Honestly, it's got to the point where 8 or 9 times out of 10 I switch to Google search because I'm unhappy with the results I'm getting... and really it's at the point where, why am I even still using it?
It's just not very good.
It reminds of something like AltaVista back in the day, or one of those other old skool search engines, with how poor its results are relative to evil old Google.
But only once did Google actually give me what I was looking for. Every other time the Google results were the same SEO garbage I was getting with DDG.
Maybe I should try switching to Google for a full month to see if my search quality generally improves.
But I think the AI overviews in DDG and even Google have helped a lot.
AI has helped search tremendously. I only search for things that should have exact answers.
[0] I'm deliberately avoiding talking about LLMs here: I mean specifically in cases where what I want to do is execute a web search - often because I'm dissatisfied with, or suspicious of, something an LLM has told me.
It used to be the case that shopping was way better using Google than DDG, but Google seems to have enshitified that now, and it seems to mostly show me deals on different models than I searched for.
These days when DDG fails me, I usually find Google does too.
Google is the only search engine allowed to index Reddit [1].
See this previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46708678
[0] https://www.404media.co/email/4650b997-7cc3-4578-834c-7e663e...
Kagi had a post discussing this which made the front page of HN about a month ago [1]:
> Google does not offer a public search API. The only available path is an ad-syndication bundle with no changes to result presentation - the model Startpage uses. Ad syndication is a non-starter for Kagi’s ad-free subscription model.
> Because direct licensing isn’t available to us on compatible terms, we - like many others - use third-party API providers for SERP-style results (SERP meaning search engine results page). These providers serve major enterprises (according to their websites) including Nvidia, Adobe, Samsung, Stanford, DeepMind, Uber, and the United Nations.
> This is not our preferred solution. We plan to exit it as soon as direct, contractual access becomes available. There is no legitimate, paid path to comprehensive Google or Bing results for a company like Kagi. Our position is clear: open the search index, make it available on FRAND terms, and enable rapid innovation in the marketplace.
I see the same phenomenon on other smaller forums, too, though. DuckDuckGo always feels like it has a smaller database than Google, which isn't really a surprise.
I much prefer to use scholar.google.com or npmjs.com for research. The URL is already in my history/bookmarks and the scoped query is more useful than the generic websearch.
Agree with this. DDG just seems to have less ‘in’ it.
I’ve been playing with old 8052 microcontrollers recently, and it’s not unusual for DDG to return zero results on slightly esoteric technical searches, when Google will have plenty of relevant results (and it’s not just that Google is less strict about search terms - often I’m searching specifically for keywords).
[1] https://redditinc.com/news/reddit-and-google-expand-partners...
Happy user of the DDG mobile browser though.
> I thought there was going to be some substance to this post but it reads like someone congratulating themselves for a choice they made and then trying to backwards justify it.
I don't read that. Where do you see a backwards justification? Do you know the decision-making steps? I simply don't see how you can conclude this, unless you assume it. In which case the assumption may easily be totally incorrect.
Most of the improvements he cited in his life were either unrelated to Google or things that he could have turned off in Gmail.
He complains about Gmail sorting his e-mail, but that's a feature he turned on. He could have just turned it off.
He complains about his inbox being polluted from putting his e-mail address into everything, but his new account doesn't have anything signed up yet. That's not a Google problem, that's an e-mail address problem.
He says that he's getting in the habit of skipping search engines and going straight to IMDB or Wikipedia or Reddit, but again that has nothing to do with Google specifically.
(obligatory disclaimer: I work for Google but not in Search, all opinions strictly my own, yadda yadda)
It's a scale problem. An (in my opinion) unsolveable one.
Google - let's say all search engine companies combined - employ N engineers working on search engines. They allocate those teams X dollars, and let's pretend that's all these companies do and their total income is Y dollars.
Around the world there are orders of magnitude more people - let's say 1000*N, I don't know if anyone has even tried to gather this data - trying to game the search results and get their thing to the top. Those people have a combined budget dramatically larger than X and (I suspect) significantly larger than Y. Oh, and the best of them are almost certainly sharing notes and tactics with each other.
Even if everyone working on a search engine is a 10X genius engineer, they're still at a multiple-orders-of-magnitude disadvantage.
Kagi is the ONLY search engine I know that currently doesn’t suck and I highly recommend it to anyone who will listen. I would cancel almost any other subscription before Kagi.
I don't dig in reddit frequently so that specific issue is not one for me
I ran an experiment where I set DDG as my default on all surfaces. About 3 - 4 months in, I actually started hating searching, and a few weeks later most of my queries had the prefix !g
Gmail is hands down the best. I pay for Gemini, and Gemini outside gmail is much much better than Gemini inside gmail. I pay for ChatGPT, but for some reason, I trust Gemini with my email rather than ChatGPT.
It’s hard to describe but the results are just better, and it loads incredibly fast.
With DDG I always had this 20% wish to have Google back and frequently queries with !g bangs, not so much with Kagi.
Also, how would a search engine for recipes work? How does THAT search engine find when a new recipe site is created? It would be to scrape the whole internet just to find all the recipe sites….
- it could work like the Kagi smallweb. people submit sites and you can’t submit your own until you submit (and have accepted) enough of others
- I’m also envisioning a parallel world where the big tech monopolies next existed. Maybe there could be crawler/indexer companies whose product was the stream of new content. Then you as a specialist search engine could consume the stream to build your own custom index and weights
Everything old is new again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaCrawler
Of course, back then they had thousands of websites to categorize not billions.
What made this easy for me is that Google is also no longer Google. Ever since it started basically ignoring my actual search query, I stopped using it. I used to be very good at using Google, too.
DuckDuckGo is quite bad at times, yes. But then, so is Google. If I need to find something I cannot put into search terms, LLMs are helpful. From my trial experience I would say Kagi is also a capable search machine, for some niches.
Kagi, however, has been a different experience for me. I haven’t felt the need to go to Google at all. If I can’t find it with Kagi, I’m confident I won’t find it with Google either. There have also been several times where I was on an outage call with a double dozen people all looking for answers to some issue. Everyone was coming up empty with Google, and I was able to find something that solved the issue pretty quickly with Kagi.
https://help.kagi.com/kagi/search-details/search-sources.htm...
TLDR Kagi is what Google would have been if they had kept improving instead of transitioning to enshitifying ~10yrs ago.
ChatGPT is the only general-purpose search engine that seems to have any chance of producing a link that is both new to me and useful. Of course, I try not to use it too much, people say it’s bad for the planet or whatever.
Search is hard.
Breaking up with Google is even harder, but definitely worth it. I still have a Gmail account that is used for spam/low effort email nonsense (I currently use hey.com for most email...a decision I am considering revisiting in the future since I've found a good way to host my own email with a provider that won't get auto rejected/blacklisted). That and the searches I mentioned above are my only use of Google Products at this point in time. Maps is gone. Photos is just a memory. I kicked Android out the door years ago. All my home integrations are via open source and/or Apple, and I'm finding ways to NOT have to rely on even Apple for that.
I never really used docs or other services. For storage I am currently using OneDrive and iCloud, however I am about to push all of the cloud storage stuff to Backblaze and Cloudflare.
While I almost never see ads, when I do see them, I notice that they are never targeted ads. Even some of the odd "coincidences" have gone away...say, verbally chatting with my spouse about how I am thinking about buying such and such a product...only to see an ad for it later on (and assuming it was a coincidence)...things like that have stopped.
I've also been avoiding Amazon as well, for the same reason.
Just my 2 cents.
what do you use? Gmaps doubles as a shop opening times checker and a multi transport journey planner for me
At least DDG lets you block results which Google does not.
Though I can't speak to their speed with Reddit, who is actively hostile to non-Google indexers.
Welcome to 90% of HN blog post submissions :))
I switched to Proton mail 2 years ago. Now I'm in this weird limbo where I want to go back but I can't because Proton's email search is so bad that I often default to Gmail where I still keep forwarding a copy of all my emails just for searching them later on. And this is even with the setting to search through the contents of the mail being turned on.
You might think "well, that's no biggie, I can manage that" but no. I didn't realise how important searching your email was until I was at a bank and they kept asking me some documents from years ago that were only inside my email.
The proton client on the phones are particularly bad and unusably slow in such emergency situations. Now I can't switch back to Google workspace because I started using a lot of the email aliases provided by Proton and it's going to be a clusterfuck once I unsubscribe.
Live and learn.
I'd imagine you could fix some of this problem if you could (massively) prioritise results from certain sites. If Wikipedia, Reddit and Stack Exchange, not to mention the various forums I find during my travels, were consistently pushed to the top, my experience would be a lot better, since then I could at least know with some confidence that the sites I'd expect to get something from don't have what I need.
This would probably necessitate having an account to save those settings, although they do already have a 'block site' feature, which does come in handy. It also necessitate them actually having indexed Reddit and all the various forums for me to be confident that an empty search result really is the result whatever I'm looking for not actually being out there.
I really should try Kagi, to see if its as great as sliced bread. Since if Kagi does search as well as the Google of old, and I can adjust its searches to prioritise results from known good (to me) sites, then that probably is worth paying for; it's just a shame that it's necessary to begin with, since Google already did that for free back in the day.
As I was saying in another thread Kagi is what Google would have been if they had kept improving instead of transitioning to enshitifying ~10yrs ago. If I had to pick I’d keep it over Netflix.
Non-US search engines are great for LOTS of censored content, including DMCA and pirated.
I dont think most here realizes just how censored our internet really is.
Its like how theres no unbiased news. But you can news from multiple sources, and piece together the bias and see through to the underlying facts.
Same with search engines. You can search on multiple places in opposition to the local propaganda, and get to a better ground truth.
This is the whole point of using DDG for me. For at least the past 5 years now I don't want anything from reddit in my results because it's full of liars and bots. The content from there or quora is often worse than even the blogspam.
That, and they seem to havr focussed more on localized results, which makes searches related to software development worse. This is also a problem with Google's search engine, but it's much harder to work around on Google.
I'm not sure if this is true anymore but years ago I heard from some business owners in my area that Google would call them to keep business information up to date. I imagine there's some form of automation these days (robocalls maybe?) but if that is the case it's kind of funny to think they are superior because they still do some stuff somewhat manually.
This would probably be a good business idea for Kagi to implement, if they are confident they would win.
I don't know if it's what kind of information I'm searching for or something else but adding a !g has never helped for me. If ddg results is shit google has also been shit but with loads of ads. I barely bother trying anymore.
I've had DuckDuckGo as my primary search engine for years and I couldn't disagree with this more. DuckDuckGo is fine for quickly getting to well known sites where I can't remember the URL, but it's objectively worse for trying to find everything from Reddit threads to Recipes. Their depth of indexing sites like Reddit feels dramatically worse lately and recipe search will predictably give me the same list of SEO spam blogs regardless of what I type in.
DuckDuckGo also seems to be doing the YouTube search thing that everyone hates where after the first several results it just starts throwing semi-related things at you instead.
I still add "!g" to my DuckDuckGo queries when I don't have time to mess around or if the first page of results is obvious SEO spam.
The other main point in this blog post isn't really about Google at all, it's just what happened when the author set up a a new e-mail address and didn't sign up for a lot of sites with it:
> Leaving Gmail also gave me the opportunity to start implementing better digital hygiene. I no longer give my primary email to fly-by-night sites, and I'm deliberate with what things I'm signing up for.
I thought there was going to be some substance to this post but it reads like someone congratulating themselves for a choice they made and then trying to backwards justify it.