly hostile. We in Europe know the deal for a very long time. It's not like there was no cold war and vietnam war and irak war and....
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by basch on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @10:03AM (#6682997)
Why did the US jump in priority. Just because it is a problem doesn't mean it is a bigger problem.

I think US journalism is causing us to misprioritize. Everyone is talking about the NSA so everyone assumes it's the biggest problem.

http://mag.newsweek.com/2013/11/01/edward-snowden-escalated-...

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by snowwrestler on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @11:57AM (#6683686)
The use of equivalent technology does not imply equivalent outcomes or moral standing.

At a minimum the U.S. and UK spying needs to be balanced against the fact that U.S. and UK citizens invented the core technologies of the Internet, and gave them to the world for free.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by zurn on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @11:28AM (#6683505)
I wonder why people aren't using calling the current unpleaseantness attacks (or war).
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by grecy on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @11:50AM (#6683645)
I want them charged with unlawful access to a computer system
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by girvo on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @12:02PM (#6683713)
Gosh that would be the perfect example of poetic justice.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by gadders on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @04:17AM (#6681727)
On the whole, I think I'd rather be spied on by an ally rather than a dictatorship.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by nl on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @05:01AM (#6681887)
I live in a "Western", English speaking democracy, with friendly relations with both the US and China.

Our biggest trading partner is China, and we have a free-trade agreement with the US.

Who exactly is our ally again?

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by speeder on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @05:23AM (#6681936)
As a Brazilian that had ti witness the effects of US alliance during cold war... No, hell no. With a friend like that, who needs enemies?
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by gadders on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @05:27AM (#6681946)
You had enemies in the cold war. The USSR was much, much worse.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by speeder on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @07:18AM (#6682293)
Things US did for Brazil:

Sent aircraft carriers, ships and soldiers to help depose a democratically elected president, just because he wanted closer ties with China and wanted to do agrarian reform.

Disappeared lots of people (I don't know any personally, because I am too young, but I DO know personally lots of people that still want disappeared people back)

Spied on us (erm, that part still applies, no?).

Sabotaged our agriculture (ie: some plagues started after US agrarian engineers visited us to "help" with our agricultural technology).

Supported and funded very repressive crazy dictators that killed boatloads of people.

What the USSR did for us during the cold war: Gave us some really cool technical books in spanish (yes, our language is portuguese, but spanish is good enough), I still have a bunch of them, they are really good, somewhere around my house there is calculus books, structural engineering, and lots of other cool stuff, russian books but written in spanish, targeted at Latin America.

USSR borrowed us some scientists (Russia and Ucraine still do, by the way).

Helped our exiles, not only left wing ones, but right wing ones too.

Sold us some very interesting stuff, even if shitty sometimes (example: during the cold war Lada cars were very popular here).

Computers! (for example when some companies here tried to develop a computer compatible with the Macintosh, US government helped Apple in forcing them to stop, while Russians borrowed us some engineers and books)

Now, who were our real enemies in cold war again?

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by joyeuse6701 on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @10:39AM (#6683196)
nice propaganda. cold war was about influence. the super powers would do any and everything to gain a foothold in another country. feel free to ask any polish citizen about the friendliness of Soviet Russia, they may welcome your speech with a punch in the face for the sake of those who suffered and died because their brethren spread similar idiotic notions of "the Soviets are our friends look at these free Russian texts and cars and..."
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by speeder on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @03:49PM (#6685413)
It is not a question of propaganda.

It is just that this is what happened to us in Brazil, and USA never gave any clear indication that it wants to improve its behaviour.

So, why should we trust it now, if we could never trust it in first place?

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by gadders on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @09:53AM (#6682937)
Things the US did for Europe:

Stopped us getting nuked or invaded by the USSR

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by kamjam on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @03:11PM (#6685145)
Don't believe everything you watch in hollywood movies.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by gadders on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @03:30PM (#6685294)
Hollywood movies? I suppose all the USSR missiles were imaginary? They never really invaded Czechoslovakia?
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by kamjam on Thursday November 07, 2013 @09:35AM (#6689493)
And I suppose you believe the US has single handed saved Europe from WWII, the Enigma machine was captured by the US crew of U-571 and Inglorious Bastards was fact.

The fact is reality is much more complex than your simple statement which is further skewed by Hollywood.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by blei on Thursday November 07, 2013 @10:37AM (#6689908)
...that's irrelevant to what he was saying.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by jeltz on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @05:40AM (#6681985)
Are you sure they were? As far as I can tell the US has done more damage in Latin America than any USSR meddling. Stalin was really bad but the USSR was not ruled by Stalin for that long.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by gadders on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @05:52AM (#6682028)
The US in Central America weren't angels, for sure, but I doubt if the USSR funding of left-wing groups was any better.

Stalin was a mad man on a par with Hitler, but even under later leaders it was still a repressive regime with Gulags.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by pessimizer on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @06:11AM (#6682079)
>I doubt if the USSR funding of left-wing groups was any better.

When you say that you doubt it, is that code for having no idea of the impact of Soviet funding in South America, but not being willing to say that you don't know? Or is it just that you know that everything bad that the US did was to counter something even worse that the evil USSR was doing?

Missile gap?

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by gadders on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @06:37AM (#6682157)
It's code for the funding of Right Wing Groups by the US having been publicised more widely than the funding of Left Wing Groups by the USSR.

However, Cuba is a repressive dictatorship which will was funded by the USSR for many years.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by desas on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @08:07AM (#6682467)
Previous to that, it was a repressive dictatorship which was funded by the USA for many years...
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by FridayWithJohn on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @04:35AM (#6681784)
Completely disagree with that. That is like saying you would prefer to have your own brother punch you in your face than a stranger.

It hurts a lot more because you are meant to look out for each other, not distrust and stab each others back.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by gadders on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @05:21AM (#6681927)
Well I trust what the US does with the information more than China. It's like Tiannamen Square never happened.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by mverwijs on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @05:31AM (#6681957)
You trust the US of today. That is your right and well, that is fine.

But who is to speak for tomorrow? None of us can tell what the future brings. Not me and not you. So who is to say that in ten years, when that data is still there, that the US is still worthy of your trust?

It is the future we should distrust, even if you trust the past, and the present.

Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by gadders on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @05:50AM (#6682018)
A fair point. Distrust of governments is a healthy position to have.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by jeltz on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @05:37AM (#6681978)
Tiannamen Square is believed to greatly affected Chinese politics, mostly for the better. They do not like talking about it but they have done much to prevent something like that from happening again.
Re:Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys" by bocalogic on Wednesday November 06, 2013 @08:46AM (#6682598)
No way! Do you think 9/11 could have been an inside job? :-)