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Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bearjaws on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:06PM (#50382246)
Cloudflare is a steal at $240 IMO.

Regardless of what happens to the AI models, you will still need protection a decade from now.

Not to mention the most comprehensive platform to use with AI, they will inevitably eat Lovable / Repl's lunch.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by vlucas on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:23PM (#50382503)
Agreed on the "steal at $240".

Cloudflare is not competing with app builders like Lovable or Repl though. They are the underlying infrastructure for companies like that. This is why they will win in the AI era.

Lovable is hosted on Cloudflare: https://x.com/CloudflareDev/status/2113651157721600492

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by estearum on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:28PM (#50382575)
They're saying that it's trivial for Cloudflare to go up the stack (build Replit) while it's non-trivial for Replit to go down the stack (build Cloudflare).
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by dingaling911 on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:32PM (#50382634)
It's trivial for those providing internet links to go up the stack and cloud data centers but they typically don't.

Staying in your lane is often a better choice.

Maybe expanding through acquisition is the best of both worlds. So replit might be bought.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by estearum on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:41PM (#50382756)
I'm not expressing an opinion on whether they should or shouldn't.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by sillysaurusx on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:32PM (#50382639)
Why would either of them do either of those? They seem to be different businesses.

Network effects make it harder for Cloudflare to build Replit than it might seem, too.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by estearum on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:42PM (#50382770)
What network effects?

And the reason for Cloudflare to do it is because there are several (apparently) very juicy businesses to be built by slapping a chat UI and off the shelf coding agent on top of Cloudflare infra... Not saying they should do this, but the rationale is pretty self-evident.

The reason for Replit to try going down the stack is platform risk and compressing margins from competitors who also have the brilliant idea of slapping a text box and off the shelf coding agents onto Cloudflare.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by vlucas on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:15PM (#50383152)
It's not trivial to change your entire business. Cloudflare is B2B focusing on enterprise sales. These app builder companies are basically B2C and lower end B2B.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by estearum on Thursday November 05, 2026 @03:16PM (#50383909)
By this logic every single company on the planet would be a single-product company. The reality is that companies expand their offerings all the time – despite the cost, complexity, and risk of doing so.

A great time to expand your offerings is when there's an adjacent offering that's producing outsized returns for someone else, is easily replicable, and which you have an asymmetric advantage on.

I think everyone knows that when someone says "it's trivial" for a business to do something, it doesn't mean it's actually trivial. Doing anything of any value anywhere is non-trivial. It's shorthand for "doing Activity X is almost certainly achievable with an acceptable outlay of risk for Business Y."

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by vlucas on Thursday November 05, 2026 @03:35PM (#50384134)
> By this logic every single company on the planet would be a single-product company.

This is absolutely not true, and proof that you completely misunderstood what I said.

You took an upmarket B2B infrastructure company and compared it to a low-end B2B/B2C software company. That is a completely different type of business.

Cloudflare launches new products and offerings all the time - and all B2B within their market space. The difference is that if they did what you suggest (make a Lovable), it would put them in a position of competing with their own customers, and it would have a chilling effect on selling more infrastructure to other companies who would then fear competition as well. It's not that they can't do it. It's that it is not wise for them to do so, and it's a different type of business entirely.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by estearum on Thursday November 05, 2026 @03:43PM (#50384225)
As I understand it, very little of Replit and Lovable (especially) are actually B2C. A lot of it is internal teams at mid-sized companies, which are a huge and demonstrably very fruitful customer segment, and one that Cloudflare does in fact serve already.

Cloudflare has already started releasing products that point in this direction. Not sure how far they will (or should) go, but it's really not categorically ridiculous or impossible or nonsensical, as you're implying.

https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-os/

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bluegatty on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:35PM (#50383385)
Neither are trivial but I would wager cloudflare is the easiest to replace because it's the most mechanical and price sensitive.

It's like VPN service. Some other party comes along and offers it at 40% of the cost, you can do that.

Lovable is more nuanced. It takes more to move away, and there's just no reason to. The unit cost of Lovable buyeres is negligible aka less buyer sensitivity

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by MisterMunchkin on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:44PM (#50383502)
Lmao, they’re just wrappers around ChatGPT. You could replace them in a day.

It takes decades to build the kind of network cloudflare has.

“Please mr bezos, can I connect my new trivial network to yours?” “0.08/GB :)”

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bluegatty on Thursday November 05, 2026 @03:14PM (#50383885)
LMAO you have it complete upside down, and if you think Lovable is a 'wrapper' around AI maybe you should try building a working app.

Lovable is a layer of abstraction, becoming as as complex as Shopify.

"It takes decades to build the kind of network cloudflare has."

It takes literally no time. Cloudflare's network could be emulated with proper planning and enough budget, and turned on instantly. 'Servers in 300 cities' is a medium sized challenge, but most importantly, it's a relatively clear path.

On the customer side, Cloudflare (in most cases) could be replaced as quickly as individuals replace their VPNs.

Shopify for example is ' just some siple HTML and checkout' - of course not - they are dominant and growing because there's a lot of complex interdependence, switching costs are much higher, their buyers are less technical and much less likely to want to change, and building a Shopify replacement involves hitting a lot of checkmarks.

Lovable started as a wrapper just as Shopify started with something simple, but they've quickly evolved.

AWS could snap their fingers and decide to knock out Cloudflare, it's a 'Commodity Plus' that came to the fore in a time when a specific need was there, and now people are turning to it out of convenience.

Of Lovable, Wix, Shopify, Figma, Stripe - Cloudflare is in the riskiest position because of the inherent commoditizability of their tech and the relatively low switching costs.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by estearum on Thursday November 05, 2026 @03:17PM (#50383916)
The SaaS component of Shopify is also trivial now. That's not where Shopify's moat comes from either. You are very confused.

> Cloudflare's network could be emulated with proper planning and enough budget

lmfao

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by nyorai on Thursday November 05, 2026 @05:54PM (#50385706)
Whats Shopify's moat then?
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bluegatty on Friday November 06, 2026 @12:30AM (#50388569)
No.

Shopify's core offer is a very long gnarly tail with any number of detail and moving parts, a massive eco system of 3rd party vendors, integations, and developer community.

Their service is sticky and switching costs are high.

It would literally cost more in Claude Code tokens to hack a prototype, than to sign up and host Shopify and get 100x the features. It's $0 to build the prototype and $1/mo to literally have a full product for the first 3 months.

At the same time, Claude Code can build you a full variation of Cloudflare's core product, and with less than $1M you can scale across 300 regions if you really put your mind to it.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by mancerayder on Thursday November 05, 2026 @07:34PM (#50386620)
Cloudflare is competing with Akamai, and a few others. Not some content hosting outfit.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by chpatrick on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:02PM (#50382990)
Lovable is one ChatGPT/Claude update away from extinction, IMO.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by lbreakjai on Thursday November 05, 2026 @03:03PM (#50383728)
Our designer uses some some of open-source Lovable. I don't remember the name, it's just pointed to our liteLLM gateway. A dev helped him with the setup, so there's still a bit of value in lovable's "it just works", but it's so much cheaper someone is bound to eat their lunch.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by ndiddy on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:10PM (#50383081)
During the dot-com boom, Cisco was the underlying infrastructure of the Internet. A lot of investors that believed themselves to be savvy bought Cisco stock. Their reasoning was that individual dot-com startups may go under, but the Internet itself was here to stay. In practice, the Cisco stock price peaked in March 2000, and anyone who invested at the peak would not have broken even (in nominal dollars, not real dollars) until December 2025.

The investors were right that the Internet would be important, and that Cisco would continue to be an important manufacturer of networking infrastructure. This just fundamentally did not matter because after the dot-com bubble popped, the market decided that Cisco simply wasn't worth the price it was selling at during the height of the bubble.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by s-kymon on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:25PM (#50382548)
In an April 2002 interview with Bloomberg Businessweek, Scott McNealy, then CEO of Sun Microsystems, reflected on investors paying 10x revenue for Sun stock at its dot-com peak ($64/share in 2000):

At 10 times revenues, to give you a 10-year payback, I have to pay you 100% of revenues for 10 straight years in dividends. That assumes I can get that by my shareholders. That assumes I have zero cost of goods sold, which is very hard for a computer company. That assumes zero expenses, which is really hard with 39,000 employees. That assumes I pay no taxes, which is very hard. And that assumes you pay no taxes on your dividends, which is kind of illegal. And that assumes with zero R&D for the next 10 years, I can maintain the current revenue run rate. Now, having done that, would any of you like to buy my stock at $64? Do you realize how ridiculous those basic assumptions are? You don't need any transparency. You don't need any footnotes. What were you thinking?

Now this analysis is imperfect... but it's good enough.

For reference Cloudflare trades at 39x revenue

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by ink_13 on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:31PM (#50382625)
A tech stock paying dividends? It'll never happen.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by s-kymon on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:33PM (#50382664)
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by dingaling911 on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:32PM (#50382640)
Uh.. The big guys do.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by impulser_ on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:36PM (#50382699)
Yeah, but they just do that for inclusion into some investment products that require a dividend.

Share buybacks are always better for the company and investors.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by mikestew on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:42PM (#50382766)
Ever looked at MSFT or AAPL’s dividends? It’s a token “here’s your fucking dividend, now go away” percentage. (I’m sure it’s actually to placate funds that require a dividend, but I repeat myself.)
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by lotsofpulp on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:05PM (#50383026)
Why would you want a dividend? It’s mathematically better for a business to do share buybacks and allow investors to choose when to sell shares so they can minimize tax liability.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bigfatkitten on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:33PM (#50383352)
That depends a whole lot on your tax jurisdiction, your other income and your investment strategy.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by lotsofpulp on Thursday November 05, 2026 @05:38PM (#50385511)
I don't know of any jurisdiction in the world that taxes unrealized gains in publicly listed equities.

In no scenario does losing control of at taxable event benefit the taxpayer.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bigfatkitten on Thursday November 05, 2026 @07:06PM (#50386387)
Australia has one of, if not the highest rates of CGT in the world.

ASX dividend stocks are popular with retirees in particular because the dividends are fully franked, meaning you get a credit for the tax already paid on the dividends by the company.

If you’re in a low enough tax bracket, this can turn into a tax refund if the tax the company paid exceeds your own personal tax liability.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by lotsofpulp on Thursday November 05, 2026 @09:49PM (#50387539)
Interesting, thanks for the info.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by mikestew on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:49PM (#50383559)
No one is saying they want a dividend, I'm explaining how small the dividends of big tech companies are.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by dingaling911 on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:08PM (#50383059)
Yeah big dividends are for companies that can't do anything better than the money.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by paxy on Thursday November 05, 2026 @03:00PM (#50383700)
This isn't 2010. Almost all big tech companies are paying dividends now.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by ahtihn on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:40PM (#50382739)
That analysis completely neglects growth.

Obviously you wouldn't pay 10x revenue if you expect revenue to be flat for the next 10 years.

No wonder that company no longer exists with a CEO that doesn't get that.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bryanlarsen on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:42PM (#50382769)
Cloudflare's growth is capped to 100% of internet traffic. it's already at 20%.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by tristanj on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:55PM (#50382909)
Internet traffic is projected to grow 25% YoY over the next decade.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bryanlarsen on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:12PM (#50383107)
Most of that is bot traffic.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by nickv on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:23PM (#50383237)
Sounds like a new business expansion opportunity for Cloudflare.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by ahtihn on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:57PM (#50382933)
What does that even mean? Revenue is measured in dollars not in % of internet traffic. They could "own" 100% of internet traffic and still have growing revenue.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bigfatkitten on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:29PM (#50383312)
That assumes 100% of Internet can or would be willing to adopt Cloudflare, which has no real basis.

The EU is finally waking up to the fact that putting all its eggs in the U.S. basket is a bad thing. China is enormous, and they're not going to go all in on Cloudflare either for a myriad of reasons. And a bunch of folks just don't like nor want to do business with the company and its CEO.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by s-kymon on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:45PM (#50382793)
you're right on growth being excluded, which is why I said the analysis is imperfect.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by grey-area on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:09PM (#50383070)
Cloudflare is now a mature company, they don't have a huge amount of room for growth, and no, they will never sit in front of the entire internet.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by brightball on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:40PM (#50382740)
"In the short term the market is a popularity contest; in the long term it is a weighing machine." - Warren Buffett

Here's the valuation though. Percentage of total web traffic going through Cloudflare.

- 2016 ~3.9%

- 2017 ~5.3%

- 2018 ~6.6%

- 2019 ~7.6%

- 2020 ~11.2%

- 2021 ~15.4%

- 2022 ~19.4%

- 2023 ~18.0%

- 2024 ~18.9%

- 2025 ~19.2%

- 2026 (early) ~20.9% (with later snapshots higher, up to the mid-to-high 20s)

Combine that with consistently excellent execution and popularity, you get the valuation.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by s-kymon on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:44PM (#50382787)
The quote comes from Ben Graham and it goes "In the short run, the market is a voting machine, but in the long run, it is a weighing machine"

You're confusing market share with not valuation. Also, look into business cycle theory from marathon asset management.

The four most dangerous words in finance "this time is different"

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bell-cot on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:59PM (#50382960)
Not "I'm smarter than that"?
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by brightball on Thursday November 05, 2026 @06:49PM (#50386256)
I’m not confusing market share with valuation.

I’m saying that 1/5th of global internet traffic runs through their servers. Period. Thats significant and if anything shows that there’s potentially a lot more opportunity.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by timacles on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:25PM (#50383265)
All it takes is for that % of internet number to go down or stagnate and the narrative to change and that valuation will quickly snap back to reality.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by brightball on Thursday November 05, 2026 @06:47PM (#50386241)
Sure. As would be expected.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by swatcoder on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:42PM (#50382765)
That's qThe person you responded to is a speculator.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by gen220 on Thursday November 05, 2026 @03:31PM (#50384083)
Disclaimer that I'm a long-term Cloudflare holder, and that I've also sold NET in the past year.

I empathize with this view, however it is very hard to value businesses that have extremely high margins, and who grow revenue very quickly on existing products while they're adding additional products.

I don't think NET is a steal at 39x revenue. But at no point in the last 5 years has NET been available to purchase for <15x revenue [1].

During that time, it has had Gross Margins in the exceptional range of 70%-75%, and YoY quarterly revenue growth in the similarly exceptional range of 25-40%, which has increased in our post-AI agent software economy.

If you're a Ben Graham acolyte, you would have sat out of NET since it's IPO. However, if you're a Charlie Munger/Buffet admirer who understands the pivotal role NET plays in the software ecosystem (i.e. it's inside your "circle of competence"), you'd do well to consider the Mungerism:

"Forget what you know about buying fair businesses at wonderful prices. Instead, buy wonderful businesses at fair prices."

That still leaves as an exercise to the reader what a "fair price" is for NET, but (to me, at least) it's clearly a wonderful business.

[1]: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NET/cloudflare/pri...

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:32PM (#50382633)
It looks like Cloudflare generates $633mm operating cash flow a year, up 5% for TTM from 2025 [1]. I’m surprised that’s supporting a $95bn market cap.

[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/NET/cash-flow/

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by cj on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:45PM (#50382790)
How does that compare to other tech companies?

As an example, Palantir has a similar cash flow / market cap ratio. I didn't check many others.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by hnav on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:47PM (#50382812)
now that they have most of the internet corralled I don't see why they won't start charging for bandwidth
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by tmpz22 on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:56PM (#50382915)
IT Sovereignty is likely to be a growing trend after the past few years - including issues of Election interference not just by governments but by individual Tech CEOs. I think a lot of particularly Europeans have realized that putting all your eggs in American jurisprudence might -not- be the best way to go.

Cloudflare has a moat but it already smells like sewage.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by wtch98 on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:29PM (#50383313)
I'd be very surprised if the internet isn't well on its way to being balkanised by 2036.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by lotsofpulp on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:59PM (#50382956)
When I decide what price to pay for a business, it is about how much a business can earn in the future relative to other businesses, not about how much it earns now.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by elAhmo on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:33PM (#50382660)
Given how much people have started actively looking for alternatives, and how much spray-and-pray Cloudflare's offerings now seem with so many launches every few weeks, steal is a bit too optimistic.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by MisterPea on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:57PM (#50382931)
Yeah we are actively building our own alternatives due to excessive CF bills
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by postepowanieadm on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:34PM (#50382674)
You selling?
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by Havoc on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:10PM (#50383084)
Im still crying about having sold it at 20
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by yojo on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:24PM (#50383254)
I’m still crying about taking a Dropbox offer over Cloudflare’s pre-IPO in 2016.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by Havoc on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:35PM (#50383395)
Yeah hindsight is incredibly frustrating.

Also owned a bunch of asml shares a decade or so ago. But it didn’t really move so got bored and sold. Good picks bad patience.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bluegatty on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:33PM (#50383354)
Cloudflare is in no position to eat lovable or Repl.

And frankly, they should basically be a commodity.

If anything, AWS or MS or other parties make it about as profitable as hosting web pages.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by MisterMunchkin on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:39PM (#50383444)
They have good potential for cloud services too. Competing with AWS is much more viable when you have data centres everywhere and a huge network.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by donkey_brains on Thursday November 05, 2026 @05:49PM (#50385635)
Dude I made 2k off the earnings call tonight thanks to your comment. Thank you!