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Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by s-kymon on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:25PM (#50382548)
In an April 2002 interview with Bloomberg Businessweek, Scott McNealy, then CEO of Sun Microsystems, reflected on investors paying 10x revenue for Sun stock at its dot-com peak ($64/share in 2000):

At 10 times revenues, to give you a 10-year payback, I have to pay you 100% of revenues for 10 straight years in dividends. That assumes I can get that by my shareholders. That assumes I have zero cost of goods sold, which is very hard for a computer company. That assumes zero expenses, which is really hard with 39,000 employees. That assumes I pay no taxes, which is very hard. And that assumes you pay no taxes on your dividends, which is kind of illegal. And that assumes with zero R&D for the next 10 years, I can maintain the current revenue run rate. Now, having done that, would any of you like to buy my stock at $64? Do you realize how ridiculous those basic assumptions are? You don't need any transparency. You don't need any footnotes. What were you thinking?

Now this analysis is imperfect... but it's good enough.

For reference Cloudflare trades at 39x revenue

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by ink_13 on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:31PM (#50382625)
A tech stock paying dividends? It'll never happen.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by s-kymon on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:33PM (#50382664)
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by dingaling911 on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:32PM (#50382640)
Uh.. The big guys do.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by impulser_ on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:36PM (#50382699)
Yeah, but they just do that for inclusion into some investment products that require a dividend.

Share buybacks are always better for the company and investors.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by mikestew on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:42PM (#50382766)
Ever looked at MSFT or AAPL’s dividends? It’s a token “here’s your fucking dividend, now go away” percentage. (I’m sure it’s actually to placate funds that require a dividend, but I repeat myself.)
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by lotsofpulp on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:05PM (#50383026)
Why would you want a dividend? It’s mathematically better for a business to do share buybacks and allow investors to choose when to sell shares so they can minimize tax liability.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bigfatkitten on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:33PM (#50383352)
That depends a whole lot on your tax jurisdiction, your other income and your investment strategy.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by lotsofpulp on Thursday November 05, 2026 @05:38PM (#50385511)
I don't know of any jurisdiction in the world that taxes unrealized gains in publicly listed equities.

In no scenario does losing control of at taxable event benefit the taxpayer.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bigfatkitten on Thursday November 05, 2026 @07:06PM (#50386387)
Australia has one of, if not the highest rates of CGT in the world.

ASX dividend stocks are popular with retirees in particular because the dividends are fully franked, meaning you get a credit for the tax already paid on the dividends by the company.

If you’re in a low enough tax bracket, this can turn into a tax refund if the tax the company paid exceeds your own personal tax liability.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by lotsofpulp on Thursday November 05, 2026 @09:49PM (#50387539)
Interesting, thanks for the info.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by mikestew on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:49PM (#50383559)
No one is saying they want a dividend, I'm explaining how small the dividends of big tech companies are.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by dingaling911 on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:08PM (#50383059)
Yeah big dividends are for companies that can't do anything better than the money.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by paxy on Thursday November 05, 2026 @03:00PM (#50383700)
This isn't 2010. Almost all big tech companies are paying dividends now.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by ahtihn on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:40PM (#50382739)
That analysis completely neglects growth.

Obviously you wouldn't pay 10x revenue if you expect revenue to be flat for the next 10 years.

No wonder that company no longer exists with a CEO that doesn't get that.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bryanlarsen on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:42PM (#50382769)
Cloudflare's growth is capped to 100% of internet traffic. it's already at 20%.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by tristanj on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:55PM (#50382909)
Internet traffic is projected to grow 25% YoY over the next decade.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bryanlarsen on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:12PM (#50383107)
Most of that is bot traffic.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by nickv on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:23PM (#50383237)
Sounds like a new business expansion opportunity for Cloudflare.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by ahtihn on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:57PM (#50382933)
What does that even mean? Revenue is measured in dollars not in % of internet traffic. They could "own" 100% of internet traffic and still have growing revenue.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bigfatkitten on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:29PM (#50383312)
That assumes 100% of Internet can or would be willing to adopt Cloudflare, which has no real basis.

The EU is finally waking up to the fact that putting all its eggs in the U.S. basket is a bad thing. China is enormous, and they're not going to go all in on Cloudflare either for a myriad of reasons. And a bunch of folks just don't like nor want to do business with the company and its CEO.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by s-kymon on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:45PM (#50382793)
you're right on growth being excluded, which is why I said the analysis is imperfect.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by grey-area on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:09PM (#50383070)
Cloudflare is now a mature company, they don't have a huge amount of room for growth, and no, they will never sit in front of the entire internet.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by brightball on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:40PM (#50382740)
"In the short term the market is a popularity contest; in the long term it is a weighing machine." - Warren Buffett

Here's the valuation though. Percentage of total web traffic going through Cloudflare.

- 2016 ~3.9%

- 2017 ~5.3%

- 2018 ~6.6%

- 2019 ~7.6%

- 2020 ~11.2%

- 2021 ~15.4%

- 2022 ~19.4%

- 2023 ~18.0%

- 2024 ~18.9%

- 2025 ~19.2%

- 2026 (early) ~20.9% (with later snapshots higher, up to the mid-to-high 20s)

Combine that with consistently excellent execution and popularity, you get the valuation.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by s-kymon on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:44PM (#50382787)
The quote comes from Ben Graham and it goes "In the short run, the market is a voting machine, but in the long run, it is a weighing machine"

You're confusing market share with not valuation. Also, look into business cycle theory from marathon asset management.

The four most dangerous words in finance "this time is different"

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by bell-cot on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:59PM (#50382960)
Not "I'm smarter than that"?
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by brightball on Thursday November 05, 2026 @06:49PM (#50386256)
I’m not confusing market share with valuation.

I’m saying that 1/5th of global internet traffic runs through their servers. Period. Thats significant and if anything shows that there’s potentially a lot more opportunity.

Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by timacles on Thursday November 05, 2026 @02:25PM (#50383265)
All it takes is for that % of internet number to go down or stagnate and the narrative to change and that valuation will quickly snap back to reality.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by brightball on Thursday November 05, 2026 @06:47PM (#50386241)
Sure. As would be expected.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by swatcoder on Thursday November 05, 2026 @01:42PM (#50382765)
That's qThe person you responded to is a speculator.
Re:Nasdaq Sinks 5% as Investors Retreat from AI Trade After ... by gen220 on Thursday November 05, 2026 @03:31PM (#50384083)
Disclaimer that I'm a long-term Cloudflare holder, and that I've also sold NET in the past year.

I empathize with this view, however it is very hard to value businesses that have extremely high margins, and who grow revenue very quickly on existing products while they're adding additional products.

I don't think NET is a steal at 39x revenue. But at no point in the last 5 years has NET been available to purchase for <15x revenue [1].

During that time, it has had Gross Margins in the exceptional range of 70%-75%, and YoY quarterly revenue growth in the similarly exceptional range of 25-40%, which has increased in our post-AI agent software economy.

If you're a Ben Graham acolyte, you would have sat out of NET since it's IPO. However, if you're a Charlie Munger/Buffet admirer who understands the pivotal role NET plays in the software ecosystem (i.e. it's inside your "circle of competence"), you'd do well to consider the Mungerism:

"Forget what you know about buying fair businesses at wonderful prices. Instead, buy wonderful businesses at fair prices."

That still leaves as an exercise to the reader what a "fair price" is for NET, but (to me, at least) it's clearly a wonderful business.

[1]: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NET/cloudflare/pri...