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Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by nonethewiser on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:23PM (#50434889)
>USPS is in a strange boat where a lot of people insist that it must be profitable, much like UPS or Fedex

This isn't really accurate. USPS had a break even (not profitability) legal mandate since 1970-2006. They would adjust prices each year to hit break even. And that's what happened - they roughly broke even each year.

After a 2006 with broad bipartisan support, the UPS was able to make a profit (not just break even) but a price cap was added (to be reviewed every 10 years). They couldn't raise costs beyond inflation. A stamp to send to anywhere in the USA - anywhere (Alaska, Guam, etc.) - currently costs 82 cent. The postal union is against this, usps management is against this, and business mailers are for it. Dont you love all the ads USPS delivers you?

They have not been break even since 2007. They currently lose about $9B/year with $2.7BM being controllable and the rest largely being pensions, retiree health plans, and workers comp charges. Their core business (mail) has been declining for 20 years and no end is in sight. In 2020 they loosened the cap a bit (allowing USPS to raise prices). Business mailers tried to sue them but lost.

So this attitude that they should just lose a bunch of money and be backstopped by the taxpayer, when mail is less critical than ever, is an entirely new idea and is aligned with business mailer lobbying interests. It seems obvious to me that they should just go back to the break even mandate.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by mepiethree on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:32PM (#50434943)
It would be great to raise prices on spam business mailers without raising prices on normal people
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by nonethewiser on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:34PM (#50434953)
Totally. It's 90% of the mail. It's junk.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by rdl on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:52AM (#50440371)
They sort of do this by having the spam business mailers package/submit in ways which cost USPS less to deliver, and the discount is less than the savings. Also covers fixed costs due to volume, which is important due to universal service obligation.

(I have all my mail sent to a CMRA and basically never see any of this stuff, though.)

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by komali2 on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:46PM (#50435050)
> So this attitude that they should just lose a bunch of money and be backstopped by the taxpayer, when mail is less critical than ever, is an entirely new idea and is aligned with business mailer lobbying interests.

Not when combined with the idea that spam mail senders should be legislated out of legality.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by nonethewiser on Monday November 09, 2026 @09:26PM (#50435331)
If USPS could set whatever price they wanted on business mailers they could completely price them out or make them pay more for it.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by account42 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:10AM (#50437833)
The problem is that there are categories of spammers willing to pay more than what the poorest regular people can afford. Much more reasonable to make junk mail illegal just like other countries already have.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by autoexec on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:48PM (#50446766)
No need to treat them the same. Charge spammers a ton, then make personal letters free. The poorest regular people get a great service with less junk mail, and advertisers pay for the trouble they cause.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by not2b on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:57PM (#50435113)
In 2006 a law was passed requiring the USPS to fund pensions far in advance, a requirement no other business had, which instantly put them deep in the red. This wasn't fixed until 2022. But it was just this phony accounting that messed them up, more than the other factors you mention.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by hammock on Monday November 09, 2026 @09:02PM (#50435148)
Some would say it’s the unfunded pensions that are the phony accounting
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by not2b on Monday November 09, 2026 @09:29PM (#50435359)
No one else had to set aside money 75 years in advance, for a debt not due for 75 years. That's not legitimate accounting.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by NavinF on Monday November 09, 2026 @10:04PM (#50435573)
"Contrary to statements made by some employee groups and other stakeholders, PAEA did not require USPS to prefund 75 years of retiree health benefits over a 10-year period." https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-13-112.pdf

Also the 2022 Postal Service Reform Act eliminated the prefunding and ~$57 billion of overdue payments, but USPS finances were still dogshit afterwards: USPS revenue was $80 billion and expenses were $89 billion in FY2024

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by michaelchisari on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:51AM (#50436576)
$9 billion was 0.073% of total federal spending in FY2024.

Small price to pay for something as extraordinary as the USPS.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by mullingitover on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:45AM (#50436890)
I don’t think of their finances as being dogshit because there aren’t revenue positive. It’s a fraction of a sliver of the federal budget to run a constitutionally mandated service.

The (non-navy) military has no constitutional mandate at all, it’s an industrial scale cash incineration device which the postal service can’t hold a candle to, and we don’t blink at it wasting 10x or more of the postal service’s opex.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by NavinF on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:53AM (#50438522)
Would you allow other companies to deliver letters and to deliver stuff inside mailboxes? I find it disgusting that a company with a monopoly on those two services still can't make a profit.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by wavefunction on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:56AM (#50439674)
Someone just bringing whatever shit they want to my house? Junkmail needs to be deregulated? Everytime I hear the "notions" of the libertarian/hypercapitalist ilk it just sounds like "What if your life could be even shittier than it is now?!?"
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by doikor on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:15AM (#50439857)
It can’t make profit because USPS is not allowed to set the prices of its services.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by lovich on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @05:05PM (#50446935)
They also have to deliver to every valid residential address.

You wouldn’t see UPS or fedex running a mule train to make sure an area still gets mail[1]

If we let other companies take over and kill the USPS we’ll just see a ton of areas of the country not get delivered too because the profit margin isn’t there.

[1] https://facts.usps.com/8-mile-mule-train-delivery/

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by velcrovan on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:08AM (#50442325)
Public services don’t exist to make a profit.

The finances of your police and fire departments, your libraries and public schools, and the military, are all “dogshit” by this absurd reasoning.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by prepend on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @07:16AM (#50439246)
Yes. Organizations must fund pensions up front and not rely on future revenue to make up for shortfalls.

It’s weird how people bring this up. It was very unusual for the usps not to have to set aside money now to pay for pensions in the future.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by BrianGragg on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:58AM (#50443035)
>Yes. Organizations must fund pensions up front and not rely on future revenue to make up for shortfalls.

What? Maybe my reading comprehension is a little off this morning but are you saying a company offering a pension plan must set aside hundreds of thousands of dollars day 1 every time they hire a new employee?.... That math doesn't math.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by hammock on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @09:26PM (#50462296)
Day 1 employees are not entitled to hundreds of thousands in a pension. What do you mean?
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by sidewndr46 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @07:00AM (#50452401)
75 years in advance? Does a 16 year old expect to retire at 92 ?
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by nonethewiser on Monday November 09, 2026 @09:23PM (#50435314)
>In 2006 a law was passed requiring the USPS to fund pensions far in advance, a requirement no other business had, which instantly put them deep in the red. This wasn't fixed until 2022.

No because they are still deep in the red, about $9B a year.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by toomuchtodo on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:24AM (#50437913)
That’s $2B less than the first six days of the Iran war. We could just cut a check each year.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by toomuchtodo on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:24AM (#50441693)
Additional follow on thought:

USPS and the US military are both, at their heart, logistics engines and systems, and both should be valued as such. "The whole is more than the sum of its parts." If you do not maintain and treat said systems with respect, the capability will not be ready when you need it, or will not contribute to the ongoing success of the jurisdiction in which it operates.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by wallst07 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:39AM (#50436846)
>a requirement no other business

True, but isn't this because everyone knows that USPS is a dying business already?

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by kelseyfrog on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @08:52AM (#50440361)
It's not a business; it's an independent agency of the executive branch. The persistent attempts to view it as a business are a category error and the difference between public and private sectors.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by hammock on Monday November 09, 2026 @09:00PM (#50435137)
>The postal union is against this, usps management is against this, and business mailers are for it

I was confused by this until I realized you are missing some logical steps in your (accurate) argument.

The 2006 law took away the safety net (ie the ability to charge whatever is needed to break even).

The “you can now make a profit” rule actually made it HARDER since it came with a price cap.

It told the USPS: You can keep any profits you make, but you cannot raise prices above the rate of inflation to get them.

This forced the USPS to absorb rising costs through internal efficiency rather than passing the bill to mailers

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by nonethewiser on Monday November 09, 2026 @09:22PM (#50435301)
Yes, thats exactly right. The ability to profit was granted and they were kneecapped by the price cap. They haven't profited since the legislation and immediately started incurring large losses. That's all in my comment already.

By no means was I implying that the ability to profit means they did profit. Im just stating what the law was.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by doubleg72 on Monday November 09, 2026 @10:15PM (#50435634)
I didn't know what your point was either..
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by wahern on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:53PM (#50443692)
I'm guessing that was what the lobbyists intended. Nominally the law permitted a profit, and that's how it was sold, but it was structured as a bulk mailer subsidy. Strategic discourse subterfuge.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by mattmcknight on Monday November 09, 2026 @10:39PM (#50435779)
Yes, it's the price cap which is the issue.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by SoftTalker on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:15AM (#50442425)
A big thing they could do for costs is reduce mail delivery to the final destination to once or twice a week. They would need anywhere from 1/2 to 1/5 the number of delivery drivers and vehicles that they have today.

The vast majority of first-class and bulk-rate mail is not anything can't wait a few days. For truly urgent deliveries, use a courier service or pay a higher postage that covers the expenses of that.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by its_ethan on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:02PM (#50443840)
> They would need anywhere from 1/2 to 1/5 the number of delivery drivers and vehicles that they have today

And that's why it (unfortunately) won't happen lol the USPS is as much of a jobs program as it is an actual mail delivery service.

As the guy above you pointed out, the postal workers union exists, and would fight this tooth and nail. Additionally, without legislation forcing it, management at USPS doesn't really have any incentive or ability to fire 1/2 to 4/5ths of their workers, those saved tax dollars don't really matter to them.

As much as I agree it could be made much more efficient, doing so would probably be very unpopular politically. For as often as people have negative experiences with the USPS, no one wants to see their friendly neighborhood post carrier (who walks around in a fun outfit dropping off letters and packages to them) get canned.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by autoexec on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:31PM (#50446585)
I like the fact that I can get mail delivered timely. I'd rather see the post office operate at a loss than stop delivering mail except for once or twice a week. If the post office wants to make more money, I'd rather pass a law that lets the raise prices for spam while requiring them to keep stamp prices for personal mail low.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by pessimizer on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:59AM (#50442204)
> when mail is less critical than ever,

People receive tons of mail, it's just packages. The USPS handles packages, but we've allowed it to be replaced by labor-unfriendly private organizations like UPS and Amazon.

> is an recent idea

> This isn't really accurate. USPS had a break even (not profitability) legal mandate since 1970-2006.

No, the idea that USPS should break even is a recent idea. 1970 is recent.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:19PM (#50443309)
>So this attitude that they should just lose a bunch of money and be backstopped by the taxpayer, when mail is less critical than ever, is an recent idea

There is a union involved, a union which can be counted on to vote loyally. For this reason, the USPS will exist 900 years from now.

I would be just as happy if it were dissolved and no longer existed. It is as obsolete as the Pony Express. If your counterarguments are "but it delivers Amazon!", then you are subconsciously admitting that its purpose has already ended.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by bluey_465 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:30PM (#50444249)
I think what crushed USPS’s finances was a change where they had to account for future pension obligations in their current spending.

One can argue whether this approach, which is followed by no one either in the private or public sector is appropriate (I’m torn. I see the benefit of this change), but what isn’t arguable is that the way it was implemented, falling on USPS almost immediately without a gradual transition period, was ridiculous.

It forced USPS to make decisions that were harmful in the mid to long term, solely to meet an accounting change.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by bs7280 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:42PM (#50444393)
What I was alluding to with "a lot of people", is Trump's administrations specifically.

Requiring the post office to be profitable is like requiring the highway system to be profitable from tolls. The freeway system being free generates so much more economical value for the country than what it costs to maintain them.

I would say the post office should be free, if it were not for the insane amount of spam mail we already get.

Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by autoexec on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:44PM (#50446726)
Make it free for letters sent as personal mailings (residence to residence) and much more expense for bulk senders to help offset the loss of stamp money. I wouldn't even mind of they operated at a loss year after year.
Re:USPS now offers official ZIP Code boundary polygons by sidewndr46 on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @06:58AM (#50452380)
What does profitability of UPS have to do with this?