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Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by tangotaylor on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @09:40AM (#50454005)
Here is the referenced publication. Pages 13-14 show the structures. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X2...
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by alpineman on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @09:58AM (#50454252)
Did his Gemini AI agents just use Google search, find the publication, check the coords, and claim it as a discovery? Ha
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by nerevarthelame on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:13AM (#50454398)
This is a good example of the difference between an LLM providing a theorem and a person deducing theorem, and all the juicy knowledge we get from truly understanding things: the Google SWE found something he thought was undiscovered. He asked AI to make an image what it might've looked like and speculated that it was used by the local elite.

But Dr. Estrada-Belli found something that was undiscovered. Finding this structure wasn't his number one goal - it was the side effect of a larger anthropological assessment that allowed him to improve estimates about population density of the north versus south, how Mayan homes and farms are distributed, what this means about social relationships between the elite and common people, how different regions were interconnected, etc.

Interestingly, one of Dr. Estrada-Belli's primary conclusions is not that these structures were only used by "the local elite," but that the closeness of residences and farms to these community sites suggests that the elite and the common people actually had a much closer and nuanced relationship than we previously thought. That's the opposite conclusion you'd get from the Google SWE's assessment.

Knowing that a Mayan site exists is one thing. Understanding what it means is another.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by wholinator2 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:23AM (#50454514)
Very reminiscent of my experience pointing persistent agents at computational physics problems. It can find amazing results and really surprise me, make a write up, and convince me it's a real discovery... until i tell it to do a literature search, and be meticulous. Then it comes back saying "prior art has reduced the novelty of the discovery", and finds papers explaining the discoveries very easily and intelligently.

Perhaps google SWE should have requested a literature search before publishing his results as novel

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by samudrijan on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:57AM (#50454910)
It’s like a shell game. It’s likely overfitting on its training data.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by ebertucc on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:59AM (#50454929)
I enjoy the contrite rationalizations and turns of phrase LLMs use when encountering a discrepancy.

"Prior art has reduced the novelty of the discovery" is a great one

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by idiotsecant on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @12:17PM (#50455867)
Maybe LLMs are getting a little too good at emulating humans.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by jgilias on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @11:09AM (#50455046)
A fancy autocomplete still. Said with no intent to disparage. If the prior art hasn’t been pulled into the context window, it’s not surprising for the completion to not take it into consideration.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by FartyMcFarter on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @11:17AM (#50455122)
Sometimes I feel like a fancy autocomplete myself.

Besides, the LLM can use tools such as search via its harness, so depending on how strictly you define "autocomplete" this alone could disqualify it from being an autocomplete, fancy or otherwise.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by jgilias on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @11:36AM (#50455371)
For sure yeah! What I’m pointing out is that I see people mistaking LLMs for “truth engines”, when they’re not. I find the “autocomplete” mental model really useful for when I work with LLMs myself. E.g., always keep in mind what’s in context, what’s not, where to get context.

Goes without saying - humans are no truth engines either lol.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by nickalaso on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:28AM (#50454564)
IMO, his primary mistake was not turning the agent swarm on a proper research task that exhaustively determined whether it had been discovered or not.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by epistasis on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:55AM (#50454873)
Well the Google SWE didn't make a mistake, the media made a mistake in misreporting it, and we at HN are making a mistake by giving it undue attention.

We are reading this article because it continues and amplifies the AI hype machine, and no other reason. If a motivated amateur had made the discovery through any other means, and motivated amateurs do things like this all the time, then it would never have gotten an article, never shown up on the HN feed.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by biggc on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @12:07PM (#50455744)
And then another agent swarm to make sure that the research swarm didn't hallucinate any false positive matches!

LLMs are great, and they keep getting better, but I'm so tired of current shortcomings being blamed on the prompter "holding it wrong".

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by tantalor on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:15AM (#50454420)
The first thing I saw when I tried to follow this link is a captcha. So it's no wonder that the agent wasn't able to find this. We are siloing our knowledge unnecessarily.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by natebc on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:20AM (#50454487)
If the "AI" scrapers honored HTTP 402 I'd be happy to let 'em in.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by clickety_clack on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:22AM (#50454502)
Or necessarily depending on your viewpoint.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by jazzyjackson on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:26AM (#50454548)
Who says the agent was treated the same as you?
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by nozzlegear on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @12:12PM (#50455816)
[delayed]
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by nickalaso on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:29AM (#50454577)
AI is already fully capable of solving the majority of captchas, you just aren't supposed to do it due to TOS.

I expect with time these kinds of things will change.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by vohk on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:36AM (#50454663)
Lets take a moment to consider why that has started happening.

The lineage of every LLM of relevance today was the largest theft of intellectual property in human history. Every digitised creative work, whether in the public domain or not was taken, often outright pirated, with the explicit intention of being able to trivially produce compelling forgeries. Physical works are being enthusiastically destroyed to digitise them to further feed the hunger. And outside of a few court cases, the original creators across the world have been paid nothing for their work having been stolen and repurposed to put them out of a job.

Meanwhile, those same digitisation efforts have resulted in badly behaved scrapers from all comers absolutely thrashing the entire web, in many cases exponentially increasing the cost of hosting for smaller entities. Larger entities care less about that but are still enthusiastically walling their gardens so they can monetise the output of their communities rather than continuing to allow it to be stolen freely.

We are siloing our knowledge out of desperation. I'm sympathetic to the idea that knowledge should be free but that isn't possible when bad actors like Google and OpenAI are preying on the commons.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by ahknight on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:49AM (#50454819)
Theft/stolen implies it's been taken and the owner deprived of it. Pirated or copied is more appropriate, but still not quite exact as it's been encoded into what amounts to lossy memory. If I ask a person to tell me about a paywalled article, they'll share what they can remember and likely get some facts wrong. An LLM is the same (these days; GPT-3 was another story).

I do agree that the methods of obtaining much of the material (eg. the published works torrents) were stupidly wrong and they should pay for that. However, legally acquired media being "read" by the training process isn't so different than it being read by a voracious reader: it's lossily encoded in (what amounts to) memories.

The insane scraping levels and behaviors ... not wrong. If only there were companies who already did that responsibly they could contract with for data. Hmm. (But they have to "own" it, as is the SV fashion these days.)

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by kelnos on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @11:16AM (#50455112)
The AI companies doing their own scraping wouldn't be a problem if they'd to it in a reasonable way. But instead they hammer the same site over and over for data that hasn't been changed, or request the same data in different formats, or through interfaces that aren't efficient.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by rexpop on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @11:20AM (#50455157)
> Theft/stolen implies it's been taken and the owner deprived of it.

Nope! Theft of the proceeds.

The media may have been legally acquired, but it was done so by violating the intentions and purposes of the content creators.

In other words, people poured their time and attention into something hoping for a return, and got this, instead. And now this is obviating the venues by which creators hoped to receive their social/cultural dividend.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by Matticus_Rex on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @12:36PM (#50456081)
I mean, in a legal sense, no -- it's not theft of the proceeds. You may mean that you think it's morally/philosophically similar to that, in the same sense as piracy and other IP violation, but these things are very specifically not classified as theft from a legal standpoint.

Violating the intentions and purposes of the creators is in some cases an IP violation, and in others it isn't -- it all depends on the details. A lot of AI training on IP-protected materials can fit into the bucket that isn't an IP violation (or any other legal violation), though much of the historical actual training data wasn't collected this way.

IP creators don't have an amorphous right to "a return" or to have their intentions and purposes strictly respected. They have very specific rights in law, and those often don't match up 1:1 with expectations, and almost never with a specific set of the creator's intent (except where that aligns with already-existing law).

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by jonathanstrange on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @11:27AM (#50455240)
It was what's commonly called illegal piracy on a commercial basis and gigantic scale. That normally leads to hefty prison sentences. I've always been against this legal classification and think piracy should be allowed for non-commercial purposes or at least only be considered a very minor crime, but in the present example the piracy was clearly for commercial gains, a company using the illegally obtained material to create essential features of commercial products.

Agreements with publishers after the fact shouldn't even count, particularly since all copyright holders weren't consulted. I wouldn't have given my permission, for example.

It's important to stress that the media were not legally acquired by most US frontier AI companies if not all of them.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by brookst on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:52AM (#50454847)
From my perspective, the bad actors are the corporations and greedy people who turned copyright into a perpetual rent on IP. If copyright terms and IP laws were reasonable, I'd be 100% with you. But the idea that a novel written in 1940 is still not public domain, just so the heirs (or more likely, corporate purchasers of the rights) can continue to profit on a work that was itself but on the shoulders of thousands of years of civilization? Screw that.

The Walt Disneys of the world screwed themselves on this one. If copyright was still the 20+20 it started as, and if the bulk of people being "stolen" from (don't get me started on using theft to refer to IP), then I think most people would be much more up in arms over the AI industry.

But, in a world with sane copyright laws, perhaps AI companies would have different approaches. Today, if they want anything after 1930, they're either breaking laws or in uncharted territory.

And siloing our knowledge is a silly response even if you are a copyright maximalist.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by GolfPopper on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @12:08PM (#50455768)
Which is all fine and dandy, but the scrapers aren't looting IP for the public good, they're looting it so they can make a profit. It's the class of people and organizations who were already benefitting from broken copyright ignoring the rules themselves, to the detriment of the countless individuals who kept our creativity going.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by prefetch on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @11:23AM (#50455201)
>We are siloing our knowledge out of desperation.

but why does knowledge need to be siloed? elsevier has every right to make a deal with the author of the research and put it behind a paywall or whatever they'd like to do to keep their multi-billion dollar business going, but is this something we should be defending and celebrating as a "solution" to prevent LLMs from making knowledge more available?

and in this instance, why should a researcher that is probably funded by public money, care if openai is disseminating their research?

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by whimsicalism on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @11:41AM (#50455432)
Sorry but just because IP has somehow become the current "thing" on the self-described 'left' is not going to convince me that corporate IP & knowledge restriction is actually a good thing and elsevier are the good guys.

> exponentially increasing the cost of hosting

We're on a technical forum, everyone knows the cost of hosting plaintext and what an exponential is.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by qlte on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @12:15PM (#50455844)
Weird to turn this into a left/right "thing" based on flimsy assumptions after an election that demonstrated opposition to AI cuts across the political spectrum despite what e/acc types in a bubble on X might believe.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by whimsicalism on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @12:22PM (#50455931)
I'm on the left and I am not an accelerationist. I think the intellectual property theft justification is a bad one for opposing AI and a surprising one to hear from corners of the internet I inhabit. All of my objections would apply equally to an AI trained from permissibly licensed material.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by parineum on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @12:26PM (#50455966)
> the self-described 'left' is not going to convince me that corporate IP & knowledge restriction is actually a good thing

It just goes to show how fluid people's beliefs can be when they have identified a "bad guy". Everything they do is wrong, even when it aligns with their ethos.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by mlcrypto on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @12:34PM (#50456056)
The so called progressives have actually been the ones opposed to progress throughout history. If they had their way we would all be frozen in time, entitled to our 1960s education & career
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by georgemcbay on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @12:37PM (#50456089)
> not going to convince me that corporate IP & knowledge restriction is actually a good thing and elsevier are the good guys.

multiple parties can be opposed to each other's goals with all of them still being the "bad guys".

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by rurban on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:52AM (#50454843)
Not we, just Elsevier. As long as Academia sells its research, information will not be free.
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by georgeburdell on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:16AM (#50454437)
Clicked the GP link and I got a “this post is private” page. Clicked your link and got a Cloudflare page that hangs and I can’t move past. That’s the Internet in 2026
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by Jtsummers on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:44AM (#50454754)
> I can’t move past

Come on, George, you're clearly a ramblin' wreck from Georgia Tech. You've taken nearly every course GT has offered over the past century, you can get through a captcha. Live up to your name.

Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by mlmonkey on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @11:56AM (#50455611)
If it was already published a year ago, what are the chances that was already in the training data?
Re:Google SWE points 48 AI agents at NASA Lidar, finds unmap... by _alternator_ on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @12:02PM (#50455689)
The Yucatán peninsula is remarkably flat. I've walked to the top of Ek Balam, and you can just see little of green all around the surrounding landscape; I suspect a number of them are uncleared (not undiscovered) Mayan structures. The forest is quite dense, but these are fairly obvious.

They are often left undisturbrd for a number of reasons, including that archeological techniques are fundamentally destructive. Leaving sites for future people to explore also leaves intact knowledge that future technologies may be better able to uncover.