It’s not about the one person, it’s about that person representing tens/hundreds/thousands of customers. This feedback is a gift to a product manager that listens.

I legit feel like Apple should actually make a public statement like "we hear you, we're working on it!" because it is actually bad PR at this point.

Works better with an em-dash to make it feel more like today's default ChatGPT style.

Perhaps it's just a natural case of convergent evolution when the fitness function is bullshit at scale.

That's just how software works. People also care that the windows taskbar just kills itself sometimes. But they feel powerless, stupid even, so they just work around it every day forever and never say anything.

During my last weeks on the iPhone, I reached out to various Apple discussion spaces on the web for help with some problems I was having.

I was met not with assistance, but ridicule. The majority of the people "helping" were saying some variation of "you're holding it wrong" or "I personally don't have that problem" (which is such a funny quirk of the Apple fandom - I didn't ask if you are having that problem, I'm asking for help achieving a specific outcome).

You can even see examples of this sort of behavior in that post about the window resize handles for the latest version of macOS. There were Apple fans saying some variation of it's not an actual problem, that they don't have that problem, that they don't use the window resize handles anyway, or that the post was an exaggeration. Turns out it was an actual problem that Apple addressed with a bug fix. Of course, Apple fans, being shameless, will jump to reframing the discussion from "Apple can do no wrong" to "See, Apple listens! You know who doesn't listen? Microsoft!!" I get it, not a monolith, but recognizing Apple fans aren't a monolith doesn't make them less off-putting.

The final nail in the coffin for me for the ecosystem was getting called a child for *checks notes* making the adult decision to move to Android to have a phone that did the things I needed (with much fewer annoying, uncritical fans and a lot more people who genuinely want to help).

So, yes, there is a danger in letting the fandom do all the work and laughing off "threats" of user exoduses. The conduct of Apple fans coupled with Apple's ignorance to regular users' feedback soured me to the ecosystem. It would take a lot to bring me back. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Sure, but this is a duopoly and it's not as if the competition is perfect. A lot of issues like this simply don't matter because of that. The response that goes through the PM's head is likely to be along the lines of, "What you gonna do, switch to Android? Ha!"

> This is the same reason your toothpaste has a phone number on the back - that one random person who cares deeply calls the number and provides invaluable feedback on the product.

You'll notice that tech companies go out of their way to avoid offering that option.

and i also never give feedback. there's probably hundreds of millions of iOS users out there who agree with me. so maybe don't change the behaviour just because this guy is mad?

Uh...

We're talking about iPhone here. You can read complains about iPhone online all the time. When you have more than a billion of users, lack of feedback is the least problem you concern.

The recent kerfluffle has been all the Liquid Glass stuff, I hear lots of people in my offline circle who aren’t reading every phone UI review who are trying various schemes to avoid or mitigate this update. It’s pretty bad! (The keyboard sucking is water under the bridge at this point, I think).

Kind of a big deal that something you'll likely use every time you pick up your device has been broken now for going on years, with no real movement on the issue.

If this phone dies before they right the ship, I'll be looking around for the first time in almost 20 years.

It can't go viral until you actually make a post for people to find and promote. Step one has now been completed. Step two is gaining traction.

This is one of the emptiest threats I’ve ever seen. This is about as effective as having a madman inside your house destroying your property with a baseball bat and saying “if you don’t stop smashing my stuff in the next 72 hours, I’ll consider writing mean things about you in my diary”.

No need to get specific. Write a blog post about how the keyboard is broken and say you’re leaving for another platform because of it. It’s not like Apple is going to check when you did it or for how long (or care). The theatrics are unnecessary and laughable, they undermine the whole message. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone inside Apple is sharing this with their colleagues and laughing.

I'm pretty sure the author realized that Tim Apple isn't shaking in his boots, looking at the numbers going down. That's not the point, the point is that it's funny and interesting and thus getting attention.

Absolute nonsense. Complaints about Apple’s declining software quality get a lot of traction on HN. Here’s another example from today:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46997008

And lookie here, what was submitted within one hour of that post?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46996575

This exact same submission! Which didn’t get any traction then. The traction this is getting has little to do with the quality (or lack thereof) of the post, it’s only popular because it’s another thread where we can air our grievances.

Anyway, why are you so upset about this? Why are you calling my comment "nonsense" and obsessing over this counter? It's clearly having an effect on you, which was its purpose. Realistically, another post about Apple's borked keyboard should create zero emotional response, yet here we are.

> Realistically, another post about Apple's borked keyboard should create zero emotional response

Of course that is not true. That is trivial to disprove.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46232528

That's the point of the countdown. When you write that "this is one of the emptiest threats I’ve ever seen", you are completely missing the point of the threat. Everybody knows it's empty. The writer knows it's empty. But it makes the blog post fun and interesting. That's the actual point.

Do you really think the writer thought that Apple would care about one lost iPhone sale?

And where’s your proof? I’ve given you links to support my arguments. You, on the other hand, are very adamant about something you’ve shown zero proof of.

> That's the point of the countdown.

You are really obsessing over that countdown, which was a single part of an argument with multiple examples. I don’t even think it’s close to being the weakest part of the threat, but you’re really latching on to it, for some reason.

> The writer knows it's empty. But it makes the blog post fun and interesting. That's the actual point.

You sure seem to like making assertive assumptions about the goals and opinions of strangers.

> Do you really think the writer thought that Apple would care about one lost iPhone sale?

What I really think is this was one of the most uninteresting and unproductive conversations I’ve ever had on this website.

That’s not what I said. Upvoting one post has nothing to do with upvoting the other. They’re two wholly separate posts, the one thing they have in common is (rightfully) criticising Apple for declining software quality. The point is that this submission isn’t special, as the person I replied to suggested. These types of posts are a dime a dozen (which I approve of, I think Apple should be getting criticised for what they do wrong) and they get traction on HN all the time.

I upvoted this submission too, it’s not wrong. But I agree with the comment up the chain that it makes its point as a pretty weak threat, and that doing so undermines the message.

The post you're replying to is hardly being aggressive.

At this point, I assume 90% of complaints about the apple keyboard are either tongue in cheek, explicitly humorous, a detailed, qualitative study with new information, or written by someone who is very new to apple, the internet, and technology in general.

I don't see how else anybody could seriously think 'The apple keyboard is bad, and the world needs to know about it! I'll make my opinion known, and surely that will solve the issue', let alone following it with 'no more Mr Nice Guy: I'm going to threaten Apple, the company, with consequences that will force them to act. It's high time somebody held these mega-corps to account and I'm willing to put myself on the line!'

Like, even if the article was written by the United Nations or the EU, there are very few actual threats they could include that might realistically spur apple to finally sort out the keyboard.

'If Apple don't sort it out, I'm going to fine them 75% of their revenue,' might be logical but seems a little deluded: terrorism or personal violence would be... unadvisable... and 'I'll switch to android' is also comically unthreatening, while also being hugely overplayed and almost always played straight, empty, and uninspired.

Everyone knows the keyboard sucks. Everyone knows that's not going to stop people buying iOS devices. It's the equivalent of 'fast food isn't nutritious but companies pretend it is' - in the year of our lord 2026, a multi paragraph article to that effect can probably be assumed to be numerous, new, surprising, ironic, or insanely naive.

The fact that a realistic, honest assessment of one's probable future purchasing decisions reads as a joke is maybe a little dark, but hey. It's a dark world, and it won't be lightened by yet another 'I'm totally gonna boycott if they don't stop!'

Yes, this blog post is meant to be whimsical and tongue-in-cheek because the post takes itself too seriously by pretending like one user leaving to another platform (for 2 years GASP!!) with a big scary countdown timer is a credible threat to a multi-trillion dollar company. The real part of the post is the request and complaining about the bug.

Excuse me!

As an autistic/ADHD[1], I can assure you that we do get sarcasm, and it's not autism that hinders that ability. In fact, this very post is peak autistic humor. (Deadpan comedy is trademark autism[2]).

>accompanied by an arrogant need to weigh in aggressively

Ding-ding, that's the winner! A necessary and sufficient condition for comments of that sort to appear.

Not exclusive to people on the spectrum either, mind you.

[1] https://romankogan.net/adhd

[2] https://autisticamber.substack.com/p/deadpan-literal-and-loy...

I do wish I could get a “security patches only” update channel, though. Their declining software competency is visible and annoying.

> The threat doesnt even carry the weight losing a user for a 2 year blip

Agreed, but it may be different if there would be more people feeling in a similar way.

> If meant to be whimsical sure nailed it.

It's a bit strange though because there are many things one can critisize Apple for. My main gripe is still Steve Jobs underpaying developers via illegal agreements. Yet people praise him as if he would have been a god. I am not saying he had bad ideas or was a bad designer per se, but some people never even mention criminal activities for their heroes. The court case was mega-clear; that is undeniable. If he would still be alive I'd love to hear what people would say now.

I'm blown away by Apple building their own stores in competition with the franchisees who carried them those lean years.

It was never about loosing one single customer, it's about getting a bad reputation and loosing many more undecided potential customers.

Little people can’t get the attention of large organizations without literally setting themselves on fire. Voting with your feet isn’t going to affect a trillion dollar company at all. Unless maybe you’re Dame Judy Dench.

Also some of these people would have voted for Reagan so... you know. A person is smart, people are stupid.

I mean, I'd agree with her. But it's hardly Joanna Lumley championing the gurkhas, when she's been saying for years that she can no longer recognise even loved ones standing right in front of her. Apple could do a lot better, but I'm not sure they could improve the keyboard that much.

I have a similar countdown of my own but is less specific. I’m on iPhone 15 (coming from android) and I know for certain that the next time I’m on the market for a new phone it won’t be an iPhone. I also don’t need a new phone, but the intrusive thoughts to buy a new one are always caused by the faulty keyboard